Track & Field: Insert Latest Scandal here

[blackwing]

Wow.  US men just disqualified!  Waiting to hear what happened

[sereion]

WHAT!!!!!!! DQ'd!!!!!??? W.T.F???

Edited August 20, 2016 by sereion

[AimingforYoko]

US Men's 4 x 100 relay team DQ'd. Same as it ever was. 

[Ohwell]

WTF???

[SeanC]

US disqualified?

[Ohwell]

14 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Japan is probably one of those teams that train for these events more than teams like the US and focus on getting the baton around the track. You don't necessarily need to have the fastest runners if your baton skills are flawless.

Plus that one guy is half-Jamacian. ; ) (His other half is Japanese.)

[Daisy]

[Arynm]

They said the were DQ'd for passing before the line, it looked clean to me. I hope US files a protest

[mtlchick]

I have to say Donovan Bailey's face at the US DQ news made me choke on my tongue.   And look at that, it seems Gatlin took the baton outside of the exchange zone.  BAHAHAHAHA! 

Trinidad and Tobago are also DQed though that doesn't matter.  Now about Japan....

[selkie]

Can we fire Dennis Mitchell as US relays coach yet? 

Wouldn't be surprised to see an appeal of the USA men's 4x100 since one of the camera angles just might show the handoff inside the exchange zone.

[sereion]

Seriously, someone needs to fire the coach responsible for this US mens team. Between dropped batons and DQ's, 16+ years and they still can't get it together. SMDH.

Edited August 20, 2016 by sereion

[SeanC]

Trayvon Bromell aggravated the injury to his leg for nothing, it seems.  Yikes.

Re: De Grasse, has any other Canadian runner won three medals?

[KenyaJ]

Sigh, Team USA.

But is Trayvon Brommel okay? Will NBC let us know? Will NBC even mention that nasty looking fall he had?

[blackwing]

I guess it depends on what is considered the exchange.  The first guy, Mike something, says he didn't let go of the baton until it was in the zone.  Is the exchange considered to happen when the acquirer first touches it or when the releaser fully releases it?

If the results hold, I guess Tyson Gay's woes continue.

Gatlin claimed he was injured and turned an ankle which is why he failed at the 200 semifinal.  But seemed to have no issues tonight

[superdeluxe]

Congrats to Team Jamaica and Usain Bolt.  If this really is it for Bolt, I'm going to miss him.  Track will not be the same.

Congrats to Japan.  That was a shock.

As for Team USA -- all I can do is shake my head.

[mtlchick]

Quote

.  Is the exchange considered to happen when the acquirer first touches it or when the releaser fully releases it?

CBC said it was when it touched Gatlin's hand.  

[Elsydeon]

14 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Trayvon Bromell aggravated the injury to his leg for nothing, it seems.  Yikes.

Re: De Grasse, has any other Canadian runner won three medals?

Two Canadians won 3 T&F medals each in 1932.

[Growsonwalls]

Well Usain Bolt has been a great ambassador for the sport. Besides being superman he's also funny, charismatic, and gave this scandal-ridden sport a friendly happy face. I'm so grateful to have seen him three-peat. He'll be missed.

[mightysparrow]

I'm so happy for the women's 4x100 team.  They kept their cool and absolutely triumphed.  And they are all beautiful women but I agree with @Ohwell:  Ms Bowie is stunning!  Her dark skin is flawless and is so gorgeous.  I hope dark-skinned girls all over the world see her and realize that they're beautiful too.

As far as the men's 4x100 that was kind of fucked up.  I'm Canadian so I'm happy that Canada got the medal.  However, before the US got DQ'd the CBC was all over the Japanese team apparently going out of their lane.  Now that the US is out of the way, I guess they won't follow up but if Japan broke the rules they should be out too. 

Usain Bolt needs to retire now and leave on top.  Right now he's tied with Carl Lewis with the 9 golds but as we all know now, Carl was juiced to the gills so I don't think he counts.

[sereion]

Question: Just how long has Mitchell coached the relay team; I read that he's been coaching since 2014, if that's true, how does that explain the other disastrous performances over the years--specifically in Bejing? Not to mention that Mitchell was caught doping back in the day.  If USATF want to regain their dominance in the sprints, they seriously need to clean house. 

[Daisy]

the rule is, you can't step on the line in the bend. the straight is fine as long as you are in your own lane and don't impede. that's why japan is okay. 

[mtlchick]

Quote

  Now that the US is out of the way, I guess they won't follow up but if Japan broke the rules they should be out too. 

It finally became a "cooler heads prevailed" moment: the commentators explained that because it happened on the straight, it's fine so long they don't impede on the runner in the next lane.  If it happened on the curve, that considered taking a short cut, and that results in a DQ.  

[SeanC]

The finals of women's pole vaulting that I watched on CBC's stream were really interesting, I will say.  The New Zealand girl, Eliza McCartney, was great fun to watch.  Too bad she topped out, but seeing as she's only 19 I have to imagine the New Zealand Committee will be going full court press to get her to put off med school and go for another Olympics.

[blackwing]

19 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

It finally became a "cooler heads prevailed" moment: the commentators explained that because it happened on the straight, it's fine so long they don't impede on the runner in the next lane.  If it happened on the curve, that considered taking a short cut, and that results in a DQ.  

Thanks for the explanation, I learn so much from these threads.  I'm now wondering about the women's 200.  My favourite, Veronica Campbell Brown, made the turn and bizarrely ran after the turn in someone else's lane.  They said she wasn't disqualified because she didn't impede the runner who was in that lane.  Did she not get DQ because she went from an inside lane to outside and thus made it longer for herself (I can't remember which lane she was in to start and which one she moved to)?  Is the rule different for relays vs an individual race?  In any event, her time wasn't fast enough to advance.  At least she got a silver in tonight's relay.  

[Zuleikha]

Is the rule different for relays vs an individual race?  In any event, her time wasn't fast enough to advance.  At least she got a silver in tonight's relay.  

I think it's a combo of that she went to an outside lane and made the event longer for herself, didn't impede the runner assigned to the lane, and failed to advance anyway.

With regards to the racewalking vs. the women's 4 x 100, I think there are two key differences in what happened. The first is that the racewalking event didn't have assigned lanes whereas the 4 x 100 did. As far as I know, some degree of jostling is legal in distance... everyone's trying to hug the inside curve to run the shortest distance, so jostling can happen when one runner passes another. But I think the more important difference is that the bump in the 4 x 100 happened at the handoff and appeared to have been directly responsible for a baton drop.

[anyanka323]

After the US male sprinters underwhelming Olympics, you have to wonder what is going on and why it happened.  I don't think that the Jamaican and Usain Bolt dominance helps morale much.  The issue of doping rears its ugly head with two of the participants in the 4 x 100 meter relay (Tyson Gay and Justin Gatlin) having served suspensions for being caught. 

One theory of mine for the lack of development among college aged sprinters is that the American men became less dominant around the time that more mobile quarterbacks in both college and pro football became more common.  Think Michael Vick in his prime for someone with speed and mobility.  Denard Robinson, the former Michigan quarterback, now with the Jaguars, was a standout in the Florida track scene in high school and recruited for both track & field and football.  It's one explanation from my POV. 

[Sew Sumi]

Just wondering if anyone knows: The USA women qualified first in the heats. Why were they down in lane 1? I thought best times got preferred lanes. 

[blackwing]

3 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Just wondering if anyone knows: The USA women qualified first in the heats. Why were they down in lane 1? I thought best times got preferred lanes. 

It's that way in swimming, but I'm pretty sure in track that there is a random draw for lane assignments.  Ato has said several times something like "he/she got lucky in the draw".

[selkie]

23 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Just wondering if anyone knows: The USA women qualified first in the heats. Why were they down in lane 1? I thought best times got preferred lanes. 

My guess would be that, even though they posted the fastest time in the time trial, what they were racing for was effectively the 'last spot in the final' which is the lane the Chinese would have otherwise gotten if the appeal had been unsuccessful or the American women hadn't met the time standard. Since they bumped the Chinese, they got the China's literal spot in the field. 

I know that in swimming if a swim-off is required to determine the 8th or 16th spot in the next round, the winner of the swim-off gets the lane for the 8th or 16th place even if they were faster in the swim off than others had been in heat or semifinal action that round. 

[Sew Sumi]

But I've also heard Ato talk about people being in preferred lanes. Such as Bolt getting 6 in the 200 with some rabbits to chase to get him going that weren't going to be real contenders in the end. I also think Bolt got 4 or 5 the rest of the meet (but check me...I just remember him in the middle in all of his quals/finals) I missed Van Neukirk's (sp) qual time in the 400 (I think it was a morning heat, and those suckers started at 5:30am my time). Dude was way out in lane 8 when he won; did his qual time suck Given what we saw later, why Lane 8???? Winning gold and WEs from there just.do.not.happen. 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[TVFan17]

2 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Sigh, Team USA.

But is Trayvon Brommel okay? Will NBC let us know? Will NBC even mention that nasty looking fall he had?

I was wondering if he was okay too.  I just watched the West Coast feed and I cringed when I saw the fall.  I just fell on some hard pavement about 2-1/2 months ago, and injured my wrist and knee -- neither of which has fully returned to normal -- and I was walking at a leisurely pace; not running at lightning speed.  I can't imagine the kinds of injuries these runners have when they fall while running at such a high speed, even if he was in the process of slowing down.

[selkie]

Back to the IAAF rulebook:

https://www.iaaf.org/about-iaaf/documents/rules-regulations

Rule 166:

Quote

For events 100m to 800m inclusive, and relays up to and including 4 × 400m, where there are several successive rounds of a race, lanes will be drawn as follows:

(a) in the first round and any preliminary qualification round as per Rule 166.1, the lane order shall be drawn by lot. (b) For the following rounds, athletes shall be ranked after each round in accordance with the procedure shown in Rule 166.3(b)(i) or, in the case of 800m, 166.3(b)(ii).

three draws will then be made: (i) one for the four highest ranked athletes or teams to determine placings in lanes 3, 4, 5 and 6; (ii) another for the fifth and sixth ranked athletes or teams to determine placings in lanes 7 and 8, and (iii)another for the two lowest ranked athletes or teams to determine placings in lanes 1 and 2.

So Wayde Van Niekurk was in lane 8 because he only ran the semifinals just fast enough to get second place in his heat, and had a time that was 5th or 6th ranking in the round, giving him either lane 7 or 8 so he ended up in the outside smoke role for the final. 

[Sew Sumi]

THANK YOU! I knew it wasn't random draw. #vindication #notLochtestupid ;)

It still doesn't explain US relay in Lane 1 with the top qualifying time. Even with the do-over, the time still should count...OR does it only count as an automatic 7th regardless of time? That's the only logical reason I can figure out. 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[NUguy514]

4 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

THANK YOU! I knew it wasn't random draw. #vindication #notLochtestupid ;)

It still doesn't explain US relay in Lane 1 with the top qualifying time. Even with the do-over, the time still should count...OR does it only count as an automatic 7th regardless of time? That's the only logical reason I can figure out. 

Ato Boldon actually explained this last night, and it surprised me: because the US women didn't qualify during an actual semifinal heat and were given the opportunity to qualify for the final in a timed run after the fact, they were not going to be given a preferred lane no matter how fast their qualifying time was.  In essence, they were competing for China's spot, so they were really competing to run in either Lane 1 or Lane 8.  It obviously didn't matter because those women were winning from any lane like the absolute BOSSES they are!!

I laughed and laughed at the DQ for our men.  Serves Gatlin and Gay right.

[katisha]

I got such a kick out of the fact that our Aussie girls were SO damn excited, jumping up and down and squealing, just because they qualified for the 4x400 relay in which they're pretty likely to come last since they had the slowest time.  Honestly, we really suck at running these days and to see their reaction, you would have thought they'd won the gold medal!  I guess it's all relative. :)

[GreekGeek]

I'm disappointed that NBC didn't show Katerina Stefanidis's gold medal pole vault. The USA-centric coverage is understandable, but this omission bugged.

[katisha]

Just now, GreekGeek said:

I'm disappointed that NBC didn't show Katerina Stefanidis's gold medal pole vault. The USA-centric coverage is understandable, but this omission bugged.

We got to see it here in Australia, but only because we happened to have a competitor who made the top four, and someone from New Zealand who got the bronze.  But it shouldn't depend on that, of course.  I've missed a whole heap of gymnastics because we could only scrape up ONE competitor of either gender but I'd still like to have seen it anyway - I don't just like watching things in which my country is competing.

[selkie]

15 minutes ago, katisha said:

I got such a kick out of the fact that our Aussie girls were SO damn excited, jumping up and down and squealing, just because they qualified for the 4x400 relay in which they're pretty likely to come last since they had the slowest time.  Honestly, we really suck at running these days and to see their reaction, you would have thought they'd won the gold medal!  I guess it's all relative. :)

Remember Steven Bradford and the Belgium women's 4x100 in 2008. If you've got a lane in the final, anything can happen. 

Speaking of 2008, apparently Nesta Carter's B sample came back positive. He was on Jamaica's 4x100 relay that year, and it's going to be interesting to see if the remaining members of the relay, including Bolt, are allowed to keep their medals and place in the race or if they will be reallocated.  Given the current climate in track, reallocation is probably likely because it's bad pr to seem like there is some playing favorite, but I feel for Bolt and the other two guys on the squad. 

Speaking of Belgium, if only Olivia Bourlee (part of that 2008 squad) had been born Oliver, they actually could have had a squad of four brothers all good enough to make an Olympic or WC final in the 4x100. As it is, always fun to see the three brothers + 1 random guy from Bruges on that squad for the big meets. 

[Bill1978]

16 minutes ago, katisha said:

We got to see it here in Australia, but only because we happened to have a competitor who made the top four, and someone from New Zealand who got the bronze.  But it shouldn't depend on that, of course.  I've missed a whole heap of gymnastics because we could only scrape up ONE competitor of either gender but I'd still like to have seen it anyway - I don't just like watching things in which my country is competing.

Maybe our Girls will pull a repeat of our Men's 4 x 400m relay success in Athens. It's my favourite medal winning memory of that Olympics. I re-watched it the other day and Bruce McAveney begins the race with and there is Australia, just happy to be here in the final. And look how that ended with a silver!

[katisha]

5 minutes ago, selkie said:

Remember Steven Bradford and the Belgium women's 4x100 in 2008. If you've got a lane in the final, anything can happen. 

Very true.  I guess I just need to think positive!

1 minute ago, Bill1978 said:

Maybe our Girls will pull a repeat of our Men's 4 x 400m relay success in Athens. It's my favourite medal winning memory of that Olympics. I re-watched it the other day and Bruce McAveney begins the race with and there is Australia, just happy to be here in the final. And look how that ended with a silver!

I think we'd all love to see that happen. :)

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, GreekGeek said:

I'm disappointed that NBC didn't show Katerina Stefanidis's gold medal pole vault. The USA-centric coverage is understandable, but this omission bugged.

Coverage by NBC of any of the non-marquee events is dismal.  If you really want to see events in their entirety, and see non-US athletes, best to stream on nbcolympics.com.  Women's pole vault just doesn't rate.  Even the women's shot put, won by an American, we only saw her final throw.  The men's shot put, 1-2 by Americans, we only saw three throws.

[BitterApple]

Last night before the start of the relay, my husband and I were debating whether or not the US men had a shot against Jamaica. I said and I quote, "well, at least they'll get a medal as long as they don't fuck it up." After the race my husband said "too bad they didn't win, but it seems like there's no longer a curse on the 4×100." Cut to commercial and then back to the announcers saying the team was disqualified. It's like there's a black cloud over these guys or something.

[greyhorse]

6 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Ato Boldon actually explained this last night, and it surprised me: because the US women didn't qualify during an actual semifinal heat and were given the opportunity to qualify for the final in a timed run after the fact, they were not going to be given a preferred lane no matter how fast their qualifying time was.  In essence, they were competing for China's spot, so they were really competing to run in either Lane 1 or Lane 8.  It obviously didn't matter because those women were winning from any lane like the absolute BOSSES they are!!

I laughed and laughed at the DQ for our men.  Serves Gatlin and Gay right.

Yeah, they said something like "US women win gold FROM LANE 1"!  The lowest qualifiers are usually in the outside lanes, so it's probably pretty rare in a final for a team to win from lane 1.  Kudos to the US women.  I love watching Allyson Felix run.  She's only 5'6" but her legs look much longer and she has beautiful form.  I always think of the Road Runner cartoon when watching her.  I hope she's back but there are pregnancy rumors so maybe she is ready to shut it all down.

I don't understand how you mistime a baton pass.  Justin Gatlin?  How many times have you taken a baton in your career?  Don't you know you can't take it outside the box?  I'd expect this kind of screw up in junior high track and field, not at the Olympics level.  SMH.

[xaxat]

13 hours ago, sereion said:

Question: Just how long has Mitchell coached the relay team; I read that he's been coaching since 2014, if that's true, how does that explain the other disastrous performances over the years--specifically in Bejing? Not to mention that Mitchell was caught doping back in the day.  If USATF want to regain their dominance in the sprints, they seriously need to clean house. 

Hell, I remember it happening back in Seoul 1988. It cost Carl Lewis a medal.

That piece showing the team watching their failures was kind of brutal. 

12 hours ago, anyanka323 said:

After the US male sprinters underwhelming Olympics, you have to wonder what is going on and why it happened.  I don't think that the Jamaican and Usain Bolt dominance helps morale much.  The issue of doping rears its ugly head with two of the participants in the 4 x 100 meter relay (Tyson Gay and Justin Gatlin) having served suspensions for being caught. 

One theory of mine for the lack of development among college aged sprinters is that the American men became less dominant around the time that more mobile quarterbacks in both college and pro football became more common.  Think Michael Vick in his prime for someone with speed and mobility.  Denard Robinson, the former Michigan quarterback, now with the Jaguars, was a standout in the Florida track scene in high school and recruited for both track & field and football.  It's one explanation from my POV. 

I think football might have something to do with it. The game is putting a higher emphasis on speed and athleticism in general. Robert Griffin III was an All American hurdler, but stopped competing to concentrate on football. Jeff Demps went to the NFL after competing on the London team. And Devon Allen's fifth place finish in the 110m hurdles probably increased his draft stock as he heads back to play wide receiver for the Oregon Ducks. I'm sure there are others.

Being seen as a "track guy" used to be a negative in NFL scouting. Not so much any more.

[azshadowwalker]

4 hours ago, katisha said:

We got to see it here in Australia, but only because we happened to have a competitor who made the top four, and someone from New Zealand who got the bronze.  But it shouldn't depend on that, of course.  I've missed a whole heap of gymnastics because we could only scrape up ONE competitor of either gender but I'd still like to have seen it anyway - I don't just like watching things in which my country is competing.

Don't worry. We missed most of the non-US competitors, and we had lots of athletes involved. The winning teams in men's gymnastics were shown less than the US men beating their chests and roaring at each other. That is literal, too. We saw one full routine by the Japanese men, and that's about it. I am just grateful for the Chinese divers and Usain Bolt. I watch the games to see the best athletes in the world, not to wave flags. 

[frogzapper]

15 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

Loved the Japanese team's samurai sword mime when they came out of the tunnel. So dorky!

I got a kick out of that too, and I thought it was cute how the Canadian team came out and zipped up their tops in unison too!

Bolt is just amazing. He looks like he's from a different species or something, he's so big and strong looking - he just dwarfs the competition! I was hoping De Grasse would make it up to second place. I really like watching him run too - he looks so compact and speedy!

The women's 4x100 relay was great too. All of the US women looked so impressive and I thought it was really exciting watching English Gardner accelerate around the final turn! 41.01 s - wow! Are the race split times posted anywhere? 

[DollEyes]

Just when it seemed like Usain Bolt couldn't get any better, he did. Not even Lochtegate could ruin Bolt's pulling off the "Triple-Triple." Usain Bolt is handsome, charismatic, fun to watch and he left his sport on a high note, unlike Ryan Lochte. 

 Congrats to the U. S. Women's 4 x 100 winners. At least they got it right, unlike the Men's team.

Speaking of which, so Justin Gatlin fucks up again. Water is wet, the sun is warm and Ryan Lochte is stupid. Tell me something I don't know. 

[Ohwell]

Can't we just leave *He who shall go nameless because, apparently, he's the devil incarnate to some people and I think it's gotten rather ridiculous and blown waaay out of proportion and he just fucked up like we all do sometimes* out of the track & field thread?  

As far as I'm concerned, this is Usain Bolt's house. ; )

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Can't we just leave *He who shall go nameless because, apparently, he's the devil incarnate to some people and I think it's gotten rather ridiculous and blown waaay out of proportion and he just fucked up like we all do sometimes* out of the track & field thread?  

Oh, come on -- that's a little harsh for Justin Gatlin!  ;-)

Edited August 20, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Ohwell]

5 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Oh, come on -- that's a little harsh for Justin Gatlin!  ;-)

Who was my Olympic boyfriend back in 2004! : (