Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[HumblePi]

I thought this too- but I cannot find ANYTHING that names the school. If she had any sort of degree, even if most of us don't think it is worth a grain of salt, it seems like it would be in the family bio.

NO way.  There won't be divorce proceedings.

This comes directly from the Josh & Anna website. As you can see, Anna had no formal education.  A home school-er can get a high school diploma either from a homeschooling program or from their parents. Parents are legally allowed to issue a high school diploma to their home school-er upon completion of their graduation requirements  http://ja20.com/ourstory/

 

"Anna was born in South Florida and her parents relocated to the Gainesville area when she was just 3 years old. Her father took a good job working with a manufacturing company in the area. Anna’s parents began homeschooling her and her siblings and became actively involved in their local church.

 

In 1994, Mr. Keller got called for jury duty. While in the juvenile court, he immediately saw the great need for Christ in the lives of those in trouble with the law. He started volunteering at a local JDC (Juvenile Detention Center) and his heart was instantly burdened for the juveniles. In 1996, Mr. Keller made the decision to leave his good job to work as a full time missionary to the incarcerated. They spent months on deputation and God blessed them with many faithful supporters. Working in JDC’s, county jails, and state correctional facilities he began to see God working in the hearts of those who are locked up.

 

Anna continued her studies at home and she frequently helped teach Sunday school & AWANA in her church. Anna graduated from High School at the age of sixteen, and often went with her father to minister to the young girls in the JDC. Anna met Josh after a short courtship & engagement and they were married on September 26, 2008. On October 8, 2009 Anna gave birth to Mackynzie Renee the couple’s first child. On June 15, 2011, they welcomed Michael James into the world! In early 2013 they found out the are expecting again, with baby Duggar due in June! Anna now works full time as a Mommy, and the couple resides at their Fayetteville, Arkansas home."

[sometimesy]

Maybe he was all 'hey hey hey Anna, let's try something fun. Let's go to a minigolf and I'll stand behind you....' and Anna said 'no that's weird.'

Or maybe Anna thinks someone just made him a sandwich. Anyone can make a sandwich, but only Anna ....

[flyingdi]

Anna seems to love this fool. That's the bottom line. In addition to all her cult training, her access to funds, her broken heart, her 4 children, the lack of education, her willingness to accept some of the blame...Anna apparently loves Josh. I hope they get REAL outside counselling, separately and as a couple, if she does decide to stay.

I certainly don't mean this as a defense but in his own stupid I have no idea how to deal with other people way Josh seems to love her too. I wonder if, early in their marriage, Josh and Anna settled on a deep friendship rather than a romantic love relationship. Considering how these marriages are set up, it's a distinct possibility.

Edited August 21, 2015 by flyingdi

[zoomama]

It makes me ill that wife Anna says she is partly to blame. 

 

Why? 

 

Because you turn him down for sex once on awhile ?

Because you're friggin tired, or have your period, or just plain don't feel like it ?

Because he really does not meet your own mental, emotional, or physical needs ?

Because Josh has poor hygiene and won't do anything about it ?

Because you won't do that...or that....or that other thing ?

 

I want to shake her and tell her SHE HAS RIGHTS.

SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE SEX WHENEVER,.... OR HOWEVER HE WANTS IT. 

She can say NO!

 

Sorry for the all caps, but I needed to get my points across.

well said.

[AnJen]

The thing I can't get over is the sheer amount of people, Duggar fans or just random people who follow the story in the news...who are reacting so much more strongly to the adultery than to the molestation.

 

I just...I can't wrap my head around it at all. Regardless of the fact that he was 14 when it happened and that he grew up in a sexually repressive environment, he still knew exactly what he was doing and knew that it was wrong, and yet so many of the comments that I've read on this latest story all seem to be of the opinion that they could've "gotten over" the molestation, but adultery?? Porn?? Cannot forgive. I honestly can't even find the words for how mind-boggling it is to me.

 

I also don't understand why anyone is surprised, or how anyone thinks that he's going to change without intensive therapy.

 

I mean, if you look at the bare facts, he wants his own physical pleasure and doesn't care what he has to do to get it. And he's willing to escalate over time in order to achieve that. His behavior has gone from touching girls over their clothes while asleep, to touching girls under their clothes while asleep, to cornering girls who are awake and touching them in private, to touching a girl who is awake in front of other children, to viewing pornography (what's this about being reprimanded for watching it at work? I've seen it referenced here multiple times in the past few days, but no mention of where this rumor came from. If it's true, his porn habit started at least by age 16), to cheating on his wife. 

 

That's a pretty bad track record, and the fact that it escalates over time (becoming more daring, taking bigger risks, etc.) is a huge indicator that this isn't just a horny guy. You could argue that while he lived under his parents' roof that his behavior was due to not being allowed to masturbate, but he's been married for seven years now; he rules the roost in his own house, if he wants to lock the bathroom door or take a 3-hour shower and take matters into his own hands, there's no one stopping him. 

 

His behavior has very little to do with sex or horniness, and very much more to do with whatever else is going on in Josh's head; that's not for us to diagnose whatever is wrong with him, but this is clearly a huge problem that has been swept under the rug for at least half of his life. 

 

I also have no hopes of Anna leaving him; I honestly can't decide whether I feel bad for her...she didn't choose to be born into the wacked out family and religion she was born into, that taught her that Josh's actions are her fault or Satan's fault or the evil world's fault; she's been brought up to believe that he can't help himself and that it is her duty to submit to him and forgive him. And that sucks, and I feel sorry for her. But then I also think that, by her own admission, she did choose Josh with a full knowledge of his past, and she has more ways out than the rest of the Duggar kids; she has family members who got out and who I'm sure would help her if they could and who could help her find resources to live independently. 

 

I just...I'm glad it came out, honestly. I know so many people with only a casual knowledge of the family who think they are such bastions of decency and virtue, and I think things like this need to come out, for the seedy underbelly to be exposed so that other people don't get sucked into this way of thinking. I have a coworker who used to just gush over how righteous the family is and how more people need to be just like them, and how their courting was such a great idea. 

 

The problem with knowing more about the Duggars and Gothardism is that when I have tried to explain more about their twisted beliefs, I'm generally accused of being a "hater" when I try to point out things that are highly problematic about their belief system or their actions. It's great to see things like this publicized, honestly, so that the people who adore them can see what is really going on. I'm disappointed that it's Josh once again, because it makes it seem like he's the one bad kid of the bunch; while I don't think the rest of the Duggars have the sexual problems that Joshley does, I do wish their hateful natures and ugly beliefs would be exposed and that the people who heap so much praise on them could see them as they truly are.

[HumblePi]

I recently had a conversation with a very wise person about children that have behavioral problems and what his opinion about how to deal with this problem. He simply said 'there are no bad children, there is only bad parenting'. That stunned me for a moment then of course it made sense. I was expecting an answer that was deeper and more complex. The fact is, he's absolutely right. Jim Bob and Michelle crippled their children emotionally in many ways. They put guilt in the forefront of their parenting and that practice got in the way of them leading well. We all have our own image of what a dysfunctional family looks like. Either one parent is missing, one is a drug addict or alcoholic, some are abusive and neglectful. But we never saw any of those things with Jim Bob and Michelle. What we didn't realize is that the inability to lead their children well rather than leading them according to fundamentalist beliefs is exactly what made Josh and who knows how many other Duggar children dysfunctional.

 

In any family, there's a possibility that one of their children will have some type of social or emotional difficulty. But when a family has 19 children, it's pretty much a sure thing that at least one and possibly many more than one of those children will grow up with some deep-seated emotional struggle.

[sandyskyblue]

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth but I wish this scandal had involved another Duggar, only because people will see him as "the bad seed" and not see that the whole belief system is sick. In therapy we would call him "the identified patient" he displays the dysfunction of the entire family, but they are all sick. And wow do they hate/fear women. The only way to ensure a woman never leaves you is to keep her uneducated and pregnant. She's not a wife she is a hostage. I seem to be in the minority but I think the molestation was a far bigger deal then this. Espically the molestation of a five year old child, that is some serious sexually acting out. I think Josh has some serious problems (I know we aren't allowed to diagnos) conforming to societal standards/ norms. When you dig deeper it's about more than sex.

So, so many excellent and insightful comments on here, I have been taking time out of my 'life' to read them all....this one from nc socialworker really stands out to me, especially about a wife being a hostage in this cult....and unfortunately, so are the kids...they are so terribly restricted, socially stunted and unable to live a somewhat normal, typical kid life....

I, too, have commented that I feel like the molestation is a much bigger issue than the AM account that Josh had, although the 2 together is seriously scary being that Josh and Anna have 4 small innocent babies....

[Ilovemylabs]

It makes me ill that wife Anna says she is partly to blame. 

 

Why? 

 

Because you turn him down for sex once on awhile ?

Because you're friggin tired, or have your period, or just plain don't feel like it ?

Because he really does not meet your own mental, emotional, or physical needs ?

Because Josh has poor hygiene and won't do anything about it ?

Because you won't do that...or that....or that other thing ?

 

I want to shake her and tell her SHE HAS RIGHTS.

SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE SEX WHENEVER,.... OR HOWEVER HE WANTS IT. 

She can say NO!

 

Sorry for the all caps, but I needed to get my points across.

Must have missed something. When did Anna say she was partly to blame?

[Sparger Springs]

 

The thing I can't get over is the sheer amount of people, Duggar fans or just random people who follow the story in the news...who are reacting so much more strongly to the adultery than to the molestation.

Because in their minds he was a kid when the molestation happened and they wanted to believe that sad story about over the clothes and everyone was asleep when it happned. No harm no foul and the rest of the world is just a bunch of hating ass haters. 

 

Josh committed adultery as a grown man with a family. He has wife that can't turn him down for sex for any reason per their religion. Also the Ashely Madison profile shows that his a complete idiot that didn't have enough sense not to use his own name and legal addresses. Their fans have been following a bunch of total idiots and now they feel stupid. 

[wovenloaf]

Must have missed something. When did Anna say she was partly to blame?

There were news articles earlier saying that (though I can't say whether she actually said that). Here's one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205403/Anna-Duggar-partially-blames-husband-Josh-cheating-using-porn-mother-law-Michelle-s-marriage-tip-NOT-deny-spouse-sex.html

[Honey]

I must have missed this, because someone must have linked to it before now.

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-cheating-scandal-friends-arkansas-strippers-facebook/

 

Also, here's a people article about his changing statements.

 

http://www.people.com/article/duggar-family-edits-josh-duggar-statement-pornography-addiction-unfaithful

Edited August 21, 2015 by Honey

[Cherrio]

I kind of like the Satan apology version(version #1) because it clearly says that Satan has built a fortress in his heart.  That really says it all. He's got a Satan's heart.  Forget about the soft heart Michelle was talking about oh no he's clearly got Satan's heart.  Sorry Michelle.

I think the only heart he has, is a heart - on.

[ktwo]

Can you imagine if this scandal hit first while the show was still on tv? I imagine the ratings surge would be huge! I feel bad for any wife finding out that her husband has been having an affair. What makes this really creepy is that this is an online affair for the purpose of sex. He paid for it!

I know it's useless to speculate but I can't help but wonder (tm Carrie Bradshaw) what would have happened if this scandal had come out first. Since it didn't involve any of the rest of the family - i.e. the coverup by JB&M - could TLC have simply excised Josh's family and kept the Duggar gravy train rolling? I guess Joshie still would have lost his FRC job, though.

Also, the boards here were moving so fast during the last scandal that I couldn't keep up - does everyone here generally think that Anna REALLY knew about the molestation before she married Josh as the statement said? Because I've been following this stuff forever and called bullshit on that immediately.

[Missy Vixen]

Poor Joshie was under so much stress.  I wonder when that was because he seemed to have plenty of time to play on the Internet and hook up, and possibly visit strip joints.  I'm wondering really what work he ever did when he wasn't standing in front of a microphone or sitting at a business meeting.

"STRESS", my ASS. Let's talk about the "stress" poooor, poooor Joshie was under, shall we?

 

His "job" was a piece of cake. I'm sure he had someone else writing his "speeches", picking up his dry cleaning, making sure he had lunch, a liberal (YUK YUK) expense account and enough time alone in his office to watch porn/contact the strippers and hookers online every day. The most stressful thing about it was probably the commute, and he most likely wasn't actually in the office multiple days a week. The only thing we've ever seen him do around the house was paint their former downstairs bedroom a disgusting mustard shade, and he had to have two other people help him do THAT. I'd love someone to explain how there was any stress at all in Josh Duggar's life that he wasn't directly responsible for. Don't want four kids? Great. Start using condoms. Don't want the world to find out that you've been mainlining porn and fucking someone you're not married to? STOP DOING IT.

 

His WIFE was at home with four kids under five. Alone. Every day. She was in charge of all the cooking, all the cleaning, laundry, errands, childcare and every other damn thing that went on at that house. Joshie was most likely jerking off in their room behind a closed door while she was dealing with the million and one things she had to deal with every day, including his family. Imagine having to put up with Jim Boob and J-Chelle on a daily basis. If they weren't there in person, one has to believe they were on the phone constantly. She probably fell into bed completely exhausted and did not have the energy to deal with her husband's "high sex drive". Again: Josh's fault. Maybe he should get up off his ass and help with the kids a little once in a while. We've all seen what happens when they traveled, too -- Anna was trailing behind with a stroller, wearing a kid and trying to juggle it all while her lazy dumbass of a husband sauntered along.

 

I don't understand Anna's refusal to leave for her kids' sake, but I have incredible empathy for her plight with being so young, having little education, no job skills, and four little kids to take care of. She did everything "right" and still found herself in a situation nobody would wish on their worst enemy. Imagine the reduction in her daily workload if she doesn't have to cater to Smuggar's every whim as well.

 

She doesn't have to worry about going to Hell, in my opinion. She's living in it right now.

[VoteForSummer]

Also, the boards here were moving so fast during the last scandal that I couldn't keep up - does everyone here generally think that Anna REALLY knew about the molestation before she married Josh as the statement said? Because I've been following this stuff forever and called bullshit on that immediately.

I totally agree I have never bought that Anna knew in advance. That only serves to further the Duggar narrative that Josh was so guilt ridden/repentant that he had to disclose this terrible secret to his potential bride. I don't buy it. They would never have taken the risk of Anna rejecting Josh once she heard this story or even of her repeating it. OR...I just don't think they thought the whole incident was that big of a deal (they've demonstrated that often enough) and certainly not serious enough for someone to think any differently of their precious Josh. He was forgiven, after all...

[Brooklynista]

Is it possible that Anna knew about Josh's dalliances and just looked the other way?  Or was okay with it as long as he was discreet? 

 

Just thinking out loud.   I would almost prefer that this was the case because I know it does something to a spouse's soul to find out a partner has been cheating

while you are sitting and thinking everything is kittens, flowers and puffy heart stickers in the marriage.

[SongbirdHollow]

This is my favorite comment from the Duggar Family Blog (Lily and Ellie's):

 

The Reason the teenage "inappropriate groping" minor-incident even re-surfaced,
was because Josh was hiding THIS Major, Covenant-Breaking, Behavior!
GOD Absolutely would have kept that minor-stuff buried in the past,
if the door had not been opened to Satan,
by Josh's Meditating-on & Giving-in-to the
Lustful Temptations, that led to Infidelity.

 

Okey dokey then.

[Churchhoney]

Also, the boards here were moving so fast during the last scandal that I couldn't keep up - does everyone here generally think that Anna REALLY knew about the molestation before she married Josh as the statement said? Because I've been following this stuff forever and called bullshit on that immediately.

 

There was a big debate on this. As I recall, the upshot was that quite a few people who seem to know a lot about the Duggar/Keller/Gothard style think that she did know the details because of the way that group functions. It's known that JB and M told leaders of their church -- which some take to include major Gothard people like Pa Keller -- and that there was public confession and forgiving-by-the-victims involved. The principle, according to these folks, is that they're all enjoined to tell all, including details, and then go on to public forgiveness stuff from there, and that since Anna's a member of the Keller family, she would have been fully informed as well.

 

A bunch of other people had trouble believing that she knew. I don't recall anybody with much particular knowledge of Gothard's group and very similar groups being in that category, but it's possible some were. Anyway, some didn't feel that even the parental Kellers knew all the details or even any of them; they live in Florida, after all, and many doubted whether they would have encouraged their daughter to marry the guy.

 

Others had the feeling that the parents knew, because of who they are in the Gothard world, but that they probably whitewashed the facts a bit when it came to Anna -- like saying Josh had been involved in "inappropriate touching" of somebody... not necessarily numerous somebodies, not necessarily his sisters. That was my initial opinion -- I had the feeling that the Kellers and the Duggars would have seen Anna as a naive childwoman who didn't need to hear absolutely everything, especially since it suited all of their agendas to get her married to Josh and since she lived 1000 miles away, so she probably wasn't at the meetings where all the details came out. I felt as if they would lie to her by omission -- give the outline but not the details. Having heard what people apparently more knowledgeable of these groups thought, though, I came round to thinking that my gut impression was based on too little knowledge and might well be wrong and that maybe they did tell her everything, since stories about such detailed confession stuff -- in front of large groups of people, including children -- appear to be pretty common.

 

So, in short, nobody knows. And it's possible that she did know everything but is so steeped in the Gothard way that she buys such wholesale confession as being the true way to forgiveness or something. Crazy and unfortunate no matter which of the scenarios is true, if you ask me.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Churchhoney

[wovenloaf]

Anna was trailing behind with a stroller, wearing a kid and trying to juggle it all while her lazy dumbass of a husband sauntered along.

GAAH! When I think of things that piss me off about Duggars, the scene (I think in one of the episodes right after they moved to DC?) where this exact thing is happening is always one of the first things that pops into my head. Schlepping along like a pack horse, while he strolled ahead without a damn care in the world. Except, you know, the *heavy burden* of being waited on hand and foot by your wife while you cruise the internet for sex partners. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by wovenloaf

[Iguessnot]

The story just broke and some family insider claiming to have the lowdown on Anna's condition right now, is busy gossiping to People magazine, without identifying themselves of course. Anna hasn't spoken for herself and quite frankly she has more pressing concerns than issuing statements to the nosy press. I personally feel she should take the opportunity to kick Josh to the curb who grossly violated his vows and her trust for no good reason. But that's her decision. Unlike others, I'm not going to parrot the rants of the abusers within the Gothard camp and beat Anna over the head with the stay at all costs mantra. As someone else posted, if Hillary chose to stay with Bill, give Anna the space to choose. 

[Churchhoney]

Just thinking out loud.   I would almost prefer that this was the case because I know it does something to a spouse's soul to find out a partner has been cheating

while you are sitting and thinking everything is kittens, flowers and puffy heart stickers in the marriage.

 

Speaking of kittens, flowers and puffy heart stickers, I keep thinking of those recent photo ops of Josh and Anna. The two of them celebrating their "seven year engagement anniversary" or whatever. And then the one in the restaurant with him holding little Meredith. It's horrible enough to think of her smiling through that after the whole molestation, lose-job-in-disgrace fiasco. But it takes on a whole different dimension if she had any idea that all this stuff might come down as well. And it makes me wonder whether those were photo ops mostly to repair the public image or whether he was trying to soften Anna up in case more stuff came out. .... In any case, creepy and awful to be the betrayed party in those pictures. Her smiles looked forced to me, but I don't think I could have mustered a look other than nausea in her position.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

This has been going on for a long time, right?

The first account was registered to Arkansas and then the address changed to their Maryland home?

 

That's probably why Josh took the job. He was looking for something a bit more exciting and thought DC would be sin city! 

[TEEVEE]

 

 

It may be the one good thing they have consistently done for their female kids.

 

Joseph, Josiah, Jed and Jer have all had braces. I bet John David said no. And they didn't have the money they did have when Josh was younger. However, both Josh and Anna have done invisalign. Josh's teeth aren't as jacked up as they used to be.

[ktwo]

Thanks so much to churchhoney for the very informative recap and sorry if this strayed off-topic and/or into territory already well-covered. I was just wondering because so many posts here are saying that Anna knew what she was getting into and made her bed, so to speak, and deserves what she's getting now because of it. I always assumed that she either didn't know anything and the statement was a lie, or that the indiscretions she knew about and mentioned in the statement were mild and involved the girl in Josh's earlier engagement which JB&M would have had to explain away somehow.

[Satchels of gold]

 

"Anna was born in South Florida and her parents relocated to the Gainesville area when she was just 3 years old. Her father took a good job working with a manufacturing company in the area. Anna’s parents began homeschooling her and her siblings and became actively involved in their local church.

 

In 1994, Mr. Keller got called for jury duty. While in the juvenile court, he immediately saw the great need for Christ in the lives of those in trouble with the law. He started volunteering at a local JDC (Juvenile Detention Center) and his heart was instantly burdened for the juveniles. In 1996, Mr. Keller made the decision to leave his good job to work as a full time missionary to the incarcerated. They spent months on deputation and God blessed them with many faithful supporters. Working in JDC’s, county jails, and state correctional facilities he began to see God working in the hearts of those who are locked up.

 

Anna continued her studies at home and she frequently helped teach Sunday school & AWANA in her church. Anna graduated from High School at the age of sixteen, and often went with her father to minister to the young girls in the JDC. Anna met Josh after a short courtship & engagement and they were married on September 26, 2008. On October 8, 2009 Anna gave birth to Mackynzie Renee the couple’s first child. On June 15, 2011, they welcomed Michael James into the world! In early 2013 they found out the are expecting again, with baby Duggar due in June! Anna now works full time as a Mommy, and the couple resides at their Fayetteville, Arkansas home."

This made me mad. God put it on his heart to quit his job?!? Like God put it on JB's heart to spend 250.000 dollars for an unsuccessful campaign while his family lived in squalor?!? It's very coincidental that God always tells them the exact thing that they, themselves , want to do. I guess God is super chill like that. And for people who don't beleive in the welfare safety net they all seem to be living off the fruits of other people's labor. they are not pro life, they are pro birth.

[Rhetorica]

Im not buying that Josh has a psychological problem. Not everyone who repeats certain behaviors is addicted, narcissistic, or stunted. Some are just assholes and feel entitled.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Rhetorica

[CofCinci]

This comes directly from the Josh & Anna website. As you can see, Anna had no formal education. A home school-er can get a high school diploma either from a homeschooling program or from their parents. Parents are legally allowed to issue a high school diploma to their home school-er upon completion of their graduation requirements http://ja20.com/ourstory/

"Anna was born in South Florida and her parents relocated to the Gainesville area when she was just 3 years old. Her father took a good job working with a manufacturing company in the area. Anna’s parents began homeschooling her and her siblings and became actively involved in their local church.

In 1994, Mr. Keller got called for jury duty. While in the juvenile court, he immediately saw the great need for Christ in the lives of those in trouble with the law. He started volunteering at a local JDC (Juvenile Detention Center) and his heart was instantly burdened for the juveniles. In 1996, Mr. Keller made the decision to leave his good job to work as a full time missionary to the incarcerated. They spent months on deputation and God blessed them with many faithful supporters. Working in JDC’s, county jails, and state correctional facilities he began to see God working in the hearts of those who are locked up.

Anna continued her studies at home and she frequently helped teach Sunday school & AWANA in her church. Anna graduated from High School at the age of sixteen, and often went with her father to minister to the young girls in the JDC. Anna met Josh after a short courtship & engagement and they were married on September 26, 2008. On October 8, 2009 Anna gave birth to Mackynzie Renee the couple’s first child. On June 15, 2011, they welcomed Michael James into the world! In early 2013 they found out the are expecting again, with baby Duggar due in June! Anna now works full time as a Mommy, and the couple resides at their Fayetteville, Arkansas home."

I never read that narrative before. Is anyone else creeped out that her father quit his "good" job to spend the day reading bible stories to underage girls held captive by the juvenile justice system? With the way their culty circle is rife with pervs and abusers (hell, even Gothard himself!), the power differential between incarcerate juvenile and her father is quit concerning.

[ktwo]

This made me mad. God put it on his heart to quit his job?!? Like God put it on JB's heart to spend 250.000 dollars for an unsuccessful campaign while his family lived in squalor?!?

See also Gil Bates, who IIRC left a corporate job with benefits to start the tree cutting business. It's because they can't possibly work for anyone who doesn't share their whackadinghoy beliefs exactly.

[Satchels of gold]

I think God should lay it on Anna's heart to kick Josh's ass!

[becca3891]

Im not buying that Josh has a psychological problem. Not everyone who repeats certain behaviors is addicted, narcissistic, or stunted. Some are just assholes and feel entitled.

Right, some people just have no interest in monogamy but want the stability and benefits that marriage provides. I think that's the case with Josh.

 

I realized I posted it in the wrong thread, but I am kind of gleeful imagining Josh, whose biggest concern in my opinion is that now that he's back in Arkansas, his hope of finding women who don't know who he is has plummeted in the wake of not one but two scandals. Poor Anna actually may get her wish that he's "reformed," but for all the wrong reasons. He'll be too scared to try again, in my opinion. But we'll see.

 

Abandoning careers does seem to be a thing among Gothard men but David Rodrigues takes the cake. You really get the impression that this guy just didn't want to work anymore. And a printing business??? In this day and age, that is such a bizarre and dated concept. If someone needs to print out some homemade bible tracts, they can do that on their own printer at home.

I never read that narrative before. Is anyone else creeped out that her father quit his "good" job to spend the day reading bible stories to underage girls held captive by the juvenile justice system? With the way their culty circle is rife with pervs and abusers (hell, even Gothard himself!), the power differential between incarcerate juvenile and her father is quit concerning.

I am not one to defend Pa Keller, but my understanding is that he mentors men and his wife and daughters have mentored women. Of course, those who think Pa Keller is closeted may still find that creepy! But I honestly don't think it's a sexual thing. I think he's giving talks and bible studies in a group setting. I dislike his fundie beliefs, but I have more respect for prison ministry than for some other things.

[Aja]

I must have missed this, because someone must have linked to it before now.

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-cheating-scandal-friends-arkansas-strippers-facebook/

 

Also, here's a people article about his changing statements.

 

http://www.people.com/article/duggar-family-edits-josh-duggar-statement-pornography-addiction-unfaithful

The best thing about that Facebook piece is "Joe Smithson." In addition to everything else, he certainly is a creative thinker.

[Chaos Theory]

It makes me ill that wife Anna says she is partly to blame.

Why?

Because you turn him down for sex once on awhile ?

Because you're friggin tired, or have your period, or just plain don't feel like it ?

Because he really does not meet your own mental, emotional, or physical needs ?

Because Josh has poor hygiene and won't do anything about it ?

Because you won't do that...or that....or that other thing ?

I want to shake her and tell her SHE HAS RIGHTS.

SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE SEX WHENEVER,.... OR HOWEVER HE WANTS IT.

She can say NO!

Sorry for the all caps, but I needed to get my points across.

But according to her "religion" she doesn't and according to her "faith" Josh cheating is all her fault. Edited August 21, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[magpye29]

In any case, creepy and awful to be the betrayed party in those pictures. Her smiles looked forced to me, but I don't think I could have mustered a look other than nausea in her position.

 

I'm with you, ChurchHoney, Anna's smiles look so pained that I hurt for her.

[Aja]

I was married to a dude for 20 years who cheated on me relentlessly and he didn't bother with discrete affair websites either. I don't have a Christian bone in my body but I stayed with the dude for a laundry list of terrible reasons that seemed perfectly justified to me at the time. I didn't need Jesus to start blaming myself and my shortcomings and I didn't need need a help meet mindset to convince myself that I was a kick-ass wife for being so open-minded and crap about it. You tell yourself all kinds of things because that somehow feels better than having to admit that you fell for something, that you had the wool pulled over your eyes, that he actually made a fool of you. And it doesn't matter what anybody else says--you know for a FACT that if you were somehow different, it might not have happened. And this is a dynamic that grew inside of me with zero outside influence. Anna's whole world is people who are going to agree with all those things she's already feeling. The real tragedy is that Anna's not going anywhere.

[Sew Sumi]

This came out after the first scandal, but it's worth a re-read to understand the Gothard mentality. Of note, women don't have sex drives, but men are hyper-sexed. This certainly gives men the out to cheat and otherwise be sexual assholes to their wives, including spousal rape. 

 

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/28/i_couldve_been_a_duggar_wife_i_grew_up_in_the_same_church_and_the_abuse_scandal_doesnt_shock_me/

[CousinAmy]

How was Anna counseling young women in juvenile Hall with only a home school education? Was she actually doing social work, or just preaching? Supposedly she's so simple and naive but here she is speaking with girls her age, with not any more wisdom then they had, and look where they ended up.

I don't buy that she is unable to leave because she has no support. Others have done it, from other cults and religions. Maybe she just doesn't want to struggle, but remain faithful to her in-laws, where the source of power and money in her world.

[HundFan]

Given how the Duggars minimized Josh's molestation of his sisters, I'm half waiting for a similar explanation re any actual affairs: "The women were unaware he was having sex with them because they were asleep. Plus the sex only happened with all their clothes on." Of course if he did have sexual contact with sleeping women, that would qualify as sexual assault, no? And that can't be true - since we know from the Duggars that Josh touching his sisters only amounted to being a little too curious. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by HundFan

[CofCinci]

OJ Simpson had a prank show in 2006. These people will get another show in the future.

[Sew Sumi]

How was Anna counseling young women in juvenile Hall with only a home school education? Was she actually doing social work, or just preaching? Supposedly she's so simple and naive but here she is speaking with girls her age, with not any more wisdom then they had, and look where they ended up.

I don't buy that she is unable to leave because she has no support. Others have done it, from other cults and religions. Maybe she just doesn't want to struggle, but remain faithful to her in-laws, where the source of power and money in her world.

The "insider" says that Anna definitely will NOT leave. 

 

http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00087318.html

 

(much of this was from the People Insider article from last night)

[HumblePi]

The story just broke and some family insider claiming to have the lowdown on Anna's condition right now, is busy gossiping to People magazine, without identifying themselves of course. Anna hasn't spoken for herself and quite frankly she has more pressing concerns than issuing statements to the nosy press. I personally feel she should take the opportunity to kick Josh to the curb who grossly violated his vows and her trust for no good reason. But that's her decision. Unlike others, I'm not going to parrot the rants of the abusers within the Gothard camp and beat Anna over the head with the stay at all costs mantra. As someone else posted, if Hillary chose to stay with Bill, give Anna the space to choose. 

The Hillary Clinton vs Anna Duggar comparisons are vastly different. Hillary had personal political and financial motivations for remaining with Bill. It was something she needed to do in order to realize her own future ambitions. Remember, Bill Clinton was impeached as President of the United States but that impeachment was overthrown by the Senate. The infidelity that occurred between Bill and Monica was only made public because he had been confronted previously with allegations of sexual misconduct during his time as Governor of Arkansas, by Paula Jones, alleging that he had sexually harassed her. Lewinsky's name surfaced during the discovery phase of Jones' case.

 

Josh and Anna Duggar have an entirely different situation. There's four very young children involved and a huge factor in Anna's choices is the teachings and pressures of her fundamentalist Christian upbringing and brain washing. This will compel Anna to stand by Josh and to deflect the blame for his infidelities on herself. I don't think she'll ever 'kick Josh to the curb'. On the contrary I think Anna Duggar will be a good little Fundy wife and stand firm with her husband no matter what he admits to doing. Her motives aren't political or even financial. Her reasons for turning the other cheek and accepting Josh's infidelities are deep-seated and bred into her. She just isn't capable emotionally of doing what a normal woman does instinctively.

[ThinkerBell]

'Joe Smithson' notes in his FB Timeline that he Registered As An Organ Donor in 2004. The jokes write themselves, folks.

https://www.facebook.com/100002998494800/posts/467867383323207/?pnref=story

[Taylorh2]

I heard a reporter say on FOX News this morning that his parents have "distanced themselves from Josh"

 

Don't believe it for a min.

[BucFan]

 Guess Joshie-Poo wanted to play "Legos" with somebody else.

[Ilovemylabs]

I know that this is off topic but there are rumors out there that MK is on forced leave because she was mean to The Donald during the debate.

 

However, I really would like to see her take on Josh's latest sex scandal.

Also a bit off topic but Trump started that rumor.  Her vacation was planned a long time ago.

[Satchels of gold]

How was Anna counseling young women in juvenile Hall with only a home school education? Was she actually doing social work, or just preaching? Supposedly she's so simple and naive but here she is speaking with girls her age, with not any more wisdom then they had, and look where they ended up.

I don't buy that she is unable to leave because she has no support. Others have done it, from other cults and religions. Maybe she just doesn't want to struggle, but remain faithful to her in-laws, where the source of power and money in her world.

How was Anna counseling young women in juvenile Hall with only a home school education? Was she actually doing social work, or just preaching? Supposedly she's so simple and naive but here she is speaking with girls her age, with not any more wisdom then they had, and look where they ended up.

I don't buy that she is unable to leave because she has no support. Others have done it, from other cults and religions. Maybe she just doesn't want to struggle, but remain faithful to her in-laws, where the source of power and money in her world.

In order to call yourself a social worker you have to have at minimum a master's degree from an accredited school so whatever she was doing, it wasn't social work. More like, I don't to wash pots all afternoon so I will go listen to to the Jesus girl.

As for Hillary she was a Yale trained lawyer....she had choices.

Edited August 21, 2015 by nc socialworker

[camom]

I definitely think Anna will stay with Josh, if for no other reason than her church tells her she has to.  When I got a divorce from my cheating ex, a friend who is semi-fundie told me that the only reason men ever cheat is because their wives aren't meeting their needs.  It is always the wife's fault.

[subber]

Josh and Anna were both 20 when God laid it on their hearts to marry. For Anna, popping out offspring was paramount, while Josh at long last had a sanctioned venue for sexual release. His choices for Mrs. Josh Duggar, however, were extremely limited. While he no doubt fantasized about bedding strippers and porn stars, he had to pick from among a small cadre of fundie girls who only wore long skirts and puffy sleeved blouses, and whose conversation revolved around favorite Bible verses.

I have no doubt that Anna tried her hardest to please, but there's simply no way she could compete with what Josh was seeing online and wanted to experience for himself. At 20, he was completely unready to settle down and be anybody's husband. He remained like a hungry kid in an ice cream shop wanting to sample a bunch of different flavors and,apparently, he did.

Josh is responsible for this mess, but the culture in which they were both raised did them no favors. This has less to do with who Anna is, but a lot to do with what Anna represents --the sweet, modest girl with a closet full of long skirts and puffy blouses who wants nothing more than to be a dutiful wife and good mother. Josh no doubt respects all that, but that isn't what he wants as evidenced by his Ashley Madison and okcupid profiles. He wants plenty of casual sex with no responsibility, and he will no doubt continue to pursue it. Anna may have been turning a blind eye all along or this may have come as a shock. Either way, she's probably in it for the long haul as marriage and motherhood is all she knows and she neither wants nor needs anything more.

Edited August 21, 2015 by subber

[Honey]

Poor Joshie.  He obviously isn't attracted to Anna because she isn't related to him.

[HumblePi]

How was Anna counseling young women in juvenile Hall with only a home school education? Was she actually doing social work, or just preaching? Supposedly she's so simple and naive but here she is speaking with girls her age, with not any more wisdom then they had, and look where they ended up.

I don't buy that she is unable to leave because she has no support. Others have done it, from other cults and religions. Maybe she just doesn't want to struggle, but remain faithful to her in-laws, where the source of power and money in her world.

In order to leave Josh, Anna will not only have to leave with 4 little children in tow, but will she really have a place to go? Yes, she has parents and siblings, but remember, they're also part of the religious cult that blames women for all the faults of men. Will they accept her into their home again and still be able to remain faithful to the teachings of their faith? There will be a contradiction of their religious beliefs. I'm sure they will encourage Anna to stay the course, remain with Josh and accept the fate she's been dealt with.

[penguinnj]

 

Her motives aren't political or even financial. Her reasons for turning the other cheek and accepting Josh's infidelities are deep-seated and bred into her. She just isn't capable emotionally of doing what a normal woman does instinctively.

I tend to think the motives are more driven by ego.  Literally- I CAN NOT have been wrong about every choice I have made in my life.  It would mean admitting that you are a a complete idiot- a sheep- an automaton.  No one wants to think that of themselves.  This goes for both Josh, Anna, and the rest of the Ds.  You can not commit yourself to a lifelong belief system and then admit you were completely fooled.  You look bad- plain and simple- and people will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid thinking that of themselves.  If you do- and that's a bit IF- - then you have to be a victim.  And while that mindset has it's advantages- lack or responsibility etc- it can be very hard to get there.  What I want is the big tell all- not from a family member but from the crew.  I would love to hear what an "outsider" thought of Joshie & Co.