Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Jellybeans]

I live in less than 1000 sq feet with three people. Seems ok to me.

[kokapetl]

That's a classic entitlement mindset.

I'd like a 3,000 sq ft home. Why can't I have one? Well in our area of the country, we can afford a 2,000 sq ft home and we make it work, and we don't think we're owed anything.

No one is entitled to cheap labor, people are entitled to a living wage.

I don't think the underclass or any class need large houses for their families, but people need to be paid enough to live, and if they can't do that, no one should expect these people show up to work.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Kokapetl

[JoanArc]

 

JoanArc, Josh was probably stuffing his fat face at Taco Bell while everyone was working.

Chic-Fil-A. They forgive him. :)

 

 

Not to diminish what Josh did, but I can think of a lot worse crimes.

Granted, crimes against humanity are worse. Still, I'd have routed those workers to habitat for humanity, instead of helping a repentant-ish molester golden boy put in a new toilet. Of course, maybe they see it as helping Anna, more than helping Josh. I sympathize with that.

 

 

That's a classic entitlement mindset.

So's the 'eternal life' gag, but that's a topic for the religion thread...

Edited June 30, 2015 by JoanArc

[ariel]

Not to diminish what Josh did, but I can think of a lot worse crimes.  Two children were crucified by ISIS in the Mideast this week because they ate during the fasting period during Ramadan.  Children are not required to fast, unless I guess you are a member of ISIS.

Please take your ISIS issues to an appropriate forum here. What you posted has nothing to due with Josh.

Edited June 30, 2015 by ariel

[Vaysh]

That's a classic entitlement mindset.

I'd like a 3,000 sq ft home. Why can't I have one? Well in our area of the country, we can afford a 2,000 sq ft home and we make it work, and we don't think we're owed anything.

I really don't see how it's entitled to want to be able to support yourself and your family (a reasonably sized one anyway) on a full-time job. That's the point of a full-time job. If you work full-time or more and you still can't make ends meet, someone is taking advantage of you. Now, true entitlement is someone like Josh expecting to get handed things like a car dealer ship, a reality show, a house or a cushy job without doing anything much in return. Or the Duggars in general expecting hand-outs and love offerings from family, friends or perfect strangers just because they're so holy and awesome and Christian.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Vaysh

[Flowers]

No one is entitled to cheap labor, people are entitled to a living wage.

I don't think the underclass or any class need large houses for their families, but people need to be paid enough to live, and if they can't do that, no one should expect these people show up to work.

It depends on HOW people live. If you're paying for several cell phones and keep having children you can't afford to feed and insist on certain types of vehicles, you aren't using your money wisely.

If you want to live a certain way, including having a family, you aim for a certain kind of job, work more than one job, and so on.

This topic is way OT, so I'm ending my contribution here.

I really don't see how it's entitled to want to be able to support yourself and your family (a reasonably sized one anyway) on a full-time job. That's the point of a full-time job. If you work full-time or more and you still can't make ends meet, someone is taking advantage of you. Now, true entitlement is someone like Josh expecting to get handed things like a car dealer ship, a reality show, a house or a cushy job without doing anything much in return. Or the Duggars in general expecting hand-outs and love offerings from family, friends or perfect strangers just because they're so holy and awesome and Christian.

An example of a minimum wage job when I was growing up was McDonalds. All the teenagers worked there, and kept moving on to better jobs after that. Now we expect undocumented immigrants to be able to support their families with such jobs. Those kinds of jobs aren't meant for that,

[bigskygirl]

The off topic discussion of Isis, entitlements, low paying service jobs, big vs. small houses flight has taken off and is trying to find an airport to land at. Lets give the flight crew and passengers a rest by going back to the to the main thread topic at hand. The talk has plenty of other places to take off in the discussion social media sky. Potentially heated off topic posts or discussions trying to sneak in and take a seat on the plane will be edited or hidden by your mod flight attendants. Any questions or concerns, please push your PM button above your posting seat to get the attention of the mods. Thank you.

[CofCinci]

Doesn't look like Josh is working on his house. Classic Josh.

[lookeyloo]

Or they didn't include him (for various reasons) in any pictures.

[Sew Sumi]

I get what you're saying. However, the home's location or owner wasn't identified. No reason Josh couldn't have been pictured helping on "someone else's" house. *wink* 

 

If the stories are true, then Josh has bodyguards protecting him and the TTH, anyway. Seriously, showing him helping out might IMPROVE his image right about now. He's shown that he's ready to "come out" as it were. At present, it looks like he's hiding behind Jana's circular saw. 

[Vaysh]

bigskygirl: sorry to add to the OT but that is quite possibly the best OT warning I have read on any board ever. I shall remain quitely in my seat and keep my belt on.

[Churchhoney]

I get what you're saying. However, the home's location or owner wasn't identified. No reason Josh couldn't have been pictured helping on "someone else's" house. *wink* 

 

If the stories are true, then Josh has bodyguards protecting him and the TTH, anyway. Seriously, showing him helping out might IMPROVE his image right about now. He's shown that he's ready to "come out" as it were. At present, it looks like he's hiding behind Jana's circular saw. 

It would certainly do more for his image than being photographed eating ice cream in a public place, while talking about how wonderful his marriage is. If you can go to ice-cream parlors or whatever and get the resulting photos published in the celebrity media, you aren't exactly on total safety-related lockdown.

[Vermicious Knid]

They're all so tone-deaf none of them realized that to most people (i.e.the non-fundys) it makes him look arrogant and unrepentant. He only had to confess in front of his church/family/Elders and not the larger community? I wouldn't think him anything but a creep but going down on his knees and re-enacting the Jimmy Swaggert "I have sinned!" speech would go a long way towards placating the fanbase.

[Darknight]

I bet Anna is relieved to be able to have a baby without a camera shoved in her face, for the first time, since entering this circus.

Relieved? ? Anna probably is crying puddles that no one gives a shit about baby number 4

[Fuzzysox]

Looks like they're still renovating Josh's new house: https://instagram.com/p/4ippaHxhF-/?taken-by=joe_donaldson_1

Who is this Joe guy and , gasp, why is his wife working and wearing skinny jeans?

Edited July 1, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[CofCinci]

Who is this Joe guy and , gasp, why is his wife working and wearing skinny jeans?

Looking at his Instagram - dude has some money. Does he own that furniture store the Duggars promote? If I didn't know better, I'd think he was a Duggar/popped out of clown car judging by the amount of Duggar pics he posts.

If Josh was at his new house helping others remodel, they wouldn't have taken so many pics and videos there. Dude is still in seclusion. I wonder if he will eventually speak to the media?

Edited July 1, 2015 by CofCinci

[Porkchop]

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/breaking-victim-suing-josh-duggar-for-sexual-abuse-severe-emotional-trauma/

 

According to this report, Josh is being sued by the babysitter. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by Porkchop

[GreyBunny]

I doubt the daughter of a family friend was really a babysitter, at least to the Duggars.  JimBob probably began using the word "babysitter" because it makes it seem like the girl was older than she was at the time to minimize Josh's crimes. 

 

I hope she wins and wins big.

Edited July 1, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Fuzzysox]

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/breaking-victim-suing-josh-duggar-for-sexual-abuse-severe-emotional-trauma/

 

According to this report, Josh is being sued by the babysitter. 

We are talking about this in the Media thread.

[SoSueMe]

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/breaking-victim-suing-josh-duggar-for-sexual-abuse-severe-emotional-trauma/

 

According to this report, Josh is being sued by the babysitter.

Oh Geez, "conservative superstar" ???? LMAO

[Flowers]

Anna is surely seething that this is coming to light as she's about to birth M4.

[Fuzzysox]

Anna is surely seething that this is coming to light as she's about to birth M4.

I was thinking the same thing. She certainly doesn't deserve this. I hope she gives birth and rethinks having any more. I couldn't imagine having anymoire kids with that piece of shit no matter how much God has forgiven him. *puke*

[msblossom]

^^^Will she, though? Regardless of Josh's crimes and the media attention, and now the lawsuit from the 5th victim, it seems that Anna is devoted to Josh and to adding to their quiverful as much as ever. I think it's more likely that Josh puts the kibosh on adding to the family more so than Anna.

[Sew Sumi]

I agree. If Anna really knew about this (and she will be subpeonaed to ascertain what she knew and when) and still decided to marry him, she's all-in. I have a feeling what she knew was more vague, and she may well have had a crisis of faith, but she appears to be putting up a unified front, at least for the time being. 

 

If she did know the full extent of this before they married, I have absolutely no sympathy for her, regardless of what she may believe about forgiveness and redemption. I can't imagine what it's like living with Josh now. I doubt he's totally brushing this off as old news, although that's what he wants the leghumpers to believe with his forays into social media. 

[Quof]

I agree. If Anna really knew about this (and she will be subpeonaed to ascertain what she knew and when)

 

Anna can't be subpoenaed to testify against her spouse. And what she knew is irrelevant anyway, since it was years after the fact.  I don't recall the timeline of the 5th victim compared to the others. If she was the first, it really doesn't matter what people knew after the fact. If she was number 2, 3, 4, or 5, then it becomes relevant who knew about the earlier victims and could have taken steps to prevent it from happening again. 

[Zahdii]

The woman who is suing was, according to the police report, the last known victim of Josh.

 

If this suit goes forward, who all will be deposed? 

 

JB&M

Josh

Jill

Jessa

at least one other Duggar daughter

possibly some of the older children?

The cop that's in jail?

The cop that took the statements for the police report?

The CSD workers who may have spoken with the family?

The church 'Elders'?

The guy who Josh worked for, and called it 'therapy'?

Anyone who was in church the day that Josh supposedly 'confessed'?

Of course the fifth victim and probably her parents.

 

Who else?  That's already a lot of people to track down and depose.  Unless the Duggars settle, this could go on for quite a while.

[CofCinci]

The woman who is suing was, according to the police report, the last known victim of Josh.

If this suit goes forward, who all will be deposed?

JB&M

Josh

Jill

Jessa

at least one other Duggar daughter

possibly some of the older children?

The cop that's in jail?

The cop that took the statements for the police report?

The CSD workers who may have spoken with the family?

The church 'Elders'?

The guy who Josh worked for, and called it 'therapy'?

Anyone who was in church the day that Josh supposedly 'confessed'?

Of course the fifth victim and probably her parents.

Who else? That's already a lot of people to track down and depose. Unless the Duggars settle, this could go on for quite a while.

https://imgflip.com/i/nouno

[Lemur]

My experience is that you can announce your intent to file to start the ball rolling toward a settlement.  I'm not saying that is the case here, but it seems to be how it goes. 

[Satchels of gold]

I hope the victim is actually going to file, but even if the story is false it keeps the Duggars misdeeds in the media and I'm ok with that. I hope stories keep coming out until this family goes away. I'm sure they thought the Fox interview would be the end of this scandal.....little did they know they would be pouring gasoline on the fire.

[Seashell Lover]

Lets say this is true I wonder when they question Smuggar will he answer the questions like he did in the past by saying you have to ask my dad?

[NEGirl]

He will have to answer the questions himself - he is an adult. I believe he will also have to have a different attorney than JB and MeChelle - it would be a conflict of interest to have the same attorney.  Hope she wins a ton of money - that's the only way to hurt JB.

Edited July 2, 2015 by NEGirl

[OhioMom]

I agree. If Anna really knew about this (and she will be subpeonaed to ascertain what she knew and when) and still decided to marry him, she's all-in. I have a feeling what she knew was more vague, and she may well have had a crisis of faith, but she appears to be putting up a unified front, at least for the time being. 

 

If she did know the full extent of this before they married, I have absolutely no sympathy for her, regardless of what she may believe about forgiveness and redemption. I can't imagine what it's like living with Josh now. I doubt he's totally brushing this off as old news, although that's what he wants the leghumpers to believe with his forays into social media. 

That is, assuming any of them tell the truth under oath.

[BitterApple]

I have mixed feelings on the civil suit. For one, this woman's name hasn't been made public so it's not like millions of people have figured out her identity the way they did with the Duggar girls. For another, I find it distasteful to sue for money when the family didn't bother to press criminal charges a decade ago. So it was no big deal when it happened, but now that the Duggars are worth millions and there's gold to dig, she's coming out of the woodwork. It just rubs me the wrong way.

[Fuzzysox]

^^^Will she, though? Regardless of Josh's crimes and the media attention, and now the lawsuit from the 5th victim, it seems that Anna is devoted to Josh and to adding to their quiverful as much as ever. I think it's more likely that Josh puts the kibosh on adding to the family more so than Anna.

Once Josh has NO job and is not hire-able anywhere I'm sure their life plan will have to be altered. *Gasp* Anna might have to go on.....birth control.........or Josh needs to get the big V going otherwise they will just be another poor family with lots of kids.

[Skittl1321]

I have mixed feelings on the civil suit. For one, this woman's name hasn't been made public so it's not like millions of people have figured out her identity the way they did with the Duggar girls. For another, I find it distasteful to sue for money when the family didn't bother to press criminal charges a decade ago. So it was no big deal when it happened, but now that the Duggars are worth millions and there's gold to dig, she's coming out of the woodwork. It just rubs me the wrong way.

I'm very much of the opinion that she may feel she has a lot more information now than she did then.

 

Hearing the family pass it off as if nothing was wrong might have made her rethink the "forgiveness" the church probably made her offer to Josh. 

 

Or she may not have known that it was a KNOWN ISSUE by the parents when she was put in the position of sleeping on the couch at their house (away from the "locked in a separate room" safety the other girls got.)  She now knows that these "safeguards" were put in place, but not for her.

 

Or perhaps she was just really pissed off that Josh is, once again, getting away with no repercussions. After all he was "sly". The people he molested didn't even know he had done something wrong.  Time gives victims a chance to process what happened. What maybe as a child she thought was "no big deal, the church elders are saying it was fine" she has realized was NOT okay.

 

I have no problem with her choosing to go after the Duggars.

[Cherrio]

I hope she brings suit too.    I hope the Duggars lose everything.   Maybe child protective services can rescue the little kids.

            I will buy the TTH at auction, have a haz-mat crew come in to clean it and turn it into an LGBT community center.

[galax-arena]

I find it distasteful to sue for money when the family didn't bother to press criminal charges a decade ago. So it was no big deal when it happened, but now that the Duggars are worth millions and there's gold to dig, she's coming out of the woodwork.

But why should that be a problem, if this woman really is being motivated by money? Why do we demand that molestation victims be saints who have no monetary or materialistic motives? Does that make them less worthy of consideration?

 

Aside from that, I think you're making some big assumptions about why criminal charges might not have been filed. Chances are, back then, she was part of their fundie IFB world and under the control of other people like her parents, church elders, etc. So maybe bringing criminal charges simply wasn't an option back then. Perhaps she's more independent now and in charge of her own decisions. I think it's unwarranted to say that she must have thought that it was no big deal because criminal charges weren't filed.

 

And yeah... maybe she was pissed off at seeing the Duggars handwave away her pain. I definitely would be. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by galax-arena

[Nysha]

 

Once Josh has NO job and is not hire-able anywhere I'm sure their life plan will have to be altered. *Gasp* Anna might have to go on.....birth control.........or Josh needs to get the big V going otherwise they will just be another poor family with lots of kids.

This assumes a level of responsibility and self-awareness that I haven't seen from any of the Duggars. I would bet that Josh & Anna continue having "all the children God gives us" believing that God will provide for their family. While I think they're thisclose to worshiping the Almighty Dollar as much as they worship the Almighty Father, I do think they still believe everything they've been taught by Gothard and their parents.

[Quof]

Or she may not have known that it was a KNOWN ISSUE by the parents when she was put in the position of sleeping on the couch at their house (away from the "locked in a separate room" safety the other girls got.)  She now knows that these "safeguards" were put in place, but not for her.

 

How did they explain to the babysitter that the girls' bedroom door was to remain locked???

[Cherrio]

That is, assuming any of them tell the truth under oath.

Truth?     

 Ok, children.....let us all spell perjury.  P E R J U R Y            

 

    19 Cells and Counting.     

[Cherrio]

I have mixed feelings on the civil suit. For one, this woman's name hasn't been made public so it's not like millions of people have figured out her identity the way they did with the Duggar girls. For another, I find it distasteful to sue for money when the family didn't bother to press criminal charges a decade ago. So it was no big deal when it happened, but now that the Duggars are worth millions and there's gold to dig, she's coming out of the woodwork. It just rubs me the wrong way.

How do you know it was no big deal years ago?     She was and is a victim of molestation.  It can affect people in a million different ways.  At least for me I have read numerous times that victims of abuse often do nothing or years later take action.   

        I would never ever call a victim of sexual molestation a gold digger.   Now, that's highly distasteful.     

        All power to victims.      

[Lemur]

I don't find it distasteful either.  There are quite a few victims of childhood molestation who experience a sort of delayed trauma once they stop rationalizing away the behavior.  Also, there is a school of thought in regards to throwing off the "rape shield" and claiming the experience as a way to get past it and fully recover.  And lastly, I'm with Suz.  I'm not going to shame this person by calling her a gold-digger.  The fact that these people have evaded justice angries up my blood to no end.  If this is the only justice this person can get is in the form of a monetary pay-out, so be it.  Circumstances dictated earlier that she be denied, so let her have at it now. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by Lemur

[kokapetl]

In her 2006 police interview, the babysitter said she was informed 3-4 years prior that Josh had touched her breasts while she slept, and that she remembered spending the night at the Duggar house, but she didn't remember the assault. The statute of limitation is 3 years from discovery of the injury. It looks like an uphill battle to me.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Lemur]

In her 2006 police interview, the babysitter said she was informed 3-4 years prior that Josh had touched her breasts while she slept, and that she remembered spending the night at the Duggar house, but she didn't remember the assault. The statute of limitation is 3 years from discovery of the injury. It looks like an uphill battle to me.

 

In cases of sexual abuse/molestation the statute of limitations starts when the victim begins to experience the effects of abuse.  That's different from discovery of injury. Or at least that's what various lawyer-types commenting on the case are saying.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Lemur

[zenme]

I have mixed feelings on the civil suit. For one, this woman's name hasn't been made public so it's not like millions of people have figured out her identity the way they did with the Duggar girls. For another, I find it distasteful to sue for money when the family didn't bother to press criminal charges a decade ago. So it was no big deal when it happened, but now that the Duggars are worth millions and there's gold to dig, she's coming out of the woodwork. It just rubs me the wrong way.

 

I am related to a person who was molested as a young boy and never said anything.  He kept it in and wound up abusing drugs for over 20 years just to numb the pain.  One day, while watching a story about molestation on a news program he broke down crying and finally revealed to his mother what had happened.  I think this was freeing for him.  I don't know if it's a coincidence that he was finally able to combat a serious drug problem after that, despite several previous rehab stints. 

 

I say she deserves to have her say, and Josh has to be made to pay for whatever damage he's done.  Maybe this woman has finally found the courage to speak up, as this type of abuse can affect one's self-esteem.  Or maybe she's married now, and it affects her sexual relationship with her husband.  Who knows? Maybe she's just tired to seeing her abuser and family on tv and acting so high and mighty and judgmental.  Jessa had no business speaking for this lady, so I'm glad this woman will have her voice heard.  What would Josh do if, God forbid, someone did this to one of his children?

[kokapetl]

In cases of sexual abuse/molestation the statute of limitations starts when the victim begins to experience the effects of abuse. That's different from discovery of injury. Or at least that's what various lawyer-types commenting on the case are saying.

Here's a link to the code. Based on that and the police report, I still think this person has their work cut out for them. I'm not a lawyer, so there's a fair chance I'm wrong on this. Edited July 2, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Lemur]

Here's a link to the code. Based on that and the police report, I still think this person has their work cut out for them. I'm not a lawyer, so there's a fair chance I'm wrong on this.

 

We'll see how it plays out, if the suit ever gets filed.  I'm sure there will be a finding of fact as to whether or not the court has jurisdiction.

[Ljohnson1987]

Jill, Anna and Jessa are teaching their children that inappropriate touching should be swept under the rug, rather than looked at as a crime. That's sad. They all need to wake up! What Smugs did was wrong, and they should want justice.

[GEML]

Again, I don't think this person may be upset so much as angry that she has lost the right to her own story. The civil suit may be less about money and more about keeping them from speaking about the events that happened as if she has agreed to their version of events.

[galax-arena]

I agree that it's more likely about something other than the financial compensation, I'm just saying that even if she were being solely motivated by money, it wouldn't change how I feel (which is that she deserves each and every last cent she can wring out of them).