The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Lady Whistleup]

Holy lip fillers, Jinger! I overall like her makeover, but she does look really plastic now.

[libgirl2]

What is the issue date? 

[Salacious Kitty]

28 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

What is the issue date? 

31st.

[RazzleberryPie]

Is it me or does she look like an Olsen twin? 

[Mindthinkr]

16 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Is it me or does she look like an Olsen twin? 

 No, that was my initial impression as well. 

[SnapHappy]

She still looks better than Jessa ever did on her best day. 

Plus, getting a cover photo that she doesn't have to share with any siblings, a husband or a pregnant belly is a bonus. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by SnapHappy

[sixlets]

The People magazine with Jinger’s story is dated January 30th, and the main cover photo is Lisa Marie Presley. Jinger did manager to score a smaller picture in the upper left corner of the cover. 
 

ETA-I’m also going to add this the media thread as well. And RIP to Lisa Marie 😔

[lascuba]

Good for her marketing team for capitilizing on the "free Jinger" internet, but holy hell does it irk my soul that it's working when her concept of freedom means changing cults to one who lets her wear pants.

 

[Salacious Kitty]

23 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Good for her marketing team for capitilizing on the "free Jinger" internet, but holy hell does it irk my soul that it's working when her concept of freedom means changing cults to one who lets her wear pants.

 

Apparently the title is biblical, although she acknowledges that she's aware of Free Jinger.

[MrsKravitz]

Reporting from atheist hellhole of Portland. Just checked Libby—8 holds for ebook and 66 for audiobook. We might be atheists, but we’re curious. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I took a look at the clip of her prep and photo shot on the beach.  I think she looked good.  Isn’t her accent different than it used to be?  Also, she did look a little awkward, which is surprising since she’s been on tv and posing for many years.  And, I’m just curious as to why they photographed her at the beach house and not the house she really lives and why the beach?  Is she a beach person?  Maybe, I’m not familiar with the theme of her book.  

[merylinkid]

7 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I took a look at the clip of her prep and photo shot on the beach.  I think she looked good.  Isn’t her accent different than it used to be?  Also, she did look a little awkward, which is surprising since she’s been on tv and posing for many years.  And, I’m just curious as to why they photographed her at the beach house and not the house she really lives and why the beach?  Is she a beach person?  Maybe, I’m not familiar with the theme of her book.  

I can see them using a prop house.   In this day and age, you don't really want to put your real house out there.   Folks will use the slightest clue like the garbage truck rolling by and the angle of the sun to figure out where your house is.   then just show up.   

I can see Jinger being nervous.   This is her "big break" from her upbringing.   She knows it won't be received well.   

We who had choices growing up and we not abused like she was, never allowed an independent thought, think she should be doing more.    But this is someone who went from thinking she would be killed in a car accident because she was going to do something fun WITH HER FAMILY instead of staying home and reading her bible.   No wonder she had anxiety.   Can you imagine always being worried about what would happen if you happened to guess wrong what God (Jim bob) really wanted you to do?   The fact she is even going to fundie lite and THINKING about giving her kids' choices she never had is a HUGE step.   The Duggar kids and the Rods kids are not going to suddenly bust out and go wild, becoming atheists and dressing in tube tops and short shorts.   They are going to take what seem to us to be very minor steps.   But are HUGE when you consider how constrained they were to take ANY steps on out of their cages.   Now the next generation?    Expect major secularism.   The next generation after that - you won't even be able to tell they were once fundie (although some will stay that way always).  

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, MrsKravitz said:

Reporting from atheist hellhole of Portland. Just checked Libby—8 holds for ebook and 66 for audiobook. We might be atheists, but we’re curious. 

I'm not that surprised at this.  Thomas Nelson put money into the marketing of this and is going for at least in my opinion interesting tack.  People not familiar with what Jinger has been up to in California want to read the book thinking they are getting a memoir akin to the biggest memoirs of the last 6 months--Jeanette McCurdy's I'm Glad My Mom Died and Prince Harry's Spare.  They will be sorely disappointed when they realize Jinger has only traded one cult for another, and she is not spilling any tea.  

[Absolom]

I know people like to say Jinger left one cult for another, but it's more like she left a cult to a very conservative evangelical church.  They do not hold liberal views for sure, but the differences are vital to really understanding the moves she's made.  She has changed the foundation of her theology and recognized that she can change it again as she grows in understanding.  She now knows that she can determine what she believes.  One thing to me that is interesting is that she almost didn't marry Jeremy because of theological differences and those differences caused Jim Bob much heart burn.  In the book she's apparently giving Ben the credit for beginning her transition.  

[Minivanessa]

8 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I know people like to say Jinger left one cult for another, but it's more like she left a cult to a very conservative evangelical church.  They do not hold liberal views for sure, but the differences are vital to really understanding the moves she's made.  She has changed the foundation of her theology and recognized that she can change it again as she grows in understanding.  She now knows that she can determine what she believes.  One thing to me that is interesting is that she almost didn't marry Jeremy because of theological differences and those differences caused Jim Bob much heart burn.  In the book she's apparently giving Ben the credit for beginning her transition.  

Thank you for this. I'm wary of throwing around the term "cult" for several reasons, I think mainly because I hate to see it devalued. I may find a certain theology repugnant, but that doesn't necessarily mean that its followers are cultists. I'm okay with calling IBLP a cult, because of the level of mind and behavior control its adherents exercise over themselves and those dependent on them. And yeah I consider the Duggars a cult family given how they isolate themselves from the ebil secular world, and live by Gothard's long list of rules which they consider the Word of God. 

But MacArthur's church? Very conservative, yes. A cult? No. 

I wish Jinger well. Of all those siblings, I'd most like to sit down for a cup of tea with Jinger and Jill. IMO they are the best of the bunch. Which, in case this is getting a little sentimental or cloying, is not a high bar. 🙂

[Meow Mix]

I'm kind of torn on the cult aspect.  I took a class in sects and cults when I was in college and the first order of business was defining what was a cult.  The definition can get quite broad.  Early Christianity was a cult offshoot of the Jewish faith.

Why I'm torn about the cult aspect is that it is well documented that McArthur does not tolerate dissent at all.  Many people have been banished for even minor disagreements with him.  So while Jinger has reevaluated her faith, if she reevaluates away from what McArthur and Jeremy want, she will have serious problems.  I'm glad she at least gets to leave behind the anxiety of thinking that God is going to zap her any minute, but I don't believe her deconstruction is going to go any farther than what it is now.

[SMama]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

One thing to me that is interesting is that she almost didn't marry Jeremy because of theological differences and those differences caused Jim Bob much heart burn.  In the book she's apparently giving Ben the credit for beginning her transition.  

I find it amusing that JB was such an arrogant ass about pretty much getting to choose who his daughters married. I recall a talking head when a producer asked him what if a daughter (Jill and Jessa were courting at the time) chose to marry someone he didn’t approve. He smugly replied that if he had a concern a daughter didn’t share the daughter would end the relationship because they trusted him.

Let’s see, Derick was the first one to defect, Jill joined him. Dude even called him verbally abusive in public. 
 

Eunuch Ben led Jinger to question JB’s and Michelle’s legalistic BS. Ironic how he can’t work that magic with his own wife. I guess the difference is Jinger actually listened to him.

Once Jinger was primed for change Jeremy swooped in and took it from there. 

Damn, JB, thankfully you are an abject failure at sniffing forever obedient sons in law. Now Jinger is out there saying god won’t kill you in a horrible car crash if you wear pants or drink alcohol. It must really piss JB off to watch his house of cards collapse. 

JB can’t do anything about Derick and Jeremy. Poor, emasculated Ben is constantly there as a reminder. I wonder if JB’s and Ben’s relationship has changed as a result.

May more Duggar Bots find their way out the hold JB has on them. 
 

 

[Absolom]

There are so many different definitions of cult, that almost any religious group could fit into one of them.  I tend to think here, though, that the common usage is of a religious splinter group closer to the Branch Davidians than the usage of a particular religious group such as the usage for early Christians.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

I'm kind of torn on the cult aspect.  I took a class in sects and cults when I was in college and the first order of business was defining what was a cult.  The definition can get quite broad.  Early Christianity was a cult offshoot of the Jewish faith.

Why I'm torn about the cult aspect is that it is well documented that McArthur does not tolerate dissent at all.  Many people have been banished for even minor disagreements with him.  So while Jinger has reevaluated her faith, if she reevaluates away from what McArthur and Jeremy want, she will have serious problems.  I'm glad she at least gets to leave behind the anxiety of thinking that God is going to zap her any minute, but I don't believe her deconstruction is going to go any farther than what it is now.

Yeah, the stuff that has come out about Jeremy's institution of higher learning makes it sound like a cult.  The church Jinger attends, GCC, maybe not so much on the surface.  It's hard to verify the church without reading or listening to personal accounts of the various members.  And also harder to separate the two institutions and figure out how much of the cronyism and cult of personality bleed into the church.   

I also did mention trading one cult for another when describing the waitlist for Jinger's book in a very liberal city like Portland.  The further you are from organized religion, the more conservative Christian churches read as cults.  

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Meow Mix said:

Why I'm torn about the cult aspect is that it is well documented that McArthur does not tolerate dissent at all.  Many people have been banished for even minor disagreements with him. 

We've seen people removed from leadership roles for sure.  MacArthur doesn't know what the beliefs are for probably 99% of the attendees unless they make a point of confronting him.  I've seen such things all my life so a church leader removing or asking someone to leave because they are clashing over theological points is no surprise to me.  After all, do you want someone shepherding the flock into what you perceive as error?  It's kind of like the business owner who would let someone go if their sales pitch was this store sells cheap mixers go to glorious mixer down the street.  Or as I watched happen, I attend a Jesus is love, happy clappy type of Catholic parish.  One deacon as he aged got quite cranky.  He tried to chastise me at an evening service and then on a Sunday afternoon service went off on tangent that did not follow diocese guidelines.  Apparently I wasn't the only one who mentioned I did not appreciate being singled out or having him go on rants.  He only lasted a month or so as a deacon after that and was retired.  While I may not agree with MacDonald's beliefs, it is right and one could even say his duty to maintain certain standards that the congregation expects.  I think the diocese would have been at fault had they not reined in the renegade deacon.   

It's the old two sides minimum to every story.  Again, I would never join MacDonald's church as I do think him a despot, but he isn't entirely always wrong to remove someone who he thinks is presenting false teaching or deliberately sowing dissent.  

Edited January 25, 2023 by Absolom

[Stevie Nicks]

This is from her Instagram. The pants look like they are wrinkled. And her smug expression. 

[GeeGolly]

It would be really sad if Jinger hopped from one cult to another. The way I see it is most of the married Duggar adults attend churches different from their parents. From Fundy to more mainstream uber conservative. As far as I know, all their churches teach hate and are somewhat fear based. So to me its not about the church Jinger attends.

As of 2023, Jinger is the only Duggar to say the faith based way her parents raised her was wrong. Jinger is the only Duggar to say its okay to not blindly obey their parents and their faith if it feels wrong.

[Girl in a Cardigan]

1 hour ago, Stevie Nicks said:

This is from her Instagram. The pants look like they are wrinkled. And her smug expression. 

What I really want to know was how long she spent artfully displaying the select pieces of dirty laundry on the side of the hamper. Especially whatever that thin red thing is (you know, for a pop of color in their sad, grey closet). 

[AstridM]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I can see them using a prop house.   In this day and age, you don't really want to put your real house out there.   Folks will use the slightest clue like the garbage truck rolling by and the angle of the sun to figure out where your house is.   then just show up.   

I can see Jinger being nervous.   This is her "big break" from her upbringing.   She knows it won't be received well.   

We who had choices growing up and we not abused like she was, never allowed an independent thought, think she should be doing more.    But this is someone who went from thinking she would be killed in a car accident because she was going to do something fun WITH HER FAMILY instead of staying home and reading her bible.   No wonder she had anxiety.   Can you imagine always being worried about what would happen if you happened to guess wrong what God (Jim bob) really wanted you to do?   The fact she is even going to fundie lite and THINKING about giving her kids' choices she never had is a HUGE step.   The Duggar kids and the Rods kids are not going to suddenly bust out and go wild, becoming atheists and dressing in tube tops and short shorts.   They are going to take what seem to us to be very minor steps.   But are HUGE when you consider how constrained they were to take ANY steps on out of their cages.   Now the next generation?    Expect major secularism.   The next generation after that - you won't even be able to tell they were once fundie (although some will stay that way always).  

I’m not sure I’d call Mcarthur’s cruel and controlling brand of religion “fundie lite” though. I wonder how much she’ll share about the specifics in the actual book. 

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

I know people like to say Jinger left one cult for another, but it's more like she left a cult to a very conservative evangelical church.  They do not hold liberal views for sure, but the differences are vital to really understanding the moves she's made.  She has changed the foundation of her theology and recognized that she can change it again as she grows in understanding.  She now knows that she can determine what she believes.  One thing to me that is interesting is that she almost didn't marry Jeremy because of theological differences and those differences caused Jim Bob much heart burn.  In the book she's apparently giving Ben the credit for beginning her transition.  

But will she truly lay out the specifics of MacArthur’s theology in the book?

2 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I'm kind of torn on the cult aspect.  I took a class in sects and cults when I was in college and the first order of business was defining what was a cult.  The definition can get quite broad.  Early Christianity was a cult offshoot of the Jewish faith.

Why I'm torn about the cult aspect is that it is well documented that McArthur does not tolerate dissent at all.  Many people have been banished for even minor disagreements with him.  So while Jinger has reevaluated her faith, if she reevaluates away from what McArthur and Jeremy want, she will have serious problems.  I'm glad she at least gets to leave behind the anxiety of thinking that God is going to zap her any minute, but I don't believe her deconstruction is going to go any farther than what it is now.

Exactly. Isn’t she now essentially a Calvinist? So she believes in predestination? I want to see the details laid out. 

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also did mention trading one cult for another when describing the waitlist for Jinger's book in a very liberal city like Portland.  The further you are from organized religion, the more conservative Christian churches read as cults. 

Exactly this. I consider all religions cults in some ways. That’s just me. 🤷‍♀️

2 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

This is from her Instagram. The pants look like they are wrinkled. And her smug expression. 

Ugh. That smug expression makes her very punchable. Just stop it.

[ginger90]

6 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I can see them using a prop house.   In this day and age, you don't really want to put your real house out there. 

When they announced they bought a house, I found the listing in less than 3 minutes, and I mean them no harm. 

[Absolom]

38 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Exactly this. I consider all religions cults in some ways. That’s just me. 🤷‍♀️

That's the issue.  There are gradients in religious belief and while I do understand that some people (including my departed husband so I really do get it) consider all religion a cult.  Thus we need different vocabulary to discuss the gradients or degrees.  By some definitions all religion could be considered a cult.  But the extreme fundies like IBLP are different from MacArthur and his group which are also different from mainline Christianity.  

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

This is from her Instagram. The pants look like they are wrinkled. And her smug expression. 

The pants do look little wrinkled, but I think the outfit is cute. I would wear that to work (in a color palette more flattering for my personal skin tone) but a sweater, business casual pants, flesh toned heels can be found all over my office in once the dead of winter is over. She looks cute. I love sweaters with interesting textures. I wish I could wear heels that high, but alas I cannot!

[lascuba]

 

On 1/24/2023 at 3:06 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

Apparently the title is biblical, although she acknowledges that she's aware of Free Jinger.

I don't believe for a second that the title isn't a direct reference to Free Jinger; she's just hiding behind a convenient biblical reference. There's no pundit on earth who wouldn't sell their soul for such a pitch perfect dog whistle.

15 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I took a look at the clip of her prep and photo shot on the beach.  I think she looked good.  Isn’t her accent different than it used to be?  Also, she did look a little awkward, which is surprising since she’s been on tv and posing for many years.  And, I’m just curious as to why they photographed her at the beach house and not the house she really lives and why the beach?  Is she a beach person?  Maybe, I’m not familiar with the theme of her book.  

I could see the beach being used as a symbol of her newfound "freedom."

3 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

I'm kind of torn on the cult aspect.  I took a class in sects and cults when I was in college and the first order of business was defining what was a cult.  The definition can get quite broad.  Early Christianity was a cult offshoot of the Jewish faith.

 

I come from the view that the only real difference between religions and cults is that religions are old enough to have some plausible deniability, which is why--apart from my petty glee over what (I hope) JB/M might feel about it--I can't be too impressed with Jinger. I've learned a lot from many here, so I do see that this kind of change is a huge deal among her circles, but for me, it's just not something worth using the word "freedom." (Though, again A++ for the marketing savvy. Seriously, MacArthur needs to be forever grateful at the gift that Jinger's adolescent eyerolls has brought him.)

3 hours ago, SMama said:

Eunuch Ben led Jinger to question JB’s and Michelle’s legalistic BS. Ironic how he can’t work that magic with his own wife. I guess the difference is Jinger actually listened to him.

 

I wonder if Ben is just another version of the pants thing, where pants wearing stopped being a big deal to the family at large long before everyone but Michelle started wearing them publicly. Ben talked about his views before marrying Jessa...I remember discussions about that on the boards and what that might mean. I don't want to imply that JB and Michelle are at all open minded about anything, but it does make me think that Jinger's book isn't the bombshell for them that many of us are hoping it is. A lot of their "convictions" became nothing but set dressing for the show while they gave them up privately. I can easily imagine the IBLP trappings being included in that. Assuming Jinger couches the horrors of her IBLP upbringings in terms sympathetic to her parents (they were also brainwashed, blah blah blah), it's possible that the only reason they'll be upset over the book is because of the speculation it's stirring up as opposed to its contents.

[Salacious Kitty]

Jinger's knowledge of Free Jinger is errant. I forget exactly how she worded it, but she believes the members wanted her to go all out pagan. There was no gray area in her thinking. 

[Absolom]

20 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I've learned a lot from many here, so I do see that this kind of change is a huge deal among her circles, but for me, it's just not something worth using the word "freedom." (Though, again A++ for the marketing savvy. Seriously, MacArthur needs to be forever grateful at the gift that Jinger's adolescent eyerolls has brought him.)

A big Amen to the marketing plan.

[libgirl2]

39 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

The pants do look little wrinkled, but I think the outfit is cute. I would wear that to work (in a color palette more flattering for my personal skin tone) but a sweater, business casual pants, flesh toned heels can be found all over my office in once the dead of winter is over. She looks cute. I love sweaters with interesting textures. I wish I could wear heels that high, but alas I cannot!

My days of heels are over. I never thought I would see the day. 

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

The pants do look little wrinkled, but I think the outfit is cute. I would wear that to work (in a color palette more flattering for my personal skin tone) but a sweater, business casual pants, flesh toned heels can be found all over my office in once the dead of winter is over. She looks cute. I love sweaters with interesting textures. I wish I could wear heels that high, but alas I cannot!

The way she has her sweater tucked in looks odd to me.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, AstridM said:

The way she has her sweater tucked in looks odd to me.

Jinger is parroting what's she has seen other people do on Instagram.  That quasi-French tuck is normally done to highlight a ridiculously priced designer belt like Gucci or Hermes.  It does look odd when Jinger is wearing some random belt that does not look to serve any real purpose other than poking a hole into her sweater.  Also why is she wearing a belt that is 2 sizes too big for her? 

[Absolom]

It's a possibly silly but popular thing to do with tops in the LA area.  I see a lot of it with moms in the 25 to 40 year range every time I'm near an elementary school at dismissal.  

[leighdear]

The French tuck of the sweater is THE look on Instagram.  It's everywhere if you're under 40. I think that's a great color for her and she can pull that look off easily.  And unless you wear 100% polyester, those skinny chinos are gonna wrinkle a bit.  

I pre-ordered the book, no big deal.  I'm interested in what she has to say, though not obsessed like some. People can judge me for spending the money, I don't give a crap. 

People assume so much without any basis other than personal bias, so I'm going to read her words before I judge her decisions.  

[AstridM]

56 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Jinger is parroting what's she has seen other people do on Instagram.  That quasi-French tuck is normally done to highlight a ridiculously priced designer belt like Gucci or Hermes.  It does look odd when Jinger is wearing some random belt that does not look to serve any real purpose other than poking a hole into her sweater.  Also why is she wearing a belt that is 2 sizes too big for her? 

Yeah, she doesn’t need a belt at all. 

[Salacious Kitty]

I've seen lots of 40+ women doing this awful half tuck thing. Most weren't wearing belts. Horrible trend. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m a little embarrassed, because I have that look sometimes, though not as a fashion statement.  I wear my insulin pump on my waistband and regularly have to read it, adjust it, manipulate it, etc…..oh well, I’m definitely over 40!  Lol. 
 

Did Jinger spend time with the Duggars this past holiday season?  

Edited January 25, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[Salacious Kitty]

The Vuolos spent the holidays with Jer's parents at Lake Arrowhead.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

The Vuolos spent the holidays with Jer's parents at Lake Arrowhead.

I see….after that book, how do you sit over dinner and casually discuss pleasantries with your parents?  

[SMama]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I see….after that book, how do you sit over dinner and casually discuss pleasantries with your parents?  

It will be interesting to see how much face to face interaction they have with Ma and Pa Kettle going forward. JB doesn’t come across as the forgiving type. 

[auntieminem]

Jinger just dropped bits of an interview where she explains disentangling and figuring out the crazy that Gothard was teaching. There is a link to the whole interview which I will check out tomorrow.  I am feeling a bit better about Jinger's book even if she is still way more conservative than I have ever been. 

ETA: Here is the podcast.   https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000596623691

Also, this is a very conservative podcaster. Not sure how that impacts the interview but wanted to warn you so you can skip if you want. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by auntieminem
added link

[lascuba]

I came across a video on twitter last night from an ex-fundie who talked about Jinger's move from IBLP to MacArthur. She had made a similar transition while following her abusive husband's lead, and one thing she said that stuck with me is that it was just as controlling but with more modern clothes. She also mentioned something about "tulip" theology which I haven't heard of before but it has something to do with Calvinism. I can't find the video now but I'll look for it and try to link it here.

[auntieminem]

This little snippet of the interview is interesting in how crazy Gothard's rules are yet all these people believe him.  https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn3D5hsNepA/

I cannot imagine how scary it was for her to let go of IBLP teachings. Even though she probably had lots of fun times as child, what a burden for a child to be in fear of breaking rules all the time.  I hope she continues to question and adjust her beliefs.  But this may be as far as she goes, it is still a better place than where she was. 

[GeeGolly]

46 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I came across a video on twitter last night from an ex-fundie who talked about Jinger's move from IBLP to MacArthur. She had made a similar transition while following her abusive husband's lead, and one thing she said that stuck with me is that it was just as controlling but with more modern clothes. She also mentioned something about "tulip" theology which I haven't heard of before but it has something to do with Calvinism. I can't find the video now but I'll look for it and try to link it here.

Google says:

The theology of Calvinism has been immortalized in the acronym TULIP, which states the five essential doctrines of total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints.

[lascuba]

I found the video on tiktok and I've been watching her other videos. Really interesting!

 

[zoomama]

i have watched a lot of tia's videos and i think she is very interesting. as far as jinger and the church she now attends, i am of mixed feelings. i have participated in a study group using one of the pastors books and found it to be very helpful. that said, i dont know a lot about their particular church. so, is she still in a cultish place? i truly dont know.

[ginger90]

[jcbrown]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

I can't get mad about Medocino Farms as a lunch choice. They have some tasty stuff.