Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[iwantcookies]

Happy bday FF Duggar ! You are where you belong for forever (prison).

Edited March 5, 2022 by iwantcookies

[Rootbeer]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:13 PM, dariafan said:

She will get to have a child free wedding   It sickens me they will be raised thinking he is doing the lords work while in prison 

Well, Josh has done more than enough of the devil's work outside of prison, so I guess it is time he put in some hours for the Lord.

[lulu69]

On 3/4/2022 at 3:55 PM, Cinnabon said:

Who is this alleged “family friend?” What a bunch of nonsense .

For some reason David Waller immediately came to mind.

Maybe it was the slightly 'off' speech style quoted in the article or the fact that the source seemed well acquainted with pappa Keller's prison ministry.

Waller was also regularly present at the Disgusting Turd's trial in support of Anna.

Just my guess.

[ginger90]

7 hours ago, lulu69 said:

Maybe it was the slightly 'off' speech style quoted in the article or the fact that the source seemed well acquainted with pappa Keller's prison ministry.

 

Was the article continued or edited, and I missed that? I just read it now. I didn’t see anything about a prison ministry.

The tone doesn’t sound like David Waller to me.

[GeeGolly]

To me "trusted source" or "family friend" in tabloids means speculation gathered from SM and snark sites.

[hathorlive]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:09 PM, GeeGolly said:

But they did try and stop Josh. And they did quite the opposite of covering it up. First they believed and acknowledged it happened. Then they sent Josh away, they arranged bedrooms to provide more safety and they put cameras in their home. JB's family, friends, church and community all knew what happened.

Many families don't believe the accusers, many deny and/or ignore it even happened. Most don't tell a soul outside of a trusted friend or in some cases, law enforcement and/or a therapist. Many times the abuser stays in the home and is never punished.

But when did they tell the church?  Before or after there was one, two, three, four or five victims?  After two victims, you need to remove the boy from the home and send him to get treatment.  They created more victims by their half asses "interventions" which probably started and ended with praying to jebus.  

[Nysha]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:09 PM, GeeGolly said:

But they did try and stop Josh. And they did quite the opposite of covering it up. First they believed and acknowledged it happened. Then they sent Josh away, they arranged bedrooms to provide more safety and they put cameras in their home. JB's family, friends, church and community all knew what happened.

A family member and spouse had this issue with their oldest son. They, too, tried to stop their son. They did this by calling the police and having him charged, voluntarily removing him from their house while the investigation was taking place, immediately getting their children and themselves therapy, driving 6 hours one way to attend family therapy at the facility their son was sentenced to, and making sure that when he was released (after he turned 18) he had a safe place to live and mentor to help him navigate his way to adulthood. His younger siblings didn't to see or live with him, so his parents traveled to visit him instead of allowing him to come home. 

20 years later he is married, his wife knows about his past even though his record has been sealed, and he's expecting his second baby in July. Only one of his siblings has a relationship with him and that is mainly over social media, but he understands and accepts responsibility for this. 

What they didn't do was lock their daughters in their rooms at night, make them change the way they dressed, or make them feel diminished or at fault. They didn't present their son, or their family, to the world as people to admire or emulate. 

[hathorlive]

Just now, Nysha said:

What they didn't do was lock their daughters in their rooms at night, make them change the way they dressed, or make them feel diminished or at fault. They didn't present their son, or their family, to the world as people to admire or emulate. 

Or act like their religion and their "modest" ways created a family that was ultra moral and good.  

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Nysha said:

A family member and spouse had this issue with their oldest son. They, too, tried to stop their son. They did this by calling the police and having him charged, voluntarily removing him from their house while the investigation was taking place, immediately getting their children and themselves therapy, driving 6 hours one way to attend family therapy at the facility their son was sentenced to, and making sure that when he was released (after he turned 18) he had a safe place to live and mentor to help him navigate his way to adulthood. His younger siblings didn't to see or live with him, so his parents traveled to visit him instead of allowing him to come home. 

20 years later he is married, his wife knows about his past even though his record has been sealed, and he's expecting his second baby in July. Only one of his siblings has a relationship with him and that is mainly over social media, but he understands and accepts responsibility for this. 

What they didn't do was lock their daughters in their rooms at night, make them change the way they dressed, or make them feel diminished or at fault. They didn't present their son, or their family, to the world as people to admire or emulate. 

This is awesome and I wish this was the norm, but from my personal experience working with clients and from what I read in the news, its not.

I can't remember the details exactly, but Oprah tells a story that as an adult, after years of therapy (and fame) she found herself getting her abuser a cup of coffee during a family function and everyone thinking it was fine and normal, as did she until she had an epiphany. There's a case in the news now of (I think) a coach raping an athlete. He cut a deal and will serve no jail time. I've read about too many stories in the news where abusers/rapists get off with little or no punishment from the courts.

I work with many clients who are survivors of childhood abuse. I obviously can't share all their stories here in detail, but unfortunately most situations of abuse don't follow a linear set of events starting from the molestations and ending with everyone included being happy and well adjusted adults. No matter what the story is, or how it was handled or mishandled, or whether or not everyone turned out fine, they are usually very messy.  

[Fosca]

Am I correct in thinking that Josh didn't confess to the church until after he had groped the non-relative/babysitter, so that the word was pretty much out anyway?  And that JB and M didn't do the same when he was "just" groping his sisters?  

[GeeGolly]

For the second time in a couple of months I've read about folks being arrested for lying to the Feds about crimes they have committed. It seems to be one way an arrest can be made as law enforcement tries to force a confession or makes more time to strengthen a case for court.

I wonder if Josh was aware of this law because he said more than once during the initial interview with the Feds he wasn't admitting guilt or claiming innocence.

If he did know about the law, it makes me think this wasn't his first time downloading illegal porn.

[SMama]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

For the second time in a couple of months I've read about folks being arrested for lying to the Feds about crimes they have committed. It seems to be one way an arrest can be made as law enforcement tries to force a confession or makes more time to strengthen a case for court.

I wonder if Josh was aware of this law because he said more than once during the initial interview with the Feds he wasn't admitting guilt or claiming innocence.

If he did know about the law, it makes me think this wasn't his first time downloading illegal porn.

The FF is as ignorant as his parents, just listen to the disastrous interview he willingly gave during the raid. I can’t see him being aware. FF just ran his mouth as his parents are known to do.

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, SMama said:

The FF is as ignorant as his parents, just listen to the disastrous interview he willingly gave during the raid. I can’t see him being aware. FF just ran his mouth as his parents are known to do.

That's the interview I'm talking about.

[merylinkid]

FF wasn't aware of the law.   He just thought he was outthinking the feds.   Oh I know, I won't admit guilt, but I won't claim innocence either, that will confuse them so much they will let me go.   

He thinks he is playing 3D chess while they are playing checkers when in reality he is eating the crayons.

[Rabbittron]

On 3/4/2022 at 4:00 PM, Zella said:

Would also like to point out that Jim Bob didn't just advocate for the death penalty for rape. He also called for it for incest too. 

But that doesn't mean Smuggar because there was no incest because every family has a person like that.  According to Blob and Clown Car. 

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, Rabbittron said:

But that doesn't mean Smuggar because there was no incest because every family has a person like that.  According to Blob and Clown Car. 

And he was just a typical teen boy; curious and sly.  And he only touched them over their clothes.  Except when he didn't.

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

But that doesn't mean Smuggar because there was no incest because every family has a person like that.  According to Blob and Clown Car. 

AND...incest means that sexual activity took place, which it clearly didn't with Josh. It was curiosity. He was a young man.  It was OVER the clothes.  That's not incest in Duggarworld.  It really scares me what else goes on that is never called out.

[CandyXmasTree]

16 hours ago, hathorlive said:

But when did they tell the church?  Before or after there was one, two, three, four or five victims?  After two victims, you need to remove the boy from the home and send him to get treatment.  They created more victims by their half asses "interventions" which probably started and ended with praying to jebus.  

Sorry but after one victim I would have called the cops.

[Scout Finch]

14 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

But that doesn't mean Smuggar because there was no incest because every family has a person like that.  According to Blob and Clown Car. 

Wasn't it one of his sisters who said that--no doubt seething inside at having to be part of the sham attempt to rehabilitate her molester's and hypocrite parents' image--during the Megyn Kelly interview?

[Zella]

I think the argument was it was no big deal because it happens in every family, not that it isn't incest, which I don't think they ever broached. It's kind of the height of an oxymoron to claim because it happened within the family, it's not incest. That's, you know, kind of what incest means. 

[sue450]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:14 AM, SnapHappy said:

This makes the most sense, as it's her only real way to contribute to her upkeep, and that of her kids.   

She's never struck me as lazy or a Jessa.  And I do agree she was instructed by the attorneys to always be by his side, reinforcing the "family support" angle.   That doesn't mean she actually wanted to be in the center ring of that circus.  

because  GOD comes first..the marrriage comes 2nd and the children always come 3rd....when josh was waiting trial anna spent all her time over at the house where he had to live  others took care of her children

[emmawoodhouse]

13 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

Wasn't it one of his sisters who said that--no doubt seething inside at having to be part of the sham attempt to rehabilitate her molester's and hypocrite parents' image--during the Megyn Kelly interview?

It was Jill who recalled the Gothard statistics. She claimed that sexual abuse happened in "two out of three families." WTAF. 

[CandyXmasTree]

I wonder how much time after Smugglers sentencing will we find out what federal prison Will he be be going to?

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, CandyXmasTree said:

I wonder how much time after Smugglers sentencing will we find out what federal prison Will he be be going to?

I think it just depends on what's available. As I understand it, he could languish in the county jail for several more months if there's no room at a federal facility.

[Tdoc72]

6 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

It was Jill who recalled the Gothard statistics. She claimed that sexual abuse happened in "two out of three families." WTAF. 

But I don’t believe she did any of her own research. Just parroting JB or Gothard or both. 

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

But I don’t believe she did any of her own research. Just parroting JB or Gothard or both. 

I meant "recalled" in that she was the one who was given the statistics to recite when the situation called for it. I even said they were Gothard's. She was merely the messenger to spout garbage she totally believed at the time. 

[SnapHappy]

21 hours ago, sue450 said:

because  GOD comes first..the marrriage comes 2nd and the children always come 3rd....when josh was waiting trial anna spent all her time over at the house where he had to live  others took care of her children

I don't think that's been proven at all.   Unless somebody was watching the Reber's house the entire time Josh was there and has substantiated it, there is no verification that Anna spent all her time there and left the care of her children entirely to others. 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by SnapHappy

[Albanyguy]

2 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Unless somebody was watching the Reber's house the entire time Josh was there and has substantiated it, there is no verification that Anna spent all her time there and left the care of her children entirely to others. 

And I doubt if Josh would have wanted her there for any extended period of time. Before his arrest, he never looked particularly happy to be around her. I think he's always found her to be cloying and tiresome. As long as he had Mrs. Reber there to make his bed and pick his wet towels up off the floor, he probably didn't encourage Anna to hang around much after she dropped off his daily supply of Cheetos and Ben and Jerry's.

ETA: Of course, there probably was the occasional "conjugal visit", but as Michelle observed "It doesn't take that long".

Edited March 10, 2022 by Albanyguy

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

I don't think that's been proven at all.   Unless somebody was watching the Reber's house the entire time Josh was there and has substantiated it, there is no verification that Anna spent all her time there and left the care of her children entirely to others. 

I might add that the Felon was also allowed to see his children. Anna and the Felon both knew there was a possibility he would go to jail so I'm guessing the kids had many visits to the Reber house.

[SusanM]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Anna and the Felon both knew there was a possibility he would go to jail so I'm guessing the kids had many visits to the Reber house.

I guess they had to know this was a possibility but I can't quite accept that they actually ever really did - think it was a possibility I mean.  At least not at first.  As the trial progressed reality may have started sinking in but I do think him being found guilty came as a shock to both of them.

[sue450]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:53 AM, Zella said:

I think the argument was it was no big deal because it happens in every family, not that it isn't incest, which I don't think they ever broached. It's kind of the height of an oxymoron to claim because it happened within the family, it's not incest. That's, you know, kind of what incest means. 

  and they don't acknowledge that because it happens so frequently  (almost every family)  that it  shows that their cult way of life is a big failure

[Rabbittron]

How many of the kids are married and have kids? Because they are known to say it happens to  most families.  So that means that there other Duggar  families that has happened to but they haven't been caught yet 🤔. 

[CalicoKitty]

1 hour ago, Rabbittron said:

How many of the kids are married and have kids? Because they are known to say it happens to  most families.  So that means that there other Duggar  families that has happened to but they haven't been caught yet 🤔. 

I will not be surprised if other "secrets" come out about this family.

[Nysha]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:37 AM, GeeGolly said:

I work with many clients who are survivors of childhood abuse. I obviously can't share all their stories here in detail, but unfortunately most situations of abuse don't follow a linear set of events starting from the molestations and ending with everyone included being happy and well adjusted adults. No matter what the story is, or how it was handled or mishandled, or whether or not everyone turned out fine, they are usually very messy.  

I agree. I wrote a very simplified snapshot of what happened. Even after years of therapy a couple of the victims hate their abuser and think two years in a locked down treatment facility was inadequate punishment for what they suffered. Where therapy helped, beyond processing the actual abuse, was it allowed them to accept that their parents could still maintain a relationship with him and believe/support the victims. But all of it was messy and incredibly painful.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I agree. I wrote a very simplified snapshot of what happened. Even after years of therapy a couple of the victims hate their abuser and think two years in a locked down treatment facility was inadequate punishment for what they suffered. Where therapy helped, beyond processing the actual abuse, was it allowed them to accept that their parents could still maintain a relationship with him and believe/support the victims. But all of it was messy and incredibly painful.

I was referring as much to the punishment side too - calling the police and the offender going straight to juvie for two years.

[merylinkid]

No matter what it was going to be messy.   but the Duggars did not really try.   Their solution, lock the GIRLS in their room at night.   Why not Josh?   Why were the VICTIMS' movements restricted and not the perpetrator.   Oh right, they sent him to Jesus jail for a bit.  Oh darn.   Then he came right home and got treated as extra special still.   He had all the cool electronics and his own room away from the maddening crowd.   The girls, still on duty, which included making sure Josh got treated as extra special and waiting on  him hand and foot.   

So no Ma and Pa Duggar don't get a "they tried their best" from me.

[Absolom]

Josh didn't have his own room.  There are no "spare" bedrooms in the house.  They have the boys' dorm type room and the girls' dorm type room.  There is no way Josh was in the guest room behind the laundry room.  He was shown in the closet off the boys' room converted to a video room, but there is no bed or room for a bed in there. 

[sue450]

On 3/10/2022 at 8:51 PM, CalicoKitty said:

I will not be surprised if other "secrets" come out about this family.

0

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Josh didn't have his own room.  There are no "spare" bedrooms in the house.  They have the boys' dorm type room and the girls' dorm type room.  There is no way Josh was in the guest room behind the laundry room.  He was shown in the closet off the boys' room converted to a video room, but there is no bed or room for a bed in there. 

the video room was off limits to the kids so who knows WHAT he was watching there 

Edited March 12, 2022 by sue450

[madpsych78]

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

No matter what it was going to be messy.   but the Duggars did not really try.   Their solution, lock the GIRLS in their room at night.   Why not Josh?   Why were the VICTIMS' movements restricted and not the perpetrator.   Oh right, they sent him to Jesus jail for a bit.  Oh darn.   Then he came right home and got treated as extra special still.   He had all the cool electronics and his own room away from the maddening crowd.   The girls, still on duty, which included making sure Josh got treated as extra special and waiting on  him hand and foot.   

So no Ma and Pa Duggar don't get a "they tried their best" from me.

Although I do give a major side-eye to the parents for restricting the victims and locking the victims in their room at night, it is important to keep in mind that Josh didn't have his own room. We have no evidence that the other boys have been either victims or perpetrators themselves, but locking Josh in his room would mean locking the other boys as well. I do think he probably should have been given the guest room and sequestered in there. 

[sue450]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:42 PM, Rabbittron said:

How many of the kids are married and have kids? Because they are known to say it happens to  most families.  So that means that there other Duggar  families that has happened to but they haven't been caught yet 🤔. 

10 out of the 19 duggar offspring are married..so if the numbers hold true it would indicate in theory that  3 out the ten  families  would have molestation  happening

Edited March 12, 2022 by sue450
corrected wrong number

[crazycatlady58]

3 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Although I do give a major side-eye to the parents for restricting the victims and locking the victims in their room at night, it is important to keep in mind that Josh didn't have his own room. We have no evidence that the other boys have been either victims or perpetrators themselves, but locking Josh in his room would mean locking the other boys as well. I do think he probably should have been given the guest room and sequestered in there. 

If I remember correctly the lock om the girls door was on the inside  

[sue450]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Josh didn't have his own room.  There are no "spare" bedrooms in the house.  They have the boys' dorm type room and the girls' dorm type room.  There is no way Josh was in the guest room behind the laundry room.  He was shown in the closet off the boys' room converted to a video room, but there is no bed or room for a bed in there. 

true  josh didn't have his own room but his VIDEO room was strictly off limits to the kids ...he said this in an episode on tv...you can image WHAT he was watching  in there

[BigBingerBro]

I always wondered how much Boob and JChell monitored that video room...  I also wondered if the "No Rugrats allowed" sign was more of a TLC manufactured thing to bring about a kind of "ah shucks" level of interest to the show.  I'm sure Josh didn't allow the little kids in there, but what was stopping his parents from monitoring what he was doing/watching in there?  They claimed they monitored everything...... but did they really?

[sue450]

6 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

If I remember correctly the lock om the girls door was on the inside  

yes the lock was on the inside

[Nysha]

28 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I always wondered how much Boob and JChell monitored that video room...  I also wondered if the "No Rugrats allowed" sign was more of a TLC manufactured thing to bring about a kind of "ah shucks" level of interest to the show.  I'm sure Josh didn't allow the little kids in there, but what was stopping his parents from monitoring what he was doing/watching in there?  They claimed they monitored everything...... but did they really?

I think part of the "No Rugrats" was to keep the girls from being alone with Josh. 

[Rootbeer]

18 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I think part of the "No Rugrats" was to keep the girls from being alone with Josh. 

Yep, it served as a plausible explanation for TLC audiences as to why Josh' other siblings never went in there,

[madpsych78]

Well OK, if the lock was on the inside of the girls' room, that's a little better because that gives the girls some control over locking/unlocking the door. 

[Mindthinkr]

26 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Well OK, if the lock was on the inside of the girls' room, that's a little better because that gives the girls some control over locking/unlocking the door. 

Also a means of safety. What if there was a fire or a bad storm damaged that part of the house? 

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Their solution, lock the GIRLS in their room at night.   Why not Josh? 

Exactly! In the words of Golda Meir:  “but it is the men who are attacking the women. If there is to be a curfew, let the men stay at home.” 

[xwordfanatik]

46 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Also a means of safety. What if there was a fire or a bad storm damaged that part of the house? 

I guess they didn't worry about that.  Sad.