S06.E09: Battle Of The Bastards

[lmsweb]

2 minutes ago, gwhh said:

What house rode to the request during the battle part?

I was wondering the same thing. The remaining party that Davos led looked relatively small, I have to wonder if it was House Mormont that was in reserve? It was hard to tell what House each group of men belonged to, apart from the Wildlings.

[WearyTraveler]

1 minute ago, kieyra said:

Couldn't watch most of it--I'm a full on GOT-PTSD sufferer. I'm glad Ghost was at the Dire Wolf Day Spa, and his was one less gruesome death I had to worry about.

(I'm still PISSED about Summer. And Shaggy Dog.)

Can anyone explain to me how the dothraki got to Mereen so fast? My geography is poor. During the credits I'm usually watching it for the cool clockwork stuff, not the maps. 

They were only a week away two episodes ago.  If you recall, Dany was heading back to Meereen followed by the Khalassar when she stopped and asked Daario how far away they were.  He said about a week.  That's when Drogon showed up and she made her speech.

[Brn2bwild]

34 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

Ok wait a minute, wait a minute....Sansa fed the line to Ramsay at the end about him having starved his dogs for 7 days. Except she rode away from the negotiations BEFORE Ramsay said it. Not sure if I should call that sloppy writing or fanwank that for some reason, of all the conversations they had, that the subject of whether or not Ramsay had fed his dogs this week came up?

I noticed that, too, and fanwanked it that Jon or Davos mentioned it during their planning in the tent later.

[kittykat]

Yeah the travel time for Dany and the Khalasar was far more realistic than any of the other travellers this season.

[Happy Harpy]

The epic, it was delivered. And delivered. And delivered.

I cheered and gasped and giggled and hell-yeah!ed. Loved the contrast between the battle of Meereen in the air and open space, and the battle of Winterfell in the mud and claustrophobic.

My Davos is alive, phew! The "previously" broke my heart, then it broke again when he found the stag. If a look could kill Mel would be already dead (if only). I hope that it won't drive a wedge between him and Jon because noooo! Davos and Tormund is my new favorite friendship. And I might have savagely cheered when Tormund pulled the Rick Grimes on Umber.

I loved Jon. I love when he fights and I love his courage. His confrontation with Ramsay was everything I wanted it to be, the real knight against the coward, and I savagely cheered again when Jon hit Ramsay with his shield. It was even better than pummeling his face.

If Sansa wanted Jon to wait, she should have told him about the Vale . I agree that he chose to fight because he didn't think they could get more/enough men and the situation would only get worse for those he actually had and for Rickon. I understand her need to be listened to, but 1) as she said, she doesn't know anything about battles so that's kind of normal that he didn't think of asking her anything during a war council about this precise subject and 2) I can't say that her advice about Ramsay was concrete enough for someone like Jon. Don't get me wrong, she was right about Ramsay's manipulative ways but he asked for/needed a practical strategy. 

Personally, with her warnings, I expected Ramsay to kill Rickon before the fight and show the body on a cross. So even if he took Sansa's advice in consideration (and I think he did) seeing his brother alive troubled Jon and made him lose his focus because he still had a chance of saving Rickon. Even if it was close to zero. I know he shouldn't have, but Jon wouldn't be Jon to me if he didn't try everything to save someone he loves. And I know it was a mistake, strategically, but I think I would have lost respect for him otherwise.

I wonder if Sansa didn't shut up about the Vale knights because she's on her own quest for personal revenge. She seems very Tully right now, playing right in the hand of Littlecreeper like her aunt and mother used to (before her mother opened her eyes, but too late). I'm not far from thinking that after using LF in order to get rid of Ramsay, she could get rid of him in turn for broking her marriage. What she said to Jon about nobody being able to protect her makes me wonder. It would be interesting if everybody expected Arya to forsake everything for revenge, and in the end it's Sansa who goes on this road.

Poor Rickon. In my headcanon, he and Shireen are now playing with the direwolves under Osha's watchful but fond eye.

Tyrion and Dany, I loved. They make a great team. I loved every single moment in Meereen. Loved the negotiation. Loved Missandei/Grey Worm/Tyrion against the masters while Dany and her babies were getting shit done. Loved the girl power, of course. I understand that Tyrion was unforgiving with Theon for now...but I think they might bond and I'll be very curious to see whether Tyrion's wife and what happened to her at the hands of Ramsay will be mentioned.

Next week looks even more epic. I.can't.wait.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[AGuyToo]

7 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

The filming of Jon was simply mesmerizing.  Too bad it was all dependent on Jon making poor choices and running entirely on emotion

Yes, this was my feeling too. Some of the battle shots were fantastic. I especially like the one where Jon was alone and facing down the cavalry charge, just before his comrades arrived. But my response to the visuals was tainted by the knowledge that he was in this situation because of his own stupidity.

I want to like the Starks but sometimes it's hard.

Edited June 20, 2016 by AGuyToo

[kieyra]

Will also give props that I think this is the best CGI we've had of the dragons so far. I can imagine some long, long hours for the people creating the dragon v warship sequences. 

[TaurusRose]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Ramsay brand dog chow.

I love Dany and Yara sexual tension.

Rickon noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Uh oh Davos knows. You better pray to the Lord of Light Mel.

Tomato tomahto.  Where you see sexual tension I see two accomplished women sizing each other and appreciating what they saw in the other: an ally worthy of respect.

[MarySNJ]

1 minute ago, Alapaki said:

So, after months of speculation, the burning flayed folks on the battlefield were . . . . . no one of consequence?

And the Northern Lord who would change sides?

In the end it was just what it was set up to be on-screen.  Jon going in under-armed, and Littlefinger coming in with reinforcements to save the day.

BTW, they never explained Ramsay's rationale for deciding to meet Jon's army in the open field when it would've made much more sense to defend the attack from within the walls of Winterfell (with, perhaps, the cavalry making a flanking attack once they were engaged.

I think the one flayed man that they panned in on looked like it could have been Roose. 

I just watched the Anatomy of a Scene for the Battle of Winterfell and the whole point was to make the battle scene as realistically close to a medieval battlefield as possible. MMV on whether or not they succeeded.

[Chris24601]

Comment from a friend of mine regarding the magnificent Wun Wun... Some heroes hold the door. Others break it down.

[lmsweb]

Ramsay: My hounds will never harm me.
Sansa: You haven't fed them in 7 days, you said it yourself.

I'm rewatching, and that's the line she said that threw me off. Usually you'd say something like "I heard you told Jon they hadn't been fed in 7 days" or "Jon told me you said they hadn't been fed in 7 days". I can still accept that obviously Jon or Davos or someone told her, it was just odd wording choice, I think.

Edit to add: I just realized I am sounding anal about this. I'm not, usually. But I did do a "whaaa...?" when that happened and was trying to remember if Sansa was still there when he said it. Bottom line is Ramsay got ate by bitches and that was a satisfying end for me.

Edited June 20, 2016 by lmsweb

[MadMouse]

15 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

I was wondering the same thing. The remaining party that Davos led looked relatively small, I have to wonder if it was House Mormont that was in reserve? It was hard to tell what House each group of men belonged to, apart from the Wildlings.

It could have been Hornwoods. I swear I saw their sigil on one of the flags.

[bunnyblue]

God, the battle was so intense and gruesome it was too much for me at times. I don't cringe at slaughter in movies and TV but I actually fast forwarded at some points because the carnage was non-stop. The poor legless soldier crawling over the mountain of men will probably haunt my dreams tonight. I even missed Jon being trampled because I had to look away at some parts. 

I truly was worried for Tormund when he was getting the shit beat out of him by Smalljon. I cheered so loudly when Tormund finally stabbed him to death. It was fitting that Lord Umber got killed by a Wildling. Now I hope Tormund is given the Last Hearth as a reward, so he and Brienne can start their family of ginger giants.

I love that all of Mel's visions came true!! She saw Jon fighting at Winterfell (from a distance I assume), she walked the battlements of WF, and she saw the Bolton banners falling to the ground. She was looking quite smug at the end. Unfortunately for her, it appears the jig is up next week. 

Jon Snow is my love, my king, my everything!!! LOL. Yes he was reckless but 1) he was trying to save his little brother and 2) crucial information was withheld from him. Now my boy needs to surround himself with trusted friends and advisers and prepare for the real war. I hope Bran reaches him before then and together they can device a plan with brains, brawn, and magic that will defeat the Night King.

Poor Rickon. I always liked him and the actor. He got a raw deal in life. At least his older siblings had love and stability far longer than he ever did. His young life was full of loneliness, anger, fear, and loss. Seeing him pierced by those arrows, before and after death, was tough. And poor Art Parkinson didn't have one line this season.

Dany and her dragons were amazing!! I love that Rhaegal and Viserion blew their way out of the catacombs when they knew mom and bro were near. The CGI as all 3 took to the skies and burned the fleet was the best I've ever seen. That was better than any dragons I've seen in a big budget movie. Now if we could just get R&V dragonriders of their own. :-)

I love Yara and Dany together. I loved Theon holding his own under Tyrion's questioning. I was sure he would collapse into a pile of tears. Good job in keeping it together, Theon! I think I'm really going to love this new Meereen group.

RIP, Wun Wun. RIP, Rickon Stark. Burn in hell, Ramsay. But I will miss Iwan Rheon. Thank you gods, for keeping Davos and Tormund safe!

Edited June 20, 2016 by bunnyblue

[kieyra]

8 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Tomato tomahto.  Where you see sexual tension I see two accomplished women sizing each other and appreciating what they saw in the other: an ally worthy of respect.

Fair, but Yara was also flirting and Dany was grinning ear to ear. 

The thing is, I could see both of them going for it--and it not being any big deal for either of them. Something to take the edge off, so to speak. Then going back to leading their armies.

Now, if we get a full-on post-coital bedroom scene next week, then yes, HBO marketing got us for sure. 

[AGuyToo]

In this episode, we saw Davos discover Shireen's toy and the pyre on which she was burned.

But it's been weeks (at least) since Stannis killed Shireen. What did Davos think happened to her? Did he really never ask? In all this time?

[lmsweb]

3 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Fair, but Yara was also flirting and Dany was grinning ear to ear. 

The thing is, I could see both of them going for it--and it not being any big deal for either of them. Something to take the edge off, so to speak. Then going back to leading their armies.

Now, if we get a full-on post-coital bedroom scene next week, then yes, HBO marketing got us for sure. 

And in the books, didn't Dany have some sexy time with her handmaidens at a few points? So she's not exactly all about just the penis.

[Dewey Decimate]

33 minutes ago, Rocket said:

Yes I was thinking Dogs of War have to be put down sooner or later as they are dangerous to  even their trainers. So yes it good they got a last meal.

Naw, I want them to be rehabilitated! Like a Pitbulls and Parolees kind of thing, but starring, of course, The Hound. I can totally see him in a puffy training suit, spouting wise-ass bon mots.

11 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I understand that Tyrion was unforgiving with Theon for now...but I think they might bond and I'll be very curious to see whether Tyrion's wife and what happened to her at the hands of Ramsay will be mentioned.

Ooh, forgot about all the connections now! Would love to see that conversation.

[some1105]

8 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

Ramsay: My hounds will never harm me.
Sansa: You haven't fed them in 7 days, you said it yourself.

I'm rewatching, and that's the line she said that threw me off. Usually you'd say something like "I heard you told Jon they hadn't been fed in 7 days" or "Jon told me you said they hadn't been fed in 7 days". I can still accept that obviously Jon or Davos or someone told her, it was just odd wording choice, I think.

She had actually just taken off on her horse.  Fair point.  There would have been more pertinent details to share with her before the battle (though it wouldn't have made much sense to recount it, as the others in the battle planning session were still at the parley when Ramsay said it). I'd buy it most as Jon having told her after she asked where Ramsay was being held, but your observation remains.

[kieyra]

1 minute ago, AGuyToo said:

In this episode, we saw Davos discover Shireen's toy and the pyre on which she was burned.

But it's been weeks (at least) since Stannis killed Shireen. What did Davos think happened to her? Did he really never ask? In all this time?

Yep. Been wondering this ever since he teamed up with Melisandre in episode one of this season. They had to keep him weirdly ignorant of events so Jon could get a seasoned advisor quickly. 

[lmsweb]

7 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Yep. Been wondering this ever since he teamed up with Melisandre in episode one of this season. They had to keep him weirdly ignorant of events so Jon could get a seasoned advisor quickly. 

I've gone with the thought that when Melisande came back from the battle and shook her head, that he would have assumed that what happened is exactly what happened and Stannis and his army got their asses handed to them. He may have just assumed up to that point that Shireen and her mother were unfortunate casualties of that during he inevitable routing that would have taken place after.

Edited June 20, 2016 by lmsweb

[Oscirus]

Quote

Dany and her dragons were amazing!! I love that Rhaegal and Viserion blew their way out of the catacombs when they knew mom and bro were near.

That bothers me. The dragons clearly didn't like captivity and Tyrion freed them a while ago. What the hell were they waiting for?

Quote

But it's been weeks (at least) since Stannis killed Shireen. What did Davos think happened to her? Did he really never ask? In all this time?

He asked, but Brienne took it upon herself to lay down futile threats at that moment thereby disrupting the flow of that convo..
 

Quote

 

I understand that Tyrion was unforgiving with Theon for now...but I think they might bond and I'll be very curious to see whether Tyrion's wife and what happened to her at the hands of Ramsay will be mentioned

 

The most important revelation is that Tyrion now knows that there are Starks who are alive.  So now the big question is do they go North to get their support or go to KL after the Iron Island trip to take the throne ASAP.

[benteen]

Jon and Dany are starting to assemble their armies for the end game.  It's cool to see how characters are gravitating to them both.  Jon with Sansa, Davos, Tormund, Melisandre, Brienne, Pod.  Dany has Tyrion and the Greyjoys right now but you can expect both sides to keep building.

I wonder if Theon will end up fighting with the Unsullied.  That training and discipline would probably help rebuild his mind after Ramsay.

[dbell1]

Did anyone else think of Fezzig the giant and Inigio Montoya in The Princess Bride when Wun Wun broke down the door?  "Help me Fezzig, the six fingered man is getting away"! 

Oh, and whoever said LOTR and Jackson's battle scenes, yes! Totally go flashbacks to those movies. 

[Minneapple]

50 minutes ago, gbbarb said:

Your assuming the Vale troops are coming or would even get their in time which Sansa had no way of knowing and she also couldn't know if Littlefinger would use the troops for her or against her since he had already given her to Ramsey before.

This was my impression as well, that Sansa didn't want to give Jon false hope about the Vale troops. If she gave him hope and the troops didn't come, well, it would all have been one giant letdown.

Anyway, Dany/Yara new OTP. And I like Dany when she actually listens to Tyrion and takes his advice instead of going all fire breathy dragony all over the place.

However, no mention of Sansa in the conversation between Theon and Tyrion? "Uh, your wife married Ramsey Bolton and then we escaped his crazy-ass clutches and now she and Jon Snow are trying to take back Winterfell. Just, you know, bee tee dubs."

Just incredible work on the battle scenes. Brutal but impressive. Kit was amazing. I had to pause and take breaths. Also incredible CGI on the dragons. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Minneapple

[AGuyToo]

2 minutes ago, benteen said:

Jon and Dany are starting to assemble their armies for the end game.  It's cool to see how characters are gravitating to them both.  Jon with Sansa, Davos, Tormund, Melisandre, Brienne, Pod.  Dany has Tyrion and the Greyjoys right now but you can expect both sides to keep building.

I wonder if Theon will end up fighting with the Unsullied.  That training and discipline would probably help rebuild his mind after Ramsay.

Don't forget Varys.

The Unsullied are an elite fighting force. Being a eunuch is not enough. Theon isn't qualified.

[Brn2bwild]

A few more thoughts after watching the episode again:

1.  I thought Bran and his visions would play a role in the battle or Ramsay's death.

2.  Why didn't anyone on Team Stark wear a helmet during battle?

3.  I thought they said the people burning on the crosses would be people we'd recognize.  I didn't see it, and all of our heroes survived the episode.

4.  In interviews, the actor who played Ramsay said Ramsay was affected by the deaths of his stepmother and brother, but if so, it was left on the cutting room floor.

5.  The Bolton sigil looks like a fucked up British flag.

6.  When the Stark flag was lowered over Winterfell, I was hoping it would be more of a "Hell, yeah!" moment.  Music swelling, Jon and Sansa smiling, etc.

7.  In Meereen, there was supposedly a scene where Tyrion saw Shae, or a vision of her.  If so, that must have been left on the cutting room floor, too, because it seems like Team Dany is leaving for Westeros next week.

[AuntieMame]

15 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

And in the books, didn't Dany have some sexy time with her handmaidens at a few points? So she's not exactly all about just the penis.

Yes, she did, but it was written that it was unsatisfactory for Dany, partly because she was being serviced by a slave and partly because, no penis. She stopped when she realized her handmaiden was being juyjuyst that. It made her feel squicky.

[mgk]

21 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I wonder if Sansa didn't shut up about the Vale knights because she's on her own quest for personal revenge. She seems very Tully right now, playing right in the hand of Littlecreeper like her aunt and mother used to (before her mother opened her eyes, but too late). I'm not far from thinking that after using LF in order to get rid of Ramsay, she could get rid of him in turn for broking her marriage. What she said to Jon about nobody being able to protect her makes me wonder. It would be interesting if everybody expected Arya to forsake everything for revenge, and in the end it's Sansa who goes on this road.

Poor Rickon. In my headcanon, he and Shireen are now playing with the direwolves under Osha's watchful but fond eye.

I'm not sure how I'm feeling about Sansa right now.  She basically manipulated Jon into fighting for Winterfell by saying Ramsey held their brother.  He pretty much refused up until that point.  For her to then tell him, right before battle, just kidding, we're never getting Rickon back alive?  It's making this look very selfish and motivated by what she feels she's entitled to as a Stark.  Understandable, but kind of cold to think of how many lives were lost.

[WatchrTina]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

I didn't realize you could use "serpentine" as a verb.

"Serpentine!" as a verb was made famous by the movie "The In-Laws" starring Peter Falk and Alan Arkin.  Really funny film from 1979.

Edited June 20, 2016 by WatchrTina

[gatopretoNYC]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Can someone please explain the Serpentine Rickon thing to me? Thanks!

This is where I know it from - The In-Laws. Great silly movie from 1979, starring Peter Falk and Alan Arkin. 

[AGuyToo]

11 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

6.  When the Stark flag was lowered over Winterfell, I was hoping it would be more of a "Hell, yeah!" moment.  Music swelling, Jon and Sansa smiling, etc.

A lot of people died in the battle of Winterfell, including their little brother. Celebration/swelling music/smiling would have been out of place.

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, dbell1 said:

Now we need Sansa to tell Littlefinger that the save makes them even and to get the hell out of Eddard's house and back away from the weirwood. If he inserts himself between the siblings, I'll take him to the dogs feeders personally.

But Littlefinger is already between the siblings, isn't he? Sansa didn't tell Jon she had called LF - his surprised face when the Valley army arrived is proof enough. Sansa didn't trust Jon, Sansa still doesn't trust Jon. Littlefinger doesn't need to do anything there; Sansa may not trust Littlefinger, but this is Littlefinger: he doesn't need her trust, all he needs is that she doesn't trust the one she should. Look, it doesn't matter how you look at it, there are no excuses for Sansa not telling Jon about the Valley, even if she wasn't sure if Littlefinger would show up or not. Maybe a lot of blood could have been spared, and that is on Sansa. All those bodies? A lot of them are on Jon, a lot of them are on Ramsay, and  a lot them are on Sansa. 

I liked that Sansa called Jon on not asking for her opinion/insight when planning the battle with Davos and Tormind, and I liked that he apologized and asked what she thought. But this scene sort of feel flat for me, because Sansa didn't offer more than the 'I know Ramsay and Rickon is dead'. So when Jon says that 'odds blah blah', and she cannot reply anything else, it simply shows - again - that she doesn't trust him to explain about the Valley - and that she is no strategist since she cannot give any other help than 'Rickon is dead, because Ramsay is a fucker and he will kill our brother one way or another.'  It also makes her look, I don't even know, but she was the one who pushed the battle to Winterfell using as her main argument that Ramsay had Rickon. Generally speaking, the writing for the North plot sucks big time and does/did no favors to Sansa and Jon. There are/were individual scenes that were well-written and poignant and even kick-ass, but most of the time, it all comes down to Jon and Sansa being written as idiots/sttuborn/naive (which they are not, at least not all the time and not at the same time) so their forces would be outnumbered and close to death until rescue came and Littlefinger could save the day and be back in the big game. 

From Davos and Tormund following Jon into battle even knowing it was a bad idea dt Ramsay saying Jon was nothing, just a bastard, the anvils about Jon becoming King of the North dropped heavy than Wun Wun in Winterfell didn't they? I'm not sure if the show used to be subtler or since I've read the books that kind of sutff didn't bother me much, but it was distracting. Also irrating: Ramsay calling Jon a bastard all the time, yet not a single scene where someone reminded Ramsay that he too is a bastard.

What great TV was that battle! The directing, the writing, the photography... Someone said Henry V, Saving Private Ryan, LOTR, and yes, GoT was up to that tonight. Jon trying to scape being buried by a pile of bodies was one of the most horrible things I have ever seen, yet it was one of the most 'stunning' scenes I have ever seen. That carnage was a thing of beauty.

Jon was an idiot, but there is no way he wouldn't have taken the bait and tried to save Rickon. This is Jon Snow, who probably, from all people in this show, 'values' family the most. It is who he is, so it was probably the most in character thing ever. I wouldn't buy for a second a Jon Snow that wouldn't have tried to save his little brother.

Speaking about Rickon, I was screaming zig-zag at my TV, but then my friends said he was too scared for that, to which I say he could have serpentined and still be killed by Ramsay. It is all in the details, you know.

So Ramsay shot his own men and nobody desert? And where was Lady Marmmont? Just a little shot of hers face during the actual battle would have been nice. Love Davos, love Tormund, and how they followed Jon into death.

No fucking way Ramsay would still have all his teeth after being hit by Jon with a shield and like a good rage induced 20 punches.

Sansa feeding Ramsay to the dogs was the most rewarding scene ever in this show. Only thing that can probably top that is Arya killing Cersei, assuming it ever happens. Even so, I doubt.

I don't think Sophie Turner is a great actress, but she was excellent  tonight. Also, it is amazing how much a better actor Kit Harrington is these days; he would never been able to pull off these scenes in season 1, but he has evolved a lot.

The cherry on the top of the fucking cake in this episode? The dog licking Ramsay's face before eating him. Glad this fucking sociopath is dead.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Raachel2008
I can't spell.

[Minneapple]

2 minutes ago, mgk said:

I'm not sure how I'm feeling about Sansa right now.  She basically manipulated Jon into fighting for Winterfell by saying Ramsey held their brother.  He pretty much refused up until that point.  For her to then tell him, right before battle, just kidding, we're never getting Rickon back alive?  It's making this look very selfish and motivated by what she feels she's entitled to as a Stark.  Understandable, but kind of cold to think of how many lives were lost.

Rickon wasn't the only part of her argument though. She was right in that they would never be safe if Ramsey was alive and holding Winterfell. She also told Jon that if the White Walkers are coming, then Ramsey Bolton as Warden of the North is going to be useless, and she's right. They need Winterfell, a good leader and a big army in order to defeat the bigger enemy that's coming. Ramsey would have been just as pleased to let everyone rot and save his own skin.

I will agree that Sansa's development is a little...eyebrow-raising. I think she had good reason to not tell Jon about the Vale army, but I can see the other argument as well. And I mean I think she watched Ramsey's hounds devour him for just a leetle bit too long. Plus that smile afterward. Not sure what to think. But I think that's why Sansa's one of my favorites. 

[MyRealName]

My immediate response was F the Starks they're too dumb to root for. Even though Jon's plan was doomed to failure, it was at least a plan. He abandoned it, falling directly into Ramsey's trap, which Sansa had just warned him about. I would have been okay with him being trampled by the Bolton's, thereby becoming another Stark murdered by their own stupidity.

If Sansa had told Jon about the Vale army he might have incorporated them into that failed plan, and maybe still have been slaughtered. He wasn't listening to what she was saying, so I've forgiven her for not telling him.

Has the Bolton sigil always been the flayed man? If so, the Bolton's been crazy since way back. If their house is truly dead, I'm ok with that.

Edited June 20, 2016 by MyRealName

[TaurusRose]

44 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Fair, but Yara was also flirting and Dany was grinning ear to ear. 

The thing is, I could see both of them going for it--and it not being any big deal for either of them. Something to take the edge off, so to speak. Then going back to leading their armies.

Now, if we get a full-on post-coital bedroom scene next week, then yes, HBO marketing got us for sure. 

Yes, Yara was flirting and Dany was amused, but the most important thing to both of them was achieving their respective goals without conflict between them. As for sexy times, sure it could happen, but does it have to or need to?  Truthfully, I'm getting a little tired of this particular trope and Dany has never fallen into bed easily, so I'd be surprised if she did now because it's Yara flirting.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by taurusrose

[bunnyblue]

I'm re-watching the battle part right now, and I noticed that Jon and Smalljon stopped and stared at each other in the 'mosh pit' area right before Jon got trampled. I wonder if that was a hint that they recognized each other from when they were growing up as the sons of Ned Stark and Greatjon Umber?

Also, what the hell happened to Harold Karstark? The last I saw of him, he was sitting atop his horse next to Ramsay while the archers loosed their arrows? At least Smalljon went into the fray.

[SeanC]

Just now, bunnyblue said:

Also, what the hell happened to Harold Karstark?

I was just coming in to ask that.  There was a pre-episode spoiler claiming that Jon killed him, but if that happened, I missed it.

[Black Knight]

50 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Tomato tomahto.  Where you see sexual tension I see two accomplished women sizing each other and appreciating what they saw in the other: an ally worthy of respect.

I saw both. Yara was certainly flirting and Dany smiled at it. I seriously doubt Dany/Yara are endgame, but it certainly can be a fun diversion for the both of them.

11 minutes ago, mgk said:

I'm not sure how I'm feeling about Sansa right now.  She basically manipulated Jon into fighting for Winterfell by saying Ramsey held their brother.  He pretty much refused up until that point.  For her to then tell him, right before battle, just kidding, we're never getting Rickon back alive?  It's making this look very selfish and motivated by what she feels she's entitled to as a Stark.  Understandable, but kind of cold to think of how many lives were lost.

She's learned to play the game. Of course she was going to want revenge on Ramsay, and besides, it is inescapable that the North is better off not being ruled by a sadistic psychopath like Ramsay Bolton. But Sansa's the only one who was stepping up to eliminate him. I guess in that sense you could say that she's taking after her father Ned, who went to war against another sadistic psychopath - that got way more people killed than this one battle did, but is still seen as a net good because Aerys was eliminated.

Jon still has learning to do, but that's okay. It seems to me that one of the themes of this series is that everyone makes mistakes. Tyrion was right in his advice to Dany here, but he still screwed up with the Masters before. Dany couldn't figure out how to settle Meereen down. Jon's policies as Lord Commander led to a mutiny by his own men. etc. If we look at real life, even the best, most experienced leaders are sometimes wrong, but we so rarely see that reflected in high fantasy.

I really wish Davos had just shoved Mel off the rampart. Why confront her and give her warning? I'm worried that they're going to give him the Cressen subplot from the books - you know, where he tries to poison Mel and dies himself.

[Dev F]

51 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

Poor Rickon. I always liked him and the actor. He got a raw deal in life. At least his older siblings had love and stability far longer than he ever did. His young life was full of loneliness, anger, fear, and loss. Seeing him pierced by those arrows, before and after death, was tough. And poor Art Parkinson didn't have one line this season.

I suspect it's at least partly because the character is still supposed to be like nine or ten, but if he spoke it'd be clear that he's already pubescent.

30 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

In Meereen, there was supposedly a scene where Tyrion saw Shae, or a vision of her.  If so, that must have been left on the cutting room floor, too, because it seems like Team Dany is leaving for Westeros next week.

Unless it happens because they're leaving for Westeros, and Tyrion is contemplating the world he'll be returning to and the circumstance in which he left it.

[mgk]

11 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

 

I will agree that Sansa's development is a little...eyebrow-raising. I think she had good reason to not tell Jon about the Vale army, but I can see the other argument as well. And I mean I think she watched Ramsey's hounds devour him for just a leetle bit too long. Plus that smile afterward. Not sure what to think. But I think that's why Sansa's one of my favorites. 

I suppose it depends on why she didn't tell him.  If it was uncertainty that the army would arrive, her motives were pure, but it's such a stupid thing to keep secret. If it was a planned surprise so that Ramsey would be caught off guard, it was very smart, but basically sacrificing the Wildling army to win the battle.

 

Sansa unflinchingly watching Ramsey being devoured by dogs was both a very sad and also a very satisfying character moment for her.

[WatchrTina]

As satisfying as it was to see Jon beat Ramsey with his bare hands and to watch Sansa watch as his dogs tore in to shreds, there was a part of me that really wanted to Jon to just have his archers shoot the MoFo when he suggested (in the courtyard of Winterfell) that NOW he was ready to face Jon in single combat.  Yeah, he was ready to face Jon -- Jon who had been fighting hand-to-hand for his life for 15 minutes and had sprinted across the length of three or four football fields to catch Ramsey who had just been sitting on a horse during the whole battle.  Wanker.  I immediately thought of that scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark when the big turbaned bad guy wants to have a sword fight with Indiana and he just shoots him.  I would have laughed so hard if Jon had just signaled to all those archers to "Just shoot him."

[AbFabGab]

2 hours ago, ybrik said:

Sad about Rickon but kid you got to zig and zag.

Yes! The whole time I just kept shouting "bob and weave! bob and weave!" Especially after the first arrow when it was evident Ramsay had some aim. 

Still, sad to see him go, sad to get confirmation that Shaggy Dog was gone, and for some inexplicable reason, poor CGI Wun Wun got to me almost as much as both of them. That's going to be a big ass pyre they have to make for him, but if there's one body you don't want reanimating, it's his.

[bunnyblue]

Ah, and something else I noticed in my second viewing is that there are still quite a lot of Wildling fighters left. They were the ones who stormed Winterfell with Jon and Wun Wun and they were in the courtyard when Rickon's body was brought in. So, YAY!!! Now they deserve the cushiest rooms in Wintefell and nice, long, hot baths. Then bring the women, children, and old folks down from the Gift and let them settle in Wintertown. 

To those who read the spoilers: was anyone else wondering which of the Wildlings in the WF courtyard was our leaker? Docmantis-something was his name right? 

[Brn2bwild]

39 minutes ago, AGuyToo said:

A lot of people died in the battle of Winterfell, including their little brother. Celebration/swelling music/smiling would have been out of place.

I don't see why.  Retaking Winterfell was the point of all this, and in plenty of similar scenarios, there has been at least one joyful moment at the end.  Even soaring music with a bittersweet undertone would have been welcome.

Even if Sansa didn't feel like celebrating after her brother's death, it's a little odd she didn't react at all to his dead body.  She hadn't seen him since he was small, but still.  She was oddly flat during Season 5 when she was back at Winterfell for the first time, or when she discussed her parents' deaths, etc. with Littlefinger as well.  Since I think Sophie Turner could show emotion if required, I have to conclude it's a directorial choice.  Maybe it's meant to show Sansa walled off her emotions for her own survival.   

Edited June 20, 2016 by Brn2bwild

[Knuckles]

On a rewatch, the scenes between Jon and Sansa were pretty tense. Sansa calling out Jon for not asking her advice on how to deal with Ramsay...she did point out that she knew the man, knew how he liked to bait and trap people, an insight that Jon largely brushed aside. Her statement that no one could protect anyone...and her distrust of Jon's assurance that he had fought and won against tougher opponents/odds was much more apparent than on first watching. She really doesn't know Jon, but life and experience has taught her that depending on anyone else for help is likely to cost her terribly. Jon is talking to her as if she is still the girl he knew at Winterfell, badly treated, but still a vulnerable girl. Sansa is demonstrating that she can handle things on her own...in fact not telling Jon, since he fails to treat her as an equal, is her response. I think she did know that Littlefinger and the Vale army were in the vicinity...but she was weighing the price that Littlefinger would charge for his help. Jon's reluctance to treat her as an equal pushed her into riding off and making the deal with LF on her own.

[DropTheSoap]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Serious question -- is there ANYONE left to fight the White Walkers?  The death toll from that battle was catastrophic.

What about a khalasar? (Serious answer...I was thinking about this today.)

Dany/Yara have about the best chemistry of any couple on GoT. Just sayin'...

ETA: Ramsey's teeth were too pretty at the end. The way Jon was pummeling his face...he should have had broken/missing teeth, not pretty white ones.

Edited June 20, 2016 by DropTheSoap
omitted information

[ulkis]

14 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

As satisfying as it was to see Jon beat Ramsey with his bare hands and to watch Sansa watch as his dogs tore in to shreds, there was a part of me that really wanted to Jon to just have his archers shoot the MoFo when he suggested (in the courtyard of Winterfell) that NOW he was ready to face Jon in single combat.  Yeah, he was ready to face Jon -- Jon who had been fighting hand-to-hand for his life for 15 minutes and had sprinted across the length of three or four football fields to catch Ramsey who had just been sitting on a horse during the whole battle.  Wanker.  I immediately thought of that scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark when the big turbaned bad guy wants to have a sword fight with Indiana and he just shoots him.  I would have laughed so hard if Jon had just signaled to all those archers to "Just shoot him."

Jon shoulda done to Ramsey what he did to Rickon. Told him to run and then shoot him in the back.

[SFoster21]

Ramsey had an interesting expression when he was being beaten. It was almost like ecstasy.

Jon is gonna have sore hands for a few days.

[J----av]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

The epic, it was delivered. And delivered. And delivered.

I cheered and gasped and giggled and hell-yeah!ed. Loved the contrast between the battle of Meereen in the air and open space, and the battle of Winterfell in the mud and claustrophobic.

My Davos is alive, phew! The "previously" broke my heart, then it broke again when he found the stag. If a look could kill Mel would be already dead (if only). I hope that it won't drive a wedge between him and Jon because noooo! Davos and Tormund is my new favorite friendship. And I might have savagely cheered when Tormund pulled the Rick Grimes on Umber.

I loved Jon. I love when he fights and I love his courage. His confrontation with Ramsay was everything I wanted it to be, the real knight against the coward, and I savagely cheered again when Jon hit Ramsay with his shield. It was even better than pummeling his face.

If Sansa wanted Jon to wait, she should have told him about the Vale . I agree that he chose to fight because he didn't think they could get more/enough men and the situation would only get worse for those he actually had and for Rickon. I understand her need to be listened to, but 1) as she said, she doesn't know anything about battles so that's kind of normal that he didn't think of asking her anything during a war council about this precise subject and 2) I can't say that her advice about Ramsay was concrete enough for someone like Jon. Don't get me wrong, she was right about Ramsay's manipulative ways but he asked for/needed a practical strategy. 

Personally, with her warnings, I expected Ramsay to kill Rickon before the fight and show the body on a cross. So even if he took Sansa's advice in consideration (and I think he did) seeing his brother alive troubled Jon and made him lose his focus because he still had a chance of saving Rickon. Even if it was close to zero. I know he shouldn't have, but Jon wouldn't be Jon to me if he didn't try everything to save someone he loves. And I know it was a mistake, strategically, but I think I would have lost respect for him otherwise.

I wonder if Sansa didn't shut up about the Vale knights because she's on her own quest for personal revenge. She seems very Tully right now, playing right in the hand of Littlecreeper like her aunt and mother used to (before her mother opened her eyes, but too late). I'm not far from thinking that after using LF in order to get rid of Ramsay, she could get rid of him in turn for broking her marriage. What she said to Jon about nobody being able to protect her makes me wonder. It would be interesting if everybody expected Arya to forsake everything for revenge, and in the end it's Sansa who goes on this road.

Poor Rickon. In my headcanon, he and Shireen are now playing with the direwolves under Osha's watchful but fond eye.

Tyrion and Dany, I loved. They make a great team. I loved every single moment in Meereen. Loved the negotiation. Loved Missandei/Grey Worm/Tyrion against the masters while Dany and her babies were getting shit done. Loved the girl power, of course. I understand that Tyrion was unforgiving with Theon for now...but I think they might bond and I'll be very curious to see whether Tyrion's wife and what happened to her at the hands of Ramsay will be mentioned.

Next week looks even more epic. I.can't.wait.

 How is Ramsay a coward? Ramsay is probably one of the bravest men in Westeros. He is known to be stupidly brave to the point of being completely reckless 

[jjjmoss]

3 minutes ago, DropTheSoap said:

What about a khalasar? (Serious answer...I was thinking about this today.)

Dany/Yara have about the best chemistry of any couple on GoT. Just sayin'...

Well, the only romantic couple I've supported on the show was Renly + Loras. Maybe they should look at creating more queer relationships if this is what they get. Personally I, like Sophie Turner, would find Sansa + Margaery to be a wonderful couple.