Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[libgirl2]

8 hours ago, Heathen said:

I suspect Josh got his own room more to protect the other kids than to reward him in any way. I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Bob and Mullet were afraid he'd harm his brothers (or at least lead them astray). 

Either way, he had his own space while his siblings were in fundie dormitories. At the time (16 Kids and Moving In), I thought it was because Josh was the Golden Penis. Now I think it was for the other kids' safety. 

That is a good possibility. 

[Absolom]

8 hours ago, Heathen said:

Either way, he had his own space while his siblings were in fundie dormitories. At the time (16 Kids and Moving In), I thought it was because Josh was the Golden Penis. Now I think it was for the other kids' safety. 

Josh didn't have his own bedroom.  The "media room" was what would have been the closet for the boys' room.  There is a photo of it above.  It had room for a long table and that was about all for furniture and also had windows.

[Minivanessa]

19 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't mean to appear as a JB&M sympathizer, I just don't think its that black and white. I agree they screwed up, but I wouldn't say their initial response was cavalier. 

I can't find the stats I found before, but sibling abuse numbers are both under reported and higher than anyone would like to believe.

Here's another article:

https://www.verywellmind.com/facts-about-sibling-sexual-abuse-2610456

I was thinking about this the other day. I agree, their initial response wasn't to blow it all off. I read about this in the autobiography of Marilyn Van Derbur Atler, an incest survivor [not by a sibling, btw] who went public in 1991 and has worked ever since as an advocate for sexual assault survivors. She's bright, energetic, and dedicated, and has been recognized as very well-informed. (And she's still alive and kicking it in her mid-80's) She identified sibling abuse (and also abuse of young children by non-sib adolescents) as an underreported problem. I can't find it now, but I watched a YT video of an interview or speech in which she made the comment that knowing what she now knows, she doubts that teenagers should babysit younger kids. 

This is difficult stuff for non-cult families to handle, but when Josh did it again, the Duggs doubled down on the Gospel According to Bill Gothard. Which was useless in changing anything of course. 

What sticks in my craw is the victim-blaming that's enshrined in the ATI/IBLP doctrines. I didn't watch 19K&C/Counting On avidly, to say the least. But one scene I saw remains in my memory. After one of the weddings, a bunch of little kids were running around playing outdoors while adults sat nearby chatting. Josie was a tiny tot, happily running around - until Michelle saw her and called her right over. Josie was wearing some kind of cardigan or jacket over a sleeveless top or dress. As she'd run around one side of the thing had slipped down, so that one of her shoulders was exposed. I can't quite describe Michelle's face as she quickly pulled the garment back into place to hide that tiny shoulder, but it was serious. IMO Michelle seemed upset AF that her tiny child's jacket had slipped off a shoulder while she was playing outdoors. Like it was some serious sh*t. 

Of course, later we found out all about that. 

[ChristmasCandy]

19 hours ago, scriggle said:

Does FF accrue good time credit while in the SHU? It seems like he shouldn't since it's punishment. 

No.

[madpsych78]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:01 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

They may have not wanted him to "do more," but I think they took a rather cavalier attitude about it. They sent him to a work camp, not therapy. And they had the underlying belief that this happened in "most families." Remember Jill trotting out the Gothard stats in the Megyn Kelly interview? Wasn't it 2/3 families? It was something completely insane and off base. Yet that's what they believed to be true. 

It may very well be 2/3rds of families in their world. Which provides supporting evidence that the fundie way is severely flawed.

[Salacious Kitty]

21 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

It may very well be 2/3rds of families in their world. Which provides supporting evidence that the fundie way is severely flawed.

How would they even know if this form of sexual abuse is under reported. Would these perfect, holy Gothardites admit it? If they send their sons to the old work camps, did they say why he was there, or was it a blanket admission of sin? 

I think that statistic, much like everything else Gothard wrote, was pulled out of his ass. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[Zella]

6 hours ago, Jeeves said:

This is difficult stuff for non-cult families to handle, but when Josh did it again, the Duggs doubled down on the Gospel According to Bill Gothard. Which was useless in changing anything of course. 

This is the part that really gets me with them. I can't even imagine how painful it would be for a parent to have one sibling attacking others. But he continued to do it and he continued to be more brazen about it and his victims got younger and younger. Their solutions were clearly not working, and even years later, the impression they give is that it was no big deal really. 

[Salacious Kitty]

20 minutes ago, Zella said:

This is the part that really gets me with them. I can't even imagine how painful it would be for a parent to have one sibling attacking others. But he continued to do it and he continued to be more brazen about it and his victims got younger and younger. Their solutions were clearly not working, and even years later, the impression they give is that it was no big deal really. 

That's why I called Boobchelle's handling of the situation cavalier. There was so much more that they could have done to de-escalate the situation. But as was noted above, they doubled down on the Gothard garbage and helped create the monster we hate today.

[GeeGolly]

The way I imagine what went down was each time Josh was caught/confessed JB&M thought it would be the last time and eventually it was the last time. It seems as if they increased the severity of FF's punishments and did more to secure the sisters' safety as time went on. Hindsight is 20/20, I'm sure they had no idea Josh was going to keep doing it.

[LilJen]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:50 PM, GeeGolly said:

The way I imagine what went down was each time Josh was caught/confessed JB&M thought it would be the last time and eventually it was the last time. It seems as if they increased the severity of FF's punishments and did more to secure the sisters' safety as time went on. Hindsight is 20/20, I'm sure they had no idea Josh was going to keep doing it.

When it happens over the course of SEVERAL YEARS, you get HELP.

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, LilJen said:

When it happens over the course of SEVERAL YEARS, you get HELP.

One could argue you get help after the first time, or the second. But anyway, I wasn't aware this went on for several years. It seems to me there would have been a lot more incidents and more victims if it was going on that long.

[AstridM]

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

One could argue you get help after the first time, or the second. But anyway, I wasn't aware this went on for several years. It seems to me there would have been a lot more incidents and more victims if it was going on that long.

There was probably a lot that went on that we still don’t know about. 

[SMama]

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

One could argue you get help after the first time, or the second. But anyway, I wasn't aware this went on for several years. It seems to me there would have been a lot more incidents and more victims if it was going on that long.

Well, we know of a non relative FF sexually assaulted. It is possible that there are more. Given how the victims are blamed in their circles I can see victims not coming forward. The girls ended up locked in their dormitory at night when FF should have been the one locked up.

[ChristmasCandy]

23 minutes ago, AstridM said:

There was probably a lot that went on that we still don’t know about. 

We will never ever get to know the whole story.

[farmgal4]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:53 AM, AstridM said:

And not just that - they actually gave young teen Josh his own private “media room” in the TTH complete with computer and a closed door. And a view of his siblings from above. 😳

Michelle and Jim Bob should be in prison too, IMO.

[crazycatlady58]

11 hours ago, SMama said:

Well, we know of a non relative FF sexually assaulted. It is possible that there are more. Given how the victims are blamed in their circles I can see victims not coming forward. The girls ended up locked in their dormitory at night when FF should have been the one locked up.

The lock was on their side of the door so they did have a bit of control, probably the only control they had in their lives. 

[GeeGolly]

Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson arguably have a hateful, wacko son. Marlon Brando, Jerry Remy raised kids who committed egregious crimes.

I think a lot of the judgment toward JB&M is based on disliking them. Like I said before, they could have done better, but they could have done much worse.

[sagittarius sue]

32 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson arguably have a hateful, wacko son. Marlon Brando, Jerry Remy raised kids who committed egregious crimes.

I think a lot of the judgment toward JB&M is based on disliking them. Like I said before, they could have done better, but they could have done much worse.

That's a good point.  A "black sheep" child has always been common.  It was no big deal when families had seven or more children, but when it's one out of two or three children in a family it's more troublesome.

[Iguessnot]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson arguably have a hateful, wacko son. Marlon Brando, Jerry Remy raised kids who committed egregious crimes.

I think a lot of the judgment toward JB&M is based on disliking them. Like I said before, they could have done better, but they could have done much worse.

Claims that none of this would happen if they weren't Duggars or that Josh would have been treated and cured if he wasn't a Duggar, are fantasy. Being non-Duggar in thinking and lifestyle, doesn't address CP at all.

[mythoughtis]

I can’t even begin to fathom the reasons for people like Josh - religious or not. However I do have an opinion about the Duggar’s  childhoods.  
They encouraged  these children  to think of each other as se*ual beings. They did  this by all their rules that they had even before Josh’s actions.   Have to look down whenever anyone isn’t covered from head to toe, can’t give each other ( mom to son, dad to daughter, etc), hugs, can’t move to music in the privacy of your own home, have to have an accountability partner to leave the house, must track Mom’s  cycle and on and on.  Males of any age can’t be trusted to keep their hands to themselves, females are wrong for almost any action that calls attention to them.  
Would Josh still be Josh? Maybe - who Knows? 
 

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I can’t even begin to fathom the reasons for people like Josh - religious or not. However I do have an opinion about the Duggar’s  childhoods.  
They encouraged  these children  to think of each other as se*ual beings. They did  this by all their rules that they had even before Josh’s actions.   Have to look down whenever anyone isn’t covered from head to toe, can’t give each other ( mom to son, dad to daughter, etc), hugs, can’t move to music in the privacy of your own home, have to have an accountability partner to leave the house, must track Mom’s  cycle and on and on.  Males of any age can’t be trusted to keep their hands to themselves, females are wrong for almost any action that calls attention to them.  
Would Josh still be Josh? Maybe - who Knows? 
 

I think a lot of that was in response to what he did. 

[Dehumidifier]

Josh inherited it. JimBob has pervy tendencies in my opinion.  Remember when he was at the altar at the daughters' weddings? He really gawked at the first kiss. No wonder Jessa and Ben ran off for privacy. There were other things he did on the show that struck me as pervy too, but I can't remember the details now, except for the golf course humping incident.

[SMama]

4 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

Josh inherited it. JimBob has pervy tendencies in my opinion.  Remember when he was at the altar at the daughters' weddings? He really gawked at the first kiss. No wonder Jessa and Ben ran off for privacy. There were other things he did on the show that struck me as pervy too, but I can't remember the details now, except for the golf course humping incident.

He embarrassed Jill prior to walking her down the aisle saying up to know she and Derick were attached at the hip and now they would be attached… thankfully Jill was mortified and made him stop. I have no idea what he was going to say but even innocent Jill knew it would be horribly inappropriate.

[Dehumidifier]

5 minutes ago, SMama said:

He embarrassed Jill prior to walking her down the aisle saying up to know she and Derick were attached at the hip and now they would be attached… thankfully Jill was mortified and made him stop. I have no idea what he was going to say but even innocent Jill knew it would be horribly inappropriate.

And without being drunk!

[Future Cat Lady]

We will never know why just is the way he is. Was he born like that or was it soemething that developped because of his environment or experiences? That's another question that will never get answered.

However, the way sexuality is considered in these religions can't possibly be healthy. The Duggars may have put some rules because of what Josh did, but there was plenty of srcewed up stuff to begin with.

[Gemma Violet]

Here are tidbits from WOACB's latest video from her contact who has a family member in the same prison as Josh.  Just a reminder that these items are all ALLEGED and are not confirmed:  Josh will be out of the SHU (special housing unit) in early April.  Once released from the SHU, he can't have email, commissary, visits, or phone calls for six months.  The phone he was caught with belonged to another inmate and so now he owes money to that inmate.  Anna may have known about the phone.  He would use the phone to speak to Anna and to his attorney about the appeal.  He thinks he's a big deal.  Very arrogant.  He got fired from his job in the library for his arrogant attitude.  He doesn't follow rules.  Makes other inmates mad.  Josh has a lack of hygiene and is a messy slob.  This has led to disagreements with other inmates.  He speaks in a derogatory way about Anna to the other inmates.  He's condescending towards her.  He doesn't believe Anna will ever leave him because of her faith and because he's Josh Duggar.  She's been not sending as much money to him.  He's manipulating guys in the bible class to get money, and he had an argument with the head of the bible class, an older guy, to try to take over the class. WOACB's contact also says Josh allegedly has a love interest, a transgender inmate allegedly in for drug charges.  They met through church services.  She says some transgender females are in this facility who haven't yet gone through surgery and are therefore in a men's prison.  They were spending a lot of time together before he went into the SHU (starting in November and until he went into the SHU mid-January.)  He was caught in her building three times and she was caught in his building.  She tried to move to his building and was on a wait list.  It was at first approved and then it was found out she and Josh were getting too close and it was then denied.  No one has witnessed them be physical.  She has tried to get messages to Josh in the SHU.  Other inmates are concerned for her as they feel she is vulnerable. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[Future Cat Lady]

I don't believe a word this woman says. She's totally making stuff up.

[SMama]

Someone on Tik Tok shared a very close version of WOACB’s tale but did not provide a source, of course.

If there’s a grain of truth to this let it be that Anna was stupid enough to be complicit. Because she will be rightfully disqualified to supervise contact with her minor kids upon release.

Why would FF need a contraband cell phone to call his lawyer? That should be the easiest contact to make. 

[merylinkid]

The funniest part is he owes money to another inmate.  He expects daddy to still bail him out.

I also believe he tried to take over the Bible class.  He might not believe in god but he sure believes he is the special one who should be the authority.

[crazycatlady58]

I don't know about the rest but I doubt very much he is interested in a transgender women unless he feels he can abuse her. I would think he would be repulsed by her.

[Absolom]

I believe he had a cell phone and was sent to the SHU.  We know he had his release date extended.  I mostly believe about the loss of other privileges based on the release extension.  All the rest?  I think it could be prison gossip and active imagination on the part of her or her informant.  

[GeeGolly]

The only reason I think Josh would want access to a phone is if it had photos or videos on it. I can totally see that happening.

Now that Miss Balls feels she has some credibility with her Josh gossip I think she's running away with it. Views, views, views.

[Salacious Kitty]

48 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The only reason I think Josh would want access to a phone is if it had photos or videos on it. I can totally see that happening.

Now that Miss Balls feels she has some credibility with her Josh gossip I think she's running away with it. Views, views, views.

Her story has been reported elsewhere. Not sure who reported what first, though.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

The only reason I think Josh would want access to a phone is if it had photos or videos on it. I can totally see that happening.

Now that Miss Balls feels she has some credibility with her Josh gossip I think she's running away with it. Views, views, views.

Yeah I don't believe for a minute he was using a contraband phone just to talk to his attorney or his wife. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Zella

[lascuba]

The fact that it's WOACB almost makes me doubt the Josh even had a phone.

14 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I don't know about the rest but I doubt very much he is interested in a transgender women unless he feels he can abuse her. I would think he would be repulsed by her.

This was my initial thought, but (with the caveat that I don't actually believe anything that comes from WOACB without a hell of a lot of outside corroboration) I can see trans women being another escalation for Josh. Not that he's attracted per se, but, as people he considers deviant, he'd be curious about them. And yes, abuse would absolutely be a factor.

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The only reason I think Josh would want access to a phone is if it had photos or videos on it. I can totally see that happening.

Now that Miss Balls feels she has some credibility with her Josh gossip I think she's running away with it. Views, views, views.

Is it even likely that a lawyer would accept a client's call from an illegal phone? He'd know Josh was actively committing a crime...I'd imagine he'd balk at being implicated.

 

[Bethany]

16 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Other inmates are concerned for her as they feel she is vulnerable. 

I am sure there is an element of truth in whatever her source has been feeding her but this struck me as (a) unlikely or (b) self serving.  Trying to paint a picture of loving and caring inmates who are horrified by Josh's behavior.  Just not buying it.

[Absolom]

Here's a different take on the Josh situation and the possible transgender situation by another gossip source:

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2023/03/20/exclusive-josh-duggar-released-from-prison-shu-early-after-living-with-transgender-cellmate/

[Zella]

24 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

I am sure there is an element of truth in whatever her source has been feeding her but this struck me as (a) unlikely or (b) self serving.  Trying to paint a picture of loving and caring inmates who are horrified by Josh's behavior.  Just not buying it.

I didn't buy that either. Josh isn't the only remorseless predator at Seagoville. 

[Salacious Kitty]

7 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Here's a different take on the Josh situation and the possible transgender situation by another gossip source:

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2023/03/20/exclusive-josh-duggar-released-from-prison-shu-early-after-living-with-transgender-cellmate/

Interesting. WOACB said he would be in the SHU until early April. I still wonder who reported first. 

[BetyBee]

16 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Here's a different take on the Josh situation and the possible transgender situation by another gossip source:

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2023/03/20/exclusive-josh-duggar-released-from-prison-shu-early-after-living-with-transgender-cellmate/

I love how they inserted a pic of Josh in a birthday hat after stating that he spent his 35th birthday with "a downright crazy and nasty" (their words) transgender person! Made me lol. 

[Iguessnot]

11 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Her story has been reported elsewhere. Not sure who reported what first, though.

Has there been ANY outside collaboration of this issue? A week or so ago when I saw the news of him being in solitary confinement posted on some other site (I can't remember which one), it listed Balls as a source, so I didn't pay attention.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Iguessnot said:

Has there been ANY outside collaboration of this issue? A week or so ago when I saw the news of him being in solitary confinement posted on some other site (I can't remember which one), it listed Balls as a source, so I didn't pay attention.

The only thing I know of is the FF's release date was pushed out.

[Zella]

Yeah as of right now, I think it's pretty clear he got in trouble, and I don't doubt it was for possession of a phone. The rest of the details I am very skeptical of. Though every time in the past I've really lambasted WOACB on here as an unreliable source when she had a juicy scoop, she ended up being right. LOLOL Still, I don't trust her or consider her a reliable source. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Zella

[Albanyguy]

Hmmm. He's not allowed to talk to Anna on the phone or purchase snacks from the commissary. Wonder which one will upset him the most.

[babyhouseman]

I don't believe the transgender thing, but I love how it would blow the Duggars' minds especially Boob and Mechelle.

[Salacious Kitty]

Yeah, the transgender inmate story is a bit of embellishment IMO. 

[Cattoy]

2 hours ago, babyhouseman said:

I don't believe the transgender thing, but I love how it would blow the Duggars' minds especially Boob and Mechelle.

I can honestly believe Duggar is pissing off the other inmates. I can also honestly believe an inmate(s) feeding the transgender story in the hopes of embarrassing him, or even hoping his money train would dry up if his family believed it.

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Cattoy said:

I can honestly believe Duggar is pissing off the other inmates. I can also honestly believe an inmate(s) feeding the transgender story in the hopes of embarrassing him, or even hoping his money train would dry up if his family believed it.

Oh, I didn't think about resentful inmates planting a story! Diabolical! ☠️

[Cattoy]

28 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Oh, I didn't think about resentful inmates planting a story! Diabolical! ☠️

Considering your avatar, I'm surprised you didn't think of it. 😺

[GeeGolly]

17 minutes ago, Cattoy said:

Considering your avatar, I'm surprised you didn't think of it. 😺

Considering your name, you best watch out. 😸🙀😼🤣