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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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ariel

ariel

(edited)
17 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

 

They can offer music education without trying to "convert" young children.

Many of these children are in a very vulnerable situation in their lives and might be the easiest to convert.  I agree, just offer them the music education with no strings attached.  A radon act of kindness can go a long way.

Edited by ariel
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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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Jellybeans

Jellybeans

(edited)

I am not religious at all, something I have said before.  

That said, I see nothing wrong with this- I learned long ago from my Grandmother that nothing in life is free and that most things come with strings attached.  Complaining about it changes nothing.  

The kids can avail themselves of music lessons or not.  It is a choice.  So what if a little Jesus is thrown in.  I learned about him as a kid too and it sure didn’t hurt me. 

Vacation Bible School was lots of fun, we went swimming and fishing between bible verses.  I thought it a fair trade-off at the time.  LOL.

And, it is ok to have religion in your life.  Especially if you are vulnerable.   It is better than drugs...

Edited by Jellybeans
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ariel

ariel

(edited)

Regarding "a radon act of kindness", the Duggars & the adjacents don't seem to get that concept.  Just do something nice for someone especially when the cameras are off. No need to post it to social media.  Just quietly do a good thing for someone in need & don't exspect something (conversion) in return.

Edited by ariel
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Jellybeans

Jellybeans

3 minutes ago, ariel said:

If your are at a vulnerable place in your life, is religion or drugs your only choice?  I don't think so.

I did not say that.  It is nice to have options.  It is a choice.  Children are offered choices in life.  You can take music lessons but there is a price.  Just like me, I got to go fishing and swimming but I had to learn a few few bible verses.  So what?  I had fun.

Why should it bother grownups if children make choices for themselves?  And yes, children also have other choices. Drugs, alcohol, books, and God. Nothing wrong with books and God. 

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Temperance

Temperance

11 minutes ago, ariel said:

I find a lot wrong with Gothard's books & his version of God.

Is this program affliated with Gothard?  I think it's just Christian.

A friend of mine went to religious basketball camp. He got Saved! which didn't make his mom happy. He went back to being non-religious later. He's been gone for over 10 years now.  

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ariel

ariel

1 minute ago, Temperance said:

Is this program affliated with Gothard?  I think it's just Christian.

A friend of mine went to religious basketball camp. He got Saved! which didn't make his mom happy. He went back to being non-religious later. He's been gone for over 10 years now.  

 

1 minute ago, Temperance said:

Is this program affliated with Gothard?  I think it's just Christian.

 

A certain "flavor" of Christians that want to convert those evil Catholics & main stream Protestants.

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ChiCricket

ChiCricket

(edited)
13 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Is this program affliated with Gothard?  I think it's just Christian.

A friend of mine went to religious basketball camp. He got Saved! which didn't make his mom happy. He went back to being non-religious later. He's been gone for over 10 years now.  

I used to go to Awana when I was a kid. Very Christian based, but the preaching just went right over my head and I just enjoyed all the games and crafts. I'm sure now that my parents sent us because it was free (my parents had 7 kids) and they had a bus that would pick up and deliver us to our houses, and it gave our parents a break from us! I did learn how to draw a star at Christmas time, which I remember to this day ;-)

  But it didn't seem like Duggar "you're going to hell" kind of preaching. I don't think that kind of doom and gloom preaching works on kids unless it's reinforced at home.

Well, it didn't work on *me*, but I've always been hard headed..

Edited by ChiCricket
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

For me it depends on how and what they're exposed to. An introduction into Christianity would be okay, but not if its fear based. Like many posters have said, these kids are vulnerable and they don't need the added stress of fearing this abstract place called hell, which might bring up images of jail. They don't need to lay in bed at night wondering if one of their sins put their parents in jail. Or wake up in the morning after a nocturnal emission and think they masturbated. What if they get saved and their parents aren't, what does that mean to them? 

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EVS

EVS

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

For me it depends on how and what they're exposed to. An introduction into Christianity would be okay, but not if its fear based. Like many posters have said, these kids are vulnerable and they don't need the added stress of fearing this abstract place called hell, which might bring up images of jail. They don't need to lay in bed at night wondering if one of their sins put their parents in jail. Or wake up in the morning after a nocturnal emission and think they masturbated. What if they get saved and their parents aren't, what does that mean to them? 

I agree with this, especially with the younger children. (I looked up the application online and the program is for ages 6-17. ) 

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

2 hours ago, ariel said:

I find a lot wrong with Gothard's books & his version of God.

Well, it's all a matter of being able to have some sense of balance. And, hopefully, not too addictive of a personality. There's nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation either, and there are apparently quite a lot of people who even manage to indulge in various drugs without becoming addicted or suffering undue problems as as result. Religion as a source of hope and comfort may be fine as well, but for those who let religion become the most important facet of their lives, I think it can become just as big of a dependency issue as anything else.

Books? Who's to say whether there are any possible repercussions from too passionate a fondness for books? Not sure I can see any offhand, aside from maybe a tad of social awkwardness, but that can have its own offbeat brand of charm. :)

Basically, a personality prone to dependency issues is vulnerable to pretty much anything which offers a sense of solace.

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ariel

ariel

(edited)
4 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Well, it's all a matter of being able to have some sense of balance. And, hopefully, not too addictive of a personality. There's nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation either, and there are apparently quite a lot of people who even manage to indulge in various drugs without becoming addicted or suffering undue problems as as result. Religion as a source of hope and comfort may be fine as well, but for those who let religion become the most important facet of their lives, I think it can become just as big of a dependency issue as anything else.

Books? Who's to say whether there are any possible repercussions from too passionate a fondness for books? Not sure I can see any offhand, aside from maybe a tad of social awkwardness, but that can have its own offbeat brand of charm. :)

Basically, a personality prone to dependency issues is vulnerable to pretty much anything which offers a sense of solace.

I'm not sure what your post has to do with mine?  Perhaps in error you responded to me and not another person's post?  If so, that's ok, we all have our off nights.

Edited by ariel
Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

7 hours ago, ariel said:

I'm not sure what your post has to do with mine?  Perhaps in error you responded to me and not another person's post?  If so, that's ok, we all have our off nights.

It probably didn't have  much to do with that specific post, but the three or four between you and Jellybeans right before, talking about what people might be vulnerable to when they are at a low place in their lives. I just used your post to respond to as it was the last in that short string, and I figured they were all close enough in time to be linked together as part of the same conversation, if that makes sense. Sorry if that made it confusing.

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magpye29

magpye29

On 10/12/2017 at 8:53 AM, Normades said:

I'm wondering how fundamentalists reconcile kilts as menswear? We all know how hung up they are on gender identity and clothing.  Are they as ignorant and rude as with everything else and call them men in skirts and consider it an abomination??

Jesus didn't wear pants.

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queenanne

queenanne

On 10/13/2017 at 6:51 PM, GeeGolly said:

For me it depends on how and what they're exposed to. An introduction into Christianity would be okay, but not if its fear based. Like many posters have said, these kids are vulnerable and they don't need the added stress of fearing this abstract place called hell, which might bring up images of jail. They don't need to lay in bed at night wondering if one of their sins put their parents in jail. Or wake up in the morning after a nocturnal emission and think they masturbated. What if they get saved and their parents aren't, what does that mean to them? 

I think it could be argued that the children of individuals in jail, often don't have cuddly missable parents.  Which I grant doesn't mean that they don't miss said parents, but it's not like "I am saved and my parents aren't", is the only issue these kids do or have to worry about.  They can worry about whether they'll get enough food, or whether their parents are going to die of an illegal lifestyle or drugs.  They can worry about being stuck in sole care of their siblings while their parents pursue said criminal lives (Michelle and JB may not be particularly useful, but you can at least say they are there and you don't have to put out an APB on them).   Some kids have shown an interest in Christianity and it might have been some help to them, but their parents were dead set against it, like @Temperance's friend; I've seen more than one story about people who's parents' responses were things like "Hey, we're Catholic; if he/she is so newly interested in religion, s/he can go to Mass."  Problem: Some of these parents themselves were so anti-religion or too lazy or fearful to want to bother with regular Mass themselves, and thus never offered to actually take the minor kids, which made the offer a roadblocking knee-jerk.  

In short, I don't think unilaterally blocking kids from something that may be a life preserver or oasis of comforting structure to them (either music or religion), is definitely the way to go because of any loaded assumption that such religion is only guaranteed to bring problems into the kids' lives.  

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Christina87

Christina87

11 hours ago, magpye29 said:

Jesus didn't wear pants.

I always took it to mean that they should dress like a man or women of their time period. However, there are some problems with that. Women of this time period have been wearing pants for a while! I could see if it was the 1940's where just a few Hollywood women wore pants and considered them cutting edge, but they have been mainstream for decades now! Even in the 1980's most girls could wear jeans to school. I think someone like Cathy dresses very tastefully and modestly, and she wears pants. What is so wrong with that?

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ariel

ariel

(edited)

Psst..... Jesus was born Jewish & died one.  The Duggars & there ilk don't get this. He also didn't have blonde hair & blue eyes.

17 hours ago, magpye29 said:

Jesus didn't wear pants.

 

11 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Wow next you are going to tell me that Jesus wasn't a white man with dark blonde hair!

Edited by ariel
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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

12 minutes ago, ariel said:

Psst Jesus was born Jewish & died one.  The Duggars & there ilk don't get this. He also didn't have blonde hair & blue eyes.

 

Agreed.  The Semitic peoples that lived in the region at that time did not have blond hair or blue eyes, and their descendants are modern day Jews and Arabs. Those having the lighter coloring have it because they intermarried with European and Nordic peoples.  The dominant traits were brown or black eyes, black hair, and olive and darker skin.

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magpye29

magpye29

(edited)
13 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Wow next you are going to tell me that Jesus wasn't a white man with dark blonde hair!

How did you guess?  Honestly, even though there's a picture I love of Jesus where he looks like he just stepped off a fishing boat, I think a lot of people are going to be shocked when they get to Heaven and are confronted with a Jesus who looks very different from how they're convinced he looks.  And I will laugh.

To get this back on track, I'm going to reference a photo a couple of weeks ago where Jeremy was cuddling a stack of books and say that he has very nice hands.  Also, I like the way he looks at Jinger.

Edited by magpye29
didn't see the mod's redirect until after I posted; getting back on topic
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Christina87

Christina87

2 hours ago, magpye29 said:

How did you guess?  Honestly, even though there's a picture I love of Jesus where he looks like he just stepped off a fishing boat, I think a lot of people are going to be shocked when they get to Heaven and are confronted with a Jesus who looks very different from how they're convinced he looks.  And I will laugh.

To get this back on track, I'm going to reference a photo a couple of weeks ago where Jeremy was cuddling a stack of books and say that he has very nice hands.  Also, I like the way he looks at Jinger.

Hahahahaha this made me laugh!!! Even though I intellectually know he isn't white, I have such a hard time picturing anything other than the portrait of him on the wall at the church I grew up in! It will be a shock indeed! ?

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awaken

awaken

2 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

Every time I come to the forum and see this thread has new posts, I have to jump in immediately to make sure Jinger still isn't pregnant. (Although she's already beat every Duggar girl so far....like that's hard. But still.)

Same here!  Although I'm sure one day, the bubble will burst and the big pregnancy announcement day will arrive. 

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kokapetl

kokapetl

1 hour ago, Lunera said:

https://www.inquisitr.com/4556737/jinger-duggars-husband-jeremy-vuolo-compares-lgbt-acceptance-to-a-gun/

Ughhhh, stfu Jermy.

And somehow he, along with all the other anti gay religious leaders, haven’t received bullets to the brain, burned alive at the stake, or sent to the gallows. 

Being ignored and unpopular might feel like a fate worse than death to Jeremy. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
10 minutes ago, sometimesy said:

100% Jeremy Duggar. 

I suppose it's comforting in some way to know that the Duggar adjacents seem to have married into a family whose ideas they firmly embrace. At least we know they weren't actually duped in that way. They're there because they buy the same bullshit.  (well, Jer, for example, may not buy the "have 500 children" ethos -- but that's just because that one would inconvenience him personally; when it comes to the stuff that doesn't inconvenience him personally, he's obviously all in)

And, frankly, I'm pleased that Der and Jer keep saying this stuff publicly. It's obviously what the family believes but they became cagey enough to stop mentioning it publicly because that might have harmed their TeeVee stardom. Now at least the true Duggar philosophy is being made visible thanks to the preaching adjacents. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Maybe it's just me, but given that  they all seem to be pro-gun, the image of a gun to the had of those who he feels should agree with him seems a trifle incongruous...as though maybe that gun is suddenly a force for the devil's side...

"Pro-gun" still always depends on who's holding the gun in the end, though, I think. "Pro-gun" as long as it's my gun you're talking about. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

Just now, Churchhoney said:

"Pro-gun" still always depends on who's holding the gun in the end, though, I think. "Pro-gun" as long as it's my gun you're talking about. 

Yeah, I know..it's just the way it struck me when I first read the headline. Though, because obviously they see the guns as being used for both good and evil, and though they obviously think too many "bad guys" have guns, the guns themselves seem to be seen in a positive light.

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EVS

EVS

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

And somehow he, along with all the other anti gay religious leaders, haven’t received bullets to the brain, burned alive at the stake, or sent to the gallows. 

Being ignored and unpopular might feel like a fate worse than death to Jeremy. 

Unlike gay people who have actually had hate crimes committed against them or even been killed because of who they are. 

Edited by EVS
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RedheadZombie

RedheadZombie

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:15 AM, Zuleikha said:

Unless there's a well concealed dark side--which I never discount--I think it has been a fundie fairy tale. I still haven't stopped being surprised by how happy she looks in all of their pictures! She seemed so dead eyed prior to their courtship. 

I guess time will tell.  I think all the Duggar girls look star struck initially, I guess from all the sex.  I remember Jill being cradled in Derick's lap in public, and Jessa doing a little dominatrix pose of kissing Ben.  It seems that ends with the morning sickness.  I had high hopes for Jill when I saw how openly affectionate she became with Derick.  But all high hopes seem to die with this family.  I'm still holding out for Jinger and Joy, but who knows how it will change when the first child comes.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

3 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

And somehow he, along with all the other anti gay religious leaders, haven’t received bullets to the brain, burned alive at the stake, or sent to the gallows. 

Being ignored and unpopular might feel like a fate worse than death to Jeremy. 

???? @2nd paragraph. Jeremy loves him some attention. 

Waiting for that homophobic, transphobic pastor to be treated the same way the LGBTQ community has been for thousands of years. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

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Why does Jeremy not see the Bible as something that fit with the times and also not necessarily hard and fast truths? Kind of like, "When we know better, we do better".

He walks around with a computer in his pocket because someone said, "We can do better". He has all his teeth because someone said, "We can do better". We refrigerate food because someone said, "We can do better". Children, minorities, etc have rights because someone said, "We can do better".

Maybe these other preachers, pastors, Priests, Rabbis, etc are saying, "We can do better".  

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Chicklet

Chicklet

32 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Why does Jeremy not see the Bible as something that fit with the times and also not necessarily hard and fast truths? Kind of like, "When we know better, we do better".

Because Jesus and shut up. 

The bible never changes despite us all knowing better and if they had to change their world-view, they couldn't be as judgmental and rigid as they are now. And men wouldn't have all the power and we cannot have women in charge.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Why does Jeremy not see the Bible as something that fit with the times and also not necessarily hard and fast truths? Kind of like, "When we know better, we do better".

He walks around with a computer in his pocket because someone said, "We can do better". He has all his teeth because someone said, "We can do better". We refrigerate food because someone said, "We can do better". Children, minorities, etc have rights because someone said, "We can do better".

Maybe these other preachers, pastors, Priests, Rabbis, etc are saying, "We can do better".  

The bible gives Jer and the other Duggar men and Dugg adjacents what they want. Documented evidence that the power behind the whole universe advocates strongly for a 100 -percent male-dominated world. And a world dominated forever and ever hallelujah unto all eternity only by those who share these guys' beliefs. 

It's the only thing that would award them so much power over everybody. So what's not to like??!! 

We're keeping it to the letter! And we're spending every day telling everybody by every means possible that they'd better keep it to the letter too! .... That's the drive behind the Duggarmen's preaching. They're preaching to keep the world they like -- one in which they're in charge. We're gonna ignore the signs that suggest that may not be working out. That "better" of which you speak. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Why does Jeremy not see the Bible as something that fit with the times and also not necessarily hard and fast truths? Kind of like, "When we know better, we do better".

He walks around with a computer in his pocket because someone said, "We can do better". He has all his teeth because someone said, "We can do better". We refrigerate food because someone said, "We can do better". Children, minorities, etc have rights because someone said, "We can do better".

Maybe these other preachers, pastors, Priests, Rabbis, etc are saying, "We can do better".  

His whole schtick is Bible as Evangelical Major. I forget the word, it's close to Expository, but I don't think that's quite it. At any rate, his deal is promoting the bible with translations he prefers. We have seen them with other bibles other than the KJV, so that's something? Eh, no. Hate seems to be hate, no matter what bible HE uses. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
6 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

You know what I'll never understand? Why does he care? People who aren't him believe different things and some of them do different things. This does not affect his life or his faith or his church.

Because at heart he's mainly an arrogant little prick who lives to show off his dominance of and superiority to others? And what makes you more superior than being one of the chosen few who really know the score and have a real in with the Big Guy Upstairs? It'd be no use having that in if you couldn't lord it over others, right? 

I expect he was pretty arrogant on the football field as well ..... Until he let the ball get past him too many times. He must be liking this career better. In sports, he had to accomplish something or get ejected from his employment. As a preacher, if he puffs out his chest and rants a good game he's golden. ... For a while, anyway. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Absolom

Absolom

12 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Good lord, what a nonsensical mess that sermon was. "Postmodernist society?" What does that even mean?

He's using the good current evangelical buzz words.  All the preachers of his type throw a certain vocabulary around.  I'm not certain that even half of them understand what they're saying.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

As an English major, post-modernism isn't that new. Think Beat Generation going forward. I am curious how the Evangelicals define it? Legalization of gay marriage? Summer of Love (that's more Gothard)? 

Anyone want to wade in those waters that increasingly seem to define our Holy Goalie?

It's become a fad word with different groups -- and in different countries -- at different times, it seems.

I think with evangelicals it mostly means the same thing that "situational ethics" meant back in the day. That the hard and fast rules that for thousands of years we knew were right and had come directly from God are being replaced by shifty "humanistic" concepts such as judging the ethics of relationships based on mutual consent and love rather than simply saying - IT"S A WOMAN AND A MAN ONLY!!!! 

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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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