Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[ariel]

http://matthewbdrake.com/2015/05/23/three-reasons-why-you-should-shut-up-about-the-josh-duggar-scandal/

Just read this about one person's view about discussing the molestation, etc.

Matthew is the one who is ill-informed & should stfu.

Edited May 25, 2015 by ariel

[ghoulina]

It seems they're harder to get than I thought. Maybe Anna could get a divorce then ask the congregation for forgiveness. That seems to be a solid option with these folk. *Barf*

 

Sadly I think the only ones who can just confess and receive absolution from the church are the men. Surely all Anna would get is admonitions on how this is somehow her fault.

[natyxg]

I had read that the molestation took place in the communal bedroom of the girls. Which to me, is even worse than the molestation taking place in a closet or in a computer room or ANYWHERE else in that house. The little ones were there in their own twin beds during these incidents. I had read one article that made light of the whole thing by saying that "he touched her breasts and vaginal area and all the while the girl was reading a book."  Holy shit, how could anyone try to make it sound as though the girl was bored and not alarmed or scared?  If any one of the girls was 'reading a book' while being sexually molested by her older brother, it was probably the Bible and she was asking for forgiveness for causing him to lust and do that to her. That's the way this cult thinks.

 

This feels super inaccurate. One of the most interesting things about this whole thing is seeing how the story keeps changing as people keep repeating it.

 

I read the report as best as I could, cause it was really hard with so many of the words blacked out, but what I understood was that he would go into the room when the girls were asleep. There was also a similar incident with a girl who was visiting (or was it babysitting?) and fell asleep on the couch. But things escalated and there was an incident in the middle of the day in the laundry room, plus the reading book incident, which was completely different from the bolded and was probably the worst incident, imo. I found it very disturbing. It is on page 22. It was after the book incident, according to the child being interviewed, that he was sent away, almost immediately.

 

Someone correct me if I got it wrong cause, like I said, it was a headache to read.

Edited May 25, 2015 by natyxg

[Chalby]

I think true forgiveness, not the forced "forgiveness" inflicted on the Duggar girls, is probably similar. It's done more to heal yourself than to lie to yourself and others about any "goodness" in the other person. 

Good post. That goes hand in hand with the ideation that one can "forgive" but one will never "forget", that way the behaviour won't be allowed to continue.

[Literata]

My belief is that Anna knew before she married Josh that he had committed "mistakes," but there's no way she knew he was going to third base with his own sisters, including one who was 4. How can anyone defend these acts of absolute depravity and violence? Jesus. There is just no fucking way.

I wonder how in the world she could fathom being intimate with him now. And how she can't wonder, deep down, if he's ever touched MacKynzie.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Literata

[backformore]

One of the most frustrating things for me is that Duggar supporters keep harping that the parents turned Josh in (they didn't) and they got both Josh and his victims "counseling" (they didn't).

 

"Counseling" is a very ambiguous word.  A person could have a heart to heart talk with their grandmother and they would not be lying if they said they had received "counseling".  Any idiot can hang a shingle outside their door or place an ad in the paper claiming to be a therapist.  There is no regulatory body overseeing "therapists".

 

What these children needed was to see a licensed clinical psychologist (a position that it is illegal to claim to hold if you do not, unlike therapist), but their supporters think they have received all the "counseling" they needed.  It makes my blood boil.

That's not exactly true. States have licensing laws for therapists. I am a licensed clinical professional counselor. That means, in my state, a master's degree in psychology plus at least 2years of experience under supervision, passing a licensing test And 30 hours of continuing education credits every 3years. Those are the qualifications needed in my state to call yourself a licensed psychotherapist.

[HumblePi]

Michael & Guinn Seewald must be very busy today deleting all replies to comments that aren't positive and praising the Duggar family. I've left 5 replies to comments there, and they have all 'waiting moderation',  they are there one minute,  then they aren't.  Poof.

[leighdear]

Damage control, HumblePi.  If they had documents to shred, there would be feverish activity in that household.  These days, you just need a good Wi-Fi connection, plenty of caffeine and fingers that don't cramp as they continually hit that "delete" button.  

[becca3891]

This feels super inaccurate. One of the most interesting things about this whole thing is seeing how the story keeps changing as people keep repeating it.

 

I read the report as best as I could, cause it was really hard with so many of the words blacked out, but what I understood was that he would go into the room when the girls were asleep. There was also a similar incident with a girl who was visiting (or was it babysitting?) and fell asleep on the couch. But things escalated and there was an incident in the middle of the day in the laundry room, plus and the reading book incident, which was completely different than the bolded and was probably the worst incident, imo. I found it very disturbing. It is on page 22.

 

Someone correct me if I got it wrong cause, like I said, it was a headache to read.

Yes, the book reading on lap incident with the youngest victim (I guess we are no longer naming them?) was especially troubling. While reading a book out loud to his siblings, Josh reached into her pants that she was wearing underneath her dress and touched her. She threw her book down and ran out of the room, and someone called Jim Bob and Michelle, who were out to dinner, and told them what had happened.

 

Michael & Guinn Seewald must be very busy today deleting all replies to comments that aren't positive and praising the Duggar family. I've left 5 replies to comments there, and they have all 'waiting moderation',  they are there one minute,  then they aren't.  Poof.

I swallowed my pride and made my post civil enough that it would not get deleted, because I wanted them and their followers to actually be able to read and consider what I had to say.

[TaxNerd]

My belief is that Anna knew before she married Josh that he had committed "mistakes," but there's no way she knew he was going to third base with his own sisters, including one who was 4.

I kind of wonder if she even knows it now.

[autumnh]

My husband...who does not "watch" the Duggars but who has been present on the couch with the Ipad while I watched it said to me just now...

 

I wonder why Kirk Cameron hasn't said a word. I thought...yes...I wonder why. I am betting ol' Kirk is running as far away from this as possible.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_5oDxd0p-A

[Literata]

The Willises are on in the background as I fold laundry. I'm not terribly interested in this family, but my God, it's a huge relief to assume that, while I can't stand the oldest daughter's singing voice, the oldest brother in that house is most likely keeping his hands off the rest of his siblings.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm emotionally exhausted by all this. My husband can't fathom why I'm so upset about kids I've never met, and with whom I have absolutely nothing in common, ideologically or otherwise.

But when you think about it -- not to be melodramatic, but we've seen footage of eight of them drawing their first breaths. It's difficult not to feel some sense of affection, and a very real sense of horror.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Literata

[NextIteration]

The inaccuracies in comments across tehInterwebz is pretty astounding but expected in a situation such as this.  I was sort of wondering, because I'm mostly just reading links and not many comments but here and there mostly on liberal aggregators and websites, what the true "whole" reaction to this story was since I've mostly cocooned myself here.  It would seem with the new post by People that reaction is really breaking against Boob, Me'Chelle and Josh (did I get that right?) and that the Christian right is breaking their necks trying to quell the uprising.

 

I feel so bad for the girls that I almost feel guilty that I'm pleased that people are recognizing all of this for what it is, even if they aren't taking in all of the political minutia of the situation, white male patriarchy, victim shaming, rape culture and all of that.  I'm also pleased that so many other survivors are speaking out, have found our collective voices.  It's about damn time, maybe, just maybe this is a turning point?  I just hate that it might be expense of these girls.

 

I think from what I've been watching, the website FreeJinger deserves some credit in all of this because they have been shit disturbing and emailing all kinds of news outlets with info about the training center, the "Alice" posts and other things.

 

I guess the best I can do is send kind healing thoughts to all my fellow survivors, including the Duggar girls +1. ♥

[Fuzzysox]

The Willises are on in the background as I fold laundry. I'm not terribly interested in this family, but my God, it's a huge relief to assume that, while I can't stand the oldest daughter's singing voice, the oldest brother in that house is most likely keeping his hands off the rest of his siblings.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm emotionally exhausted by all this. My husband can't fathom why I'm so upset about kids I've never met, and with whom I have absolutely nothing in common, ideologically or otherwise.

But when you think about it -- not to be melodramatic, but we've seen footage of eight of them drawing their first breaths. It's difficult not to feel some sense of affection, and a very real sense of horror.

We are all on the same boat. I couldn't sleep last night. We all knew they were strange but none of us were prepared for this.

[ms.o]

I just re watched the Digging in episode. It's so different in hindsight. Michelle's comment about how if you stir up desires in a male that cannot be "righteously fulfilled" then You are responsible. They immediately showed Jinger and Jessa - and their faces made me tear up.

[CofCinci]

I just re watched the Digging in episode. It's so different in hindsight. Michelle's comment about how if you stir up desires in a male that cannot be "righteously fulfilled" then You are responsible. They immediately showed Jinger and Jessa - and their faces made me tear up.

What the hell is wrong with Michelle?!

[msblossom]

Yes, the book reading on lap incident with the youngest victim (I guess we are no longer naming them?) was especially troubling. While reading a book out loud to his siblings, Josh reached into her pants that she was wearing underneath her dress and touched her. She threw her book down and ran out of the room, and someone called Jim Bob and Michelle, who were out to dinner, and told them what had happened.

According to Alice, it was the 2nd eldest daughter who told on Josh. ETA: I don't know if this is the specific violation that prompted her to tell on Josh or not.

Interesting, bc many years later he referred to this sibling as a 'snitch' on the All about Jill episode last year.

Edited May 25, 2015 by msblossom

[ehr1006]

I haven't seen this one posted yet: http://www.people.com/article/online-commenter-warned-josh-duggar-molestation

 

People is really singing a different tune now, aren't they?

[Fuzzysox]

What the hell is wrong with Michelle?!

She drank TOO much Kool-Aid. The only way to fix her is to de-program her and the rest of the family. They could benefit from a visit from Carolyn Jessop.....I've said this time and again.

[merylinkid]

It doesn't matter where you got married if you want an annulment/divorce.   It matters where you are living when you decide to split up.   That is the state whose laws apply.   Until this weekend, Josh and Anna were living in Maryland.   Which does not have an annulment statute and it can only be granted in certain circumstances.   Fraud is only impotence, not finding out your husband was molesting his sisters.    A divorce is not all that easy either (the state was founded by Catholics and the legislature has never forgotten that).   

 

I do wonder if the license was issued in Arkansas and the ceremony was in Florida about the legality of that.  Most licenses are only for the state/county in which they are issued.   And to have a ceremony you have to have a license.   Common law does not apply here because that would be just deciding to call yourselves married without a ceremony/piece of paper.   I would die laughing if it turns out they were living in sin this whole time because the marriage wasn't legal.

[autumnh]

I haven't seen this one posted yet: http://www.people.com/article/online-commenter-warned-josh-duggar-molestation

 

People is really singing a different tune now, aren't they?

 

It is amazing how you can go from PEOPLE Magazine America's moneymaker darling to horrible people who will make us even more money.

[Fuzzysox]

It doesn't matter where you got married if you want an annulment/divorce.   It matters where you are living when you decide to split up.   That is the state whose laws apply.   Until this weekend, Josh and Anna were living in Maryland.   Which does not have an annulment statute and it can only be granted in certain circumstances.   Fraud is only impotence, not finding out your husband was molesting his sisters.    A divorce is not all that easy either (the state was founded by Catholics and the legislature has never forgotten that).   

 

I do wonder if the license was issued in Arkansas and the ceremony was in Florida about the legality of that.  Most licenses are only for the state/county in which they are issued.   And to have a ceremony you have to have a license.   Common law does not apply here because that would be just deciding to call yourselves married without a ceremony/piece of paper.   I would die laughing if it turns out they were living in sin this whole time because the marriage wasn't legal.

That would be rich if they weren't legally married.

[GeeGolly]

""Counseling" is a very ambiguous word. A person could have a heart to heart talk with their grandmother and they would not be lying if they said they had received "counseling". Any idiot can hang a shingle outside their door or place an ad in the paper claiming to be a therapist. There is no regulatory body overseeing "therapists"."

Nope. Therapists must have at least a Master's degree and work under a licensed clinician or be licensed themselves. There are multiple various regulatory bodies overseeing therapists depending on the degree, Counselor, on the other hand can be ambiguous, but most, outside of religious organizations, have a Bachelor's degree.

[ginger90]

This part of Jim Bob and Michelle's statement: “We pray that as people watch our lives they see that we are not a perfect family. We have challenges and struggles every day. It is one of the reasons we treasure our faith so much because God’s kindness and goodness and forgiveness are extended to us – even though we are so undeserving. We hope somehow the story of our journey – the good times and the difficult times – cause you to see the kindness of God and learn that He can bring you through anything.” sounded more like a commercial to me. And all of a sudden they are saying they are not a perfect family, no shit.

Edited May 25, 2015 by ginger90

[Julia]

It doesn't seem to be quite as clearcut when you're talking about faith-based (frequently unaccredited) counselors.

Increasing numbers of counselors lack education or accreditation as mental health professionals. The Sarasota-based National Christian Counselors Association requires only that its 5,000 members enroll in either a $3,000 eight-course program it developed or a one-course program with its for-profit arm, the Academy of Christian Counseling. And it urges members to shun state licensing so they may be free to promote their religious beliefs. "If a young woman comes into our offices to discuss her pregnancy, we'll tell her abortion is not the way to go," says Steve Baran, the organization's president. "When you're state licensed [as a counselor or therapist], you can't do that because you can't impose your personal beliefs. But as Christians, we need to be able to do that."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200505/god-my-shrink

[autumnh]

I have to say? 

 

Do you know what I am excited for?

 

John Stewarts take on this and I for one am glad it is happening before he leaves his show.

[HumblePi]

http://bitterjealousfatties.yuku.com/topic/964/Josh-Duggar-Molested-Sisters#.VWJBUo1FDIU

 

I've seen the "Alice" comments on a couple of sites (I haven't looked around too much) but this one is the most comprehensive. She is commenting back and forth with people but this is only showing her comments. In a couple of them she talks about Josh and pornography. She says he was looking at the internet and all the filth that is on there (paraphrasing)  She knows a lot about the situation and lets it be known that she is willing to tell anyone who asks. I was wondering if Josh or anyone had access to the internet because I never watched the show. Maybe that's what his private videography room was used for.

They all had access to computers, both desktops in the computer room and laptops. I would bet that all of those had been donated to the Duggar family. Reading the article and the statements made by "Alice" I've concluded that she's an older woman judging from some of her terminology such as "a pretty penny' and I also concluded that she's a member of their 'home church'. But I can also see that she isn't highly educated which means she's one of their cult members.

 

“Around 9:00 a.m., the children start their music & individual studies–for grades 3 and up, studies such as Mathematic, Language Arts, Science, and History & Geography are done on the computer with Switched On Schoolhouse,” Michelle said.

 

 

[leighdear]

I was divorced in Virginia, though we were married in Florida. (Sound familiar?) We had to reside completely apart for 6 months and had submit a property settlement agreement to the Virginia court before either one of us could file.  I was actually living in Texas at the time, but everything was done by mail and phone.  However, there were no children and no alimony.  Our jobs were comparable and we split all the assets down the middle.

 

An Anna/Josh split would be incredibly detailed and expensive, I have no doubt.  That's why I think it will never be an issue.  She won't do it.

 

If their marriage license was issued in Arkansas, it would be filed there.  The religious ceremony in Florida has nothing to do with where the marriage is registered.  I'm sure Jim Bob & Michelle made sure it was legally registered.

Edited May 25, 2015 by leighdear

[becca3891]

I was talking about "defrauding" as Gothard and the Duggars define it, and my mom said, "Defraud isn't even the right word for dressing immodestly, is it?" She's right. I have no problem with conservative Christians saying, God wants us to dress modestly because private parts are private and we want to draw attention to our faces. I get that -- that is a choice you make about your own body. But here's how the dictionary actually defines defraud: To trick or cheat someone by deceptive means. That puts all the action of the verb squarely on the woman. The man is passive; he has his lustful thoughts thrust upon him by an immodest woman, who is cheating him somehow out of saving all his sexual thoughts for his wife.

 

It is all part of a wide-reaching patriarchal way of thinking where it's all about men. Women are the supporting cast, the helpmeets god created to make his life run smoothly, satisfy his sexual urges, and bear him children. The good ones, that is. The bad ones aren't dressing in shorts and sleeveless shirts because it's 95 degrees out. Everything is based on the male gaze, so she is dressed that way because she is a temptress by nature and wants to steal from him what cannot be righteously fulfilled. Nowhere in there is there room for the fact that he is designed to have sexual thoughts and even a woman wearing a burlap sack isn't going to take that away. How about some emphasis on the fact that we're all human beings worthy of respect?

[juneday]

According to Alice, it was the 2nd eldest daughter who told on Josh. ETA: I don't know if this is the specific violation that prompted her to tell on Josh or not.

Interesting, bc many years later he referred to this sibling as a 'snitch' on the All about Jill episode last year.

Oh my gosh. That all makes sense now. Makes me feel sick. I don't think he felt/feels any remorse for what he did, just from that remark. People who are truly sorry for things they do don't say stuff like THAT about the person who "told" on them. Especially about such terrible things. Edited May 25, 2015 by juneday

[Cherrio]

I haven't seen this one posted yet: http://www.people.com/article/online-commenter-warned-josh-duggar-molestation

 

People is really singing a different tune now, aren't they?

Its called a morals clause and their P.R. dept. working overtime. TLC who?

[Lillybee]

I wonder when the leg humpers will start a gofundme account for poor Josh.

[RazzleberryPie]

""Counseling" is a very ambiguous word. A person could have a heart to heart talk with their grandmother and they would not be lying if they said they had received "counseling". Any idiot can hang a shingle outside their door or place an ad in the paper claiming to be a therapist. There is no regulatory body overseeing "therapists"."

Nope. Therapists must have at least a Master's degree and work under a licensed clinician or be licensed themselves. There are multiple various regulatory bodies overseeing therapists depending on the degree, Counselor, on the other hand can be ambiguous, but most, outside of religious organizations, have a Bachelor's degree.

When did licensing and accreditation ever mean anything to the Duggars? My gut reaction to the word "counseling" was that it was some sort of Gothard speak that roughly meant someone listened to Josh's side of the story and gave some advice, and that's about it. 

 

As we've seen on a few links posted here, most of the Gothard advice blames the parents and the victims for not maintaining modesty and allowing molestation to happen, while placing very little accountability on the molestor. 

[BitterApple]

I don't think Anna will divorce Josh. She'd really have nowhere to go. Her parents live in a tiny double-wide. Josh is going to be unemployable for the forseeable future so she won't see much money in alimony or child support. All her kids are under five. She has no education, no work history and no job skills. The most she could hope for is a minimum wage starter job which wouldn't cover diapers let alone rent, food and child care. I feel for Anna but this is a very good lesson to teach your daughters about why you don't say to hell with education/job training and put your entire well being in the hands of your husband. If you're a SAHM with a degree you have that insurance in the event that life implodes.

[Marigold]

I was just thinking about what is going on in Josh and Anna's home.

Is Josh just puking 24 hours a day? Is Anna really freaking out but staying calm in her statments? Are they holed up in their house just crying just loosing it?

Not that I CARE about Josh's reaction...I'm just curious.

Do they have those crisis manager people celebrities get? Is Jim Bobe like FLIPPING FURIOUS at Josh? Have the girls called Josh?

I'd love to know how the Duggars are really reacting to this in private.

[RazzleberryPie]

Anna won't divorce Josh, but not for her lack of job skills. She won't divorce him, because she believes he repented and is reformed. The molestation is over and done.

[autumnh]

I wonder when the leg humpers will start a gofundme account for poor Josh.

 

I feel compelled to look now! ugh ugh

[Almost 3000]

I had read that the molestation took place in the communal bedroom of the girls. Which to me, is even worse than the molestation taking place in a closet or in a computer room or ANYWHERE else in that house. The little ones were there in their own twin beds during these incidents. I had read one article that made light of the whole thing by saying that "he touched her breasts and vaginal area and all the while the girl was reading a book."  Holy shit, how could anyone try to make it sound as though the girl was bored and not alarmed or scared?  If any one of the girls was 'reading a book' while being sexually molested by her older brother, it was probably the Bible and she was asking for forgiveness for causing him to lust and do that to her. That's the way this cult thinks.

No, sorry to confuse. The incidents took place before they moved to the new TTH. Posters were asking if Josh had his own space in the new house possibly to keep him separate and the discussion was that it seemed there was only the studio space in the boy's room so I looked up the floor plans and noted a closet.

[Cherrio]

I wonder when the leg humpers will start a gofundme account for poor Josh.

Don't worry everyone. I started a Gofuckyourself account for him today.   No money, just used Nike shoes.

  (we all have to laugh, right?)

[LilyoftheValley]

Anna won't divorce Josh, but not for her lack of job skills. She won't divorce him, because she believes he repented and is reformed. The molestation is over and done.

 

I think she will stay with him more as a fucked up way to avoid humilation.  She can stay with him and lie about how she is at peace because of forgiveness and all that stuff, which in a way saves face, or she can leave and essentially admit that she made a mistake in marrying Josh.  Remember, being married to Josh and having kids is her entire life.  She has no other life experiences outside this.  This is it for her, and she has publicly made a huge deal out of being completely thrilled with this and nothing else.   

 

This chick has all her eggs in one basket.  She sort of reminds me of like a senator's wife who gave up everything just to be His Wife.  She is sort of trapped into "standing by her man" at that point, no matter what he has done.  

 

Personally I will never understand women who get themselves into such positions.  We are quite literally the first generation of women in the entire history of humanity who have the ability to get the education, skills, and experience we need to always be able to take care of ourselves if it ever comes to that.  I am 33 and my own grandmother (two generations ago) had to get married and had to rely on a man her entire life.  These fundies are foolish to think that was a golden age for families and women.  

[CofCinci]

I too am waiting for Kirk Cameron's statement.

[Marigold]

I think Anna really believes he is a changed man.

[BostonBlonde]

Looks like May 26-29 there's an ATI conference in Nashville. The Duggars a featured speakers. I made screen grabs of the program flyer, in case they vanish. The Bateses and Wallers are going to be there too.

 

I'm rapidly losing faith in humanity. I'm sure they'll go and be welcomed with opened arms.

 

http://familyconferences.org/

 

I couldn't agree more. Its sickening. 

 

As someone who was also sexually abused by a family member, I can say that I chose to forgive the person who abused me because until then, I carried the weight of the world on my shoulders and in doing so, started to find peace with the situation and the ability to put it behind me and move on.  I didn't do it for them at all, I did it for me.  

 

However, this came after a lot of self-evaluation/therapy and not as the result of any kind of religious dogma.  I'm not sure that would be the case with regard to the victims in this case.                                                                   

 

You're a better person than I...I will NEVER forgive the POS who harmed me but it isn't ruining my life. The Oprah "Forgive for yourself" BS I don't buy. 

 

FYI- he is now roaming the streets a free man (registered offender for a lesser crime) after his latest conviction (someone finally reported him).

If you live in OH & have children, PM me. 

 

I think it's stretching things to consider the "stern talking to" that Josh got from Jim Bob's buddy the pedo state trooper as alerting the proper authorities. A little scare talk and no paper trail. Jim Bob refusing to produce Josh for an interview and threatening to lawyer up when the actual police investigation happened three years later goes to the heart of what his real intentions were, in my opinion. What surprise is it that a homeschooling, home churching patriarch thinks that crime and punishment are also within his jurisdiction?

 

AMEN X 1000. 

 

LOL Yes please.

 

Today I've thought of Anna all day. I'm sure she is hurting. She doesn't deserve all this stress when she is pregnant. I don't like her stand by her man stance but I do feel for her situation.

Josh I don't give 2 hoots for but I do worry about all this stress on Anna during her pregnancy.

 

She should have considered that when she accepted a child molester as a husband.

Edited May 25, 2015 by BostonBlonde

[RazzleberryPie]

Did Josh's $14k in back taxes ever get discussed here? I don't remember but http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2015/04/07/the-price-of-fame-tax-liens-against-josh-duggar-get-web-attention

[JoanArc]

 

I too am waiting for Kirk Cameron's statement.

 

"Josh who?"

 

I really wonder how many friends the family will have after this. Will they still get outside 'friends' coming in to do the teaching, laundry, honey-do lists, etc.? There could be real manpower shortage.

 

Next week's ATI conference will make a pretty good barometer. I hope they're asked not to come, even though they're featured speakers.

[bluebonnet]

I think it was the old house.

I wonder how Anna is dealing with the pregnancy. As of last Wed. she had a birthing center, a midwife and a life in DC. How is she going to deliver now? A homebirth with Jill attending? My guess is it may be just her and Josh delivering at home, with little support.

This will also be her first birth that won't be filmed for TLC and won't be publicly celebrated.

I'm not trying to be dense but why would a pregnant woman and a child not have support during a birth?  I couldn't imagine it would be legal for healthcare providers to turn her away.  

[parisprincess]

When did licensing and accreditation ever mean anything to the Duggars? My gut reaction to the word "counseling" was that it was some sort of Gothard speak that roughly meant someone listened to Josh's side of the story and gave some advice, and that's about it.

 

Josh didn’t need to leave home for counseling.  JimBob and Michelle fancy themselves qualified to counsel the kids on modesty, purity, marriage, sex, finances, bankruptcy, and any other subject that may come up, so obviously they’re experts on therapy for molesters and sex offenders too.    Just take the boy’s sorry ass to an officer of the law and have them give the little shit a stern talking to, then have the kid say “sorry” and make the victims offer forgiveness,  and all is right with the world.

[bluebonnet]

I think Anna really believes he is a changed man.

I agree.  Any different would be a huge indicator in a big change in beliefs.  

[Mrsjumbo]

I definitely think Josh is moving back to AR. Did they have an inkling this was coming? Is that why he bought the house here?

I think JB will get him a job behind the scenes, away from the public for awhile. Doesn't JB own some rental units? Maybe Josh can handle those. The alternative is that he goes on the "I'm sorry tour" to speak at churches.

[MrsMommy]

Tell me if I'm wrong I don't want to speak out of turn.

Ok for 1. The duggars don't let many people spend the night so I'd have to guess amy is the 5th girl, if not amy maybe one of the bates girls.

For 2 I do believe God can change anything about a person and if Josh has really accepted God and asked for change who am I to say God hasn't fixed the issue?

3. Anna was raised that divorce isn't an option so I would definitely use the term "stuck" to describe her

4. I've read somewhere here before that the girls was raised to believe life is a fairy tale and nothing bad ever happens supposedly, we'll I think this incident had squashed that rumor. Obviously the girls know bad things can happen but for children and young adults dreaming big is a good part of life :) I still dream big at age 26