S05.E13: Return 0

[Agent Dark]

The music that played during RootMachine's upload and Reese's death, was Metamorphosis One by Phillip Glass. 

 

 

I remember Battlestar Galactica used that track too (at the start of Season 2, when Starbuck and Helo rest up for a moment in Starbuck's old apartment back on Caprica).  Which got me thinking about Series Finales - Battlestar Galactica was probably the show previous to Person of Interest that I really deeply got into, but I think its pretty widely accepted that BSG's finale was less than satisfying.  PoI on the other hand I think went out with its head held high, and for that I'm really happy.  There was definitely shades of "The Dark Knight Rises" with Harold and Grace, which is probably not surprising given this is Jonathan Nolan (also think of Interstellar where Cooper ends up with a somewhat similar "happy" ending).  I think the episode hit the right notes too about making it more-so about The Machine Herself - The Machine was always the 'big picture' idea of the show, and I like that She was firmly at the centre of the episode.  I just think that's such a fantastic evolution of the show, from "Pilot" to "Return 0".  Successful Execution.

 

I felt the action was surprisingly muted, but I think I prefer that to get the character stuff we got.  There was so much great stuff for Shaw in this episode, from her attempts to say goodbye to Root first at her grave, then to the physical servers of The Machine and finally the ending with Shaw accepting the phone call.  Sarah Shahi absolutely nailed that scene in the subway, where the The Volume get turned way up when The Machine was talking about Root's feelings for her.  Sarah Shahi needs to be in all the things (starting with Shaw spinoff yes please.  Though also maybe that Foundation series that Jonah Nolan is developing?).  Reese went out exactly how he should have; saving All The Numbers and saving Harold.  RIP The Man in the Suit.  Fusco surviving was pretty important to me too, because his journey over the show has been so fulfilling.  Imagining him dealing with Admin!Shaw and MachineRoot post-finale brings a smile to my face :)

Edit: Forgot to mention the other track used Bunsen Burner by CUTS, which was also on the Ex Machina soundtrack (when Harold walks out onto the roof, and MachineRoot asks him "is this now?"). 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Agent Dark

[Princess Lucky]

Beautiful episode.

It got me crying about 10 times, not gonna lie. Reese and Fusco saying their goodbye, after Finch and Shaw just took off because they don't do goodbyes? Reese clapping Fusco on the shoulder, all "Try not to die" and Fusco saying "I love you too?" Damn but I loved their partnership throughout the years. The Machine/Shaw "straight line" moment was glorious. I totally agree that Sarah Shahi's acting was stellar in that scene. "An arrow" indeed. And Jim Caviezel's voice when he was yelling "Harold. Wait. Harold! WAIT." That destroyed me.

The most beatiful moment, though, was seeing Root-as-the-Machine being there for the last moments of so many people. Everyone dies alone, but not really. That moment when we saw Her sitting next to that dying woman? It's like the Machine was with her. Like no one really dies alone. The Machine is watching. She can offer a measure of companionship at the end.

And then, when She layed a hand on John's shoulder? Grown-up John, as he was going out in a blaze of glory, but also young John, at his father's funeral? Beautiful.

I must say that from the very start I had guessed Root and Reese would be the ones to die, and Harold would get his happy ending, and I'm a little disappointed the ending was so predictable. I would have preferred it if Finch died too, but I do at least like the fact we knew Grace sort of suspected Harold was alive (if I recall correctly) so it wasn't "omg a ghost!" moment, it was more like "omg I knew it!" I truly hope Harold stays away from computers from now on. He's done enough damage. But he's saved a few people too; another lovely moment between him and the Machine, by the way. And speaking of disappointments, I did think the final Machine/Samaritan showdown was totally anti-climactic. For a show about AIs, the finale was 95% about the human characters. But then, that's why it was so effective. And that other 5% was about the Machine as She related to humanity, which was also fitting. And I do also think Blackwell's ending was fitting but cruel and abrupt. The actor did some interesting things with the character. I said it earlier in the season, he reminded me of Hersh. It's a shame he never got to see the error of his ways.

Back to the good stuff: I loved that Shaw had the final moment, and that she is officially the new Reese now (without the conscience, heh). I loved that she took Bear, and I loved that Fusco is alive and well and still on the force and still eating for two.

I also loved that both Harold and John were perfectly willing to die to save the other. Granted, Harold was already injured at the time, so maybe he figured he might as well go out with a bang, but I do genuinely think Harold wanted to die because he was accepting his responsibility in this whole thing. Which is another reason I'm semi-ok with his happy ending. When he saw that John was so determined to die to protect him, Harold maybe felt, finally, that he should cut himself some slack. That John's death shouldn't be in vain. I do think John would have wanted for Harold to be happy, to be with the woman he loved. Like Reese never could.

And it made perfect sense that John and the Machine had a standing agreement. John failed to save Carter, a life that was important both to him and to the world itself, and he wouldn't fail again. The worst thing that could happen to John would be to lose one more person he loved. John himself dying, that's easier. John dying, knowing he saved Harold (not to mention the world itself), that's not a bad way to go. And, personally, even though it was hard to watch John get shot so many times, I liked that we saw it. I liked that we stayed with him, like the Machine did. He went out a hero, like his father, and we got to see it. Like he deserved. Like we deserved.

John has always been my favourite character, because on paper he's one way but in actuality he's so complex and layered and different and, dare I say, unique. I credit Jim Caviezel for a lot of that. For the emotion, for the subtlety, for the humour. For the heart. There was always depth in Reese's eyes, even if his demeanor seemed detached or even cold. That little smile of his, when he saw that Harold was getting away? That was earned. Reese and Finch, they loved each other in their own way. Harold said his goodbye, and then Reese did, and Reese went out in peace, saving his friend, and I'm happy for him.

Person of Interest wasn't perfect, but it was pretty damn close. I'm glad we got those 5 years, I'm glad the show had only slight slumps and never really faltered, and I'm glad we got a happy (all things considered) ending that leaves some hope for the future. I'm glad the two characters we lost, Root and Reese, died protecting humanity (and Harold, heh) and I'm glad they died by their own choice. I can mourn them, but I'm not distraught over their loss. That's a nice feeling.

I absolutely loved this show, and I'm happy the ending doesn't in any way sour what came before it. I'll be able to rewatch the show and enjoy it just the same, knowing what's coming. That's all I really wanted from this finale, and I got it.

Thanks for all the conversation, guys. Both on TWoP and here. It's been illuminating. I'm glad we had a show of this caliber to bring us together.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Princess Lucky

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It was really nice to see John smile as Finch left. In five seasons, we rarely saw him smile so it was nice to see it just on principle, but it was also good because he really was at peace with sacrificing himself in order to save Finch. Losing Carter really hurt him but I think losing Finch would have been too much on top of that.

Fusco told Shaw he was back at work. How on earth did we swing that after what happened at the beginning of the episode?

Edited June 22, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Agent Dark]

21 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Fusco told Shaw he was back at work. How on earth did we swing that after what happened at the beginning of the episode?

"Yeah, my friend is all seeing, super-powered robot. And that scary ninja-assassin lady over there is Her girlfriend.  You probably don't want to mess with either of them, so I'll be having my job back thanks"

[ketchuplover]

I thought Grace was a ghost and they're in heaven now.  R.I.P POI

[Ellee]

So....how do we work on 'somebody' to correct CBS' mistake??? 

[benteen]

4 hours ago, Agent Dark said:

The music that played during RootMachine's upload and Reese's death, was Metamorphosis One by Phillip Glass. 

 

 

 

I remember Battlestar Galactica used that track too (at the start of Season 2, when Starbuck and Helo rest up for a moment in Starbuck's old apartment back on Caprica).  Which got me thinking about Series Finales - Battlestar Galactica was probably the show previous to Person of Interest that I really deeply got into, but I think its pretty widely accepted that BSG's finale was less than satisfying.  PoI on the other hand I think went out with its head held high, and for that I'm really happy.  There was definitely shades of "The Dark Knight Rises" with Harold and Grace, which is probably not surprising given this is Jonathan Nolan (also think of Interstellar where Cooper ends up with a somewhat similar "happy" ending).  I think the episode hit the right notes too about making it more-so about The Machine Herself - The Machine was always the 'big picture' idea of the show, and I like that She was firmly at the centre of the episode.  I just think that's such a fantastic evolution of the show, from "Pilot" to "Return 0".  Successful Execution.

 

I felt the action was surprisingly muted, but I think I prefer that to get the character stuff we got.  There was so much great stuff for Shaw in this episode, from her attempts to say goodbye to Root first at her grave, then to the physical servers of The Machine and finally the ending with Shaw accepting the phone call.  Sarah Shahi absolutely nailed that scene in the subway, where the The Volume get turned way up when The Machine was talking about Root's feelings for her.  Sarah Shahi needs to be in all the things (starting with Shaw spinoff yes please.  Though also maybe that Foundation series that Jonah Nolan is developing?).  Reese went out exactly how he should have; saving All The Numbers and saving Harold.  RIP The Man in the Suit.  Fusco surviving was pretty important to me too, because his journey over the show has been so fulfilling.  Imagining him dealing with Admin!Shaw and MachineRoot post-finale brings a smile to my face :)

Edit: Forgot to mention the other track used Bunsen Burner by CUTS, which was also on the Ex Machina soundtrack (when Harold walks out onto the roof, and MachineRoot asks him "is this now?"). 

 

I thought some of the music sounded familiar last night.  I really enjoyed the score.

I'll echo what Princess Lucky said, it's been a lot of fun discussing the show with everyone here and previously at TWoP.  I'll miss that and it makes me even more annoyed at CBS.

[MDL]

Quote

I'll miss that and it makes me even more annoyed at CBS.

 

I'm also annoyed at CBS, but two things occurred to me:

1) There is the argument about "when do you end a series". There have been too many series that died of old age and/or attrition, having lost and alienated many of their hard-core fans. So when is the right time to go?

2) At least CBS delivered the cancellation notice far enough in advance so that a final season could be planned and produced, leading up to what, IMO, was a damn fine sendoff.
(As opposed to the crap ABC pulled regarding Castle.)

[mtlchick]

Quote

2) At least CBS delivered the cancellation notice far enough in advance so that a final season could be planned and produced, leading up to what, IMO, was a damn fine sendoff.
(As opposed to the crap ABC pulled regarding Castle.)

The problem was, production were never specially told it was the final season, they just got word that it was a shortened order and they decided on their own that they would tell the story they could with the time constraints given. And I think many of us were hoping for a new show to bomb quickly so POI can be slotted in mid season.  But I think I'm more bitter by the fact that it was a top 20 show the first 3 season, #21 in season 4 with solid numbers and...CBS only "broke even on it."  It doesn't help with the lack of streaming options early on for it.

 

Also I blame Princess Lucky for making me tear up into my Starbucks with their post. 

 

Edit: Happy that it's a trending topic on Facebook.

Edited June 22, 2016 by mtlchick

[whatsatool]

17 minutes ago, MDL said:

 

I'm also annoyed at CBS, but two things occurred to me:

1) There is the argument about "when do you end a series". There have been too many series that died of old age and/or attrition, having lost and alienated many of their hard-core fans. So when is the right time to go?

2) At least CBS delivered the cancellation notice far enough in advance so that a final season could be planned and produced, leading up to what, IMO, was a damn fine sendoff.
(As opposed to the crap ABC pulled regarding Castle.)

CBS is idiotic but this was the perfect show. And a good ending. What was the birthday briefcase with cops making fun if well dressed dead guy.

[kwnyc]

Quote

What was the birthday briefcase with cops making fun if well dressed dead guy.

The young cop (Fusco?) made fun of the dead stockbroker, calling him the 1% and saying the guy had stolen his 401k. When they opened the guy's briefcase, they saw a birthday card and present; and when they went to notify the family, it was a wife and young child (presumably it was his birthday.)

 

ETA: I agree with the idea that even good shows can go on too long. I was a fan of The Good Wife, which had a terrible last season. Had they gone out the season where Will was killed, I wouldn't have objected.

Edited June 22, 2016 by kwnyc
Additional thoughts

[tvfanatic13]

I must say, I thought the show ended exactly as it should have. Finch with Grace, Fusco returning to life as an ordinary cop (and possibly continuing TM), Shaw with Bear (and possibly continuing TM), the Machine conquering Samaritan (because it was the first time it needed to do so) and unfortunately Reese dead. But that is how it should have been IMO. This was a series finale, for me, which did it all right. I will miss you show :( 

[Hanahope]

7 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I'm confused... How could that kid at the cemetery be young Reese?  The machine wasn't even thought of at that time so how could it be present for his father's death?  

The Machine has "memories" of all recordings (both visual and audio) that have been made since such things started being recorded and collected.  So you kindof have to fan-wank that either someone recorded the funeral, or it was caught on a camera that eventually made its way into the 'data bank' of recordings and the Machine was able to access it to view/hear it. 

Harold obviously has no idea the Machine was able to be 'born again'.  I wonder if he'll ever find out.  I like that the Machine is now teaching its "child." It appears that the government doesn't know about it either, so one wonders what will happen now to the "relevant" numbers.

Did we ever find out what happened with Control?  She didn't die, right? I can't remember and I had thought we'd see something about it. - Nevermind, read the article linked in the media thread that this plot line was not resolved because they ran out of time.  But if the show returns in some fashion, we may see more of Control, she did not die at that time.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Hanahope

[Hanahope]

10 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

The problem was, production were never specially told it was the final season, they just got word that it was a shortened order and they decided on their own that they would tell the story they could with the time constraints given.

Being told you're a 'shortened season', especially without an official time slot, is a pretty good flag that its likely to be your final season.  I'm sure that if production got word at the last minute that more could come, they would have reshot some of the last scenes.

[mtlchick]

Quote

Being told you're a 'shortened season', especially without an official time slot, is a pretty good flag that its likely to be your final season.  I'm sure that if production got word at the last minute that more could come, they would have reshot some of the last scenes.

Which is why by December I was hoping CBS would announce it would be coming back for mid season.  Instead they were being cagey about it.  As for Control, the producers have said that is one regret they had with the shortened season.  We are left to our imaginations but they were hoping to get Camryn Manheim back.

[benteen]

CBS should have given the show a full season at the very least.

Samaritan made a major blunder by not showing Finch's face on the video screens and telling the citizens to get him.

[Good Queen Jane]

I found myself with a big smile on my face at the end, so I guess I liked the ending. My heart has been broken by too many series finales before ( I'm looking at you, Burn Notice!)

I was glad that Harold ended up with Grace. Harold finally realized that you cannot go through life isolated. It doesn't protect you and it doesn't protect those you love. Only by making connections do you actually live. And I'm not worried about Grace's reaction. She already told Harold that she would forgive him anything.

[DEM]

The showrunners explicitly stated that CBS refused -- even behind closed doors -- to say whether S5 would be the last, so they took it upon themselves to write as if the show were ending.  CBS did not cancel the show officially until the day of or day after they announced the schedule for S5 (in March).

[Ellee]

Saw this .....thought others might like to read it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonOfInterest/comments/4p6x6k/person_of_interest_5x13_return_0_episode/d4ik8bg

[benteen]

Another article by the showrunners about the finale and scenes they had to cut (though it sounds more like cut from the script).

http://tvline.com/2016/06/21/person-of-interest-recap-season-5-series-finale-reese-dies/

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Harold obviously has no idea the Machine was able to be 'born again'.  I wonder if he'll ever find out.  I like that the Machine is now teaching its "child." It appears that the government doesn't know about it either, so one wonders what will happen now to the "relevant" numbers.

 

3 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I did think the final Machine/Samaritan showdown was totally anti-climactic.

I am going to fanwank the Machine's ability to get its memory wiped every night and rebooted the next day was the key in defeating Samaritan.  IIRC Samaritan was not built like that, once it was on, it was never off.  So on the satellite, Machine latched on Samaritan and did complete memory wipe.  Then PSYCH!, my dad programmed me to comeback after each memory wipe :P :P :P 

 

ETA: I agreed with whoever posted how Catholic this episode was ;)

Edited June 22, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[Gigi43]

It sounds like Reese's fathers' death could have been something even covered by local news at the time, given it was a refinery fire and it sounds like his personal role in things was known, or maybe there's some kind of coverage of military funerals. There were scenes with Finch and his dad in one episode where I wasn't sure if it was suppose to be real Machine footage or just memories of Finch's, maybe constructed from things he's said around the computers (he told Nathan about his take on memories around the Machine etc.)  How Reese managed to keep his "job" as a detective given how he was always with Finch, and how Fusco and even Carter had so much time to do the numbers jobs have always been something questionable, so Fusco managing to keep his job is fine with me. Maybe someone at "Thornhill" fixed it. I love that they managed to work a callback to the Man in the Suit, it was such a big part of the beginnings.  

 

Could PoI have used old footage of Carter? I'm sure they would have had to pay her, but it would have been a nice way to include people that couldn't have shown up for finale to maybe have a flash to people/scenes that are "living" in the machine. Zoe, Leon and Taylor (all season I was hoping to see perhaps Fusco dropping his son and Taylor off somewhere, I know we never saw the two together in seasons 1-3 but it would have been a nice quick way to show that he's being checked in on.) All of my disappointments about this season I'm letting go of fairly easily because of the time constraint they had (though there are two episodes I can think of now since they didn't come back in this episode to play a major role in this finale that they could have done without to cover more of the bigger story.)  They may have felt limited in stories to tell as to not open up new stories/questions too much knowing they'll probably never get addressed. I'm sticking to another post I made where I said I'm sadder about the episode order than I am it's the final season. This isn't the kind of show meant to run 10 years, but it's been complex enough over the first four seasons that a full 5th season would have really done it justice. Also the timing stung, a lot of shows lately are doing well once they hit Netflix/syndication, by the time this happened for PoI on WGN/Netflix it was a dead show walking with the news of the 13 episode cut and to be aired at a date to be determined I imagine if you're just getting into it via those mediums and you looked up the current status it could feel like a waste of time or feel like there's no immediate rush to get through the first four seasons, and it was kept off almost a year to date from the season 4 finale, which really signified there wouldn't be some ratings surge to give it a last minute save. My hope now is over time it's considered a cult classic or something, because it should have more recognition.   

 

One thing I'm still unclear of something from last night; those two cops was the younger one actually suppose to be Fusco? Everyone on this show is so good at facial expressions (I'm including Shaw and Reese's stonefaces!) but Michael Emerson and Kevin Chapman are the best at that them and I loved Fusco's face and the "this is next level nuts," and I always love how even though Fusco is comic relief and all KC doesn't go over the top in his deliveries.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Gigi43
I couldn't let some typos slide now that I'm at a real computer not a tablet

[Sakura12]

I liked the ending mostly because it didn't make me rage like some other series finales. This one left it where I can enjoy a re-watch down the line. 

Did the Machine install a back up on an outdated tech so it could reboot itself? Either way I like that Machine is alive and Shaw is continuing their work. I wonder if she'll find the other recruits and make a more nationwide Team Machine. She's not the sit still type and will probably like traveling all over the US to help people. I don't mind that she got one last kill in, that guy shot at Finch and Root, killed Root and stabbed Fusco. The straight line speech got to me. Shahi did a great job with what little emotion Shaw could feel. 

I have an unpopular opinion. I was never a huge fan of Reese, he grew on me as the series progressed but I'm not upset over his death. He died how he wanted too. Saving the world.   

Fusco survived and somehow got back on the force. Maybe the Machine erased all the records they had before "dying"? Otherwise I don't know how he'd be let back on. Fusco and his nicknames, I love that Root was Cocoa Puffs and Shaw is Loony Tunes.  I hope Shaw keeps in touch with him, if only to let Bear visit him. 

Finch got his second "death" and Dark Knight Rises ending. I will hope he tells Grace everything now. Making someone think your dead kind of deserves the truth. However he'll have to know the Machine is operational again, especially if Shaw and Bear are running around saving numbers. Hopefully Bear will be her conscience to keep the no killing rule. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Sakura12

[basiltherat]

Because of the shortened season, we were not able to find out what happened to some of our favorite numbers or to other characters like Control and the Damien Samaritan avatar (which I am glad of, 'cuz he creeped me out), or to make sense of the Blackwell arc.

We did, however, go full circle with John, who began as a "dead" inside person and ended up a hero with a purpose.

Because I had something in my eye at the time, I was not at all sure that Harold was actually there with Grace.  We never did see them touch, so perhaps it is just a hope.   I must watch again.

[CoderLady]

When the unexpected snipers saved Harold on the roof it was almost a throwaway line that Thornhill Industries has been recruiting. We knew that The Machine has been recruiting primary assets from among former numbers but now it's been confirmed that the assassin she sent after Reese on day R wasn't just a one-off and that she can and will hire shooters as necessary, and probably every other type of worker she needs.

To me at least, going forward The Machine is going to be Samaritan but with a compassionate soul. In a way it earns her the actual name "Samaritan" but that name is tainted now. Very ironic.

Edited June 22, 2016 by CoderLady

[fastiller]

I agree with the various posters that have mentioned how very Catholic this episode was.  (Well, probably other faiths too, but since I know Catholicism, that's what resonates with me.)

Also - loved that they went with the very old school method of The Machine recording onto the reel-to-reel from the (I think) rotary dial payphone. 

I need to watch it a couple of times more to properly digest it.

And: Bear's alright! Yay!

[Uncle Benzene]

11 minutes ago, CoderLady said:

To me at least, going forward The Machine is going to be Samaritan but with a compassionate soul. In a way it earns her the actual name "Samaritan" but that name is tainted now. Very ironic.

She should call herself Samanthitan. Heh.

[Hanahope]

26 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Also - loved that they went with the very old school method of The Machine recording onto the reel-to-reel from the (I think) rotary dial payphone.

Couldn't do it digitally, because the virus was infecting everything and the Machine couldn't know if the recording would be corrupted or get through ok.  Tape to tape much safer.

[Rumsy4]

Lovely ending. Was it perfect? No. But it was fitting, and honored the legacy of the Show. I pretty much expected Shaw and Fusco to make it, and for John to die saving Finch. Ultimately, I'm glad Finch Dashwood made it, and is getting a second chance at life, without having to manage the Machine this time. He finally let it go, even though he knew that a copy of his brain-child was saved and ready to be rebooted. 

I predicted correctly that the Machine was recording the message for its rebooted self. The ending shot of Shaw picking up the phone was very Matrix-like. It ended on a hopeful note. Finch's creation survived, and with the help of some old and new recruits, will continue to do its job of saving lives.

Little John at his father's grave/John's moment of death was perfect. Especially with the Machine being "there" on both occasions (with pieced-together electronic memories of the past, the Machine definitely got to know all the Team very well). John's happiness at saving Harold was lovely. He definitely died a hero. Sob...

Shaw's reaction when the Machine gave her Root's message was heartbreakingly beautiful. Shahi really did an amazing job!

Bear lives!! 

Thank you Team Machine, and the creative team behind it all! Definitely starting a rewatch soon.

[Princess Lucky]

You know, we never did learn John's or Harold's real name.

That's kind of beautiful.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Princess Lucky

[Uncle Benzene]

2 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

You know, we never did learn John's or Harold's real name.

That's kind of beautiful.

Yep. I love that in the end, it didn't really matter. Because their true identities shall forever be Long Man and Bespectacled Man.

[Netfoot]

It's been good, people.  Thanks for coming along for the ride, but now it's done.  Except, I will remember, so PoI will never die.  But I'm "Un-Following" now, lest I become a witness to the flogging of a dead horse.  

[mtlchick]

17 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

You know, we never did learn John's or Harold's real name.

That's kind of beautiful.

The opening scene with Harold and Claire about the birds explains as to why Harold's aliases were always birds.  I am curious as to why he settled on Finch though.

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Couldn't do it digitally, because the virus was infecting everything and the Machine couldn't know if the recording would be corrupted or get through ok.  Tape to tape much safer.

True.  I was wondering though, why not go with the (slightly) more modern tape w/ micro-cassette, as opposed to the clunky reel-to-reel.

1 hour ago, Uncle Benzene said:

Yep. I love that in the end, it didn't really matter. Because their true identities shall forever be Long Man and Bespectacled Man.

OR "The Man in the Suit" - but I get you: it's all about Bear's perspective.

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

The opening scene with Harold and Claire about the birds explains as to why Harold's aliases were always birds.  I am curious as to why he settled on Finch though.

Finches are unobtrusive?

[DrScottie]

16 hours ago, beadgirl said:

You know, watching the last 20 minutes I was struck with how very Catholic this show was -- it was all about free will, atonement, redemption, sacrifice, and helping others, and about realizing that there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed.  All in all, a very thoughtful series.

ITA. Harold is the creator of an omniscient and pragmatically humanitarian entity. Jim Caviezel played Jesus Christ and by his sacrifice saves humanity from Samaritan. Root is Joan of Arc (converses with The Machine, acts in Her name, and is martyred for it). Both Fusco and Shaw have redeemed themselves from the crooked cop and completely ruthless assassin they once were. 

[fastiller]

Very nice analysis @DrScottie.

[StarBrand]

Series finales almost never please everyone. To be honest, I was scared this one would disappoint me. It did not. And from what I've read from the fandom, it seems, a lot more people liked it than hated it.

When everything was said and done, we actually did get something of an optimistic ending. Shaw is essentially the Machine's new Admin, and the implication is that she'll be more than glad to keep up Finch's work, and in honor of Root, who was the Machine's biggest supporter. Fusco survives, hell, even Finch gets happy ending with Grace (I didn't think that would be possible at all), and Reese goes out the way you'd expect him to-protecting his friends.

I liked the Machine's conversation about knowing humans. She had to see the way people died, and what led to those deaths, to start to understand how to prevent them. That seeing so many preventable deaths bothered it. I did laugh when it momentarily forgot what made it understand life, and Finch was all "this is perfect; you found the secret of life, and then forgot it!"

Shaw herself got some sort of closure for Root. She couldn't grieve like a normal person should, and said as much at Root's grave. The scene where she reacts after hearing the Machine's message from Root was perfect, the way I imagined Shaw finally breaking down-a nice, quiet moment to herself, unkown to anyone else. I also liked her last conversation with Fusco. It had the playful banter we'd come to expect between the two, something that had been completely MIA in ep 11. Shaw has gotten, especially after gunning down Blackwell, some sort of personal peace.

So the finale wrapped up some things rather nicely, without everyone kicking the bucket. Bravo show, bravo...

[Jipijapa]

Loved the last episode and found it surprisingly upbeat.  Am super glad they didn't kill off Harold.  John being killed off... I can live with.  

As for Shaw's final hit... I believe that if the Samaritan guy (I forgot his name) had begged for mercy, she would have given it.  But, he said "It's just business," and that was something she wasn't going to do any more.  In a way, she was killing her own past self.  The business-self.  I think from now on, Shaw will do what she does out of a sense of connection -- with Root, Root's memory, or whoever's.  No more doing things out of business.  

The only thing that struck me as false about this episode - and it was just a little thing really - was how cool and calm Fusco was acting when it looked like he and John were about to be finished off by the Samaritan goon cops or whoever they were.  I mean, Fusco has a kid; no WAY would he have been acting that equanimous in the face of doom.  But, as I said, it was just a small false note.

Really liked the use of Amy Acker in this episode.  She was both Harold's hallucination, and ours.  

But what was that bit with Shaw at Root's grave, seemingly dug up?  What was that about?  I didn't catch it, and I was wondering if it was some kind of tease about maybe cloning Root in the future or what not.

I watched this show from day one.  I was nearly ready to give up on it midway through the first season, but suddenly at the halfway point of Season 1 it got good, and never looked back.  (This is only the second show I've ever stuck with all the way through... after Fringe.)  I'll do a rewatch before the year is out.  I believe that (like Fringe) this show will gain many many more fans in the years to come.  It was really special and unique.

[Trey]

In the scene with the government people, after all cyber hell had broken loose, the chairwoman said they all knew it wasn't the Chinese and it was the senator's pet project, Northern Lights, that did all the damage.  He said Northern Lights had been shut down and was no longer in existence.  Were we supposed to believe him?

11 minutes ago, Jipijapa said:

But what was that bit with Shaw at Root's grave, seemingly dug up?  What was that about?  I didn't catch it, and I was wondering if it was some kind of tease about maybe cloning Root in the future or what not.

Shaw realized that Samaritan had dug up Root's body and taken the cochlear implant to listen to TM.  Root/Machine said she knew she should have had Root's body cremated but she just couldn't do it.

I guess the writers know how concerned we all were about Bear so they made sure it was known Bear was safe. 

I thought it was a great series finale and now I can move on.  If it had been a real downer with everyone dead and no hope left, I would have been traumatized for months:)

[StarBrand]

Quote

Shaw realized that Samaritan had dug up Root's body and taken the cochlear implant to listen to TM. 

Yeah, makes sense I guess. But digging up her grave? NOT COOL!

Also-call me stupid bit-what was the significance of Root's message to Shaw-that she was a "straight line, an arrow"?

Edited June 22, 2016 by StarBrand
spelling counts

[Rumsy4]

4 hours ago, StarBrand said:

I did laugh when it momentarily forgot what made it understand life, and Finch was all "this is perfect; you found the secret of life, and then forgot it!"

 

It seemed like a cool nod to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. lol

1 hour ago, Trey said:

In the scene with the government people, after all cyber hell had broken loose, the chairwoman said they all knew it wasn't the Chinese and it was the senator's pet project, Northern Lights, that did all the damage.  He said Northern Lights had been shut down and was no longer in existence.  Were we supposed to believe him?

Samaritan is destroyed. And the Machine clone is acting on its own. So, unless someone else builds an ASI, Northern Lights has nothing to work with.

[Jack Shaftoe]

No, I am not crying. That's not a tear rolling down my cheek. Honest.

Yay, Shaw and Bear made it. And a new chance for Finch and Grace, I hope those two crazy kids can make it work. Fusco made it too.

Clearly the writers had a lot more planned but under the circumstances it was a decent finale. It just wasn't "OMG, this is one of the best things I have ever watched!" like say If-Then-Else. And that's okay. It was tragic but it ended on a beautiful note of hope. I wish the ending had involved Control and the governemnt helping take down Samaritan (not out of any altruism but because they couldn't control it) but you can't have everything.

I tip my hat to the writers, the actors and the crew. If (miraculously) there is a spin-off I will be watching.

[Popples]

I had hoped that Bear would go with Fusco and his son; hopefully Shaw brings him over. Where was he during the episode anyway? I was concerned when Samaritan infiltrated the subway.

It probably would have been a bit silly, but I really, really wanted Harold's real last name to be "Bird" or "Byrd."

[Terrafamilia]

I thought the young cop was Mike Laskey, before he was assigned to Carter by HR. But I'm never very good at figuring this sort of thing out.

[Chorusgirl]

RIP Mr. Reese.  What are all the orthopedic surgeons in New York going to do now that they'll have no kneecaps to replace? 

[benteen]

John and Harold's true last names weren't important but still, I was always curious.

In an earlier season, we see John's file and his name is listed as John H. and his last name ended in s.  Anyone notice that we did see John's military tombstone at the end?  We don't get a full glance at it but it included some information about him that was known.  He was a sergeant in the Army and was born in May.  The first two letters of his last name were Ta.  So his last name began with Ta and ended in s. 

[kaygeeret]

Although there are many wonderful and insightful comments about the finale, I want to give a special shout out to Princess Lucky for her beautifully written and loving insights to this epi.

And thanks to Elee and Benteen for the links.

I believe I will rewatch the show when it becomes available somewhere, but for now it feels ended and right, albeit with unanswered questions particularly about the future effects of AI.

That will be for a future show, and they would do well to use POI as a template for great television!

Again RIP -I will miss you show and the posters here, thoughtful all.

[DarkRaichu]

Doh I just realized John getting blown up by a missile was a bookend for him.  He had been cheating death / living on borrowed time ever since that missile missed him in Ordos.  

[thuganomics85]

Had to work yesterday, but I managed to remain unspoiled for the finale, which I'm a bit proud of!

I figured there was going to be one big death at least, and Reese was an expected, but fitting choice.  I figured both Fusco and Shaw were safe; both had near death experiences already, Shaw was likely being set-up to "take over", etc.  So, I figured it would either be Reese, Finch, or both.  Part of me still thinks it would have been near perfect if it was both Reese and Finch going out together, but it also kind of makes sense that Reese would sacrifice himself for Finch.  Finch really did pull him out of the fire, and Reese would always remember that.  At the same time, I liked that Finch was willing to do the same.  Their bond was strong.  But Reese got his final moment.  RIP, Reese.  May you find peace.  Good show, Jim Caviezel.

Thrilled Fusco made it out and managed to still find time to bust out some quips and wisecracks.  He might have had one of the best characters arcs not only on this show, but any show.  I still remember how untrustworthy he was in the first season and how selfish he was, and only cared about himself.  But now?  He's a man who would put himself in harms way for the team, and believed in doing the right thing.  And Kevin Chapman always shined.  I really hope he goes on to great things from here. I worry that he might have a bit of a tougher road since he isn't an Emmy winner like Michael Emerson, a genre fav like Amy Acker, or more established/leading actor material like Caviezel and Sarah Shahi, so I hope another show wisely snaps him up and he keeps giving great character work.

Bringing Amy Acker back in person as The Machine in Reese and Finch's heads, was a nice touch and a good way to give the actress a final moment.

Glad Shaw took out Blackwell, as harsh as that might be.  And she got Bear, so she might be the biggest winner yet!   Yay, Shaw!  Sarah Shahi really brought it home this episode.

And then there is Finch!  And Michael Emerson!  Still stunned he actually got a happy ending.  I really, really want to know how is he going to be able to explain everything to Gracie, but good for him.  I hope he doesn't squander this and lives a somewhat happy life.  And, as usual, Michael Emerson continues to be the best.

Overall, I enjoyed the finale and the final season, even though I wished they gave it a full season, because I do think a few things were rushed.  They probably needed to have more time on Blackwell to really build up his character and make his death mean something.  Wish we got to check in on characters like Control, Leon, and Zoe.  Or have more of other characters like Senator Ross, who I suspect there was more to him and his shady dealings.  But for what they had to work with, I thought they stuck the landing and then some.  While I'm glad this show ended well and won't go down as one that wore out it's welcome, I will miss this show and it's cast.  Well done, to everyone involved!

[Tikichick]

Sad it's over.  Happy the ending was overall very satisfying.

More angry with the way the series was disrespected on the way out by the lack of being placed on the schedule and the apparent desire to burn off the episodes the way they did than I am about the show getting canceled.  Glad they left with story to tell at such a high level rather than shuffling off pathetically in a mess.

One of my very favorite things about the show was how all of the main characters had internal struggles with the light and dark sides of themselves.  The one of them not really shown to be fighting inner demons was interestingly enough the first one to die (Carter).