Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[BetyBee]

I really don't think there's any way that Josh is happier in prison. Prison is horrible. Not that I have firsthand knowledge, but I do have secondhand knowledge and losing your freedom and privacy wouldn't be anyone's first choice. Not even Josh's. However, I think that when he does get out one day, he'll have a terrible time adjusting. I don't think he will want to go back to his old life, under JB's thumb. He will probably never be happy again. And he'll likely re-offend and wind up back inside. I don't see him doing any real work on himself or taking responsibility for the awful things he's done. He's a mess. 

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I really don't think there's any way that Josh is happier in prison. Prison is horrible. Not that I have firsthand knowledge, but I do have secondhand knowledge and losing your freedom and privacy wouldn't be anyone's first choice. Not even Josh's. However, I think that when he does get out one day, he'll have a terrible time adjusting. I don't think he will want to go back to his old life, under JB's thumb. He will probably never be happy again. And he'll likely re-offend and wind up back inside. I don't see him doing any real work on himself or taking responsibility for the awful things he's done. He's a mess. 

He can't do any real work on himself without taking responsibility for his actions. And he's vehemently denying everything. So no, no growth will happen here. 

[lookeyloo]

Sometimes later in prison life the epiphany happens. Time will tell

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Sometimes later in prison life the epiphany happens. Time will tell

I wonder what that would look like for the FF. It's a complete 180 from his current state. I don't know that he's capable of it, being the coddled Prince for his entire life. 

[GeeGolly]

I have had clients who have been incarcerated. No one ever learns to like shitting next to their bed and next to their inmate.

IMO, the FF is sick, epiphany or no epiphany, I don't believe he will ever be able to control himself.

Edited March 13, 2023 by GeeGolly

[AstridM]

7 hours ago, Teriacky said:

It’s gonna take a LONG time to knock the superior snottiness out of that idiot. 

Ditto for Anna. Their poor kids. 😢

[quarks]

I think he wants to get out of prison. Not because of any interest in having to live according to the family beliefs, but because:

1. This jail enforces a strict routine, something he also has no interest in.

2. He seems to be the sort of person who needs constant stimulation and is easily bored. This jail does offer some vocational training and the occasional holiday barbecue, but that's about it for the stimulation.

3. When he's not in solitary, he's expected to work - and not at a desk job or at a comparatively easy (physically) job selling used cars, but working for the prison or working to make military uniforms. Again, not something he's ever shown any real interest in.

4. Resentment of missing out on things that his family members are doing/enjoying - working as an actual attorney (supposedly his ambition at one point), becoming a New York Times bestselling author and getting to make a number of television appearances (definitely his ambition at one point), or popping over to Europe and wandering around Italy (probably not his ambition at any point, but, still, they got to go have fun while he was stuck in jail.) And that's just this year. 

I am not confident that any of this will lead to an epiphany or change while he's in prison, mind you. 

[Albanyguy]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

I am not confident that any of this will lead to an epiphany or change while he's in prison, mind you. 

It will most likely lead to increased bitterness, resentment and self-pity, especially since he’s probably convinced that he didn’t really do anything wrong and doesn’t deserve to be there.

[AstridM]

He probably is envious of all of those trips to McDonald’s his siblings took while in Italy. 

[Notabug]

Former British pop star and convicted pedophile, Gary Glitter (Rock 'n Roll, Part 2) was released from prison just a month ago after serving 8 years for sexually abusing 3 school girls.  He has already been sent back to prison for violating terms of his parole.  He tried to access the dark web on his cell phone.  He has numerous prior arrests including some for possession of child porn as well as having been expelled from Cambodia for assaulting a child there and was jailed in Viet Nam for 2 years after abusing 2 girls there.  Glitter first came to light as a pedophile in 1975 and is now 79 years old.

Just to remind everyone that these leopards do not change their spots and, no matter how long Josh spends in prison, he will very likely always be a danger to the public.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64946392

[libgirl2]

19 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Just to remind everyone that these leopards do not change their spots and, no matter how long Josh spends in prison, he will very likely always be a danger to the public.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64946392

No, I don't foresee any "change" in him when he gets out. People like him don't change. 

[SMama]

On 3/12/2023 at 8:21 AM, AstridM said:

He probably is envious of all of those trips to McDonald’s his siblings took while in Italy. 

If he knows about the family’s comings and goings. I don’t think any of his siblings will regale him with stories about their lives and travel. 
 

53 minutes ago, Notabug said:

 

Just to remind everyone that these leopards do not change their spots and, no matter how long Josh spends in prison, he will very likely always be a danger to the public.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64946392

He will do what has always worked for him, claim he’s a changed man, spent years reading scriptures, has repented, and he is saved and forgiven. JB and Michelle will eat it up, as usual, and there will be no safeguards for the minors around him. Let’s hope by then the kidults (Jill, Jinger, and Joy excluded, they have a clue) will have learned to protect their kids, and any minor around the FF.

[sagittarius sue]

4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

No, I don't foresee any "change" in him when he gets out. People like him don't change. 

He has eight more years of his sentence to serve, and he would then be 87.  Hopefully he'll die while in prison.

[libgirl2]

22 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

He has eight more years of his sentence to serve, and he would then be 87.  Hopefully he'll die while in prison.

For a second I thought you meant Josh and I was trying to figure out what I missed. Yea, I hope he does too. As I said, they don't change. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by libgirl2

[sagittarius sue]

16 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

For a second I thought you meant Josh and I was trying to figure out what I missed. Yea, I hope he does too. As I said, they don't change. 

I understand as I initially thought you were referring to the Jimmy Glitter character per the link you responded to.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

I understand as I initially thought you were referring to the Jimmy Glitter character per the link you responded to.

I think I was just referring to the whole lot of them, but mainly that Josh isn't going to change. Especially if he is going to go back to a wife who thinks he is innocent. 

[ChristmasCandy]

Of course Joshie is 💯% innocent because we all know that the Fundie Crown Prince would never do what the mean police accused him of doing 😂

[greenturtle36]

Well if you think about it, I've never seen him say he loves Anna.  Allegedly he said "I love you" when he was being hauled off to jail, but he was also scared shitless, and wanted to make a great impression in front of other people.  His body language, demeanor, facial expressions, etc. show that he really can't stand Anna.  so maybe being in prison is a great way to stay away from Anna and that could also be why he told her not to move to Texas.  Because that would make it a lot more convenient for her to visit him more regularly.

[Future Cat Lady]

I really don't think Josh prefers prison over being married to Anna. Nobody wants to be in prison.

I don't think he's really in love with Anna and has much consideration for her. I think she's there to serve his needs. Maybe he will have the guts to divorce her after his sentence, but I doubt it. Unless, he finds someone else, Anna and his parents will be all he has left.

[Salacious Kitty]

FF's release date has changed again. It's now listed as October 2032. I think it was August before? 

[Absolom]

He lost over 50 days.  Supposedly the reviewing officer was there and gave Josh his sentence for possessing the phone.  

He may also have lost commissary privileges, visits, property, phone calls, etc for a period of time and no doubt he'll have a period of time in the SHU.  Time he's already spent in the SHU doesn't count against any he's given for the phone.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by Absolom

[libgirl2]

Keep breaking the rules you arrogant and disgusting piece of crap...... 

[SMama]

13 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Keep breaking the rules you arrogant and disgusting piece of crap...... 

Good job with the FF, JB, Michelle, and Gothard, you ghouls. How about them characters traits from the IBLP? 😂

[mimionthebeach]

On 3/11/2023 at 4:33 PM, floridamom said:

Maybe Josh doesn't really want to get out....he would then have to live according to the family's beliefs which we all know he does not abide by. Maybe he's just not that in to Anna and isn't too bothered to be away from her. More freedom in prison for him. Just a few thoughts.

I've kind of thought this all along. As awful a prison must be, it's an escape from an untenable situation. And he won't have to have more kids. 

[all fall down]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

FF's release date has changed again. It's now listed as October 2032. I think it was August before? 

Yep, when I checked the other day it was August 22, 2032. I think the original release date was Aug 9, 2032. I'm now keeping a list so we can track when it changes. 

[Quilt Fairy]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:06 AM, SMama said:

JB and Michelle will eat it up, as usual, and there will be no safeguards for the minors around him.

Luckily the judge put some safeguards in place. 

[Jeeves]

13 minutes ago, all fall down said:

Yep, when I checked the other day it was August 22, 2032. I think the original release date was Aug 9, 2032. I'm now keeping a list so we can track when it changes. 

Thank you!

I think Josh does want to get out of prison. He may not care much about his wife, but his life on the outside was way better than what it is now. 

However, so far he hasn't managed to keep out of trouble and has lost good time. Maybe he'll learn from this experience and shape up from here on. OTOH he may really believe he'll win on appeal and will be released in another couple of years at most. Once reality sets in and (as I think is most likely) he loses the appeal, he could be headed for some kind of mental/emotional breakdown. I don't pretend to understand him, but IMO he's some kind of messed up. on some level, and that can't be good.

[Salacious Kitty]

Just now, Quilt Fairy said:

Luckily the judge put some safeguards in place. 

But would JB, Meech, or Anna report him? Unlikely. 

His siblings, OTOH, all bets are off. 

[Gemma Violet]

According to WOACB and as was mentioned above, Josh is still in the SHU (special housing unit). Just to recap, the SHU is for those who need either protection or discipline.  It's a very small cell by themselves, one phone call a month, 23 hours a day alone in the SHU, a shower twice a week, one phone call a month, no face-to-face visitors, limited commissary, eating meals in their cell, one hour of exercise per day (presumably alone), no participation in recreational games, loss of privileges such as movies, etc.  It's possible Josh still could have additional charges and could even be moved to another prison.  WOACB says his having a phone is listed as "greatest severity level of prohibited acts."  The disciplinary segregation can last up to 12 months.  As was mentioned above, he's lost all his 'good time' for this year, i.e. 52 days.

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

Time he's already spent in the SHU doesn't count against any he's given for the phone.

He'll probably reoffend before he leaves the SHU, and then get more SHU time.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[Absolom]

Actually Katie Joy got it a bit off.  The cells in the SHU where Josh is house two or three inmates for almost all of them.  They can get three showers a week and their exercise period is with a few other inmates in an enclosed cage like thing with part of it covered by tarpaulin.  The rest of it is close to correct.  Josh's offense is in the second highest category.  Committing murder is higher.  In Josh's case since his crime involved the internet possessing a phone that can connect is really bad. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Absolom

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

WOACB says his having a phone is listed as "greatest severity level of prohibited acts." 

This is not true.

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Luckily the judge put some safeguards in place. 

Not really. The judge assumed Anna would monitor the situation . . . 😳

[merylinkid]

I am not surprised he lost all his good time.   Given his crime, possessing that phone is a big deal.   And he was blatant about it.  He gave them no wiggle room.  He still hasn't learned to be subtle (Are you here about the child porn?).  

Anna is going to lose it with the no face to face visits and limited phone calls.  This will be more Satan trying to destroy her dogly family than accepting of the reality that this is who Josh is.

[BetyBee]

I'm sure Josh does want to be out of prison because of the thing he misses most - porn. Since access to porn is forbidden, he'll likely break parole soon after his release and he'll be back in if caught. His life is pretty grim, deservedly so. As an adult he's responsible for his situation, but his parents bear responsibility too. They knowingly hid his transgressions and did nothing to get him real help. This allowed him to escalate. 

[Stevie Nicks]

15 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

FF's release date has changed again. It's now listed as October 2032. I think it was August before? 

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Enjoy your stay, FF. 

[ChristmasCandy]

I swear that FF really wants to double his vacation.

[libgirl2]

25 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

I swear that FF really wants to double his vacation.

Let's hope he does! 

[Kiss my mutt]

So, Josh had to “fuck around and find out”. What a dumbass. 

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I'm sure Josh does want to be out of prison because of the thing he misses most - porn. Since access to porn is forbidden, he'll likely break parole soon after his release and he'll be back in if caught. His life is pretty grim, deservedly so. As an adult he's responsible for his situation, but his parents bear responsibility too. They knowingly hid his transgressions and did nothing to get him real help. This allowed him to escalate. 

And not just that - they actually gave young teen Josh his own private “media room” in the TTH complete with computer and a closed door. And a view of his siblings from above. 😳

[Zella]

10 hours ago, AstridM said:

Not really. The judge assumed Anna would monitor the situation . . . 😳

I don't know that they necessarily assume that, seeing as he was still not allowed to live at home even before the trial. Granted, I wouldn't have chosen the Rebers for watchdogs for him, and I doubt they'd report him, but I don't think the legal system is under any illusions really about Anna's reliability. 

[AstridM]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't know that they necessarily assume that, seeing as he was still not allowed to live at home even before the trial. Granted, I wouldn't have chosen the Rebers for watchdogs for him, and I doubt they'd report him, but I don't think the legal system is under any illusions really about Anna's reliability. 

I meant that the judge allowed Josh to see his own very young kids when accompanied by Anna. 

[Zella]

Just now, AstridM said:

I meant that the judge allowed Josh to see his own very young kids when accompanied by Anna. 

Yeah I wasn't a fan of that either, but I'm not sure what legal grounds they'd have for restricting that further at the time. Definitely a question for our resident lawyers. 

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Yeah I wasn't a fan of that either, but I'm not sure what legal grounds they'd have for restricting that further at the time. Definitely a question for our resident lawyers. 

 

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

I meant that the judge allowed Josh to see his own very young kids when accompanied by Anna. 

He was allowed to be around them as long as Anna never left them alone with him.   I think the judge was thinking they would only go over for short visits each week and that given those constraints Anna would just be sitting and talking to him so the kids would be supervised.   I don't think he was anticipating Anna practically moving in with the Rebers.  Which would make it harder to be around the kids EVERY SECOND.  

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, AstridM said:

And not just that - they actually gave young teen Josh his own private “media room” in the TTH complete with computer and a closed door. And a view of his siblings from above. 😳

It may have had a door, but it wasn't private because there were windows on two sides. But still, one would think his computer access would have been restricted. Hopefully it didn't have internet.

[ChristmasCandy]

19 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

It may have had a door, but it wasn't private because there were windows on two sides. But still, one would think his computer access would have been restricted. Hopefully it didn't have internet.

Of course it had internet.

[GeeGolly]

51 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

Of course it had internet.

I'm not sure it did. And if or when it did, Jana and Michelle controlled who had access. Not saying the FF didn't figure out a way to access it, just saying it wasn't handed to him on a platter.

JB&M may have mishandled the aftermath of Scandal #1, but they did try. Its not like they wanted Josh to do what he did, or to do more. 

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure it did. And if or when it did, Jana and Michelle controlled who had access. Not saying the FF didn't figure out a way to access it, just saying it wasn't handed to him on a platter.

JB&M may have mishandled the aftermath of Scandal #1, but they did try. Its not like they wanted Josh to do what he did, or to do more. 

They may have not wanted him to "do more," but I think they took a rather cavalier attitude about it. They sent him to a work camp, not therapy. And they had the underlying belief that this happened in "most families." Remember Jill trotting out the Gothard stats in the Megyn Kelly interview? Wasn't it 2/3 families? It was something completely insane and off base. Yet that's what they believed to be true. 

[GeeGolly]

15 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

They may have not wanted him to "do more," but I think they took a rather cavalier attitude about it. They sent him to a work camp, not therapy. And they had the underlying belief that this happened in "most families." Remember Jill trotting out the Gothard stats in the Megyn Kelly interview? Wasn't it 2/3 families? It was something completely insane and off base. Yet that's what they believed to be true. 

I don't mean to appear as a JB&M sympathizer, I just don't think its that black and white. I agree they screwed up, but I wouldn't say their initial response was cavalier. 

I can't find the stats I found before, but sibling abuse numbers are both under reported and higher than anyone would like to believe.

Here's another article:

https://www.verywellmind.com/facts-about-sibling-sexual-abuse-2610456

[scriggle]

Does FF accrue good time credit while in the SHU? It seems like he shouldn't since it's punishment. 

[Heathen]

14 hours ago, AstridM said:

And not just that - they actually gave young teen Josh his own private “media room” in the TTH complete with computer and a closed door. And a view of his siblings from above. 😳

I suspect Josh got his own room more to protect the other kids than to reward him in any way. I wouldn't be surprised if Jim Bob and Mullet were afraid he'd harm his brothers (or at least lead them astray). 

Either way, he had his own space while his siblings were in fundie dormitories. At the time (16 Kids and Moving In), I thought it was because Josh was the Golden Penis. Now I think it was for the other kids' safety.