Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Reddit is saying that Jill and Jed! are on the witness list.

Do they say why they think so? Sometimes they can be pretty good sleuths and other times they are way off. Just curious if this is them speculating or not. 

[galaxygirl76]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Do they say why they think so? Sometimes they can be pretty good sleuths and other times they are way off. Just curious if this is them speculating or not. 

It was mentioned by people who are in the room where it happens during one of the breaks. They also said one of the in-laws made it pretty far into the selection process ad got dismissed because in-law.

Edited November 30, 2021 by galaxygirl76

[CandyCaneTree]

1 hour ago, dariafan said:

Does their Bible not have any scripture about not lying ?????

Their Bible is like a Chinese menu pick 1 from colum a and 2 from b.

[quarks]

A Reddit user is in the audience, taking notes. The highlight so far has been this:

"Juror 7: (OMG!) dismissed as he DAUGHTER is married to a Duggar boy (who could this be??) Judge was floored that prior screening didn't prevent this." *

The second noteworthy moment was this:

"Witness list was read to ask if any juror knew any of them. It was explained that these are POSSIBLE WITNESSES... not guaranteed to testify.

Of note:

Jim Holt Bobye Holt Jill (Duggar) Dillard Jedidiah Duggar Calob Williams."

[iwantcookies]

https://people.com/tv/anna-duggar-attends-court-with-husband-josh-duggar-on-day-1-of-his-child-porn-trial/

[Zella]

12 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

It was mentioned by people who are in the room where it happens during one of the breaks. They also said one of the in-laws made it pretty far into the selection process ad got dismissed because in-law.

I do remember someone on there talking about talking time off to attend the trial. I bet that's her! 

[iwantcookies]

Anna with the brown shoes 🙄

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, iwantcookies said:

Anna looks smug behind the mask..... at least her eyes do. 

[iwantcookies]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10258697/Josh-Duggar-arrives-court-day-one-child-pornography-trial.html

[ozziemom]

If she’s going to wear dark dresses every day for the trial, I think Anna should have gotten dark shoes. I know the Duggars love brown shoes but the ones she’s been wearing don’t really go with the rest of her outfits. Lol I guess she’s got bigger things to worry about.

[iwantcookies]

5 minutes ago, quarks said:

A Reddit user is in the audience, taking notes. The highlight so far has been this:

"Juror 7: (OMG!) dismissed as he DAUGHTER is married to a Duggar boy (who could this be??) Judge was floored that prior screening didn't prevent this." *

The second noteworthy moment was this:

"Witness list was read to ask if any juror knew any of them. It was explained that these are POSSIBLE WITNESSES... not guaranteed to testify.

Of note:

Jim Holt Bobye Holt Jill (Duggar) Dillard Jedidiah Duggar Calob Williams."

It is not Hilary Spivey 😂

 

[BitterApple]

Wait a minute, so one of the daughters-in-law was part of the jury pool? What the actual fuck?! You mean to tell me someone with the last name DUGGAR wasn't automatically excluded?!

[galaxygirl76]

Just now, BitterApple said:

Wait a minute, so one of the daughters-in-law was part of the jury pool? What the actual fuck?! You mean to tell me someone with the last name DUGGAR wasn't automatically excluded?!

No, they are saying it's a parent of a daughter-in-law. Reddit has it narrowed down to Katey or Kendra.

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Wait a minute, so one of the daughters-in-law was part of the jury pool? What the actual fuck?! You mean to tell me someone with the last name DUGGAR wasn't automatically excluded?!

No, one of the FILs was. He said his daughter was married to a Duggar.

[BitterApple]

1 minute ago, galaxygirl76 said:

No, they are saying it's a parent of a daughter-in-law. Reddit has it narrowed down to Katey or Kendra.

Okay, thank you. I must've misread. 

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, galaxygirl76 said:

No, they are saying it's a parent of a daughter-in-law. Reddit has it narrowed down to Katey or Kendra.

How did they get through? Weren't the Duggars part of the Caldwell church? And Katey's husband is possibly on the witness list? What questions were they asked that didn't screen them out?

[Dianaofthehunt]

Anna’s taking her knees out for a rare romp in that dress! I guess the defense team wants her to look as mainstream as possible.

[all fall down]

9 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Wait a minute, so one of the daughters-in-law was part of the jury pool? What the actual fuck?! You mean to tell me someone with the last name DUGGAR wasn't automatically excluded?!

I think it was the parent of one of the daughters-in-law.

So that could be the parent of Anna, Abbie, Kendra, Lauren, Katelyn, or Claire. 

We know it's not Anna or Claire's parent, as they don't live in AR.

I'm not sure where Abbie, Kendra, Lauren, Katelyn's parents live. I think some of them are in AR, so it must have been one of them. 

(oops i see this was already answered!) Threads are moving fast today. How am I supposed to get any work done?? LOL

Edited November 30, 2021 by christine falls

[hathorlive]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

There is no confidentiality for clergy when it comes to the abuse of children or other dependent individuals.  If Bobye is a minister, then she is also a mandated reporter, as is her husband.  That means, that anytime they receive information about harm to a child, they are legally obligated to report it.  Both Bobye and Jim could've been charged with failure to report CSA back before the statute of limitations ran out on Josh's past crimes.  

So, in a way, the defense, in claiming privilege now, are ignoring the fact that, if they are considered clergy, then they broke the law when they didn't report back when they first heard about it in 2003.    I think Josh' lawyers are claiming that they're not mandated reporters for the images of CSA charges that Josh now faces since they didn't counsel him about that; but they want to ignore the part where they should've stepped up years ago.  They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Actually, Emily Lawyer girl just pointed out that Arkansas's mandatory reporting law states this:

Any clergy member, which includes ministers, priests, rabbis, accredited Christian Science practitioners, or other similar functionaries of a religious organization or a person reasonably believed to be so by the person consulting him or her;

• Except to the extent that the clergy member has acquired knowledge of the suspected child maltreatment through communication required to be kept confidential pursuant to the religious discipline of the relevant denomination or faith or received the knowledge of the suspected child maltreatment from the alleged offender in the context of a statement of admission.

So if Josh told BobYE, who is deemed a member of the clergy, then she doesn't HAVE TO REPORT IT, because the suspect himself confided in her.  I guess if Jill told BobYE that Josh molested her, then she'd have to report it.  

I wonder if Jim Holt or JB were in the AR house when that bit of bullshit passed?

[StaceyNotStacie]

Is she going to have a different dress for every day of the trial?  Is she trying to become a fundy fashionista? 😩 

I feel bad for her kids. Even if the entire Duggar family tries to shield them from what is going on, people talk. Kids that they might encounter at church or at one of their summits might overhear something that their parents said and repeat it to them. Once this is over, their kids might be shunned by other families; would another family want their children playing or associating with one of Josh’s children, especially the boys out of fear that they could become just like their father as they grow older. I doubt other parents would want their kids to marry one of Josh’s kids out of fear that something could happen or just guilty by association. It’s just a sad situation overall. 

[BradandJanet]

Looks like Anna has acquired a new wardrobe in black for the trial courtesy of Jim Bob, I'm sure. Stay tuned for tomorrow's selection. 

 

 

[Rootbeer]

2 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Actually, Emily Lawyer girl just pointed out that Arkansas's mandatory reporting law states this:

Any clergy member, which includes ministers, priests, rabbis, accredited Christian Science practitioners, or other similar functionaries of a religious organization or a person reasonably believed to be so by the person consulting him or her;

• Except to the extent that the clergy member has acquired knowledge of the suspected child maltreatment through communication required to be kept confidential pursuant to the religious discipline of the relevant denomination or faith or received the knowledge of the suspected child maltreatment from the alleged offender in the context of a statement of admission.

So if Josh told BobYE, who is deemed a member of the clergy, then she doesn't HAVE TO REPORT IT, because the suspect himself confided in her.  I guess if Jill told BobYE that Josh molested her, then she'd have to report it.  

I wonder if Jim Holt or JB were in the AR house when that bit of bullshit passed?

Doesn't this mean information conveyed in a formal confession like the Catholic sacrament of penance?  'Religious discipline of the relevant denomination or faith' sounds like it has to be some sort of formalized confessional process which I am pretty sure the Duggars don't have.

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I feel bad for her kids. Even if the entire Duggar family tries to shield them from what is going on, people talk. Kids that they might encounter at church or at one of their summits might overhear something that their parents said and repeat it to them. Once this is over, their kids might be shunned by other families; would another family want their children playing or associating with one of Josh’s children, especially the boys out of fear that they could become just like their father as they grow older. I doubt other parents would want their kids to marry one of Josh’s kids out of fear that something could happen or just guilty by association. It’s just a sad situation overall. 

I feel bad for the kids but I don't think they will be shunned by that many people. How many of those fundies believe this is satan at work? Or equate this sin on the level of any other sin? 

[emmawoodhouse]

Did Judge Brooks rule on admitting the molestations into evidence? 

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Doesn't this mean information conveyed in a formal confession like the Catholic sacrament of penance?  'Religious discipline of the relevant denomination or faith' sounds like it has to be some sort of formalized confessional process which I am pretty sure the Duggars don't have.

The Duggars' argument will be that they don't have a church building or a designated confessional, that where ever you are, there you go.  There's no logic or reason to any of this.  Women have no role in church but now that they need to stop her from talking, she's clergy. I'd like to see her religious training, pay stubs, and church programs that note she's offering religious counseling. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

6 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I feel bad for the kids but I don't think they will be shunned by that many people. How many of those fundies believe this is satan at work? Or equate this sin on the level of any other sin? 

They might publicly support them to try not to rock the boat with their church or other friends, but what people say in public is a lot different than what is said behind closed doors. I could see people not saying anything bad while out in public, but telling their young children to stay clear of the Duggar kids, especially if there aren’t other kids around. At this point, as all of the grandchildren get older, I wonder if the married Duggars will limit the time their kids spend with Josh’s kids, especially the boys, just to protect their own children. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Stacey1014

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Okay, but it's still been known before she testified. I've talked about with people and used it as an example of Josh escalating for years, and even this weekend over on the Duggar snark subreddit, people were discussing it before Bobye testified. 

Edited to add: It's hard to find exact results with the trial, but there's articles where it's mentioned in early November. 

https://cafemom.com/entertainment/josh-duggar-assaults-trial/the-evidence-the-prosecution-plans-to-introduce-will-also-joshs-own

I was mistaken about what exactly was in the police report, and it may be a newer revelation only unveiled in earlier motions from this trial. But it wasn't freshly revealed in the testimony yesterday. 

I've known about it for years. I don't remember the exact source, but it's been common knowledge that Josh digitally raped his sister. I believe (other people and) I have mentioned it here, long before the CSAM charges. 

Jim Bob's behavior in court reminds me of so many pale, stale, male Christians I've known, including my uncle. They do have a certain "I'm king and I'm better than you" aura about them. 

[skatelady]

41 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Anna with the brown shoes 🙄

Not that I'm defending Anna or anything - because I really can't stand her - but her grip on Josh is much like my grip on my husband when we go to a funeral. Funerals are extremely stressful to me, to the point where I am often shaking & hyperventilating, and hanging on for dear life helps me redirect. I imagine she is under incredible stress right now - even if she believes 100% in his innocence - because of the publicity/shame/effect on her children. Perhaps she is just trying to.... not faint. 

Nah. She's a pompous ass. 

[Dimi1]

5 minutes ago, Heathen said:

I've known about it for years. I don't remember the exact source, but it's been common knowledge that Josh digitally raped his sister. I believe (other people and) I have mentioned it here, long before the CSAM charges. 

Jim Bob's behavior in court reminds me of so many pale, stale, male Christians I've known, including my uncle. They do have a certain "I'm king and I'm better than you" aura about them. 

which sister was this?...i know several of them were molested...

[Boston]

3 hours ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Just remember that one family member has said that this happens to all families.  Fuck the victims the parents only care about protecting the golden first born dick. Fuck all of the non important kids. 

Fuck all of them.  This does NOT HAPPEN TO ALL FAMILIES.  Just screwed up-fundie-dysfunctional ones.  (I had 3 brothers and this didn't HAPPEN in our family).  How dare they not protect those girls.  Every time i read about this I want to vomit.

[emmawoodhouse]

7 minutes ago, Heathen said:

I've known about it for years. I don't remember the exact source, but it's been common knowledge that Josh digitally raped his sister. I believe (other people and) I have mentioned it here, long before the CSAM charges. 

Jim Bob's behavior in court reminds me of so many pale, stale, male Christians I've known, including my uncle. They do have a certain "I'm king and I'm better than you" aura about them. 

Pretty sure that the digital penetration information came out in the police report. 

[skatelady]

22 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I feel bad for her kids. Even if the entire Duggar family tries to shield them from what is going on, people talk. Kids that they might encounter at church or at one of their summits might overhear something that their parents said and repeat it to them. Once this is over, their kids might be shunned by other families; would another family want their children playing or associating with one of Josh’s children, especially the boys out of fear that they could become just like their father as they grow older. I doubt other parents would want their kids to marry one of Josh’s kids out of fear that something could happen or just guilty by association. It’s just a sad situation overall. 

And possibly the girls as well, since people may fear they have been.... tainted..... by their father. (I'm not speculating about that, I'm saying that others might speculate. I mean, this is a culture in which adoption is discouraged due to possible "sins of the father" or some such nonsense). 

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

which sister was this?...i know several of them were molested...

Joy. She was sitting on his lap while he read a story.

[Heathen]

4 minutes ago, Dimi1 said:

which sister was this?...i know several of them were molested...

I believe Joy was the sister who was digitally raped. I'm pretty sure the police report accounts of it that came out in 2015 matched what Bobye Holt said in court. 

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Pretty sure that the digital penetration information came out in the police report. 

That's what I thought, but I'm not 100% sure so I won't say it. 

[coconspirator]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Joy. She was sitting on his lap while he read a story.

The fact that Jim Bob and Michelle saw nothing wrong with Joy being on his lap, after so many inappropriate and abusive behaviors Josh had demonstrated with her older siblings, is mind blowing. That does not demonstrate taking his behavior seriously and attempting to protect the kids. The younger children should have been off limits to him based simply on his past deeds. 

[CandyCaneTree]

1 minute ago, coconspirator said:

The fact that Jim Bob and Michelle saw nothing wrong with Joy being on his lap, after so many inappropriate and abusive behaviors Josh had demonstrated with her older siblings, is mind blowing. That does not demonstrate taking his behavior seriously and attempting to protect the kids. The younger children should have been off limits to him based simply on his past deeds. 

Why should the girls be off limits remember that males can't control their urges it's the females fault that the males can't control their urges.

[monkeypox]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

It's hard to find exact results with the trial, but there's articles where it's mentioned in early November. 

https://cafemom.com/entertainment/josh-duggar-assaults-trial/the-evidence-the-prosecution-plans-to-introduce-will-also-joshs-own

... it may be a newer revelation only unveiled in earlier motions from this trial. But it wasn't freshly revealed in the testimony yesterday. 

Thanks Zella. I hadn't seen the revelation before yesterday. I had long suspected it was true, but had never seen a confirmation, though I was looking. JB, Meech, and Josh are the absolute worst.

[ranchgirl]

I have also known for a long time that Josh did more than touch two sisters' breast while they were asleep.  I don't remember how I knew.  I thought it was the redacted police report but I guess not.  I also remember when the family did the Megan Kelly interview that I was yelling at the TV at why Megan wasn't asking them more questions.  Like why did they (Slim Bob and Mechille) get a telephone call when they were out to dinner that Josh had been caught yet again.  So, I am guessing I knew that by the police report too?  But Slim Bob just said the girls were sleeping and didn't know anything and that Josh came to them.  Lies.  

I also remember a time when the family said that Jill was the tattle-teller of the family.  Anyone else remember that?  When I read what Holt said in court yesterday of Josh saying a sister snitched on him, it made my skin crawl.  Did the family always hold that over Jill's head?

Also, by what Josh said to Holt just tells me that he never saw his part in what he was doing as wrong, but that he just got caught.  How dare he say that his sister tattled on him when he was molesting his baby sister.  He seemed upset that his sister told on him, not that what he was doing was evil.  

I cannot image having to be one of his sisters and living with him in that house for all those years following and watching their mom and dad glow when they talked about him.  

Edited November 30, 2021 by ranchgirl

[Future Cat Lady]

29 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I feel bad for the kids but I don't think they will be shunned by that many people. How many of those fundies believe this is satan at work? Or equate this sin on the level of any other sin? 

Exactly! No one was shunned when he molested kids, so I don't see anyone being shun now. They're the good kind of Christians so all is forgiven.

Anyone remember the convicted rapist who married the former Duggar's teacher? They had no problem wiht him.

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Why should the girls be off limits remember that males can't control their urges it's the females fault that the males can't control their urges.

The Duggars finally did institute a no girls in older brothers' laps sometime after the Joy incident.

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, coconspirator said:

The fact that Jim Bob and Michelle saw nothing wrong with Joy being on his lap, after so many inappropriate and abusive behaviors Josh had demonstrated with her older siblings, is mind blowing. That does not demonstrate taking his behavior seriously and attempting to protect the kids. The younger children should have been off limits to him based simply on his past deeds. 

He is the golden boy? He went to Jesus camp? It is the victim's fault? I wonder how they would have dealt with it if he molested (and I will say raped) one of his brothers? 

[coconspirator]

1 minute ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Why should the girls be off limits remember that males can't control their urges it's the females fault that the males can't control their urges.

I know, I know...fundie logic. I didn't factor that in to my thought process.  

 

The likelihood that he was caught the only time he attempted that specific act is slim to none, and that's sickening.

[Madtown]

Just now, ranchgirl said:

 I cannot image having to be one of his sisters and living with him in that house for all those years following and watching their mom and dad glow when they talked about him.  

Not only that, but for years after all this was found out, these girls wrote gushing posts on SM about how wonderful their parents were on birthdays and Mother's and Father's Day. Maybe they meant every word they said, maybe they were forced to write them.

I truly hope Josh is sent away. I know it won't be for 20 years or life(like every pedophile should get), but it better be something.

Anna, I don't ever need to see you walking into court showing support for your disgusting piece of shit husband ever again.

[CandyCaneTree]

37 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I feel bad for the kids but I don't think they will be shunned by that many people. How many of those fundies believe this is satan at work? Or equate this sin on the level of any other sin? 

I'll bet you that the fundies consider this sin the same as looking at playboy.  No harm no foul. 

[3 is enough]

If the molestations did indeed start when Josh was 12 then none of the sisters probably even had breasts yet.  Which leads me to think there was something more disgusting going on. 

Just saying...

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, CandyCaneTree said:

I'll bet you that the fundies consider this sin the same as looking at playboy.  No harm no foul. 

I think this brand of fundies believe that all sin is equal. 

[CandyCaneTree]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

I think this brand of fundies believe that all sin is equal. 

Knowing fundies myself they consider all sins equal. 

[libgirl2]

5 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

If the molestations did indeed start when Josh was 12 then none of the sisters probably even had breasts yet.  Which leads me to think there was something more disgusting going on. 

Just saying...

Yea, all the "he was curious". Curious would have been him getting caught with a Playboy! Or some model on a poster. 

[lascuba]

I'm not sure if the police reports explicitly stated that Josh digitally penetrated Joy, but it did at least say that he went under her skirt. During the Megyn Kelly interview, JB also said that Josh touched under the clothes a few times, "but only for a couple of seconds."

Edited November 30, 2021 by lascuba

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I'm not sure if the police reports explicitly stated that Josh digitally penetrated Joy, but it did at least say that he when under her skirt. During the Megyn Kelly interview, JB also said that Josh touched under the clothes a few times, "but only for a couple of seconds."

That makes it so much better, doesn't it?