Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GEML]

There can be a body guard to keep photographers away. Why should anyone but the Duggars and TLC make money from photographs of the Duggars? It doesn't have to be about death threats.

But I'm another who feels badly for the younger family. Assuming (and it's only an assumption) that Josh did turn his life around, they are going back to a life that will be far more constricting than the one they left. I'm not minimizing what he did - I just really hate seeing any young person mess up their lives so utterly that young. I'd say that about anyone, especially in this situation where it isn't something that necessarily continues into adulthood. I also hate that his children's lives will now be so controlled by JB and Michelle.

[Wellfleet]

I thought it was very interesting and telling that this time they hired movers.  What's wrong Joshie?  The whole brood didn't want to come help you move?  Stop by for a little baby shower at the Bates for M4?  Hmmm...

 

No cameras - no giant family moving crew. Besides to help, they'd have to leave the TTH. And I don't think anyone's straying too far from home right at the moment.

I think TLC is definitely supplying/paying for a bodyguard because it is always the same one!?!  Is he the only one who comes up in google?  LOL

 

Agree. I doubt that Steve Whosis was Josh's choice.

[NikSac]

I don't think anyone wants to hurt Anna or the m's.  

 

Josh  - now that is another story.

 

I doubt anyone wants to hurt Anna or the kids, but I can see some misguided person thinking they were "saving" the kids or "helping" them by, for example, kidnapping them. Plus of course there may be people who want to take out their anger on Josh.  If I were any of them, I'd want a bodyguard too. 

[Absolom]

TLC seems to have a contract with the security firm for which Steve works.  He's been seen around the talent of several of their shows.  From the stories over the years they are there mainly to keep fans and photographers/paps from getting too close to the filming or to keep them from harassing the talent.  

[Honey]

The Duggar family is under investigation again by the Arkansas Department of Human Services and police were called when the family refused to cooperate, In Touch magazine is reporting exclusively in its new issue that hits newsstands today.

A representative from the Washington County DHS called 911 on May 27 at around 11 a.m. asking for police assistance when DHS was not allowed to see the minor they were concerned about. In Touch, which broke the story of Josh Duggar’s sexual molestation scandal, has the full transcript of the emergency call in the new issue.

The new investigation comes as the family tries to save its TLC reality show, 19 Kids and Counting, which the network pulled off the air, while determining its fate. Jim Bob, Michelle and two of their daughters sat for interviews with Fox News, attempting to minimize the damage, but much of what they said was widely condemned as misinformation and not full disclosure.

The Duggars made no mention of the fact that they have been under investigation again, but In Touch discovered what they are hiding via another Freedom of Information Act request that produced the 911 call.

After identifying himself as a Washington Country DHS employee and stating the Duggar family address, the caller tells the 911 operator, “We have an investigation and I guess they’re not being cooperative. We have to see the child to make sure the child is all right. So we just need police assistance.”

 

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/new-investigation-launched-against-duggar-family-911-called-60330

Edited June 10, 2015 by Honey

[BitterApple]

I don't let random people into my home, so I can't fault the Duggars for how they handled the DHS worker. If you're legit, you can come back with the cops and then we'll talk. Given how badly the Duggars got screwed with the release of the police report I wouldn't trust anyone from the system either.

Edited June 11, 2015 by BitterApple

[DangerousMinds]

I think DHS generally tries to make appointments with families to come by, instead of just showing up announced, unless it's an emergency situation.

[Barbie]

The title of this thread is making me think it might be a good idea for Josh to change his name to Smugger or Keller and move to Alaska... Can you do that?  

Just change your name, if there is no fraud involved and you just want to start over?  

[DangerousMinds]

I am in the camp that hoped they'd head to Florida and Anna's family, at least for a while, instead of back to Arkansas.

[Bella]

The title of this thread is making me think it might be a good idea for Josh to change his name to Smugger or Keller and move to Alaska... Can you do that?  

Just change your name, if there is no fraud involved and you just want to start over?  

 

In a word, yes, though it's more complicated than that.

 

Many years after I became an adult and moved from my childhood home, a person who had been a neighbor became Facebook friends with me. My friend eventually decided to track down a missing sibling. The private detective found that this sibling had moved to another country, changed both first and last names, and was unwilling to contact anyone from childhood, including family members. (There had been abuse within the family....)

 

So it's possible for Josh to change his name, sure. However, when it comes to starting over as a completely different person with a new identity, professional and educational credentials, Social Security number, credit background - all that would have to be finessed somehow. I imagine it's possible to hire someone to help with that, but I personally wouldn't know where to begin.

[Absolom]

I don't think he can change his social security number legally and probably not the credit record.  Although changing the name is not all that difficult.  He'd have to get the actual credentials as he really has none now so they might as well be in the new name.

[galax-arena]

I imagine it's possible to hire someone to help with that, but I personally wouldn't know where to begin.

1. Run afoul of the mafia.

2. Turn into an FBI informant.

3. Join the Witness Protection Program.

4. The FBI takes care of all the pesky identification change details for you.

5. ???

6. Profit!

 

Easy as pie. 

[FakeJoshDuggar]

I don't let random people into my home, so I can't fault the Duggars for how they handled the DHS worker. If you're legit, you can come back with the cops and them we'll talk. Given how badly the Duggars got screwed with the release of the police report I wouldn't trust anyone from the system either.

Well I have nothing to hide so if CPS shows up with the right identification, then come on in and please excuse the mess.

They didn't get screwed by DHS. They got screwed because they put their family on television as the paragon of traditional Christian values when they knew that that facade was a lie. Under Arkansas law, records that include sexual assault of a minor cannot be sealed. Josh Duggar, Child Molester™ was an adult when DHS got involved in 2006 and DHS got involved because his victims were then and still minors. If you murder someone when you're 15 and aren't caught until you're 19, your records aren't sealed because you were a minor at the time of the crime.

Either way, the Duggars were naive to believe that their secrets would stay hidden because of their shell veneer of wholesome, white, Christian values. They live in a right wing bubble which they believed would protect them from any speculation and in depth probing.

EDIT: I legit know the difference between the your and you're.

Edited June 11, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[MarysWetBar]

Perhaps he'll guard Anna the same way he guarded Kate Gosslin? (With his penis).

Anna: You in danger, girl.

http://youtu.be/uxBfukKmATo

Thanks for maKing the water fly out my nostrils. Didn't know i could do a trick like that!

[FakeJoshDuggar]

I don't think he can change his social security number legally and probably not the credit record. Although changing the name is not all that difficult. He'd have to get the actual credentials as he really has none now so they might as well be in the new name.

Yeah, if people can find members of the Manson family after 50 years, there's not a country where Josh Duggar, Child Molester™ could hide without being recognized.

Maybe they could relocate to the Galapagos islands?

Edited June 11, 2015 by FakeJoshDuggar

[anony mouse]

Maybe things are done differently in Arkansas, but I find it odd that the caseworker called 911 over this. In my state, the caseworker would contact LE directly, unless there was some sort of Josh Powell emergency situation going down. Further, I'm not sure what LE could do for them without a warrant. Either Arkansas runs the show very differently, or something hinky is going on.

[Jellybeans]

I don't think he can change his social security number legally and probably not the credit record.  Although changing the name is not all that difficult.  He'd have to get the actual credentials as he really has none now so they might as well be in the new name.

You can change your social security number legally. Info is at your local SSA office.

[Jellybeans]

One thing that does bother me is we are not the jury, judge or DA. He has yet to be convicted or even arrested. Yes, I read the report. Sick.

And they are still a family.

But only our legal system can go after Michelle, Jim Bob and Josh, whether we like it or not.

[Wellfleet]

Well I have nothing to hide so if CPS shows up with the right identification, then come on in and please excuse the mess.

They didn't get screwed by DHS. They got screwed because they put their family on television as the paragon of traditional Christian values when they knew that that facade was a lie. Under Arkansas law, records that include sexual assault of a minor cannot be sealed. Josh Duggar, Child Molester™ was an adult when DHS got involved in 2006 and DHS got involved because his victims were then and still minors. If you murder someone when you're 15 and aren't caught until you're 19, you're records aren't sealed because you were a minor at the time of the crime.

Either way, the Duggars were naive to believe that their secrets would stay hidden because of their shell veneer of wholesome, white, Christian values. They live in a right wing bubble which they believed would protect them from any speculation and in depth probing.

 

Yes. When you read or watch comments on the Josh scandal, in print and on TV, from the Washington Post to Gawker, from Anderson Cooper and Rachel Maddow, from Bill Maher and Larry Wilmore down through all the entertainment news shows, the primary thing nearly all have objected to the most, other than the acts of abuse themselves, is that the Duggars went ahead with the TV show after they learned what Josh had done. Most had other issues as well, but this is the common denominator in almost all of them. The Duggars were naive to do this and deliberately so, because they chose to live so isolated a life. This to me is one of the biggest problems with Gothard and all his rules - it is so shortsighted. They isolated themselves thinking it would protect them and their kids from all the world's evils, never considering for a minute that it would prevent "good knowledge" from reaching them as well.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Wellfleet

[frenchtoast]

Folks, can we get a cease and desist on the legal speculation. This is a reality show, not a courtroom drama. We haven't seen the documents so it's hard to say for certain what is actually happening. Much like the language, it's a such touchy territory. Let's not get into too much.

 

Thanks!

[Lemur]

well, it seems my very first post was deleted...

i'll try again. is it terrible hard to believe josh may be sorry for what he did?

Honestly, I don't know. I really don't. As far as I'm concerned that's between him, his victims and their Higher Power. I'm more concerned about the lack of concern for society at large, and the fact that the family covered this up. So I guess this goes back to your question, and I don't know if I do believe Josh. I don't know if I believe he was completely truthful in regards to who his victims are. Edited June 11, 2015 by Lemur

[Honey]

Yeah, if people can find members of the Manson family after 50 years, there's not a country where Josh Duggar, Child Molester™ could hide without being recognized.

Maybe they could relocate to the Galapagos islands?

All Josh would have to hear is that there are Boobies in the Galapagos Islands and he'd be there.  We know they're Blue-Footed Boobys, but SOTDRT educated Josh, wouldn't know that.

[MrsChappy]

so much WORD to this! I've been wondering if they could have really been that arrogant or ignorant to think this wouldn't come out. Your post makes total sense. They really don't get how the real world works.

[JoanArc]

Maybe things are done differently in Arkansas, but I find it odd that the caseworker called 911 over this. In my state, the caseworker would contact LE directly, unless there was some sort of Josh Powell emergency situation going down. Further, I'm not sure what LE could do for them without a warrant. Either Arkansas runs the show very differently, or something hinky is going on.

I'd just assumed it was a true emergency, or the the state workers felt threatened in some way. I can think of lots of ways that could happen with the Duggar temper.

 

EDIT: It's also been a rough month in the Duggar house. Sometimes minors call CPS on their own families. You never know.

Edited June 11, 2015 by JoanArc

[Absolom]

Which category would Josh fit into to be allowed to change his social security number?  I worked there and I only ever saw one person get a change approved.   It was a very strange case.  They still keep the original number tied to the person's name, too.   Is he suffering enough harassment that he needs a new SSN?  

 

 

 

We can assign a different number only if:

Sequential numbers assigned to members of the same family are causing problems;
More than one person is assigned or using the same number;
A victim of identity theft continues to be disadvantaged by using the original number;
There is a situation of harassment, abuse or life endangerment; or
An individual has religious or cultural objections to certain numbers or digits in the original number. (We require written documentation in support of the objection from a religious group with which the number holder has an established relationship.)

[Darknight]

A parent has the right to deny dhs, but it makes them look bad. I bet Jimbob is shitting his pants right now

Edited June 11, 2015 by Darknight

[cmr2014]

I too feel some empathy for Josh. [snip] His parents failed him in so many ways. His life is falling apart right now due to his parents poor decision-making. Don't get me wrong, Josh was old enough to assume responsibility for his behaviors but in the end Bob failed as a Shepard or whatever the hell they regard themselves as instead of trying to be good parents.

 

Also, if his parents had handled this properly, it would be a sealed case, not a loose police report. If Josh had received treatment, and had not re-offended, no one would ever have known. I would give them a pass on how they handled it the first time -- who expects or plans for something like this to happen in their family -- but not the second or third time.

 

It really bothers me that they have clearly done no research and talked to no experts in all of these years. I understand that they trust their religious community, but after there are two and then three instances (that we know of), they should have sought out professional help. There just is no excuse.

[CofCinci]

The house Josh and Anna just vacated in Maryland is now up on Zillow as an available rental.  http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/249-Panorama-Dr-Oxon-Hill-MD-20745/37457042_zpid/  In their quick retreat, they left behind their fireplace tools.

 

$2,650 if you're interested and want to use the same bidet as Josh.

Edited June 11, 2015 by CofCinci

[Sew Sumi]

For the DC metro area, that's a steal! Or in my neck of the woods (SF Bay Area), a 2 bedroom apartment. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Lemur]

Why do the words "bidet" and "Josh" make me think of that scene from Crocodile Dundee thinking its a boot washer? Maybe I'm not giving Josh enough credit here. He did travel to Europe on TLC's dime.

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that was soooo educational. He saw the castle where King James wrote the Bible. 

 

(thanks JB! That one never gets old!)

[Muffyn]

The house Josh and Anna just vacated in Maryland is now up on Zillow as an available rental.  http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/249-Panorama-Dr-Oxon-Hill-MD-20745/37457042_zpid/  In their quick retreat, they left behind their fireplace tools.

 

$2,650 if you're interested and want to use the same bidet as Josh.

Suddenly I see a new Clorox cleaner with bleach commercial.  They've been focusing on small children using things like bathtubs as toilets.  I think a bidet or any surface touched by Josh would be the nastiest thing they could dream up.  Pass the bleach!  

[CofCinci]

Suddenly I see a new Clorox cleaner with bleach commercial.  They've been focusing on small children using things like bathtubs as toilets.  I think a bidet or any surface touched by Josh would be the nastiest thing they could dream up.  Pass the bleach!  

Guess we won't be getting you in that hot tub either?

[Tunia]

In one of the many articles linked in this thread (and I'll be darned if I can find it now), it said Josh and Anna were paying a $3,500/mo. rental for the MD house. Wonder why it's so much lower now...

[jschoolgirl]

Anna probably can't/doesn't trust Josh at this point, but rather than divorce (which would probably be very difficult, if not impossible, for her to initiate), she'll probably just shut down and go through the motions. I could see a lot of resentment and distance forming between them, which might also lead to Josh acting out sexually in yet more fun and exciting ways such as porn addiction or adultery. Maybe at that point, though, Anna could finally justify leaving him.

Divorce is out of the question for Gothard adherents. Period.

When people do manage to divorce in that cult, typically because a non-Gothardite spouse initiates it, there is NO remarriage. Was your former spouse incarcerated, mentally ill, addicted? No remarriage. Were you beaten or abandoned? Did they cheat on you? No remarriage.

They intervene to stop second or subsequent marriages before they can happen and convince the couple to call off the wedding. I know someone who was intervened on the night before the wedding. They cancelled -- at the wedding itself.

Anna is stuck with him.

[JoanArc]

 

Divorce is out of the question for Gothard adherents. Period.

Divorce cuts through all religious, racial, ethnic, cultural, age, social, etc barrier. ALL of them. Is there a lower probability for for J&A, maybe. Hell, right wing baptists from the south, fundie or not, who marry young, still have impressive divorce rates.

 

Assuming it could never happen is just as wrong headed as following wisdom books to set up the perfect life. This is the firs ttime something's happened to Josh and Anna trite pieces of advice can't fix.

 

And anecdotally, I've heard plenty of people say the would never get a divorce, then turn on a dime.

[SopranoKris]

Divorce is out of the question for Gothard adherents. Period.

When people do manage to divorce in that cult, typically because a non-Gothardite spouse initiates it, there is NO remarriage. Was your former spouse incarcerated, mentally ill, addicted? No remarriage. Were you beaten or abandoned? Did they cheat on you? No remarriage.

They intervene to stop second or subsequent marriages before they can happen and convince the couple to call off the wedding. I know someone who was intervened on the night before the wedding. They cancelled -- at the wedding itself.

Anna is stuck with him.

 

Absolutely true!

 

I grew up fundie and you'd better believe the church does every thing they can to stop second marriages.  I divorced my husband because he was an alcoholic who refused to get help and kept losing his job.  No sympathy from "friends" at church.  Apparently *I* didn't try hard enough.  Ha!  I was pressured over & over again to "make it work" and get back together with my ex.  The straw that broke the camel's back was when, after being divorced/single for 8 years, I re-connected with my old high school sweetheart.  The pastor had the nerve to tell me that he wouldn't "allow" us to get married in the church.  Fine with me...haven't been back to church since.  (oooh....heathen!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Yes, Anna is absolutely stuck.  She does NOT have the fortitude to stand up to the ire of her fundie "friends" and family.  I feel terrible that she's stuck in this situation.  Then again, she apparently "knew" about it while they were courting.  If she really did know, then she's reaping her "rewards", eh?

[jschoolgirl]

Divorce cuts through all religious, racial, ethnic, cultural, age, social, etc barrier. ALL of them. Is there a lower probability for for J&A, maybe. Hell, right wing baptists from the south, fundie or not, who marry young, still have impressive divorce rates.

Assuming it could never happen is just as wrong headed as following wisdom books to set up the perfect life. This is the firs ttime something's happened to Josh and Anna trite pieces of advice can't fix.

And anecdotally, I've heard plenty of people say the would never get a divorce, then turn on a dime.

But were they Gothardites?

ETA: It is really remarriage where they absolutely go to the mat. My (not really former but not current) friend whose wedding got scuttled will not attend weddings of divorced people. She does work that bridal couples, among others, order. She asks if either party has been divorced; if the answer is yes, then she won't do the work. Her story was printed in an IBLP magazine -- for strengthening the faithful.

Hopefully, Anna will find the strength to continue with what appeared to be a happy marriage. There won't be another for her until he dies.

Edited June 11, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[lottiedottie]

You can change your social security number legally. Info is at your local SSA office.

It's really difficult to change your SSN. I looked into it many years ago after my identity was stolen by a family member.

[msblossom]

The house Josh and Anna just vacated in Maryland is now up on Zillow as an available rental.  http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/249-Panorama-Dr-Oxon-Hill-MD-20745/37457042_zpid/  In their quick retreat, they left behind their fireplace tools.

 

$2,650 if you're interested and want to use the same bidet as Josh.

Seeing all those patched nail holes make me think the Duggar girls went to town putting up dozens of framed family photos on several walls a' la Duggar style in lieu of actual wall art and paintings.

[HumblePi]

Clergy are mandated child neglect/abuse reporters in many states. What about Arkansas? Seems a lot was "confessed" in church.

From what I've read about home-church there is no clergy, there are only a few family members that meet. We have very little knowledge of exactly what that means but it's a group of families that meet in a low-profile unassuming place, presumably someone's home or other meeting place. They gather to hear from each other, the church elders (Jim Bob included), and the occasional guest speaker, followed by food and fellowship. I think the use of the word 'church' leads people to believe it's a physical church with ordained clergy, but it's nothing like that.

[Quilt Fairy]

So it's possible for Josh to change his name, sure. However, when it comes to starting over as a completely different person with a new identity, professional and educational credentials, Social Security number, credit background - all that would have to be finessed somehow. I imagine it's possible to hire someone to help with that, but I personally wouldn't know where to begin.

Better call Saul!

[JoanArc]

 

I think the use of the word 'church' leads people to believe it's a physical church with ordained clergy, but it's nothing like that.

I think the same thing about the 'rod'.

[HumblePi]

I think the same thing about the 'rod'.

right, it could be a rubber hose for all we know, like the kind they use in prison riots

[JoanArc]

right, it could be a rubber hose for all we know, like the kind they use in prison riots

I was thinking more 'generalized beating implement'. Probably plumbing line, like the Pearls Suggested.

[Saylii]

It will be easier for Josh to start over then you think it is, especially if the Duggars get dropped like a hot potato in the next few months. Now it will take some hard work and elbow grease. I'm not sure that Josh has the fortitude for that.

He goes to a two- or four- year school to get a degree in political science or history. He could be ambitious and try for a law degree, but I think that's a long shot. Then he quietly begins low-level work at a political consulting firm or for a lobbyist group. He may not even need to work in DC. He won't make 250k/year, but he'll make a decent wage for Anna and the kids.

He doesn't have a criminal record. His reputation is currently shot, but no one will care in four years. Legally, there's no reason why he can't be hired.

[HumblePi]

I was thinking more 'generalized beating implement'. Probably plumbing line, like the Pearls Suggested.

I bet it's not a rod at all. Maybe they desensitized their children to pornographic material and x-rated films through reality distortion and hyper-exposure?

 

[Sew Sumi]

I was thinking more 'generalized beating implement'. Probably plumbing line, like the Pearls Suggested.

I read TTUAC. They do not suggest plumbing line. I'm afraid that's old Free Jinger folklore. They DO suggest a switch, 1/4" in diameter, IIRC. And that's what I'm sure the Duggars employed back in the days before the cameras were there more often than not. 

 

Back on-topic: I agree that THIS is probably the best opportunity that Josh is ever going to have to go to college. We don't know if he paid cash for his house, but even if he didn't, it was cheap, so expenses would be low. He could lay low and work for Boob for a few years while he also gets an education that means something (not Ecclesia College, the one that never took him off of their Board). Summer semester starts next week! :D

Edited June 11, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Loves2Dance]

I read TTUAC. They do not suggest plumbing line. I'm afraid that's old Free Jinger folklore. They DO suggest a switch. And that's what I'm sure the Duggars employed back in the days before the cameras were there more often than not. 

 

Back on-topic: I agree that THIS is probably the best opportunity that Josh is ever going to have to go to college. We don't know if he paid cash for his house, but even if he didn't, it was cheap, so expenses would be low. He could lay low and work for Boob for a few years while he also gets an education that means something (not Ecclesia College, the one that never took him off of their Board). Summer semester starts next week! :D

I don't think Josh has the actual intelligence to get through school. I know that sounds harsh, and I have seen some homeschooling graduates that could put me and my 4.0 to task, but this family is not filled with those kids. I have a strong feeling his entire first semester would be filled with nothing but remedial work that would insult him and he'd walk away. 

[RedheadZombie]

When an organization seeks to take rights and civil liberties away from US citizens based on their interpretation of the bible, it's very much a hate group. Their argument that marriage is between one man and one woman is tantamount to opposition to interracial marriage which was only made legal in 1967. Arguments about interracial marriage were biblically based as are the FRC's lobbying claims about LBGT citizens.

FRC spreads misinformation about LBGT citizens as to sway public opinion the same way that Westboro Baptist Church tries to sway public opinion by protesting funerals with their God awful picketing propaganda.

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center placed the FRC on their "Hate Group List", as of 2010.