Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[3 is enough]

In their cult the husband-wife relationship trumps parent-child relationships so if this is true it is hardly a surprise.  
That said, if Anna really chose Josh over the kids she does deserve to lose custody, but then what will happen to those poor innocent kids?
What a shit show.  I really feel for the M kids.  They don’t deserve any of this mess.

[zenme]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

Is it too soon for a "I'm as tired as Jana watching someone else's kids" joke? 

But yeah I feel pretty spent after this week. 

Well, I would certainly use the “Cinderella defense.”

[Gweilo]

28 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

In their cult the husband-wife relationship trumps parent-child relationships so if this is true it is hardly a surprise.  
That said, if Anna really chose Josh over the kids she does deserve to lose custody, but then what will happen to those poor innocent kids?
What a shit show.  I really feel for the M kids.  They don’t deserve any of this mess.

I would guess that if Anna lost custody of her children, they would go to JB and Michelle as grandparents? Don't think the Keller's want them.

And JB and Michelle got Tyler, so.... 

[GeeGolly]

If I'm remembering JD's TH from after the first two scandals, he was pissed at Josh because they all came forward saying what Josh had done was resolved years ago and the family had moved on. Meanwhile Josh was on Ashley Madison. JD felt personally betrayed because Josh allowed them to go to bat for him when Josh was his old dog self, behaving badly.

[3 is enough]

5 minutes ago, Gweilo said:

I would guess that if Anna lost custody of her children, they would go to JB and Michelle as grandparents? Don't think the Keller's want them.

And JB and Michelle got Tyler, so.... 

I would wonder if the fact that JB and Michelle are in their late 50’s, plus Josh’s conviction might change things.  We are talking about 7 kids here, including an infant and a toddler. Recent events would certainly be taken into account and at the very least I would hope a thorough CPS investigation would be called for before custody was awarded.  
Of course this is all just speculation at this point.  

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, mynextmistake said:

WOACB is now saying that Anna is being investigated for child abandonment and might lose the kids. They claim she was pressuring Josh to allow the whole family to move into the Reber’s place, and he told her no because he didn’t want his bond revoked. When she had to choose, she chose to be at the Rebers and left her kids with the Duggars. 

While I think Anna is a useless human being, and I think it’s possible her kids would be better off in a different home, I can’t imagine this is true? Leaving your kids with adult relatives isn’t abandonment unless you completely disappear, and I’m sure she went back to check on them sometimes.

Unless this is in some way tied to the Jana incident? Like Anna just dropped the kids off without talking to Jana first and Jana told the cops that when they showed up with whatever M kid got loose? This wouldn’t surprise me, actually. 

Wasn’t Josh living in essentially one room, or something like an efficiency apartment at the Rebers? How would they have managed 8 of them in there???

[Snow Fairy]

Did anyone comment on the tips on Pickles, regarding Josh and Anna?

[MsJamieDornan]

19 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Did anyone comment on the tips on Pickles, regarding Josh and Anna?

What? Spill it, lol

[graefin]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

Jessa and Joy both liked Jeremy's Instagram pos

Where do you see this? I looked at all the likes for his post and I don't see amy family members or adjacent there. 

[GeeGolly]

I feel the Dillards have the best overall statement, the Vuolos at least admitted guilt, JB & M exceeded my expectations and I feel the Seewalds floundered. 

I'm not defending (or liking) JB & M, but their statement felt the most real. I could feel their mixed bag of feelings in their statement. To me, their statement did not seem careful or calculated.

[Snow Fairy]

The post from Pickles

The two messages below came from a source last night after the jury decided to rest and finish deliberating the next day. I have heard from this source in the past and she seems reliable. This was a call for prayer apparently originating from Jeremy aimed at supporting the children of Jim Bob and Michelle. The children are facing "religious guilt", or as I would call it, spiritual abuse from their parents. Read on to see what I was told.

"So one of Jeremy's fellow minister students attending school with him is a family friend of ours. Anyhow, they asked our family to pray for the siblings of Josh Duggar tonight. *********** told us they are being suppressed with religious guilt. Basically, they are being told if they don't support him Gods wrath will fall on them. A divided house will fall caused by their sin of not trusting God to be the judge. "

"Our son who has worked around the Duggars/Bates families during humanitarian efforts asked him a question. The question was is the situation the same as the ***********. He hesitated and then said yes. So it's our understanding that the siblings will lose access to younger siblings, funds, and property investments. We were told 2 siblings were not supporting their dads narrative and are currently cut off. He didn't mention which two."

Later she responded back to some of my questions.

"Well the Duggar family prayer last night was if guilty happened it was now time for Josh to become like the Apostle Paul in prison. This is how it was presented to his children. Supposedly, Jim Bob will go with this narrative and seek an appeal. This is coming from a family member is what we were told this morning at 7 am. In a few days family members will start speaking aloud. It will be interesting to see. ********* they asked us to continue to pray for the siblings and now grandchildren because they are about to become severely oppressed."

Become like Apostle Paul in prison? Could this be why Josh smiled for the mugshot. To show his children that he will be as godly as persecuted St. Paul. Is he sending the message that he's innocent and will fight those who are trying to keep a Christian down?

Josh will be in prison for many years but I am concerned about what bunk the siblings and Josh's kids are being told that not only is blatant spiritual abuse but emotional abuse. This false narrative being fed to them by an unstable patriarch (Jim Bob) is either going to drive them away from their family forever, which might not be a bad thing, or radicalize them in the future. I fear the damage Jim Bob will continue to do to the children. He has already destroyed Josh's life by not getting Josh professional help when he was a young teen, now he's out to radicalize his youngest children and grandchildren into believing a false narrative based on delusional nonsense.

I don't think Jim Bob and Michelle will learn anything from their son being taken away. They will keep pushing their Christian persecution nonsense and possibly ruin a few more kids' lives in the process.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Snow Fairy

[SMama]

9 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Right. At Silver Dollar City, IIRC. I forget which Lost Girl was the recipient of Anna's wrath. 

It happened when they visited Jinger. Even when the pedophile worked in DC and they had only 3 kids there were pictures of Jana and Jinger ( his freaking CSA victim) “visiting” them, aka baby sitting the Ms. It’s time for Anna to take care of her own kids. 

[EllaWycliffe]

Is Josh going away for a long time? I mean, I understand that he was found guilty and could be sentenced to up to 20 years.... but is that really likely, or is it possible he will get a lesser sentence?

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Is Josh going away for a long time? I mean, I understand that he was found guilty and could be sentenced to up to 20 years.... but is that really likely, or is it possible he will get a lesser sentence?

Minimum is 5. Most are speculating 12-15 years. 

[Minivanessa]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If I'm remembering JD's TH from after the first two scandals, he was pissed at Josh because they all came forward saying what Josh had done was resolved years ago and the family had moved on. Meanwhile Josh was on Ashley Madison. JD felt personally betrayed because Josh allowed them to go to bat for him when Josh was his old dog self, behaving badly.

I remember it that way. I also remember the language was vague as to what exact bad things Josh had done. I think that JD would have been hesitant to go on camera to talk even in vague terms about the molestations - of his own sisters, FFS. But he could talk about Josh's bad behavior as an adult.

I searched the "likes" for both Jeremy's and Jinger's Insta posts about the verdict, and didn't find Jessa or Joy among them, but I wouldn't rule it out because (1) maybe I didn't search correctly or (2) maybe they un-liked the post after realizing they were being talked about. Here's a screenshot of what Jase posted, in a story so it will not be on much longer:

Apologies if this image has been posted elsewhere - things are moving fast here. I did look back a few pages and didn't see it.

I have read elsewhere that the statement "For Josh, we fear for his soul" is dynamite in the evangelical world. A SERIOUS burn. The reason is, that they believe that once you're saved then your soul will be okay no matter what evil you do in the world. For them to fear for Josh's soul implies that they doubt he was ever really saved, or something else, but at any rate "fearing for his soul" puts him in a category outside the saved circle of Christians who worship the correct Jesus. 

If true? Wow.

[quarks]

Multiple Redditors got screenshots of the "liked by" from various Duggar family members on Jeremy's post. Reddit is also kinda overwhelming right now between YAY JOSH IS GOING TO JAIL and the Jana stuff, so it's hard to find stuff, but here's a screenshot of Jessa liking Jeremy's post:

 

 

A Tumblr user grabbed more, including likes from Claire and Joy:

https://countingandsnarkingon.tumblr.com/post/670240314972356608/these-are-all-the-duggars-who-have-liked-the

 

[quarks]

5 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I would wonder if the fact that JB and Michelle are in their late 50’s, plus Josh’s conviction might change things.  We are talking about 7 kids here, including an infant and a toddler. Recent events would certainly be taken into account and at the very least I would hope a thorough CPS investigation would be called for before custody was awarded.  
Of course this is all just speculation at this point.  

I don't think JB and Michelle's ages will matter that much - a couple of my neighbors in their late 50s/early 60s took temporary custody of their grandkids for a couple of years. The conviction might not either - after all, they aren't the ones in jail.

Also, the goal will probably be to keep the kids together if possible, and I don't know if any of the other relatives have the immediate available space for seven more children in a group. Definitely not JD/Abbie or Jessa/Bin. Not to mention that most of them either have kids of their own or are expecting to have kids of their own.

[EllaWycliffe]

Can't Anna just get a job or go on welfare?

I kid but only a little, what do people who aren't white religious cultists do when a spouse goes to jail?

Would it really be so hard for Jimbob and Michelle? Don't they still have a few "blessings" of their own that they can dump all the chores off onto? If I were a sibling of Josh's, I would bristle at being guilted into raising his children after JB and Michelle demanded I worship him as the eldest son.

[JennyMominFL]

8 hours ago, quarks said:

  

Jessa and Joy both liked Jeremy's Instagram post, and as awful as Jeremy is on all levels, I don't think he would have posted that in Jinger's name without running it by her; it directly attacked her parents, and she's said she's close to her mother.

So that's posts from Jill, Jinger/Jeremy, and Jason condemning Josh, and Jessa and Joy approving these posts, and Hillary specifically asking people to pray for Anna - not Josh - and defending Justin - not Josh.

Add in the way that most of the adult Duggarlings who don't live at home pointedly avoided the entire trial and have abstained from saying anything positive about Josh, and I'm just not seeing much, if any, support for Josh or a believe that he's being persecuted among the adult Duggarlings. 

Well. josh likes to confess. Maybe he confessed and they know hes a monster

[graefin]

45 minutes ago, quarks said:

Multiple Redditors got screenshots of the "liked by" from various Duggar family members on Jeremy's post. Reddit is also kinda overwhelming right now between YAY JOSH IS GOING TO JAIL and the Jana stuff, so it's hard to find stuff, but here's a screenshot of Jessa liking Jeremy's post:

 

 

A Tumblr user grabbed more, including likes from Claire and Joy:

https://countingandsnarkingon.tumblr.com/post/670240314972356608/these-are-all-the-duggars-who-have-liked-the

 

Interesting, because they're all gone now--I wonder if of their own volition or otherwise.

[smittykins]

9 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

If a child is hungry, it’s the parents’ fault for not making enough money. 

“If you can’t feed ‘em, don’t breed ‘em.”

And the mother “should’ve kept her legs closed.”  The never tell men to “keep it in your pants.”

[Tuxcat]

8 minutes ago, graefin said:

Interesting, because they're all gone now--I wonder if of their own volition or otherwise.

You have to follow them to see it. I just followed each of the girls. Jessa, Jill and Joy all liked Jinger's post. They all also liked Jeremy's post. (same posts but each girl liked on Jerremy's page and on Jingers page)

Edited December 11, 2021 by Tuxcat

[EllaWycliffe]

Maybe its less about Josh being guilty, to the siblings, and more about Josh fucking up the TV gravy train over and over until he screws them all. I'd be happy to, guilty or not, if a sibling who routinely made my life a nightmare was removed because he was finally caught out by someone that isn't mommy and daddy making excuses for him.

[Iguessnot]

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

WOACB is now saying that Anna is being investigated for child abandonment and might lose the kids. They claim she was pressuring Josh to allow the whole family to move into the Reber’s place, and he told her no because he didn’t want his bond revoked. When she had to choose, she chose to be at the Rebers and left her kids with the Duggars. 

While I think Anna is a useless human being, and I think it’s possible her kids would be better off in a different home, I can’t imagine this is true? Leaving your kids with adult relatives isn’t abandonment unless you completely disappear, and I’m sure she went back to check on them sometimes.

Unless this is in some way tied to the Jana incident? Like Anna just dropped the kids off without talking to Jana first and Jana told the cops that when they showed up with whatever M kid got loose? This wouldn’t surprise me, actually. 

I don't know what the living situation was for Anna and her kids while Josh was detained up until the trial, but they sure weren't abandoned. By their logic, a person could be charged with abandonment if they were laid up in the hospital or away for military duty. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Jessa, Joy and Jill liked Jingers post. 

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, graefin said:

Where do you see this? I looked at all the likes for his post and I don't see amy family members or adjacent there. 

I think some people take SM “likes” much too seriously. I don’t put too much thought into “liking” any post and often just click “like” because the poster is a friend or family member 🤷‍♀️

[GeeGolly]

Not that I think there is anything unusual going on, but lets hope if anything is up with the M & Ms, the system doesn't fail them too.

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

I remember it that way. I also remember the language was vague as to what exact bad things Josh had done. I think that JD would have been hesitant to go on camera to talk even in vague terms about the molestations - of his own sisters, FFS. But he could talk about Josh's bad behavior as an adult.

I searched the "likes" for both Jeremy's and Jinger's Insta posts about the verdict, and didn't find Jessa or Joy among them, but I wouldn't rule it out because (1) maybe I didn't search correctly or (2) maybe they un-liked the post after realizing they were being talked about. Here's a screenshot of what Jase posted, in a story so it will not be on much longer:

Apologies if this image has been posted elsewhere - things are moving fast here. I did look back a few pages and didn't see it.

I have read elsewhere that the statement "For Josh, we fear for his soul" is dynamite in the evangelical world. A SERIOUS burn. The reason is, that they believe that once you're saved then your soul will be okay no matter what evil you do in the world. For them to fear for Josh's soul implies that they doubt he was ever really saved, or something else, but at any rate "fearing for his soul" puts him in a category outside the saved circle of Christians who worship the correct Jesus. 

If true? Wow.

I just read this and want to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.

[merylinkid]

6 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

I would wonder if the fact that JB and Michelle are in their late 50’s, plus Josh’s conviction might change things.  We are talking about 7 kids here, including an infant and a toddler. Recent events would certainly be taken into account and at the very least I would hope a thorough CPS investigation would be called for before custody was awarded.  
Of course this is all just speculation at this point.  

CPS will definitely consider that their son was convicted of possessing child porn and there was credible testimony that molestation of his sisters (not just curious touching) went on under their roof and they did not take it seriously.    Tyler was older when he came to them.   But they are not going to leave small children in that situation where lack of supervision or action when something does happen is a HUGE possibility.   

I also don't see Anna as having a problem with cramming all of them into one room.   Remember how she grew up.   Tight living quarters is normal to her.   As long as "the family is all together, that's all that matters."

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

I just read this and want to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.

The ridiculousness of what? The theology? Social media likes? My post?

[Cinnabon]

52 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Can't Anna just get a job or go on welfare?

I kid but only a little, what do people who aren't white religious cultists do when a spouse goes to jail?

Would it really be so hard for Jimbob and Michelle? Don't they still have a few "blessings" of their own that they can dump all the chores off onto? If I were a sibling of Josh's, I would bristle at being guilted into raising his children after JB and Michelle demanded I worship him as the eldest son.

Yes, she could. JB would likely never take housing away from them , so that’s a huge expense. She would certainly qualify (depending on her assets) for TANF, SNAP, Medicaid, etc and without having to pay for housing, that would leave her a decent chunk of money. In many states, TANF recipients can also receive free job training or college courses. Anna wouldn’t be expected to work or attend class for some time because she has a newborn right now.

38 minutes ago, smittykins said:

“If you can’t feed ‘em, don’t breed ‘em.”

And the mother “should’ve kept her legs closed.”  The never tell men to “keep it in your pants.”

Yet they still support forced birth. They want it both ways and in the meantime, so many kids suffer.

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

CPS will definitely consider that their son was convicted of possessing child porn and there was credible testimony that molestation of his sisters (not just curious touching) went on under their roof and they did not take it seriously.    Tyler was older when he came to them.   But they are not going to leave small children in that situation where lack of supervision or action when something does happen is a HUGE possibility.   

I also don't see Anna as having a problem with cramming all of them into one room.   Remember how she grew up.   Tight living quarters is normal to her.   As long as "the family is all together, that's all that matters."

There are good reasons why child care facilities require one adult per 6-7 (?) children. It becomes impossible to keep an eye on them all and keep them safe when there is only one adult watching multiple kids. CPS will definitely notice that.

[Cinnabon]

9 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

The ridiculousness of what? The theology? Social media likes? My post?

All of the “fearing for his soul,” not being saved, the “correct” Jesus, etc.   Certainly not your post.

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

All of the “fearing for his soul,” not being saved, the “correct” Jesus, etc.   Certainly not your post.

I hoped that was what you meant. Thanks. 🙂

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

I don't think JB and Michelle's ages will matter that much - a couple of my neighbors in their late 50s/early 60s took temporary custody of their grandkids for a couple of years. The conviction might not either - after all, they aren't the ones in jail.

Also, the goal will probably be to keep the kids together if possible, and I don't know if any of the other relatives have the immediate available space for seven more children in a group. Definitely not JD/Abbie or Jessa/Bin. Not to mention that most of them either have kids of their own or are expecting to have kids of their own.

I agree. I think it would be very likely the M & Ms would be placed with JB & M. The were seen as a good placement for Tyler. There has been no known abuse in the household since DCF closed the case after becoming aware of the molestations. And the M & Ms are very comfortable there.

With that said, I really see no indication Anna is at risk of losing her kids.

[EllaWycliffe]

Agree that Anna doesn't seem likely to lose the kids any time soon. 

[Cinnabon]

Just now, EllaWycliffe said:

Agree that Anna doesn't seem likely to lose the kids any time soon. 

Same. CPS involvement rarely means the kids will be taken away. They  offer supportive services.

[SusanM]

10 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

With that said, I really see no indication Anna is at risk of losing her kids.

If she is being investigated it may be connected more to what apparently has happened with Jana than it does with her possibly having moved in with Josh (I can't decide whether that was a good thing for poor Mrs Reber or not).  Either way given Josh's conviction it's not surprising that the children would now be interviewed and that there would be supervision going forward.  

Which leads me to my Duggar question of the day: Josh will have to register as a sex offender - down the road, hopefully a long road - would he be able to live in the same house with children?

Edited December 11, 2021 by SusannahM

[quarks]

4 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I think some people take SM “likes” much too seriously. I don’t put too much thought into “liking” any post and often just click “like” because the poster is a friend or family member 🤷‍♀️

I think that's true in general.

But for a post like this, when they are all fully aware that everything they do is scrutinized, yeah, I think we can read something into it.

I guess I have a counter question here: why is it so difficult to believe that at least some of the Duggarlings may genuinely not like Josh or at least be willing to accept that he's guilty?

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Yes, she could. JB would likely never take housing away from them , so that’s a huge expense. She would certainly qualify (depending on her assets) for TANF, SNAP, Medicaid, etc and without having to pay for housing, that would leave her a decent chunk of money. In many states, TANF recipients can also receive free job training or college courses. Anna wouldn’t be expected to work or attend class for some time because she has a newborn right now.

Agreed on the housing.

I'm less sure about the social welfare programs.

Here, for example, is the FAQ page for TAF in Arkansas:

https://www.dws.arkansas.gov/programs/temporary-assistance-for-needy-families/tanf-frequently-asked-questions/

Notable factors:

1. This covers only 24 months.

2. It does have a work requirement. Applicants must either be employed, looking for employment, or engaged in "approved activities that focus on development of skills and experience that lead directly to employment." Nothing on this page notes the age of the children involved. The latest newborn is now about 7, 8 weeks old - past the maternity leave time for many - so, yeah, that would not excuse her from the work requirements.

3. The program considers assets, income and housing expenses when reviewing applications; having free housing might even count against Anna. 

Nothing against SNAP/EBT, but a) these programs only cover food, b) they have strict requirements on what food, c) are not designed to and do not cover all basic food costs. It's not going to be a decent chunk of money. Again, directly from the state webpage:

"Most households must spend some of their own money along with their SNAP benefits to buy the food they need."

More info here:

https://www.dws.arkansas.gov/employers/snap-and-tea-assistance/

So even if she qualifies for these programs and can meet the work requirements, I don't think it's going to be a decent chunk of money.

The Child Tax Credit program, which could be a decent chunk of money, again generally goes to working parents. She might qualify now since Josh was presumably working up until April 2021, but if she doesn't get a job relatively soon, she might not continue to qualify for that program either. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

She might qualify now since Josh was presumably working up until April 2021

I've personally never seen any indication Josh has worked since the raid in November 2019. Now, they may have had him doing something they didn't advertise, but it wouldn't surprise me if they've not even pretended he had a job in the family business since then. 

[quarks]

8 minutes ago, Zella said:

I've personally never seen any indication Josh has worked since the raid in November 2019. Now, they may have had him doing something they didn't advertise, but it wouldn't surprise me if they've not even pretended he had a job in the family business since then. 

(nods)

You might very well be correct. In which case, I don't think she qualifies for that program, either.

What a mess.

What was that again about Josh being a good provider, Anna?

[Cinnabon]

12 minutes ago, quarks said:

I think that's true in general.

But for a post like this, when they are all fully aware that everything they do is scrutinized, yeah, I think we can read something into it.

I guess I have a counter question here: why is it so difficult to believe that at least some of the Duggarlings may genuinely not like Josh or at least be willing to accept that he's guilty?

Agreed on the housing.

I'm less sure about the social welfare programs.

Here, for example, is the FAQ page for TAF in Arkansas:

https://www.dws.arkansas.gov/programs/temporary-assistance-for-needy-families/tanf-frequently-asked-questions/

Notable factors:

1. This covers only 24 months.

2. It does have a work requirement. Applicants must either be employed, looking for employment, or engaged in "approved activities that focus on development of skills and experience that lead directly to employment." Nothing on this page notes the age of the children involved. The latest newborn is now about 7, 8 weeks old - past the maternity leave time for many - so, yeah, that would not excuse her from the work requirements.

3. The program considers assets, income and housing expenses when reviewing applications; having free housing might even count against Anna. 

Nothing against SNAP/EBT, but a) these programs only cover food, b) they have strict requirements on what food, c) are not designed to and do not cover all basic food costs. It's not going to be a decent chunk of money. Again, directly from the state webpage:

"Most households must spend some of their own money along with their SNAP benefits to buy the food they need."

More info here:

https://www.dws.arkansas.gov/employers/snap-and-tea-assistance/

So even if she qualifies for these programs and can meet the work requirements, I don't think it's going to be a decent chunk of money.

The Child Tax Credit program, which could be a decent chunk of money, again generally goes to working parents. She might qualify now since Josh was presumably working up until April 2021, but if she doesn't get a job relatively soon, she might not continue to qualify for that program either. 

SNAP generally allows most food. It’s WIC that has very specific rules on which foods are included. A lot of states do allow new mothers and some others to get by without working, even though the rules say otherwise. But it sounds like Arkansas gives fewer benefits than many other states. 

[madpsych78]

I've heard that some of the siblings and in-laws are becoming frustrated with Anna, while simultaneously praying for her and the M children. No, Anna did not download CSAM and she probably was kept out of the loop for a bunch of things that Josh did. But I still just find it reprehensible that she would essentially choose Josh over her children. I heard and read in some spots that Anna was trying to have the kids spend the night with Josh at the Rebers. It was actually Josh who refused this arrangement because he didn't want to violate his bond (one of the few fair things he did). That was what led to Anna spending the nights and spending all her time with Josh while at the Rebers. 

I'm curious as to exactly how much time she spent at the Rebers - like was it 24/7? Or did she see the kids during the day and Josh at night? That could provide some clue as to the "abandonment" issue. And maybe the abandonment issue is not with all of the M kids but definitely the newborn and toddler at least. 

[Zella]

One of the reasons I think the "Anna is being investigated for child abandonment" narrative is false (beyond what being described not sounding like child abandonment in the legal sense) is that I really cannot figure out how her spending the night with the kids is a technical violation of the terms of his bond. Would it be in poor judgment? Yes. But the terms of the bond were unlimited time with his own kids, as long as Anna was present. I don't see how them all spending the night would constitute a violation of those terms. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Zella

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If I'm remembering JD's TH from after the first two scandals, he was pissed at Josh because they all came forward saying what Josh had done was resolved years ago and the family had moved on. Meanwhile Josh was on Ashley Madison. JD felt personally betrayed because Josh allowed them to go to bat for him when Josh was his old dog self, behaving badly.

I remember that about JD too. Also, from the first specials I saw starting with Jackson's birth in 2004- JD could not stand Josh. JD didnt say a lot, but I could tell they were not friends, just brothers. Which given they were the two oldest male children in the household, you would think they would hang out a lot. NONE of the older kids liked Josh at all. 

I do not think Josh's older siblings cared more about him cheating on Anna than assaulting his sisters. I think they had been told to "forgive" him, and when the assaults became public they were encouraged to go to bat for him, when DUMB ASS (and evil) Josh knew he was fucking up and brining more disgrace upon the family with his Ashley Madison account but he let them get up and defend him AGAIN, I think for many of the older kids that was the last straw regarding having an emotional closeness to Josh (if they still did).

What did Jason say about Josh's conviction? I have not seen. 

[Minivanessa]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

What did Jason say about Josh's conviction? I have not seen. 

He put up an Instastory which was a screenshot of Jeremy's statement about Josh's conviction, with the comment "Well said, @Jeremy Vuolo" - I posted a screenshot of it somewhere around here this morning. 

[cmr2014]

9 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

WOACB is now saying that Anna is being investigated for child abandonment and might lose the kids. They claim she was pressuring Josh to allow the whole family to move into the Reber’s place, and he told her no because he didn’t want his bond revoked. When she had to choose, she chose to be at the Rebers and left her kids with the Duggars. 

While I think Anna is a useless human being, and I think it’s possible her kids would be better off in a different home, I can’t imagine this is true? Leaving your kids with adult relatives isn’t abandonment unless you completely disappear, and I’m sure she went back to check on them sometimes.

Unless this is in some way tied to the Jana incident? Like Anna just dropped the kids off without talking to Jana first and Jana told the cops that when they showed up with whatever M kid got loose? This wouldn’t surprise me, actually. 

CPS is very reluctant to take children away from their parents, and I doubt very seriously that Anna will lose custody.

What will likely happen -- and what should (IMO) have happened a long time ago -- is that the family will be under supervision. She may be required to send the children to school. They may receive actual medical care, and see real counselors to process their trauma.

I think that the Jana incident is related in the sense that the TTH is probably on their radar now. There was an incident a few years back where they refused to let CPS into the house, and I don't think that's going to be an option for them going forward.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, cmr2014 said:

There was an incident a few years back where they refused to let CPS into the house,

I vaguely remember that. If I'm not mistaken, didn't it coincide with the reveal about the molestations so about 6 years ago? 

[galaxygirl76]

What are the odds that Anna packs up the kids and moves to whichever prison Josh ends up at? 

[cmr2014]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I vaguely remember that. If I'm not mistaken, didn't it coincide with the reveal about the molestations so about 6 years ago? 

I just googled it. It was 2015, so you're right.