S02.E07: Ambush

[formerlyfreedom]

Agree to disagree and move on. This has become far too circular.

[catrice2]

Well, as a first time viewer I am encouraged that others are finding an issue with this episode. I started watching this year because people I know were raving about this show, as were critics.  I really have not been enjoying it, but I attributed that to the fact that I don't watch dating reality shows and did not understand some of the "inside" jokes, etc. In fact, I watched the Bachelor a little for the first time this year because I wanted to watch UnReal and my friends said I had to watch that first, and because they also told me the Bachelor was going to be diverse this year. 

I was disappointed with the Bachelor and and I have been disappointed with this show.  I think maybe I needed to watch last season to understand or care about the characters, but I am so tired of them throwing around "we have a black bachelor!!" as if they want a pat on the back.  Manipulating friendships and father daughter relationships, etc. It just all seems so frenetic and pointless, as does the multiple relationships they seem to have with each other. 

Instead of capable, Rachel just seems weak to me and I have not felt sympathy for her at all. I also don't like any of the interns.  In fact, there really are no likable characters on this show. Maybe that is my problem.  Surely the real dating shows don't operate like this? 

It is very disappointing that they have mishandled the issue of having a minority suitor, as well as the attack on a female. I can't decide if this is a drama, comedy or a parody.  

Luckily I fast forwarded and did not realize Rachel had called the police, etc. until I came here.  It seems to me her boyfriend may be working with the undercover girl, but hopefully not. That would just be one more way for them to drum up sympathy for Rachel. 

I honestly don't see the Powerhouse acting everyone is talking about from anyone. 

[basically]

Season 1 is a better representation of the show - if I was jumping straight into season 2 I wouldn't understand what everybody was raving about either so I get you. 

As far as the acting - Shiri Appleby and Constance Zimmer are electric together and have great chemistry. The writing may not be as good but they are still all shades of amazing, in my opinion.

[candall]

7 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Well, as a first time viewer I am encouraged that others are finding an issue with this episode. I started watching this year because people I know were raving about this show, as were critics.  I really have not been enjoying it, but I attributed that to the fact that I don't watch dating reality shows and did not understand some of the "inside" jokes, etc. In fact, I watched the Bachelor a little for the first time this year because I wanted to watch UnReal and my friends said I had to watch that first, and because they also told me the Bachelor was going to be diverse this year. 

I think your friends steered you wrong.  I've never seen one second of any dating show and didn't have any interest in behind-the-scenes of the dating shows.  But I kept hearing raves for UnReal, so when they did a mini-marathon, halfway through Season One, I gave it a shot.  Mmm, fun.  Juicy fun.

The first season focused primarily on the machinations and manipulations of the producers to make their show, Everlasting, dramatic.  The B-plot was woven from all the co-dependencies and interconnections of the production staff.  (Little bit of an overlap there when Rachel boffed the suitor and maybe they will/won't run off together and leave both cast and staff in the rearview mirror.)

I think everyone generally agrees (!!) it was a mistake to switch priorities and make this season about the personal dynamics of the production staff.  I can see why you wouldn't give a flip about anyone on the show.  Season One viewers couldn't help but get invested in the ongoing characters (production staff) because we got caught up in their personal jazz while watching them engineer fake situations that were initially funny but grew increasingly mean and ultimately fatal.

[seacliffsal]

I am really' livid at the audacity of the producers and writers of this show.

I was actually looking forward to this episode as I really liked Adam last season and was looking forward to his return...little did I know.

During the first half of the episode I was already questioning why I was watching this season as I have generally been disappointed this season while I really enjoyed last season.  In the first part of this episode I really was wondering why everyone behind the scenes seemed so enamored of Rachel.  Every man falls in love with her and excuses her behavior.  I was like 'bravo Adam for telling her off before leaving' and then everything fell apart.

First of all, Rachel and Coleman used not only Darius and Romeo, they also used the police for their 'ohh let's prank them and report the car stolen' escapade.  Tee heeing to each other with smug 'aren't we clever' comments and looks.  There was intent to harm when they called the police; whether arrested, beaten up, etc. there was deliberate intent to harm or 'teach a lesson' to Darius.  Kind of 'we'll teach him to ruin our show'.  What the police knew was that someone reported this car stolen.  When Darius could not produce registration, license, etc., it only reinforced the lie that Rachel and Coleman set up.  When watching it go down, Rachel at least had the instinct that it was wrong, but then went along with it when Coleman pointed out what 'wonderful' footage they were getting.  Then, when she panicked, she started yelling and running straight at the police.  Not only was this show insensitive to the potential plight of black men, they were also insensitive to the potential plight of police being ambushed.  And then to try to create sympathy for Rachel.  Yes, it was unreal.  I watch t.v. shows for entertainment.  I watch the news and political analysis shows for news and to try to make sense of the violence within our nation and the world.  

Watching fictional characters purposefully place innocent lives in danger in order to create a storyline is not entertainment in my opinion.  I am mad at myself for watching this episode at all.

[Fable]

My problem this season is that I don’t like or care about any of the characters, especially the main cast, but honestly, most of the side characters either.  I don’t mind unlikeable characters if they are interesting and believable, but most these characters have no depth, and the storylines are cartoonish.  If a show wants to examine social issues, fine, but it needs to be earned, and I didn’t feel it was.  I don’t think this episode was about exploring social issues as much as it was to give us another big shocker and to show us Rachel having another crisis of conscience.  Give me a break!  

[TVHappy9463]

I feel like the show went too far too soon. They could have used the base formula for a few more seasons before it started over doing it in every episode.  It seems like the show is always at level 9.  I miss season 1, lets hope they get back to basics next season. 

[catrice2]

Thanks guys. I drove everyone crazy on the Bachelor thread asking "stupid" questions about how the show works.  I may have to miss this one for the rest of the year. Every show I have liked in the last 3 years has been a disappointment after the first year or two.....Sleepy Hollow, Arrow, The Flash, Suits, How to Get Away with Murder and now it sounds like this one was better the first year and fell of in the second. The only thing I have gathered about the 1st season is that Rachel was sleeping with the suitor? and possibly the guy behind the scenes?  She also is bi polar or has anxiety issues and Quinn and Chet were involved.  In fact, since I am guilty of fast forwarding, did they fire him after he attacked her, or does he still work there? 

[Silly Angel]

The show behind the the show (behind the "show") is as morally repellent and cynical as the show it depicts. Are we supposed to feel morally superior to the dum dums being manipulated or are real people manipulating us because they think we're the dum dums? I'm out.

[Court]

My DVR wouldnt play this episode and readiing this thread just confirms why I deleted it.

I've been debating deleting it permanently since the season started. Bye bye!

[CaliCheeseSucks]

If Noxon can't come back, Lifetime should pull a Vinyl and cancel this mess in spite of the (premature) renewal. It's nothing other than Sarah Gertrude Stein's wish-fulfillment soap opera - Rachel (SGS) is a damsel in distress center of the universe with Adam, Jeremy, Coleman (at differing times) all falling hard for her like that; everything revolves around her and whatever is going on with Everlasting is secondary to all this uninteresting, over the top, histrionic personal crap. Seriously - aside from Yael, Ruby and Confederate Gal, who were/are the contestants this year? I barely remembered the one with the dead guy's ashes last night (they seemed to have purged a ton of the ladies without much fanfare) and seriously, didn't Darius fire Romeo very dramatically a few episodes back? He is, truly, a mere prop with no necessary value to SGS other than to propel Rachel's latest meltdown. Way to turn your best property into a complete dumpster fire. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by CaliCheeseSucks
Clarification

[niklj]

As someone who shipped Adam and Rachel super hard last season, that was a letdown. It was like they shoehorned in his character to appease the fans; it wasn't organic at all and Freddy Stroma seemed like he was already kind of checked out. I'm glad others still saw chemistry between the two but it felt pretty flat to me, no matter how many near-kisses they tried to stick in there. 

I don't think Adam should be all high and mighty either--he barely apologized for dropping Rachel so cruelly after learning that she had a mental breakdown so of course, he leaves her in the dump that caused her mental breakdown. Then he just expects her to take him back because he supposedly "changed" even though the only real evidence we have of it is a new tan and a scruffier look. 

BOOOOO. Marti Noxon, why hast thou forsaken us?!?!

[earlbny]

I posted the following link in the news thread but figured I would post it here for anyone that did not see it.

Here's a link to an interview with the writer of this episode.

http://www.avclub.com/article/unreal-writer-ariana-jackson-breaks-down-last-nigh-239769

Edited July 20, 2016 by earlbny

[Eolivet]

I think others have covered the real life WTFery of this episode much better than I have, so if I may speak to story for a minute...

Why on god's green earth did they bring Adam back for this episode?!

No, I get why they brought him back (as someone who didn't think he was Rachel's true love, I still understand why they did it). But why this episode? Why, if you're going to attempt (emphasis on attempt) a serious hour do you bring back last year's suitor in a speedo talking in the hot tub with the contestants?

I seriously don't get why Adam had to be there. To push Rachel over the edge? Because Rachel wasn't getting there fast enough herself? Honestly, the entire first half-hour played like some bizarre fanfiction (a prior suitor returning and having a conversation with current contestants -- has that ever happened on a dating reality show ever, because I put that right up there with "two people, one hotel room left" and "this totally out of nowhere formal party has come up"). I could seriously see the two artfully placed song lyrics right above the nonsensical all lower-case story title when I watched those scenes.

And the tonal contrast of Rachel/Adam twu wuv 5eva with...oh, I don't know...seriously disturbing real life issues in the second half was such a bizarre tonal shift that I practically got whiplash. I don't understand why we as an audience were supposed to be rooting for Rachel to run off with Adam and give up her career. That made no sense to me last year and it makes no sense to me now.

I honestly don't see the resolution for Rachel here, either. So, she resolves her issues and...goes back to the job that triggered them in the first place? Quits the job that triggered them in the first place (and then what place does she have on the show)? I feel like Rachel's mental health and her job as an outstanding producer cannot coexist, and right now, the show is telling me to root for one over the other. But as someone who enjoys the behind-the-scenes of Everlasting that this show is supposed to be about, I'm pretty sure I'm rooting for the wrong one.

[earlbny]

Some fans fell for Rachel and Adam hook line and sinker. They were begging SGS to bring back Adam. I even saw a petition. I think SGS was not planning on bringing him back but caved and threw the fans a bone. I don't think he worked in this episode. Other episodes maybe but not this one. He was kind of useless. Where was Chet this week?

Edited July 20, 2016 by earlbny

[lucindabelle]

 I still enjoy the show I think it is paced quickly and sucks me in, but on reflection it really isn't as fun as last season. I think the decision to place the emphasis on the producers was a bad one and frankly when I think about it I just don't really believe these things would happen. I'm pretty sure that if there was a shooting on the set of reality show (or during shooting in this case) it would be big news and not good news. People say all publicity is good publicity but that really isn't true. Because the producers are so beyond... The false mother thing! The writers can't think of anything to. Do but make them worse and worse and worse. There's no real tension as a result. Yes Rachel is the main character so I don't care if focus is on her (though certainly can see why it offends some) but this incarnation of Rachel is already so self involved and stupid (going over bosses' heads) that I'm not as involved.

 

that said it's not as if there's a lot else im watching now so I'll keep on. But it was much better last year.

[topanga]

10 hours ago, earlbny said:

I posted the following link in the news thread but figured I would post it here for anyone that did not see it.

Here's a link to an interview with the writer of this episode.

http://www.avclub.com/article/unreal-writer-ariana-jackson-breaks-down-last-nigh-239769

Thanks for the link, earlbny. I was planning on heading over to the media thread, but you've saved me a trip. 

The article gave me a lot of insight into the construction of this episode. Like other posters, I didn't like the way UnReal handled the issue of police brutality and its aftermath. It's sounds like that even though Ariana Jackson is the official writer of the episode, many voices and perspectives were included in the final product. Here are some quotes from the article: 

 

There were criticisms in some recaps I read about turning the aftermath onto Rachel’s turmoil, rather than going back to see Darius and Romeo. What is your response to that?

Well, it’s frustrating for myself and Sarah and some of the other writers in the room. There was a lot of fight and a lot of back and forth. There were times that we had scenes and moments where we go back with Romeo and Darius and they didn’t end up making it in the final episode for whatever reason. That is very frustrating to me. But we follow these characters for another three episodes. We have fallout to tell with them in the upcoming episodes and as we lead into the finale. So, Romeo and Darius’ stories are far from over.

Did you always want to have Jay’s speech in the episode, and what was it like for you writing that?

...Part of Jay’s speech was something we talked about a lot in the room, but also was something I felt very strongly personally in writing it. I think it was important in the episode, and I’m glad that it made it in. I don’t think it necessarily solves all problems. For people who maybe take issue with the episode—and, again, I think it’s totally fair and right for people if they have issues with the episode—I don’t think that this one speech makes up for everything. I hope people understand there were a lot of different viewpoints at play in the episode, and, again, that we tried to look at it and tackle it from all angles.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, earlbny said:

Where was Chet this week?

I think we don't see Craig Bierko every week for budget reasons. He's likely guaranteed a certain number of episodes.

[Audpaud]

The show definitely isn't as well done as it was in its first Season.  It just feels too rushed, too fast paced and kinda all over the map-ish.  BUT, and there's always a but, lol...I have no problem with the content of the last episode.  It really is all about the ratings/$$, and that corporate machine really does exploit people... along with the fact that racial profiling really does exist with dire consequences.  Notice they didn't shoot Rachel or Coleman?

This episode depicts events that are no more-no less morally bankrupt than the switching out the meds/suicide last Season.  My only complaint is that due to the pace, this show is starting to feel like the tongue in cheek Devious Maids series.

[earlbny]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Thanks for the link, earlbny. I was planning on heading over to the media thread, but you've saved me a trip. 

The article gave me a lot of insight into the construction of this episode. Like other posters, I didn't like the way UnReal handled the issue of police brutality and its aftermath. It's sounds like that even though Ariana Jackson is the official writer of the episode, many voices and perspectives were included in the final product. Here are some quotes from the article: 

 

There were criticisms in some recaps I read about turning the aftermath onto Rachel’s turmoil, rather than going back to see Darius and Romeo. What is your response to that?

Well, it’s frustrating for myself and Sarah and some of the other writers in the room. There was a lot of fight and a lot of back and forth. There were times that we had scenes and moments where we go back with Romeo and Darius and they didn’t end up making it in the final episode for whatever reason. That is very frustrating to me. But we follow these characters for another three episodes. We have fallout to tell with them in the upcoming episodes and as we lead into the finale. So, Romeo and Darius’ stories are far from over.

Did you always want to have Jay’s speech in the episode, and what was it like for you writing that?

...Part of Jay’s speech was something we talked about a lot in the room, but also was something I felt very strongly personally in writing it. I think it was important in the episode, and I’m glad that it made it in. I don’t think it necessarily solves all problems. For people who maybe take issue with the episode—and, again, I think it’s totally fair and right for people if they have issues with the episode—I don’t think that this one speech makes up for everything. I hope people understand there were a lot of different viewpoints at play in the episode, and, again, that we tried to look at it and tackle it from all angles.

You're welcome. I got the impression that she did not want to do this episode. She seems like she was just giving the company line. She was afraid. I don't blame her. It's a big sensitive issue. How do they not have room for a scene with Darius and Romeo? Yet they had time to fit In a scene with Quinn and Booth making out and talking about kids.

Here's another ink with SGS and the writer talking about the episode.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/19/unreal-season-2-shooting-episode

 

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I think we don't see Craig Bierko every week for budget reasons. He's likely guaranteed a certain number of episodes.

Gotcha. That makes sense. For a second I thought he left with Jeremy.

Edited July 20, 2016 by earlbny

[xaxat]

From the AVClub interview,

Quote

This was something that was already in the mind of Sarah [Gertrude Shapiro] and the upper levels when we came into talk about season two. This was a storyline that had already been proposed.

So the casting of Darius/Romeo was conceived with the eventual payoff of a black man getting shot.

That's fucked up.

Edited July 20, 2016 by xaxat

[Pepper Mostly]

16 hours ago, Fable said:

My problem this season is that I don’t like or care about any of the characters, especially the main cast, but honestly, most of the side characters either.  I don’t mind unlikeable characters if they are interesting and believable, but most these characters have no depth, and the storylines are cartoonish.  If a show wants to examine social issues, fine, but it needs to be earned, and I didn’t feel it was.  I don’t think this episode was about exploring social issues as much as it was to give us another big shocker and to show us Rachel having another crisis of conscience.  Give me a break!  

Agreed on all points. I loved Chet last season--loved to hate him, anyway. He was such a sleazeball, such a slob, but every now and then you caught a flash of the young handsome go getter he had once been. The detail with his dog was so great. The character was well written and beautifully acted. And utterly believable. Now he's some MRA douchenozzle with moments of humanity but a bad fan fiction one. What happened to the writing on the show? Last season we had those beautiful moments with Faith, Rachel's razor sharp wit, Adam's bratty charm, Anna's coolly observant yet passionate persona, Madison's interesting juxtaposition of sheer terror and ambition. Now all the regulars are broadly drawn bundles of character traits with nothing linking them together and no motivation, and everything is turned up to 11. Where is the subtlety? Where is the character development? Darius, I still know nothing about him. He has a back injury, he supports a couple of nephews,  that's his character. Its such lazy writing. And I still can't figure out how Rachel decided getting her suitor arrested was going to burnish his image. No matter what happened it was a lose/lose. Rachel is obsessed with "making history". But how does she strike a blow against racism by using Darius in this way? She is part of the problem! And if this horrible clumsy writing is going to make this the moral of the story, newsflash writers. We know! Jesus.

14 hours ago, niklj said:

As someone who shipped Adam and Rachel super hard last season, that was a letdown. It was like they shoehorned in his character to appease the fans; it wasn't organic at all and Freddy Stroma seemed like he was already kind of checked out. I'm glad others still saw chemistry between the two but it felt pretty flat to me, no matter how many near-kisses they tried to stick in there. 

I don't think Adam should be all high and mighty either--he barely apologized for dropping Rachel so cruelly after learning that she had a mental breakdown so of course, he leaves her in the dump that caused her mental breakdown. Then he just expects her to take him back because he supposedly "changed" even though the only real evidence we have of it is a new tan and a scruffier look. 

BOOOOO. Marti Noxon, why hast thou forsaken us?!?!

And I agree with this too. It was all so rushed. And it was a tired old rehash of Jeremy's "I called, Rach" from last season. I think Adam actually said those very words.

[Lurky McLurkerson]

17 hours ago, Fable said:

My problem this season is that I don’t like or care about any of the characters, especially the main cast, but honestly, most of the side characters either.  I don’t mind unlikeable characters if they are interesting and believable, but most these characters have no depth, and the storylines are cartoonish.  If a show wants to examine social issues, fine, but it needs to be earned, and I didn’t feel it was.  I don’t think this episode was about exploring social issues as much as it was to give us another big shocker and to show us Rachel having another crisis of conscience.  Give me a break!  

Thank you, this puts into words perfectly how I feel about this season so far -- with this episode being the cherry on top of a shit sundae.  I'm disappointed.  I really enjoyed last season, and this one has been a shitshow of boredom, scattershot of plot points that never come together, and now this craptacular treatment of a life-and-death problem.  I don't even have words for how disgusting I found this episode, and not in a hard-to-watch-but-necessary kind of way, in a way-to-parade-out-your-sophomoric-take-and-insulting-something-serious kind of way.

If Sarah Gertrude Shapiro truly does write Rachel as a surrogate for herself and is looking for sympathy and validation via people's reaction to Rachel, I feel very sorry for her.  Rachel is selfish, broken, destructive, manipulative, and, yet, somehow also boring and off-putting.  I tend to enjoy complex characters with a dark leaning, and Rachel should be right up my alley... but she's not.  She's a Frankenstein of tropes trying to be edgy.  She's not edgy, she's just pathetic and dull.

(Also, any Buffy fans in the thread?  How many people thought they'd one day advocate/cheer for the return of Marti Noxon?  If last season is the result of her involvement, I say bring her back.)

[tennisgurl]

Quote

 How many people thought they'd one day advocate/cheer for the return of Marti Noxon

I know right? Marti Noxon created some of my least favorite Buffy moments, now here? She was apparently the only sane woman driving this crazy train, and without her, we all spiraled off the rails, and into a ditch. 

This show has just gotten to a point where it flips between insulting and boring. And it sucks because, this season had so much potential to actually say something about race or gender or mental illness, and instead its just wasted opportunity after wasted opportunity. Honestly, there is just so much plot, without the characters to back it up. We have the story with Darius and the contestants, we have Rachel and her issues and her boring boyfriend, Quinn and her issues, and her boring boyfriend, and Chet and his issues and his boring kid issues. Basically....its boring. 

I mean, seriously. What do we know about any of these characters? The only contestants who left any impression are the southern woman and Ruby, and they hardly had more than two scenes together, and poor Ruby was built up as a big character, than ignored and dropped like a sack of potatoes. Darius is a blank slate, and so is his cousin, and Rachel and Quinn are just boring characters of themselves. Who do I root for in all this? I mean, last season the main characters were awful too, but this season has just gotten ridiculous. They have basically killed two people now in two seasons (if Romeo does die), and their manipulations (especially with the fake mom of that early constant) are just getting stupid. And Rachel just pisses me off. I do not care about her crisis of conscious, or her mental health issues. In fact, her mental health problems are starting to get offensive. Do the show runners think that her being bi polar makes her behavior ok? Because...it does not. At all. 

And I just refuse to get into the shooting. Yeah, show. Your very topical and edgy. Now do you have anything to actually SAY about these social issues? Anything at all? Didn't think so. 

Last season was so excellent, and this season is just a massive disappointment. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by tennisgurl

[CaliCheeseSucks]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Last season was so excellent, and this season is just a massive disappointment. 

I have a feeling the Peabody Committee will, in the future, wait for a show's second season before bestowing the award. The show's an utter embarrassment now.

[dbell1]

I'm going with an unpopular opinion here. The show is about Rachel in all her fucked up glory. We see her go off the rails, we see her struggle with real family, work family, relationships, and drugs/alcohol. And by focusing on what happens to our main character, we lose all the ancillary plots. And I think that's on purpose. It all goes back to her because she's the sun about to go supernova and take out the planets in her orbit. 

There was no way this episode could have been shelved for a few weeks since I'm betting (unspoiled) that the rest of the season will be all about the fallout. Our suitor and his women didn't matter last season, they're background characters there to drive the Rachel story forward. It's like watching The Good Wife and being annoyed that we're not seeing what's up with the husband or coworkers when they're not hanging with The Good Wife. And speaking of that show, I'm glad Rachel isn't a Mary Sue. She's vile, manipulative, and over her head. 

And final comment, Coleman's snapping at Rachel that her relationship baggage was affecting them, fine with the Adam part, but not fine with the Jeremy incident. She didn't ask to be beaten. This episode showed all of her support structure falling apart and the consequences.

[Gurkel]

10 minutes ago, dbell1 said:

I'm going with an unpopular opinion here. The show is about Rachel in all her fucked up glory. We see her go off the rails, we see her struggle with real family, work family, relationships, and drugs/alcohol. And by focusing on what happens to our main character, we lose all the ancillary plots. And I think that's on purpose. It all goes back to her because she's the sun about to go supernova and take out the planets in her orbit. 

There was no way this episode could have been shelved for a few weeks since I'm betting (unspoiled) that the rest of the season will be all about the fallout. Our suitor and his women didn't matter last season, they're background characters there to drive the Rachel story forward. It's like watching The Good Wife and being annoyed that we're not seeing what's up with the husband or coworkers when they're not hanging with The Good Wife. And speaking of that show, I'm glad Rachel isn't a Mary Sue. She's vile, manipulative, and over her head. 

And final comment, Coleman's snapping at Rachel that her relationship baggage was affecting them, fine with the Adam part, but not fine with the Jeremy incident. She didn't ask to be beaten. This episode showed all of her support structure falling apart and the consequences.

I agree that the show is about Rachel, but the suitor being arrested and hospitalized, and his unarmed cousin being shot and possibly killed are not ancillary plots. Last season when Mary died, the show obviously couldn't focus on her as a character anymore, and it addressed how her suicide affected Rachel, Quinn, Chet, and the other ladies. 

But after this incident, Darius -- the suitor-- and his cousin are still alive, but we don't hear about them at all. What if Rachel tried to go to the hospital and was turned away by  police?   someone?   

Shapiro said she knew they were going to do this episode back when she thought about having a black suitor for Season 2. So why was Ruby sent home? How could the writers not have wanted Ruby to be part of an important discussion about race? Or is there even going to be a discussion about race? Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Quote

It's like watching The Good Wife and being annoyed that we're not seeing what's up with the husband or coworkers when they're not hanging with The Good Wife. And speaking of that show, I'm glad Rachel isn't a Mary Sue. She's vile, manipulative, and over her head. 

Not to get too deep into spoiler territory - I believe everyone should have the chance to watch things spoiler free, but there is a woman of colour on The Good Wife who was a mere 'coworker' of Alicia's, and whenever anything happened to that character, some or many fans, including myself, cared an extreme amount.  Also, depending on the fan, the show, the actors, the backgrounds of members of the fandom, and so many other factors, some people watch shows mostly or even SOLELY for the non-main characters.  Especially when viewers are of minority groups.  If we only cared about main characters of shows, we'd have like 2 shows to watch.

I never felt that Alicia was a Mary Sue either, if I understand the term correctly.  To me Alicia is a deeply flawed character.

Nice point about Ruby, Gurkel.  It never made sense to me that they got rid of such a good character that the show actually invested in, and now with this new 'plot' it makes even less sense.

CaliCheeseSucks I feel similarly - to your post - don't know about the cheese. ;)

Edited July 20, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Gurkel]

7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Not to get too deep into spoiler territory - I believe everyone should watch  things spoiler free, but there is a woman of colour on that show who was a mere 'coworker' of Alicia, and whenever anything happened to that character, the fans, including myself, cared an extreme amount.  

I never felt that Alicia was a Mary Sue either, if I understand the term correctly.  That's a deeply flawed character.

And to further your analogy, it's not like people are wondering what happened to Romeo after Darius fired him or wondering what happens to Darius after he goes to bed at night. One of these characters was shot and might not live, and the other was injured so badly he had to be hospitalized. The fact that we learned nothing more about their fates in the remainder of the episode shows that the police incident itself was important to the show. Not the outcome of that police incident. 

--Tell us that Romeo is in surgery. Tell us that Darius is in the ER. Tell us something. Does Rachel even care what happened to them? It seems not. 

And I like that Rachel is a complicated character. I just think the writing for her character arc was stronger in Season 1.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Gurkel

[Marsupial]

If the show is going to be All About Rachel, then there is no reason for me to continue watchingit. I haven't liked her since the first episode of the first season but at least there were other interesting characters and subplots around to hold the interest and keep the story moving. There's not enough about Rachel that would make me want to spend five minutes invested in anything to do with her.

Quote

Rachel is a complicated character

I don't think so. People like Rachel--manipulative, narcissistic schemers with superiority complexes who get off on using other people--are, sadly, common and not all that "deep" or interesting despite their pretensions to be so. I've met them in various walks of life. As I posted in another thread, my brother was married to someone almost exactly like Rachel. You wouldn't want to spend five minutes watching my ex-SIL, I can assure you, and I feel the same way about Rachel. She's a dime a dozen and she's also actively malicious and evil.

As an example: A lot of people intensely disliked Don Draper on "Mad Men." I didn't hate  Don but I could certainly see why other people detested him. ( Although to his credit Don never actually tried to get someone maimed or killed for his and his boyfriend's jollies). They were able to continue watching the show because of the plots involving the other characters (e.g. like many viewers, I was a huge Pete fan; other people loved Peggy, etc), the writing, the nostalgia, and the way the show treated certain social issues. There was more depth there. It wasn't just "the daily trauma of our tortured hero Don." I mean, there was a lot of that, but there were other things you could enjoy in the show.

What does Everlasting, this season, have to offer? Even the side plots and secondary characters have to revolve around Our Tortured Hero Rachel. Everything is reduced to how they view, treat and react to Rachel, which is of course an extremely narcissistic worldview and confirms the theory some have suggested, that Rachel is a stand-in for the supremely narcisstic SGS. And I have zero interest in either one.

As to this episode, everyone has posted how I felt about it much better than I could, but I have one overall feeling: sick. I think the way the whole thing was handled was sick. Bad taste is the least of it.

Also, really, all these handsome, successful men (Adam, Coleman) are falling all over themselves with puppy love for Rachel? Really, show? Men who, by the way, work in an industry filled with beautiful women, or in Adam's case, is incredibly handsome, famous and wealthy. They're dying of love for this vicious, evil, and poorly groomed nutjob? Is this another SGS fantasy or something? I don't buy it for a minute.

[Pepper Mostly]

2 minutes ago, Marsupial said:

really, all these handsome, successful men (Adam, Coleman) are falling all over themselves with puppy love for Rachel? Really, show? Men who, by the way, work in an industry filled with beautiful women, or in Adam's case, is incredibly handsome, famous and wealthy. They're dying of love for this vicious, evil, and poorly groomed nutjob? Is this another SGS fantasy or something? I don't buy it for a minute.

Yes, this, 100%. There has been nothing shown to us that gives a hint of credibility to the notion that Rachel has such mad charms that men simply cannot resist her. Even Don Draper, to speak to @Marsupial's comparison, was a mirror, he gave people what they wanted and he could turn on the charm. He was sexy and a little dangerous. He was smart, he read books, he could surprise you. Rachel is a grubby mess who can't stop producing to eat or sleep. She's capricious (not in a charming, whimsical, adorable pixie way, though!), moody, needy and has a ton of baggage. So I'm left to think the writers are a bunch of wanna be romance novelists (not very good ones) who write those stories that have lovely hard-to-get heroines that every hunky guy in town wants to put a ring on, for no discernible reason. Rachel is no heroine. I loved her last season, even for all her fucked-up-ed-ness. I rooted for her and hoped she would find the courage to try to change her life. Now I want to sweep her out with the rest of the trash. She's not conflicted any more. She's just bought what Quinn's selling, but she doesn't have Quinn's iron will or absolute conviction. 

[Court]

I do wish they had developed the contestants (and the suitor) more like they did season 1.

Really, Ruby is the only one we got to know.

[kieyra]

I have to say, I am at a loss as to why people find Adam swoon-worthy. Especially with the new "haircut". He looked like such a spray-tanned doofus. Sorry. 

As for the larger issues. I've been watching the show for maybe a month now. I checked it out due to raves from critics about season 1. In the very beginning, it actually gave me a Sorkin vibe with the behind-the-scenes stuff.

Now it's just like someone asked them to pull the lever all the way over to Shondaland/Empire levels of "batshit". 

There's a reason I don't watch those shows. 

Edited July 21, 2016 by kieyra

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I'm going with an unpopular opinion here. The show is about Rachel in all her fucked up glory. We see her go off the rails, we see her struggle with real family, work family, relationships, and drugs/alcohol. And by focusing on what happens to our main character, we lose all the ancillary plots. And I think that's on purpose. It all goes back to her because she's the sun about to go supernova and take out the planets in her orbit.

Yes, this is true.  The show is told from Rachel's, and to some extent, Quinn's POV.  By itself, that's not a bad thing.  A show told from the POV of two female anti-heroes is always welcome for me. 

But the fact that this show is so set in its POV is the reason why they shouldn't have told this particular story.  I think the last thing TV needs is another story about a black person's tragedy told from the white person's point of view.

[Stoyz]

I think Rachel's more insane than ANY person associated with Everlasting. Quinn SEEMS crazy but she's just a straight up, cold-hearted bitch who wants to control every person and situation in her orbit. Love her! Lol. ...Anyway...Thanks for your well thought out recaps, Tara. They're always a pleasure to read. (Btw: One small thing- Freddie Gray was not shot.)

[Jade Foxx]

AND THEN, AND THEN after the police shooting scene, there was a behind the scene look with SGS (whatever her initials are) - and she starts to prattle on about "notice how we rolled the camera angle to reflect RACHEL'S life being "turned upside down"

BITCH WUT?

While we get a quick shot of still handcuffed Romeo life's blood seeping out of him?

Peace out, y'all. 

41 minutes ago, Stoyz said:

I think Rachel's more insane than ANY person associated with Everlasting. Quinn SEEMS crazy but she's just a straight up, cold-hearted bitch who wants to control every person and situation in her orbit. Love her! Lol. ...Anyway...Thanks for your well thought out recaps, Tara. They're always a pleasure to read. (Btw: One small thing- Freddie Gray was not shot.)

Correct. Unarmed Freddie Gray was murdered in a more unique, creative fashion. ?

[mrsbagnet]

Chet was there briefly. He told Jay to turn on the fan during the ashes scene. 

The only good moments in this episode were Rachel telling Quinn to get over her, and Jay telling off Rachel.

Quote

AND THEN, AND THEN after the police shooting scene, there was a behind the scene look with SGS (whatever her initials are) - and she starts to prattle on about "notice how we rolled the camera angle to reflect RACHEL'S life being "turned upside down"

BITCH WUT?

While we get a quick shot of still handcuffed Romeo life's blood seeping out of him?

Yes, this! The change in tone was jarring and in poor taste. You go from an accidental shooting to an upbeat, self-congratulatory clip about clever camera work? Tacky. She could have at least given it a sober tone.

I agree with what seacliffsal said about the treatment of the police in the shooting scene. Rachel reported a fake crime, taking the officers away from real responsibilities; she manipulated the officers, Darius, Romeo, and the contestants into a situation ripe for misunderstanding and danger; and then she runs screaming at someone who's holding a gun. When that officer woke up that morning, he didn't go out looking for someone to shoot. I doubt he feels good about what happened, even if he's not punished for it. Lives and careers for all involved parties were risked in the name of good footage. This entire plotline has made Rachel unredeemable in my eyes.

The only resolution I'd like to see is Romeo, Darius, the city and the two officers suing the shit out of the network and maybe even Rachel and Coleman themselves.

I'm glad to see that the writers fought about whether or not to show the aftermath of the shooting. Ultimately, they made the wrong decision.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

But after this incident, Darius -- the suitor-- and his cousin are still alive, but we don't hear about them at all. What if Rachel tried to go to the hospital and was turned away by  police?   someone?

 

Quote

 

--Tell us that Romeo is in surgery. Tell us that Darius is in the ER. Tell us something. Does Rachel even care what happened to them? It seems not. 

 

Why are we assuming that we won't be shown these things though? It is a TV drama series. It is not news that TV dramas leave episodes open-ended.

[dubbel zout]

I think we are assuming we will be shown these things, but there was absolutely no mention of Darius or Romeo at the hospital. We could have been told that much and still had suspense about their conditions.

[mrsbagnet]

We know that they will show these things, but the shooting happened with 15 minutes still left in the episode. They could have at least shown a brief shot of Darius and Romeo at the hospital. To not do so is poor storytelling. If the shooting had happened at the very end of the episode, it would have made sense to have no follow-up because that would have been a good cliff-hanger.

[earlbny]

SGS had planned this idea before they even started writing this season. The writer of this episode who's names escaping me did not feel comfortable writing this episode. SGS assigned this episode to her because she was black. She's actually half black not that it matters. I bet these long discussions they had involved Sarah saying where doing this episode whether you like it or not. I am in charge and whatever I say goes. They had written some scenes with Darius and Romeo after they got shot but did not have time to include them in the episode. Yet the next scene after they get shot is Quinn and Booth doing the romance thing. "we would have liked to include something but it just wasn’t possible, production-wise."

Edited July 21, 2016 by earlbny

[ketose]

I've complained about this show already this season. I keep forgetting it's on. I didn't watch Ambush until yesterday. I'm pretty well done with this. This makes the third series this year I've given up on. Either I'm getting old or TV is sucking. Probably both.

[BingeyKohan]

Late watching thus late commenting so don't want to be repetitive. I wonder if the concerns about staying with Rachel after the shooting could have been mitigated (if just a tiny, tiny bit) if they had intercut Rachel's meltdown in her truck with scenes of Romeo being rushed into the ER against the same music track. At least it would have acknowledged his continuing existence. I also think it gets tricky saying empirically what is or isn't whose story to tell; more aptly it wasn't Rachel's story to manufacture. Most of my thoughts are on SGS's postmortem interview responses so I will take that to media thread and Yael spec to the spoiler thread. I do think it's a sad commentary on the season's execution that what could been a powerful race arc feels like an afterthought and all that holds my attention is whatever bomb Hot Rachel will detonate (the soapiest aspect beyond Rachel's romance-free triangle). I relish the thought of a Quinn/Rachel's mom showdown.

[nara]

I'm a little astonished that so many people think we're supposed to feel sympathy for Rachel,. I thought the whole point of the series is that she is a horrible person, who would do anything to further her show. Even worse, she deludes herself that he's the good one helping people. Plus, she makes everything about her.

In the Alabama episode, she deliberately sent Darius into a hostile situation. It was no thanks to her that it didn't turn out to be terrible. Then, she took advantage of Beth Ann and was so turned on by the prospect that she jumped Coleman in public.  In this episode, she refered to "her Africa" like it belonged to her, and then claimed that she was the one doing good by  "helping" the 16 million viewers of her show. 

I think the point of this episode was that she not only did the worst thing EVER by setting up Darius and then creating the commotion that startled the officer and got Romeo shot, she then fled the scene by first hiding out in her truck and then calling her mommy to get her, rather than face the accusing eyes of those around her. Even her rant to Adam was self-pitying when she should have been focused on Romeo and Darius.

Rachel and Coleman both fancy themselves as dogooders who are helping Black people ("We have the first Black suitor--that's groundbreaking" and the idea that "we are going to show cops harassing poor Darius"), but they don't have enough real understanding about the reality of Black people's lives, so they're actually doing more harm than good.

A few other thoughts:

-Can Rachel actually end up in jail for her role in this matter? 

-I wish that policewoman Jamison had been in the car with them, so we could have gotten her reaction.  I think that was a missed opportunity. She could have understood the suspicion of the officers as well as the frustration and fear of Darius and Romeo.  Why have a policewoman character and keep her out of this scene?

- what would have happened if Darius went on the date with Tiffany? He would still have been driving (probably fast) without his license. I wonder if that would have been a better way to get to the story? They call the cops on him even though he didn't do anything, just to create drama. The way it worked out, the show can pass blame to him for taking the car without permission.

- 2nd best line (after Jay's monologue)-- Yael: "this is a reality show, how could this happen?" Well the reality is that this does happen. Her shock seemed genuine, even though she's clearly writing an expose, but shows how out of touch she is too.

- I hope we get Ruby and father back next episode and Darius becomes involved in Black Lives Matter.

- Can Quinn still have 4 or 5 children or is that romance over? My assumption was that Booth did not mean children by adoption.

- Jay's speech was like me jumping into the television, except that I would have slapped her too.

Btw, Chet was there behind Jay in the ash blowing scene.

[jhlipton]

3 minutes ago, nara said:

I wish that policewoman Jamison had been in the car with them, so we could have gotten her reaction.  I think that was a missed opportunity. She could have understood the suspicion of the officers as well as the frustration and fear of Darius and Romeo.  Why have a policewoman character and keep her out of this scene?

A thousand times YES.  Why have a black policewoman and not use her?

In y view nothing that either cop did was based on race.  Darius (who obviously never got "the talk") was being snitty and never said anything about his back until he was being bent over.  Then first Rachel, then Romeo rushed at the officer.  He had no time to think, only time to react.  The fact that he only fired once (as opposed to the 20 times we've seen in Real Life) showed great constraint on his part.  If they really wanted to make this a #BLM episode, Darius and/or Romeo should have been shot for not doing anything wrong.

[Jade Foxx]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

A thousand times YES.  Why have a black policewoman and not use her?

*In y view nothing that either cop did was based on race.  Darius (who obviously never got "the talk") was being snitty and never said anything about his back until he was being bent over.  Then first Rachel, then Romeo rushed at the officer.  He had no time to think, only time to react.  The fact that he only fired once (as opposed to the 20 times we've seen in Real Life) showed great constraint on his part.  If they really wanted to make this a #BLM episode, Darius and/or Romeo should have been shot for not doing anything wrong.

* have you ever driven while black?

) Being snitty is not cause for that serious of horrendous events to go down. Even driving without a license and insurance is a situation that can be handled without gunplay. (for certain members of a certain population)

2) Romeo was checking on Darius, not rushing the officer, when he was shot. The most agressive person in this scenario was Rachel running out the bushes toward the scene.

3) Again, a few traffic violations ARE NO REASON FOR ANYONE TO GET SHOT.  We have witnessed unarmed black men acting in full compliance and still end up beaten/and or murdered. Unlike a young white man who walks into a church and massacres nine people, and is armed YET captured "without incident" and gets a meal from Burger King.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Jade Foxx
needed to make more points

[Marsupial]

Quote

This makes the third series this year I've given up on. Either I'm getting old or TV is sucking. Probably both.

LOL I hear you on both points. I've dumped three shows in the past year as well. Now I have only three shows that I religiously watch or DVR: Devious Maids, Nashville and Unreal, and Unreal is taking a brisk walk toward the guillotine. I may cling on to the bitter end, and I have no doubt it will be bitter and ugly indeed, but I won't tune in next season if there is one.

Quote

She's just bought what Quinn's selling, but she doesn't have Quinn's iron will or absolute conviction. 

Excellently put. Quinn knows herself and Rachel is self-deluding, as Adam pointed out to her.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

A thousand times YES.  Why have a black policewoman and not use her?

In y view nothing that either cop did was based on race.  Darius (who obviously never got "the talk") was being snitty and never said anything about his back until he was being bent over.  Then first Rachel, then Romeo rushed at the officer.  He had no time to think, only time to react.  The fact that he only fired once (as opposed to the 20 times we've seen in Real Life) showed great constraint on his part.  If they really wanted to make this a #BLM episode, Darius and/or Romeo should have been shot for not doing anything wrong.

Oh, my God.

[Jade Foxx]

34 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh, my God.

I tried to respond in a neutral manner. Please know I wanted to go full blast. 

"The police officer only shot him once. He showed SO MUCH restraint! He's lucky he didn't shoot him twenty times!"

GTFOH

[nara]

2 hours ago, Jade Foxx said:

* have you ever driven while black?

) Being snitty is not cause for that serious of horrendous events to go down. Even driving without a license and insurance is a situation that can be handled without gunplay. (for certain members of a certain population)

2) Romeo was checking on Darius, not rushing the officer, when he was shot. The most agressive person in this scenario was Rachel running out the bushes toward the scene.

3) Again, a few traffic violations ARE NO REASON FOR ANYONE TO GET SHOT.  We have witnessed unarmed black men acting in full compliance and still end up beaten/and or murdered. Unlike a young white man who walks into a church and massacres nine people, and is armed YET captured "without incident" and gets a meal from Burger King.

Here's how I understood the situation and the  motivations at eachieve step.  It's ambiguous in my opinion in some cases whether or not the motivations were racially-based. There are many things that can be interpreted either way, without knowing more about the officers involved.  Either way, this is horrific incident that Rachel and Coleman caused.

The cops stopped a car that was reported stolen(Non-racial). Darius and Romeo joked about giving the police a couple of signed pictures (non-racial). Darius didn't have license so they got suspicious (non-racial). Knowledge of who Darius is but unability to recognize him (maybe racial, maybe darkness). The people in car tried to explain the situation and the police didn't believe them (maybe racial, maybe not). Tiffany looked zonked out in the back seat and the policewoman told Romeo to shut up when he tried to explain  (maybe racial, maybe not). Policewoman telling Romeo to shut up when he tried to talk to Darius  (maybe racial, maybe not). Rough treatment of Darius as he was made to leave car (probably racial). Disbelief in his injury (maybe racial,  maybe not). Policeman being startled by Rachel running towards scene from behind him (non-racial). Policeman being startled by Romeo moving behind him (non-racial). Policeman shooting one person who startled him and not the other  (probably racial, maybe distance-related).

Analysis: although many parts of the confrontation were not racially-motivated, the final outcome was impacted by race.