Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[emmawoodhouse]

WOACB put in a FOIA request and got phone/video logs for the two week period 12/28-1/10. There are a TON of both calls and video chats. I thought he only had an hour out of his cell each day, but the times of the calls are listed, and it looks like he practically has free reign of the place.

Edited January 14, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[Cinnabon]

42 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

WOACB put in a FOIA request and got phone/video logs for the two week period 12/28-1/10. There are a TON of both calls and video chats. I thought he only had an hour out of his cell each day, but the times of the calls are listed, and it looks like he practically has free reign of the place.

Those calls also get expensive! JB is still shelling out money for the golden boy. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Cinnabon

[emmawoodhouse]

37 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Those calls also get expensive! JB is still shelling out money for the golden boy. 

It's already run into hundreds of dollars. It will be well into four digits if they keep up this torrid pace until sentencing day. 

I imagine that he won't have quite this amount of freedom at the Fed Pen.

[GeeGolly]

That is so not what I expected from Josh's jail time.

[Absolom]

There are 700 or so inmates. Apparently most of the rest don’t have family willing to spend that much. I can’t imagine the jail has more than somewhat limited phones and computers.

[JoanArc]

3 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I imagine that he won't have quite this amount of freedom at the Fed Pen.

 The thought of him eating a bologna sandwich in solitary confinement cell brings me so much joy. 

 

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

That is so not what I expected from Josh's jail time.

 It won’t last forever. I imagine once the sentence is actually handed down and appeals go nowhere they’ll break out of this denial phase. 

[Rabbittron]

26 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 

 

 It won’t last forever. I imagine once the sentence is actually handed down and appeals go nowhere they’ll break out of this denial phase. 

They will never get out of the denial phase.

3 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

 

I imagine that he won't have quite this amount of freedom at the Fed Pen.

Depending on which security level you are at federal prison you can have more freedom than county jail. 

[JoanArc]

Just now, Rabbittron said:

They will never get out of the denial phase.

Well, not publicly. It’ll be just like when they knew Josh was a monster. Common knowledge that they all pleasantly ignore. They’re such slimy snakes that they will never stop trying to find a way to get him off the hook. Ever.   Much easier than having to admit to themselves that they are not perfect and that their empire is pretty much toast. 

[AnnaBaptist]

1 hour ago, Rabbittron said:

They will never get out of the denial phase.

Depending on which security level you are at federal prison you can have more freedom than county jail. 

Yes, there is a reason that certain security levels at prison are called "Club Fed".

[Rabbittron]

6 hours ago, AnnaBaptist said:

Yes, there is a reason that certain security levels at prison are called "Club Fed".

The Federal prison near my mom's house in Colorado is known as Club Fed and if Smuggar does go there maybe he can get free food from Subway because the guy from Subway is on a vacation there.

[Insert Username]

The irony? Josh probably talks to Anna more now then he did when he was home. I get the feeling that, when not at the crime shack work, he probably spent all of his time with his nose in the phone, only grunting at Anna when he wanted food, drink, or sexy times. He never seemed to be an involved or engaged father and husband.

[crazy8s]

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

That is so not what I expected from Josh's jail time.

It was said JB was telling family and friends Joshua being in jail was where he would be like the imprisoned Apostle Paul.

not sure about any of you, but i remember Paul's story is about witnessing to fellow prisoners, writing letters to distant churches and converting guards to christianity.  not at all having visitors to entertain him all day.

but then again these are the duggars who do things a bit different..... i think the likeness to Paul ends in their minds with Paul was imprisoned unjustly/persecuted etc and not what he actually did while imprisoned.

[Ljohnson1987]

Josh couldn't do anything for himself. Anna met his needs. 

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, Insert Username said:

The irony? Josh probably talks to Anna more now then he did when he was home. I get the feeling that, when not at the crime shack work, he probably spent all of his time with his nose in the phone, only grunting at Anna when he wanted food, drink, or sexy times. He never seemed to be an involved or engaged father and husband.

Agreed. I keep thinking back to Josh's mugshot when he turned himself in. His eyes were bleary, like Anna had to rouse him out of bed and drag him down there. I don't think he did much of anything besides download CSA and look at porn. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Finally, Anna can get some non-sexual attention from Josh. 

[hathorlive]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:53 AM, Rabbittron said:

The Federal prison near my mom's house in Colorado is known as Club Fed and if Smuggar does go there maybe he can get free food from Subway because the guy from Subway is on a vacation there.

Even Club Fed is fairly restrictive.  You still get strip searched upon entering and leaving.  You are still not free to leave. Josh will be confined to a unit with sex offenders that has a counseling segment.  I'm pretty sure no outside food is allowed, or it wasn't when I worked at a Federal Medical Center.  

[Absolom]

Someone earlier mentioned that Josh is currently serving his time at the Washington County jail where some of the inmates were treated with ivermectin.  Some of them are filing suit.  

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arkansas-inmates-ivermectin-federal-lawsuit-jail/

I wonder how long Anna will continue the phone calls and video visits at the clip they were going in his first month in jail.  Surely she needs to turn to dealing with the kids.  

[Mindthinkr]

3 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Surely she needs to turn to dealing with the kids.  

Sadly I think her priority is her headship and not her children. 

[FizzyPuff]

On 1/15/2022 at 8:24 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Finally, Anna can get some non-sexual attention from Josh. 

What on earth do those two talk about? I’d love to be a fly on a wall for one conversation. 

[sara416]

1 hour ago, FizzyPuff said:

What on earth do those two talk about? I’d love to be a fly on a wall for one conversation. 

I was just thinking the same thing! My husband and I talk about things that happened in our day, other people we know and what is going on with them (not gossip, just news), and things we read or see. Even before he was incarcerated, these people did nothing other than be together and stay very insular. How long can you talk about the Bible?

[sagittarius sue]

13 minutes ago, sara416 said:

How long can you talk about the Bible?

Perhaps their calls have nothing to do with the Bible.  Perhaps they're having phone sex?

[BetyBee]

My guess is they're still talking about how unfair his guilty verdict is and expressing hope for a more "just" outcome via appeals. She probably talks about how the kids are doing, but I doubt he pays attention to that stuff. 

[Albanyguy]

3 hours ago, FizzyPuff said:

What on earth do those two talk about? I’d love to be a fly on a wall for one conversation. 

I suspect that Anna does more listening than talking. She probably makes soothing noises of agreement while Josh hashes the trial over and over, ranting about the "stupidity" of his lawyers and the "unfairness" of the verdict. He may be clinging to the belief that his conviction will be overturned on appeal because these things just aren't supposed to happen to Duggars.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

My guess is they're still talking about how unfair his guilty verdict is and expressing hope for a more "just" outcome via appeals. She probably talks about how the kids are doing, but I doubt he pays attention to that stuff. 

I doubt whether Anna talks about the kids at all. Her headship is her priority.

[JoanArc]

6 hours ago, Absolom said:

Surely she needs to turn to dealing with the kids.  

"Uh, they're already born. I'm done." -Michelle/Anna Duggar

[Quilt Fairy]

19 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

"Uh, they're already born. I'm done." -Michelle/Anna Duggar

"My seed has been righteously sown.  I'm done.  Until tomorrow night." - Every married male Duggar

[JustRosie]

According to WOACB, Josh’s lawyers have declined two collect calls from him. Is it typical for lawyers to decline calls from their client?  TYIA. 

[Zella]

I don't know if it's common, but it made me laugh really hard. Did the checks bounce?

[Rabbittron]

4 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

I doubt whether Anna talks about the kids at all. Her headship is her priority.

Her kids are just accessories. 

[SusanM]

I know we've talked about possible sentences for Josh but I can't remember now if there is a minimum sentence he will get,  I don't think there is any possibility that he's going to  get a few months or home arrest but I was curious if there is a base sentence for crimes of this nature.

Edited January 18, 2022 by SusannahM

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

I know we've talked about possible sentences for Josh but I can't remember now if there is a minimum sentence he will get,  I don't think there is any possibility that he's going to  get a few months or home arrest but I was curious if there is a base sentence for crimes of this nature.

He has a 5-year minimum sentence. 

[iwantcookies]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I don't know if it's common, but it made me laugh really hard. Did the checks bounce?

Yes 

[MsJamieDornan]

4 hours ago, Namaste said:

According to WOACB, Josh’s lawyers have declined two collect calls from him. Is it typical for lawyers to decline calls from their client?  TYIA. 

I've never heard of a lawyer declining calls from jail. But anything can happen.

[Quilt Fairy]

55 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I've never heard of a lawyer declining calls from jail.

I've heard of it.  But it's usually the punch line of a joke. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Quilt Fairy

[Lady Jane]

4 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I've never heard of a lawyer declining calls from jail. But anything can happen.

The lawyer just may not have been in the office, or on the phone. I can't see why reception would accept just to tell him that. 

[ginger90]

From what I’ve seen, an extension has been granted on his appeal. Apparently they had 30 days, it’s been extended by 10. Now they have until January 19th.

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

From what I’ve seen, an extension has been granted on his appeal. Apparently they had 30 days, it’s been extended by 10. Now they have until January 19th.

The checks have not cleared.  A notice of appeal literally consists of "We hereby give notice of appeal."   the transcript needs to be ordered, but does not have to be filed at the 30 day mark, the brief is due later.    You don't have to have all the grounds laid out in the notice.  So needing 10 days to just file a one page piece of paper is ... odd.   Unless there is an argument over costs.

This is based on my knowledge of appeals at the state level, federal might be different.   

[ginger90]

From one of the articles I saw:

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by ginger90

[SusanM]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

The checks have not cleared. 

I'm sorry but forgive me if this is a dumb question.  You mean the cheques to pay Josh's Dream Team lawyers have not cleared?  Or does this refer to something else?

[GeeGolly]

Don't lawyers on expensive cases ask for a retainer? Or at least bill regularly? I can't imagine the Felon would have much, if any, of a balance due.

[smittykins]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:53 AM, Rabbittron said:

The Federal prison near my mom's house in Colorado is known as Club Fed and if Smuggar does go there maybe he can get free food from Subway because the guy from Subway is on a vacation there.

Everything I’ve read suggests that he’ll be in medium security.

[SusanM]

24 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Don't lawyers on expensive cases ask for a retainer? Or at least bill regularly? I can't imagine the Felon would have much, if any, of a balance due.

I'd expect lawyers get paid upfront.  A lot of people who get convicted must blame their lawyers.  I mean it's never because they're actually guilty after all!

[ginger90]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Don't lawyers on expensive cases ask for a retainer? Or at least bill regularly? I can't imagine the Felon would have much, if any, of a balance due.

Everything is billed, emails, phone conversations, everything. I imagine there would have been a sizable retainer, at the very least.

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Everything is billed, emails, phone conversations, everything. I imagine there would have been a sizable retainer, at the very least.

Yeah, Josh' lawyer is a big time guy out of St Louis.  He defends people charged with crimes similar to Josh' all the time. Most of them are guilty and looking at years in prison if convicted.  You better believe he got a sizable retainer prior to even taking the case and then JB received monthly invoices to keep up with costs.  Before the trial started, I expect that there was a sizable fee paid in advance based on the number of days they expected the trial to last.  Not to mention first class travel and hotel rooms and meals for his legal team.

Travis Story might be willing to work on a promise of payment; big time defense lawyers are not.  Look at who they're dealing with, they trust no one and expect their payment in advance for the most part.

Most likely, the calls were refused because the lawyer wasn't available to talk at that time.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Rootbeer

[SusanM]

59 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Most likely, the calls were refused because the lawyer wasn't available to talk at that time.

Now hold on a minute there.  Are you going to try and convince us that the world does not in fact revolve around Josh Duggar?  This will come as a huge shock to him if so.

[iwantcookies]

Since we are on page 711…

Maybe Anna tells Josh what she gets at 7 eleven daily.

[Gemma Violet]

19 hours ago, Namaste said:

According to WOACB, Josh’s lawyers have declined two collect calls from him. Is it typical for lawyers to decline calls from their client?  TYIA. 

I read somewhere that it may be because the calls are recorded.  The lawyers probably will only talk with him in person.  Notice that the lawyers are not calling Josh--Josh is calling the lawyers.  Maybe the lawyers are afraid Josh will say something on the phone that can be used against him on appeal or in sentencing.  Who knows--they may have specifically instructed him to not call them from prison and yet he does what he wants. 

[Rootbeer]

9 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

I read somewhere that it may be because the calls are recorded.  The lawyers probably will only talk with him in person.  Notice that the lawyers are not calling Josh--Josh is calling the lawyers.  Maybe the lawyers are afraid Josh will say something on the phone that can be used against him on appeal or in sentencing.  Who knows--they may have specifically instructed him to not call them from prison and yet he does what he wants. 

I'm pretty sure that the Washington County jail where Josh is located does not allow incoming calls for inmates.  They've got capacity for 700+ prisoners and it wouldn't be practical.

I believe that some of the lawyers on this thread have said that it is not likely that Josh' phone calls are being monitored.  Once again, there are 700 other prisoners in the jail.  Josh has already been convicted with a pretty airtight case.  The odds that he would say anything that would lead to more charges against him on a phone call are pretty slim and the county doesn't have the time or money for that sort of surveillance.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Rootbeer

[GeeGolly]

27 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

I read somewhere that it may be because the calls are recorded.  The lawyers probably will only talk with him in person.  Notice that the lawyers are not calling Josh--Josh is calling the lawyers.  Maybe the lawyers are afraid Josh will say something on the phone that can be used against him on appeal or in sentencing.  Who knows--they may have specifically instructed him to not call them from prison and yet he does what he wants. 

Even while in jail a felon maintains his client/attorney privilege, so while jail phone calls are recorded, the calls with attorneys can't be monitored. And even if they did mistakenly hear something, it would never be allowed in the court room. 

I'm guessing his attorneys are more worried about what Josh will say in a casual phone call. That is, if they really give a shit at this point.

Edited January 18, 2022 by GeeGolly

[Gemma Violet]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Even while in jail a felon maintains his client/attorney privilege, so while jail phone calls are recorded, the calls with attorneys can't be monitored. And even if they did mistakenly hear something, it would never be allowed in the court room. 

Right, good point.  That didn't occur to me.