Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GeeGolly]

No statement from the Vuolos yet. I think they were the first to put one out when Josh was arrested.

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

It's a nice gesture if they do, but I also don't think they are obligated to do so. I remember when Josh was first arrested, some people were arguing that Anna's kids should be sent to live with his sisters who were his victims, namely Jinger and Jill, and I feel the same about that as I do this. His kids are innocent and I feel very sorry for them, and if their aunts and uncles rally around them, that's great, but I also don't think it's fair to his sisters who were his victims to be inherently expected to do the emotional labor of cleaning up his bullshit.

Also, we have no idea how nice or supportive Anna was to the sisters when the molestation charges first came about. She could have been supportive, or she could not have been. We don't know. But his four sisters have suffered a lot of pain because of Josh, and if they want to withdraw from Anna and the M's for their own mental wellbeing that's their right.

[YupItsMe]

John & Abbie have been deathly quiet. I hope they stay that way.

[BW Manilowe]

If Josh & Anna had a TV show of their own, it would now be titled 7 Kids & No More Counting Necessary. I’ll bet she’s happy she won’t have to be his brood mare (I think that’s the term I want) anymore, & certain overworked parts of her body will finally get a rest. Let’s just hope they didn’t think about putting some stuff on ice somewhere so Anna could keep getting pregnant with his kids without Josh actually being there to make his contribution. I think at least some of the married daughters might now be worldly enough to know about things like that, but I think the (older) kids still in Arkansas probably aren’t. I don’t think they’re that intelligent & what they really know about the world outside the family compound is probably heavily censored.

[EllaWycliffe]

Just now, BW Manilowe said:

Let’s just hope they didn’t think about putting some stuff on ice somewhere so Anna could keep getting pregnant with his kids without Josh actually being there to make his contribution.

Isn't that against God's will? To conceive with medical intervention?

[BradandJanet]

2 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

That's true, but in their religion, the wife is responsible if her husband seeks sexual satisfaction elsewhere. We don't know if the Duggars really believe or follow that, but it would not be surprising if they did. They probably thought Josh's sexual problems would be solved once he got married and had someone to have sex with.

What bullshit. I guess those female children in those awful videos are responsible for men's lust too.  

1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:

Columbia? Nepal? Somewhere that he is working hard to convert people to the right Jesus? 
 

Odd that there will be not a single photo of that missionary trip. 

[satrunrose]

Hear, hear, Madtown!

I think it's possible to feel bad for Anna over some large parts of this, and I do feel like it's worth pointing out (although I may be wrong) that Anna hasn't actually said that she believes inmate Josh (oooh, that's fun to type)is innocent and we don't know for sure what she'll do now that the pest is off to the real big house.

I think her parents have to take part of the blame for not using their ballyhooed parental authority to tell a 19-year-old Anna that she could do better than this perv, fame be darned, especially since the molestations now seem to have been the worst kept secret in the fundy world.

I sort of blame Anna for not having a never-ending headache or period since the molestations came to light and or when Ashey Madison broke. I totally blame Anna for selling inmate Josh as a model husband, especially while participating in the condemnation of how other consenting adults use their genitals. 

But I don't blame her for not leaving. She had 5, now 7 kids, no job, no job history, and some dubious credential for a job that couldn't possibly support them all. Yes, her brother offered to take them in, but 1-he may be the kind of flake that says that sort of thing a lot but never follows through and 2- We're not talking about letting your average, independent person crash on your couch for a couple of weeks while they get back on their feet. Any one who helps Anna get away from the Duggars is signing themselves up for months of providing food and shelter and probably years of deprogramming. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by satrunrose

[BW Manilowe]

1 minute ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Isn't that against God's will? To conceive with medical intervention?

I’m not sure about conceiving, though I might’ve heard something, at 1 time, about stuff like IVF being frowned upon, which may have subsequently been reversed, but I’m pretty sure artificial birth control is frowned on by many/most religions.

[Minivanessa]

I think Anna's in a no-win situation, and she'd be nuts to issue any public statements about this.

I also think she's well and truly enmeshed in the beliefs of the ATI/IBLP/IFB world her parents and her parents-in-law belong to. For all I know she loves Josh, and she may be one of those women like Michelle who enjoys the hell out of being pregnant and having babies. Although I would be relieved not to have a spoiled indolent pervert like Josh around the house any longer, for all I know she's devastated at the idea that he's locked up and won't be coming home for a long time. I have no reason to believe she'd want to leave the Duggar compound or part ways with her in-laws. 

[satrunrose]

2 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

I’m not sure about conceiving, though I might’ve heard something, at 1 time, about stuff like IVF being frowned upon, which may have subsequently been reversed, but I’m pretty sure artificial birth control is frowned on by many/most religions.

While it's seriously frowned upon by Catholicism and several branches of conservative protestantism, most mainline or liberal protestant churches tend to leave birth control to the individual. 

As to the Duggars, we've seen both Meech and some of the Bates consulting fertility specialists, although not full blown IVF, leading many of us to point out the hypocrisy of leaving your pregnancies up to God when you have 10 of them, but leaving it up to medicine when you have 0-3

[peppergal]

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Hold the phone . . .  a jail with legal custody of humans has been giving a medicine to inmates in contradiction with established medical recommendations?!?!    They may as well hand out cash to all of them because I would bet there will eventually be lawsuits coming down the line and some jobs will be lost.    

Well the Dr was referred to the state medical board for investigation.  I remember the ACLU also having an entire dairy farm's worth of cows. 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/doctor-who-used-ivermectin-treat-covid-patients-inmates-under-investigation-n1277826

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-ivermetin-arkansas-jail-inmates-vitamins/

There was also a report about someone in charge over there trying to divert covid mitigation funds towards a facility expansion project.  So yeah Josh appears to be a reluctant guest of a highly questionable facility, which bothers me because as much as I want him to suffer mightily for what he's done, the mess going on over there earlier this fall crosses the line for me. 

[JustRosie]

I hope Josh’s prison job is something he would never have done at home…cleaning toilets, doing laundry etc. 
 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Namaste

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

I wonder how many of his fellow inmates will be starstruck by the sight of him....

(i'll see myself out now)

[StaceyNotStacie]

I’m not sure if it’s allowed to be posted, but there’s a long post on the Pickles FB page about a prayer request from Jeremy via his ministry group about praying for the siblings and that if they didn’t support Josh, they would be cut off. Apparently two of the siblings are cut off (not sure which ones, although I’m guessing one is Jill). It was quite interesting. 

[satrunrose]

Quote

I’m not sure if it’s allowed to be posted, but there’s a long post on the Pickles FB page about a prayer request from Jeremy via his ministry group about praying for the siblings and that if they didn’t support Josh, they would be cut off. Apparently two of the siblings are cut off (not sure which ones, although I’m guessing one is Jill). It was quite interesting. 

Ooh! Interesting gossip! My guess would be JD and Josiah because of their near-total radio silence through this (Joe would also be on my short list). Jill would make sense, but Derrick doesn't seem to have been interacting with the family like someone who's been cut off. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by satrunrose

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:

Columbia? Nepal? Somewhere that he is working hard to convert people to the right Jesus? 
 

I don’t think we will ever know because I’m certain Anna will never post anything on SM. I expect her to live a private life. 

I hope so. I ever want to see or hear about one of her smug, judgmental, hateful SM posts again.

[quarks]

14 minutes ago, Madtown said:

Watching her stomp out of the court house, I wanted her mad for so many reasons, but I know deep down in my gut, this is the exact reason she was mad.

Maybe?

Or maybe she was angry at Josh - and other things - but mostly Josh.

I mean, she has good reason to be furious at him. I have no idea if she loves him or not. But she stayed with him in 2015, when countless people, including relatives, friends and internet strangers told her to dump the guy. She gave him her loyalty.

And in return, he downloaded CSAM and did such a terrible job of hiding this that he was caught by the feds and convicted by a jury within hours. As the trial revealed to her, he also watched adult porn on his phone (which wouldn't bother me, but which would apparently bother her). Which are all huge betrayals on their own, AND led to her living in a warehouse so that they could cover his legal bills and to her getting splashed all over the covers of various tabloids again, and having to leave her newborn with a caretaker while she portrayed the dutiful wife.

Lots to be angry about. 

[Absolom]

I took it she was trying to get to the vehicle as fast as possible to avoid the press as much as she could or maybe she was racing for the SUV before she broke down.  

[emmawoodhouse]

21 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I’m not sure if it’s allowed to be posted, but there’s a long post on the Pickles FB page about a prayer request from Jeremy via his ministry group about praying for the siblings and that if they didn’t support Josh, they would be cut off. Apparently two of the siblings are cut off (not sure which ones, although I’m guessing one is Jill). It was quite interesting. 

Definitely Jill. I've also heard Austin isn't happy with Boob these days, so Joy could be the second. 

[Cinnabon]

43 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

John & Abbie have been deathly quiet. I hope they stay that way.

I hope they ALL stay that way. Alas, the silence is too good to be true.

[Cinnabon]

35 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

I’m not sure about conceiving, though I might’ve heard something, at 1 time, about stuff like IVF being frowned upon, which may have subsequently been reversed, but I’m pretty sure artificial birth control is frowned on by many/most religions.

Which religions are you thinking of?

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I took it she was trying to get to the vehicle as fast as possible to avoid the press as much as she could or maybe she was racing for the SUV before she broke down.  

Yeah I think they all wanted out of there pretty fast and did NOT want to talk to reporters. When they rounded one corner before getting to the stairs, the only person who looked at the camera was, you guessed it, Hilaria. 

[Cinnabon]

29 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

While it's seriously frowned upon by Catholicism and several branches of conservative protestantism, most mainline or liberal protestant churches tend to leave birth control to the individual. 

As to the Duggars, we've seen both Meech and some of the Bates consulting fertility specialists, although not full blown IVF, leading many of us to point out the hypocrisy of leaving your pregnancies up to God when you have 10 of them, but leaving it up to medicine when you have 0-3

And there are many, many religions other than Christianity.

[Rabbittron]

Smuggar always said that he wanted to be a lawyer now here is his chance. 

[Westiepeach]

So on our local news tonight, there was a blurb about Sex Pest being found guilty, blah blah blah. Husband said, “Josh? Josh who?”

I didn’t want to tell him I followed like every minute of his trial…

Now to get back to actual work tomorrow!

[cereality]

Haven't been reading here though have kept up with the daily trial developments, so sorry if some of this has been said.

Federal attorney myself - Josh and daddy don't get to pick which federal prison he ends up in, frankly even the judge doesn't get to pick - at most he can "recommend" Josh be placed closer to family etc. but that recommendation isn't always taken; Bureau of Prisons decides. Prisons are packed and there is only so much staffing. CSAM defendants need to be in protective custody esp those that are D list celebrities + conditions of prison will almost certainly include some kind of counseling so he'll go to whatever prison can provide these things even if it's 100s of miles away. And no there are no conjugal visits in federal prison - so if J&A didn't make baby 8 last night, they'll be waiting 10ish years - and by that time who knows bc Anna will be 43 - not that she won't be ready and willing to have this loser's 8th baby. Kids can typically visit fed prison and I actually don't think that varies based on whether their charge is CSAM - so look for Anna to be dragging these kids to Josh every so often.

I'm thrilled he was remanded to custody straight from court. Anna and JB NEEDED to see this douche in handcuffs to REALLY have it set in that he did something wrong beyond just the usual oh it's just porn, just a sin NBD. I mean I'm sure they think family persecution blah blah but at some level they needed that shocking imagery. It wouldn't have happened if he had been released pending sentencing and then after sentencing given a date to report in his lawyer's SUV in the wee hours of the morning. And now with any appeal (which I think is just talk) - who cares - he's sitting in prison while that happens?!

Shock has set in for Anna and I think JB - and probably Justin who cried at the sentencing. Monster Josh is still waiting for it to set in - have you seen the SMILING pic from today's mug shot?? WTF!? Does he know what he's in for in prison?? Usually lawyers do prep you for how bad it'll be esp for a child sex crime BUT in this case I wouldn't be shocked if Daddy and Joshie would not hear of it bc this 1000% was a mistake and of course the jury would agree with them.

Good for Jill and Derick! That statement was 100% direct - yes they have been lied to for years and now they've seen the truth for themselves. I will say Jill walking into court yesterday had her - don't eff with me - face; she looked a little broken/exhausted walking out but still ok. Joy OTOH has looked BROKEN for the last 2-3 days. I really hope she is ok/doing whatever she needs to be ok.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by cereality

[Heathen]

It's easier for Anna to stick her head in the sand and pretend Smuggar is innocent, than for her to accept that her husband and father of her children gets off on CSAM. 

[starfire]

2 hours ago, lovesnark said:

Yes, it is true. I don't know about federal prisons, though. Some prisons have special offender units that are just for child sex offenders. They receive therapy and treatments while they're incarcerated geared toward lessening the chance of reoffending. 

I have heard of inmates refusing sex offender treatment in prison because they claim their innocence. I wonder if Josh will be one of them.

[GeeGolly]

Josh is in jail. Just needed to type it out and read it again.

Josh Duggar is right where he should be, in jail.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Right I just don't find it problematic for them to mention it now without having necessarily shown it before. I kind of get the impression Anna is probably hard to support if you think Josh is guilty precisely because she does seem so convinced of his innocence. It's probably better to just throw her a little lifeline that she might respond to after some time. At least that's what I have found with relatives who are in really bad situations they don't want to have perspective on. 

Not only that, JB probably has a tight rein on Anna in terms of who gets her ear. Jill and Derek might be able to talk to her about reality and get her thinking about moving on from the pedophile and the stronghold of JB.  

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh is in jail. Just needed to type it out and read it again.

Josh Duggar is right where he should be, in jail.

It's a magnificent sentence! :) 

28 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Definitely Jill. I've also heard Austin isn't happy with Boob these days, so Joy could be the second. 

That certainly could explain why Austin was in court every day, if he wanted to hear it for himself. If that is true about Jim Bob using threats to keep everyone in line--and I could totally buy it--it will be interesting to see who ends up releasing a statement. I read the post and it mentioned using access to younger siblings as leverage as well as financial stuff, and I can see how that would make it an even harder choice than just the finances. 

[Nysha]

There are 10 Federal Prisons that offer a specific treatment plan for sex offenders, but it's voluntary and inmates have to ask for it. The closest to Arkansas are FCI Marianna, USP Marion, FMC Carswell, FCI Seagoville. 

JB & Michelle's message may have mentioned CSAM but in no way did it admit Josh's guilt. They are still going to publicly follow the fantasy that some random hacker did it to persecute a godly man. Privately they know damn good & well that they produced, sheltered, and lied for their perverted golden penis.  

[GeeGolly]

Much like a death in a family can do, Josh going to jail may expose any fractures that were held together by lies, loyalty and love. It may be liberating for some, but I'm guessing no matter what side they're on, it all comes with a lot of pain and sorrow. 

[coconspirator]

2 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

The Dillards' description of how the trial felt like a funeral made me super sad. After all, Jill is mourning so much more than the verdict. I hope Derick is being the rock she needs right now.

I can see how Jill (and Derick) felt that way. I put myself in Jill's shoes and I can see this trial as the final goodbye to her relationship with her older brother and the death of any trust she can have in her father (and possibly her mother too).  Those two things alone must be gut wrenching for her.

Quote

 Today she stomped out forcefully.  I think she really believes that Josh was framed - set up - "because of his FAME" (gag) and that they are martyrs in some way for living "the right way." I think most of the Duggars believe they are celebrities. 

I didn't see it as stomping in anger so much as I saw a woman on the verge of emotional collapse desperately trying to get away from the cameras while she was still able to manage a stoic demeanor. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by coconspirator

[Tuxcat]

To be fair I don't believe that Pickles Facebook group and I question the source. Though I could certainly see family prayer circles being a thing -and more than likely a mandate regarding the "correct way to think." Jimbob doesn't seem like a man who will change the way he runs his ship. What is very sad is that this is yet another divide in their family and I am sure that makes Jill extraordinarily sad - because she does love her brothers and sisters and likely her parents too. 

Regarding the Duggar posted response - I thought it was well stated. I would not expect them to outwardly acknowledge Josh's guilt. If I was the parent I wouldn't either. I would acknowledge the pain and all the victims. Their response is better than I expected TBH.

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, Nysha said:

JB & Michelle's message may have mentioned CSAM but in no way did it admit Josh's guilt. They are still going to publicly follow the fantasy that some random hacker did it to persecute a godly man. Privately they know damn good & well that they produced, sheltered, and lied for their perverted golden penis.  

Honestly I didn't expect them to admit he was guilty. I was surprised they didn't insist on his innocence, though, which is why I suspect someone wrote it for them or seriously reined them in. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Zella

[SusanM]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

Honestly I didn't expect them to admit he was guilty. I was surprised they didn't insist on his innocence, though, which is why I suspect someone wrote it for them. 

I agree that a professional writer scripted that for them.  I too was not surprised they did not openly acknowledge his guilt but it was not written in a way that insisted he was innocent either.  I guess accepting that he actually committed this crime is something that will never happen unless Josh himself finally admits his guilt.

Edited December 10, 2021 by SusannahM

[Churchhoney]

52 minutes ago, Zella said:

 

That certainly could explain why Austin was in court every day, if he wanted to hear it for himself. If that is true about Jim Bob using threats to keep everyone in line--and I could totally buy it--it will be interesting to see who ends up releasing a statement. I read the post and it mentioned using access to younger siblings as leverage as well as financial stuff, and I can see how that would make it an even harder choice than just the finances. 

I read the post, and I really hope it's a hallucination or fabrication or just anxiety-driven hyperbole or something........Could be any of those things coming from the PIckles page, iI think. However, I've felt several things Jim Bob's done and said lately could show him becoming a bit unhinged by how his life is going. And if that's true, the post may be true, too .......

I already assumed Meechelle didn't show up at all in court because they know she's too close to unhinged to be trusted in that setting. And if JB is losing his grip a bit too, that's really depressing with a bunch of minor kids still in the house.....especially if some of the older siblings possibly become more distanced from it, which the strains of these events may easily trigger, even if the Pickles post is completely untrue....

Yet another reason why having 20 kids is a lousy thing for the 20 kids......

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Churchhoney

[bobalina]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I think you're very likely to be right!

But I also think -- and have seen evidence to prove -- that we don't ever know how capable anybody is of change until they're dead. So I always hold out some hope! 

I totally understand your position. And for any other crime than sexual predator  I would completely agree. But Josh Is just wired wrong and even with the best effort he will never be safe around children. And now with the internet he has far too many opportunities to backslide. 

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I read the post, and I really hope it's a hallucination or fabrication or just anxiety-driven hyperbole or something........However, I've felt several things Jim Bob's done lately could show him becoming a bit unhinged by his current situation. And if that's true, the post may be true, too .......

I already assumed Meechelle didn't show up at all in court because they know she's too close to unhinged to be trusted in that setting. And if JB is losing his grip a bit too, that's really depressing with a bunch of minor kids still in the house.....and some of the older siblings' possibly becoming more distanced from it.....Yet another reason why having 20 kids is a lousy thing for the 20 kids......

 

I've always thought a big part of Jim Bob and Michelle standing by Josh is because to admit he was guilty would be to indict what they view as their life's work. In the same way that Anna probably can't admit that she has spent years living with a monster, I don't think they can admit they spent years raising and enabling a monster. 

I mean, it's laughable to us that they see this as their mission, but they spent decades insisting they were the most wholesome and moral family to ever wholesome and that they were role models. I don't think it is in them to admit that they were wrong, so I could see them interpreting any dissent within the family about Josh as a direct slap in the face to them. It would be a well-earned slap in the face, but I think they lack the self-reflective abilities and humility to ever process it that way. 

I would definitely not want to be anywhere near the TTH tonight. I bet it is fucking miserable right now, and I really feel bad for the youngest Duggar kids and the M kids having to endure it. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Zella

[lovesnark]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Honestly I didn't expect them to admit he was guilty. I was surprised they didn't insist on his innocence, though, which is why I suspect someone wrote it for them or seriously reined them in. 

I don't believe for one second that Boob or Michelle had any part in writing it. I think a PR person or attorney wrote it and told them would be in their best interest to post it. If Boob had a hand in writing it, it would be more along the lines of how Satan was responsible and how their family has suffered persecution for being godly pillars of society. Michelle has probably been too gooned on her mommy's little helpers to participate in anything.

[Heathen]

It also occurs to me that Josh should be accustomed to living in crowded quarters (remember that dinky little house packed with kids) and possibly using the restroom in front of others, or waiting his turn. In that sense, he might have an advantage over inmates who come from normal-sized families. 

[ScorpioSoul]

Dear Lord, that new mug shot. How freaking delusional and entitled do you have to be to smile like that on the day you are convicted of a serious federal crime.  I truly hope Josh gets some help in prison.

[GeeGolly]

Now that we're here, I'm thinking back on Laura fighting with Amy on IG and going to court a couple of days. It makes me wonder what was actually being said at the TTH. Laura is a family friend, or maybe more like a friend that has become family, but she was one of the lucky few who could have kept her head down. Why didn't she?

And then David Waller. Was he there as Josh's dutiful best friend, standing in to support his wife or was he there as Anna's BIL? Or maybe both.

And Hilaria. Someone needs to tell her there actually is something called bad publicity. Standing by a guy who viewed CSA is high on that list.

[3girlsforus]

1 minute ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Dear Lord, that new mug shot. How freaking delusional and entitled do you have to be to smile like that on the day you are convicted of a serious federal crime.  I truly hope Josh gets some help in prison.

Maybe he's on something? 

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Laura is a family friend, or maybe more like a friend that has become family, but she was one of the lucky few who could have kept her head down. Why didn't she?

I can see a case to be made against Amy in the TTH. She should be free to use her voice, but she often used it in an irresponsible way. Often her posts feel as if she's out for her own publicity at the expense of her ENTIRE family.  And of course in her messy live she claimed God was using her as the vessel to save the children. Contrast that to Jill and Derrick. I don't love Derrick's cryptic tweets - but he usually focuses his target. JimBob. Now Josh. Appropriate targets. And he handled these last two weeks perfectly

Amy is a true bull in a china shop and I would imagine that hurt Jana, and probably many of the older kids who are really struggling to figure out what to do with this mess. They love their family. Laura probably had had enough. Jana was likely in a great deal of pain.

[jacourt]

When josh was working on a campaign he was caught watching porn on the computer. Is there a reason that could not have been used as evidence of past behavior?

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, jacourt said:

When josh was working on a campaign he was caught watching porn on the computer. Is there a reason that could not have been used as evidence of past behavior?

It was apparently adult porn, and the judge had already ruled things like his having an admitted porn addiction was not admissible, presumably because the trial was about CSAM. Looking at adult porn and being addicted to it are not illegal, so it didn't really add anything to their case, unlike his history of molesting underage girls, which definitely goes toward showing he had a longstanding predilection for what he was being accused of. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Zella

[Absolom]

50 minutes ago, Zella said:

I read the post and it mentioned using access to younger siblings as leverage as well as financial stuff, and I can see how that would make it an even harder choice than just the finances. 

That shows how nasty and underhanded a control freak Jim Bob is.  He's slime if the report is accurate.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh is in jail. Just needed to type it out and read it again.

Josh Duggar is right where he should be, in jail.

And soon he will be in PRISON. Which, I believe, is a lot worse than jail.

And prison is where he belongs.