Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Fuzzysox]

The more I think about Anna's TH segment the more I think it was a PSA for the Jesus Can Fix Anyone: Josh's Redemption Tour.

 

Coming to a Mega Church near you, just $25 per ticket. Order early and often, love JimBoob.

[Kellyee]

Are we sure Josh is still alive?? How long does he have to stay at the Bible prison? Heroin addicts don't go to rehab this long. Its all very strange. Josh definitely has a serious problem, but I highly doubt he's receiving real psychological treatment where they have him stashed away.

[Churchhoney]

If forcibly touching your siblings isn't a problem... I wonder what the Duggars' think are? Dancing, showing your knees? Wow! Those are HORRIBLE compared to what Josh did. *Eye Roll*

 

What other people do is bad. What they do is A-ok.

[Cherrio]

Are we sure Josh is still alive?? How long does he have to stay at the Bible prison? Heroin addicts don't go to rehab this long. Its all very strange. Josh definitely has a serious problem, but I highly doubt he's receiving real psychological treatment where they have him stashed away.

The place he is at has no treatment, just a bunch of meth, heroin, food, sex and other assorted folks who preach about frogs and luggage.

[drafan]

I haven't watched the show yet, but I'm glad she addressed the marrying a molester thing. Now I can be free to hate her, without guilt. I do kinda doubt she knew right away, but she knew before the marriage. F anyone who does that, even if they think he's cured, or that you can put a positive spin on things. I don't envy her life situation, but she made this bed, in the Duggar girls dorm, he can lie in it. My infinite sympathy o the M'kids. They deserve nothing they've gotten in life.

 Yup, all this. Plus, wasn't it quoted somewhere that he was " following the career" of the particular porn star that he banged?  So if the PS is a year or two older than Josh, then he NEVER STOPPED LOOKING AT PORN !!!! Not after he got caught touching the girls, not after he got caught at the political office, not for one second. Probably didn't stop when he married Anna either. Egads. She has to be clueless.

So, yup, Anna loves the lifestyle. The Coach purses, the Hummer, the Invisalign braces, the Apple gear, getting her puss on TV, etc. All better (to her) than her previous lifestyle. She will never leave, even if it means sleeping in a bed labeled for Jana until Josh gets sprung/enough time goes by for the Holier Than Thou Salvation Show.

Edited December 22, 2015 by drafan

[Oldernowiser]

It would make me so, so happy if Anna would only greet the returning Josh by grabbing him by the shirtfront and hissing, "You are now my bitch 24/7 and you are going to do what I tell you, smile while you're doing it, and KEEP SWEET. Oh, and you've touched me for the last time and when your parents ask why I'm not pregnant again? You are going to look stricken, say it's because of what you caught screwing around, and ask them for prayers and a six digit love offering payable to me."

[Barb23]

My question as well. Just what would the last straw be? I think they will be back together for a while, maybe a few years, maybe not quite that long. But I just don't think Josh can do the upright-Christian, Dudley Do-Right husband and father bit. Not for long stretches of time. I think he loved living in Washington, out from under Boob's control [and pursestrings], away from the car lot and all the travel and opportunities the FRC position offered him. Like the proverbial traveling salesman, he could easily live a double life having that kind of job. Anna at home taking care of his kids - and himself - away from home for nights at a time - sitting in a hotel bar waiting for whatever. I think he's truly kicking himself for wrecking that situation. For what he wanted, he had it made.

Boy he did have it made. Like we've said, he would still be living the Joshley Madison life had it not been for the release of names. He didn't come clean - he got caught!!

[bigskygirl]

People can live a happy, healthy productive life living in a mobile home. A house does not mean happy, happy, happy 24/7 365 days a year. The Duggars are living proof of this.

 

Yes, Josh and Anna have their D celebrity fame, but it has come at a very hefty price.

[kokapetl]

People can live a happy, healthy productive life living in a mobile home. A house does not mean happy, happy, happy 24/7 365 days a year. The Duggars are living proof of this.

Personally, I would love to see the Duggars live without the luxuries they have now. What would happen if they needed to hunt or raise animals for meat, grow a garden, no homes from daddy after getting married, no careers or planes or Alert training without mommy/daddy/Gothard movement, no donations, or someone feeding their massive egos.

starve to death, kids under 16 dispatched to different foster homes.

[bigskygirl]

starve to death, kids under 16 dispatched to different foster homes.

Taken my response to the 19 Things I Hate Thread in order to keep this thread on topic.

[Defrauder]

OK so Josh gets out or prayer prison where according to their rules he was not allowed to talk about his 'problem'.  So assuming he is not cured of his 'problem' he wants to do the same things again with the only things stopping him are JB and some other accountability family members watching his every move.  How long can that last?  A year, two at the most.  My prediction - he'll rebuild lost trust by good behavior for awhile and not having been helped in  any real way he will succumb to his desires yet again it's just a matter of time and available circumstances.  He can't be watched 24/7 forever although they will probably try.

[Missy Vixen]

I'm wondering if, when Josh was praying for a wife, he and his parents figured he should pray low. In other words, did they truly believe he found Jesus and was living a Christian life, or did they think he was damaged goods. And did Josh think he was damaged goods?

 

Are/were the Kellers bottom shelf Gothardites? And is that the highest Joshie and his parents thought he could reach? 

One has to imagine that the Duggars and their -- ahem -- interesting home life has been known to more than a few of the Gothardites over the years. One has to also surmise that Jim Boob is not well loved in that community. For example: One can't help but notice that none of the Bateseseses ended up courting a member of the Duggar family. We now know that their headship serves on the ATI board and was probably already familiar with Joshley Madison's hijinks as a result, if not other info that has not been made public.

 

The Duggars were (in my opinion, of course. ALLEGEDLY) 1. Desperate to marry Josh off due to the molestation issue and their pending deal with TLC, especially since he was (again allegedly) unable to live in the same house with his siblings. 2. Had to find a wife that lived far enough away from their family and those who knew the truth at the TTH and the "home church" to agree to marry Joshley. 3. Anna's dad's "prison ministry" might make him a shred more understanding and willing to play ball than another family who would end the courtship or worse when they found out the truth. There was also the added enticement of possible increased donations to the Kellers' ministry due to his daughter's connections with the almighty Duggars.

 

Joshley Madison's self-opinion has always been inflated but one has to believe that the stars in the Gothard community (contemporary Christian singers, etcetera) were out of his reach.

[Defrauder]

To Anna's father - couldn't you have a prison ministry without setting your daughter up with what many would consider a molester or sex offender?  Couldn't you teach forgiveness without putting your daughter at risk?  Couldn't you pray for people with wisdom without having to prove how forgiving you are by sacrificing your daughter on the alter of forgive and forget?

[Ljohnson1987]

There was an article about how the M kids miss their dad. I'm sure they do. I hope the kids get real counseling when they're older. I cannot imagine what this has done to them. Also, Anna needs to wake the hell up, and leave Smugs.

 

http://www.people.com/article/josh-duggar-kids-miss-him-christmas

[Defrauder]

Reading comments in the various online articles about Anna's decision to stay the vast majority (like 99%) of people are sickened by it and mostly worried about her kid's safety.

[BitterApple]

I think you guys are raising some interesting points. What exactly IS going to happen when Josh gets home? Will he and Anna take over the pool house? Is he going to be allowed around his children unsupervised? If the molestation had never happened, the cheating and porn would make me consider him a selfish jerk, but not necessarily a man who has a serious, deep rooted problem. When you factor in all three, you really have to be concerned about having a guy like Josh in your home.

Edited December 22, 2015 by BitterApple

[bigskygirl]

Once again, do not go into the Josh may inappropriately touch his children. The mods have warn all of you more than once about this. Posts will be hidden or deleted and warnings will be given out. Take the discussion somewhere else.

[Marigold]

It is Ok for a couple to try to save their marriage after such messy things happening.

But Anna and Josh aren't handling it right. Praying "it" away will only lead to his behavior escalating. Duh, this "pray it away" approach has already failed.

If they are uncomfortable with secular counselors, there are PLENTY of qualified Christian counselors to choose from.

My husband and I went to counseling and I wanted a Christian counselor and guess what? I found one! The Duggars can google up Christian counselors and find tons of people to choose from. Incorporate prayer with counseling but find a qualified person to work with Josh, Anna and then the two together.

This family is so messed up. So fearful of everyone and everything.

[lookeyloo]

It would make me so, so happy if Anna would only greet the returning Josh by grabbing him by the shirtfront and hissing, "You are now my bitch 24/7 and you are going to do what I tell you, smile while you're doing it, and KEEP SWEET. Oh, and you've touched me for the last time and when your parents ask why I'm not pregnant again? You are going to look stricken, say it's because of what you caught screwing around, and ask them for prayers and a six digit love offering payable to me."

Oh but Anna is a healthy girl in her 20s and my guess is she wants it to work out so she can have the physical part too. Maybe the rest but I can't see her foregoing it all forever.

[BitterApple]

Oh but Anna is a healthy girl in her 20s and my guess is she wants it to work out so she can have the physical part too. Maybe the rest but I can't see her foregoing it all forever.

Lulz! If you had to choose sex with a bloated corpse like Smuggar or a life of celibacy, which would it be?

[drafan]

There was an article about how the M kids miss their dad. I'm sure they do. I hope the kids get real counseling when they're older. I cannot imagine what this has done to them.

 

They could be just fine, depending on how it's been explained. They look perfectly happy in all the pictures that have been posted. Don't forget, they have a billion aunts and uncles to play with every day.

Kids have had separations from a parent for various reasons and have survived without counseling. I've know people who had parents who split up when the kids were younger and then got back together, and the kids can't remember the split-up time at all....only know about it from the parents telling them later. The MKids are still pretty little. Their needs are being met. They seem to be shielded from the media. They could be perfectly happy and maybe just occasionally asking about their dad. The "missing Josh" story angle may be just to sell a story (for $$$$$).

[Ilovemylabs]

Walking out on a limb right now.  I don't think Josh would molest his own kids or any other kids for that matter.  He was 13 when the fondling occurred and he knew right from wrong because he confessed to his folks.  They were to blame for the repeat occurrences because they did not get him the professional help he needed.  They pawed at each other but would not let him find a more acceptable outlet for his teenage feelings (masturbation?).  His view of sex was skewed by his parents.  But, as I said, I don't think he is a threat to kids anymore.  I've thought that from the beginning of all the drama.  Now the Ashley Madison stuff is a whole other ball of wax (again in my opinion).  Maybe Anna wasn't fun it bed.  Or maybe he couldn't even bring up some of the stuff he'd like to do because he viewed her as such a God fearing woman.  He wanted naughty sex play but didn't think he could ask her to go along.  In the movie Analyze This, Robert DeNiro tells Billy Crystal he has a mistress for just that reason.  He would never ask his wife for a BJ because "those are the lips that kiss my children."  I actually am more appalled by the AM stuff than the previous actions.  And once again, he is NOT GETTING PROFESSIONAL HELP!!!  I know I'm in the minority here, but I've been there before!

[Vaysh]

He was 13 when the fondling occurred and he knew right from wrong because he confessed to his folks.

He was 14 and 15 and he didn't confess, he got caught according to the police report. And IMO it doesn't really matter if he "knew right from wrong" because clearly that knowledge didn't stop him from acting on his compulsions. He kept molesting the girls for over a year, even after he got caught and it appears from the police report that his behaviour escalated during that time. He only stopped because he realised that his actions would have a negative impact on his own life (per his own FRC resignation note), not because he had any true understanding that what he did was wrong because he was hurting other people.

Maybe Anna wasn't fun it bed.  Or maybe he couldn't even bring up some of the stuff he'd like to do because he viewed her as such a God fearing woman.

Yes. Do let's blame it on the wife.

In the movie Analyze This, Robert DeNiro tells Billy Crystal he has a mistress for just that reason.

A movie created by notoriously misogynist Hollywood is perhaps not the first place I would go for explanations for cheating husbands.

 

 

I agree with you that Josh was warped by his upbringing and that he should've gotten proper counselling. I actually also agree that he's not a threat as such to children because I think his main issues lies with people of the female sex and his utter lack of respect for them. I honestly don't think he sees women as fully human. We are some kind of appendages, only there to satisfy the needs and whims of men, especially Josh.

[Kiss my mutt]

I thought he was closer to 15?

Molestation is obviously not taken very seriously in this church/cult so not surprised they all seemed to sweep it under the rug. If Gothard can do it, why not Josh? He thinks he's a special snowflake.

Has anyone actually seen him at these televised Friday services? I have serious doubts he ever went to counseling.

[Oldernowiser]

Lulz! If you had to choose sex with a bloated corpse like Smuggar or a life of celibacy, which would it be?

Exactly. I would be one surprised cowgirl if Anna was getting anything other than 20 seconds of grunting and baby production out of that guy...there isn't anything he was doing that can't be bested with double A batteries or a rent boy who might actually treat her nicely.

Anna...tighten the screws down and give them another half turn. That "family" owes you...don't let them convince you this was somehow your fault.

[lookeyloo]

Lulz! If you had to choose sex with a bloated corpse like Smuggar or a life of celibacy, which would it be?

Well he is surely not my type but she professes to love him. And when you love someone you can usually look past some physical imperfections. Character ones maybe not but she will think he has prayed the sin away. Nothing I would do. But just trying to think like Anna. Oh my gosh. That s a frightening thought!!

[Churchhoney]

Lulz! If you had to choose sex with a bloated corpse like Smuggar or a life of celibacy, which would it be?

 

And not just a bloated corpse but, I would bet big money, a bloated corpse who has absolutely no interest in his partner's pleasure, let alone her emotions. He's an utter selfish bastard and a lazy but arrogant oaf who may never have read a book and may never even have watched a movie that wasn't sneaked porn. And he's never looked very comfortable in his own skin either, to me, at least. As far as I know, such men tend to make very very crappy lovers.

 

So ... no contest, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Albanyguy]

Oh but Anna is a healthy girl in her 20s and my guess is she wants it to work out so she can have the physical part too.

 

I think she'll want the "physical part" because she'll be hell-bent on having another baby as soon as possible. Look for a new blessed event to arrive nine months to the day after Josh gets home from Jesus Jail. She's probably already picked out new boy and girl "M' names (although I'm guessing "Madison" won't be one of them).

[louannems]

My question as well. Just what would the last straw be? I think they will be back together for a while, maybe a few years, maybe not quite that long. But I just don't think Josh can do the upright-Christian, Dudley Do-Right husband and father bit. Not for long stretches of time. I think he loved living in Washington, out from under Boob's control [and pursestrings], away from the car lot and all the travel and opportunities the FRC position offered him. Like the proverbial traveling salesman, he could easily live a double life having that kind of job. Anna at home taking care of his kids - and himself - away from home for nights at a time - sitting in a hotel bar waiting for whatever. I think he's truly kicking himself for wrecking that situation. For what he wanted, he had it made.

But couldn't Joshie have easily continued with the double life if he hadn't been so dumb. Really, his AM account was SOOOOOOO obvious. Couldn't he have been more anonymous??

[Wellfleet]

But couldn't Joshie have easily continued with the double life if he hadn't been so dumb. Really, his AM account was SOOOOOOO obvious. Couldn't he have been more anonymous??

 

Once again, all that isolation worked against Joshie. If he ever had any real friends, he'd probably be aware of the fact that most people - and all of the smart people - don't use their real names online. Especially on the kind of websites he was visiting. You blew it, Boob & Me-chelle. You protected Josh away from the cold cruel world and he still managed to screw up royally. Twice. You're a ringing endorsement of the Gothard way...

But couldn't Joshie have easily continued with the double life if he hadn't been so dumb. Really, his AM account was SOOOOOOO obvious. Couldn't he have been more anonymous??

 

Once again, all that isolation worked against Joshie. If he ever had any real friends, he'd probably be aware of the fact that most people - and all of the smart people - don't use their real names online. Especially on the kind of websites he was visiting. You blew it, Boob & Me-chelle. You protected Josh away from the cold cruel world and he still managed to screw up royally. Twice. You're a ringing endorsement of the Gothard way...

[Ilovemylabs]

He was 14 and 15 and he didn't confess, he got caught according to the police report. And IMO it doesn't really matter if he "knew right from wrong" because clearly that knowledge didn't stop him from acting on his compulsions. He kept molesting the girls for over a year, even after he got caught and it appears from the police report that his behaviour escalated during that time. He only stopped because he realised that his actions would have a negative impact on his own life (per his own FRC resignation note), not because he had any true understanding that what he did was wrong because he was hurting other people.

Yes. Do let's blame it on the wife.

A movie created by notoriously misogynist Hollywood is perhaps not the first place I would go for explanations for cheating husbands.

 

 

I agree with you that Josh was warped by his upbringing and that he should've gotten proper counselling. I actually also agree that he's not a threat as such to children because I think his main issues lies with people of the female sex and his utter lack of respect for them. I honestly don't think he sees women as fully human. We are some kind of appendages, only there to satisfy the needs and whims of men, especially Josh.

I guess I have to clarify.  He was 13 (almost 14) when all this BEGAN, although it did continue on for a couple of more years.  He was older when the police report was made. His confessing, in my opinion, was a cry for help because he knew what he was doing was wrong.  I do not blame him for that.  I blame mom and dad Duggar for not getting him the professional help he obviously needed.  Had they done so, I believe (again my opinion) that his activities might have stopped then and there.  I blame the parents for something that could have been prevented.  The continuation of his activities is on them because he was still not an adult, even at 15 years old.  They should have known better.  I'm a Christian, but, dear Lord, I know when prayer alone is not enough.  God helps those who help themselves.

 

As for 'Anna not being exciting in bed', I was not blaming her at all.  She has all my sympathy.  I think Josh may have used this as an EXCUSE for the AM account.  Please don't accuse me of giving him any excuse for that!

 

RE: the quote from the movie.  I was just using that as an example of how some men might think or justify their behavior. I was not using it as a justification.  You can disagree, but Josh wasn't the only person to have an AM account.  Who knows what motivated all those people (mostly MEN from the reports).

 

So feel free to disagree with me and state your own theories, but please do not misrepresent what I wrote.  If the fault is mine for not being clearer, then I hope I have rectified that.

[birkenstock]

I guess I have to clarify.  He was 13 (almost 14) when all this BEGAN, although it did continue on for a couple of more years.  He was older when the police report was made. His confessing, in my opinion, was a cry for help because he knew what he was doing was wrong.  I do not blame him for that.  I blame mom and dad Duggar for not getting him the professional help he obviously needed.  Had they done so, I believe (again my opinion) that his activities might have stopped then and there.  I blame the parents for something that could have been prevented.  The continuation of his activities is on them because he was still not an adult, even at 15 years old.  They should have known better.  I'm a Christian, but, dear Lord, I know when prayer alone is not enough.  God helps those who help themselves.

I agree that Jim Bob and Michelle are responsible for letting the molestations go on for over a year.  It's ridiculous that parents wouldn't step in sooner and stop their son from preying on younger children over and over and also not get Josh the help he needed.  They didn't protect any of their children and showed Josh he could get away with heinous things with barely any repercussions. I agree Josh needed intensive therapy and to be removed from the home. I wonder why Grandma Mary didn't take him in or Michelle's parents.  From the reports, it seems like Jim Bob and Michelle even left Josh alone with the younger kids while they went out.  I don't understand how Jim Bob and Michelle can't see that they failed those kids by not acting.  I'm not usually a Megyn Kelly fan, but was grateful when she asked Jim Bob if he felt like he didn't protect his daughters. He looked taken aback.

 

I think Josh is responsible for his actions even if he was a "young teen."  He made deliberate choices and knew what he was doing was wrong.  He waited until people were asleep or he was alone with his victims so he could get away with it.  It would be different if Josh told his parents he had "desires that could not be righteously fulfilled" and didn't harm others.  That he did what he wanted and then confessed feels like confessed to be absolved of responsibility and make himself feel better.  Are you really sorry if you keep doing the same thing and know it's wrong?  

 

I think that there wouldn't have been a backlash against the family if Jim Bob and Michelle had taken real action and gotten him and his sisters real therapy when it first happened.  Maybe criticism of Gothardism and over-sheltering, but they would have been viewed as a family who had hard times, directly addressed it, and moved on as a unit. Really, Jim Bob and Michelle caused the ship to sink with their inaction.  

 

I feel sorry for everyone who is not Jim Bob, Josh, and Michelle. Those three are the only ones who should feel shame. 

[Chalby]

Where I am stuck is WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR ANY OF JOSH'S ACTIONS?

There are none. When he molested the girls? none/minimal. Now? None/minimal.

 

What really concerns me is the distance that Jim Boob and Meshall are maintaining from Josh and his sex addiction. I am not surprised by Josh's obsession with sex. He grew up, sexually repressed while watching his father dry hump and paw his mother, every chance Jim Boob got. And Josh saw child after child being pumped out, to remind all the kids that the parents are sexually active. Finally, Josh had a mother who consistently reminded the children that it's the woman's job to be 'joyfully' available to her husband, no matter how she felt. Josh's parents taught him that women are primarily for sex, and it doesn't matter if they say 'no', or say they don't want to. It's their duty. Josh is also aware that Meshall feels pretty useless now that her eggs are gone. She keeps Josie on her hip 24/7 (impressive given her missing muscle) as that is the only excuse she has left for denying 18 other children of love and affection. One last note, when the Duggars visited the Bates (in one episode on the Bates show) the whole lot of them were front hugging each other. What a load of crap they cart out when it serves them. With all this hypocrisy, no wonder there is so much sexual repression. I predict Anna will be encouraged to pick out a different Duggar brother to hook up with. That way she stays in the family, but doesn't have to service that loser anymore.

Edited December 23, 2015 by bigskygirl
In-law incest sentence taken out

[Chalby]

I agree with you that Josh was warped by his upbringing and that he should've gotten proper counselling. I actually also agree that he's not a threat as such to children because I think his main issues lies with people of the female sex and his utter lack of respect for them. 

I would have to disagree only because I see Josh being sexually turned on by any imbalance in power. Molesting younger children falls into this "abuse of power" category, as does paying for 'rough' sex. Josh has been raised to believe men are more evolved than women, and women will always be subservient to men. I wouldn't leave him alone with anyone who is the least bit self-conscious, or insecure. Fingers crossed, we won' hear more confessions from younger Duggars as they approach puberty and realize that his behaviour has been inappropriate in so many ways.

[BitterApple]

I think Josh felt trapped by marrying young and wanted to do the kind of sleeping around most guys do in college and their early 20s. I don't think it would have mattered if Anna was a dead fish in bed or had the skills of a high priced call girl, Josh would have cheated either way.

The worst part about it is I can see Anna reacting as most women do and thinking her husband was unfaithful because she wasn't pretty enough or thin enough or whatever. I don't think she has anyone with whom she can share her true feelings. I know she's close with Jana, but that's a Gothard-y kind of close, not a true blue bestie kind of close. She must feel very alone.

[Chalby]

The cheating is bad enough. The unprotected sex is terrible. I wonder if Josh even knew about protection. How far does their ignorance extend?

 

Sorry, but where did you read about 'unprotected' sex? Guaranteed that the hookers used condoms. And I have not read about any other encounters... yet...

[Churchhoney]

Sorry, but where did you read about 'unprotected' sex? Guaranteed that the hookers used condoms. And I have not read about any other encounters... yet...

 

Here, among other places:  http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh-duggar-cheating-affair-mistress-ashley-madison-danica-dillon-68130

 

'Josh was violent with her when they had sex, he did not use protection and gave her thousands of dollars after their encounters.

Danica admits she “took the opportunity because Josh offered to gift [her] $1,500.”'

 

The "unprotected sex" is one of the reasons I've wondered whether the details of this Dillon woman's story were exaggeration from the beginning. As you say, hookers use condoms..... The only things that make me think, well,  maybe she's telling the truth about the no protection, is that she's a sex performer but from what I gather not officially operating as a prostitute, so she hadn't really thought the thing through? Or maybe she was desperate for money -- because "gift her $1,500" doesn't in the least sound like a hooker talking about a professional, well employed person she arranged a date with? Too little money... and 'gift her'? really? It's pay.  Or maybe, realizing who he was, she figured she'd go along with this and then tell a story to the press to get a career boost or something?

 

Doesn't really make sense to me at all, though.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Churchhoney

[kokapetl]

Here, among other places: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh-duggar-cheating-affair-mistress-ashley-madison-danica-dillon-68130

'Josh was violent with her when they had sex, he did not use protection and gave her thousands of dollars after their encounters.

Danica admits she “took the opportunity because Josh offered to gift [her] $1,500.”'

The "unprotected sex" is one of the reasons I've wondered whether the details of this Dillon woman's story were exaggeration from the beginning. As you say, hookers use condoms..... The only things that make me think, well, maybe she's telling the truth about the no protection, is that she's a sex performer but from what I gather not officially operating as a prostitute, so she hadn't really thought the thing through? Or maybe she was desperate for money -- because "gift her $1,500" doesn't in the least sound like a hooker talking about a professional, well employed person she arranged a date with? Too little money... and 'gift her'? really? It's pay. Or maybe, realizing who he was, she figured she'd go along with this and then tell a story to the press to get a career boost or something?

Doesn't really make sense to me at all, though.

I think Ms Dillon was trying to avoid incriminating herself, prostitution isn't legal. In doing that, she's also made her version of events questionable. Edited December 23, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Lemur]

I'm glad that I'm not the only person to notice that Josh's first Ashley Madison username was incredibly similar to my first AOL username .... that I set up when I was 14. 

[greenturtle36]

To the person who said "maybe anna wasn't fun in bed"... AND JOSH WAS?

whenever my "josh" would whine because I didn't like sex enough for his liking, I would say look: get on your hands and knees and rock yourself back and forth and see how incredibly bored you get after five seconds.

That's what sex was like for me.

[TresGatos]

With the stories being leaked about Josh probably not being home for Christmas, it made me wonder, shouldn't this "rehab" involve counseling that involves his wife? Shouldn't Josh and Anna be in marriage counseling if Anna seriously wants to save the marriage? Of course their form of marriage counseling would probably be to tell Anna to be a better wife to Josh. Be more sexually adventurous and available and whatnot.

[graefin]

For those expressing wonder that Anna has moved into the girls' dorm room, I think this goes a long way to explaining:

http://iblp.org/questions/what-umbrella-protection

 

From what I gather, in their culture, a woman is always to be under the authority of a man. This protects them from being assaulted by Satan, or whatever. Unmarried women are under the authority of their fathers; married women are under the authority of their husbands. Look at how all the unmarried daughters still live at home, under their dad's "protection," despite the fact that they are old enough to live on their own. Since Anna is currently without her husband to "protect" her, she needs her father or father-in-law to do it (I'm guessing staying in AR with four kids was more practical and palatable). Under this paradigm, there is no way she'd be allowed (or want?) to live on her own, even in a house that's right across the street. (Of course, there's also the cult element of keeping her close and controlled.)

[Ilovemylabs]

To the person who said "maybe anna wasn't fun in bed"... AND JOSH WAS?

whenever my "josh" would whine because I didn't like sex enough for his liking, I would say look: get on your hands and knees and rock yourself back and forth and see how incredibly bored you get after five seconds.

That's what sex was like for me.

Sigh!  Well, that was me.  What I said was he may have used that excuse to justify his AM account.  How can we know what either of them did or did not do in the privacy of their bedroom?  It is speculation on my part that he used that as an excuse to cheat.  Sorry sex was not so good for you all the time.

[greenturtle36]

Oh I am almost positive he used that excuse. They all do. As if they're any good themselves

[Chalby]

Here, among other places:  http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh-duggar-cheating-affair-mistress-ashley-madison-danica-dillon-68130

 

'Josh was violent with her when they had sex, he did not use protection and gave her thousands of dollars after their encounters.

 

Thank you for the reference regarding no condoms. I am in shock after reading it. I can't believe an escort actually went through with having unprotected sex. Unless, of course, she's not worried about contracting an STD because she already has one. This is so unfair to Anna. In fact, wives' responses to men behaving badly is not so much about the sex, but more to do with the abuse of trust and the exposure to STDs. It reminds me of when I researched sexuality in the Victorian Age and learned about all the wives who had unknowingly contracted and died from complications due to Syphillis. 

Oh my, I just realized that Josh could have easily told that escort that using a condom is against his religion as it interferes with God's plan with regards to pregnancy. Ick...

[kalamac]

I've known a few people who have worked as women of negotiable affection, and many of the ones who charge more per hour do so because they're having unprotected sex - more money, because more risk. So if Josh was paying a few thousand dollars, that could have been part of the reason why - as opposed to just costing him a few hundred.

[Churchhoney]

Thank you for the reference regarding no condoms. I am in shock after reading it. I can't believe an escort actually went through with having unprotected sex. Unless, of course, she's not worried about contracting an STD because she already has one. This is so unfair to Anna. In fact, wives' responses to men behaving badly is not so much about the sex, but more to do with the abuse of trust and the exposure to STDs. It reminds me of when I researched sexuality in the Victorian Age and learned about all the wives who had unknowingly contracted and died from complications due to Syphillis. 

Oh my, I just realized that Josh could have easily told that escort that using a condom is against his religion as it interferes with God's plan with regards to pregnancy. Ick...

 

All I know is that, if Danica and Josh really didn't use a condom, they're both nuts.

[Churchhoney]

I've known a few people who have worked as women of negotiable affection, and many of the ones who charge more per hour do so because they're having unprotected sex - more money, because more risk. So if Josh was paying a few thousand dollars, that could have been part of the reason why - as opposed to just costing him a few hundred.

 

I'm puzzled by why Josh would have so crazy to have this, given the risks to him from both a pregnancy with her and a potential STD with Anna. I've known a few people in the trade, too, and I've heard that some men say they really want condomless sex because they always use condoms with their girlfriends or whatever, and not using one is part of a fantasy they want fulfilled. .... That's obviously not the case with Josh. He never had to use a condom at his house. ... I suppose a reason could be that he's just a spoiled brat and didn't want to risk any diminishment of his pleasure. But it still makes me suspicious of the details of DD's story. Either she's lying about some details or she's as crazy and stupid as Josh and the Duggars are. Which I suppose wouldn't be surprising.

[awaken]

The comment about Anna maybe being close with Jana in a Gothard-y way and not as true besties, made me think, who exactly can, and has, she been able to speak honestly with about all of the awfulness of the possibility that Josh may have contracted an STD, could have given it to her, her need for testing, or that he could have impregnated other women?  To anyone, that would be a nightmare, but I'm sure sex itself is not an easy thing for her to just chat with her mom, or sister, or SILs, or MIL with, and broaching these topics would be even more difficult that just a conversation about "regular" sex.  Who, really, does she have around her who she is able to have those incredibly tough conversations with, who will give her good advice, be with her through seeking out testing, or "walking through" the aftereffects of any of that, should she actually have an STD, or find out Josh has a baby with another woman?  

 

It's just an awful thought, that she may have all these horrors and fears swirling through her mind, an no one to talk frankly with about the possible impacts on her health, and approaching sex from here on out.  I mean, even if she can talk to Jana and Jinger or Priscilla about these things.....they obviously have no experience with it, and probably have no clue about what to do about it (other than pray.  Or "offer it up".  "Lay it before the Lord", as you will).

Edited December 24, 2015 by awaken

[Sew Sumi]

I doubt Gothard permits married women to talk of sexual issues with unmarried ones. So that leaves MEchelle, Sierra, Prissy, and her mother as confidants. Not a stellar bunch there, to be sure.