S01.E08: The Upside Down

[Guest]

18 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

As to Matthew Modine's character , it makes sense to me how "deprived" he/Harkins  kept El, it was as much for him not to have any emotional attachment to her which would endanger their core mission as far as developing her (from what I could tell) as a weapon.  His almost sadistic awe when she killed those lab people was jarring.

I agree about depersonalizing her with a number but then it's really odd that they would have her call him "Poppa".

[RachelKM]

I think allowing Eleven to call him Poppa was about increasing her bond to him, not the other way around.  He wasn't her father; but allowing El to think that/consider him that was how he maintained trust and control.  

[halkatla]

I read a book called Door to december last year, and this show reminded me so much of it.

Spoiler

It was about a little girl that was experimented on in a deprivation tank for years and this horrible power from another dimension was killing people after she got away.

[Petunia13]

On July 17, 2016 at 7:27 PM, lordonia said:

I was trying to say I wanted to know whether she did or not, but it wasn't shown. :-)

Realistically, she'd be pretty limited as an eavesdropping device for cold war Russia if she didn't understand what they were saying. I could see her forced indoctrination including language training.

If you are able to infiltrate another's thoughts/knowledge I imagine that would include the ability to understand them. In some ways it's a form of possession.

this is what I think the main goal is besides surveillance or sabotage . But self preservation and immortality. If one can harness the ability to shift their mind/non physical being into other forms they can do that indefinitely. 

[AuntiePam]

I never got the impression that El was reading thoughts.  Did I miss something? 

[Raachel2008]

On 26/07/2016 at 9:22 PM, CofCinci said:

With the exception of Indianapolis and Gary, Indiana is very Caucasian - even more so in 1983.  Hell, many communities had just taken down their "Whites Only After Sundown" signs (research 'Sundown towns of Indiana').  If Hawkins, Indiana is modeled after a town in rural Indiana near the DoD's Jefferson Proving Ground, those were Sundown towns and the population was not diverse.  I live in Urban Cincinnati and commute to work in a rural Indiana clinic each day.  The county where my practice is located (per 2010 census) is 97.5% white, 0.6% black or African American, 0.4% Asian, 0.2% American Indian, 0.1% Pacific islander, 0.3% from other races, and 1.0% from two or more races. Those of Hispanic or Latino origin made up 1.0% of the population.  My older clients grew up remembering Sundown signs -- some of these signs didn't come down until the 1980s/1990s!

I respect the creators' casting vision as it was true to the demographics of that place and time.  A more diverse cast would have felt anachronistic. 

Ah, I didn't know. I still think they should have show Lucas' parents, though.

[benteen]

Yep, as pointed out we met Barb's mother when Nancy called looking for her.

They talked to the creators of the show, The Duffer Brothers, and they answered a bunch of questions about the show.  Among other things, one of them said he was surprised and not surprised by how much Barb's fate resonated with viewers.

[gator12]

12 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Ah, I didn't know. I still think they should have show Lucas' parents, though.

We saw them and his little sister at Will's funeral. They didn't speak but they were standing right next to him

[Petunia13]

On July 27, 2016 at 8:17 PM, AuntiePam said:

I never got the impression that El was reading thoughts.  Did I miss something? 

Theorists / speculators of this have believed there's a link between telekinesis, telepathy, and remote viewing. If one can manipulate external matter there's a likelihood you can manipulate the matter restraining yourself. I think Nazi regime researched these among other paranormal activity. 

[Booger666]

On July 15, 2016 at 6:18 PM, luckyroll3 said:

 My one gripe was learning that 8 people had disappeared over the course of the week, but everyone else in the town, including the families of the other disappeared, were not freaking the fuck out. 

I think the others that disappeared were the lab workers and the town didn't know anything about it. In the beginning they showed the rope and pulley that had been anchored to the lab floor ripped up. Later they screwed it back into the floor and sent in another lab worker who got eaten by the monster. 

[BellyLaughter]

On 29 July 2016 at 0:17 AM, benteen said:

Yep, as pointed out we met Barb's mother when Nancy called looking for her.

They talked to the creators of the show, The Duffer Brothers, and they answered a bunch of questions about the show.  Among other things, one of them said he was surprised and not surprised by how much Barb's fate resonated with viewers.

I was bummed sarcastic, great best friend, Barb, didn't make it back from upside down....I was rooting for her the whole way!! 

[RustbeltWriter]

Did it seem like the Upside Down creatures were eating the animals, like the deer, but taking the humans back to their lair for those eel things? Barbra and Will both had the eel things in them and the other bodies seemed to be in cocoons of some kind.

[Capricasix]

I grew up in small-town Ontario in the 70s and 80s, and I think there were three or four black students in my elementary school (out of a student population of a few hundred), and maybe two students of Chinese descent. That was about the extent of diversity for my neighbourhood, so the casting seemed pretty realistic to me.

[CofCinci]

On August 3, 2016 at 1:51 AM, doram said:

My point was that it's absurd to use realistic* casting in a sci-fi/fantasy story as an excuse to exclude POCs. There's something to be said about the mentality of a White audience that can, for the space of an 8-episode season, believe in monsters in an upside down world and little girls who throw buses in their minds - but cannot stand the idea of more than one black boy in a middle school/high school student population. 

Anyway, that reasoning would make more sense if the same "realistic" casting didn't white-wash characters into white actors ... this time for "pragmatic" reasons.

 

*realistic - If you take out 3 letters, and rearrange the rest, the word changes to racist. 

I'm not White and I'm offended that you've turned my comment about realistic vs. anachronistic casting into racism. 

[CofCinci]

Look at the 1980 Census date for rural Indiana. 

[AimingforYoko]

Powered through this in two days. Haven't done that since Jessica Jones.

Here's my question, did they discover The Upside Down by accident, through Eleven? Or did they purposely open a door themselves? And if that's the case, why? And is the monster a resident of The Upside Down or is he an inter-dimensional traveler? I hope we get some info in the second season.

[Capricasix]

I think that Eleven accidentally opened a portal into the Upside Down when she was remote-viewing in the sensory deprivation tank, and she saw the monster (and touched it? I don't know, I couldn't look :D). Somehow that opened a rift between dimensions.

[Dev F]

29 minutes ago, Capricasix said:

I think that Eleven accidentally opened a portal into the Upside Down when she was remote-viewing in the sensory deprivation tank, and she saw the monster (and touched it? I don't know, I couldn't look :D). Somehow that opened a rift between dimensions.

Yeah, it was mostly accidental, in the sense that Eleven stumbled onto the monster while spying on the Russians, but once she discovered it, the scientists at the lab did have her deliberately attract its attention, thinking that they were making contact with an alien lifeform or something and banking on the notion that it couldn't hurt them remotely even if it turned out to be hostile.

[candle96]

On July 17, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Yeah, too many questions without answers and stuff without explanations.  I was viewing the shadow world asking how it kept up if there were no people.  Who built the theater, parked the cars there, etc. Usually a parallel universe has parallel people.  We binged it over the weekend because my 16-year-old was into it but I was kind of bored.  I did like the 1983 timeline.  I graduated from h.s. then.  In fact, Lonny's car was what I drove, though mine didn't look mint like his.  

Was Winona Ryder always an over-actor?  Sheesh, and I hate it when they don't bother to learn how to smoke.  The sheriff actor did a much better job, all around.  And the Eleven girl.  Even Mike did better than Winona.  

The monster looked like a venus fly trap.  

From what I read somewhere, (pure speculation), is that a possible explanation for the upside-down world is that it is a parallel universe that had something catastrophic happen to it along the way. (perhaps the monster?) And now that Will seems to have brought back something from that world, is this universe also at risk?

[candle96]

On July 27, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I agree about depersonalizing her with a number but then it's really odd that they would have her call him "Poppa".

To me it was a version of Stockholm Syndrome. He deprived her of everything, and he became her only real source of human interaction. Her affection for him protected him from getting hurt by Elle, and getting her to do whatever he asked.

[Dev F]

21 minutes ago, candle96 said:

From what I read somewhere, (pure speculation), is that a possible explanation for the upside-down world is that it is a parallel universe that had something catastrophic happen to it along the way.

I figured it was more that we're seeing the projection of our own universe into the Upside Down, such that if someone built a new building in our universe, a spooky, decrepit version of that building would appear in the other world too, and if someone chopped down a tree, the tree would fall down in the Upside Down as well. In other words, it's another side of the world we experience, rather than a truly separate reality with its own inhabitants that built houses, cut down trees, etc.

[ridethemaverick]

On 8/4/2016 at 9:11 AM, doram said:

That's a shame. Because it would be far more productive for you* if, rather than get offended when certain truths are pointed , you get educated. Find out why your comment isn't original, and why it's basically racist apologia straight out of a Bingo card. Do some homework on why it's beyond infuriating that "anachronism" is the reason why Lucas is the only black kid in his 80s US school, but the same "realism" doesn't stop Matt Damon from being the lead character and poster face for a movie about the Great Wall of China. Try to understand why that double standard, and any attempt to "rationalise" it, and the far-reaching consequences that lack of representation and all the insulting and - in this times - dangerous associated tropes that go with it ("token minority", "black best friend", "scary black man/kid/Lucas") - is far more offensive than having that pointed out to you. 

*(and so many others, too. )

I agree with everything you've said here. I loved the show but the whiteness was...overwhelming. And yeah, that's what small towns looked like then but if we're ok with alternate worlds and open-faced monsters then we should be ok with a less homogenous cast. 

Anyhoo, I truly enjoyed the nostalgia and creepiness. It was nice to see Winona Rider on-screen and I thought the actress who played El was really good.

The boys were so good, and so authentic. I was a kid in the 80s and those boys could have been kids from my neighborhood (except it would have been all Lucases). The sets, clothes, hair, details were all really well-done.

I was just talking to my husband the other day about leaving on our bikes in the morning and coming home at dark. We would NEVER let our kids do that today and we halfway wonder if our parents were nuts lol. But no, those were the times. They captured that beautifully here.

Netflix has a winner.

As for the finale, I think they've set things up nicely. I liked that Nancy ended up with minor douchebag rather than creepy voyeur. I'm sure we'll revisit that. Also interested in whatever is hatching in Will's innards.

[Kalliste]

Hmm, I'm not sure where I stand on the 'whitewashed' cast. I feel like if it was normal for the times than there is nothing much wrong with that. I mean, everyone gets all up in arms about movies or shows where the cast should be people of colour and they're not so maybe it would be better to encourage those things to be more representative of their source material or time rather than getting annoyed because something like this chose to be true to the area which happened to be mostly white.

That being said I wouldn't care if the whole cast were people of colour, it wouldn't plague my mind about the authenticity of it all.

[ihartcoffee]

Was any one else seeing Emma Rossing at times when Nancy was shown?  She could be her sister IMO. 

I liked the series and while there were some plot holes,  I enjoyed it.  I  am a product of the 80's and this felt like watching those old movies.  

I didn't want El to die so maybe she's like a vampire that's been injured and she'll be back after some recouperation, and Eggo's. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 24/07/2016 at 1:08 AM, Vella said:

Out of everything, Hopper's choice to sell out Elle was definitely jarring. It's hard to know what his motive was, since it wasn't explained, nor was his getting in the car with the two guys outside the hospital or how he came to be responsible for secretly feeding Elle in the woods a month later.  My first impression is that Hopper ultimately realized that with the stun gunning and being trapped in the facility with nobody to rescue them, eventually he or Joyce WOULD spill what they knew about Elle without getting anything in return. They wouldn't be able to rescue Will, all the kids were still in danger and the monster was still around. They could very easily be tortured into talking and ultimately killed. He sacrificed Elle to get Will, to get him and Joyce out of the rooms they were trapped in, possibly forever, and get home.  Maybe he hoped that Elle would be able to hold her own, as we saw her do, and get away with the boys. Maybe it was him hoping that this was the best choice until Will was safe and he and Joyce were out of the facility.  If there is a season 2, and I really hope there is, I fully expect his choice (especially since the kids were wondering about how they were discovered), will come out and for there to be fallout.  I was wondering if the show was ever going to draw a parallel to Hopper/Sarah and Hopper/Elle. Seeing how he's now feeding her, I hope season 2 develops that. Fingers crossed.

Yea Hopper's choice to go Lando Calrissian makes sense  to me logically. He knew from when El was in the pool that Will didn't have much time left. So if they didn't find a way to get to him he'd be dead. If they give up El, then Will has a chance. And he probably figured that if El and the boys were still at the school and didn't escape again, then a girl who can throw a van with her mind can probably take care of herself. And worse case scenario for El is she gets caught but not killed. Worst case scenario for Will is dead in the Upsidedown and never found. It is a shitty choice to make and the Eggos in the box  tells me he feels guilty about it.

[PatternRec]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Yea Hopper's choice to go Lando Calrissian makes sense  to me logically. He knew from when El was in the pool that Will didn't have much time left. So if they didn't find a way to get to him he'd be dead. If they give up El, then Will has a chance. And he probably figured that if El and the boys were still at the school and didn't escape again, then a girl who can throw a van with her mind can probably take care of herself. And worse case scenario for El is she gets caught but not killed. Worst case scenario for Will is dead in the Upsidedown and never found. It is a shitty choice to make and the Eggos in the box  tells me he feels guilty about it.

I think the choice he made was an adult choice. The kids are able to understand morality as black and white, and reference a movie that's equally child-like in it's interpretation of "good" and "evil." Hopper's been around and knows that the world doesn't work like that. Sometimes you have to navigate murky waters to protect the ones you care about. Hopper himself seems like an upright guy and he's also really smart. I can't see him making the decision to do what he did without considering the possible consequences and if there were any better options. 

I don't think he left the waffles out of guilt so much as responsibility of caring for a young girl who is in horrible circumstances. Also, I'm sure that caring for El, whether she's out there or he's just wishing she is, helps him heal some more over his daughter's death. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by PatternRec
typos

[Kel Varnsen]

21 hours ago, PatternRec said:

I think the choice he made was an adult choice. The kids are able to understand morality as black and white, and reference a movie that's equally child-like in it's interpretation of "good" and "evil." Hopper's been around and knows that the world doesn't work like that. Sometimes you have to navigate murky waters to protect the ones you care about. Hopper himself seems like an upright guy and he's also really smart. I can't see him making the decision to do what he did without considering the possible consequences and if there were any better options. 

I don't think he left the waffles out of guilt so much as responsibility of caring for a young girl who is in horrible circumstances. Also, I'm sure that caring for El, whether she's out there or he's just wishing she is, helps him heal some more over his daughter's death. 

I think there is a bit of guilt, not because Hopper did something bad on purpose, but because he cared about El and felt bad about what happen to her. Especially since he probably figured that the worst thing that could happen to her was Brenner capturing her again, not what actually happened to her. The waffles (whether or not they are getting to her), probably help him feel better about the choice he made, along with what you said about other issues with his daughter.

It is also interesting to note that the only people who saw what happened to El were the kids. Their story probably isn't going to be super reliable, so I am thinking if Hopper thinks El is still alive he probably knows something more (possibly from the guys in the car).

Your comment about him making an adult choice and the kids seeing it as black and white, with reference to Lando is interesting. Especially since like Hopper, Lando had to make a tough choice and screw over people he cared about to save others. Of course then Lando tried to save his friends after the fact and redeemed himself (wonder if we will see the same thing with Hopper? I also find it kind of funny that the kids still use Lando as that kind of reference when they would have see Jedi that past summer and Lando helped save Han and blew up the freaking Death Star.

[PatternRec]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I think there is a bit of guilt, not because Hopper did something bad on purpose, but because he cared about El and felt bad about what happen to her. Especially since he probably figured that the worst thing that could happen to her was Brenner capturing her again, not what actually happened to her. The waffles (whether or not they are getting to her), probably help him feel better about the choice he made, along with what you said about other issues with his daughter.

It is also interesting to note that the only people who saw what happened to El were the kids. Their story probably isn't going to be super reliable, so I am thinking if Hopper thinks El is still alive he probably knows something more (possibly from the guys in the car).

Your comment about him making an adult choice and the kids seeing it as black and white, with reference to Lando is interesting. Especially since like Hopper, Lando had to make a tough choice and screw over people he cared about to save others. Of course then Lando tried to save his friends after the fact and redeemed himself (wonder if we will see the same thing with Hopper? I also find it kind of funny that the kids still use Lando as that kind of reference when they would have see Jedi that past summer and Lando helped save Han and blew up the freaking Death Star.

you're right about the guilt thing. I guess maybe a form of survivor's guilt, maybe even some survivor's guilt from his daughter's death transferred as well as his guilt over El's disappearance. 

And even though Lando came around in Jedi which was out in '83, he's still probably the kids' first iconic experience of betrayal in that sense. And if not the first, the one that made the most weight considering how much cultural impact Star Wars had.

[Kel Varnsen]

Yea that is what i figured about Lando too. I mean even in Empire he redeems himself after making a tough decision.  Those kids would have been what, 10 wheb that movie came out. So they may have only grasped that Lando sold out Han, not the background and what he did after that.

[Danny Franks]

Jonathan and Nancy were pretty badass, when setting up their traps. Quite thorough in their planning, there. And even thinking to make a nail bat. But Nancy's determined face is quite funny.

I'll never understand why people cut themselves on the palm when they need blood for something. Surely the back of the hand or the forearm would be better? Cutting your palm open will just make you less able to hold something... like say a gun or a bat.

Steve showing up as the fly in the ointment, shouting and yelling and panicking, was pretty funny. He redeemed himself somewhat after he went to town on his friends and then came back to fight the monster. I have to say, all the people branding Jonathan a creep or weirdo are doing the exact same thing the bullies and Steve's douchebag friends were doing throughout the season. Kind of amusing, really. He didn't strike me as creepy, just socially awkward and having developed a disdain for other people because of it.

I could have done without Joyce and Hopper spending the whole episode slowly walking through the Upside Down, I have to say. The alternate 'shadow world' was done quite well, and it had a very creepy vibe to it.

Eleven killing all the government goons was pretty amazing. It was the first time I really got an Akira vibe from the show.

The CGI for the Demogorgon weren't quite up to scratch, and I can see why they kept it offscreen for so long. Netflix still doesn't have so much money that it can throw tons of it at a small, unknown show like this. But they made up for it with the amazing lighting in the scene where Eleven kills the Demogorgon.

Such a downbeat ending, though. Eleven is gone (I doubt she's dead), Barb is definitely dead, Hopper seemingly sold his soul to the devil, Nancy gives up being badass and goes back to following the path her mother took, and the real villains are still free to experiment however they see fit. And of course, Will has got a baby Demogorgon inside him, or something.

Presumably, all these strands will be picked up in a second season.

[Capricasix]

Danny, in the Media Things topic, I posted a link to an interview with the actor who playe the Demigorgon. You might find it interesting! 

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, doram said:

There's a fine line between socially awkward and hiding in the woods, taking pictures of people in various states of undress.

You say that like he went to the woods with the idea of taking pictures of them. He didn't. He just happened upon a bunch of kids having fun, and I saw him taking the pictures as an indication of envy or yearning that other people could be so carefree. Being a teenage boy, he got hung up on the pretty girl who had been nice to him earlier in the day.

Yes, it was wrong of him to do it, and he admitted that himself. I don't see how that single incident should brand him a creepy weirdo. 

[Danny Franks]

I think it would be just as beneficial if we could figure out the difference between an excuse and an explanation, and therefore avoid making judgmental, sweeping declarations about what a person is or is not, based on a single example of behaviour? That's the sort of bullshit that sparks social media witch hunts.

One instance is enough to define a person?  That's a very black and white view of the world. You see that one scene with Jonathan taking the photos,and you see a creep and a potential rapist. You see every other scene of his in the season, and you should see a far different picture.which is the more accurate assessment of his character? 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Danny Franks

[Kalliste]

On 8/19/2016 at 6:34 AM, Danny Franks said:

I'll never understand why people cut themselves on the palm when they need blood for something. Surely the back of the hand or the forearm would be better? Cutting your palm open will just make you less able to hold something... like say a gun or a bat.

I said the same thing when I saw it! It seems like such a stupid place and yet most tv/movies that need blood in this type of situation will always choose the palm.

[Taryn74]

5 hours ago, doram said:

So once again, let's stop erasing or making excuses for the problematic behaviour of our faves - in real life and fiction - and have people receive the reward for all their actions, good and bad without assuming the black-and-white view that people can only be one or the other at all times. 

I can't speak for the other poster, but personally it bothers me to see a label ascribed to a PERSON rather than to their BEHAVIOR.  Saying "Jonathon taking pictures of Nancy was creepy and disturbing" is one thing.  You are describing his actions, which were in truth creepy and disturbing.  Saying "Jonathon is a creep because he was taking pictures of Nancy" is something else entirely, because you are attaching a label to JONATHON, not to what he was doing.  Attaching a label to a person implies that they regularly have done, or will do, the actions that gave them that label.  There is a difference.

[Danny Franks]

10 hours ago, doram said:

That's why you feel so strongly that calling Jonathan a creep erases every positive thing he ever does. It doesn't. People are neither completely good or bad. It's very possible that Jonathan is a creep - because of his creepy behavior - AND a protective big brother and son AND a brave young man. One does not 'cancel out' the other because people are complex things. 

To me calling Jonathan a creep is like saying he's tall. It simply a facet of his character, not the conclusion. To you, it is. I don't think that Jonathan being a creep stops Jonathan from being a brave young man. You clearly think that Jonathan being a brave young man means he cannot be a creep. If anything it seems that your argument is the one that assumes a black and white view of the world.

I disagree. You're saying that 'a person does a thing, so that's who the person is'. It's a faulty premise, and it's the cause of no end of grief in real life for people who made mistakes or committed crimes, but have then made amends, and genuinely changed their ways. It's a dangerous and easy equation, that far too many people make.

What you're doing is lumping all actions into one pile, and saying they define a person, without grading the seriousness of said actions. Yes, I would agree that someone who rapes once, or murders once, is a rapist or murderer. I would not call someone who steals once a thief, because the mistake is lesser, and the chance of them being able to make amends or move on successfully is that much higher. I would not call someone who does something creepy once a creep. It's an unfair categorisation of a person, based on a single action. 

And nor can you say that something as negative as being described a creep is the same as being described as tall. For one, height is a physical attribute, and really isn't relative. But second, it's a neutral quality. No one will think less of a person for being tall, at least to nothing like the level they would think less of a person who was a creep.

Say he did something creepy, fine. No one would argue that. But what you said is that he was "a creepy weirdo". Being a creepy weirdo cannot be dialled back into, 'oh, that's just a facet of his character', it's an all-encompassing, defining statement. He can't be a creepy weirdo and a noble hero, without redefining what at least one of those terms means. And in Jonathan's case, it simply isn't true. As I said, it's the same thing Lonnie was doing when he branded Will 'queer', or Steve's friends did when insulting Jonathan. I don't think Lonnie would have got away with, 'but being queer is just a facet of his character'. It's reductive and does not allow for any of the complexity of character you claim you're accounting for. 

[Princess Sparkle]

I have to collect my thoughts on the season as a whole (which is what happens when you watch the whole season in two days), but I have to say, I damn near died laughing when the monster showed up at Jonathan's, and Steve ran down the hall screaming "OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD!".  It was such a perfect reaction for someone who has no clue what's going on, and can't fake being a cool teenage guy about it.

Weirdly, I didn't want Jonathan and Nancy to get together, because I thought that'd be too cliched, but I was slightly disappointed she went back to Steve, even though I get it - adult me knows Steve is lame, teenage me would've jumped on Steve in a heartbeat.  At least Steve replaced Jonathan's camera.    

[methodwriter85]

On 8/23/2016 at 11:10 AM, Princess Sparkle said:

I have to collect my thoughts on the season as a whole (which is what happens when you watch the whole season in two days), but I have to say, I damn near died laughing when the monster showed up at Jonathan's, and Steve ran down the hall screaming "OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD!".  It was such a perfect reaction for someone who has no clue what's going on, and can't fake being a cool teenage guy about it.

Weirdly, I didn't want Jonathan and Nancy to get together, because I thought that'd be too cliched, but I was slightly disappointed she went back to Steve, even though I get it - adult me knows Steve is lame, teenage me would've jumped on Steve in a heartbeat.  At least Steve replaced Jonathan's camera.    

I kept thinking of the ending of Wet Hot American Summer, which ends with Katie saying this..."Listen, Coop. Last night was really great. You were incredibly romantic and heroic, no doubt about it. And that's great. But I've thought about it, and my thing is this. Andy's really hot. And don't get me wrong, you're cute too, but Andy is like, cut. From marble. He's gorgeous. He's like this beautiful face and this incredible body, and I genuinely don't care that he's kinda lame. I don't even care that he cheats on me. And I like you more than I like Andy, Coop, but I'm 16. And maybe it'll be a different story, like when I'm ready to get married, but right now, I am entirely about sex." LOL.

I didn't really want Nancy with Jonathan, either, and I will admit that I would jump on Steve in a heartbeat. I've always had a thing for tall lanky guys with great hair.

As for Will...I dug the ending- we know that even if we're talking hallucinations, that kid is NOT okay. Very Stephen King or 80's horror movie, where everything looks happy and then "Wham."

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Steve!  I did not see that coming at all.  Guy stumbles his way into Jonathan and Nancy's plan to take out the Creature, and actually holds his own against it.  Even comes back after Nancy gives him the option to bail.  Not bad, Steve!  You might be a bastard from time to time, but you have your moments!  The show surprises me with its characters to the very end.

I thought for sure Hopper was going to set-up Brener and the rest of the agents, but I guess he really was willing to sell Elle out for Will.  I guess that does make him a "Lando", but I also guess there was a reason for he.  He must have thought they had no choice or that the more they delayed things, the worst it probably was going to be for Will.  At least he did make sure that the other boys wouldn't be harmed, even if I'm not sure Dr. Brenner is someone whose word you can ever fully trust.

Guess it doesn't matter though, because that guy is dead.  Surprised it wasn't at Elle's hands, but the Creature instead.  Still kind of fitting.  It was all his pushing and prodding of her, that led to bringing this monster into the world in the first place.  This is what you get, Brenner!

I doubt Elle is gone for good if/when we get a second season, but her taking out the Creature was a great moment, and it makes sense she would sacrifice herself for Mike and the rest of her friends.

Will is back!  But not puking out little slugs from that other world.  This is not good.

Hopper got taken for a ride by the agency and a month later, he is apparently leaving Eggos in a mysterious container out in the woods.  Hmm..

Overall, I thought the series more then lived up to the hype.  Really enjoyed the setting and the 80s vibe, the casting and acting was spot-on (some of the best child actors ever, I think), and the story was fun and entertaining, while paying homage to past films and television shows.  And very bingeworthy.  Probably the quickest I've blown through eight episodes, because I really did want to see what was going to happen next.

[sacrebleu]

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From what I read somewhere, (pure speculation), is that a possible explanation for the upside-down world is that it is a parallel universe that had something catastrophic happen to it along the way. (perhaps the monster?) And now that Will seems to have brought back something from that world, is this universe also at risk?

That actually makes sense. When Modine let Hopper and Winona go into the UpsideDown he said the atmosphere was toxic. All the folks who went in did so in hazmat suits. And Mike got sicker and weaker the longer he went in. 

[zxy556575]

I kind of took the Upside Down name literately and thought it was the underside of our world, hence the tree roots and grayness due to toxic air and sludge filtering down.

Edited August 27, 2016 by lordonia

[Archery]

My 15 year old was obsessed with this show and binged it in two days (after making me test-watch the pilot with him). It took me three days.  I have to say the most disturbing moment of all of them (and there were many) was Dr. Brenner's decision to send in the agents to confront and apprehend El.  I kept muttering the whole time, If you scare her, she will kill you with her mind -- you know that!  And the agents corner her and draw their guns.  Predictably, she makes their brains explode.  And then Dr. Brenner steps in and she is too weak to do anything to him.  Without the Faceless Monster's rampage, he would have been able to control her all the way back to the lab because she had drained her powers killing two dozen people.  I really believe he planned it that way; he knew exactly what would happen. 

Balancing that moment is the single greatest piece of dialogue in the whole series.  Dustin:  "She's our friend, and she's CRAZY!"

[Snookums]

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My one gripe was learning that 8 people had disappeared over the course of the week, but everyone else in the town, including the families of the other disappeared, were not freaking the fuck out. 

I was counting! The characters would know about Will and Barb, but nobody else. Did Modine mean, like, the scientists that disappeared? The one at the beginning of the show and the two that go in to explore and get munched? Because there were definitely skulls in there when Joyce and the Sheriff were looking for Will--indicating total decomp. That means the Thing has been hunting for a long time.

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I never fully understood what Dr. Brenner et al were trying to get Eleven to do. Eavesdrop on spies? Kill foreign agents?

 

They were definitely trying to make her kill: the cat experiment, but she clearly didn't want to. They also used her as transmitter to listen in on foreign agents (and her inability to understand the language would be a plus--she wouldn't try to interpret or understand what she was hearing, thus not imposing her own interpretation on what she heard). I think what happened is that while she was transmitting in The Upside Down, she attracted the attention of the monster--probably because of her nosebleed. It had nothing to do with what they were training her for, but upon hearing that they could actually reach another dimension the Bad Men of course began exploring the possibilities--and quite likely without the permission of their superiors. Then when it all blew up they were in as much trouble as everybody else in town.

[Snookums]

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This cast could have been a tad more diverse or 1983 Hawkins, Indiana was just a waspland? Same with the government? I'm asking because durying the ceremony for Will at the school, all those folks  except Lucas and the principal were white. The government folks except one were all white, and the only Asian was the teacher's GF. They could have given some lines to Lucas' parents, at least.

Yes. One of the most depressingly realistic touches was at the funeral with Lucas and his parents and you realize they are the only Black family in town. Not just the midwest either: I grew up in rural Oregon, my husband in rural Maine, and that was a definitely accurate demographic for our towns as well.

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Hell, many communities had just taken down their "Whites Only After Sundown" signs (research 'Sundown towns of Indiana').  If Hawkins, Indiana is modeled after a town in rural Indiana near the DoD's Jefferson Proving Ground, those were Sundown towns and the population was not diverse.

There's a terrific novel called Lovecraft Country by Matt Ruff about the Black community in the late fifties dealing with trying to live in a country where you could likely as not be run down and shot by the law of any random town you were in, and pointing out that that life was as bizarre and crazymaking as living in a Lovecraft scenario. The characters are all caught up in a supernatural story, but those elements aren't a tenth as dangerous as trying to travel, eat in a restaurant, be outside after dark, etc.

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I'll never understand why people cut themselves on the palm when they need blood for something. Surely the back of the hand or the forearm would be better? Cutting your palm open will just make you less able to hold something... like say a gun or a bat.

 

SO DAMN ANNOYING. I get that they did it in homage to The Thing or whatever, but I remember watching that movie with my dad (who is a doctor) at far too young an age, and he just got so wound up about cutting across the palm! It incapacitates you, is hard to bandage, and is basically laying out the welcome mat for infection!

Edited September 1, 2016 by Snookums
adding indignation about cutting across the palm

[Dobian]

I really don't get why Brenner sent his people to take Eleven with guns drawn, they wanted her alive.  Wouldn't tranquilizer darts have been the safer option for everyone?

I liked that Steve redeemed himself.  Aside from being a bit of an arrogant jerk, I never thought he was that bad.

I remember eating Hunts Snack Packs out of a can back in the 70s, so that was great.

In spite of all the heavy damage that the teens inflicted on Faceless Monster, it sure seemed to be a hundred percent when it attacked the school.

So it looks like Will is having trouble staying in this dimension now.  And that leech that dropped out of his mouth and down the drain, I can see it growing into something pretty hideous by the start of next season.

All-in-all, I liked the show.  It was a little too Goonies at times, but it was fun and had great atmosphere.  I give it an A-.

[Willowy]

I loved this episode more than the others, and that's saying a lot. When El saved Mike's life and then cried that she was the monster, he told her she wasn't and they all hugged in that little cluster, my heart dissolved. That pullback shot was one of the purest moments I've seen on television in years. 

I also loved the scene with Nancy and Jonathan shopping (bear traps!) then prepping their totally cool weapons to fight the monster. It was an extremely 'Buffy' scene and I was grinning like crazy to see them so proactive and brave. 

[Kreniigh]

The ground rules of the Upside Down are going to need some clarification. For example, a hastily thrown up bunch of Christmas lights and an alphabet painted on the wall are visible to someone in the UD immediately, but not a bear trap? Things get moved around all the time in the real world but they only seem to have presence in the UD if they are important to the plot.

[Danny Franks]

28 minutes ago, Kreniigh said:

The ground rules of the Upside Down are going to need some clarification. For example, a hastily thrown up bunch of Christmas lights and an alphabet painted on the wall are visible to someone in the UD immediately, but not a bear trap? Things get moved around all the time in the real world but they only seem to have presence in the UD if they are important to the plot.

Yeah, but why would the Demogorgon have the slightest idea what a bear trap was, what it would do and how it would be triggered? To it, the bear trap was just a thing on the floor, just like it is for actual bears.

[Kreniigh]

  23 hours ago, Kreniigh said:

The ground rules of the Upside Down are going to need some clarification. For example, a hastily thrown up bunch of Christmas lights and an alphabet painted on the wall are visible to someone in the UD immediately, but not a bear trap? Things get moved around all the time in the real world but they only seem to have presence in the UD if they are important to the plot.

Yeah, but why would the Demogorgon have the slightest idea what a bear trap was, what it would do and how it would be triggered? To it, the bear trap was just a thing on the floor, just like it is for actual bears.

Well, my point was that not everything in the real world is reflected in the Upside Down, and there's no rhyme or reason for it. All the real-world trees are reflected when Nancy crosses over, but the fort in the woods has nothing around it. Joyce paints letters on the wall and Mike immediately sees them on the other side; what if she had drawn them on a sheet of paper instead, and then carried the paper from room to room? Why are there houses but no cars?

If there is a plan, it might be something along the lines of: The Upside Down is a purely mental plane and doesn't really exist until someone observes it, and then only things that are significant to the observer are there.

[Dev F]

On 9/9/2016 at 3:52 PM, Kreniigh said:

Well, my point was that not everything in the real world is reflected in the Upside Down, and there's no rhyme or reason for it. All the real-world trees are reflected when Nancy crosses over, but the fort in the woods has nothing around it.

In the Upside Down, the fort in the woods has the woods around it, doesn't it? It's only when Eleven is remote-viewing it that it's surrounded by blackness, and that's true about everything in her remote-viewing space, including things in the normal world like her Russian subject.

I do wonder, though -- if Castle Byers in the Upside Down is a just a reflection of Castle Byers in the real world, what happens to the real-world fort when the demogorgon destroys the Upside Down version? Does destroying the reflection also destroy the original?

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Joyce paints letters on the wall and Mike immediately sees them on the other side; what if she had drawn them on a sheet of paper instead, and then carried the paper from room to room?

Interestingly, when Joyce and Hopper visit the Upside Down version of the Byers home in the final episode, no Christmas lights or writing on the walls is visible, even though they actually illuminate the lights in the real world as they walk through. So I think the idea is that Will was able to see through the dimensions somehow -- maybe in the same way that he flashed into the Upside Down in the season's final scenes -- and that's how he know how to communicate with Joyce.

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Why are there houses but no cars?

We actually do see parked cars along the street when the adults track the demogorgon to the library. But, obviously, moving cars don't reflect into the Upside Down. Maybe something has to be motionless for a certain amount of time before it will appear?