Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[yogi2014L]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, since this conversation started with my hope that one of the girls breaks a light sabre and reams Jim Bob with it, I'm defining slipping as actual rebellion, not just a little unpermitted genital rubbing in response to a biological imperative!  So we're mainly just talking in different terms, I think.

To me, while I'd say that Josh has probably come closest to slipping the leash, on my definition he certainly hasn't actually slipped it.

Given what I'm thinking of here, I don't see him as any kind of serious rebel against Jim Bob and Michelle at all, Ever. And that's what I'm desperately waiting for in this family! After all, once they'd looked the other way about his molestation of little girls in the family he was the big fat smiling arrogant happy face of the family all over the tv. And he wept in the damn driveway because he was leaving them to go a few states away! And in DC -- Yeah, he tried to get his itch scratched. But I'm looking for a rebel, not a compulsive masturbator, so his sex-seeking doesn't qualify for me, since it was accompanied by constant arrogant speeches in favor of Gothardlike shit, just like Daddy, and a continued popping out of Duggar babies, just like Daddy.

As so often, of course, I'm biased in this by my own experience. I'm the only rebel in my family because I'm the only one who left and actually got different principles and acted on them. If you stayed and just did little crappy things on the sly that went against the rules -- you stayed just as wholly owned as you'd ever been, even if you deluded yourself into thinking that you weren't. That's what I saw, at any rate.

I do definitely agree with you that Josh doesn't "believe" the Gothard stuff and is only in it because these "beliefs" are what have got him and the family all their money and fame -- and because it allows him to hang on to Jizm Bob's tit. But I don't think Jizm Bob actually "believes" it either, in any adult sense.

I doubt Jizm Bob's given two seconds of thought, ever, to the actual theology or ethics or truth of his "faith." In my opinion, he just glommed onto Gothard because it promised good things for his ego. And he remains glommed on because it continues to feed his ego. The kids don't have a shot at believing in Gothard for that reason, since in the Gothard universe only the patriarch, and to a small extent his woman, gets ego feeding.

I wouldn't be surprised if, ultimately, Josh isn't the first one out the door, as you're predicting. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't, either, though. Because honestly I just think he's a massive coward and that that's his main characteristics. And when the family money runs dry, I can't decide whether I think his cowardice would be more likely to see him run or see him cling. Could go either way.

Ah ok I totally see where you are coming from :-) and yeah, I agree with you on all of the above- especially that Josh is a huge coward which is why he has tolerated any of the scandal fallout for so long

I also find that you having personal experience makes your opinions super interesting and adds a good perspective for me, so thank you <3~

[Zahdii]

I, too, agree with both scenarios.  Josh slipped, but was hoping to maintain his Gothard roll and keep slipping away as long as he could.  We've all seen it many times with conservative Christians and politicians.  But as Churchhoney said, as soon as the truth came out, Josh rushed back into the fold and has been hiding there ever since.  It remains to be seen if he'll eventually give up the family and cult protection and go off on his own.

[GeeGolly]

I'm not sure Josh isn't still full on Gothard. His slip/non slip was done with the same arrogant mindset the Gothard men promote. Very much like politicians and celebrities, who surround themselves with yes-men and hanger-on-ers, only the Gothard sect use woman to stroke their egos and producing children to measure their success.

I believe a good part of Josh believes he succumbed to the devil and the evil secular world, and if he reborns again he'll be a better man. I also believe that a teensy eensy part of him knows this isn't true, but he'll stomp that down because it's too scary and too painful for him to accept.

I also think many ultra conservative men use their belief as a stay-out-of-hell card and that God will understand and forgive them easier because they are the TRUE believers.

 

(I think I might have set a record for using the word believe, or variation of, the most in one post. Should have accessed a thesaurus)

[kokapetl]

I think I see Aaaanna, so I'll post this here:

[BitterApple]

Is that a doll on that ottoman or an unattended baby?!

[RazzleberryPie]

That's a baby.

[riverblue22]

Every house needs two harps.  Do you suppose those kids are still being forced to play the violin?

[AnnieBeez]

7 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Is that a doll on that ottoman or an unattended baby?!

Looks like a really worn out toddler. Strange that she's just all alone there. Find that girl a bed!

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Is that a doll on that ottoman or an unattended baby?!

She's picking her nose....ewwww

[Barb23]

Looks like the guy with the beard is embarrassed he was caught at the Duggars. 

Is that Mer on the ottoman?

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 hours ago, Barb23 said:

Looks like the guy with the beard is embarrassed he was caught at the Duggars. 

Is that Mer on the ottoman?

Which guy with the beard, the one with a barnacle/succubus permanently attached to him?

[RazzleberryPie]

12 hours ago, MischaMouse said:

Looks like a really worn out toddler. Strange that she's just all alone there. Find that girl a bed!

Babies are such a gift. Let's totally ignore them. These people are cray.

[Sew Sumi]

I don't see Anna unless she's the one half hidden with all of those MEN way in the back, but that girl's either wearing a short skirt with tights or leggings. The only other two girls in the pic are either wearing pants or definitely NOT Anna (the one in the long sweater). 

I'm glad they're keeping up their Pray In the New Year ritual. I just looked for pics on IG before I came here and didn't see anything on any of the Duggar accounts (save Jessa, since I can't see hers). 

But ouch! Unattended crashed Meredith! 

[sheshark]

If this is Anna she is def knocked up.

[Christina87]

Who is that girl in [gasp] jeans?!

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I don't think that's Anna. The stature, hair color, and clothing style are very different. That looks like a young woman, maybe teenager still, with a little belly chub, nothing more. (To me, at least.)

I think Couch Baby is Davia. She looks too old and too much hair (even with hairbands) to be Meredith. Also, I know Davia by her head shape. It has fascinated me since she was a baby. (That's not too weird, is it???) Maybe she's a Dominguez baby? (Edyn? Elly?) I think that looks like Sierra in the corner. [Nevermind - that's not Sierra. But definitely could be a Dominguez little.]

Edited January 2, 2017 by SpaghettiTuesdays

[Absolom]

The shoes!  I don't think we've ever seen Anna in footwear like that. 

[kokapetl]

3 hours ago, sheshark said:

If this is Anna she is def knocked up.

Anna wouldn't wear something that sloppy.

[zenme]

Anna's trying to keep Joshley out of the strip clubs. I doubt that's her in that particular footwear and skirt.

[Arwen Evenstar]

That sort of sloppiness is typical of Jilly Muffin.  Perhaps she doffed Mustard Cardigan.

[louannems]

4 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Anna wouldn't wear something that sloppy.

Over on Inquisitor, the woman who designed Jinger's wedding cake says that girl is her 17 yr old daughter.  And she most definitely is not pregnant!  How embarrassing for that teen girl!

[zenme]

Well, that skirt with those shoes together...that's a birth control outfit of sorts.

Edited January 3, 2017 by zenme

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, zenme said:

Well, that skirt with those shoes together...that's a birth control outfit of sorts.

I'll have you know that's Fundy Misery Fashion at it finest.  You've got the holy trifecta, frumper denim skirt, shirt with modesty t shirt or polo, with ugly athletic shoes.

[laurakaye]

On 12/31/2016 at 11:35 PM, Kokapetl said:

I think I see Aaaanna, so I'll post this here:

Who's the guy in the hat and bright blue coat?  He seems to be thinking about using the "Peace on Earth" door as an escape.

The unattended toddler on the ottoman makes my blood boil.  Her parents, whoever they are, are clearly not in range.  You don't just drop your toddler on a piece of random furniture and leave her by herself.  No one in that picture is watching her.  The closest people to her would be Heavy D and Muffin, and you know ain't either one of them paying attention to someone else's kid.

Edited January 4, 2017 by laurakaye

[ariel]

2 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Who's the guy in the hat and bright blue coat?  He seems to be thinking about using the "Peace on Earth" door as an escape.

And steal one of the harps on his way out.

[abstractstuff]

Is that kid on the ottoman really that serious?  She's not an infant. She's lying there, it's close to the floor. I'm not getting that at all. 

[lookeyloo]

Just now, abstractstuff said:

Is that kid on the ottoman really that serious?  She's not an infant. She's lying there, it's close to the floor. I'm not getting that at all. 

Maybe blanket trained to stay in place?

[abstractstuff]

Judging from that picture there is absolutely nothing at all to suggest that.. But.. Okay.

[ariel]

4 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

Judging from that picture there is absolutely nothing at all to suggest that.. But.. Okay.

From what we know of the Duggars & their ilk, that suggestion is not impossible.

[Natalie68]

12 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Who's the guy in the hat and bright blue coat?  He seems to be thinking about using the "Peace on Earth" door as an escape.

The unattended toddler on the ottoman makes my blood boil.  Her parents, whoever they are, are clearly not in range.  You don't just drop your toddler on a piece of random furniture and leave her by herself.  No one in that picture is watching her.  The closest people to her would be Heavy D and Muffin, and you know ain't either one of them paying attention to someone else's kid.

Reminds me of the Mormon wedding reception I went to years ago (my cousin).  The grooms brother was sitting with his wife, other sisters, and his 2 toddlers.  One was trying to climb over the back of his chair right next to dad who was ignoring him.  I was getting very itchy watching this unfold because it had a chance to go very badly but not my kid and they were sitting at another table.  He finally told his wife, across the table from the him (the kid was inches away from his hand) and climber to come do something about it.  Yes this asshole father didn't want to put down his snack to wrangle his own child.  You know, women's work.  This is exactly the type of treatment of children *I* have seen my own religious family treat their many blessings.  They also let them ride their trikes/bikes unattended around a campground outside LA and the oldest was maybe 6.  Too far for the parents to help should someone try to snatch them or even see them if they fell.  Yes, my sister and I had to watch them out of fear since their own gd parents couldn't be bothered.  So this picture is no surprise to me.  

[Sew Sumi]

Since we haven't seen any sign of the Smug family at this Pray in the New Year/Tabby Paine party, I am thinking this is Sierra's kid "Squish," who is apparently teething about 6 right now....while your parents are off kissing under one of the Jesus banners. 

[RazzleberryPie]

2 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

Is that kid on the ottoman really that serious?  She's not an infant. She's lying there, it's close to the floor. I'm not getting that at all. 

I agree. Kid looks toddler sized and is in someone's home, not some vast public place, or dangling off a balcony, etc. 

[Marigold]

That picture of the child lying there just cracked me up.

Like she just gave up with the stupid Duggar party, climbed on that ottoman and passed out.  Smart girl!

 

Doesn't look too dangerous to me but I don't know the child.  Some kids can lie quietly and safely while mom is close by.  Other kids need to be supervised very closely or they will lick a fan or something. 

[MarysWetBar]

1 hour ago, Marigold said:

That picture of the child lying there just cracked me up.

Like she just gave up with the stupid Duggar party, climbed on that ottoman and passed out.  Smart girl!

 

Doesn't look too dangerous to me but I don't know the child.  Some kids can lie quietly and safely while mom is close by.  Other kids need to be supervised very closely or they will lick a fan or something. 

Likely safer risking the potential skull fracture hitting those tiles melon first. Better than putting her upstairs for a nap in that godly house full of godly people.

[MrSmith]

15 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Who's the guy in the hat and bright blue coat?  He seems to be thinking about using the "Peace on Earth" door as an escape.

The unattended toddler on the ottoman makes my blood boil.  Her parents, whoever they are, are clearly not in range.  You don't just drop your toddler on a piece of random furniture and leave her by herself.  No one in that picture is watching her.  The closest people to her would be Heavy D and Muffin, and you know ain't either one of them paying attention to someone else's kid.

There's a person on the couch on the right whose knees are all you can see. That person might be watching the toddler.

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, MarysWetBar said:

Likely safer risking the potential skull fracture hitting those tiles melon first. Better than putting her upstairs for a nap in that godly house full of godly people.

Remember they said on TeeVee that molestations happen in most (?) families. It is true that most of the sexual abuse of young children is perpetrated by relatives, family friends, and neighbors, instead of complete strangers. So I certainly wouldn't leave a child unattended in this crowd.

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, I dug up Jill's "2/3's of ALL families" statement (clearly posed as statement as fact) during Part One of the Megyn Kelly interview. I posted it on FJ, and I'm not inclined to find it and repost it here. I guess after you say that, you have to block off your stairs. I don't remember the stairs being blocked off before Joshgate, except maybe for Jill's wedding after party, but that's really more because there were 400 people there, not any overt fear of child molestation.

[Arwen Evenstar]

39 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yeah, I dug up Jill's "2/3's of ALL families" statement (clearly posed as statement as fact) during Part One of the Megyn Kelly interview. I posted it on FJ, and I'm not inclined to find it and repost it here. I guess after you say that, you have to block off your stairs. I don't remember the stairs being blocked off before Joshgate, except maybe for Jill's wedding after party, but that's really more because there were 400 people there, not any overt fear of child molestation.

I wouldn't want to give 400 people free range of my house.  Perhaps the sheet is to keep small children off the staircase and sliding down the banister so they don't get hurt. But being that these are sex obsessed Duggars  who fear a male child would be defrauded by a diaper, what else would we think of their barriers?

[DangerousMinds]

49 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yeah, I dug up Jill's "2/3's of ALL families" statement (clearly posed as statement as fact) during Part One of the Megyn Kelly interview. I posted it on FJ, and I'm not inclined to find it and repost it here. I guess after you say that, you have to block off your stairs. I don't remember the stairs being blocked off before Joshgate, except maybe for Jill's wedding after party, but that's really more because there were 400 people there, not any overt fear of child molestation.

No doubt very easy to sneak past the sheets "blocking" the stairs though. Or someone offering to take one of the little ones outside for a few minutes to play, or whatever.

[MarysWetBar]

28 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

No doubt very easy to sneak past the sheets "blocking" the stairs though. Or someone offering to take one of the little ones outside for a few minutes to play, or whatever.

Unfortunately, predators will always find a way. Sheets or no sheets. Pyjamas or no pyjamas. Parents right there in the house but xanaxed into oblivion.

[Sew Sumi]

Especially when everything is explained away by the victims as "light, inappropriate touching." So what if they cross that barrier. How bad can it be? /sarcasm

[Lemur]

14 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Especially when everything is explained away by the victims as "light, inappropriate touching." So what if they cross that barrier. How bad can it be? /sarcasm

They weren't even awake, you know.  If their parents hadn't told them what happened ...

[Sew Sumi]

And the Pope is Jewish...

[RazzleberryPie]

I still want to see Jill's sources from where she got that 2/3 of families have an instance of molestation.

[lascuba]

3 hours ago, Lemur said:

They weren't even awake, you know.  If their parents hadn't told them what happened ...

The only two victims who spoke about it publicly weren't awake. The ones who were awake, JB brushed of as "only under the clothes for a couple of seconds."

[Rabbittron]

Just remember that they were asleep so that doesn't count according to them.

[Sew Sumi]

23 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I still want to see Jill's sources from where she got that 2/3 of families have an instance of molestation.

From what I have pieced together, it's Gothardese, or more generously, What Fundies Say. I think I recall guys like Botkin throwing around the same statistics but never citing a source. 

[laurakaye]

7 hours ago, MrSmith said:

There's a person on the couch on the right whose knees are all you can see. That person might be watching the toddler.

I'm pretty sure those knees belong to Derick, which means Jill is attached to his face, which means I doubt either of them are watching the child.

Is it a big deal?  Maybe not in a family setting where the adults tend to watch over the little ones.  But this is the Duggar house.  And the house seems to be packed with random people, none of whom - at least in this picture - were paying attention to the child...unless Jana is standing just outside the frame of the photo.

Edited January 5, 2017 by laurakaye

[MrSmith]

4 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I'm pretty sure those knees belong to Derick, which means Jill is attached to his face

LOL. The images this conjured.... The first one was definitely not the one you meant!

[Arwen Evenstar]

50 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I still want to see Jill's sources from where she got that 2/3 of families have an instance of molestation.

Listen to any Fundy radio like Family 88.3 and sometimes I lurk when scanning channels to see what sort of statistics and other nonsense and hyperbole they are spreading.  Fundies rely on other Fundy organizations for their "facts" that they then turn into a cudgel to persecute the LGBTQ community and others they have decided they don't like.