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Artistic Gymnastics: Stick the Landing!


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I was watching tennis starting at four that ran over the 7:00 hour and thought I missed the US winning a men's medal but apparently it was the baseball game that got in the way.  Alrighty then.  I probably would have missed it anyways since the program guide has rarely matched up to what any of the NBC affiliates are showing at a given time.

I did see men's floor and thought the bronze medal guy was better than the silver.

Al and Tim noted that the crowd was not cheering Sam's mistakes but instead they were cheering because they knew it meant Brazil got both medals.  Sure.

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gymnastics-world-changed-then-turned-000000705.html?utm_content=buffer73096&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I hope every person who has piled on the unnecessary criticism reads this article and thinks about their choices. Seriously, Gabby spent her entire Olympics being torn apart for nitpicks. She got 1 more Olympic Gold but was it worth being America's punching bag to do it?

Edited to add link to ESPN's article with this heartbreaking quote:

http://www.espn.com/olympics/summer/gymnastics/story/_/id/17303885/gabby-douglas-calls-social-media-critics-hurtful-ending-olympic-career

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After Douglas thanked everyone in the press area and gave way to Madison Kocian, who won the silver medal in the uneven bars competition, she walked down the hallway at Olympic Arena. Then Douglas stood in a corner, facing a wall, and had a good, long cry.

It was hard to watch. Every now and then, a Team USA worker took a look at her. Finally, a woman walked over and handed Douglas what appeared to be a Kleenex. The woman wrapped an arm around Douglas' shoulder and patted her a couple of times, then left the gymnast alone once more.

In a Reuters story posted Sunday, Douglas' mother, Natalie Hawkins, was more direct, calling what her daughter has been through "bullying."

Douglas' mom is right, Gabby was bullied by America on social media.

Edited by pivot
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55 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Yeah, they showed the pommel horse live during the afternoon broadcast. 

Gabby has had some great lipstick this year. I really love a good bold lipcolor and she looks great in them.

It wasn't even live. We were watching the live feed, and I remember Daisy saying that she was seeing it while we were watching bars live. This is one time that NBC really manipulated shit to fill time. I guess they figured on no medals for the men tonight, so didn't allow for it in their coverage. 

20 minutes ago, pivot said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gymnastics-world-changed-then-turned-000000705.html?utm_content=buffer73096&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I hope every person who has piled on the unnecessary criticism reads this article and thinks about their choices. Seriously, Gabby spent her entire Olympics being torn apart for nitpicks. She got 1 more Olympic Gold but was it worth being America's punching bag to do it?

Edited to add link to ESPN's article with this heartbreaking quote:

http://www.espn.com/olympics/summer/gymnastics/story/_/id/17303885/gabby-douglas-calls-social-media-critics-hurtful-ending-olympic-career

Douglas' mom is right, Gabby was bullied by America on social media.

I really feel for her, because all of it is bullshit. But I'd argue the tone was also set by the NBC coverage of her. Even the intro package for the team finals, they were doing the bit where they say a fact about each team member, and Gabbys was, "Well Marta still believes in her," as if you should have doubt in her abilities, but well, I guess we trust Marta. All these little underhanded digs, all through the broadcast. Like she was being set up to be stomped on.

Edited by kitcloudkicker
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5 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

I really feel for her, because all of it is bullshit. But I'd argue the tone was also set by the NBC coverage of her. Even the intro package for the team finals, they were doing the bit where they say a fact about each team member, and Gabbys was, "Well Marta still believes in her," as you should have doubt in her abilities, but well, I guess we trust Marta. All these little underhanded digs, all through the broadcast. Like she was being set up to be stomped on.

I don't think that excuses anyone for the way they've piled on Gabby or for the lack of support from USA Gymnastics or the Gymnastics Community. But, I do think it makes an argument for why Tim should be fired since he pretty much was King of Bullying Gabby for the past 4 weeks or so.  

On a happier note, I was thrilled to see Simone get the gold tonight, her landing the Chang so well and to see some of those insane vaults from other competitors even if they still had some issues landing them. 

I still can't believe Sam choked that badly again and that he seemed to just shrug it off. Felt bad for Jake because he seemed to at least care that he underperformed. 

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20 minutes ago, pivot said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gymnastics-world-changed-then-turned-000000705.html?utm_content=buffer73096&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I hope every person who has piled on the unnecessary criticism reads this article and thinks about their choices. Seriously, Gabby spent her entire Olympics being torn apart for nitpicks. She got 1 more Olympic Gold but was it worth being America's punching bag to do it?

Edited to add link to ESPN's article with this heartbreaking quote:

http://www.espn.com/olympics/summer/gymnastics/story/_/id/17303885/gabby-douglas-calls-social-media-critics-hurtful-ending-olympic-career

Douglas' mom is right, Gabby was bullied by America on social media.

What concerns me is that Natalie seems like the type of person who feeds the drama, rather than mitigates it.

I just contrast this with the way, say, Simone’s parents have handled the negative responses Simone has publicly received (i.e. when Ferlito and the head of the Italian gymnastics federation openly made racist remarks following her win at Worlds), and I think Gabby’s got a lot to deal with already. But then to add to it a mom who always seems to latch onto the negativity rather than push it away, that just makes it doubly difficult to navigate.

It's gymnastics, there's always going to be some sort of drama attached to the sport, and unfortunately for Gabby it seems like her support system isn't a particularly stable or helpful one.

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Simone hasn't had 1/100th the shit that Gabby has had to deal with either. I do think that Gabby's mom may feed the drama, but at least she is publicly supporting her. It's shameful she is the only one sticking up for Gabby. The entire Final Five and Fierce Five have said nothing to support Gabby nor has USA Gymnastics. That's pretty shameful.

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38 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I'm surprised NBC didn't show the pommel horse as well not even because of Naddour but for Max and Louis.  I guess they were pushing the Max as double gold narrative, which I'm actually ok with.

Watching west coast feed (FINALLY), Daggett gives away that men's floor is the first event when he reveals that Max is going to do two events TODAY. So yeah, where's the second? Oh yeah, edited to be shown an hour after live on NBC's afternoon coverage. It seems to me that NBC  wanted the Brazilian medal narrative in primetime, not the British one, or we would have seen the PH instead. It's a given we were getting both ladies' events in Primetime. Because USA Ladies Medal with consistency. 

As for Gabby, I get her. She had zero fucks left to give after what happened. She's only 20. Being on the team is great, and she will be a supportive member, but shit, she also has an entire family relying on her.  She could have medaled on bars, but really, how much more money would that make her? The team is the big prize in terms of endorsements if Marta wasn't going to compete her in AA (and that was known). That is, unless you're Biles and can have a relatively good chance of winning gold in multiple events on TOP of team and AA. Gabby was a darling with her AA win last cycle, except with racist pigs. This year, I think she's really over it. To me, she kind of seems like she wants to be anywhere but where she is. Well, I guess all she has to do is cheer for two more days and do some more promo stuff. No more "flag" crap, and she can paste on a smile now that her job is done. 

I feel for her on all levels. This experience can't have been what she'd hoped for, even thought she knew she was there as a role player. 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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Watching the prime time version. First, fuck you Shut Up Al for listing the great American gymnasts and making a point to not mention Gabby. Second, god help me, but Tim FINALLY made a good point when he said that if the judges can't see Simone's crossed toes then they shouldn't deduct just because the Internet pointed them out and then re-showed the Amanar as proof that they wouldn't have been able to see them. Where is this kind of detail the rest of the broadcast? If anything, this makes me even more angry at his shitty commentating because it reminds me that he's capable but is just coasting on whatever he's holding over the NBC execs heads. 

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Catching up in primetime: the men's FX had so many sloppy landings. Thrilled the Brazilians got two medals, but found the cheering of Sam's mistakes in poor spirit. If Jake and Sam had actually landed cleanly things might have been different but ah well. Very happy for medalists! 

Edited by catray
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I liked that he pointed that out but I hated the manner in which he did it: "Can you see any crossed feet, I DON'T THINK SO!" The manner in which he said it came across more as proving he was right than doing any real analysis or commentary.

Speaking of commentary, I've been holding off on having an opinion of Nastia cause she can barely get a word in edgewise sitting next to Tweedledee and Tweedledum but I decided tonight she doesn't add much. She generally just parrots what Tim says and even she she adds something it's like "You really want to minimize those deductions." Gee, in event finals, who'd have thunk? I don't know that I've ever heard her give analysis of why a move went right or wrong, why something is particularly difficult, etc. But I'm totally willing to give her another shot if they get her new partners. I seriously don't think I could stand watching another meet with Al.

I feel for Gabby.  I want to wrap her up in blankets and feed her chocolate. 

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I feel so bad for Gabby Douglas. For all the talk of gymnastics changing out from under her, she still qualified 3rd best in the world for all around. The only reason she didn't compete it is because of an arbitrary rule. She's still amazing, and it's amazing that she performs so well after taking time off. IMHO, she completely justified Marta's faith in her. 

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Yet people are finding reasons to rag on her. Gabby saw the rule in person when if affected Jordyn in 2012. I get that Gabby was Top Dog then, but at that level in her sport, she also knows that it can happen to any person, any day. I think Gabby actually got that this year. I don't think that was her problem; she knows the rules. While she may have been frustrated, I doubt she took it out on the national anthem. I really think she was just done. She's not the team captain, and she's not Laurie Hernandez. I think a lot of this is just being persecuted for not being "cute." Mustafina didn't show emotion during her medal stand award ceremony today. Has she been crucified for it???

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Simone hasn't had 1/100th the shit that Gabby has had to deal with either. I do think that Gabby's mom may feed the drama, but at least she is publicly supporting her. It's shameful she is the only one sticking up for Gabby. The entire Final Five and Fierce Five have said nothing to support Gabby nor has USA Gymnastics. That's pretty shameful.

To be fair Aimee Boorman (Simone's coach) has defended Gabby and has said repeatedly the team are like sisters. One person compared Gabby to Satan and Aimee told that person that is a horrible thing to say. Leslie Jones tweeted this

I normally don't tweet things like this, but I did to hope it will start trending so it gets back so Gabby knows people are supporting her.

Edited by choclatechip45
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In the Reuter's inteview, Gabby's mom gives this quote:

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"They keep attacking her about not smiling but they don't know what she is dealing with. If they did, this would not be a conversation. They would (understand). But this is not the time or place to tell that story," said Hawkins, who raised four children as a single mother.

Reuters

I may be reading too much into her mom's words, but it makes me wonder whether there are more than just gymnastics worries going on for Gabby behind the scenes. I'm a big fan of Gabby's, and haven't said a word about her that isn't in the plus column, but I will admit that it's been hard to see her seem so dejected. I think it's especially stood out because she happens to be on a team with a lot of bubbly, expressive characters and also because gymnastics is horrible about the in-your-face cameras, especially at low points, that catch every expression. (I don't see this obnoxious camera work in any other sport that I can think of.) I don't mind the lack of smiles and whoops and hollers, but IMO she's had "sad eyes" all the way back to Trials. I just hope everything is okay with her and that she's formulated a great plan for when she decides that she wants to put her gymnastics career in the rear view mirror.

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I am not up to speed on everything, but have been reading the articles about the bullying of Gabby this evening.  My question is -- why is anyone letting social media mess with her head, or any of the gymnasts?  If I were in the entourage, I would have cut off the social media and provided positive support for everyone for the past few days.  Maybe this would not have been the game plan going into the Games, but once this heated up, what was the benefit to have anyone seeing or responding to this?  The gymnasts are monitored for so many things -- what they eat, when they sleep -- I know teens never want to be disconnected, but if ever there is a time to be, it is the Olympics and the SATs!  (I know the SATs are phone-free, but that's my point!) 

The old Uzbekistan gymnast that did the vault where she botched the landing and did a forward somersault... how did that get a score of 14.9 or something like that?  Why wasn't it way lower, like a 10?  She did a forward somersault!  Totally do not understand the scoring.

Russian that won the uneven bars has resting bitch face.  Madison's routine looked pretty darn good and she stuck the landing, but somehow she had more deductions. 

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1 hour ago, greyhorse said:

The old Uzbekistan gymnast that did the vault where she botched the landing and did a forward somersault... how did that get a score of 14.9 or something like that?  Why wasn't it way lower, like a 10?  She did a forward somersault!  Totally do not understand the scoring.

Russian that won the uneven bars has resting bitch face.  Madison's routine looked pretty darn good and she stuck the landing, but somehow she had more deductions. 

Well, Oksana Chusovitina (the Uzbek gymnast) performed a vault with a 7.0 level of difficulty, a stratospheric level of difficulty for women's vault.  Only two other vaulters matched or approached that level of difficulty.  The fall itself is only one point in deductions (I believe), and she received additional deductions for everything that came after the fall, as well as for slight imperfections in the vault itself.  The highest possible score on that vault would be a 17.0, so having over two points in deductions and ending up with a 14.933 was actually pretty fair.  Had she not landed on her feet first before falling, she would've scored a 0.0.

Aliya Mustafina, the Russian who won bars, is actually known for being extremely friendly with her fellow gymnasts.  I was rooting for Madison to win the gold (#sweep), but she actually was slightly short in a few of her handstands and caught the bar really close to the bar after a release, causing her to bend her elbows a bit.  Those things are of the utmost importance on bars and incur slight deductions, so even though she likely only lost .3 or so, it was just enough to put her behind Aliya.  Aliya had a higher start value on her vault (it was more difficult by .1), and Madison actually had a slightly higher execution score; it just wasn't quite as clean as it needed to be for gold.

6 minutes ago, mojoween said:

The announcers didn't say anything when Simone's score came up but they showed it said no deductions on her second vault but didn't she hop on the landing?

Simone did get .367 in deductions on her second vault, an extremely small number for any other gymnast but fairly typical for Simone on vault.

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I finally got to actually see some gymnastics without watching it on DVR.  I was getting so annoyed how it was almost always after 11 pm.... I was surprised they actually showed it before then last night after the couple hours of track and field.  I was almost giving up.  I just find it funny how they hype up the gymnastics and then put it on so late that it is in one of the worst viewing times of all of the disciplines.

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Finally got to see a second bit of gymnastics tonight here in Australia and they showed the women's vault final.  Got my first look at Simone Biles.  Wow, if Michael Phelps was born with a body made for swimming, Simone was born with a body made for gymnastics.  What an amazing little powerhouse she is!  I hope I get to see some of the other event finals.

Meanwhile, they also showed the podium finishers in the men's floor exercise and I have a random question.  Last time I watched any gymnastics the men mostly seemed to compete in longish lycra tights and singlets.  When did the old style flappy shorts come back into vogue?  Must say, I'm not really a fan.

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While I'm sorry that Gabby's second Olympic experience was not as positive at the first, I'd like to try and focus on the awesomeness moments thus far:

All of the "first time medals" for countries:  especially the reaction to the two male gymnasts from Brazil who won the silver and bronze in the floor exercise--I particularly enjoyed the one man laying on the ground and the other man curled up in a ball, hiding his face because he didn't want to see the scores--not to mention Great Britain's getting their first gold.  WOO HOO!!

Madison Kocian and Aliya Mustafina's high five after Aliya's gorgeous uneven bar routine and Madison's about to begin hers

I am still thrilled for Aly Raisman for getting the silver in the All Around

Edited by kitmerlot1213
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34 minutes ago, katisha said:

Meanwhile, they also showed the podium finishers in the men's floor exercise and I have a random question.  Last time I watched any gymnastics the men mostly seemed to compete in longish lycra tights and singlets.  When did the old style flappy shorts come back into vogue?  Must say, I'm not really a fan.

The men still wear the stirrup pants for everything but floor and vault where they wear the shorts. 

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Al and Tim noted that the crowd was not cheering Sam's mistakes but instead they were cheering because they knew it meant Brazil got both medals.  Sure.

Well, if anyone deserves to be booed, it's that entitled loser Sam Mikulayk.  Qualifies first on floor, finishes seventh EVEN WHEN Uchimura AND Shirai have multiple mistakes.  Maybe he should move to Canada--at least when male medal favorites falter, they at least get the silver.

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The entire Final Five and Fierce Five have said nothing to support Gabby 

I don't follow what each gymnast says closely but in passing I have seen interviews where Simone and Aly have commented that they are like family with Gabby, etc.  I've never seen any of Gabby's teammates, past or present, ever say anything except nice things about her.  I consider saying someone is like family pretty supportive.

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If I were in the entourage, I would have cut off the social media and provided positive support for everyone for the past few days.

People on social media can be downright hateful, this isn't something that just started. In Gabby's case this happened in the last Olympics with people commenting about her hair.  Other people can't be controlled but I do wish that she could have found a way to ignore hateful trolls and enjoy her Olympic experience that she's worked so hard for.  

Gabby being trolled gets far more news attention than Simone winning a vaulting gold medal, Madison winning a silver medal on bars or Alex winning a bronze on pommel horse yesterday. It may have even gotten more media attention than Simone winning the AA. The media constantly reporting it (I don't mean at all, I mean over and over and over and over) gives the hateful the attention they crave.  Now that Gabby has made statements I hope the media lets it go at least until after the competition.

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The only reason she didn't compete it is because of an arbitrary rule

Its unfortunate for Gabby but I don't consider the rule arbitrary. It was in place in 2012 (can't recall if it was in 2008 as well). Swimming has a similar rule where a country can't send more than 2 to a race.  Agree or disagree with the rule all of the competitors are aware. Rules have changed over the years in all aspects.  Olympic trial scores used to determine who went to the games and that was changed to have them hand picked to try to bring the best team.  There used to be seven gymnasts on an Olympic team, now there's five and in the next will be four.  There are just so few spots and so many wonderful gymnasts and there will always be those that miss out by one spot. 

Good luck to Simone and Laurie in their remaining events. 

Edited by windsprints

its been there since 2004.  It was implemented to eliminate or mitigate the chinese domination.  We are only pissed because it is affecting US athletes.  If is was Russian or Chinese athletes, I am not sure we would be this upset.  Swimming does the same thing, track limits 3 or 4 depending on factors. I don't like the rule but I do understand it.  

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The 2 per country rule for AA started in 2004, before that it was 3. Event finals has always been 2 as far as I can remember. 

ETA: Was it really do to Chinese dominance? They've never really been a huge factor in (women's) AA that I remember.  If anything I would think it would be due to Romanian dominance,  they swept in 2000 (no we're not talking about the asterisk).

Edited by sab85
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I may be reading too much into her mom's words, but it makes me wonder whether there are more than just gymnastics worries going on for Gabby behind the scenes.

A few people have speculated that something is up with her beyond gymnastics. I think what troubles me most about the Gabby situation is that somewhere in this whole mess there seemed to be an implicit message that it was permissible to attack Gabby, that she somehow deserved and had even asked for this sort of judgment by coming back at all, by being selected for the team when some people felt she shouldn't have been, for falling during trials...whatever the reason, people seemed to think heaping hate on Gabby was okay in a way that I don't think it would have been for another gymnast or athlete. The fact that Gabby is still a person, and a rather young person at that, seemed to be totally ignored. I think there are a few elements in that--honestly, one of the only things people love more than a great champion is a champion who has "fallen" and is ripe for criticism. Especially, IMO, when that champion is female and a minority. It's a great excuse for some people to let out their inner sexism/racism by tearing down a young woman who achieved something great and then failed to live up to what other people decided her standards should be without her input. 

We're still constantly hearing about how she doesn't like the other girls or the other girls don't like her and how she was bitter that she didn't get to do the AA. None of that comes from Gabby or anyone close to her. It's just the narrative people have imposed on the situation, and then they find evidence to support it. I think, if you look, you can find plenty of evidence the other way also--Gabby smiling and cheering on her teammates in both days of team competition, hugging and joking with the girls, and the girls flat-out saying Gabby is supportive. I'm sure there was disappointment over not being able to do the AA, but I also think Gabby was likely very prepared for that outcome. Given her performance at Nationals and Trials, she knew she was somewhat lucky to even be on the team. And she knew where her scores stacked up compared to Aly's and that scoring above her would be challenging. When Aly came off that beam and it was fairly clear that she was going to secure that second spot, Gabby was right there to give her a hug. There's enough there to form a much more positive narrative if people want to. 

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Maybe because I don't look at Twitter, and mute Trautmouth and Daggett, but I haven't seen negative stuff about Gabby. All I have seen is responses and defense of Gabby based on the negative stuff. So it seems to me that the pattern is "five negative things are said or posted, 500 defenses and responses follow." So when people talk about Gabby being bullied, all I see is people standing up for her. So at this point, I feel like she has enough defenders and I'd like to hold my hand up and say, "Ready to move on."

As to the two per country rule, I am all for it. Not that I don't want the best to compete, I do. But in the Olympics, these athletes are competing for their country and I despise seeing any country taking all three medals in any sport. I also love an underdog. When the rule cuts you (or the athlete you like) out, it sucks. But when it lets in another athlete from a lesser represented country who goes on to win and burst into tears at the honor, that's what I love about the Olympics. I cry right along with them.

11 hours ago, pivot said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/gymnastics-world-changed-then-turned-000000705.html?utm_content=buffer73096&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I hope every person who has piled on the unnecessary criticism reads this article and thinks about their choices. Seriously, Gabby spent her entire Olympics being torn apart for nitpicks. She got 1 more Olympic Gold but was it worth being America's punching bag to do it?

Edited to add link to ESPN's article with this heartbreaking quote:

http://www.espn.com/olympics/summer/gymnastics/story/_/id/17303885/gabby-douglas-calls-social-media-critics-hurtful-ending-olympic-career

Douglas' mom is right, Gabby was bullied by America on social media.

I know most people probably like to be left alone when they're crying (lord knows I usually do), but there is something extra heartbreaking to me that Gabby Douglas is weeping, and the only notice and comfort she gets from anyone is a kleenex and a pat on the shoulder.  And I feel extra bad for her, because what she should be remembering from her final Olympics is winning another gold medal, but instead she'll most likely remember the cruel accusations that were relentlessly flung at her.  Ugh, I just want to give her a big hug.

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Re Gabby Douglas, I feel bad for her. As if the pressures of being famous at a young age aren't tough enough, she's got haters watching her every move and tearing her apart over the littlest things.  Between the racism that Gabby has already endured, her character, her attitude, her loyalty to her teammates and even her patriotism questioned, it's a wonder she didn't snap sooner. As for Gabby's doing a reality show, while she should have expected the extra scrutiny, that doesn't mean she deserves to be insulted by a bunch of trolls who haven't accomplished nearly as much as she already has, even on their best day. Hopefully, Gabby will get all the love and support she needs. 

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I feel bad for Gabby I don't think she deserves this. I think NBC made her villain during trials which is unfair. They haven't taken top 7/6/5 since 1988. It's unfair to blame that for Gabby if you look at trials standings you have better chance making the Olympic team finishing seventh than fourth. This has all been going on since before Gabby was born. 

Edited by choclatechip45
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3 hours ago, katisha said:

Wow, if Michael Phelps was born with a body made for swimming, Simone was born with a body made for gymnastics.  What an amazing little powerhouse she is! 

One thing I love about watching the Olympics is seeing how different athletic skills favor and enhance wildly different body types and muscle development. If I were an alien flipping channels between long-distance running, gymnastics, swimming, weight-lifting, etc., it would be difficult to believe that all these amazing bodies come from the same species! One thing that always tickles me, in particular, is the arm muscles in male gymnasts: they're just so round and compact, like bubbles or balloons under their skin. I actually call them "peanut arms", for obvious reasons:

 

peanut_arms.jpg

peanut.jpg

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32 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I feel bad for Gabby I don't think she deserves this. I think NBC made her villain during trials which is unfair. They haven't taken top 7/6/5 since 1988. It's unfair to blame that for Gabby if you look at trials standings you have better chance making the Olympic team finishing seventh than fourth. This has all been going on since before Gabby was born. 

If anything I feel like there should be pressure with whoever takes over after Marta to make the decision making more democratic and less about one person (Marta). It's not fair that Gabby is being blamed because of Marta's decisions. If there's one thing that makes me cringe it's how all the girls always talk about "impressing Marta" as if that was the only thing that mattered to them. In that sense I won't miss Marta even though I respect her dedication to the sport. 

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I don't like the 2 per country rule either, but once they dwindled to five people teams, it's almost a necessity because usually only 2 or 3 people are doing the all around in qualifying anyway, you want there to be some internal competition. I get track and swimming because it limits the amount of overall competitors, which is important. I think it was Romania also, because they had three on the podium in 1996, too (silver, two tied for bronze).

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