Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

45 minutes ago, SMama said:

Did Michelle say leave and cleave in that episode? I thought she said that on the wedding episode, and was a blubbering mess on the FF leaving episode.

If I recall correctly, it was in the episode when Josh and Anna left for the DC area. Michelle was fine during that episode, Josh was the one who was crying.

[Salacious Kitty]

22 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If I recall correctly, it was in the episode when Josh and Anna left for the DC area. Michelle was fine during that episode, Josh was the one who was crying.

No, "Leave and cleave, baby!" came from the wedding episode. 

[GeeGolly]

Whether leave and cleave, baby was the wedding or the move, it was long before Scandal #1 was in the news and prior to Scandals 2 & 3 happening. Michelle was over Josh for years.

[Salacious Kitty]

It originated in 2008. So Meech thought he was self sufficient when he married.

https://tvshowsace.com/2022/05/31/michelle-duggar-talks-big-about-josh-but-what-really-happened/

[AstridM]

15 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

It originated in 2008. So Meech thought he was self sufficient when he married.

https://tvshowsace.com/2022/05/31/michelle-duggar-talks-big-about-josh-but-what-really-happened/

Sure, he was “self sufficient” after daddy handed him a house and a job. 

[madpsych78]

Regardless of one's position on what BoobChelle did with Josh, I think we can all agree that they did not do jack squat in terms of helping their daughters.

[Quilt Fairy]

9 hours ago, AstridM said:

a house and a job

Blurry-eyed me read that as "hand job".

[andromeda331]

I think he's still the favored son at least to JB and Michelle. From the molestations to the trials they have done everything to clean up his messes and protect him from the consequences of his own actions. Up to the trial his only "punishments" was a few months working on a Hobby Lobby and Jesus jail. Who knows how much money they spent on his defense and JB's testimony makes me thing nnothing has changed. They gave him a wife, a house and a job. They found him a nice place to stay when he wasn't allowed to stay at the house. They either don't believe the charges or don't care. Nothing has changed.

[Bethany]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They either don't believe the charges or don't care. Nothing has changed.

I think they actually do believe the charges but there is no way they are going to admit it publicly.  Not only does that mean they've accepted they raised a monster but that maybe, just maybe, they weren't the perfect parents.  They've made a very nice living off of this for years.  Up to the time Josh first got arrested  they were still hot on the lecture tour.  Are the still doing this, I wonder?

Anyway I don't read too much into them paying for his defense.  They're his parents.  

[Jeeves]

48 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

I think they actually do believe the charges but there is no way they are going to admit it publicly.

I agree. I also think that well after the molestations were revealed to them, Josh remained their adored and special Crown Prince.

A couple of years ago I listened to the YT podcasts of a guy named Justin who's a bit younger than Josh and knew the Duggars from church when he was a kid. He provided details as he observed them, of things in the Duggar home and happenings in church. A couple of points:

• Josh was so favored that although the rest of the kids were homeschooled using computers put together from cannibalized parts (JB got a free truckload of old computers a community college was discarding) - Josh had his very own personal new iMac.
• When Josh was found to have viewed (adult) porn on a computer during the Jim Holt campaign, he was punished by the church elders (the infamous summer cleaning out a farm pond). Justin remembered how JB and the church elders were convinced that Josh had been given a very special role to be a great Christian leader and they were busting their butts to save him from the Satanic attack that had led him astray. (And of course JB was bringing Josh home from the farm pond exile whenever a TLC crew was filming, and sending him back after the crew left town.)

I think that as time went by, JB on some level must have realized that Josh wasn't the bright and shining hope that JB had thought, but kept that to himself. His own ego is involved in all that history, after all. He's a little domestic tinpot tyrant, as he showed the world by his sh*tty behavior on the witness stand in federal court. A legend in his own mind, a leader in his own home. 

[madpsych78]

6 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

A couple of years ago I listened to the YT podcasts of a guy named Justin who's a bit younger than Josh and knew the Duggars from church when he was a kid. He provided details as he observed them, of things in the Duggar home and happenings in church. A couple of points:

• Josh was so favored that although the rest of the kids were homeschooled using computers put together from cannibalized parts (JB got a free truckload of old computers a community college was discarding) - Josh had his very own personal new iMac.
• When Josh was found to have viewed (adult) porn on a computer during the Jim Holt campaign, he was punished by the church elders (the infamous summer cleaning out a farm pond). Justin remembered how JB and the church elders were convinced that Josh had been given a very special role to be a great Christian leader and they were busting their butts to save him from the Satanic attack that had led him astray. (And of course JB was bringing Josh home from the farm pond exile whenever a TLC crew was filming, and sending him back after the crew left town.)

I think that as time went by, JB on some level must have realized that Josh wasn't the bright and shining hope that JB had thought, but kept that to himself. His own ego is involved in all that history, after all. He's a little domestic tinpot tyrant, as he showed the world by his sh*tty behavior on the witness stand in federal court. A legend in his own mind, a leader in his own home. 

I'm getting Anakin Skywalker vibes with this description by Justin. 

[mynextmistake]

I have long thought that Josh is the only child Michelle truly loves. She had a couple of years with Josh while her life was still relatively normal. Then they made the decision to stop using birth control and it was a downward slide into kid after kid after kid and homemade prairie frumpers and one bathroom for ten people and living off love offerings, and each kid became less of a blessing and more of a burden until she didn’t even bother going through the motions anymore. I don’t think she ever truly bonded with any of the other children. I don’t think she hates them, but I think she only feels the kind of vague affection you feel for someone you are related to but don’t really know. Because, fundamentally, she doesn’t know any of them. It takes effort to get to know someone, and she wasn’t willing to do the work.

I also think that while they do believe the patriarchal crap they espouse, and both JB and Michelle would swear up and down that he’s the headship of the family, she directs a lot more of their actions than either of them would admit. She loved Josh, so Josh always came first. I think it’s as simple as that.

[BetyBee]

I recently watched the episode where Anna gave birth to Mackynzie (however you spell that!). It was a last minute decision to birth at home. Anna was suffering (dressed) in the empty bathtub when Michelle and "midwife" Jill came in. Michelle kissed JOSH and then checked on Anna. I also remember how moved she was the "last time" she shaved the back of Josh's neck before their wedding. She stated sadly that it would be Anna's job now. Yes, she bonded with her firstborn and they pinned all their hopes on him. However, I don't know what she's feeling today. Did she never attend his trial because she loves him so much? Or was it because she's so disappointed in him that she needs distance. She doesn't visit him in prison, as far as we know. She does visit all of her older daughters. I think she's devastated by the "man" he's become. Since everything that goes wrong is the woman's fault, according to Gothard, she is likely blaming herself (and Anna) for Joshua's sins.

[madpsych78]

9 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I recently watched the episode where Anna gave birth to Mackynzie (however you spell that!). It was a last minute decision to birth at home. Anna was suffering (dressed) in the empty bathtub when Michelle and "midwife" Jill came in. Michelle kissed JOSH and then checked on Anna. I also remember how moved she was the "last time" she shaved the back of Josh's neck before their wedding. She stated sadly that it would be Anna's job now. Yes, she bonded with her firstborn and they pinned all their hopes on him. However, I don't know what she's feeling today. Did she never attend his trial because she loves him so much? Or was it because she's so disappointed in him that she needs distance. She doesn't visit him in prison, as far as we know. She does visit all of her older daughters. I think she's devastated by the "man" he's become. Since everything that goes wrong is the woman's fault, according to Gothard, she is likely blaming herself (and Anna) for Joshua's sins.

I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle has changed since this whole Josh business came about. How she has changed is anyone's guess.

[oliviabenson]

I came across a female name: Joshan! Would have been perfect to use on one of their daughters!

Joshan Duggar 

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

I came across a female name: Joshan! Would have been perfect to use on one of their daughters!

Joshan Duggar 

I'm glad they didn't go that route. Imagine being that sister now. Yikes.

[Absolom]

Katie Joy (Without a Crystal Ball) claims Josh Duggar had an illegal FB page and she got it shut down.

 

[farmgal4]

20 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Katie Joy (Without a Crystal Ball) claims Josh Duggar had an illegal FB page and she got it shut down.

 

She’s insane too.

[SMama]

29 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Katie Joy (Without a Crystal Ball) claims Josh Duggar had an illegal FB page and she got it shut down.

 

And she didn’t bother to get a screenshot before doing her civic duty? 🙄He is a Duggar, but he can’t be that dumb. Because if there’s any truth to this the FF is more messed up than any of us imagined. Especially after the recent cell phone fiasco.

[Jeeves]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

And she didn’t bother to get a screenshot before doing her civic duty? 🙄He is a Duggar, but he can’t be that dumb. Because if there’s any truth to this the FF is more messed up than any of us imagined. Especially after the recent cell phone fiasco.

She did get a screenshot. Not sure if it was from FB itself but showed a Josh-and-Anna social media account with links to FB among other sites. I think this was their original account. KJ claims in the video that during the FF's case, there was testimony that Josh set up and maintained all the Josh/Anna social media accounts.

I think it's just that nobody bothered to take Josh off those accounts after his conviction - not that he started some illegal account after being locked up. Per her video, KJ learned that FB prohibits convicted sex offenders from having FB accounts so she reported it per FB procedures and the account was removed. She practically sprained an arm patting herself on the back for that. As KJ pointed out, nothing prevents Anna from starting her *own* FB account, but it can't be a Josh-and-Anna account.

I learned all that from almost literally holding my nose to watch the relevant parts of KJ's video. I can't. stand. her. BTW she also yammered on and on about how Jana's been MIA on her social media account(s) since May 2022 She claims Jana's living in a tiny house on the TTH property and Anna and the M's have moved into the TTH. She said Jana's in the tiny house because her child endangerment case terms prohibit her living in the same house as the kid she endangered. I have no clue if KJ's delusional about that, would require independent source verification. I couldn't watch the whole video. As I said, I can't stand her. Urgh.

BTW, I'd be surprised if Anna starts her own FB account minus her At-Least-I-Have-A-Husband™, because that would be VERY un-fundie. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Jeeves
Words and spelling. They're a thing.

[GeeGolly]

I didn't watch the video...

I don't know what planet CBalls is from but Jana's endangerment charge would not prohibit her from living with children, never mind the one child in particular. If anything she might be prohibited from babysitting any kids under, say 3, but  I sincerely doubt there are any terms at all. She paid the fine and its over.

[oliviabenson]

Imagine if Anna got a dog named Joshy ! Or pushes Josh/Joshan for a first grandchild!

[Jeeves]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't watch the video...

I don't know what planet CBalls is from but Jana's endangerment charge would not prohibit her from living with children, never mind the one child in particular. If anything she might be prohibited from babysitting any kids under, say 3, but  I sincerely doubt there are any terms at all. She paid the fine and its over.

I agree. IIRC Jana got some sort of deferred prosecution (or whatever it's called there). She entered a guilty plea (to something, could have been a reduced charge or the original charge), paid a fine, and agreed essentially to stay out of trouble for I think 12 months. If she met those conditions, the plea would be vacated and the case dismissed at the end of that period. I can't believe the facts of that case would prohibit her from living with a kid especially in the TTH situation with all those people, including other adults, in the house.

[GeeGolly]

And we should all mail Cballs a gold star for turning in an FB page that has sat idle for 2+ years. Or maybe we should send her little plastic sheriff badges. ⭐👮🏽‍♀️

[quarks]

Yeah, it honestly wouldn't be at all surprising to learn that with everything else going on, the Facebook account - and exactly who had access to it - was just overlooked. I can't imagine that Facebook has been a priority for either Josh or Anna since the arrest - especially since they were almost certainly advised by attorneys to stay off social media as much as possible.

On a related note, I have to assume that nearly everyone in Anna's vicinity - attorneys, family members, any PR people, any random person at a local McDonald's - is still advising her to stay off Facebook and other major social media platforms, including Truth Social, for at least the next four to five years. I would say this even if this were Josh's first offense and she had the merest sliver of a chance of convincing anyone outside an extremely limited circle that Josh is in fact innocent. Since I don't think she does, I'd argue that she has more than enough problems as it is, and doesn't need to add social media harassment to them. And I doubt I'm the only person saying this.

Jana's not in the same situation, of course, but I can certainly understand if after the whole misdemeanor excitement, she looked at whatever her sisters are/aren't earning from social media and decided that the money isn't worth the hassle/harassment and she'd rather just live her life. 

[dariafan]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

And we should all mail Cballs a gold star for turning in an FB page that has sat idle for 2+ years. Or maybe we should send her little plastic sheriff badges. ⭐👮🏽‍♀️

Wait , those badges DONT make me an armchair sheriff ????

[YupItsMe]

I believe one of the boys, James maybe, mentioned that Jana does have one of those shed houses near the big house, but I could be mis-remembering.

[SMama]

6 hours ago, YupItsMe said:

I believe one of the boys, James maybe, mentioned that Jana does have one of those shed houses near the big house, but I could be mis-remembering.

I recall pictures of Jana and some of her siblings hanging out at that shed like place. It seemed to have a kitchen, but they didn’t show if there was a bedroom or bathroom. 

[GeeGolly]

43 minutes ago, SMama said:

I recall pictures of Jana and some of her siblings hanging out at that shed like place. It seemed to have a kitchen, but they didn’t show if there was a bedroom or bathroom. 

I remember the pic too. It seemed more of a she-shed than a tiny home.

[crazy8s]

Probably no duggars went to court with her so Jana certainly had opportunity to be like "oh the judge said I can't be in charge of caring for small children" or "can't be with the wandering child" etc and really played it up to get a different arrangement out of JB.

Jason, James, Jana and even Elijah have seemed to bail out of the big house since FF's arrest and rumors of Anna and the kids moving in started.

JB still has them under his thumb since they are all 2 seconds from the big house, but I don't think any of them wanted to share a dorm with children. Elijah, at age 28 or 29, certainly should never be sharing a room with minors.

 

 

[Quilt Fairy]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:25 AM, crazy8s said:

Elijah, at age 28 or 29, certainly should never be sharing a room with minors.

Wait, who the f*ck is Elijah?  This is the only Duggar thread I follow, so I'm not up to date.  

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Wait, who the f*ck is Elijah?  This is the only Duggar thread I follow, so I'm not up to date.  

He's a family friend. He's originally from Hawaii, but I don't know how he knows all the big fundie families, but he seems to kind of wander around at times. But it appears that his main base is in AR these days with BFF redneck frat boy James.

[crazy8s]

Elijah has been a registered voter using the TTH address since 2016. so he has been living with the Duggars a good long time now. He listed his job at one point as foreman at duggar construction. He never seemed to be pals with the older duggar boys. Mostly Jason and James. At 29 he is quite a bit older than those two.

In 2018 he was sued for owing $19,000 in credit card debt. he was ordered to pay $399 a month until it was paid off.

Elijah seems to be the male version of Laura. Always around and travels with the family. But he also travels a lot with a bunch of fundie girls like the Patton sisters and Trace Bates' ex Chaney. He travels to a ton of fundie weddings as well.

[GeeGolly]

Here's Laura during the first part of the trip. Do we know if Anna was with the Duggars, for the second part?

[SMama]

9 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He's a family friend. He's originally from Hawaii, but I don't know how he knows all the big fundie families, but he seems to kind of wander around at times. But it appears that his main base is in AR these days with BFF redneck frat boy James.

I’m surprised the sleuths here and Reddit haven’t found out about his background and how he became the Duggar’s permanent guest. 
 

57 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

In 2018 he was sued for owing $19,000 in credit card debt. he was ordered to pay $399 a month until it was paid off.

Elijah seems to be the male version of Laura. Always around and travels with the family. 

JB&M must have been aghast that someone so close to them had evil credit card debt.

The male version of Laura is the perfect description of Elijah. Interesting though that there are no (to my knowledge) insinuations about Elijah being involved with a male Duggar on the down low. 

[SMama]

On 4/12/2023 at 5:25 AM, crazy8s said:

Probably no duggars went to court with her so Jana certainly had opportunity to be like "oh the judge said I can't be in charge of caring for small children" or "can't be with the wandering child" etc and really played it up to get a different arrangement out of JB.

 

 

I seriously doubt Jana would lie, unlike Jessa who is such a bold face liar. JB&M beat any independent thought out of that girl. It also does not seem in her nature.

Even if no Duggars went to court with Jana she most likely had an attorney and that would squash any opportunity to misrepresent what was said in court. JB may have thrown his daughter under the bus after spending hundreds of thousands on the FF’s defense, but he would demand to know everything.

Jana openly spending time in her shed has a simple explanation. There is no longer a show to perform the they’re holier than thou shtick. That is why Jessa and Joy wear pants in public without those hideous skirts over them.

There is no longer a need to pretend that even the married kidults are in constant touch with the TTH. I remember the interview the family did before Joshgate I blew up. JB made it a point to say JD was not there because he was at work (😂😂), and Derick was at home recuperating from surgery. I recall thinking how silly it was, they are grown ass adults. There is no longer a need to pretend. And good for Jana if she is at least spending her days in her she shed, enjoying peace and quiet. The woman has run a household and raised a litter of kids for decades. 

[floridamom]

With Anna and her M7, I think the girls' dorm is full to capacity; so no room for Jana. I don't know why a married, grown  woman, like Anna needs to live at the TTH and sleep in the dorm. I think this is her arrangement. Her boys are stacked in the other dorm with their uncles and those other grown men who board there like Elijah(?). Such an unusual, unhealthy arrangement going on there. Does anyone know if Laura still lives there too? Also strange IMO.

[SMama]

9 minutes ago, floridamom said:

With Anna and her M7, I think the girls' dorm is full to capacity; so no room for Jana. I don't know why a married, grown  woman, like Anna needs to live at the TTH and sleep in the dorm. I think this is her arrangement. Her boys are stacked in the other dorm with their uncles and those other grown men who board there like Elijah(?). Such an unusual, unhealthy arrangement going on there. Does anyone know if Laura still lives there too? Also strange IMO.

It has been reported that Elijah moved out of the TTH awhile ago, and probably James. Jason sleeps in the tree house now. 

[Salacious Kitty]

9 minutes ago, SMama said:

It has been reported that Elijah moved out of the TTH awhile ago, and probably James. Jason sleeps in the tree house now. 

I'm pretty sure Elijah was found to be renting a place in Springdale. 

[SMama]

16 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I'm pretty sure Elijah was found to be renting a place in Springdale. 

Yes, and he reported his truck stolen from that location.

[crazy8s]

At this point I think Jackson and Tyler are are the only ones left in the dorm besides the m boys. James has shown in his little warehouse room with his weapons hanging on the wall.

[GeeGolly]

22 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

At this point I think Jackson and Tyler are are the only ones left in the dorm besides the m boys. James has shown in his little warehouse room with his weapons hanging on the wall.

Is he in Ben's old TTH place?

[Tdoc72]

13 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Here's Laura during the first part of the trip. Do we know if Anna was with the Duggars, for the second part?

I never saw any evidence that Anna went. They may have just taken the oldest Ms. I know Kenzie and I want to say…Michael?

[crazy8s]

18 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Is he in Ben's old TTH place?

I don't remember what Ben's old place looked like. James showed his room in a video.

[AstridM]

He is disturbed. 
 

 

[GeeGolly]

Yup that looks like the shed/warehouse Ben lived in during their courtship.

[louannems]

On 4/14/2023 at 6:19 AM, SMama said:

And good for Jana if she is at least spending her days in her she shed, enjoying peace and quiet

But Jana should not be spending her days like an elderly woman either.  She should be out working, going to college, and building a life for herself away from the family home.

[floridamom]

louannems, I don't know how to paste your post here but YES, I agree with you. Sadly, all of those things you listed are against their religion: no job, no education and no independence from your father. 

[greenturtle36]

On 4/10/2023 at 4:34 PM, Absolom said:

Katie Joy (Without a Crystal Ball) claims Josh Duggar had an illegal FB page and she got it shut down.

It was clickbait.  She found an old FB account that he probably didn't even have the password for anymore, and reported it to FB and they took it down.

It wasn't a "heroic" act; anybody could have done that.

[Natalie68]

On 4/15/2023 at 7:43 AM, AstridM said:

He is disturbed. 
 

 

He IS creepy!