Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[GeeGolly]

52 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

It's also another potential sign of depression.

Not really. If one was to go the mental health route, consistent lack of follow through is more a sign of ADHD.

Edited April 9, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Not really. If one was to go the mental route, consistent lack of follow through is more a sign of ADHD.

On its own, yes.   Viewed in the context of totality of circumstances it is potentially consistent with depression, which doesn't rule out ADHD.

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

On its own, yes.   Viewed in the context of totality of circumstances it is potentially consistent with depression, which doesn't rule out ADHD.

What other signs of depression are you seeing with Jessa?

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

What other signs of depression are you seeing with Jessa?

Lack of housekeeping that simply goes beyond the pale, disheveled appearance of her children, highlighting things like lack of any effort to wrap her children's birthday gifts, her children eating and sleeping like feral creatures, complete lack of enthusiasm doing things with her children like dying the eggs, her own frequently disheveled appearance, the really awful dynamic with Ben. 

She used to have enthusiasm about the surroundings of her home, enthusiasm with and about her children, took pains with her own appearance, and at least attempted to feign enthusiasm and support for Ben and his ideas.  

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

Lack of housekeeping that simply goes beyond the pale, disheveled appearance of her children, highlighting things like lack of any effort to wrap her children's birthday gifts, her children eating and sleeping like feral creatures, complete lack of enthusiasm doing things with her children like dying the eggs, her own frequently disheveled appearance, the really awful dynamic with Ben. 

She used to have enthusiasm about the surroundings of her home, enthusiasm with and about her children, took pains with her own appearance, and at least attempted to feign enthusiasm and support for Ben and his ideas.  

I guess we just see it differently. Every time Jessa shows a picture in her home, there's some new plant, new piece of furniture or new pictures on the wall. As far as birthday gifts, she seems to take pride in the thought and effort in the way they intentionally celebrate their kids' birthdays. I also believe she's raising their children in the way she knows how to raise children, the way she was raised.  To me her dynamic hasn't changed from how she interacted with Ben during their courtship and honeymoon.

I do see a difference in her appearance, but I attribute that to being a mom of three who really never goes anywhere.

[Tikichick]

16 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I guess we just see it differently. Every time Jessa shows a picture in her home, there's some new plant, new piece of furniture or new pictures on the wall. As far as birthday gifts, she seems to take pride in the thought and effort in the way they intentionally celebrate their kids' birthdays. I also believe she's raising their children in the way she knows how to raise children, the way she was raised.  To me her dynamic hasn't changed from how she interacted with Ben during their courtship and honeymoon.

I do see a difference in her appearance, but I attribute that to being a mom of three who really never goes anywhere.

She is difficult to read because she has somewhat of a flat affect, which I believe is just part of her nature.  She does show new stuff in the home and did highlight the way they did birthdays.   But the backdrop to both of those includes things like living at the foot of diaper mountain where dirty bedsheets are covered over instead of washed and, especially when you're trying to push the birthday thing as social media content, you won't bother to take the step to wrap the gifts or present them in some way to make it engaging or special.   We are not talking about someone who has zero social media savvy, and I would judge some of her own siblings differently based on their lack of savvy and differing intellectual abilities.

Aesthetically she is an attractive woman.   She is also a stay home mom of three pregnant with a fourth.  Far be it for Plain Jane mousy looking at best me to even think to suggest she's not attractive, or that she shouldn't get a busy mom pass.   Believe me, that's not what I'm pointing at.   I'm suggesting that there are signs she's lost enthusiasm for most things she once showed great enthusiasm for.   That's what makes me think there may well be some depression afoot here.   I don't say that as a criticism of her in any way at all, more of a concern.   Sadly there's a lot of history there that would set her up for depression and as a human being I hope I'm wrong, or I hope she gets some help that gives her relief.        

ETA   The recent wedding picture of all the sisters, SILs gathered together -- Jessa looked frumpy because of her outfit.   A couple years ago Jessa would have absolutely picked an outfit that reflected her pregnancy in a way that didn't detract from her overall appearance. 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Tikichick

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

She is difficult to read because she has somewhat of a flat affect, which I believe is just part of her nature.  She does show new stuff in the home and did highlight the way they did birthdays.   But the backdrop to both of those includes things like living at the foot of diaper mountain where dirty bedsheets are covered over instead of washed and, especially when you're trying to push the birthday thing as social media content, you won't bother to take the step to wrap the gifts or present them in some way to make it engaging or special.   We are not talking about someone who has zero social media savvy, and I would judge some of her own siblings differently based on their lack of savvy and differing intellectual abilities.

Aesthetically she is an attractive woman.   She is also a stay home mom of three pregnant with a fourth.  Far be it for Plain Jane mousy looking at best me to even think to suggest she's not attractive, or that she shouldn't get a busy mom pass.   Believe me, that's not what I'm pointing at.   I'm suggesting that there are signs she's lost enthusiasm for most things she once showed great enthusiasm for.   That's what makes me think there may well be some depression afoot here.   I don't say that as a criticism of her in any way at all, more of a concern.   Sadly there's a lot of history there that would set her up for depression and as a human being I hope I'm wrong, or I hope she gets some help that gives her relief.        

ETA   The recent wedding picture of all the sisters, SILs gathered together -- Jessa looked frumpy because of her outfit.   A couple years ago Jessa would have absolutely picked an outfit that reflected her pregnancy in a way that didn't detract from her overall appearance. 

 

I agree Jessa is way more SM savvy than Jill, but Jessa still only knows what she knows. She learned quickly, one kid and two pregnancies ago, that her 'busy mom, let the housework wait' standard is/was well below most's, and we haven't seen it since. She's likely now learned that her followers prefer wrapped presents, and if she follows Jill, they also like homemade cakes.

Jessa went from frumpy to "modern modest" when she was home with her sisters and they were all "praying for husbands". She's not the first female to let that go a little after marriage, and as I mentioned its not like she's going anywhere. IMO, during her pregnancies with Spurgie and Henry, Jessa had way more misses than hits with her attire.

[Zella]

I tend to see Jessa's issues with housekeeping as laziness and ignorance rather than depression. I've had my own issues with depression, and I know not every case is the same. But she seemed completely blindsided by the criticism she got about diaper mountain. The reaction to me didn't match someone in the throes of severe depression. It did match that of an ignorant slob.

[rue721]

36 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Lack of housekeeping that simply goes beyond the pale, disheveled appearance of her children, highlighting things like lack of any effort to wrap her children's birthday gifts, her children eating and sleeping like feral creatures, complete lack of enthusiasm doing things with her children like dying the eggs, her own frequently disheveled appearance, the really awful dynamic with Ben. 

Totally agree. At the point when you're living in filth, unable to keep up with your own grooming, unable to keep your children clean and fed... to me that definitely looks like depression. Which is actually common and not a huge deal, it's usually treatable -- but Jessa's going to try and pray it away instead of actually treating it. I feel bad for her.

[Zella]

I guess for me, the issue is I don't see a huge change in her. That would be a warning sign. Like Jinger. There has  been a huge change in Jinger since the birth of that second baby. I can totally buy that Jinger is depressed right now. I don't remember Jessa ever being a domestic goddess. Depression isn't the only cause of someone acting the way she does. Some people just don't give a shit. My mother wasn't as big of a slob, but she didn't give a shit what we looked like. It wasn't depression. She just didn't care (and was a raging alcoholic), but even when she was sober, she just didn't care. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Zella

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I guess for me, the issue is I don't see a huge change in her. That would be a warning sign. Like Jinger. There has  been a huge change in Jinger since the birth of that second baby. I can totally buy that Jinger is depressed right now. I don't remember Jessa ever being a domestic goddess. Depression isn't the only cause of someone acting the way she does. Some people just don't give a shit. 

I've had a lot of thoughts about the Vuolos' strange shift.   PPD was one of them, but then I've noticed the strangeness is also RFP.   The bleary eyes and white tee on Insta have me considering Covid, even a mild case now, or a hidden bout since baby arrived that knocked the stuffing out of them.   

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I guess for me, the issue is I don't see a huge change in her. That would be a warning sign. Like Jinger. There has  been a huge change in Jinger since the birth of that second baby. I can totally buy that Jinger is depressed right now. I don't remember Jessa ever being a domestic goddess. Depression isn't the only cause of someone acting the way she does. Some people just don't give a shit. 

I agree, I hardly see any change in Jessa. As far as Jinger, I don't really see a change there either, because she barely posts anymore (that is a change) so its hard to compare, but during their TLC promo, she seemed the same ole Jinger to me.

[crazy8s]

8 minutes ago, Zella said:

I guess for me, the issue is I don't see a huge change in her. That would be a warning sign. Like Jinger. There has  been a huge change in Jinger since the birth of that second baby. I can totally buy that Jinger is depressed right now. I don't remember Jessa ever being a domestic goddess. Depression isn't the only cause of someone acting the way she does. Some people just don't give a shit. My mother wasn't as big of a slob, but she didn't give a shit what we looked like. It wasn't depression. She just didn't care (and was a raging alcoholic), but even when she was sober, she just didn't care. 

that is how I see Jessa as well. She is raising her kids with TTH method. grazing for food, not much cleaning, sleep where they drop and she is content. She admits she is lazy about cooking/food and eats things cold from the refrigerator because she is too lazy to heat it. Just as JB ate cold soup or vegetables straight from the can.

Edited April 9, 2021 by crazy8s

[Zella]

Just now, crazy8s said:

that is how I see Jessa as well. She is raising her kids with TTH method. grazing for food, not much cleaning, sleep where they drop and she content. She admits she is lazy about cooking/food and eats things cold from the refrigerator because she is too lazy to heat it. Just as JB ate cold soup or vegetables straight from the can.

Yes and I think the starting point is so key. If Jessa had had a "normal" upbringing, such as it is, then I'd view her housekeeping and grooming and childrearing differently. But she is just repeating the lessons she learned at home. This has been normalized for her--it's not a behavior she has lapsed into as an adult. It was how she was raised. She depicts these things because, even though she is a touch more aware of how the family looks stupid, she is still very sheltered and ignorant. And then she gets blindsided and defensive when people's reactions are ones of shock and disgust. 

I guess at the end of the day, I think it is just problematic to assume someone is depressed because they are a slob or indifferent to their kids' appearance, especially when this is how they have always been. Some people are just nasty and indifferent. 

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

that is how I see Jessa as well. She is raising her kids with TTH method. grazing for food, not much cleaning, sleep where they drop and she is content. She admits she is lazy about cooking/food and eats things cold from the refrigerator because she is too lazy to heat it. Just as JB ate cold soup or vegetables straight from the can.

If that is what's happening, it's going to be interesting to watch how media savvy Jessa internalizes and adapts, or not, to TTH methods repeatedly attracting negative comments and chatter.

[rue721]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I guess at the end of the day, I think it is just problematic to assume someone is depressed because they are a slob or indifferent to their kids' appearance, especially when this is how they have always been. Some people are just nasty and indifferent. 

Well maybe, but at the same time I think it's problematic to write off someone throwing up classic mental illness red flags as just her being a nasty, indifferent slob.

It's moot anyhow, we can't diagnose her, and I doubt she's going to seek a diagnosis or any real help herself, either.

I just identify with her because she's doing similar things to me when I went through a very difficult depressive episode. I see her as struggling and empathize... but of course, that doesn't mean my perception is objective truth! Who really knows what's going on or what would help -- probably not even Jessa.

ETA: I think we are basically in agreement that this isn't a healthy way to live, though. Living in filth, not feeding your children meals or giving them proper places to sleep... Not a good plan. I wish Ben would step in and start addressing all this, but he doesn't seem interested.

Edited April 9, 2021 by rue721

[Zella]

59 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Well maybe, but at the same time I think it's problematic to write off someone throwing up classic mental illness red flags as just her being a nasty, indifferent slob.

It's moot anyhow, we can't diagnose her, and I doubt she's going to seek a diagnosis or any real help herself, either.

I just identify with her because she's doing similar things to me when I went through a very difficult depressive episode. I see her as struggling and empathize... but of course, that doesn't mean my perception is objective truth! Who really knows what's going on or what would help -- probably not even Jessa.

ETA: I think we are basically in agreement that this isn't a healthy way to live, though. Living in filth, not feeding your children meals or giving them proper places to sleep... Not a good plan. I wish Ben would step in and start addressing all this, but he doesn't seem interested.

Well, with my own experiences with depression, I don't find it very likely someone who is struggling with major depression would be filming their filthy house to show off their parenting, which is what she was doing. In my experience, the person who is depressed is embarrassed and withdraws rather than displaying it for the world to see and then being bewildered by the reception it gets.  

It's not an issue of coldly dismissing red flags. It's a matter of acknowledging there are significant contextual reasons for her behavior that are just as pertinent as behaviors that, yes, in isolation can mean depression but they also can mean a lot of other things. (I mean, those can also be signs of schizophrenia, too, though nothing about her behavior suggests she is schizophrenic.)

What I'm pointing out as problematic is identifying them as signs of depression without acknowledging that there are other reasons for that behavior that are just as probable, if not more. 

Admittedly, I'm perhaps sensitive to this because when I wasn't depressed, I had well-meaning people assume I was based on things that I suppose could look like depression but don't automatically mean they are. (It made me feel like shit and was incredibly demoralizing and hurtful.) Incidentally, those people never recognized when I was actually depressed. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Zella

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

Well, with my own experiences with depression, I don't find it very likely someone who is struggling with major depression would be filming their filthy house to show off their parenting, which is what she was doing. In my experience, the person who is depressed is embarrassed and withdraws rather than displaying it for the world to see and then being bewildered by the reception it gets.  

It's not an issue of coldly dismissing red flags. It's a matter of acknowledging there are significant contextual reasons for her behavior that are just as pertinent as behaviors that, yes, in isolation can mean depression but they also can mean a lot of other things. 

What I'm pointing out as problematic is identifying them as signs of depression without acknowledging that there are other reasons for that. 

Admittedly, I'm perhaps sensitive to this because when I wasn't depressed, I had well-meaning people assume I was based on things that I suppose could look like depression but don't automatically mean they are. Incidentally, those people never recognized when I was actually depressed. 

I'm with you.  I think most people who are depressed are well aware that they aren't meeting basic standards of cleanliness and organization; they are embarrassed about it and try to hide it.

Jessa has never done that.  She proudly showed us the pile of dirty diapers on the dresser and told us about sleeping on puke stained sheets for weeks.  With her, I get the impression that she had no idea that the standards she was raised with are far below those of most people.  She spent her entire childhood being told that the Duggars were better, smarter and luckier than the rest of the world because 'they did things a little different' and it was a shock to her when the public on social media didn't agree with that.  I think it was the cognitive dissonance which caused her to stop taking photos of filthy diapers and nasty food; she certainly didn't change her own standards in response.  And, she still thinks her kids look just fine, they don't need betimes or regular meals or haircuts.  Because that is how she was raised and she is not interested in anyone else' POV on the matter.

 

 

[GeeGolly]

While a newly messy house, or new changes in personal hygiene can certainly be symptoms, or actually side-effects of a depressed mood, they are not criteria in the DSM 5 or any DSM, for that matter.

And while Jessa's lifestyle may look to be a depressive lifestyle to many, it likely isn't to her.

 

[crazy8s]

yes - she has said several times over the years said she likes the small house because she doesn't like to clean. gave an interview or something about being lazy on cooking. There has been no serious shift in her thinking since she married Bin on these things.

Today I am wondering about Jessa's kids and regular bathing. Possibly, since Jessa loves the curls, she is using the Michelle/Josie hair treatment of baby lotion to make their hair curly, so it always looks greasy/dirty.

 

[Zella]

15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

While a newly messy house, or new changes in personal hygiene can certainly be symptoms, or actually side-effects of a depressed mood, they are not criteria in the DSM 5 or any DSM, for that matter.

And while Jessa's lifestyle may look to be a depressive lifestyle to many, it likely isn't to her.

 

That's interesting! I wonder if that is because there are so many different things it could apply to? I actually just edited this into my last comment before I saw yours, but a sudden change in appearance can also be indicative of schizophrenia--and happened with someone I went to school with. The change in her personal appearance was drastic. She went from full glam retro 40s to no makeup, not brushing her hair, wearing pajamas. I saw pictures of her on Facebook and was like, what the hell? About a year later, she acknowledged she had been recently diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. 

But I don't think anyone thinks Jessa is schizophrenic because she clearly doesn't manifest any other sign of it.

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Well, with my own experiences with depression, I don't find it very likely someone who is struggling with major depression would be filming their filthy house to show off their parenting, which is what she was doing. In my experience, the person who is depressed is embarrassed and withdraws rather than displaying it for the world to see and then being bewildered by the reception it gets.  

It's not an issue of coldly dismissing red flags. It's a matter of acknowledging there are significant contextual reasons for her behavior that are just as pertinent as behaviors that, yes, in isolation can mean depression but they also can mean a lot of other things. 

What I'm pointing out as problematic is identifying them as signs of depression without acknowledging that there are other reasons for that behavior that are just as probable, if not more. 

Admittedly, I'm perhaps sensitive to this because when I wasn't depressed, I had well-meaning people assume I was based on things that I suppose could look like depression but don't automatically mean they are. (It made me feel like shit and was incredibly demoralizing and hurtful.) Incidentally, those people never recognized when I was actually depressed. 

 

51 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I'm with you.  I think most people who are depressed are well aware that they aren't meeting basic standards of cleanliness and organization; they are embarrassed about it and try to hide it.

Jessa has never done that.  She proudly showed us the pile of dirty diapers on the dresser and told us about sleeping on puke stained sheets for weeks.  With her, I get the impression that she had no idea that the standards she was raised with are far below those of most people.  She spent her entire childhood being told that the Duggars were better, smarter and luckier than the rest of the world because 'they did things a little different' and it was a shock to her when the public on social media didn't agree with that.  I think it was the cognitive dissonance which caused her to stop taking photos of filthy diapers and nasty food; she certainly didn't change her own standards in response.  And, she still thinks her kids look just fine, they don't need betimes or regular meals or haircuts.  Because that is how she was raised and she is not interested in anyone else' POV on the matter.

 

 

I lean toward these interpretations of Jessa's situation.  The very sad irony of this is that it may be worse that Jessa is not depressed.  There are treatments for depression, but what can be done for a mother who can't be bothered to keep her children clean, properly fed and have a regular bedtime?  

Edited April 9, 2021 by Suzn

[Zella]

23 minutes ago, Suzn said:

 The very sad irony of this is that it may be worse that Jessa is not depressed.  There are treatments for depression, but what can be done for a mother who can't be bothered to keep her children clean, properly fed and have a regular bedtime?  

Yes that is true and is very sad. I guess it's one reason why I find Jessa's reaction to constructive criticism so frustrating. If she were more open to learning or change, maybe she could do better.

And I don't think Ben is guilt-free in this at all, either. Regardless of what motivates Jessa, he seems just as checked out, and he had the benefit of a less chaotic upbringing. Unlike his wife, he actually knows better. 

[GeeGolly]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

That's interesting! I wonder if that is because there are so many different things it could apply to? I actually just edited this into my last comment before I saw yours, but a sudden change in appearance can also be indicative of schizophrenia--and happened with someone I went to school with. The change in her personal appearance was drastic. She went from full glam retro 40s to no makeup, not brushing her hair, wearing pajamas. I saw pictures of her on Facebook and was like, what the hell? About a year later, she acknowledged she had been recently diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. 

But I don't think anyone thinks Jessa is schizophrenic because she clearly doesn't manifest any other sign of it.

It can apply to many different mental health diagnoses and to none.

But anyway, what we are discussing are not actual symptoms of depression, they are behaviors that can help identify depression, along with true symptoms. Lack of energy, an actual symptom, can show up as a messy house or unkempt appearance. Lack of pleasure/anhedonia - a symptom, can also cause folks to slack around the house or let themselves go. Feelings of worthless and guilt - symptoms, might make some folks feel they don't deserve a nice house or pretty clothes.

Anxiety and depression are mood disorders, schizophrenia is a thought disorders. With mood disorders, behavioral changes are due to shifts in moods, with thought disorders behavioral changes are due to shifts in thoughts, like delusions, paranoia.

[Tikichick]

A lot of really interesting insights here.   One of the things the discussion made me recognize is just how much the personality of the spouse and and the dynamics of the marriage of each of the Duggar offspring has impacted the physical environment of the home they all live in.   I can't say in regards to the two newlywed couples, but I think Jessa and Ben are the only couple in which the spouse's upbringing and/or personal level of cleanliness or expectations isn't the controlling or dominant criteria in the household.

Anna, Abby, Derick, Jeremy, Kendra, Lauren, Austin are all of the spouses who come to mind besides Ben.   I couldn't really say 100-percent about Jill and Derick, but it seems that all of these spouses seem to set the bar of cleanliness expectations in their households.  I think Ben was raised differently, but isn't willing to motivate his lazy backside to see to it himself that conditions in his home are better.   I have been quite surprised that Joy's home hasn't been completely shambolic in regards to tidiness and cleanliness, which makes me pretty certain that Austin has clear expectations.  

[cmr2014]

As I posted earlier, I think a lot (all) of the Duggar children may suffer from situational depression, and for some their marriages have helped them a lot. In Jessa's case, that may have been the case initially, but the mental health improvements may have disappeared as she has become more and more re-enmeshed into the TTH.

I agree that poor housekeeping isn't a sign of depression in her -- it's her "lifestyle." I think that Jessa equates slovenliness with good parenting. She's "relaxed" and "not stressed" about a "little mess" just like MOTY. 

 

[Adeejay]

On 4/8/2021 at 1:46 PM, Tikichick said:

I really struggle to accept that Jessa can sell herself the story that she's winning when she and her preacher husband are hard pressed to keep from openly sniping at one another, instead settling for merely openly cold disdain and ignoring each other.

I agree.  Ben and Jessa appear to be miserable and they are not even trying to hide it.  I've always felt that Ben and Jinger would have been a better match.  

[GeeGolly]

Situational depression isn't actually a diagnosis, it falls under Adjustment Disorder. An adjustment disorder diagnosis is given within a couple months of whatever the 'situation' is and typically lasts up to six months. If symptoms persist after six months and the situation has resolved, a new diagnosis is given.

I really haven't seen signs of depression in any of the Duggars. 

[JoanArc]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Situational depression isn't actually a diagnosis, it falls under Adjustment Disorder. An adjustment disorder diagnosis is given within a couple months of whatever the 'situation' is and typically lasts up to six months. If symptoms persist after six months and the situation has resolved, a new diagnosis is given.

I really haven't seen signs of depression in any of the Duggars. 

 I vote for lazy, lousy housekeeper. The girl tried cooking a hot meal for the camera nearly chopped her fingers off. I’d pretty much give up at that point too.

 I think she knows that the money maker and positive attention generator is pictures of her smiling children. Everything else is kind of secondary. If/when the Duggar looks curse hits them , she’s surrounded by younger, prettier spouses, and larger families of her siblings, that’s when shit hits the fan. Have fun being 35 to 40 Jessa!

[cmr2014]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Situational depression isn't actually a diagnosis, it falls under Adjustment Disorder. An adjustment disorder diagnosis is given within a couple months of whatever the 'situation' is and typically lasts up to six months. If symptoms persist after six months and the situation has resolved, a new diagnosis is given.

I really haven't seen signs of depression in any of the Duggars. 

I apologize for using the term incorrectly. I used it because I wanted to be clear that I don't have any business "diagnosing" any sort of mental health condition in any of them. What I see could be considered symptoms of depression, but I think that they are far more likely to be associated with their situation, rather than any sort of condition.

They all appear to be joyless. They smile a lot and talk about how great things are, and how much they "love" praying or whatever they're talking about, but their smiles never reach their eyes. They never appear to be engaged with each other or with life in general.

The don't appear to care about themselves. Most of them are unkept in appearance most of the time. The younger children look uncared for, and the older children are usually just barely more put-together. They don't get any physical exercise or appear to care about what they eat.

They appear listless and lacking in energy. Most of the time when we see them, they're lolling around the TTH doing nothing. There's never any sort of feeling of energy when XXX walks in the door. People aren't ever engaged in conversation. No one is goofing around. 

No one has any plans for the future. There's never any excitement about XXX is building a house, or YYY is learning to drive, or ZZZ is taking a class. The production crew wouldn't constantly have to make up "Easter hat decorating" bits for the show if they were ever actually doing anything.

I also think that the culture of endless tattling has an incredibly oppressive affect, and everyone is very guarded about what they say.

What I see after they marry is that there is a light in their eyes (and I don't think it's just the sex). There is a level of lightness -- of not being afraid of every word that comes out of their mouths, of going to the bathroom alone, of reading a book or watching television if they want to, etc. 

I think that Jessa may have found even that very limited freedom to be a bit too much, and she has re-immersed herself into the TTH, and it shows.

[iwantcookies]

I don’t think it’s our place to diagnose Jessa with a mental illness. It’s making me uncomfortable. 
 

I think she is lazy and unmotivated. Shocking Michelle isn’t sending her a sister mom to help.

[cmr2014]

19 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

I don’t think it’s our place to diagnose Jessa with a mental illness. It’s making me uncomfortable. 
 

I think she is lazy and unmotivated. Shocking Michelle isn’t sending her a sister mom to help.

I'm sure that J'chelle will send help when Jessa has 7 kids. That's when J'chelle had her breakdown and got help, and that's going to be the minimum number for anyone else.

[iwantcookies]

5 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I'm sure that J'chelle will send help when Jessa has 7 kids. That's when J'chelle had her breakdown and got help, and that's going to be the minimum number for anyone else.

But that point Josie will be 18. Guess Ivy will have to be sister mom!

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I don’t think it’s our place to diagnose Jessa with a mental illness. It’s making me uncomfortable. 
 

I think she is lazy and unmotivated. Shocking Michelle isn’t sending her a sister mom to help.

@GeeGolly is a licensed mental health professional.

Edited April 10, 2021 by DangerousMinds

[Lady Whistleup]

Jessa went to the market with Jill today. Jill and Sam are wearing masks, Jessa and Spurge are not. Idiot.

[the-grey-lady]

Me [about an hour ago]: Wow, there are a lot of unread posts in the Seewald thread. PLEASE tell me they're not stuffing yet another baby onto the birthing couch?

Me [now]: Of course they are. It's not like those two shiftless grifters have anything else to do.

[JoanArc]

26 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

Me [about an hour ago]: Wow, there are a lot of unread posts in the Seewald thread. PLEASE tell me they're not stuffing yet another baby onto the birthing couch?

Me [now]: Of course they are. It's not like those two shiftless grifters have anything else to do.

 They bought a used IV pump at the thrift store and have a couple liters of Ben’s blood In the fridge.  Nobody is going to the hospital this time. She’s having a baby in that house hell, high water, or hemmorage.

[ozziemom]

So is Jessa reporting back to Boob what Jill is up to? Or does she truly want to see her sister and spend some time with her? Has Jessa ever mentioned what she does or plans to do with home schooling? I was thinking (hoping) Spurg went with Bin to TTH for some type of learning, maybe with the M kids, but he was shopping with Jessa.

[Chicklet]

Duggars are all one-dimensional beings which is why they are joyless and are lacking in basic humanity- mostly in Jessa it's evident but I think Jana and the younger girls show it also. They only focus on religion and nothing else, I have family like that, absolutely mind-numbingly boring humans who can't even eat Devil's food cake, have no sense of humor, and no interest in any hobby, self-improvement, or lets say normal view of current events. It's a learned and pretty dysfunctional life, to me at least.

Ok I have to add that I knew some amazing nuns when I was a young volunteer at a hospital but you couldn't find more interesting women. Smart, funny, always interested in other people, and they threw kickass Christmas parties. So Duggars could take notes from some really religious people.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Chicklet

[floridamom]

Michelle will never send a sister mom to any of their childrens' homes to help out. She needs those housemaids in her house. Who will otherwise do the cooking/cleaning/laundry?

[GeeGolly]

From the many pictures we've seen, I think Jessa spends a lot of time at the TTH, so no need for a sister to come to the Mold House.

[iwantcookies]

19 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

@GeeGolly is a licensed mental health professional.

None of us met Jessa as a patient in a psychotherapist/psychiatrist setting to diagnose her with anything. 
 

 

 

 

 

[doodlebug]

20 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I don’t think it’s our place to diagnose Jessa with a mental illness. It’s making me uncomfortable. 
 

I think she is lazy and unmotivated. Shocking Michelle isn’t sending her a sister mom to help.

Speculating on mental health problems in people only known from TV and online is kinda, icky, IMO.  Also, likely to be highly inaccurate.

Michelle cannot possibly send a sister mom to help Jessa because SHE needs all of them right there in the TTH, catering to her.  Meechelle undoubtedly felt her life got easier as more and more daughters got pressed into service.  I doubt she will be sharing any of them on a regular basis anytime soon.

Also, Jessa's house is reminiscent of the TTH as far as the level of chaos and disorganization, her kids are no more feral than Michelle's were at their ages,  I don't think Jessa sees anything wrong with her lifestyle and I think Michelle agrees completely.

[dargosmydaddy]

One of Ben's younger sisters (around Hannie's age) seemed to be staying with Jessa and Ben for awhile last year.  Maybe the Seewalds are a better option for surrogate sister moms until Ivy comes of age in another five years or so.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:

None of us met Jessa as a patient in a psychotherapist/psychiatrist setting to diagnose her with anything. 
 

 

 

 

 

That’s true, but some of us are interested in hearing her opinion and trust her judgment. Just as we do Doodlebug’s for medical issues 🤷‍♀️.

1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by DangerousMinds

[lascuba]

19 hours ago, ozziemom said:

So is Jessa reporting back to Boob what Jill is up to? Or does she truly want to see her sister and spend some time with her? Has Jessa ever mentioned what she does or plans to do with home schooling? I was thinking (hoping) Spurg went with Bin to TTH for some type of learning, maybe with the M kids, but he was shopping with Jessa.

Honestly, I don't think JB would expect that kind of surveillance, and I wouldn't think there'd be anything for Jessa to report back in any case. Jill has already broken with JB...what else is there for JB to know?

[Chicklet]

Where on earth would Jessa put a "mother's helper" in that house of hers? Is the poor girl sleeping on the birthing couch?

[awaken]

20 hours ago, ozziemom said:

So is Jessa reporting back to Boob what Jill is up to? Or does she truly want to see her sister and spend some time with her? Has Jessa ever mentioned what she does or plans to do with home schooling? I was thinking (hoping) Spurg went with Bin to TTH for some type of learning, maybe with the M kids, but he was shopping with Jessa.

I can’t imagine what they even have to talk about at this point, other than The Lord. Or what any of them have to say to each other. It must be so boring to talk about the same routine stuff. And they know no different. 

[crazy8s]

Just now, awaken said:

I can’t imagine what they even have to talk about at this point, other than The Lord. Or what any of them have to say to each other. It must be so boring to talk about the same routine stuff. And they know no different. 

Jill: Isreal just loves school, he has made so many friends. He loves getting books from the library. It was an adjustment having the regular schedule.

Jessa: silence

Jill: Derick will graduate this year and be taking the bar exam.

Jessa: what's that?

Jill: I have a new book and some new lotions for after the kids go to bed, you know for sex.

Jessa: I am expecting our fourth remember?? no help needed there.

[iwantcookies]

Jessa and Jill can discuss how they both almost died in childbirth (multiple times) because they refused to get proper medical care.