Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GEML]

I know Va is easier to have a home birth (though neither state is that difficult) but Va regulates midwives more strictly for some reason? It's been years since I've looked at it, but I know you can have a birth in MD with only a midwife. I'm not sure you can do that in Va unless you are in a regulated birthing center with ties to a hospital. But that might have changed.

I always sort of wondered if that was the reason the lived in MD. The only other reason might be that housing in Prince George's County is less expensive than comparative counties in either state otherwise.

Edited December 7, 2014 by GEML

[3girlsforus]

It used to be illegal in VA to practice as a midwife unless you were a CNM. In the last few years, not exactly sure when but since I had my last child, they now license direct entry midwives. In MD,  you can not get a license as a direct entry midwife so acting as a midwife in MD if you are not a CNM is illegal. While these laws most often have consequences for the midwife much more than the mother, choosing an unlicensed practitioner can have legal ramifications for the parents if something goes wrong, will almost assuredly prohibit insurance covering the birth, and since Anna/Josh may give birth on TV, TLC may insist that they have legal medical assistance. 

 

 

Edited to add... if they truly chose MD over VA because they felt the laws for home birthing would be less, its just more proof that these people don't look past the actual breeding process. If they had looked at all they would know it's easier to homeschool in VA than MD and the school systems, even farther out, are far better than MD especially Prince George's County Md. which would have given them other options as well. If you have to make a choice between freedom of birthing and freedom of education... you choose freedom of education. 

Edited December 7, 2014 by 3girlsforus

[Absolom]

Considering Anna had two births in Arkansas that were filmed by TLC and not attended by anyone licensed to deliver babies, it doesn't seem TLC has any liability or at least is ignoring it if they do.

[3girlsforus]

Considering Anna had two births in Arkansas that were filmed by TLC and not attended by anyone licensed to deliver babies, it doesn't seem TLC has any liability or at least is ignoring it if they do.

Anna was attended by a midwife who might have been licensed. Arkansas allowed all kinds of midwives to practice. These things are regulated by state and some states are far more permissive than others. 

[TobyBelle]

 

 

Personally Josh looks to me like a lot of this is starting to dawn on him. He's woken up from the Duggar reality and finds himself in the real world with decisions he's made for his life that he can't undo (marriage, kids etc). Now he's freaking out. Young Josh may have always wanted this life but Young Josh didn't have a clue what that meant because his parents only gave him the rosy glow they wanted him to believe.

 

If this is true, this makes me think about what advice would he give his younger siblings when they come visit. Would he keep his mouth shut or risk the chance of stirring the pot with the parents? It would be interesting to see how the family dynamics will change as a result.

[jcbrown]

 

If you have to make a choice between freedom of birthing and freedom of education... you choose freedom of education.

You do if you have your priorities straight but these are the Duggars we're talking about. They fear education and revere birthing babies so the (wrong) choice would have been clear to them.

[NausetGirl]

I don't mean this question argumentative. How long does it take to look better after a full childhood of mild malnutrition? If Anna started cooking super healthy and Josh completely complied tomorrow, when would he have more color, etc.? I'm honestly asking because I don't know.

 

To me, Josh looked perfectly fine when the series began, and he was how old then? 18 maybe? I agree that none of the Duggar kids has ever really been fed the way doctors and dieticians would have liked, but he really looked fine until he was married.  Then his appearance seemed to take a real nose dive. First it was just chubby cheeks, then the overall weight gain, then the pasty complexion, the exhaustion, the lifeless eyes, the greasy hair etc. It's been really dramatic IMO. If he's not seriously ill, he's under an incredible strain or pressure or some kind. This kind of change doesn't happen for no reason at all.

[nws2002]

Just to be clear...unassisted home births are legal in all 50 states. There is zero legal requirement for any attendant, licensed or unlicensed. Nebraska has a minor quirk where the law doesn't allow the father to catch the baby unless it is an emergency.

 

In my mind, it would be easy to say, "oops, the baby was delivered at home before we could make it out the door". I fall firmly into the camp that there is nothing wrong with unattended home deliveries as long as the mother has adequate medical care during the pregnancy and no high risk conditions are known. It is a choice, and any of us has the right to refuse medical care.

[Barb23]

To me, Josh looked perfectly fine when the series began, and he was how old then? 18 maybe? I agree that none of the Duggar kids has ever really been fed the way doctors and dieticians would have liked, but he really looked fine until he was married. Then his appearance seemed to take a real nose dive. First it was just chubby cheeks, then the overall weight gain, then the pasty complexion, the exhaustion, the lifeless eyes, the greasy hair etc. It's been really dramatic IMO. If he's not seriously ill, he's under an incredible strain or pressure or some kind. This kind of change doesn't happen for no reason at all.

He'll probably have gray hair by the time M4 is born (if he hasn't already colored it).

[Darknight]

Just to be clear...unassisted home births are legal in all 50 states. There is zero legal requirement for any attendant, licensed or unlicensed. Nebraska has a minor quirk where the law doesn't allow the father to catch the baby unless it is an emergency.

In my mind, it would be easy to say, "oops, the baby was delivered at home before we could make it out the door". I fall firmly into the camp that there is nothing wrong with unattended home deliveries as long as the mother has adequate medical care during the pregnancy and no high risk conditions are known. It is a choice, and any of us has the right to refuse medical care.

I've heard of unassisted births, a mother has every right to choose that. However it's much better to get a midwife or other medical official to make sure things go smoothly. Childbirth is just one of those things that can go wrong fast

Private school where I live at costs $$$$. We're talking about 40-50k a year. And most parents who send their children to these schools have great careers (lawyers, doctors, investment bankers, etc) Catholic School might be an option hhere it costs less money than private school. There aren't that many christian schools but the ones that are here cost $7k a year.

I don't see Anna or Josh sending the kids to regular school. Unless the show isn't around then they might talk about it. I hope they live in a a state that requires a lot of paperwork like my state does (tests, portfolio, curriculum, etc) And if a child in my state fails a test then the homeschooling program is put on probation. I hope Josh and Anna actually let their kids get real educations and experiences.

[Absolom]

Anna was attended by a midwife who might have been licensed. Arkansas allowed all kinds of midwives to practice. These things are regulated by state and some states are far more permissive than others.

I'm afraid not.  Anna only had a licensed midwife for the third birth.  She had Miss Teresa for the first two and she is a doctor's wife and a Bradley childbirth instructor, but she is not a licensed midwife.  Arkansas does not allow "all kinds" of midwives to practice.  They have a state licensure program and at the time of the first two births her attendant was not licensed. 

[Barb23]

I just watched the Announcement video without sound & Smuggars expression, or lack there of, was kind of creepy.

I live in Maryland & checked out some of our homeschooling rules sites. It looks like they have to do the portfolio thing & they get visits from the superintendent's office. Also the kids can't attend anything at the schools (gym, art class etc) but they can be tested at the school if the parents want. They have to get a GED instead of a high school diploma. It sounds like a lot of the homeschool kids transfer to brick & mortar high schools so they can get a diploma. Just like Arkansas, the parents are the only ones that can do the teaching. The kids can have help/tutors but they can't be the main teacher.

I know Maryland's midwife licensing rules have changed in recent years, making it much harder to find one to do a home birth. From what I remember reading, most of the midwives have chosen to deliver in a birthing center or hospital due to malpractice & insurance rules. There are only a few midwives left that are doing home births.

[DamWrite]

Josh isn't planning on becoming a politician: http://www.eonline.com/news/604287/josh-duggar-reveals-anna-s-due-date-finally-decides-whether-or-not-he-s-ready-to-enter-politics

 

Good news for a Monday!

[ginger90]

Josh isn't planning on becoming a politician

 

Until God lays it on his heart.

[GEML]

Trust me, that answer screams, "I want to run but right now I don't have the money or support ."

That was a test balloon, and a note that if someone is interested in backing him, he might not have more children right away, if that's part of the deal.

It also says subtly, Daddy said no.

[JessDVD]

Yeah, what GEML said. I totally see "Josh is d.o.n.e" in that.

 

Also just a sidebar, if Anna is due in early June, she is more like 12-13 weeks now because I'm due July 13 and I'm 9 weeks today. The article says that she told TLC she was 9 weeks, so that would have been at least a month ago.

[bigskygirl]

Josh supporting people who are doing the right thing. Who died and made him God in deciding who is doing the right thing? Okay, I am going back to the heathen prayer closet. If anyone needs to find me, you know where I am at.

[Missy Vixen]

And if Jessa got PG on her honeymoon, she'll be due in late July - August, right? I'm sure TLC will IMPLODE from the baby fever! !!11!!!!

 

Yup, Josh is fishing for supporters.

[BitterApple]

Until God lays it on his heart.

Or until he can find some donors to pony up the money for his campaign:)

[truthtalk2014]

I must have been in the dark big time recently.  I did not know Josh and Anna announced they were having #4.   Wow.  I was really hoping Anna was going to enjoy the ones she already has for a while.  Guess she just couldn't stand seeing all those people around her catching babies. 

[RedheadZombie]

 I want Josh and Anna to complain LOUDLY how hard it is for Anna to be pregnant in DC.  If they do it often enough, JB and Michelle may be guilted into lending out sister mom Jana.  It would get Jana away from that freak show and give an extended peek at a life that is still religious and conservative, yet not so isolated.  That could lead into helping with the new baby, etc.  Even though she would still be a glorified servant, the work load is much much lighter, and unlike Michelle, Anna will not hand over complete care of the children, home, and schooling.  It would be like a vacation for Jana.  If she could make friends outside of  Gothard, she would have a glimpse at a better life.

[Vantraveller]

 I want Josh and Anna to complain LOUDLY how hard it is for Anna to be pregnant in DC.  If they do it often enough, JB and Michelle may be guilted into lending out sister mom Jana.  It would get Jana away from that freak show and give an extended peek at a life that is still religious and conservative, yet not so isolated.  That could lead into helping with the new baby, etc.  Even though she would still be a glorified servant, the work load is much much lighter, and unlike Michelle, Anna will not hand over complete care of the children, home, and schooling.  It would be like a vacation for Jana.  If she could make friends outside of  Gothard, she would have a glimpse at a better life.

I think if I was Jana I would rather stay in Arkansas. It would not be easy looking after a 5 yr old, two toddlers and a newborn. At least at home the kids are getting older and can do things for themselves.

[Jellybeans]

If Jana stays in Arkansas, she has to obey Ma and Pa Duggar. If she goes to DC, she has to obey only her conscience. (loosen up, woman!) I doubt Anna or Josh will tattle....

[Spencer Hastings]

If Jana stays in Arkansas, she has to obey Ma and Pa Duggar. If she goes to DC, she has to obey only her conscience. (loosen up, woman!) I doubt Anna or Josh will tattle....

We all know how Josh feels about tattling, per Jill's engagement special. He would let her do whatever she wanted, just to prove that he wouldn't "run and tell mother."

[floridamom]

What I'm afraid of for the Josh, Anna and Jana trio in DC would be that Jana would not be accountable to herself at all. I think their belief system is that an unmarried female has to have an authority figure and/or an accountability partner in her life, as she still wouldn't be able to go anywhere unaccompanied. Soooo, my friends, that leaves Josh as her authority figure and quite possible Anna as her accountability partner when Josh is unavailable. I couldn't imagine anything worse than that for that poor sweet young woman...they just can't seem to escape, can they?

[bigskygirl]

Josh posted about the repeal of 119 in Fayetteville, AR and supporting equality for ALL Fayetteville citizens on his twitter page. He would not know the true meaning of equality if a dictionary came up and bit him on his obnoxious, smug, know-it-all behind. ALL Fayetteville citizens , my Aunt Fanny!!!

[maraleia]

I'm so sick of his pontificating and how he uses his unaware wife and unsuspecting kids to push his agenda. He makes me want to throw up.

[bigskygirl]

UGH!!!  Don't get me started on Anna. I cannot stand her smugness and her poor me I cannot take care of three young children with another one on the way crap. I am waiting for the day when she does her own robo call message asking for people to take away certain groups rights.

 

I now have my own heathen prayer closet. Visitors are welcome.

[Sew Sumi]

Josh posted about the repeal of 119 in Fayetteville, AR and supporting equality for ALL Fayetteville citizens on his twitter page. He would not know the true meaning of equality if a dictionary came up and bit him on his obnoxious, smug, know-it-all behind. ALL Fayetteville citizens , my Aunt Fanny!!!

He's such a back-tracking piece of shit. Two days ago, he posted about 119, saying it gave CHRISTIANS equal rights (they believed the ordinance took their rights away...maybe their right to discriminate against a group they hate). He got positively SLAMMED in the comments, from what I heard. Surprising no one, he banned me from his twitter. Twice. 

 

This sounds like a "kinder, gentler"  replacement post that is still a fucking lie. 

 

I truly despise this asshole. 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Sew Sumi

[Missy Vixen]

I'm wondering if the Duggars might be getting a bit of push-back from TLC and Discovery Networks, who can't be pleased that their brand is being dragged through the mud by the bigoted Duggars.

 

Only someone schooled at the SOTDRT could believe the ordinance that passed was "anti-discrimination". I'm guessing Smuggar's reasoning ability must be dazzling.

[Sew Sumi]

He showed his true colors with the first twitter post. He believed that the ordinance discriminated against the already poor, persekoooted Christians. I read the tweet, That message came through loud and clear. I'm glad he got so slammed to the wall that he apparently had to delete that post, back-track, and try again, this time being "all-inclusive." Well, except that we know he (and his mother, who made that nasty robocall) are not. Of course, the rest of the family falls in lockstep, or else.

[Betweenyouandme]

What if Josh, Anna or one their kids needed life saving medical treatment and that the only person who could provide said treatment was from the LGBT community, what would their reaction be?

I don't know about if the person was the *only* one to help, but from personal experience in my family, there are patients who will demand to switch physician based on discriminatory reasons. It's really offensive, but at at a hospital near me, the doctors are told to respect the request. I was very surprised.

(My family member was the doctor, not the patient requesting a change)

Edited December 12, 2014 by Betweenyouandme

[Missy Vixen]

What if Josh, Anna or one their kids needed life saving medical treatment and that the only person who could provide said treatment was from the LGBT community, what would their reaction be?

What do you think the chances are that at least one of the medical team working to save J-Chelle and Josie The Precious Miracle Baby was LGBT? I'm guessing it's 100%.

 

Smuggar is a contemptible little POS, isn't he?

[Darknight]

Imagine if the Duggars got treated by a gay doctor, that saved their life. Or how about just because you're christians doesn't mean you have any right to take others freedom and rights

[bigskygirl]

God save their lives, not the doctor.

[galax-arena]

Imagine if the Duggars got treated by a gay doctor, that saved their life.

This is probably where “love the sinner, hate the sin” would come in*. And yet I wouldn’t be surprised if Josh Duggar and the FRC were really excited about Michigan’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which would provide a broad conscience clause allowing doctors and first responders to legally refuse to give life-saving assistance to a gay person if it violated their religious beliefs.

 

* After all, Josh has a GAY aunt! Did he tell you that? He has a GAY aunt whom he loves VERY much despite her immoral lifestyle. 

Edited December 12, 2014 by galax-arena

[bigskygirl]

Josh and crew probably would love some of the city clerks who would not fill out the paperwork for same sex couples to marry in Montana.

[Darknight]

This is probably where “love the sinner, hate the sin” would come in*. And yet I wouldn’t be surprised if Josh Duggar and the FRC were really excited about Michigan’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which would provide a broad conscience clause allowing doctors and first responders to legally refuse to give life-saving assistance to a gay person if it violated their religious beliefs.

* After all, Josh has a GAY aunt! Did he tell you that? He has a GAY aunt whom he loves VERY much despite her immoral lifestyle.

That's not christian like. And can a gay doctor refuse to treat a straight person? When your bedding out and dying who cares who treats you. Or like the Duggars don't go to the doctor just pray to God to heal you

[mbutterfly]

God save their lives, not the doctor.

However, I expect God finds it useful to have an actual person on the spot to do whatever you do to save the life of a mother with pre-eclampsia. 

[NausetGirl]

I, myself developed pre-eclampsia with my last child late in the pregnancy and YES, the "cure" was to deliver. I also needed medication and 23 years later, I am still on that blood pressure medication. I believe that it is both God's will and earthly medicine prescribed by doctors here on earth that work together.

God puts those capable people in our paths to complete His will for us.  Well said, as usual, "mbutterfly".

 

Yep. I've always found it really illogical that the Duggars believe "leaving it all up to God" when it comes to creating Life, but they run to mortal medical professionals as fast as the rest of us do when that life is threatened in any way.  Illogical - and maybe even hypocritical.  Now that would be an interesting TH question. "Why do you only leave the question of creating Life in God's hands? What about when that life needs preserving and you access health care like everyone else would?"

[maraleia]

Since we've made repeated requests for posters to stay on topic we will be deleting all posts in this thread and other threads that are off-topic. The posts in question will be for the month of December. This is your final warning.

[cereality]

I really wonder if Josh has had a single opportunity to make a friend of his own in DC -- not a relative of a Duggar or Bates family friend who happens to live in DC or some couple that TLC has set him and Anna up with or even a couple friend where Anna and the wife get together and the husbands get together. I mean a guy who just he knows -- through work, the gym, wherever. Because if I were him -- looking (and presumably feeling) the way he appears to be looking/feeling, I'd be turning to anyone I could who may be able to help me with the logistics of getting a vasectomy without jeopardizing my job. He does not look the least bit excited about #4 and think how much more stress he'll be feeling by the time Anna's ready to try for numbers 5 and 6 or the twins she's always wanted.

 

If I were him, I'd be telling her "sorry sweetie I have to go to Omaha for work for 4 days in Jan, you're on your own or maybe you should head to Arkansas or Fl," finding a friend to bunk with or absent that booking myself a Motel 6 for a few hundred, stocking it up with food etc, and calling a car service to drive me to and from the appointment and then holing up in the hotel room all week to recover while praying that there are no complications that he would have to tell his wife about.

 

As much as I'm not a Josh fan, I do think he is a good husband and dad, but I also think he is now in DC, looking around at guys his age who have what he wanted -- namely freedom, law school degrees, small families (or no families yet if they're his age) -- and is thinking DAMN I'm never going to have that, but I at least want to stay in DC and not be a car lot owner in Arkansas again. That's got to be taking a toll on him mentally -- how will I continue to provide financially in a town where Ivy Leaguers are a dime a dozen. Sure his job at FRC is great, but I doubt his pay goes up THAT much yearly. Even if that job lasts for a really long time, what's financially workable for a family of 5 is going to be hard when that family is up to 8 or 10. But then this is how he was raised and he presumably doesn't want to disappoint Anna or break their vows. I don't think he'd ever deceive her by getting the V, but honestly I wouldn't be that sad for her if he did.

 

She just does NOT get it. They were raised in a faith where he can't/won't just say "I don't want any more kids" -- at least not until they're into the double digits and her health is at risk. But a wife of 6 years would understand that he's staying that loud and clear (for their culture) by constantly saying "2-3 kids is plenty" or looking downright sick when she announced #4 or with his looks of horror on camera when she talks about 8 kids or twins or whatever. I feel like any normal wife would see those looks and gently try to figure out what was going on with her husband -- even if that meant hearing the sad fact that he doesn't want to procreate any further. But for Anna, it just seems like she's thinking -- you can look scared all you want, but God will provide -- so drop trou.

[Barb23]

I thought I read on one of the posts, that when they were deciding what house to rent in the DC area, Josh would have preferred the townhouse or condo that was closer to his work and/or the Metro. Too bad they didn't choose one of those instead of the larger house. That might have helped determine how many children to have. I know they could have just packed more kids in the smaller houses like his parents and even hers did, but the house they are in now has plenty of bedrooms for the kiddos.

[cmr2014]

I think Josh is having a mid-life crisis -- I think he went from 20 to 40 in just a couple of years.

 

Think about the enthusiastic clean cut boy of the 14 kids special who wanted to be a lawyer and go into politics, and look at the fat, balding man with 3 kids and a fourth on the way.

 

I think he envisioned his life as a successful politician with an attractive wife and 2-3 attractive children standing behind him as he gave his acceptance speech on election night. I think it's becoming more and more clear to him that that life is never going to happen.

 

I also think that he thought that he and Anna were on the same page about family size -- all the little inside jokes and knowing looks between them. She may have meant it, too, but the breeding thing is just too deeply ingrained in her, and the pressure was just too strong.

 

I don't particularly like Josh, and I loathe his politics, but I do feel sorry for him. His plans of going to law school are just not going to materialize -- and he must know it now. He would have to complete an undergraduate degree, and a law school degree with four small children at home -- and probably more before he finished school. Anna would never get a job and help out -- even if she had any marketable skills, they have small children and child-care costs would far outstrip what she could earn.

 

He's stuck at the FRC for as long as they'll have him, and then it's back to Arkansas and used cars. He's not going anywhere, and he know it.

[Darknight]

I think Josh is having a mid-life crisis -- I think he went from 20 to 40 in just a couple of years.

Think about the enthusiastic clean cut boy of the 14 kids special who wanted to be a lawyer and go into politics, and look at the fat, balding man with 3 kids and a fourth on the way.

I think he envisioned his life as a successful politician with an attractive wife and 2-3 attractive children standing behind him as he gave his acceptance speech on election night. I think it's becoming more and more clear to him that that life is never going to happen.

I also think that he thought that he and Anna were on the same page about family size -- all the little inside jokes and knowing looks between them. She may have meant it, too, but the breeding thing is just too deeply ingrained in her, and the pressure was just too strong.

I don't particularly like Josh, and I loathe his politics, but I do feel sorry for him. His plans of going to law school are just not going to materialize -- and he must know it now. He would have to complete an undergraduate degree, and a law school degree with four small children at home -- and probably more before he finished school. Anna would never get a job and help out -- even if she had any marketable skills, they have small children and child-care costs would far outstrip what she could earn.

He's stuck at the FRC for as long as they'll have him, and then it's back to Arkansas and used cars. He's not going anywhere, and he know it.

But Josh can change his future

[GEML]

My father did his PhD with three small children and a non-working wife, and I've known men with more children. He worked full time while doing it, and there were no on-line classes. It can be done.

He is going to have to learn to talk openly with Anna about what he wants and what it means for their family, and how it can mean more children later if they can just slow down now.

[Barb23]

I think Josh is having a mid-life crisis -- I think he went from 20 to 40 in just a couple of years.

Think about the enthusiastic clean cut boy of the 14 kids special who wanted to be a lawyer and go into politics, and look at the fat, balding man with 3 kids and a fourth on the way.

And that's been in just over 10 years. I'm sure Josh has run across others his age who have gotten their 4 yr degrvee & most likely more. These mid-20 yr olds are just making their way into the world with a job/career, being out on their own, marriage, possibly 1-2 children. He's had to think "That could have been me." I wonder if he puts the blame for further education on his parents.

I know it is possible he could go back to school while working but I think with his family (I mean the Josh & Anna family) it's not going to happen. As CMR stated without Anna working & having a decent salary to contribute, as well as daycare costs, which I can't picture anyway, it will be very costly & timely. I don't think Anna would understand the commitment &time it would take. When Josh should be studying, I can hear Anna saying "The kiddos haven't seen you all week while you were working so let's take them to the park, mall, etc." Or Anna would need to go to the grocery store & leave some of the kiddos home with him, when he should be studying.

I worked with a Physician Assistant who wanted to become a doctor. His wife is a well paid nurse & they had two younger children at the time (4 & 6 yr old). He said they both realized what a commitment it would be for the entire family. Just the time he needed to study for the MCAT exam (Med College Admission Test) was enormous. This wasn't even medical school. After working full time at our office, he would spend his weekends at the library or other places studying. (So he could concentrate, this was approx 25 yrs ago before computers & the internet were popular.) He did get accepted into medical school, which at his age then, 40, was tough. Luckily med school was in the next state, but he still had to live there. He did get his medical degree & is now a practicing physician. But without the commitment of his wife & family, he never could have done it. I don't think Anna has this type of commitment.

[fireice13]

 

He is going to have to learn to talk openly with Anna about what he wants and what it means for their family, and how it can mean more children later if they can just slow down now.

 

I agree with this. If he can convince Anna to at least be okay with them using condoms, then they can have a break between kids and maybe he could go to school and at least get an undergrad degree. It would be easier on Anna because if they had a break in between sets of kids then the first four would be older and could help out. I'm hoping that once Anna has a fourth and realizes how tough life is in DC without help and 4 kids that she'll come around to the same thinking.

 

I do think if in the next couple of years she gets pregnant with a fifth, Josh will try and figure out a way to have a vasectomy.

[bigskygirl]

Imo, I think Josh has seen what the real world is all about, and he realizes it is a lot different from the Duggar world. He has only been taught one way. He parrots what his parents has been preaching to him at a young age. He is not allowed to have his own thoughts and opinions. Josh is just selling the family's bill of religious and political views in a bigger more grand way. He has been taught education away from the family table is evil and leads to bad things. Josh is probably afraid he has nothing else to fall back on once the political D.C. gravy train comes to a complete stop. Will he be able to survive in D.C. or will he go back home with his tail between his legs.

 

And I am sorry for beating a dead horse, but Anna should not be expecting family aka her sister-in-laws to come running to hold her hand and help raise her children. Millions of women can handle it on a daily basis so can poor, poor Anna.

[GEML]

I does seem that the breaking point comes between either the third and fourth child, or the fourth and fifth one.  At this point, there are just too many people's needs that no two parents can meet, and the children are all still young that no older child can help you meet them.  If you are the type of family that refuses to send a child to preschool or hire a nanny or do some other form of outside assistance (and I'd include bringing in family long term as outside assistance -- and I mean long-term - two weeks is not enough) then maybe you get through it, but most large families do show signs of struggle during this period unless having children really is their only goal.