Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Muffyn]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the show came back in some form.  While the vast majority of the people posting on this forum would rather see it gone, the Duggars have strong support in the fundy community.   It comes down to whether, when things calm down, they can get sponsors and who the main fan base watching the show includes.  There have been a series of big names in the ultra-conservative Christian community that have done the “sin”, do a series of tearful confessions to the public, at the large churches, and on religious TV, then come back to the fold/famewhoredom.  Given that this includes molestation of his sisters, it could be harder for Josh to recover his position being featured on the show, but the rest of that family could potentially make a comeback.  Josh already has a large number of apologists within the fundy community who consider this a youthful mistake, he has repented and changed.  Basically the “he is saved in the lord” belief gives him a pass for his behavior.  In fact, Josh could do quite the evangelical shame and forgiveness circuit. 

 

I have never been a regular watcher of 19K&C.  I read the boards for the snark.  So I can say I’ll never watch the show again, but it doesn’t matter to the network.  This is a hot story right now.  It could calm down and they could bring back the show in some form.  I wouldn’t expect a show in which Smuggar aaaaaaaaaaand Anna provides child rearing advice.  That would, rightly, bring out the pitchforks and torches. 

 

I always think it would be best for children to be kept off of reality TV.  Childhood is strange enough without people telling you how to perform for the cameras.  While we can speculate that having the crew there makes the children safer, we don’t know what happens during all of the times that we (and the crew) do not see. 

 

I miss focusing solely on snark.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Muffyn

[CofCinci]

WOW. So Jim Bob lied to the state trooper. It just keeps getting crazier. The state trooper has no reason to lie, he said himself that his reputation is mud and he's in prison and did not receive any compensation for his interview.

The probably compensated his family or deposited money onto his prison commissary account anonymously.

[SmallTownMom]

I just had a Facebook "friend" rip me a new one because I said this show should be pulled.  Whole, long "Christian" retort on how the Duggars dealt with it properly, yada, yada, yada.

 

Sorry, 14 is old enough to know you don't grope your sisters while they sleep.  And certainly old enough to know that it's wrong to get into a little girl's panites.  These leg-humpers make me sick.  Teenage mistake?  Right, got it.  And I am so glad that we have Boob and the Uterus to tell us all how to live Godly lives and that gays are going to hell, etc.   I am tired of hearing, "Those of you without sin cast the first stone."

 

Hey, Duggars, you bunch of hipocrites.  PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES.  Unless of course you can cover it up and lie about it for years.  And the daughters need to get over it. 

 

I stopped my subscription to People magazine years ago because I was sick of the Kardashians.   That's one subcription I will never renew.  Still waiting for the good news on Campbell's, McDonalds, and Coke.  Glad to see the sponsors who dropped the Duggars is growing.

[msblossom]

I actually thought the numbers were much lower. I thought they were clocking in about 2M for the weddings and 1.5 for your average show. I could be wrong. Those are still great numbers for TLC, and more importantly, they are consistently good, which means people tune in every week. But I'm just remembering off the top of my head.

GEML, the viewership has been consistently more than 2M (from 2.08 - 2.9M) each week for the last 2 seasons and I think as high as 3.17M for Jill's wedding. The shows stats have been consistently posted on here each week by Absolom for as long as I've been posting here.

[Iguessnot]

My greatest fear (okay, one of my big fears) in all of this is that behind closed doors the daughters are being blamed and shamed all over again. Like, "look what your defrauding of innocent Joshie has done to us!" I am not convinced that Smuggar would be willing to throw his parents under the blame bus, but it would not surprise me in the least if he is leaning on Gothard teachings and casting patriarchal venom at his sisters (plus whoever the non-family victim was, not to mention the liberal media). The victims' lives have been turned upside down by this becoming so public, I really do worry what else they are being put through behind closed doors. Because I have little hope that they are receiving proper help.

 

 

Regardless of Gothard's teachings, I really don't see Jim Bob placing that kind of blame on the sisters since they were very young with Josh was diddling them. Jimboob's love for his girls has always been very apparent.  

 

I just checked my OnDemand, and 19KaC is not even listed under TLC anymore or anywhere else.  Is that a decision reached by Comcast or by the network?

Comcast OnDemand can't offer what's been snatched away.

[farmgal4]

Just got back from my monthly trip to Walmart. #justshootme. Anyway, while standing in the checkout line, I was checking out the magazine covers. Not one magazine said anything about the Duggars. Not one. How are they keeping this out of headline news?

[CofCinci]

Just got back from my monthly trip to Walmart. #justshootme. Anyway, while standing in the checkout line, I was checking out the magazine covers. Not one magazine said anything about the Duggars. Not one. How are they keeping this out of headline news?

The story hit mainstream media on Thursday. This week's tabloids were already printed.

[Churchhoney]

Duggar crisis-manager candidate reportedly doesn't take the gig:

 

"'It was a no for us to work with them,' Frederick confirmed exclusively to us.

'The needs we need for us to take someone on as a client were not met,' Frederick continued.

What needs did he specifically refer to?
He informed us that, “I can’t go into specifics, but some examples of what we need from our clients are: a willingness to admit you messed up, being humble about the situation, transparency with us, meeting our retainer fee, willingness to take a proper and just punishment both in the law and or court of public opinion, etc.”

'Due to an inability to garner all we needed from the family- without me providing specific examples- we will not be working with them,' Frederick wrapped with telling us."

 

http://realmrhousewife.com/2015/05/27/exclusive-duggar-family-crisis-manager-not-hired/

[JennyMominFL]

It looks like the next cover of People magazine will not be friendly. I think they will be on plenty of tabloids in the next few days. 

[Sew Sumi]

I think the weekly magazines hit the stands tomorrow. We already know the Duggars got the People cover. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Maybe UPtv will give them a shot.

[CofCinci]

Duggar crisis-manager candidate reportedly doesn't take the gig:

"'It was a no for us to work with them,' Frederick confirmed exclusively to us.

'The needs we need for us to take someone on as a client were not met,' Frederick continued.

What needs did he specifically refer to?

He informed us that, “I can’t go into specifics, but some examples of what we need from our clients are: a willingness to admit you messed up, being humble about the situation, transparency with us, meeting our retainer fee, willingness to take a proper and just punishment both in the law and or court of public opinion, etc.”

'Due to an inability to garner all we needed from the family- without me providing specific examples- we will not be working with them,' Frederick wrapped with telling us."

http://realmrhousewife.com/2015/05/27/exclusive-duggar-family-crisis-manager-not-hired/

Sounds like Jim Bob didn't want to take their advice and wants to do things his way. Classic Jim Bob. Such an arrogant fool to think he knows better than a team of crisis PR professionals.

[Wellfleet]

Sorry to disagree, darknight, but I loved the Roloffs & never missed one of their eps.  They really DID show real-life shit -- you could tell Matt & Amy were headed to divorce, and that IS true-to-life, as opposed to the Duggars.  Okay, the Duggars had miscarriage/premature birth, but you just KNEW those people couldn't possibly live like that (or I'd at least hoped).  Turns out, in retrospect, they apparently DO.  Since this scandal & having watched them a few eps. every season I feel absolutely hornswaggled!    Ha!  I'm from Michigan (and so is Amy Roloff), but I've watched a lot of episodes of Matlock!

 

I wasn't a massive fan of the LPBW but must absolutely agree - it was reality. And I have to say - I never picked up on undercurrents or weirdness as I did within a few months with the Duggars. Everything with the Roloffs was, well - out there!

[Churchhoney]

Sounds like Jim Bob didn't want to take their advice and wants to do things his way. Classic Jim Bob. Such an arrogant fool to think he knows better than a team of crisis PR professionals.

His true colors do seem to be running strong here, don't they?

 

I don't think it bodes well for crisis managers to decline to take your business.

[NextIteration]

Duggar crisis-manager candidate reportedly doesn't take the gig:

 

If it's true, that took all of two days.  Wow.

[MrsMommy]

This is what I read today

http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-counting-spin-off-tlc-jessa-seewald-jill-dillard-duggar-family

[NextIteration]

This is what I read today

http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-counting-spin-off-tlc-jessa-seewald-jill-dillard-duggar-family

 

That's a very late pick-up of what was reported in Variety this morning.  These folks aren't very sharp are they?

[Magoo]

I doubt there is a trial.  As someone else stated it was most likely a petition to change or end certain stipulations or requirements by CPS.  It may have been filed because he did the requirements CPS put in place and he was no longer a minor.  At least that is what happens my state but I do know CPS rules and laws vary in differing states.  The one good thing if this was a petition is that would men their had been CPS involvement.

 

 

If CPS were involved, maybe that's the reason blanket training seemed to go out the window around this time.  I always thought they just kind of gave up on it once the oldest girls took over parenting, but this makes sense, too. 

[GEML]

On the flip side, if one and or both girls were victimized by Josh once, why should they lose income just because it's become public knowledge without their consent?

[andromeda331]

I am tired of hearing, "Those of you without sin cast the first stone."

 

So am I. But I'm finding telling them to remember whose comments for their final Judgment and asking if they'll be saying all of that to their Lord. They don't seem to comment after that.

[Mindymoo]

If it's the same trooper that I'm thinking about, he's in jail for kiddy porn.

Indeed it is. He was interviewed from his prison cell, and that was his excuse.

[NextIteration]

If CPS were involved, maybe that's the reason blanket training seemed to go out the window around this time.  I always thought they just kind of gave up on it once the oldest girls took over parenting, but this makes sense, too. 

 

When was blanket training shown?  CPS was involved it would seem before the show was made a series if my calendar reads correctly.

[Churchhoney]

If it's true, that took all of two days.  Wow.

One more person DimBulb has spent the last few days cussing out.

[JoanArc]

Jim Bob is truly arrogant. He'd still the 17 year old chuchboy that landed a hot cheerleader, but would shit his pants if he had to actually live his values.

 

RE: Spin off. Meh. I don't see it working, except for the obvious trainwreck/curious viewers. Why?

* First babies are interesting. Second babies, only a little. Jill's had one, Jessa's will get ratings, but they only have 'till November.

*They likely can't film Derrick's job. Jill likely won't work as a midwife. Ben's work is too closely associated with Jim Bob, and Jessa isn't the top homemaker.

*Everything in Jill and Jessa life revolves around their big family. Take that away and they're just less interesting.

*Yes, they will keep popping babies out. Once the public realizes that, it's less interesting.

*Jill and Derrick might go on a mission, which would hamper filming. Derrick might man up and want out of the circus.

 

EDIT: The girls do deserve a chance at their own income. But I think finding major sponsors would be tough.

EDIT 2: Amy's show's already filmed too, I think.

Edited May 27, 2015 by JoanArc

[Marigny]

Well, the Duggars continue to draw us in.  People are posting like mad, all over the internet...... once TLC officially says bye-bye, some network is sure to want 'in' on the Duggars.  

I'm thinking that the E! Channel might eventually make them an offer they can't refuse, but then, the Kardashians  pretty much own E! and they would not allow it (I am not knocking the K's- I don't watch them, but at least 'they are who they are').

*Hallmark Channel?  Nah, the network is too wholesome.  

*UP?  Nah, the Bateses are already their mega family.

*TruTv?  Nah, the Duggars don't tell the truth.

*A & E (Arts & Entertainment)?  Nah, this network wouldn't want to hurt its reputation.

 

Just maybe......The BRAVO network????  Does anyone think there's a tv network out there that would film Josh after all of this?

Curious to know your thoughts.  Thanks. 

 

If this were the case, someone would have picked up Honey Boo Boo by now and Mama June wouldn't be stuck stripping for her supper. That show was a cash cow and drew people in, too.

 

http://www.people.com/article/michael-seewald-josh-duggar-reaction

 

Hey, Jessa. How do you feel that you FIL is supporting your brother that possibly molested you?

 

This is nothing but Mike taking advantage of an opportunity to get his name out there. Isn't that the whole reason that he drove hours on end to attach himself to this family? I think that he also realizes that without this show, his son doesn't have a pot to piss in, a window to throw it out of, nor the money to buy some paper towels. 

 

There are about twenty different religion channels DISHTV insists on including in my basic channel package...all of them Christian, most of them evangelical. I can see the PTL (Praise The Lord) channel eating this up and putting the whole family out there in sequins and big hair while weeping and begging for love offerings.

Jim and Tammy Faye times 21.

 

Problem is, none of those networks have the budge to support the Duggar machine. We already know that JB is about the Benjies.

[Magoo]

When was blanket training shown?  CPS was involved it would seem before the show was made a series if my calendar reads correctly.

 

You're right, but based on the behavior of the younger kids vs. the older kids it seems like a stop was put to it at some point.  But that's pure speculation on my part and admittedly, my head is spinning with all of the info and timelines.  I'll retract as I know the mods are exhausted and speculation is frowned upon.

[KittyS]

I wouldn't mind if the married girls were able to get some kind of show. It would be great if they had something all their own, without Jim Bob's financial control. Preferably it would include Jana, Jinger, and Joy in some capacity. And also Josiah and Marjorie. I never want to see Josh, Anna, Jim Bob, or Michelle on my TV again.

[Sew Sumi]

Sounds like Jim Bob didn't want to take their advice and wants to do things his way. Classic Jim Bob. Such an arrogant fool to think he knows better than a team of crisis PR professionals.

Duggar Hubris bites JB in the ass yet again. I think the bits about transparency and being willing to take punishment (you know, things regarding INTEGRITY) were too much to deal with. Looks like they're still content to protect Lardass and let the victims twist in the wind. 

 

eta: UP won't take the Duggars. The Bateses would be direct competition, and would kill them in the ratings (news is just beginning to trickle out regarding their Gothard ties, but so far no real skeletons in their closets). Maybe CMT? That's about the only network I could see with any interest that would be a ratings fit. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[parisprincess]

I

doubt there is a trial.  As someone else stated it was most likely a petition to change or end certain stipulations or requirements by CPS.  It may have been filed because he did the requirements CPS put in place and he was no longer a minor.  At least that is what happens my state but I do know CPS rules and laws vary in differing states.  The one good thing if this was a petition is that would men their had been CPS involvement.

 

I would imagine that CPS required Josh be seen by a "licensed therapist", and it doesn't look like that happened.  At least I don't think doing manual labor and praying for three months is considered a type of therapy that would be accepted by CPS.

[GEML]

For people who know the time line better - is it possible that there could have been therapy other than the Little Rock labor in the police report?

[Zung Li]

I read that the internet was wiped clean of any evidence of Michelle's former blanket-training web group or her speaking engagements that she did (to instruct others on the method) before the show became a series.  After seeing a couple excerpts from that Pearl book I'm not surprised, and I can't believe nobody would question if they were still using those methods in the beginning. It's some really sick shit. Scroll down to the first comment after the story. I wish I could un-see it.

http://defamer.gawker.com/police-report-reveals-the-duggar-discipline-method-th-1707154965

 

I'm glad I never supported these freakazoids by watching the show.

[NextIteration]

Not for nothing but didn't the CPS reporting/check-ins come after the police report?  So from 2006 - whenever Josh sued to have it closed, or get his name off some list or something that we'll never know because CPS stuff really should be private?

[Wellfleet]

I really don't want to watch the Duggars any more - ever - in any way, shape or form. I actually haven't wanted to watch them for about 8 years or so. But apparently they were a weird, irresistible train wreck for me. Even if they do go on, I'm out. The only "reality" family I will continue to watch will be The Little Couple. I usually feel good - or at least better - about a lot after that program.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Wellfleet

[SometimesBites]

I wouldn't mind if the married girls were able to get some kind of show. It would be great if they had something all their own, without Jim Bob's financial control. Preferably it would include Jana, Jinger, and Joy in some capacity. And also Josiah and Marjorie.

I disagree, for two reasons. 1. There is too much baggage associated with their lives and their beliefs--I think the vast majority of would-be viewers would never be able to swallow their sunshine-and-rainbows schtick without thinking about the wretched crap they lived through in their parents' household. 2. Getting your family embroiled in television as a way of making a living, especially when the children are young, is a recipe for later disaster. All gravy trains reach their terminal point, and I think it would be better for ALL the Duggars--especially the kids--to let that happen NOW. Get off the tube, and figure out how to live an actual life.

[parisprincess]

I have no desire to see Jill and Jessa get their own show.  It would just be the same as we've been seeing lately: Jessa's upcoming gender reveal, baby shower and birth of baby, followed by the next pregnancy announcement by Jill, gender reveal, baby shower and birth of baby, followed by second pregnancy announcement by Jessa, gender reveal, baby shower and birth of baby.  Personally, I've seen enough of Michelle's pregnancies, Anna's pregnancies, and Jill's first pregnancy.  I'm glad I won't be watching Anna's impending birth, followed by Jessa's, and then, as sure as the sky is blue, the next Jill pregnancy.  That's the only thing those girls know how to do, besides make tater tot casserole.

[CherryAmes]

I read that the internet was wiped clean of any evidence of Michelle's former blanket-training web group or her speaking engagements that she did (to instruct others on the method) before the show became a series.

 

I'm not even going to try and find this because I just so don't want to know about it but I do have to say that I doubt the Duggars or any of their supporters is actually capable of wiping the Internet clean of anything.  Something Josh is going to find out all too well in the coming years.

[Zung Li]

I'm not even going to try and find this because I just so don't want to know about it but I do have to say that I doubt the Duggars or any of their supporters is actually capable of wiping the Internet clean of anything.  Something Josh is going to find out all too well in the coming years.

 The thing I read said that her friends in the web group removed all of her posts and photos once she got the show. I don't know if that means the first specials or the series but that was a long time ago. The creepiest thing is there were people writing about it in 2011 and there were comments defending the book and that it was no big deal. I don't want to know any more about what is in the book either. It's too disturbing.

Edited May 27, 2015 by mingming

[merriebreeze]

Did you see where Dan Savage who defined "santorum" has come up with a new term? It's "duggary" - a combo of hypocrisy and child molestation. Mods please feel free to delete.

[Saylii]

I'm not sure I could ever believe the trooper. Everything reported about his own child pornography struggles always mentioned that he was a good cop with legitimate closed cases. If more instances of "bad cop" came out, those previous cases could still be heavily scrutinized. There's still consequences that could happen for other innocent people if he doesn't try to make himself look better.

None of the of age children could get low-paying public jobs right now. There's too much liability in trying to hire them in the current state. Will paparazzi stalk the children as they go to work? Will TLC be a conflict of interest? Will TLC try to film them at work? Now office jobs might be possible, like Derick's, but there's the fact that the children don't have a lot of office-related skills. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that JD was assigned desk duty assignments for a few months at his sheriff's job.

[Bella]

I do PR for a living and have had my share of experience with crisis management. Other than my personal feelings, I would say 100% that I would never take the this case.

::snip excellent explanation::

 

I can't imagine any legitimate crisis firm or expert taking on a case like this. The world of crisis and risk PR is not Olivia Pope wannabes. A good crisis firm on their side would have already found these places where they have screwed up (past political statements from Jim Bob, the robocall message from Michelle, Josh joking about incest, etc.). However, nobody can eliminate a crisis. All that can be done is to soften the blow. However, I have no doubt that Jim Bob and Josh would never fully cooperate.

 

I believe that the TLC attorneys are working overtime on this, as I said in another thread. JimBob isn't going to cooperate, which is going to slow everything down as he continues in his delusional state.

 

I'm not even going to try and find this because I just so don't want to know about it but I do have to say that I doubt the Duggars or any of their supporters is actually capable of wiping the Internet clean of anything.  Something Josh is going to find out all too well in the coming years.

 

Everything that's ever been online is cached somewhere. It may be difficult to access due to a number of factors, but the Duggars attempting to scour the record would not be one of those factors.

[Fuzzysox]

I completely agree Anna should have not released a statement and should say nothing. She could have just said "it's a personal matter between me and Josh." Now people are picking her apart unfairly because what chance does she ever have of having a life that she can make for herself by herself?

 

This story is not dying down. I'm really shocked that it has picked up so much momentum. Can I say that Dr. Drew talked about abuse last night and he said the only good that can come out about the Duggar revelation is that sexual abuse is once again talked about. It opens the door for discussion. 

[Darknight]

I wasn't a massive fan of the LPBW but must absolutely agree - it was reality. And I have to say - I never picked up on undercurrents or weirdness as I did within a few months with the Duggars. Everything with the Roloffs was, well - out there!

I liked the Roloffs. At least we learned something. Unlike the Duggars I lost brain cells

[Misslindsey]

Is it bad that I would not mind seeing Josiah and Marjorie's wedding? Well, mainly because I want to see if Marjorie's family will do it up better than the previous Duggar weddings. Ok....I will reserve my seat in hell. 

 

 

I'm not sure I could ever believe the trooper. Everything reported about his own child pornography struggles always mentioned that he was a good cop with legitimate closed cases. If more instances of "bad cop" came out, those previous cases could still be heavily scrutinized. There's still consequences that could happen for other innocent people if he doesn't try to make himself look better.

Some of the quotes in that small article from the trooper were a bit hinky when it is known why the trooper is in jail in the first place. He said something about the young girl should have been his top priority and that he has lost sleep over the whole thing. I kept thinking really? What about all those children in the child pornography that he is in jail for. He should not be getting any sleep at all. I will admit he has nothing to lose by admitting the truth. 

[Darknight]

I saw the People story earlier today, the one that floated the trial balloon of TLC having a spinoff series starring Jill and Jessa. I scrolled down through a lot of comments, and they were 99% very harsh, to say the least. As in, trial balloon, meet antiaircraft fire.

I agree with the comments above that it sounds like a very boring show. Neither of those young women is very articulate, Jill even less so than Jessa. Their only interest to viewers is in the context of their big family of origin. Which supposedly wouldn't be featured? Honestly, IMO that hypothetical TV series would be less interesting than watching paint dry.

Unless it's a Jessa and Jill Duggar escape with them living life away from their parents. Getting jobs, schooling, having fun it's gonna be really dry

I'm not sure I could ever believe the trooper. Everything reported about his own child pornography struggles always mentioned that he was a good cop with legitimate closed cases. If more instances of "bad cop" came out, those previous cases could still be heavily scrutinized. There's still consequences that could happen for other innocent people if he doesn't try to make himself look better.

None of the of age children could get low-paying public jobs right now. There's too much liability in trying to hire them in the current state. Will paparazzi stalk the children as they go to work? Will TLC be a conflict of interest? Will TLC try to film them at work? Now office jobs might be possible, like Derick's, but there's the fact that the children don't have a lot of office-related skills. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that JD was assigned desk duty assignments for a few months at his sheriff's job.

Not to mention zero coping skills. If one of the kids worked at McDonalds there's gonna be people of different faiths and backgrounds. The real world isn't like fundie land. If you can't get along with others different from you then guess what you're gonna get fired

[dillpickles]

If it's true, that took all of two days. Wow.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hunterfrederick

Yup. The best of the best wanted nothing to do with this.

[/end sarcasm]

[bigskygirl]

John David is not a regular full time officer. He is a volunteer officer.  They may take him aside and ask him to keep a low profile because of the scandal.

[Darknight]

If this were the case, someone would have picked up Honey Boo Boo by now and Mama June wouldn't be stuck stripping for her supper. That show was a cash cow and drew people in, too.

This is nothing but Mike taking advantage of an opportunity to get his name out there. Isn't that the whole reason that he drove hours on end to attach himself to this family? I think that he also realizes that without this show, his son doesn't have a pot to piss in, a window to throw it out of, nor the money to buy some paper towels.

Problem is, none of those networks have the budge to support the Duggar machine. We already know that JB is about the Benjies.

Did JB really think this will last forever. I mean even if the scandal didn't happen reality tv isn't forever. I guess he's going to miss being royalty because we all know JimChelle are both asses and love attention

[Cherrio]

"*Jill and Derrick might go on a mission, which would hamper filming. Derrick might man up and want out of the circus."

 

Or, he could flip out and go to work in nothing but his Pistol Pete holster and gun.

[JoanArc]

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/jill-derick-ben-jessa-duggar-spinoff-in-the-works-amid-scandal-2015275

 

 

"They've invested a lot of time in developing these story lines and the last thing they want to do is to throw it all away,” a source tells Us of the controversial Christian family’s show, adding that Josh, however, will not be a part of any filming.

 Yikes. Hopefully they're just embellishing. This is the first article that says there's talks.

 

I'm really pissed virtually every economic choice the girls have is to further exploit themselves, in some form.

[Saylii]

Did JB really think this will last forever. I mean even if the scandal didn't happen reality tv isn't forever. I guess he's going to miss being royalty because we all know JimChelle are both asses and love attention

I expect that he thought it would last until Josie turned 18. That's about 13 years. It would cover everyone growing up, any grandchildren born during that time, all the weddings, any defectors, etc.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Saylii