Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Snow Fairy]

I saw a comment asking if JB could be Josh's molester.

But maybe someone from the church, early days?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

This line from the Reddit recap of the first witness made me giggle a little.  I think I was desperately looking for any reason not to wallow in sadness reading that darn thing.  The funny:

"Two buildings, a shed undergoing remodel and a metal building the size of a toll booth which they found out was the main office."  😃

Would you spend your hard-earned money at a shady and shoddy operation like that???

It wouldn't surprise me that the car lot was just a front to make it look like Josh was gainfully employed at something. It also wouldn't surprise me that he sold zero cars in all of his existence there. 

[ginger90]

So this couple has unsecured firearms, and minors coming to their home for piano lessons. I’m thinking THEY are now going to be on someone’s radar.

[Arkay]

1 minute ago, crazy8s said:

also they have 6 firearms and the bedroom he would have has an outdoor exit.......

from the cross exam 2nd witness recap

CX: Probation Officer Nguyen

Reavers have no criminal history

No minors reside at the Reaver home

Reavers said they would do whatever they needed to do to be Josh’s third-party custodians

“If the firearms were removed from the home and if the piano lessons cease, would that be a suitable third party residence?” “Quite possibly.” -Justin Gelfand looks forlorn-

In the 17 months Josh has been aware of the investigation, Josh has not left the country.

I bristle at the idea that anyone at all should have to forfeit their time, freedom to come and go, their means of earning a living, all to be a guardian for this jerk. Although I’d prefer family friends to do it rather than forcing Jana into the role, my deep preference is for them to march Josh into jail as of now and forever.

Oh, yeah, the Constitution. Okay he can appear in court for trial but not bailed out at all. 

[Lady Whistleup]

It's kind of comic that the lawyers called Mrs. Reaver to vouch for Josh to be released into her home.

"Do you want Josh in your home?"

Mrs. Reaver: "Hell no."

[crazy8s]

reddit has first witness for the defense - Mrs Reavers

jb called and asked her husband

Attended church them in 2015 when the sexual abuse allegations first came out, but wasn’t fully aware of them. Is aware of them now.

AUSA asks “Can you tell me what you know about the allegations?” Reaver pauses, is silent, and then says “Give me a minute.” Story objects, judge overrules.

“I don’t fully know everything but from my understanding there was some, uh, when he was younger, I’m not sure how old, maybe a teenager, that there was inappropriate touching of some of the minors.”

Was not aware that one of the minors was 5-years-old

“Does knowing that there was a 5 year old involved change your decision to serve as a third-party custodian?” “I’m looking at is as we are here to be as help, to the family, to Josh and Anna. To minister to them.”

Jim Bob called her husband and asked them to be the third party custodian because her husband and Jim Bob are good friends.

“Did you feel any pressure or obligation to serve as the third-party custodian?” “My husband has made the decision and I’m here to support that decision.”

More talk about ministry and serving others

If the conditions were violated she would alert the court before notifying her husband

Would not leave her adult daughter alone with Josh

“We don’t have internet-internet, our internet is in our phone, it’s like a hotspot. There’s no wifi. We don’t have cable. There is no hard wiring.” (side note: wtf?? It’s 2021)

Phones are password protected

Understands that if Josh is released to her home he could be there for 6 months.

Redirect of Maria Reaver:

[Tikichick]

They would secure their firearms in a bedroom closet?    And the probation officer testified that she thinks they possibly could be appropriate supervision?

IMO the level of detail and the amount of time they're spending taking testimony on the matter indicates the bar is very high for him to qualify for release, as it should be.   I'm starting to think it's possible Josh will be denied in no small part due to his diligent efforts of concealing his activities.   He was motivated and savvy enough to circumvent the monitoring software, use specific software to obfuscate his activities on the dark web and bifurcate his computer -- all in efforts to conceal and deceive, even from the watchful eyes of those closest to him.

I'm no longer wondering why Josiah and Lauren disappeared from SM.   They've been through it, I have no doubt.   Jinger and Jeremy's wildly gyrating changes of direction are no longer mysterious either.   Can't even snark on Jeremy's pomposity.   This has hit them hard too.   None of them deserve this.  

[emmawoodhouse]

6 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

It wouldn't surprise me that the car lot was just a front to make it look like Josh was gainfully employed at something. It also wouldn't surprise me that he sold zero cars in all of his existence there. 

The picture I posted had two. 😁

[MrsClaus]

Which of the siblings made public comments after the arrest?

[BitterApple]

Unsecured weapons and minors coming into the home, and this is where they want to stash Josh? You can't even make this shit up.

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

I'm no longer wondering why Josiah and Lauren disappeared from SM.   They've been through it, I have no doubt.   Jinger and Jeremy's wildly gyrating changes of direction are no longer mysterious either.   Can't even snark on Jeremy's pomposity.   This has hit them hard too.   None of them deserve this.  

Even Joy's dark bangs could have been to cover up bags under her eyes and other signs of stress. 

[Boston]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

The picture I posted had two. 😁

I'm looking to you for the truth word.. Who are the Reavers ?.. i thought i was in the loop but  maybe not.. Thanks

[RandomX]

1 hour ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Is it possible that he had a lot more than that but they're only focusing on the dates mentionned?

I find it hard to believe that they caught him the first time he did this.

I doubt it was his first time doing anything he’s been caught doing (molesting his sisters, Ashley Madison, now this).

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, MrsClaus said:

Which of the siblings made public comments after the arrest?

If social media counts as public, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger.

[crazy8s]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

Unsecured weapons and minors coming into the home, and this is where they want to stash Josh? You can't even make this shit up.

also the have no internet except

"We don’t have internet-internet, our internet is in our phone, it’s like a hotspot. There’s no wifi.

[JoanArc]

 Holy crap, this is like a criminal version of the aristocrats.  Just keeps getting worse. 

I’m not surprised he figured out how to get around covenant eyes. It’s not that sophisticated. And it’s not too terribly difficult to create another drive partition or boot up from other media to load an alternate operating system on a computer and get away Scott free. I wonder how Anna feels about those reports now?

[BitterApple]

Just now, crazy8s said:

also the have no internet except

"We don’t have internet-internet, our internet is in our phone, it’s like a hotspot. There’s no wifi.

Lol, so in other words, they have internet.

[Pingaponga]

8 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

AUSA asks “Can you tell me what you know about the allegations?” Reaver pauses, is silent, and then says “Give me a minute.” Story objects, judge overrules.

“I don’t fully know everything but from my understanding there was some, uh, when he was younger, I’m not sure how old, maybe a teenager, that there was inappropriate touching of some of the minors.”

Was not aware that one of the minors was 5-years-old

Um, isn't this what happened when he was a teenager? These aren't the charges he is currently facing. From stuff he did two years ago.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, crazy8s said:

also the have no internet except

"We don’t have internet-internet, our internet is in our phone, it’s like a hotspot. There’s no wifi.

And our password is our birthdates. 

[emmawoodhouse]

7 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

If social media counts as public, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger.

Joy made a post earlier today. But it was not about the case. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Arkay]

My cousin is a Federal agent and my brother-in-law is a NYPD captain. They have guns, and that’s the extent of my knowledge of any firearms that have been in my vicinity.

I do understand  that in other regions of the country, legal guns are more common. Therefore I don’t know what to say about the Reavers having guns in a closet, but it certainly seems like if Josh spins out he can harm them or himself. Just lock him up, Judge. Please. 

[MrsClaus]

So none of his brothers have made any comments?  I find that interesting.

[Minivanessa]

I wonder how many of his fundie "friends" JB asked to house Josh before he finally got a "yes" answer from this Lacount Reaver guy. 

[crazy8s]

from reddit closing arguments happening now

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

Um, isn't this what happened when he was a teenager? These aren't the charges he is currently facing. From stuff he did two years ago.

Judge overruled, allowing that line of questions.

[Oldernowiser]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Judge overruled, allowing that line of questions.

Good.

[Snow Fairy]

Do they still think Jesus can save him?

Do they feel sorry for those molested kids? They did not want to be involved in something like that. Even if they said the devil made someone to that to those kids, the kids are sill innocent

How can they justify it even with Gothard belief system 

18month old child. How?

[crazy8s]

6 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Judge overruled, allowing that line of questions.

danger to the community was the reason for the overrule I think it was said on allowing questions of past history and was mrs reaver aware

Edited May 5, 2021 by crazy8s

[peppergal]

26 minutes ago, Arkay said:

I'm baffled by so much of this. How can one individual be savvy enough to divide internet stuff so that it’s hidden from someone who is supposed to be overseeing him, and yet use his birth year as a password? On not just his disgusting stuff but his bank accounts? 

 

Sadly, there are probably detailed instructions and even bootable cd-rom or usb key images to help set this kind of stuff up if you know what part of the internet underbelly to look in. 

I used to work in a part of IT that would automatically set up hard drives and applications.  It wasn't hard to create a bootable CD that you put in your machine and it re-partitioned things, installed the second OS, and installed/configured the needed software.  What I was doing was automating the manufacturing process so that when XYZ grocery stores bought new servers, they were pre-installed with their software/accounts/networking preferences/etc, but the same methodology could be used to provide a pre-packaged "set up my computer to do bad things" kit that wouldn't require the end user to actually understand much of the technology.

 

[BitterApple]

2 minutes ago, Arkay said:

My cousin is a Federal agent and my brother-in-law is a NYPD captain. They have guns, and that’s the extent of my knowledge of any firearms that have been in my vicinity.

I do understand  that in other regions of the country, legal guns are more common. Therefore I don’t know what to say about the Reavers having guns in a closet, but it certainly seems like if Josh spins out he can harm them or himself. Just lock him up, Judge. Please. 

Most gun owners I know have a dedicated safe or lockbox. My concern is if reality sets in and Josh realizes he's about to do time, he might have some sort of mental break. It's probably not a good idea for him to be housed in close proximity to nine weapons. 

[Gigi43]

This Mrs. Reavers doesn't seem to know what the fuck her husband agreed to do for JB. I feel bad for her, and I'm only getting the descriptions of what's going on. Is it possible she thinks porn itself is illegal or something and that's why they were there? Or am I giving her too much leeway? At least she's showing discomfort at the idea of having him at the house.

 

I'm really glad the judge is allowing his past to be brought up. This man has been doing shit since 2002, it's not reasonable to think he can be stopped by the people around him.

 

Where are these references to an 18 month old coming from? 

[libgirl2]

Just now, BitterApple said:

Most gun owners I know have a dedicated safe or lockbox. My concern is if reality sets in and Josh realizes he's about to do time, he might have some sort of mental break. It's probably not a good idea for him to be housed in close proximity to nine weapons. 

that is what I was thinking. I could imagine some stand off with the wife a hostage. 

[Tikichick]

Just now, BitterApple said:

Most gun owners I know have a dedicated safe or lockbox. My concern is if reality sets in and Josh realizes he's about to do time, he might have some sort of mental break. It's probably not a good idea for him to be housed in close proximity to nine weapons. 

You mean out of sight in a bedroom closet doesn't cut it?

[BitterApple]

Just now, Tikichick said:

You mean out of sight in a bedroom closet doesn't cut it?

Well, maybe if they buried the guns under two piles of clothes rather than one....

[MargeGunderson]

1 minute ago, Gigi43 said:

This Mrs. Reavers doesn't seem to know what the fuck her husband agreed to do for JB. I feel bad for her, and I'm only getting the descriptions of what's going on. Is it possible she thinks porn itself is illegal or something and that's why they were there? Or am I giving her too much leeway? At least she's showing discomfort at the idea of having him at the house.

 

I'm really glad the judge is allowing his past to be brought up. This man has been doing shit since 2002, it's not reasonable to think he can be stopped by the people around him.

 

Where are these references to an 18 month old coming from? 

I think she is obeying her headship, but giving as many signs that she is not on board with this without directly contradicting her husband. I hope the judge picks up on that.

[IndianPaintbrush]

It sounds like Mr. Reavers provides ministry to convicts and people in jail. Nothing wrong with that except when one of them shacks up in your house.

[mittsigirl]

6 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

May I just say we have some super smart people on this board?

And some very funny ones too, to break all of this tension!

[NotthebadVictoria]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

You mean out of sight in a bedroom closet doesn't cut it?

The bedroom would have a lock! Like the kind you can undo with a thumbnail in half a second 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️.

 

 

[GeeGolly]

Sorry to keep making jokes. Its one of the ways I deal with stress.

I'm guessing Mrs Reaver has lost s few piano students in the last hour.

[beckie]

10 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Joy made a post earlier today. But it was not about the case. 

Does anyone think its possible that Joy doesn't know yet? 

[Lady Whistleup]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Sorry to keep making jokes. Its one of the ways I deal with stress.

I'm guessing Mrs Reaver has lost s few piano students in the last hour.

Omg. LOL. Funniest post of the day.

[Pingaponga]

22 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

“I’m looking at is as we are here to be as help, to the family, to Josh and Anna. To minister to them.

Josh does not need anyone else "ministering" to him. He needs to be stopped.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

21 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm no longer wondering why Josiah and Lauren disappeared from SM.   They've been through it, I have no doubt.   Jinger and Jeremy's wildly gyrating changes of direction are no longer mysterious either.   Can't even snark on Jeremy's pomposity.   This has hit them hard too.   None of them deserve this.  

None of the other Duggar kids deserve this.  Jim Boob and Mechelle do.  

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

that is what I was thinking. I could imagine some stand off with the wife a hostage. 

That was my first thought as well. I could see Josh going out by "suicide by cop" rather than spend years in prison as a pedophile. It sounds crazy, but you never know what a caged animal will do when cornered. 

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

I'm really glad the judge is allowing his past to be brought up. This man has been doing shit since 2002, it's not reasonable to think he can be stopped by the people around him.

 

Where are these references to an 18 month old coming from? 

If I wasn't so disturbed by some of the details I would have to giggle at why it is possible that his past can be brought up.   The cover up and then subsequent exposure and the decision by the family to explain it away publicly took away the protection Josh facing the music in juvenile court would have afforded him now.

So the original plan of action on his earliest predation means it can be used against him in his bid for bond, and his very diligent efforts to conceal his activities from authorities and those around him all will be significant factors against granting bail.   Father and son, foisted on their own petards.   

[JoanArc]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Sorry to keep making jokes. Its one of the ways I deal with stress.

I'm guessing Mrs Reaver has lost s few piano students in the last hour.

I had much the same thought.

The Duggar name is basically poison at this point. Just kill her so already, TLC.

[Gigi43]

The pre-Anna girl who didn't marry Josh must be so fucking relieved it fell apart. 

[LexieLily]

I wonder if anyone besides Jill is on the Zoom to get firsthand account of what the charges are and what actually happens, to have proof of what the truth is when/if JB and Michelle tell the other kids and spouses a redacted/untrue version of events.

[Oldernowiser]

I am so OVER this Fundie Doublespeak bullshit. “We want to be a ministry to them” = “JB will pay us. “

FFS.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Oldernowiser

[Lady Whistleup]

Why would Mr. Reaver agree to this? Serious question here. If anyone was like "hey my 33 year old son just got arrested for CP but would you mind him being released into your house on bond?" I'd be like "Uh ... don't think so ... have to facetime my gerbil so must go ..."