Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, Albanyguy said:

If Josh has to register as a sex offender (and I don't see how he can avoid it), that will throw a monkey wrench in Anna's plan to get pregnant the day he's released from prison. The hope of eventually having another baby with Josh is the only thing that she'll have to look forward to during the long years ahead and once he's home, she'll be hell-bent on making it happen, despite the fact that she'll be approaching the end of her childbearing years by then.

I don’t see the connection between him registering and Anna getting pregnant. 

[Albanyguy]

2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I don’t see the connection between him registering and Anna getting pregnant. 

Would he legally be allowed to be anywhere near the baby?

[ginger90]

Just now, Albanyguy said:

Would he legally be allowed to be anywhere near the baby?

As far as I know restrictions can be placed on him while he’s under supervision (probation or parole)upon release. That doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t live with Anna and their children.

[madpsych78]

Surprised that Jed! came up as someone who would be potentially successful. I would have put Austin and even Jason, James and Justin ahead of that.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Surprised that Jed! came up as someone who would be potentially successful. I would have put Austin and even Jason, James and Justin ahead of that.

Agree.

[Heathen]

20 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

Would he legally be allowed to be anywhere near the baby?

Maybe or maybe not, but it wouldn't prevent Ofsmuggar from getting pregnant. Two different topics there. 

I wonder if the sins of their father will affect the M-kids' futures. Will anyone, even a fundie leghumper, want to marry someone whose father is a pedophile and convicted sex offender? It isn't as if Duggar is a common name and they can pretend they're not related. How did Tabitha Paine's anal rapist fare between his conviction and his eventual marriage? Did he dive into fundieness because (ignorant) fundies were the only people who would have anything to do with him? 

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

Maybe or maybe not, but it wouldn't prevent Ofsmuggar from getting pregnant. Two different topics there. 

I wonder if the sins of their father will affect the M-kids' futures. Will anyone, even a fundie leghumper, want to marry someone whose father is a pedophile and convicted sex offender? It isn't as if Duggar is a common name and they can pretend they're not related. How did Tabitha Paine's anal rapist fare between his conviction and his eventual marriage? Did he dive into fundieness because (ignorant) fundies were the only people who would have anything to do with him? 

I’m very curious about this because JB & M didn’t have a problem throwing the “sins of the father” often. They have always felt superior to everyone else. Now that their monster felon is drowning in sins, will they be quick to note their 7 grandchildren are damaged goods?

Tabitha Paine married the rapist and they seem to disappear. I’d like to know if they had children, and if they are still together.

[Meow25]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

I’m very curious about this because JB & M didn’t have a problem throwing the “sins of the father” often. They have always felt superior to everyone else. Now that their monster felon is drowning in sins, will they be quick to note their 7 grandchildren are damaged goods?

Tabitha Paine married the rapist and they seem to disappear. I’d like to know if they had children, and if they are still together.

Well...It wasn't really rape because the woman was asking for it by not having proper clothing on.   Remember, there is no such thing as rape because men can't control themselves if they can see an ankle or a collar bone.

  :(

[Nysha]

On 2/20/2022 at 12:31 PM, ginger90 said:

On 2/20/2022 at 12:16 PM, Albanyguy said:

Would he legally be allowed to be anywhere near the baby?

As far as I know restrictions can be placed on him while he’s under supervision (probation or parole)upon release. That doesn’t necessarily mean he can’t live with Anna and their children.

In my state, as long as he wasn't convicted of abusing his children, he would be able to live at home. He may also be allowed to have other children in the home as long as Anna is also present. 

When I was a foster mom one of my placements was a young, homeschooled sibling group who had been abused by their father, again. The first time the father went to a prison for sex offenders and finished the 12 month program. He was allowed to come back home and reoffended. Since he wasn't supposed to be alone with the children, his wife was charged with felony injury to a child. The kids went from my home to an adoptive placement.

[merylinkid]

15 minutes ago, Nysha said:

He may also be allowed to have other children in the home as long as Anna is also present. 

because she did such a bang up job keeping an eye on him before.   

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Heathen said:

I wonder if the sins of their father will affect the M-kids' futures. Will anyone, even a fundie leghumper, want to marry someone whose father is a pedophile and convicted sex offender? It isn't as if Duggar is a common name and they can pretend they're not related. How did Tabitha Paine's anal rapist fare between his conviction and his eventual marriage? Did he dive into fundieness because (ignorant) fundies were the only people who would have anything to do with him? 

Taking my reply to Small Talk. 

[emmawoodhouse]

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

because she did such a bang up job keeping an eye on him before.   

He wasn't allowed to be around his children without Anna being present as a condition of his house arrest. When he's released, I imagine the sane rules will apply when he's on parole. Anna won't even be able to go to the store or get a pedicure without having to take her minor children with her. Because we know that Smuggar won't be working much outside the home. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by emmawoodhouse
Parole, not probation. Oops!

[ginger90]

If Josh is sentenced, and serves time he would then be on *supervised release* not probation. If Josh were to get probation, I’d spit nails.

Edited February 22, 2022 by ginger90

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

because she did such a bang up job keeping an eye on him before.   

I think the conditions are meant for Anna to keep the children in her presence safe, not necessarily keep Josh from committing online crimes.

[emmawoodhouse]

5 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

If Josh is sentenced, and serves time he would then be on parole, not probation. If Josh were to get probation, I’d spit nails.

My bad! I meant parole. I'll edit my post so I don't look like a total moron. 😁

[Absolom]

Congress eliminated parole from the federal prison system in, I believe, the 80s.  Inmates now have to serve something like 80% of their sentence and then might get supervised release.  Thus we now have the halfway houses we hear about.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by Absolom

[ginger90]

7 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Congress eliminated parole from the federal prison system in, I believe, the 80s.  Inmates now have to serve something like 80% of their sentence and then might get supervised release.  Thus those we now have the halfway houses we hear about.  

And I knew that somewhere in my brain! Supervised release, took it’s place. Now I have to edit my post too! 🤣😂

Edited February 22, 2022 by ginger90

[iwantcookies]

All I want to know if she is pregnant with m #8

[Absolom]

1 minute ago, ginger90 said:

Supervised release, took it’s place I assume.

Yes, it's not exactly the same, but allows some inmates to be out of the full prison earlier.  Those who watched Dance Moms may have seen the supervised release place Abby Lee Miller was initially sent after prison.  

[Rabbittron]

MommyRabbittron here and I am doing the happy dance because I was watching 411 now on YouTube and it was all about where Smuggar could go to prison because of the sex offenders program that he needs. Arkansas federal prison doesn't have the program but Englewood Colorado federal prison has the program. Maybe I will get my wish that he gets a nice 15 year vacation in Colorado. 

[Quilt Fairy]

AFAIK, he is not obligated to go through the sex offfender program.

[Rabbittron]

I have just told my mom that if Smuggar gets a all expenses paid Colorado vacation I am putting her house up for rent she is going to move in with me not only because she is sick but if Smuggar goes to Englewood prison I can't trust her. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Rabbittron

[mythoughtis]

I think that Anna could be a lot different by the time Josh gets out of prison.  Let’s say it’s 8 years.   That’s 8 years of no pregnancies, several years out of diapers for the youngest child and a whole pack of teenagers.  She’s going to change a lot internally after raising 7  kids while he is in prison.  I personally do not think she will want more kids at that point    JB and Michelle will be 8 years older with their youngest close to 20.  Which means they will have a whole pack of adult offspring with opinions and minds of their own having been through 8 years of no tv money.

look. Christine left Kody.  That wasn’t predicted to ever happen.  So don’t assume that Anna  won’t have changed by the time Josh gets out.  Time doesn’t stand still. 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by mythoughtis

[ginger90]

9 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

AFAIK, he is not obligated to go through the sex offfender program.

As far as I know, the BOP will decide where he will serve his sentence. If they decide he will go to a SOMP facility, that’s where he’ll go. Program participation itself is voluntary.

[Westiepeach]

6 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I think that Anna could be a lot different by the time Josh gets out of prison.

Plus, FF will also be a way different person when he gets out of prison as well.

[crazycatlady58]

51 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Plus, FF will also be a way different person when he gets out of prison as well.

Yes, but I don't think he will improve. 

[GeeGolly]

I wonder if we'll be privy to the Felon's daily prison life. Will he be in isolation? Will he be in the general population ever? I think many inmates in general population acclimate okay and can come out okay. Being in isolation will mess up most everyone. I get why its needed, but if the inmate will be released eventually, I think it causes great harm and adds additional risks to the community they're released into.

[Jeeves]

On 2/18/2022 at 3:33 AM, Boxer Woman said:

Also I find it funny that once the interview concludes Josh, in his own idiotic way, tries to kiss ass and make friends with people who know he's a complete sicko pedophile, by asking something like "Is that Dak?" referring to Duane Kees, at the time United States Attorney For The Western District Of Arkansas, as if this guy is his friend or something, then cops tell him no, an assistant would be working his case, and even though nothing is stated, seems almost like Josh is disappointed that his case wasn't worthy enough of "Dak's" personal attention.  Dak almost definitely wants nothing to do with Josh.

I agree with @GeeGolly that FF will have a better experience if he's not in isolation. I'd like to think they wouldn't send him to a place where he couldn't be in the general population. In thinking about how FF will fare in prison, I really don't know.

In prison, FF will no longer be floating through a life that's laid out for him by his parents. Except for his failed FRC experience, his whole life he's done what his parents told him, worked at things his dad provided (car lots, real estate deals), married young to a nice fundie girl when his parents believed it would "save" him from ungodly activities, went off to Jesus Jail all arranged by daddy, duly impregnated his wife on the regular although it was clear as day that he wasn't on the big family bandwagon. And all the time he was indulging in his sordid-to-felonious pleasures on the sly. Back during Joshgate I remember him actually telling reporters who asked him about his OWN behavior, "You'll have to talk to my dad about that."

So now he'll be in prison and on his own to deal with the authorities and his fellow guests of the government. I doubt his pathetic political schmoozing skilz - as displayed in the post I've quoted above - will get him very far. Nobody will give a sh*t who his parents are. He could develop some new coping skills, not all of them bad, if left alone to deal with prison.

BUT. Don't forget, his deranged father has been quoted as fervently telling his family that the FF has been chosen by God to be like Paul in prison - which I assume means that FF will conduct a fabulous prison ministry and save souls for Jesus by the busload. Or something. 

I think FF - although in prison - will have his father, his wife, and his father-in-law constantly communicating with him in all allowable ways, pushing Jesus Jesus Jesus all the time. It could play out in different ways over time. But it certainly has the setup for FF to pay lip service to them and their Jesus talk - and do absolutely nothing about it in his daily life in lockup. He won't be - God forbid - consuming CSAM, but he could just continue his well-established public/secret life split, just in a different venue with different details. 

The least unhealthy outcome, IMO, would be that the FF finally says to his dad/wife/FIL: "I am NOT in here to preach Jesus. I don't want to talk to you if you're going to preach to me about Jesus. Let's leave that alone." But that would require a level of honesty that is probably beyond the FF's reach -and would trigger massive explosions and repercussions by JB, Meech, Anna, the Kellers, et al. (I don't think his sibs would give a damn, but some would feel pressured to go along with the parents' outrage.)

[mythoughtis]

I don’t know anything about federal prison visiting rules.  I think they may be less restrictive than many states.  
I do know something about state rules in my state.  It’s not the pleasant experience you see on tv.  There are only a certain number of visits/visitors per prisoner per month. You get specific rules about clothing( no shorts, no halter tops, etc).  You don’t carry a bunch of stuff in. your car key, your id, and a specific debit card purchased and loaded in the lobby( for use in the vending machines).  The first two will be left in a locker,  if available.  You are patted down and your shoes examined.  Depending on security level, they may write down your jewelry and clothing info. You may or may not be able to walk to the visitor room by yourself.  You may have to wait for someone to take you.  You may or may not get to leave at a time of your choosing.  You may or may not get to walk to the bathroom without an escort.  You will be told where to sit in the visitor room. Your prisoner will be searched before abs after your visit.   You may or may not be able to have the prisoner accompany you to the vending machine for a drink or a snack selection. You aren’t allowed to socialize with other visitors or prisoners.  You will feel like you are also a criminal.  
JB, Michelle and the rest are not going to do well if that’s the routine.  It’s pretty intrusive 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by mythoughtis

[SMama]

7 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:
 

You will feel like you are also a criminal.  

JB, Michelle and the rest are not going to do well if that’s the routine.  It’s pretty intrusive 

 

 

 

 

JB & Michelle deserve to get a taste of feeling like the criminals they are. They failed all their children, but specially the FF’s victims. 
 

But, would they bother to visit their monster? Most people are mindful of optics during a trial, yet Michelle didn’t attend a single day. JB&M are notorious for their ability to not be inconvenienced even when raising a litter of kids. Visitation will probably fall on Anna. If the jail logs are any indication it seems the FF visits mostly with his wife.

[Hpmec]

His older kids will be told daddy's doing the Lord's work at a prison, helping the prisoners know Jesus. That's what the family expects him to be doing for the duration of his involuntary stay there. The reality is he'll be laying in his bunk, doing whatever work detail he's assigned if he's not in solitary, trying to avoid getting his ass kicked or becoming someone's shower buddy, and counting the days until he can get out. I think he gave lip service to religion, but it never had much of an impact. 

[Jeeves]

I'm sure Anna will be all in for personal visits. Before she got married, didn't she help her dad with his prison ministry? She may have more experience than we think with visiting prisons. I don't know if Pa Keller's prison ministry included holding meetings/services or was limited to one on one visits with prisoners and I don't know for sure if Anna set foot in any lockups. But I thought I read somewhere that she had somehow helped her dad, so who knows.

Anyway, as an inmate's wife she won't get any special treatment like a visiting minister would, and this is the federal system, not the local/state lockups that she may have visited with her dad's ministry gigs. She may find the personal visiting experience upsetting, and if she has to travel far, JB may not be generous with the use of the Duggar Aviation planes for that purpose.

Not that she may be allowed to visit frequently. The BOP info page on visitation says an inmate by law gets at least four hours of visitation per month although many institutions allow more than that. I believe the pandemic has impacted the visitation system but assume those restrictions will eventually be lifted. If the FF is limited to four or even eight hours a month of visits, Anna will be very very displeased. 

But regardless of the limits on personal visits, they can write to the FF, and I'm sure he'll get plenty of written communications, heavy on the religious content. I just don't think JB will leave him alone, we know Anna's not going to, and good old Pa Keller has a custom-made recipient of his mission to save souls in prison, right there in the family. I expect the FF to do his usual passive/sneaky thing and basically blow it all off while paying lip service to the family. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Jeeves

[GeeGolly]

The limited series, Inventing Anna, gives a close to accurate depiction of prison visits. Not glamorous at all. I have no doubt, for the first year anyway, Anna will be there at every opportunity. I'm sure the kids will want to see their dad as well. Time will tell if Anna and the kids will hang in there for the entire sentence. Mack and Michael will likely have their licenses before the Felon is out.

[dariafan]

Maybe he can learn a trade ???   

[Zella]

5 hours ago, ginger90 said:

As far as I know, the BOP will decide where he will serve his sentence. If they decide he will go to a SOMP facility, that’s where he’ll go. Program participation itself is voluntary.

Yes that's my understanding. He can build his entire sentence without ever participating in that program, even if he is in a facility that offers it. And even if he does enter it, it's for a limited period of time, normally at the end of the sentence. He's not going to spend the entire time in that program. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Zella

[zoomama]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

But, would they bother to visit their monster? Most people are mindful of optics during a trial, yet Michelle didn’t attend a single day.

regarding michelle and the trial.....isnt it very likely that JB instructed her NOT to attend at all? i know he told the kids to be there but i wonder if JB told her not to be there so she was left 'innocent' of the info about josh. so i guess what i am getting at is that maybe she wanted to attend but was not allowed to be there? thoughts.....

[ginger90]

Josh gets to make a list of who he approves as far as visitors. Then that list has to be approved. Last I saw the list can have 20 names. I wonder who he’ll have on his list.

Edited February 23, 2022 by ginger90

[SusanM]

On 2/20/2022 at 12:27 AM, quarks said:

On top of that, he's going to struggle finding any sort of employment other than (maybe) working for his brothers.

In some ways if this were to happen it would be the ultimate humiliation for him.  I think even going to prison isn't going to do that as he has zero appreciation that he's done anything wrong so he can play the martyr even if only Anna and himself truly buy into that.  But when he gets out of prison should he end up having to work for one of his brothers - oh man - the mighty Josh Duggar not being top man? Having to answer to one of the siblings he's always lorded over before?  I'm in with that.

Edited February 23, 2022 by SusannahM

[merylinkid]

2 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

 You will feel like you are also a criminal.  
JB, Michelle and the rest are not going to do well if that’s the routine.

there are also set times.   Federal Prison does not care about Duggar time.   if visiting hour start at 9 a.m. (for example) and end at Noon, none of this showing up at 2 p.m. and expecting a visit.    

Life is going to be very regimented for Josh.   he will not have  a place he can just retreat to with a sign that says "no rugrats" allowed.   he will not be treated as special.   he will not get special privileges just because he is Josh Duggar.   

[SMama]

41 minutes ago, zoomama said:

regarding michelle and the trial.....isnt it very likely that JB instructed her NOT to attend at all? i know he told the kids to be there but i wonder if JB told her not to be there so she was left 'innocent' of the info about josh. so i guess what i am getting at is that maybe she wanted to attend but was not allowed to be there? thoughts.....

How is it known JB told the kids to be there? Honestly curious. One can make the argument that if Michelle wanted to be there he would not be able to stop her. 

[BetyBee]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

But, would they bother to visit their monster? Most people are mindful of optics during a trial, yet Michelle didn’t attend a single day. JB&M are notorious for their ability to not be inconvenienced even when raising a litter of kids. Visitation will probably fall on Anna. If the jail logs are any indication it seems the FF visits mostly with his wife.

I would definitely visit my child in prison, no matter what they were in for. I would think that Michelle would too. JB probably would go, since he went to Josh's trial. Letters are a good morale booster too. I know some disagree with me about visits and letters for Josh, but imo he is still their child. I have an incarcerated family member and I still love them and write to them. My relative is too far away to visit.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Josh gets to make a list of who he approves as far as visitors. Then that list has to be approved. Last I saw the list can have 20 names. I wonder who he’ll have in his list.

Saw where? We don’t even know which prison he’ll be in yet.

[Jeeves]

56 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Saw where? We don’t even know which prison he’ll be in yet.

I don't know about the limit of 20 on the visitor list. But no matter which federal prison he's in, these are the rules that govern visitation for federal inmates: https://www.bop.gov/inmates/visiting.jsp. The details of visiting days/hours, etc., may vary among institutions, but the overall system described there would be the same no matter where he's sent. ETA: I haven't explored it to see what COVID related measures are in place with regard to visitation but here's the BOP's main page about its COVID policies, etc.: https://www.bop.gov/coronavirus/index.jsp

Edited February 23, 2022 by Jeeves

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Saw where? We don’t even know which prison he’ll be in yet.

On many BOP sites available with the information. 

[zoomama]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

How is it known JB told the kids to be there? Honestly curious. One can make the argument that if Michelle wanted to be there he would not be able to stop her. 

it was my understanding that JB had certain kids attend the trial on certain days. obviously i have no proof of that. i got that info from this site.  and you are correct about michelle but do we know if she ever crosses him about anything? 

[GeeGolly]

32 minutes ago, zoomama said:

it was my understanding that JB had certain kids attend the trial on certain days. obviously i have no proof of that. i got that info from this site.  and you are correct about michelle but do we know if she ever crosses him about anything? 

IMO, Michelle is in charge and always has been.

[SMama]

49 minutes ago, zoomama said:

it was my understanding that JB had certain kids attend the trial on certain days. obviously i have no proof of that. i got that info from this site.  and you are correct about michelle but do we know if she ever crosses him about anything? 

The reason I asked is that if JB asked/told any Dugbot to attend JD & Josiah would have been there. I’d chosen my married, established sons, with their own children, to display their faith in the first born monster. I’m glad neither attended.

Great question about Michelle crossing JB. Someone better come up with a reliable tell all soon.😂

[ALittleShelfish]

Admittedly, I haven't followed this family as closely as many of you, so forgive me if this is "LOL stop just get out" stupid of a question....

Do you think that JB is just *so* delusional and narcissistic that he might try to shop a jailhouse interview with Josh to another network as a last ditch effort to convince someone/anyone of Josh's innocence (or at least some sympathy)? 

I'm sure the IDEA of it makes Jessa think "Please don't do that to my mentions." lol

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, ALittleShelfish said:

Admittedly, I haven't followed this family as closely as many of you, so forgive me if this is "LOL stop just get out" stupid of a question....

Do you think that JB is just *so* delusional and narcissistic that he might try to shop a jailhouse interview with Josh to another network as a last ditch effort to convince someone/anyone of Josh's innocence (or at least some sympathy)? 

I'm sure the IDEA of it makes Jessa think "Please don't do that to my mentions." lol

I dunno. Who would watch Smuggar try to proclaim his innocence? Even leghumpers have turned against them. 

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I don't know about the limit of 20 on the visitor list. But no matter which federal prison he's in, these are the rules that govern visitation for federal inmates: https://www.bop.gov/inmates/visiting.jsp. The details of visiting days/hours, etc., may vary among institutions, but the overall system described there would be the same no matter where he's sent. ETA: I haven't explored it to see what COVID related measures are in place with regard to visitation but here's the BOP's main page about its COVID policies, etc.: https://www.bop.gov/coronavirus/index.jsp

Thanks. I couldn’t find anything about the limit of 20, either.