The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Churchhoney]

45 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

 It is surely obvious at this point that far too many people know who the Duggars and Vuolos really are and will speak out immediately against any effort to sanitize them.

Best news I've heard in weeks. ☺️

[Ohiopirate02]

38 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Jess and Cody from BB19/The Amazing Race have one for their infant daughter. Mind you Cody is a reprehensible POS that would fit in with the Duggars and Jess is thirsty for any crumb of fame after moving away from LA.

I think some of the Real Housewives have them too. I used to adore Kandi until she set up an IG for her newborn son. Ugh. 

I do see the logic of setting up your infant's social media accounts if you are a celebrity in any capacity.  They do need to get the name locked down before some "fan" creates an account.  And then use it the bare minimum to keep the account current or whatever the term in social media parlance.  Posting on it all the time is going too far, but there are reasons why you would do it.  

[PikaScrewChu]

56 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do see the logic of setting up your infant's social media accounts if you are a celebrity in any capacity.  They do need to get the name locked down before some "fan" creates an account.  And then use it the bare minimum to keep the account current or whatever the term in social media parlance.  Posting on it all the time is going too far, but there are reasons why you would do it.  

Oh there are totally reasons for it and I understand why someone like Kandi does it for her kids. Kandi Burruss is more than a reality TV personality. She is actually a bona fide minor celebrity. I don't like that the IG accounts are public though. It feels very exploitative to have their entire life documented ASAP. 

It's D-list reality stars selling out their kids for click$ that get me though. Your 15 minutes is up and your kid is not a prop or an influencer. Thank u, next. 

(Do I say that louder for the Duggars in the back?)

[Sew Sumi]

Just saw some screenshots. Jinger (and Jeremy) have been scrubbed from the Minkoff event. Minkoff says they will still have the Toys for Tots drive. Jinger deleted the Minkoff pic from her feed.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[SMama]

Getting dissed by a Scientologist does not bode well for their influencer dreams. Too bad neither will understand that it is about their horrific beliefs.  I wonder if Jeremy will publicly whine about Christian persecution. It would be wonderful if they keep getting dropped or better, not hired at all.

[lascuba]

2 minutes ago, SMama said:

Getting dissed by a Scientologist does not bode well for their influencer dreams. Too bad neither will understand that it is about their horrific beliefs.  I wonder if Jeremy will publicly whine about Christian persecution. It would be wonderful if they keep getting dropped or better, not hired at all.

Expect a black and white photo of Jinger and Jeremy looking sad/thoughtful and a passive aggressive post about loving everyone and respecting beliefs.

[Sew Sumi]

It could have been Jinger's side that canceled Minkoff after the fonut debacle. It's hard to tell who who dumped whom in this instance. The Minkoff post just said that they were no longer appearing.

[Churchhoney]

31 minutes ago, SMama said:

Getting dissed by a Scientologist does not bode well for their influencer dreams. Too bad neither will understand that it is about their horrific beliefs.  I wonder if Jeremy will publicly whine about Christian persecution. It would be wonderful if they keep getting dropped or better, not hired at all.

Yeah, I wonder how they'll respond. Jinger, in her capacity as a Duggar, hasn't really done well with brands so far -- the organic grocery dropped her and other Duggars quite a while ago, after a very brief fling. And Skillshare picked Jinger up briefly -- but that didn't seem to go anywhere, although I wonder whether that was dropped mainly because her followers weren't buying anything from Skillshare because they don't really aspire to be photographers like Jingle. 

The Calvinist press and the European suit emporium seem to be sort of long-term deals for Jer. But it makes perfect sense for the Calvinists. And the European company probably has few customers who know or care anything about Duggars or The Masters Seminary or whatever. 

They're obviously trying hard now to move on from free one-off lunches and cups of fancy caffeine at local restaurants to bigger arrangements like having your own donut flavor at a small chain. But you need to work with companies where the branding matches and with which you share values. Otherwise, nothing longer-term than a free lunch will work. ....

I suppose they've naively assumed that living in LA and wearing shorts mean your values align with those of other shorts-wearers around you. But now they're seeing that's not so  -- especially when you're not an influencer who just loves desserts and is a bit of a dessert connoisseur but you're a "celebrity" influencer who's famous because of your unusual values. Time for a new plan. 

I wonder what kind of dumb-ass publicist took them on without carefully thinking through how you engineer partnerships for people whose beliefs are not just way out of the mainstream but are considered rotten by many people, particularly in the area in which they live. .... And whether they shared a publicist with the bakery.......who then hooked up a couple of his clients without thinking about the values and brands of either.....

Edited December 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

5 minutes ago, SMama said:

I wonder if Jeremy will publicly whine about Christian persecution.

If he does, he’s poisoning the brand even worse. There aren’t many businesses that cater only to hardcore fundies and most businesses in general are disinclined to purposely alienate customers. The hateful tenets may have slid under the radar of the other LA places they’ve grifted, but if he makes a big deal out of this, it’s out there.

As we’ve all said, branding themselves as Fundie Hipsters is oxymoronic, at best. They’ve done a pretty good job of hiding their affiliations and what RFP does at the seminary behind pretty Prop photos, but this was going to happen eventually. 

The internet giveth and the internet taketh away...

[Churchhoney]

Why do I picture Jeremy flailing around trying to find anything that'll eventually liberate him from having to act like a serious seminarian? 

....And I feel like harping again on this -- They're both lucky Jingle had to take down her photo with the Rebecca Minkoff bag.....

Because if Jer does have to continue down the seminarian road, who wants to see their future pastor's wife using her "influence" to urge people to attend an event whose main purpose is tempting them to buy designer goods at a 20 percent discount?

I don't care how social-media-positive people are. I think very few people want their pastors and pastors' wives -- who are very influential in the lives of a congregation -- to have "using my image to shill expensive goods" as their profession, or avocation, or whatever.  I still think that's completely unsuitable and that pretty much everyone, even Internet natives, would feel that way if it came right down to it. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[emma675]

I totally applaud removing Jinger from the event, given their hateful views. I have no doubt that she and Jeremy will consider themselves persecuted Christians and will not learn a thing from all of this.

I'm also going to put some of the blame on Fonuts for working with them in the first place. Yes, they have an agency who is supposed to be vetting these things for them, but any business person worth their salt still takes 15 seconds to Google anyone they are considering partnering with. I work at a large financial group and we have several agencies who help us with these kinds of things, yet we still do our own internal audits, as well. It doesn't matter if you are a mom and pop shop or a global business, you check. It's just common sense nowadays. 

[Snow Fairy]

3 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Jess and Cody from BB19/The Amazing Race have one for their infant daughter. Mind you Cody is a reprehensible POS that would fit in with the Duggars and Jess is thirsty for any crumb of fame after moving away from LA.

I think some of the Real Housewives have them too. I used to adore Kandi until she set up an IG for her newborn son. Ugh. 

I came across a profile for Shawn Johnson's daughter. Posts since she wasn't even born

[Lunera]

The publicist is working overtime to cover up the Duggar in Jinger but forgets who her followers are. She may now look like a sophisticated, wealthy and well dressed woman but those type of women aren't her followers. Their "wealth" is grifted and her fame comes from the Duggar name. She would do much better in Texas shilling companies like Shitrus and Lemon and Jeremy needs to give up on his little dream of becoming MacArthur's next top model. 

Minkoff's website says Jinger wouldn't be attending due to personal issues, I guess she was the one who called it off.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Lunera
Spelling

[Oldernowiser]

7 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Minkoff's website says Jinger wouldn't be attending due to personal issues, I guess she was the one that called it of.

Not necessarily? It’s a way for both sides to save face, IMO...

8 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Jeremy needs to give up on his little dream of becoming MacArthur's next top model. 

I love this so very, very much....

[Temperance]

I guess it's great that Jinger lost this opportunity due to her family connections. It does seem hypocritical if Rebecca Minkoff called off the event due to Jinger's family connections. Rebecca Minkoff is still a scientologist and from a family that has played a big role in scientology. Her father is Dr. David Minkoff. I posted that before, but I'm not too familar with scientology and I was having trouble explaining Dr. David's role in the organization. I don't quite understand what happened to Lisa McPherson or how she died. What I do know is that Minkoff is not just a mere member; he's high up in the cult. He allegedly did shady things for scientology and that's why his license to practice medicine was revoked. 

Jinger and Rebecca Minkoff both come from cults and were raised in families in cults. Neither one of them has separated enough from the group that I no longer associate them with their respective groups. 

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Why do I picture Jeremy flailing around trying to find anything that'll eventually liberate him from having to act like a serious seminarian? 

....And I feel like harping again on this -- They're both lucky Jingle had to take down her photo with the Rebecca Minkoff bag.....

Because if Jer does have to continue down the seminarian road, who wants to see their future pastor's wife using her "influence" to urge people to attend an event whose main purpose is tempting them to buy designer goods at a 20 percent discount?

I don't care how social-media-positive people are. I think very few people want their pastors and pastors' wives -- who are very influential in the lives of a congregation -- to have "using my image to shill expensive goods" as their profession, or avocation, or whatever.  I still think that's completely unsuitable and that pretty much everyone, even Internet natives, would feel that way if it came right down to it. 

He's also lucky, because I predict eventually the truth will leak out about scientology and Rebecca Minkoff and her family.  It's not even a particularly Christian group (different ideology) and Jer's core audience would excuse it more if it were Christian.  I think most people are slowly coming to have an unfavorable opinion of scientology. 

[lilwhitelion]

Jeremy has removed the orgasmic post on his IG for the Earl Grey fonut.

[Sew Sumi]

3 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Jeremy has removed the orgasmic post on his IG for the Earl Grey fonut.

No worries, the internet is forever, and all the fonuts posts are on this thread. 😀

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Why do I picture Jeremy flailing around trying to find anything that'll eventually liberate him from having to act like a serious seminarian? 

Jeremy strikes me as a more dressed up version of Dullard, although I question Jeremy's sincerity to Christianity. He seems about as aimless as the rest of his wife's family. He just happened to get lucky scoring Jinger and then becoming MacArthur's golden child. Otherwise he'd probably still be hanging out in his bachelor pad with a bunch of books. 

I truly believe Jeremy would "sell out" for a reasonable amount of money and fame. 

That being said, don't most people know about $cientology and wouldn't most of the Duggar fan base denounce it? I mean, I remember the uproar over the Websters and Halloween. Surely $cientology would be an even bigger uproar?

[Sew Sumi]

I have to wonder if someone DMed Jinger with the skinny on the Minkoffs, and that's what caused the cancellation? Of course, Minkoff could have also canceled Jinger for the same reason that fonuts did. This one could have gone either way, really.

[Oldernowiser]

You know things are out of control when your family’s belief system is too oddball for Scientologists...

[Churchhoney]

17 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I have to wonder if someone DMed Jinger with the skinny on the Minkoffs, and that's what caused the cancellation? Of course, Minkoff could have also canceled Jinger for the same reason that fonuts did. This one could have gone either way, really.

I picture simultaneous emails going in both directions. 😁

[Temperance]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I picture simultaneous emails going in both directions. 😁

$cientology is very focused on their image. It's very possible that the higher-ups got a whiff of public disapproval for Jinger's involvement and told Rebecca Minkoff to cancel. They try to avoid negative publicity at all costs. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Temperance said:

I guess it's great that Jinger lost this opportunity due to her family connections. I

Jinger didn't lose the gig due to her family connections.  She lost it due to the hateful beliefs that she apparently espouses since she certainly seems quite supportive of her husband who has personally spoken out online against civil rights for gay people as well as attended a seminary run by a guy who is a misogynist.  A guy whose a** Jeremy kisses at every opportunity and about whom he has never spoken a single word of disagreement.  I would presume that Fonuts contacted Jinger via her representatives, told her what they'd learned of her personal beliefs and asked if it was true. When she admitted the truth, she was out.  Just because Jinger hasn't publicly expressed her beliefs doesn't mean that she doesn't agree completely with her husband/headship.  Let's face it, if Jinger didn't let Jeremy run the show and nod in agreement at every word out of his mouth; the marriage would be over.

These businesses want to promote their products; they have no desire whatsoever to have their customers distracted by the hateful rhetoric spewed by their spokespeople.

Edited December 5, 2019 by doodlebug

[Churchhoney]

I think the Vuolos, the Minkoff stores and the Fonuts people have all learned something important: Don't just hand the car keys to your publicist. He/she may drive you over a cliff. 😁

Edited December 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[xwordfanatik]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

No more cruel and unprofessional than if they'd used someone with hateful views to represent their company, completely alienating a large portion of their customer base..  And, IMO, it is far more cruel and unprofessional of Jinger and Jeremy to promote themselves and try to make money while hiding their views, that women are not as capable as men and that gay people do not deserve the rights that other citizens enjoy.  Free speech doesn't give one the right to not be judged on one's views and not be called out if those views are prejudiced and hateful.  Jinger and Jeremy need to own who they are and what they believe and accept the consequences for their ugly beliefs.

I wonder just how deeply their agency delved into Jinger and Jeremy before agreeing to represent them.  A simple Google search should've turned up plenty of information about them including the name of the seminary where Jeremy purports to study and what sort of beliefs are espoused there.  They signed them up before finding out who they really were and then tried to sell them as mainstream family-oriented Christians.  They are not mainstream, they're part of a small, but vocal, fringe group and their management needs to keep them in their very narrow lane.  It is surely obvious at this point that far too many people know who the Duggars and Vuolos really are and will speak out immediately against any effort to sanitize them.

I am honored to give the 25th like to this post. ❤️

[Sew Sumi]

28 minutes ago, Temperance said:

$cientology is very focused on their image. It's very possible that the higher-ups got a whiff of public disapproval for Jinger's involvement and told Rebecca Minkoff to cancel. They try to avoid negative publicity at all costs. 

Oh, I'm sure that Miscavige has a Sea Org member dedicated to watching over the Minkoff company's business dealings. That person could very well have told Minkoff to back off. 

That's kind of convoluted, though. Easier to believe that Jinger discovered $cientology and realized that she had to wash her hair Sunday evening.

[Oldernowiser]

There’s one other possibility...that the old white boys who currently own RFP got wind of Jinger’s gig and tightened up on RFP’s leash?

[BigBingerBro]

Or, maybe RFP got miffed that fronuts pulled the plug he decided to pull the plug on the entire thing....

[Oldernowiser]

8 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Or, maybe RFP got miffed that fronuts pulled the plug he decided to pull the plug on the entire thing....

That’s possible, but it’s hard for me to picture RFP turning down ANY influencer gig, let alone one associated with an upscale brand.

He’s probably shedding tears into his silk pocket Rembrandt (85 €) as we speak... 

[Churchhoney]

Yet another possibility -- Somebody from the Minkoff stores finally realized how badly the Duggars' and The Masters' Seminary's "women must not be in charge of anything" mantra clashed with their longtime PR initiative that celebrates and encourages women executives and other female leaders .... and said "let's call the whole thing off" on that account. ...

That's something they probably use to take the spotlight off RM's cult background -- and connect with women who need a lot of work-and-going-out clothes and can afford them....That'd make it a bad idea to have a party hosted by strong proponents of the "keep 'em in the kitchen" philosophy. 

There are so many ways in which these three parties are a staggering mismatch that the publicists who put it together must have been drinking heavily when they thought it up. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

There’s zero possibility that Mrs. RFP was going to that gig without RFP and Prop, both dressed to the nines. That may have been where the MacArthur dots got connected...

[Sew Sumi]

Jeremy was named in Minkoff's post. So yeah, Jinger was the initial draw what with the fonut and all, but he was going to be right there. 

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

I agree the business should have vetted Jingle...but it’s really partly due to the Duggars bullshitting the public via TLC for all these years. The hateful, draconian parts of their faith were covered over with a thick layer of supposedly wholesome fun family values. Now RFP and by extension Jinger are doing the same thing. 

I am glad they fired whatever marketing company hooked them up with Jinger. A big part of this is on them, too.

This is true, but also? People have got to stop being so disingenuous. Because for all the bullshitting the Duggars do, they don't hide the fact that they are evangelical Christians, and that right there tells anyone who's paid the least bit of attention to the world over the past 20+ years what they need to know. It's ridiculous that people need to hear them say, "I think gay people are going to hell," in order to know that about them.

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

There’s one other possibility...that the old white boys who currently own RFP got wind of Jinger’s gig and tightened up on RFP’s leash?

I think that kind of gig is something the old boys would approve of, because it's not blatantly liberal and is a good way to infiltrate the mainstream.

[PikaScrewChu]

34 minutes ago, lascuba said:

This is true, but also? People have got to stop being so disingenuous. Because for all the bullshitting the Duggars do, they don't hide the fact that they are evangelical Christians, and that right there tells anyone who's paid the least bit of attention to the world over the past 20+ years what they need to know. It's ridiculous that people need to hear them say, "I think gay people are going to hell," in order to know that about them.

I hang around a fairly liberal crowd. Quite a few people only knew the Duggars as those Christians who have a bunch of kids. Some even follow them on IG and not as a hate follow. Having to explain Jessa's belief system to my Jewish classmates was a good ol' time. 

There was a post somewhere on Am I the Asshole? about if the OP was an asshole for assuming people have basic knowledge about certain things. I think a lot of people here take for granted that the public at large knows exactly what evangelical Christianity is and what it entails. A lot of people truly don't know and you have to spell out exactly what it means.

It doesn't help TLC has put a shiny coat of paint on the Duggars to make them more palatable to a wider audience. Even people who disagree with their beliefs were watching 19K&C and following them on IG because "they can't be that bad". If TLC had portrayed them as is, well we wouldn't be discussing them on this forum. They wouldn't have gotten very far. 

[ouinason]

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, ouinason said:

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

Agreed. I know evangelicals who are gay-friendly. I even know some evangelicals who are gay. 

[Absolom]

Evangelical gets conflated with fundie and ultraconservative a lot.

[Sew Sumi]

I think evangelical and fundamentalist are being used interchangeably, when they are two different belief structures. Yes, there is a lot of overlap, but fundies are more hardcore than evangelicals. Jinger was raised IFB, and even though she's now non-denominational, there is nothing to indicate that her core beliefs have changed. She's always been a follower, and we know what her headship believes.

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

She's always been a follower, and we know what her headship believes.

Follow the money and see what you can get for free?

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, ouinason said:

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

And, there are plenty of Christians, including the Pope, who think that even people who don't believe in Jesus can go to heaven. 

[latetotheparty]

5 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

My dog has a Facebook account, where “she” posts about things like eating Mini Mistake’s sandwiches right out of her hand and how hurt she was when the vet told her she was morbidly obese. She has almost as many friends as I do.

I’m not sure it’s fair to say Jeremy and Jinger hid their beliefs. I mean, I’m sure that Jinger didn’t go to the fonut people and say “I think gay people are all going to burn in hell,” but her beliefs are public record and since we have the Internet people can find them pretty quickly just by googling her name. I don’t have a problem with the company cancelling their arrangement — when your beliefs are abhorrent that’s the way the fonut crumbles, I guess — but I don’t think their failure to realize the problem sooner was due to any duplicity on Jinger’s part.

The fundamental problem Jeremy and Jinger are going to have when trying to advance their social media careers is that they’re just in the wrong place. I could see them getting brand endorsement assignments in the south or somewhere where more people share their beliefs, but California’s already full of influencers and doesn’t really have a market for the Jeremy and Jingers of the world. 

I would totally follow your dog. 

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I hang around a fairly liberal crowd. Quite a few people only knew the Duggars as those Christians who have a bunch of kids. Some even follow them on IG and not as a hate follow. Having to explain Jessa's belief system to my Jewish classmates was a good ol' time. 

There was a post somewhere on Am I the Asshole? about if the OP was an asshole for assuming people have basic knowledge about certain things. I think a lot of people here take for granted that the public at large knows exactly what evangelical Christianity is and what it entails. A lot of people truly don't know and you have to spell out exactly what it means.

It doesn't help TLC has put a shiny coat of paint on the Duggars to make them more palatable to a wider audience. Even people who disagree with their beliefs were watching 19K&C and following them on IG because "they can't be that bad". If TLC had portrayed them as is, well we wouldn't be discussing them on this forum. They wouldn't have gotten very far. 

I'm trying not to break any rules by going into politics, but...if a liberal who pays the least amount of attention to politics is surprised by what religious Christians like the Duggars believe, then they are being willfully naive.

9 hours ago, ouinason said:

Being an "Evangelical Christian" does not mean you are a bigot, or hate women in power.  These guys do, but that's not something you wanna make a blanket statement about.  That's like saying all Christians think "the gays" are going to hell.  We don't, actually, we think that "the gays" who don't believe in Jesus are.  

9 hours ago, Zella said:

Agreed. I know evangelicals who are gay-friendly. I even know some evangelicals who are gay. 

I might be conflating evangelical and fundamentalism, but the fact remains that gay friendly conservative Christians are in the minority and suffering some major cognitive dissonance.

[queenanne]

12 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I hang around a fairly liberal crowd. Quite a few people only knew the Duggars as those Christians who have a bunch of kids. Some even follow them on IG and not as a hate follow. Having to explain Jessa's belief system to my Jewish classmates was a good ol' time. 

There was a post somewhere on Am I the Asshole? about if the OP was an asshole for assuming people have basic knowledge about certain things. I think a lot of people here take for granted that the public at large knows exactly what evangelical Christianity is and what it entails. A lot of people truly don't know and you have to spell out exactly what it means.

It doesn't help TLC has put a shiny coat of paint on the Duggars to make them more palatable to a wider audience. Even people who disagree with their beliefs were watching 19K&C and following them on IG because "they can't be that bad". If TLC had portrayed them as is, well we wouldn't be discussing them on this forum. They wouldn't have gotten very far. 

The "basic knowledge about fundamentalists" category is certainly A Thing.  I'm frequently surprised by things that some people don't know are unsurprising about the Duggars (no "devil's food cake" - I legit have a family member who once told another family member that she should not buy "Heluva Good" brand cheese - no gambling for coin tosses or even reference to "luck" - be in church every time the doors are open - etc., etc.); and also much of the "Christianese" that people describe as "weird" (for clarification, I'm not surprised that people in general are surprised at the definitions of the Christianese; I'm merely surprised they've never heard the phrasings before).  (Aside: I've also been meaning to point out for the record, that our local LGBTQ congresscritter invited people recently to an LGBTQ meeting for "fellowship", and it was all I could do to avoid rolling on the ground when I encountered that flyer).

[ouinason]

That bit about not having to believe in Jesus to go to heaven made my brain hurt.  Like, that's the literal definition of being a christian.  Anyway, my general point was that, being christian is not hand in hand with hate, and there doesn't have to be cognitive dissonance for that to be true. 

Google will tell you that Duggars are not friends for the minorities though, that is quite obvious.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, ouinason said:

That bit about not having to believe in Jesus to go to heaven made my brain hurt.  Like, that's the literal definition of being a christian.  Anyway, my general point was that, being christian is not hand in hand with hate, and there doesn't have to be cognitive dissonance for that to be true. 

Google will tell you that Duggars are not friends for the minorities though, that is quite obvious.

I think the Pope and other Christians who believe that the way to heaven for them is through Jesus are simply saying that, it is not for them to judge, and that God decides who gets into heaven, not them.

How else to understand why God would make such a demand and then allow billions and billions of people to be born into the world into places where they will never hear about Jesus, where there are no Christians, where the Bible is unknown?  Are we to believe that, somehow, because we were born to Christian parents in a predominantly Christian society, that we are somehow better than those who do not have that background?  I refuse to believe in a God who would be so arbitrary and cruel as to exclude huge hunks of humanity from heaven for something over which they have no control.

[PikaScrewChu]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

I'm trying not to break any rules by going into politics, but...if a liberal who pays the least amount of attention to politics is surprised by what religious Christians like the Duggars believe, then they are being willfully naive.

Or it's quite possible they've never been exposed to it? You don't see the JRods and Michelle Duggars of this world in my neck of the woods. Where I grew up? Sure. But here? Nah. I will be brutally honest, the people who I have encountered that are not Christian don't have the foggiest idea of what this all means. Is it problematic? That's a discussion for a different thread. But it's really presumptuous to assume people know. This sort of knowledge can only be gained by seeking it out themselves. 

14 minutes ago, queenanne said:

The "basic knowledge about fundamentalists" category is certainly A Thing.  I'm frequently surprised by things that some people don't know are unsurprising about the Duggars (no "devil's food cake" - I legit have a family member who once told another family member that she should not buy "Heluva Good" brand cheese - no gambling for coin tosses or even reference to "luck" - be in church every time the doors are open - etc., etc.); and also much of the "Christianese" that people describe as "weird" (for clarification, I'm not surprised that people in general are surprised at the definitions of the Christianese; I'm merely surprised they've never heard the phrasings before).  (Aside: I've also been meaning to point out for the record, that our local LGBTQ congresscritter invited people recently to an LGBTQ meeting for "fellowship", and it was all I could do to avoid rolling on the ground when I encountered that flyer).

Do you want to know how many times I got sent that frigging "angel pocket eggs" thing on Facebook with people asking if it was real? I wanted to scream. 

I actually didn't understand why yoga wasn't allowed in a fair amount of Christian circles until I started reading the theology the Yoga Alliance has in their curriculum for teachers. Then it clicked. No one could adequately explain to me why it wasn't allowed until I did the research myself. 

It's not even being willfully naive. The world works on "using your words" now. Short of saying it straight out, people are going to take things at face value. Which is why the Vuolos are the most dangerous type of fundies. They never explicitly say what they mean but they are just like us regular folk! Look at Jinger in pants. Felicity isn't constrained by skirts only. They only have one kid rather than parading a litter down the street! Jeremy says wine is ok. They're just like us!

I'd argue that most of the Duggar offspring and married-ins are actually halfway decent at appealing to a mainstream audience. The Vuolos are just trying the hardest.

If we want to make sure these people slink back into their hole, it's time those of us with the knowledge stand up to the companies they partner with. Which is what happened with Fonuts.

[BitterApple]

10 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

The fundamental problem Jeremy and Jinger are going to have when trying to advance their social media careers is that they’re just in the wrong place. I could see them getting brand endorsement assignments in the south or somewhere where more people share their beliefs, but California’s already full of influencers and doesn’t really have a market for the Jeremy and Jingers of the world. 

I couldn't agree more. SoCal is full of pretty people looking for fame and fortune. Jinger and Jeremy don't really stand out in any aspect, and their belief system isn't widely embraced in that area. I imagine young Christian women in L.A. would be more likely to mold themselves after hot-to-trot Gabby than cute-but-bland Jinger. 

As for Jeremy, he's between a rock and a hard place. He can't stray from MacArthur, because otherwise it's bye-bye subsidized lifestyle, but his position on gays and women guarantees he'll never make it big outside his niche. What's a grifter to do?

[TresGatos]

1 hour ago, ouinason said:

That bit about not having to believe in Jesus to go to heaven made my brain hurt.  Like, that's the literal definition of being a christian.  Anyway, my general point was that, being christian is not hand in hand with hate, and there doesn't have to be cognitive dissonance for that to be true. 

Google will tell you that Duggars are not friends for the minorities though, that is quite obvious.

I remember my dad talking about how some guys where he worked giving him a hard time about being a Roman Catholic because, allegedly, Catholics believed that only Catholics would go to Heaven. My dad told them that he was educated in Catholic schools and he was always taught that even if you were a native living in deepest, darkest Africa who had never heard the name Jesus Christ if you lived your life being the best person you could be then you had as good a chance of getting into Heaven as anybody else (of course most of us would go straight to Purgatory but that's another story) while Jeremy & co. believes that Roman Catholics, no matter how well you have lived your life, are doomed to Hell.

Edited December 6, 2019 by TresGatos
Confused Purgutory with Limbo - I am a very out-of-practice Catholic).

[JennyMominFL]

13 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I couldn't agree more. SoCal is full of pretty people looking for fame and fortune. Jinger and Jeremy don't really stand out in any aspect, and their belief system isn't widely embraced in that area. I imagine young Christian women in L.A. would be more likely to mold themselves after hot-to-trot Gabby than cute-but-bland Jinger. 

As for Jeremy, he's between a rock and a hard place. He can't stray from MacArthur, because otherwise it's bye-bye subsidized lifestyle, but his position on gays and women guarantees he'll never make it big outside his niche. What's a grifter to do?

And yet, I was , in the 90s , very briefly a part of a very Duggar like Fundie group. There was a large community there. Luckily I came to my senses quickly

[Oldernowiser]

Anyone else think it’s somewhat peculiar that MacArthur’s headquarters are in Southern California, of all places? Given what he preaches, he is swimming upstream at best.