Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[BitterApple]

Would headship Bin allow Jessa to go out "jogging" alone with the child?

When Jessa and Bin first found out she was pregnant, Bin said his first thought was whether or not Jessa could continue her current workout regimen. Bin is highly attached to having a trophy wife, so I'm guessing he'll allow her to jog:)

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I doubt anyone's making baby food in this family. A post-baby crash diet and cleanse I can totally see though.

It's obviously for Ben to use to make protein shakes for his post-gym recovery drink.

When Jessa and Bin first found out she was pregnant, Bin said his first thought was whether or not Jessa could continue her current workout regimen. Bin is highly attached to having a trophy wife, so I'm guessing he'll allow her to jog:)

THAT was his first thought? Okay, so I'm a runner. When I found out I was pregnant my first thought was not "can I still run?". My first thought was "Holy (expletive). This is actually happening! The universe is trusting us with a human being? How soon can I go to the doctor? Which prenatals are best?" Etc etc etc. "Can I still run?" was like thought number 30.

Fuck this dude. His first concerns should have been about how he was going to support and care for another person and the health of his wife and baby (not just the wife's looks!). I hope he gains some post-baby weight. Or that he was hoping she couldn't workout so he could have an affair with someone at the gym (and gets busted). What a douche.

Also, how many stacking toys does one baby need? They registered for at least three. My baby only has one. Poor neglected baby of heathen non-religious parents..... I also didn't get him the video game thing they registered for or an iPod touch. I obviously didn't purpose to make such a special and awesome registry when I was pregnant.

Edited September 30, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[BitterApple]

Fuck this dude. His first concerns should have been about how he was going to support and care for another person and the health of his wife and baby (not just the wife's looks!). I hope he gains some post-baby weight. Or that he was hoping she couldn't workout so he could have an affair with someone at the gym (and gets busted). What a douche.

Exactly, which is why it's generally not recommended for teenage boys to become fathers:)

[Wellfleet]

Sell them on eBay?

I don't know what it is exactly, but Jessa makes me almost as stabby as her mother and that's saying something. I get that many young people think they have the world by the ass and life will be all kittens and moonbeams, but her Smugometer is turned ALL the way up.

Ben is the village idiot. It's lucky he has the bible to blather about, because otherwise he'd just stand there with his mouth open.

ETA: I hope their kid is homelier than a mud fence, has an IQ of 200, and starts giving them the side eye before he/she is a year old.

 

OMG - I laughed for a half hour - no kidding - just imagining Ben standing there in mouth breather stance. Funniest post of the month here, and there have been some other very funny posts this month. Thank you, oldernowiser, for the giant chuckle!

Edited September 30, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Churchhoney]

It's obviously for Ben to use to make protein shakes for his post-gym recovery drink.

THAT was his first thought? Okay, so I'm a runner. When I found out I was pregnant my first thought was not "can I still run?". My first thought was "Holy (expletive). This is actually happening! The universe is trusting us with a human being? How soon can I go to the doctor? Which prenatals are best?" Etc etc etc. "Can I still run?" was like thought number 30.

Fuck this dude. His first concerns should have been about how he was going to support and care for another person and the health of his wife and baby (not just the wife's looks!).

 

Seems pretty clear to me that he hasn't even thought about this yet.

[Wellfleet]

They added an ipod touch. No macbooks. Such restraint. Much wow.

 

What the hell? Baby registries are for BABY needs - they're not intended for things the parents want. Why not list a tanning bed? A hot tub? An all-terrain vehicle? OMG, I'm constantly floored by the level of entitlement the Duggars have. Is this what happens when you have a tough childhood financially? When your parents had WAY too many kids than they could afford to have? Do those years of deprivation turn everyone into greedy, sneaky, let's-get-it-while-the-getting's-good people? I don't think so. My parents were strict Catholics when they married in the 50s and proceeded to have 6 kids from 1956 to 1962. Dad had a job and Mom stayed home with us, like probably 90% of mothers did at that time. Needless to say, we never had new bikes, lots of [new] clothes, sleep-away summer camp, dance classes, music lessons or birthday parties with our school friends. Our food was homemade from scratch, every single day. And my parents were both foodies before the concept was known, although certainly not gourmet foodies. Just good healthy food, minimal sweets and no sodas or junk. My mom learned to become what I consider to be a world-class seamstress. She didn't make our clothes but she could patch or fix just about anything, including turning the collars on my Dad's flannel and denim workshirts to squeeze more wear out of them. Except for a tricycle I - the oldest - received from my godfather at age 3, my Dad found every one of our childhood bicycles along roadsides, where they'd been tossed out. And because he was very handy, very mechanical and very thrifty, he repaired whatever was needed, painted and waxed them for us. And we were delighted to have them. Dad also found swing sets, sandboxes, a trampoline, roller skates and scooters - you name it. Just about anything fun kids liked playing with in those days. He even found a kiddie roller coaster that he reassembled in our front yard. For days there were neighbor kids 12 and under lined up along the fence in front of our house waiting for rides. Even kids we didn't usually play with. Forgive my rant but I'm so proud of my parents and how much they did for us, and I'm positive it never once entered their minds, either one of them, to ask for a handout. Of any kind.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Julia]

What the hell? Baby registries are for BABY needs - they're not intended for things the parents want. Why not list a tanning bed? A hot tub? An all-terrain vehicle? OMG, I'm constantly floored by the level of entitlement the Duggars have. Is this what happens when you have a tough childhood financially? When your parents had WAY too many kids than they could afford to have? Do those years of deprivation turn everyone into greedy, sneaky, let's-get-it-while-the-getting's-good people? I don't think so. My parents were strict Catholics when they married in the 50s and proceeded to have 6 kids from 1956 to 1962. Dad had a job and Mom stayed home with us, like probably 90% of mothers did at that time. Needless to say, we never had new bikes, lots of [new] clothes, sleep-away summer camp, dance classes, music lessons or birthday parties with our school friends. Our food was homemade from scratch, every single day. And my parents were both foodies before the concept was known, although certainly not gourmet foodies. Just good healthy food, minimal sweets and no sodas or junk. My mom learned to become what I consider to be a world-class seamstress. She didn't make our clothes but she could patch or fix just about anything, including turning the collars on my Dad's flannel and denim workshirts to squeeze more wear out of them. Except for a tricycle I - the oldest - received from my godfather at age 3, my Dad found every one of our childhood bicycles along roadsides, where they'd been tossed out. And because he was very handy, very mechanical and very thrifty, he repaired whatever was needed, painted and waxed them for us. And we will delighted to have them. Dad also found swing sets, sandboxes, a trampoline, roller skates and scooters - you name it. Just about anything fun kids liked playing with in those days. He even found a kiddie roller coaster that he reassembled in our front yard. For days there were neighbor kids 12 and under lined up along the fence in front of our house waiting for rides. Even kids we didn't usually play with. Forgive my rant but I'm so proud of my parents and how much they did for us, and I'm positive it never once entered their minds, either one of them, to ask for a handout. Of any kind.

 

Wow, that's a blast from the past. I used to turn the collars of my dad's shirts for $5.

[Micks Picks]

Women used to darn socks too.  Everybody did those things.  And you didn't need to be poor to repair clothes or bikes.  That's just what you did.  My grandmother worked all her life and raised 3 boys by herself 3000 miles away from family, so no family babysitters around.  She ended up with a pretty fair amount of money and real estate.  When she bought things she bought very high quality.  She also went to school nights and got her nursing degree when she 60.  I miss her so much.  She had so much more she could have taught me.  And she loved me unconditionally.

[MarysWetBar]

It's fake. There's a Bratz doll on it.

Edited September 30, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[kokapetl]

Jessa should follow this self reliant young ladies example.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Kokapetl

[jschoolgirl]

I hope it's real. I like the food bullet thingy. Whoever made this registry is planning on making baby food, so maybe they will use fresh ingredients. Hey Registry person whoever you are, add gardening tools.

 

But there's the gummy candy maker. Probably for Bin.

[Defrauder]

Can I buy them a book on etiquette?

[MargeGunderson]

Can I buy them a book on etiquette?

One for children might be their speed.

[kokapetl]

Which plastic fork does one use for which course?

Also, Baby's first etiquette book.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Defrauder]

Well now that we know it's probably fake I have to say I can see the snarky humor behind the items.  I especially liked the Big Mouth Juicer.  

[Love2dance]

What the hell? Baby registries are for BABY needs - . Forgive my rant but I'm so proud of my parents and how much they did for us, and I'm positive it never once entered their minds, either one of them, to ask for a handout. Of any kind.

What an amazing childhood and remarkable parents.

[Wellfleet]

What an amazing childhood and remarkable parents.

 

Thanks, love2dance. What a nice thing to say. They were remarkable. I wish I had appreciated it more at the time, but I guess that's human nature. Kids never appreciate anything. You don't think about it until your parents are gone. And I know they would never think of themselves as anything but ordinary. My mother especially wished we could have done more fun things - trips, vacations etc - but there was never any extra $$ at all. We were lucky though, in that we lived along the southern shore of Lake Ontario, literally 12 feet from the beach - so there was lots of ready-made fun right in the neighborhood. 

[cmr2014]

Thanks, love2dance. What a nice thing to say. They were remarkable. I wish I had appreciated it more at the time, but I guess that's human nature. Kids never appreciate anything. You don't think about it until your parents are gone. And I know they would never think of themselves as anything but ordinary. My mother especially wished we could have done more fun things - trips, vacations etc - but there was never any extra $$ at all. We were lucky though, in that we lived along the southern shore of Lake Ontario, literally 12 feet from the beach - so there was lots of ready-made fun right in the neighborhood. 

 

That IS human nature -- at least that's my experience, too. That is one of the many reasons that I find the Duggar spawn's endless talking heads about how wonderful their parents are to be so disingenuous. If Jessa really believed that her mother was an amazing role model, she wouldn't need to tell us that over and over and over, it would be obvious.

[GeeGolly]

That IS human nature -- at least that's my experience, too. That is one of the many reasons that I find the Duggar spawn's endless talking heads about how wonderful their parents are to be so disingenuous. If Jessa really believed that her mother was an amazing role model, she wouldn't need to tell us that over and over and over, it would be obvious.

But what else do they know? I'm sure they have never seen such a wonderful example of Wellfleet's parents. I really think, at this point anyway, that they believe M & JB are great parents. They are all about God's army, homeschooling & isolation. I doubt they know the importance of sibling friendships (& fights), family dinners, cuddles, story-time, and most of all, parents who make multiple choices & sacrifices for their children. They think giving birth, being home-schooled and having a weekly confessional appointment with their parents, is awesome, special, & sweet. 

 

And I doubt that Michelle would take off a sweater and offer it to her own shivering child, and sadder yet I don't think the child would even know it was an option to ask. I think the Duggar 19 think that other parents have it wrong.

[Vaysh]

I wonder if the daughters will realise how weird it is to only have a heart to heart with your mum on a scheduled weekly basis now that they have/will have their own kids.

 

Most parents want to spend as much time as possible with their children, it's natural instinct to bond with and protect your young, but the Duggar parents appear to have missed out on the nurturing gene. Jill does seems like a naturally nurturing person and I hope she wont feel the need to suppress that in order to model herself on Mechelle or because she is overwhelmed when blessing number eleventy arrives.

 

Jessa on the other hand could go both ways imo, I can see her both as a hands-off, Michelle-type of mother who sees her kids as accessories rather than people and as a ferocious mama bear who might not be the warmest of mothers but still a mother instead of an incubator. Oh Jessa, why are you such a mystery to me?

[Julia]

I think it's telling that Michelle agreed to start living quiverfull after a miscarriage her helpful husband convinced her was her fault. I have to think being told by her husband and her preacher that she killed her child by using birth control when she was in the middle of the hormonal upheaval of a pregnancy cut short made her particularly vulnerable, especially since she was isolated from her family. I don't think if she hadn't been bullied into it she would have had this many kids, I doubt she wanted them, and to me, her affect screams post-partum depression. 

 

I have to wonder what she could have done with her life if she hadn't spent her life stuck under a grunting buffoon pretending to be dumber than he is.

 

Anyway, I doubt Ben is a bigger bully than Jessa is, so I can't imagine her turning into Michelle.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Julia

[OhioMom]

What the hell? Baby registries are for BABY needs - they're not intended for things the parents want. Why not list a tanning bed? A hot tub? An all-terrain vehicle? OMG, I'm constantly floored by the level of entitlement the Duggars have. Is this what happens when you have a tough childhood financially? When your parents had WAY too many kids than they could afford to have? Do those years of deprivation turn everyone into greedy, sneaky, let's-get-it-while-the-getting's-good people? I don't think so. My parents were strict Catholics when they married in the 50s and proceeded to have 6 kids from 1956 to 1962. Dad had a job and Mom stayed home with us, like probably 90% of mothers did at that time. Needless to say, we never had new bikes, lots of [new] clothes, sleep-away summer camp, dance classes, music lessons or birthday parties with our school friends. Our food was homemade from scratch, every single day. And my parents were both foodies before the concept was known, although certainly not gourmet foodies. Just good healthy food, minimal sweets and no sodas or junk. My mom learned to become what I consider to be a world-class seamstress. She didn't make our clothes but she could patch or fix just about anything, including turning the collars on my Dad's flannel and denim workshirts to squeeze more wear out of them. Except for a tricycle I - the oldest - received from my godfather at age 3, my Dad found every one of our childhood bicycles along roadsides, where they'd been tossed out. And because he was very handy, very mechanical and very thrifty, he repaired whatever was needed, painted and waxed them for us. And we were delighted to have them. Dad also found swing sets, sandboxes, a trampoline, roller skates and scooters - you name it. Just about anything fun kids liked playing with in those days. He even found a kiddie roller coaster that he reassembled in our front yard. For days there were neighbor kids 12 and under lined up along the fence in front of our house waiting for rides. Even kids we didn't usually play with. Forgive my rant but I'm so proud of my parents and how much they did for us, and I'm positive it never once entered their minds, either one of them, to ask for a handout. Of any kind.

OMG...I LOVE your post! 

[OhioMom]

Would headship Bin allow Jessa to go out "jogging" alone with the child?

Not just jogging....but...."jiggling while jogging"! 

The men of the neighborhood should cover their eyes, lest they be consumed with lust, and Jessa would need to repent.

[JoanArc]

 

I know that a few weeks ago, it was disclosed in a People article, that Anna's mother, Ma Keller, schedules one fifteen-minute session per week for each child for one-on-one "Mom" time.

She only has, what,  two near-adult (or adult) kids at home? She can't spare more than 30 minutes a week for them? And she schedules it? Shit.

[floridamom]

Julia; WOW, Bravo, excellent post once again.

 

I have often wondered about the older Duggar kids, ie, Jessa, since she has posted recently about what a "perfectly wonderful" mother she has...Hasn't it EVER occurred to Jessa that her mother doesn't speak, act or carry on like other women Michelle's age? Surely Jessa can't miss the serious difference between Michelle and other women they have encountered during their tenure with TLC, having professional women, interior decorators, interviewers from People Mag, TLC, FOX, etc come into their home. You tell me, Jessa doesn't see that her mother carries on like a child? Something is seriously wrong here, IMO.

[flyingdi]

I can actually see Jessa being a full hands on parent if she only has a few kids. Jessa, no matter what she says, has always seemed to be the kid that knew there was something odd about the way her parents raised her. Even if she doesn't realize what it is. I do think the more kids she has the less involved she would be, though.

Jessa also has that side where her kids need to be better than everyone else's and that takes a certain degree of involvement in their lives.

Edited October 1, 2015 by flyingdi

[flyingdi]

Julia; WOW, Bravo, excellent post once again.

 

I have often wondered about the older Duggar kids, ie, Jessa, since she has posted recently about what a "perfectly wonderful" mother she has...Hasn't it EVER occurred to Jessa that her mother doesn't speak, act or carry on like other women Michelle's age? Surely Jessa can't miss the serious difference between Michelle and other women they have encountered during their tenure with TLC, having professional women, interior decorators, interviewers from People Mag, TLC, FOX, etc come into their home. You tell me, Jessa doesn't see that her mother carries on like a child? Something is seriously wrong here, IMO.

I don't necessarily think what Jessa says and what Jessa actually thinks are the same thing. Just saying.

[egilsdottir]

Frankly, I'm surprised Bin and Jessa's "baby registry" isn't entirely comprised of selfie sticks. I've never seen two people more in love with themselves and the camera. Their JOY is more like YCJO (not really catchy): Yourself, Camera, Jesus and Others.

[Satchels of gold]

Personally, I can see Jessa wanting to be a very hands-on parent and do things her own way. Unfortunately, the fact that she and Ben are beholden to her parents for their livelihood takes away a lot of her choices as a parent. Public school? Not allowed. Private school? JB won't pay. Little league or gymnastic classes? Not allowed and JB won't pay. Etc and so forth for many, many things for foreseeably the rest of their lives unless Ben gets his act together. Then and only then will they have their independence and a shot at breaking the cycle of bad parenting. 

 

I do hope that Ben can get himself together. I don't have children (yet), but I imagine that it would become very demoralizing for someone else to have control over all of my parenting decisions.

As a wise woman (my mother) always told me there is a price to pay for everything, nothing is ever free.

[Vaysh]

I think I lost a bit of the plot somewhere. Do we know that Michelle schedules one on one time with her kids, and each kid just gets one session per week?

I don't know if they're meeting weekly or not but I have a recollection of the Duggars discussing how to give each kid some alone time with mum and dad, to discuss what was laid on their hearts (i.e. confess all their sins) and from the way they phrased it it sounded like a scheduled thing. Considering how stilted, fake and akward Michelle's interactions with her kids were in those FU!internets episodes to show what a precious MOTY she is, I have no problem believing it. I'm not sure they even deign do that much by now tbh; remember how one of the J'slaves let slip that Boob and Mechelle were in grandparents mode these days?

[Julia]

remember how one of the J'slaves let slip that Boob and Mechelle were in grandparents mode these days?

 

How would they even know? They've been handing off the kids when they're done with them since they were born.

[barbedwire]

How would they even know? They've been handing off the kids when they're done with them since they were born.

Grandparenting should have been what they should be shooting for:  you can play with the kid for awhile but the parents do all the hard work.  Not suppose to do that with your own kids, though.  So they are awful parents but really good at the grandparenting stuff.

[Ljohnson1987]

I'd love to see Benessa with twins. I think she'd have a Michelle type meltdown.

[lookeyloo]

Can y'all imagine how much "talk talk talk" goes on from JB if one of the kids/adult kids wants to do something a bit differently?  I can't imagine him just saying "No, not happening"  I imagine him having a meeting with Mom and them all sitting down and him going on and on and on about their beliefs, how they do things, how it is the right thing, how no good can come from whatever they suggested, how they are role models through their TV ministry, blah, blah, blah... Those kids probably think twice before bringing anything up that will inspire a lecture.  At least that's how I see it.  Mr. Lookeyloo's father used to punish his kids with either a beating or a lecture.  They all wished for the beating instead of the lecture because it was over faster.

[Julia]

Can y'all imagine how much "talk talk talk" goes on from JB if one of the kids/adult kids wants to do something a bit differently?  I can't imagine him just saying "No, not happening"  I imagine him having a meeting with Mom and them all sitting down and him going on and on and on about their beliefs, how they do things, how it is the right thing, how no good can come from whatever they suggested, how they are role models through their TV ministry, blah, blah, blah... Those kids probably think twice before bringing anything up that will inspire a lecture.  At least that's how I see it.  Mr. Lookeyloo's father used to punish his kids with either a beating or a lecture.  They all wished for the beating instead of the lecture because it was over faster.

 

Honestly, I can totally see him announcing what is and isn't happening and then making them sit through the lecture (and probably pray over the kid straying from the path of righteousness by wanting to do anything different). I can't picture someone who advocates for beating infants even pretending to debate what the kids want to do.

 

I know exactly what you mean about the punishments. We didn't do corporal punishment, but the kid dreaded my special growthful talks.

[Wellfleet]

That IS human nature -- at least that's my experience, too. That is one of the many reasons that I find the Duggar spawn's endless talking heads about how wonderful their parents are to be so disingenuous. If Jessa really believed that her mother was an amazing role model, she wouldn't need to tell us that over and over and over, it would be obvious.

 

The Duggar kids just sound so completely rehearsed when they start in on how godly and perfect Boob and Me-chelle are. It's BEYOND normal for tweens, teens etc to rebel against their parents. Not all kids run off to join the circus or Isis - many rebellions are somewhat mild - but we ALL pushed back in some way. The fact that the Duggar kids haven't - or at least haven't in any way we've been shown - is just one more entry in the "These People May Be Aliens" column.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Churchhoney]

Very wise words. IMO, JB didn't loan out those rental houses to the newlywed couples out of the goodness of his heart. There were some strings attached whether the couples realized it or not. 

 

No kidding. There are tow chains attached!

[Churchhoney]

The Duggar kids just sound so completely rehearsed when they start in on how godly and perfect Boob and Me-chelle are. It's BEYOND normal for tweens, teens etc to rebel against their parents. Not all kids run off to join the circus or Isis - many rebellions are somewhat mild - but we ALL pushed back in some way. The fact that the Duggar kids haven't - or at least haven't in any way we've been shown - is just one more entry in the "These People May Be Aliens" column.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It is very very very very easy to brainwash a baby. Luckily, it doesn't cross most people's minds to do so. But sick, narcissistic, wildly fearful, arrogant, control-freaky people? To them it just comes naturally. And baby brainwashing is especially insidious since it comes before the kid even has language in its brain -- so it utterly lacks tools to fend it off, counteract it or understand it in any way. Baby brainwashing is easy -- and can easily last life long. Right now this minute I'm dealing with an elderly brainwashed baby. Frustrating as all hell because there's so little hope for counteracting at a later date the ways in which that brain was rewired by lunatics before the child was out of its cradle.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Churchhoney

[JoanArc]

No kidding. There are tow chains attached!

More like an anchor.

[Lemur]

More like an anchor.

 

And I'd go with emotional noose, as you just know these two use every terrible parenting technique to emotionally blackmail their children, if their children ever become sentient of the fact that they don't actually need their parents in their lives.  

Edited October 2, 2015 by Lemur

[Churchhoney]

And I'd go with emotional noose, as you just know these two use every terrible parenting technique to emotionally blackmail their children, if their children ever become sentient of the fact that they don't actually need their parents in their lives.  

 

I think I'm going with the full equipage -- tow chain, anchor and noose. JB and M are sloppy in a lot of ways but when it comes to being control freaks I think they are determined to cover all their bases. Those poor kids.

 

And they've spent over a decade on tv being held up as parental role models. I don't have words for how horrible I think that is.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Churchhoney

[mizkat]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It is very very very very easy to brainwash a baby. Luckily, it doesn't cross most people's minds to do so. But sick, narcissistic, wildly fearful, arrogant, control-freaky people? To them it just comes naturally. And baby brainwashing is especially insidious since it comes before the kid even has language in its brain -- so it utterly lacks tools to fend it off, counteract it or understand it in any way. Baby brainwashing is easy -- and can easily last life long. Right now this minute I'm dealing with an elderly brainwashed baby. Frustrating as all hell because there's so little hope for counteracting at a later date the ways in which that brain was rewired by lunatics before the child was out of its cradle.

 

True. But they will still rebel in some way. Passive aggressively, or being self-harmful, or flat out being ugly to other people (which contradicts always "keeping sweet") or folding in on oneself and disappearing completely. Eventually it will come out. It has to come out with the Duggar kids. Maybe it's even coming out with Michelle by the emptiness in her eyes and her lack of attachment to the kids. I dunno. Rebellion is part of growing and learning--the Bible is full of examples about how rebellion came with consequences AND important lessons learned. Not to mention one of the tenets of the Christian faith is that God is in control--but he doesn't control us. We all have free will and the freedom to make choices. Christianity is not a small square you stand in the middle of and don't dare cross a side. Or maybe I should have used a blanket as an example. Anyway--point is that we've seen Josh already fall off the rails. IMO he won't be the only one, unfortunately. 

 

Speaking of Michelle--I'm going to defend scheduling one-on-one time with the kids, only because I think it's a good practice. It's not a good practice if that's the only time you spend with your kids and that you don't have other unscheduled time alone with them. But, and especially for the little ones, it's pretty special to know that each Wednesday at 9 am is their special time with mom and no one else. Also, when you make appointments and put things on calendars, it's harder to cancel. If that child knows that Wed at 9 is his/her special time, her/him will keep mom accountable. Still, you also have to have unscheduled time too. 

 

So they are awful parents but really good at the grandparenting stuff.

 

Like using one of the cutie pie grandbabies for product placement. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)

[Churchhoney]

 

We all have free will and the freedom to make choices.

 

 

I get what you're saying, and I sort of wish I believed it!

 

The difference between your reading and mine is that you go with the Bible and the archetypal stories, and I go with science. I think, even under a scientific interpretation, that the archetypal stories will be the case for many or even most people -- that's what make them archetypes, after all. But unfortunately I expect that someday we'll find out that science doesn't guarantee that absolutely everyone will be able to make free choices. (it might even tell us that no one actually can, although that's a different story ...) Anyway, I've just seen too many people utterly squashed -- while others aren't utterly squashed, by essentially the same circumstances -- to believe that it's even possible for some people to overcome a very early, severe warping of the way their minds work. I expect it takes a very particular combination of traits to be able to -- and our DNA is complex enough so that not everybody is going to have those traits.

[charmed1]

Guinn Seewald came up as "People You May Know" on my Facebook page. I don't think even think there's 20 degrees of separation between myself and that lady. Probably more like a thousand degrees.

[mizkat]

The difference between your reading and mine is that you go with the Bible and the archetypal stories, and I go with science. I think, even under a scientific interpretation, that the archetypal stories will be the case for many or even most people -- that's what make them archetypes, after all. But unfortunately I expect that someday we'll find out that science doesn't guarantee that absolutely everyone will be able to make free choices. (it might even tell us that no one actually can, although that's a different story ...) Anyway, I've just seen too many people utterly squashed -- while others aren't utterly squashed, by essentially the same circumstances -- to believe that it's even possible for some people to overcome a very early, severe warping of the way their minds work. I expect it takes a very particular combination of traits to be able to -- and our DNA is complex enough so that not everybody is going to have those traits.

 

This would definitely be an interesting debate--although not here on this forum. :)  And I do agree with you about how some people can't overcome mind warping. I'm concerned that the Duggars are those people. But my intent was to point out the irony of such soul crushing control that JB has over his family unit in the name of following Christ--its so counterintuitive to what faith is, what the word faith even means. Basically his family is worshipping at the altar for JB but believing their following Jesus. It really is very sad. 

 

I just realized this is Benessa's thread, so back on topic--she's still pregnant? ;) Seriously, maybe having a child will be a wake up call for them. Ben has got to find something to do and be his own man. I suspect if he doesn't he'll lose his wife's respect and end up living in passive aggressive hell. 

[Churchhoney]

This would definitely be an interesting debate--although not here on this forum. :)  And I do agree with you about how some people can't overcome mind warping. I'm concerned that the Duggars are those people. But my intent was to point out the irony of such soul crushing control that JB has over his family unit in the name of following Christ--its so counterintuitive to what faith is, what the word faith even means. Basically his family is worshipping at the altar for JB but believing their following Jesus. It really is very sad. 

 

 

Sad and ironic to the max. I agree. I've always believed that faith doesn't have the least thing to do with the Duggar regime. Everything stems from Jim Bob's and Michelle's neuroses and venality that conveniently take faith as a cover and then twist that faith into something virtually unrecognizable. Among the many many things that I find despicable about them is their doing that. If you're doing what you do because you're a power-hungry sick jerk, own it. Don't blame a religion for your bad behavior. (Like that's gonna happen. ha. But still.) Horrible people. I will never understand why their big fans seem to believe that their behaviors are faith based.

[Churchhoney]

Ben has got to find something to do and be his own man. I suspect if he doesn't he'll lose his wife's respect and end up living in passive aggressive hell. 

 

I wonder about this, too. Like, for example, is she confident that he could make some kind of televangelism thing work, so right now she's just content enough with the likelihood that he'll be supporting them in a career like that? Or what? Jessa and Ben both seem so completely unformed at this point and so much just elder-Duggar appendages that I wonder where they will get self-respect and respect for each other as time goes on. Especially as Jim Bob's own kids age into professional toilet-cleaning age and he possibly gets antsy to see Ben move off the Duggar teat and on to something else.

[CofCinci]

Another mansion purchased for a sibling and Jessa is still stuck with the mold house.

[yogi2014L]

This would definitely be an interesting debate--although not here on this forum. :)  And I do agree with you about how some people can't overcome mind warping. I'm concerned that the Duggars are those people. But my intent was to point out the irony of such soul crushing control that JB has over his family unit in the name of following Christ--its so counterintuitive to what faith is, what the word faith even means. Basically his family is worshipping at the altar for JB but believing their following Jesus. It really is very sad. 

 

I just realized this is Benessa's thread, so back on topic--she's still pregnant? ;) Seriously, maybe having a child will be a wake up call for them. Ben has got to find something to do and be his own man. I suspect if he doesn't he'll lose his wife's respect and end up living in passive aggressive hell. 

Well, with a hormonal Jessa and screaming baby he might get a job just to get out of the house. There is always that!

[dillpickles]

Another mansion purchased for a sibling and Jessa is still stuck with the mold house.

Awh, little blessa is the black sheep after all.