S08.E09: December: Berkshires County

[Slider]

Carole told Ramona what it would take to go to Lu's holiday party, so when Ramona turned and told Lu exactly what to do, she did it.  Too bad Carole didn't mean any of it and she's still being a bitch about it.  MOVE ON CAROLE!

[Knuckles]

Bethenny is one miserable human being. You would think making bank would make her happy, finally having a child would make her happy, getting that divorce would make her happy, buying the Hamptons house would make her happy, and having Andy Cohen in her back pocket would make her happy, but no, the bitch is full on miserable, 24/7.

Screeching and verbal assaults are not attractive. Forget the haircut and the professional makeup job...all rendered moot by your caterwauling. You did accomplish one thing...those fake breasts look bolted on...at full throttle, screaming at Luann, you could see clearly how terribly out of proportion they are...they resemble a medieval breastplate. You do have the money to the corrected, and next time use a reputable plastic surgeon, not someone who advertises on the subway.

Luann may or may not be my favorite, but she is a single woman, and a free human being..her choices are her own. Who she chooses to associate with is again her choice. The ranting munchkin Bethenny seems to think she has a vote.  And Ramona???are you kidding? Who in their right mind would spend more than one evening with Ramona. That Luann's beau, now finance, ran like the wind, speaks well of him.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, ninjago said:

This franchise has women who are all in very similar places in their lives, way moreso than the other RH shows.  They are pretty much hanging out in the same places, fighting the same battle against time and potentially dating the same, small group of men.  Ramona and Beth are more resentful of Luanne than jealous of her: Why was her divorce so amicable?  Why was her settlement so rich?  Why do so many men like her?  But, more than anything, why is she so teflon?  

Carole called Lu "superficial" and, yeah, I guess.  Or you could say Lu just doesn't let you see her sweat.  How is hiding in a bedroom, talking shit all night during an overnight party preferable to putting a smile on your face and trying to act nice for one night?

SO MUCH THIS!

[SheTalksShit]

I can't stand Bethenny. "Just own it!" WTF do you care, Bethenny? LuAnn doesn't have to answer to you. Get a life. 

It's like every little thing sets her off. I've had enough of her tantrums. I don't know why everyone kisses her ass and is so desperate to be her friend. She seems annoying, tightly wound, hysterical, volatile and just impossible to get along with or even have a normal conversation with. 

[lunastartron]

      1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

Your parting sentiment sounds a bit judgmental (whether intentional or not),

 

My parting sentiment meant exactly what I said...I am confused by the acceptance of sleeping with married men.  Maybe I live a sheltered puritanical life in comparison to people here, but it in my world we don't do backbends with a list of clauses and subclauses on when or when not it's okay to sleep with another woman's husband.  It is fairly black and white to me, you don't.  If that makes me judgmental in your eyes, so be it.

 

 

 

"Close your legs to married men" and "shit happens"? Are apples and spaceships. Kim Zolciak netted a wealthy married sugar daddy to specifically subsidize an affluent lifestyle; paraded with him both on national television and at numerous public social functions within the Atlanta metropolitan area; flashed an ostensible engagement ring from said paramour to Bravo cameras; etc etc ad nauseum.

In the sole ambiguous instance of LuAnn's nominal disregard for the proverbial "girl code," she tricked with (if we're using a very broad definition of the slang terminology since she insists no coitus occurred) a fellow vacationee who may or may not have been separated from his spouse.

So I guess every time a single 50-year-old woman elects to even hit it to first base with a stranger during the course of a night out, she bears a moral imperative to get his social security number and have Megan PI on speed dial so that she can run a formal background check on him in order to suss out whether or not *he* is remaining faithful to the vows that *he* took? And if her mind-reading abilities malfunction due to the copious amounts of liquor she's imbibed throughout the evening and she's consequently unable to telepathically discern the truth of her sexual partner's marital status, she needs to - what? scrub extra hard in the shower between her legs while repeating under her breath "I will not be a dirty whore, I will not be a dirty whore"?

'Cause Bethenny and Ramona alike need to get themselves loofahs (Ramona especially since she has invoked her Catholic faith as a feature of her personality over the duration of her stint on the show and - oh, shame of shames! - has been committing adultery with every man post-Mario since the Church does not recognize divorce). Carole should probably buy a passel for Kennedy in-laws like RFK, Jr. and his sister Kerry. Maybe someone should remind her as well that Michael Bergin very splashily accused poor Carolyn of carrying on an extramarital affair with him during her marriage to JFK, Jr?

As has been mentioned upthread, I am all for parsing the sexual morality of these women and the consistency of their own stated schemas in said context if we can talk about Bethenny's very recent fling with a partner who had been accused of sexual assault.

I keep reading this charge of "hypocrisy" vis-à-vis LuAnn. It's one that has always perplexed me since I can't recall her ever maligning anyone for their sexual voracity. Getting it with a 28-year-old and/or "the help" after excoriating Carole for doing the same? Sure. But spreading wide and inviting dudes to run a train on her? No, not by definition.

I am also befuddled by the idea that LuAnn should have been ejected from the premises or excluded from the trip but Bethenny is free to bemoan how "uncomfortable" she is at engaging with both Lu specifically and the cast in general. No one held a gun to her head and forced her to return to the show after three seasons away.

Edited June 2, 2016 by lunastartron

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

There was something wonky about the video/camera, but the audio would be one stream.  I think switching up the camera position or maybe different camera's account for the wonkiness, but I believe the audio, based on the retelling of the conversation by Jules, she confirms this.

What I mean is that the camera did not film as the video person walked outside.  It wasn't continuous filming (at least we weren't shown it as that.  There were 'cuts').  So there was a time that we weren't shown.  There is audio we didn't hear (unless Jules and Lu stopped talking which I doubt).  My point is that we didn't hear everything that was said. Whether it was the choice of the editors or not, it doesn't matter. 

Moving on.....

[Yours Truly]

44 minutes ago, JenFromCincy said:

My parting sentiment meant exactly what I said...I am confused by the acceptance of sleeping with married men.  Maybe I live a sheltered puritanical life in comparison to people here, but it in my world we don't do backbends with a list of clauses and subclauses on when or when not it's okay to sleep with another woman's husband.  It is fairly black and white to me, you don't.  If that makes me judgmental in your eyes, so be it.

So what's happens if you just didn't know? I think that's the part that seems confusing. Lu didn't set out to sleep with a man she KNEW was married just because she isn't beating herself up about it while on camera after the fact that's the same as if she knew before hand? I'm just finding that part a bit odd. I didn't know a man I slept with was married until after the fact. Did I feel bad? For about a nanosec before catching myself and refusing to to torture myself with the thought of this that and the other. Why should I chastise MYSELF for something some man did to his wife? The only behavior that I was a willing participant in was the hook up. Not the betrayal and although I do admit there should be a moment of sad reflection I do draw the line at punishing myself. There's nothing left to do about the situation anyway so why prolong any negative feelings over it? What, for show? Penance? Can't undo it so there really is no point to do anything but shrug and keep it moving. Life goes on.

[notnowimbusy]

I can't imagine that the rage Bethenney exhibits ends when the cameras stop.   No way does she go off on just these women.   Everyone in her life is at risk for her wrath and verbal tirades and that would include her own daughter.   Maybe not the top of her lungs screaming, but you can bet she unleashes the fast talking, angry tone when something isn't going her way and she wants Brynn to know she is the boss and will follow her rules.    I also bet Jason know just what to say/do to set her off, and despite the money, I suspect her anger is part of the reason the divorce is taking forever.     

I really can't get over how rude it was for B to go on that type of rant when she's been invited to someones home.   There was really nothing big, nothing so outrageous that she had to go off on Lu.   If any of these women had done that at her party in the Hamptons, Bethenney would have gone nuts.  "How dare . . .(fill in the blank)".     She is a bully, and has some serious issues that have nothing to do with this show.  

I really wanted Dorinda to go off on Ramona for her dog!  Seriously, once it's an accident, twice I would have had Ramona on the floor with a scrub brush.

[phoenix780]

I'm glad Luann vs. Bethenny is happening because it overwhelms things like Sonja's scene at the doctor. I thought that would get more discussion, I'm kind of glad it doesn't seem to be a major topic though I do have one thought to purge.

Can I shame her for that? Because I feel like we should all have a line that prevents us from doing what she did on camera. Just...some kind of limits, y'know, on what you'll do for airtime. Bikini waxes, medical procedures... They should stay unshown, imho, absent some compelling educational reason. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Countess Is Public Enemy #1 On The Real Housewives of New York City

During Dorinda's un-birthday weekend, everyone is ready to put LuAnn in her place.

[JenFromCincy]

3 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

So what's happens if you just didn't know? I think that's the part that seems confusing. Lu didn't set out to sleep with a man she KNEW was married just because she isn't beating herself up about it while on camera after the fact that's the same as if she knew before hand? I'm just finding that part a bit odd. I didn't know a man I slept with was married until after the fact. Did I feel bad? For about a nanosec before catching myself and refusing to to torture myself with the thought of this that and the other. Why should I chastise MYSELF for something some man did to his wife? The only behavior that I was a willing participant in was the hook up. Not the betrayal and although I do admit there should be a moment of sad reflection I do draw the line at punishing myself. There's nothing left to do about the situation anyway so why prolong any negative feelings over it? What, for show? Penance? Can't undo it so there really is no point to do anything but shrug and keep it moving. Life goes on.

I am not suggesting self-flagellation or penance, but acknowledging it's wrong is a far cry from that. Once you knew, it doesn't seem like you contemplated continuing the relationship. Not that Luann did either, but there didn't even seem to be a nanosecond of remorse or any "Oh, my! Had I known..." That's what I have an issue with, that's why I see her as not a girl's girl. People have the right to disagree with my assessment. I'm not God. I just know that as a wife, who has a daughter who is a wife, I don't prefer the idea of a world where it becomes acceptable to sleep with a married man because you aren't the one that took the vow.

[HumblePi]

29 minutes ago, phoenix780 said:

I'm glad Luann vs. Bethenny is happening because it overwhelms things like Sonja's scene at the doctor. I thought that would get more discussion, I'm kind of glad it doesn't seem to be a major topic though I do have one thought to purge.

Can I shame her for that? Because I feel like we should all have a line that prevents us from doing what she did on camera. Just...some kind of limits, y'know, on what you'll do for airtime. Bikini waxes, medical procedures... They should stay unshown, imho, absent some compelling educational reason. 

I totally agree that there's just some things that should be left to the imagination and not filmed. Having vaginal laser rejuvenation  is probably more common than we know or even want to know. This procedure does have some practical physical implications such as a problem stress incontinence, which many women have. Or, to tighten vaginal muscles after having multiple vaginal deliveries. Of course, neither are the reasons Sonja had the procedure, clearly it's to enhance sexual experiences.

[jaync]

Quote

Yes, that was an Adderall rage.  

Bitch is tweaked up on something, so she has no room to speak of John's alleged coke use. None.

Quote

WTH happened to her last night? She looked like she aged 10 years in one episode!

My jaw dropped when Carole arrived - I couldn't believe how busted she looked. Did Beth's ass fumes do that to her face?

Quote

I couldn't BELIEVE they finally showed them smoking. Is this the first time?

Sonja was shown smoking in St. Barts a few seasons ago, and Dorinda and Jules were smoking outside an event earlier this season.

I wonder if the person who's supposedly gossiping about Tom/Ramona/Lu is the woman who was captioned as "Bethenny's friend" at Dorinda's bra party? Anyway, I'ma need to see some receipts on this so-called friend.

On a shallow note, Lu's ass looked good in those jeans.

Edited June 2, 2016 by jaync

[Missmissie173]

Dorinda may want to buy some sage bundles and call a priest because her Berkshires’  house sure seems to have some bad mojo floating around inside those lacquered rooms.  What in the hell (maybe Dorinda’s house is kinda like hell) made Mount Saint Bethenny erupt like that?  One minute she is stowing her bags and the next Kaboom Town!

I swear it reminded me of a baseball game fight where the guys come out swinging from the dug outs, arms flaying and spit flying.

Hair styles, slutty behavior, mannish voices, dying relatives, pedophiles, questionable hostess  etiquette , momma’s homemade Birthday Cake and (probably) lions and tigers and bears, Oh My…Nothing was off limits in the Berkshires’ .

 NYC  Bethenny can get really; really mean and cranky even on a good day. Then you have Berkshires’ Beth:  

 

        She portrays herself as the Super Hero that will protect us all from LuAnn, who, according to Beth is aka Satan’s Handmaiden and the evil lying liar of all lies.

What does LuAnn know that Beth doesn’t want told?

 What happened in the Hampton’s over the summer?  All of Bethenny’s targets so far were there…Dorinda/John, LuAnn/assorted male company, Ramona & possibly Jules by proxy of being in the area. 

Hmmm.  So many questions, so few episodes left.

Or it could be Bethenny really is the whack job Jill, Kelly, Heather and Kristen said she was.

And for the record, I was always Team Bethenny - till now.

[Feline Queen]

6 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

What about Dorinda saying John sees a wedding and babies? She says I don't know if I want that. Um... don't know if you want babies Doris? Ye of 50 years of age don't know if you want babies? Reminds me of the Golden Girls episode where Blanche is dating a younger dude and pretending her daughter's baby is her own. 

 

Or the episode where Blanche thought she was pregnant when it was the start of menopause.

If John wants babies, he's going to have to trade Doris in for a much younger model. I'm wondering if that's eventually going to happen and she'll be bemoaning how much time she wasted with him. Also, if she's this willing to berate him when they're together, I can only imagine how much bashing she'll do once they break up. 

Whatever Jason has told his friends and family about Beth, she's helped verify that by her behavior.  She also proves the old adage that money can't buy happiness. 

Some of them whined about Luann putting on airs while in full Countess mode and yet now when she's more down to earth, they're still bitching. Talk about being in a no-win situation. Now that Beth has money, she's being just as elitist with those she deems beneath her, so she can take several seats. And bullshit title or not, Luann was still a Countess.  

Carole looked awful in this episode. While I agree that calling someone a pedophile is a extreme, she's the one who's keeping it in the spotlight. That's not the actions of someone who's mortified by being called that. I think she wants the other women to be jealous of her boy toy and is frustrated because they're not. 

I don't understand why Dorinda flipped out about the birthday cake. That whole scene didn't make any sense. She loses her shit over the dumbest stuff. 

I also didn't understand Ramona suddenly acting like Luann's BFF when she'd just had an argument with her about Tom.

Loved Lee Radizwill's twitter feed. Wow, she really doesn't like Beth, does she? Pointing out that Beth had to buy her own engagement ring while Luann got a nice canary diamond from Tom. LOL  

[JenFromCincy]

53 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

      1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

Your parting sentiment sounds a bit judgmental (whether intentional or not),

 

My parting sentiment meant exactly what I said...I am confused by the acceptance of sleeping with married men.  Maybe I live a sheltered puritanical life in comparison to people here, but it in my world we don't do backbends with a list of clauses and subclauses on when or when not it's okay to sleep with another woman's husband.  It is fairly black and white to me, you don't.  If that makes me judgmental in your eyes, so be it.

 

 

 

"Close your legs to married men" and "shit happens"? Are apples and spaceships. Kim Zolciak netted a wealthy married sugar daddy to specifically subsidize an affluent lifestyle; paraded with him both on national television and at numerous public social functions within the Atlanta metropolitan area; flashed an ostensible engagement ring from said paramour to Bravo cameras; etc etc ad nauseum.

In the sole ambiguous instance of LuAnn's nominal disregard for the proverbial "girl code," she tricked with (if we're using a very broad definition of the slang terminology since she insists no coitus occurred) a fellow vacationee who may or may not have been separated from his spouse.

So I guess every time a single 50-year-old woman elects to even hit it to first base with a stranger during the course of a night out, she bears a moral imperative to get his social security number and have Megan PI on speed dial so that she can run a formal background check on him in order to suss out whether or not *he* is remaining faithful to the vows that *he* took? And if her mind-reading abilities malfunction due to the copious amounts of liquor she's imbibed throughout the evening and she's consequently unable to telepathically discern the truth of her sexual partner's marital status, she needs to - what? scrub extra hard in the shower between her legs while repeating under her breath "I will not be a dirty whore, I will not be a dirty whore"?

'Cause Bethenny and Ramona alike need to get themselves loofahs (Ramona especially since she has invoked her Catholic faith as a feature of her personality over the duration of her stint on the show and - oh, shame of shames! - has been committing adultery with every man post-Mario since the Church does not recognize divorce). Carole should probably buy a passel for Kennedy in-laws like RFK, Jr. and his sister Kerry. Maybe someone should remind her as well that Michael Bergin very splashily accused poor Carolyn of carrying on an extramarital affair with him during her marriage to JFK, Jr?

As has been mentioned upthread, I am all for parsing the sexual morality of these women and the consistency of their own stated schemas in said context if we can talk about Bethenny's very recent fling with a partner who had been accused of sexual assault.

I keep reading this charge of "hypocrisy" vis-à-vis LuAnn. It's one that has always perplexed me since I can't recall her ever maligning anyone for their sexual voracity. Getting it with a 28-year-old and/or "the help" after excoriating Carole for doing the same? Sure. But spreading wide and inviting dudes to run a train on her? No, not by definition.

I am also befuddled by the idea that LuAnn should have been ejected from the premises or excluded from the trip but Bethenny is free to bemoan how "uncomfortable" she is at engaging with both Lu specifically and the cast in general. No one held a gun to her head and forced her to return to the show after three seasons away.

Talk about apples and spaceships. Since when is acknowledging something you've done being wrong equivalent to a Silkwood shower level scrub down? I don't find it beyond the pale to think that Luann should show a glimmer of guilt for doing to someone else's wife what the Ethiopian Princess did to her.

Also, Luann lied despite being taped about the pirate, so I don't necessarily take her word in cases that make her look bad.

[zoeysmom]

11 minutes ago, JenFromCincy said:

Talk about apples and spaceships. Since when is acknowledging something you've done being wrong equivalent to a Silkwood shower level scrub down? I don't find it beyond the pale to think that Luann should show a glimmer of guilt for doing to someone else's wife what the Ethiopian Princess did to her.

Also, Luann lied despite being taped about the pirate, so I don't necessarily take her word in cases that make her look bad.

Luann didn't sleep with the guy.  What is she suppose to admit to doing? So why would she be bemoaning a wife (maybe) somewhere in the world, who may or may not have been hurt?  Maybe the mythical wife of the unknown man was the one ending the marriage.  If she didn't sleep with the guy why is this even as issue?  I would think the naked man Ramona brought home would be far more likely to get a side-eye-the very married Ramona, who reconciled with her husband.  Why is it Ramona can leave naked men laying around the house and no suspects her of doing the deed?

Luann nor the pirate were married or even engaged.  Luann did express remorse for hurting Jacques.

I am still wondering why the married women get a pass?  I am pretty certain Jason Hoppy, Simon Barney and various other ex-husbands of the RH were none too thrilled with their wives sleeping with other men.

This is about Bethenny who flipped out over being teased about a hairstyle going for the jugular on Luann.  Bethenny whose husband wandered the streets of NY wearing his wedding ring, while she was stepping out days after separating with a number of different men and still living under the same roof as Jason with their toddler daughter.   Where is Bethenny's acknowledgment of wrongdoing?  This is about Bethenny putting herself so far above Luann.

[WireWrap]

35 minutes ago, Feline Goddess said:

Or the episode where Blanche thought she was pregnant when it was the start of menopause.

If John wants babies, he's going to have to trade Doris in for a much younger model. I'm wondering if that's eventually going to happen and she'll be bemoaning how much time she wasted with him. Also, if she's this willing to berate him when they're together, I can only imagine how much bashing she'll do once they break up. 

Whatever Jason has told his friends and family about Beth, she's helped verify that by her behavior.  She also proves the old adage that money can't buy happiness. 

Some of them whined about Luann putting on airs while in full Countess mode and yet now when she's more down to earth, they're still bitching. Talk about being in a no-win situation. Now that Beth has money, she's being just as elitist with those she deems beneath her, so she can take several seats. And bullshit title or not, Luann was still a Countess.  

Carole looked awful in this episode. While I agree that calling someone a pedophile is a extreme, she's the one who's keeping it in the spotlight. That's not the actions of someone who's mortified by being called that. I think she wants the other women to be jealous of her boy toy and is frustrated because they're not. 

I don't understand why Dorinda flipped out about the birthday cake. That whole scene didn't make any sense. She loses her shit over the dumbest stuff. 

I also didn't understand Ramona suddenly acting like Luann's BFF when she'd just had an argument with her about Tom.

Loved Lee Radizwill's twitter feed. Wow, she really doesn't like Beth, does she? Pointing out that Beth had to buy her own engagement ring while Luann got a nice canary diamond from Tom. LOL  

Just an FYI, that is not the real  lee Radizwill, just someone using her name for a twitter account. LOL

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

What I mean is that the camera did not film as the video person walked outside.  It wasn't continuous filming (at least we weren't shown it as that.  There were 'cuts').  So there was a time that we weren't shown.  There is audio we didn't hear (unless Jules and Lu stopped talking which I doubt).  My point is that we didn't hear everything that was said. Whether it was the choice of the editors or not, it doesn't matter. 

Moving on.....

Luann admits in her blog that she was only focusing on herself in that conversation:

I think that hostesses have a responsibility to manage their guests, so when I talked to Juleson Dorinda’s front porch, I was still reeling from my encounter with Bethenny. I realize now that she was distracted with her father’s health issues and that I should have been more empathetic to what was going on with her instead of focusing on me, but I was under attack. She’s right, fighting with Bethenny is not life and death, it’s optional!

[shoegal]

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

What I mean is that the camera did not film as the video person walked outside.  It wasn't continuous filming (at least we weren't shown it as that.  There were 'cuts').  So there was a time that we weren't shown.  There is audio we didn't hear (unless Jules and Lu stopped talking which I doubt).  My point is that we didn't hear everything that was said. Whether it was the choice of the editors or not, it doesn't matter. 

Moving on.....

Not necessarily if there were two cameras. Surely there was not just one camera filming the whole evening, so it could easily be continuous filming but from different cameras with no drop in audio. 

[mwell345]

This is from Tamara Tattles - she tried to recap the show

 

http://tamaratattles.com/2016/06/01/real-housewives-of-new-york-recap-december-berkshires-country/

This is the interesting part:

"... I recall that Andy Cohen said last week on WWHL that he feels this is one of the top 5 RHONY shows of all time.  This is a clear indication Andy Cohen has no idea at all what the audience wants to see."

She's absolutely right.  He is totally out of touch.  Clearly he wants Bethenny and more Bethenny and more Bethenny, who ended her blog with this:

"This was a perfectly idiotic Housewives episode, so I'm happy, and I reckon Andy Cohen is too."

So what...she's a banshee because it makes Andy happy? What happened to owning it?

[njbchlover]

4 hours ago, coops said:

Well, gosh. I really wanted to hate Bethenny in this episode the way she went for LuAnn like a bat out of hell just because *gasp* LuAnn sleeps around. The trouble is I couldn't hate her for two reasons. One, she has self awareness, so even after she makes a fool of herself she realises it and feels ashamed. How long did it take for Jill Zarin to realise she was in the wrong way back when? At least Beth can own it when she takes it too far. Contrast Beth's shame after the fight to LuAnn's insensitive prattling at Jules as she worries about her sick dad. Even though Bethenny was in the wrong she always managed to come best off.

Secondly I think I know where all this anger is coming from. In season 1-3 of Rhony LuAnn looked down on Bethenny and treated her like dirt. Now Bethenny has ascended higher than LuAnn she just can't help but dish out some payback. Think about how you'd feel if you were forced to hang out with the kids at school that used to bully you, or perhaps an ex boss that treated you badly but no longer has any power over you. I for one would do exactly what Bethenny is doing to LuAnn and I'd love every moment of it.

I'll agree that Bethenny was aware, after the fact, that she totally lost control and acted completely inappropriately.  I don't know how ashamed she felt, though. Yes, Luann did go prattling on and on to Jules about how she had just been treated badly, but Bethenny didn't apologize to anyone for her behavior (Luann or Dorinda) - she continued to try to justify herself by prattling to Carole, and then, Ramona and Jules, when they all went looking for her upstairs.  There was no remorse there, at all.  Self-awareness, yes, but no remorse.  She pushed it even further by sneaking around the house and eavesdropping outside of doorways and in hallways to give herself more ammunition to fire off at Luann.  She wanted to slay Luann, she wanted Luann to be prostrate with sorrow and fright at the almighty mouth that is called Bethenny, and Luann remained, for the most part, calm and did not lash out back.  And, that just added fuel to Bethenny's fire.  Bethenny strikes me as the type of person who, when she's looking for a fight, she won't be satisfied until she is involved in a knock-down, drag-out war of words.  If her opponent doesn't rise to the bait, she continues to rail until she gets the reaction she wants.  

Bethenny continues to spew that she is "above all this bullshit" and has "moved on", etc. (words we hear from all the Housewives, but we know are not true), so why does she feel the need to get even with Luann?  Back when Bethenny felt slighted by Luann, when Bethenny was a poor, little working girl, just trying to find her way in the big city (snark....), she didn't hold back anything then, either.  She spoke her mind.  When was that scene at fashion week when Bethenny called Luann a snake - Season 2 or 3?  That was a long time ago, and before her big deal with Jim Beam for the Skinny Girl product line.  Rich Bethenny or poor Bethenny has never had a problem expressing her dislike for someone.

[LibertarianSlut]

So...just taking inventory for a second...

It's ok for Carole to joke that it's "very Asian" of Jules to bring games to the Berkshires, but she took such issue with Luann self-identifying as "American Indian" that it became a reunion topic for Season Five?

Is that because Carole's persona back then was hippy, granola-eating, "I'm gonna visit Occupy Wall Street and get my face painted," self-appointed protector of all that is PC, and now shes's just a girl (with a puppy and a ki-en) looking for a younger chef to love her? Or is she simply inconsistent and hypocritical?

[JenFromCincy]

35 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I am still wondering why the married women get a pass?  I am pretty certain Jason Hoppy, Simon Barney and various other ex-husbands of the RH were none too thrilled with their wives sleeping with other men.

 

They don't, but I wasn't discussing them. I was discussing what occurred during the show.  You can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.  That's no different than the "so and so was doing it" justifications I tried to get away with when I was a kid.  The response to which was always, "If so and so jumped off a bridge, would you?"  

We just see things differently.  Nothing wrong with that.  You believe Lu's version, I don't.  You think because she and Jacques weren't married, that the pirate thing is excusable.  I don't, because they were in a committed relationship (or so she proclaimed) and I don't believe that if Jacques did the same thing to her, that she would be speaking in French to her T&C pal and saying, "You know Jacques, he'll never change."  I could be wrong.  Even if I am it doesn't change my opinion that if you hook up with married men, you aren't a girl's girl.  I'm old school, I guess. 

[shoegal]

1 minute ago, N. Bluth said:

So...just taking inventory for a second...

It's ok for Carole to joke that it's "very Asian" of Jules to bring games to the Berkshires, but she took such issue with Luann self-identifying as "American Indian" that it became a reunion topic for Season Five?

Is that because Carole's persona back then was hippy, granola-eating, "I'm gonna visit Occupy Wall Street and get my face painted," self-appointed protector of all that is PC, and now shes's just a girl (with a puppy and a ki-en) looking for a younger chef to love her? Or is she simply inconsistent and hypocritical?

Carole was speaking of the term "Indian", which is considered to be an offensive term, versus the proper term of Native American.  Asian is the proper term, the offending term for Asian would be "Oriental".  Doesn't seem inconsistent. 

I was a little taken aback when Carole made the Asian reference, because I wasn't aware that Asians bring games. Learn something new every day!

[BananaRama]

Quote

This is the third episode in a row that featured dog poop.  Ramona needs to pick up her dog's poop - not Dorinda.

Bethenny should be mad at Luann for trying to take credit for Skinny Girl, asking her who she is sleeping with, implying that Bethenny is copying her hairstyle and for being a hypocrite.  Luann is a hypocrite for jumping all over Carole for dating Adam after he broke up with Luann's niece, but it is perfectly fine for Luann to date someone who Ramona went on 7 dates with - that doesn't sound right.

[motorcitymom65]

3 hours ago, Pollock said:

She was in damage control mode in the bedroom with the two other members of her Rush cover band. "I should'nt have called her a whore, I'm a whore too" yadiyada.  Or something like that. Like she didn't mean it as a insult because she's one too but being better at life, at least she owns it unlike LuAnn. As if I'm gonna believe that wasn't a bullshit scene...

She realized quickly how the slut shaming would look like with a large portion of the fanbase of the show (women like me who think empowering women isn't just telling them to hire a white guy to be the face of their company while talking shit about my other female co-workers) and voilà, here come 5 minutes of her spining the shit out of her "epic" rant. Thanks Bravo. 

I don't think it had anything to do with her realizing she went to far and female fans would be offended.  From the previews next week, she is going to call her a big old whore all over again. 

[ryebread]

4 hours ago, parisprincess said:

I loved watching Bethenny ranting while Luann sat there, for the most part calm, with a smile on her face.  The more Luann didn't react and scream back at Bethenny, the more loud and screechy Bethenny got, until she practically had smoke coming out of her ears.  She's not use to someone not being intimidated by her.  Luann isn't my favorite by far, but I enjoyed seeing her get Bethenny to lose her shit on such a grand scale.

I loved watching Heather and Carole ranting while Aviva sat there, for the most part calm, with a smile on her face.  The more Aviva didn't react and scream back at Heather and Carole, the more loud and screechy Heather and Carole got, until they practically had smoke coming out of their ears.  They're not used to someone not being intimidated by them.  Aviva isn't my favorite by far, but I enjoyed seeing her get Heather and Carole to lose their shit on such a grand scale.

Like you, I enjoyed watching Lu get Beth to lose it.  Very similar to how I felt when Aviva did the same to Heather and Carole. 

I couldn't stand Aviva but I deplored Heather and Carole for their inability to not lose their shit in the face of such an unworthy opponent.  Imo, the minute you start ranting and MFing this or that, or getting face grabby, or calling someone a slut, you've lost the argument.

[ryebread]

2 hours ago, notnowimbusy said:

I can't imagine that the rage Bethenney exhibits ends when the cameras stop.   No way does she go off on just these women.   Everyone in her life is at risk for her wrath and verbal tirades and that would include her own daughter.   Maybe not the top of her lungs screaming, but you can bet she unleashes the fast talking, angry tone when something isn't going her way and she wants Brynn to know she is the boss and will follow her rules.   

Agree.  Brynn was just a fetus on Scary Island when Bethenny screamed at Kelly to "GO to sleep.  GO TO SLEEP!!" And it was also the first time I feared for that little fetus for having Beth as a mother.  Can't ya just hear her screaming that same phrase at a restless toddler who wants to keep mama up all night?

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Carole was speaking of the term "Indian", which is considered to be an offensive term, versus the proper term of Native American.  Asian is the proper term, the offending term for Asian would be "Oriental".  Doesn't seem inconsistent. 

I was a little taken aback when Carole made the Asian reference, because I wasn't aware that Asians bring games. Learn something new every day!

But Carole was wrong because many people in the community use American Indian .

[shoegal]

Just now, biakbiak said:

But Carole was wrong because many people in the community use American Indian .

...but many also see it as offensive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy. So she wasn't wrong, just probably getting into it unnecessarily.

[zoeysmom]

11 minutes ago, JenFromCincy said:

They don't, but I wasn't discussing them. I was discussing what occurred during the show.  You can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.  That's no different than the "so and so was doing it" justifications I tried to get away with when I was a kid.  The response to which was always, "If so and so jumped off a bridge, would you?"  

We just see things differently.  Nothing wrong with that.  You believe Lu's version, I don't.  You think because she and Jacques weren't married, that the pirate thing is excusable.  I don't, because they were in a committed relationship (or so she proclaimed) and I don't believe that if Jacques did the same thing to her, that she would be speaking in French to her T&C pal and saying, "You know Jacques, he'll never change."  I could be wrong.  Even if I am it doesn't change my opinion that if you hook up with married men, you aren't a girl's girl.  I'm old school, I guess. 

I am sorry but very married Ramona and Bethenny were on the show and were on T&C and embarrassingly for Bethenny having issues with Ramona flirting with a guy she was trying to wrangle.  That was pretty much on the show.  Certainly the naked man married Ramona left behind was on the show-marital status unknown.

I don't know what version of what story but it is fairly clear the Scot left before bedtime.  It is Ramona that didn't see her entertainment for the late night home.

I don't get the girl's girl thing as all of them except Dorinda and Jules have behaved in a fashion that is inconsistent with this informal code.  Bethenny and Ramona dating and f*cking while married and Carole going after the niece of a friend who had confided in her.  I just don't see where Bethenny is above Luann. 

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

She was drunk, on vacation and SINGLE. If I were in her situation and not of sober mind and then confronted the next day with what I may or may not have done, I would have had the same reaction as her, partly because I'm not going to entertain comments that are inviting others to shame and judge me. Just because the guy isn't a part of the show doesn't mean that judgement should be redirected at Luann (or any woman in her position). He is the one that broke his wedding vows and not a single one of them called out his behaviour - it was all directed at Luann. If you're in a monogamous relationship and you cheat on your partner, that's an asshole move. If you are sober and you know you're hooking up with someone who is supposed to be in a monogamous relationship, it's shady and lacks empathy for the other partner, but if we're going to judge, the onus lies with the person who is doing the cheating. If you drunk hook up with someone who has a partner, shit happens. Cheating is far too common nowadays and I know a few people who were on Luann's side of the coin. A couple of them felt bad, a couple of them didn't beat themselves over it but that experience was not a testament to their character or their ability to have a healthy, monogamous relationship. It's easy to judge the world black and white but there's a saying 'don't judge me because I sin differently than you'. At the end of the day, we're all imperfect and if we aren't harming others, then we shouldn't be made to feel bad for things that are not our responsibility to own.

Well, she wasn't single and she's always drunk, so...

She called Jaques, whom I believe she was living with at the time, to lie to him.

I agree that it's possible she didn't know he was married, and it's the married persons fault in that case.  Also, no need for Luann to "rend her garments" when she found out.  I thought her reply was fine, a shrug and I think she implied "Shit happens."

That's the thing though, I don't care that these women fought, I don't need to pick a side or assign blame, it's all popcorn time for me.  Dance little monkeys!  Earn your money!  From what I could see they were all at fault to some degree or another, well, probably not Jules. 

Oh yeah, speaking of Jules, I think she came for a couple of reasons. 

• She wasn't that far from home or her dad.
• It's a very big deal to come to the individual wives "events."
• Dorinda is her friend.
• She's the new kid on the block and it was her job.

As for the rest of them?  They were all right and they were all gloriously wrong!  I love this group to pieces, I really do.  Even Carole and Jules pulled their weight with that closet scene!  Rich people wall paper!  Ha!  You are really a bad spy!  Double Ha.

I hope we get more next week, I really do.

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, shoegal said:

...but many also see it as offensive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy. So she wasn't wrong, just probably getting into it unnecessarily.

Carole stated no one uses the term and that everyone knows that it's offensive to use it so to me that means she was dead wrong.

[zoeysmom]

17 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Carole was speaking of the term "Indian", which is considered to be an offensive term, versus the proper term of Native American.  Asian is the proper term, the offending term for Asian would be "Oriental".  Doesn't seem inconsistent. 

I was a little taken aback when Carole made the Asian reference, because I wasn't aware that Asians bring games. Learn something new every day!

I think it is a stereotyping a group of people that made Carole's comment questionable not that she used the inoffensive term.

Kind of like Bethenny saying she is an honorary black woman.  Not that she used the term black, that she made such a stupid statement.

[shoegal]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

 

I don't know what version of what story but it is fairly clear the Scot left before bedtime.  It is Ramona that didn't see her entertainment for the late night home.

I don't think that's clear at all, I was always under the impression that Ramona sent the guy upstairs because his buddy was occupied with LuAnn in her room and he was looking for a little for himself. Then they left in the morning, which is why LuAnn was so worried about H&C finding a man in her room, because he had just left.

[lunastartron]

5 minutes ago, shoegal said:

...but many also see it as offensive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy. So she wasn't wrong, just probably getting into it unnecessarily.

Presently, the largest media apparatus oriented around indigenous issues is Indian Country Today. Many commenters there and on other tribal online outlets use "NDN" as a self-referential shorthand. Various contributors to ICT include veterans of the American Indian Movement (AIM), the most notable indigenous rights activist collective in history. Founders and early leaders of AIM actually participated in the armed standoff with the United States government at Wounded Knee in the early 1970s.

Carole confidently declared "anyone" who's passed "the third grade" knows that the term "Indian" is "racist." This is a baldly ignorant and uneducated statement.

For a champion of Indian (oops, guess I'm racist) issues, she was also blithely unaware that a wealthy white woman (erroneously) lecturing an ethnic minority about the proper manner in which to self-identify is actually quite colonialistic.

In pre-season commentary and the trailer footage, Carole expressed exasperation with Jules's consistent identification as Asian.

For such an educated and broad-minded intellectual, she's awfully preoccupied with how colleagues of other cultural/racial backgrounds describe themselves.

[Mondrianyone]

31 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Carole was speaking of the term "Indian", which is considered to be an offensive term, versus the proper term of Native American.  Asian is the proper term, the offending term for Asian would be "Oriental".  Doesn't seem inconsistent. 

I was a little taken aback when Carole made the Asian reference, because I wasn't aware that Asians bring games. Learn something new every day!

10 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I think it is a stereotyping a group of people that made Carole's comment questionable not that she used the inoffensive term.

Kind of like Bethenny saying she is an honorary black woman.  Not that she used the term black, that she made such a stupid statement.

I think the larger point is that a person who isn't a member of a particular ethnic, racial, religious, whatever group should not be telling a person who is a member of that group what the right way is for that person to refer to him- or herself.  It's beyond the height of arrogance.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Mondrianyone
Great minds.

[BananaRama]

I miss Heather.  She is decent and smart.  She made precise observations about the other housewives.  The show needs one person who isn't a lunatic. I also liked Carole more when she was friends with Heather. 

[JenFromCincy]

7 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I am sorry but very married Ramona and Bethenny were on the show and were on T&C and embarrassingly for Bethenny having issues with Ramona flirting with a guy she was trying to wrangle.  That was pretty much on the show.  Certainly the naked man married Ramona left behind was on the show-marital status unknown.

I don't know what version of what story but it is fairly clear the Scot left before bedtime.  It is Ramona that didn't see her entertainment for the late night home.

I don't get the girl's girl thing as all of them except Dorinda and Jules have behaved in a fashion that is inconsistent with this informal code.  Bethenny and Ramona dating and f*cking while married and Carole going after the niece of a friend who had confided in her.  I just don't see where Bethenny is above Luann. 

By "the show" I meant last night's episode, not the show in general. Sorry for not clarifying. This all began with me asking why Lu hooking up with a married man was suddenly okay because people hate Bethenny more. Nowhere have I said Bethenny is above Luann. I have stated several times since the beginning that I no longer have a favorite on this show. That's why it doesn't matter to me who else does what. I'm basing my opinion solely on behavior.

[ElDosEquis]

They should do a special "people's couch" at the homes of these fucking hags as they watch themselves on the tube.

[rehoboth]

"I decorated, I cooked, I made it nice!"

 

This year's t-shirt.

[njbchlover]

3 minutes ago, rehoboth said:

"I decorated, I cooked, I made it nice!"

 

This year's t-shirt.

I would totally wear that!!  :-)

[QuinnM]

The main point of interest to me is no one wanted anything to do with Luann.  Ramona was the only one coming within a 10 foot pole of her.  Everyone bailed on her.  Just interesting.  That wasn't because of Bethenny it was because no one wanted to be within 10 feet of her.  This was obviously something most of them had been hoping for for years.  Even poor Jules just kinda wandered away from Lu whenever she came around.  Very interesting.

I was trying to remember who it was that invited Kelly to that girls night.  (The famouse line 'What are you doing here without Dorinda?')  Was it Luann?  If it was then this crazy stuff has been brewing for a long time.  The other point is that everyone, including Ramona, ended up yelling at Lu.  She interrupts.  She lies in the face of all evidence to the contrary and people just finally lose it.  So Bethenny lost it with her.  Dorinda lost it with her.  Ramona barely kept it together and the only thing that stopped her was Luann finally kinda going ok maybe I did. (Referencing that she never said she came up with the SkinnyGirl name) 

So fascinating and the highest ratings of the season.  I'm thinking we see more of this.

[shoegal]

38 minutes ago, lunastartron said:

 

For a champion of Indian (oops, guess I'm racist) issues, she was also blithely unaware that a wealthy white woman (erroneously) lecturing an ethnic minority about the proper manner in which to self-identify is actually quite colonialistic.

"An ethnic minority"?? Let's get real here, we are talking about two wealthy white women. I am 1/16th Cherokee, but my blonde hair, blue eyed, upper middle class white woman self would never run around calling myself an "Indian", let alone an "ethnic minority". You think when LuAnn checks the box, she doesn't identify as Caucasian??

Edited June 3, 2016 by shoegal

[zoeysmom]

51 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I don't think that's clear at all, I was always under the impression that Ramona sent the guy upstairs because his buddy was occupied with LuAnn in her room and he was looking for a little for himself. Then they left in the morning, which is why LuAnn was so worried about H&C finding a man in her room, because he had just left.

The guy left.  That is why the other guy didn't have a way home.  No one ever said or witnessed the guy going into Luann's bedroom.

They didn't leave together.  Luann's friend left first.  So if the guy had been getting busy with Luann when he exited would he have not picked up his friend? 

There was nothing to indicate the man had just left. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by zoeysmom

[HumblePi]

I only have one thing to say to both Bethenny and Luann (but more for Bethenny) for destroying the happy non-birthday pre-Christmas celebration at Dorinda's beautiful home when she COOKED and made everything NICE!

Edited June 4, 2016 by HumblePi

[shoegal]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The guy left.  That is why the other guy didn't have a way home.  No one ever said or witnessed the guy going into Luann's bedroom.

They didn't leave together.  Luann's friend left first.  So if the guy had been getting busy with Luann when he exited would he have not picked up his friend? 

There was nothing to indicate the man had just left.  Folks it is pretty simple.   

The guy left without his friend? No, the guy stayed and didn't have a ride because his friend was still there. There was everything to indicate the guys had just left that morning, most notably LuAnn's angst that she was almost caught with the guy still in her room!

Edited June 3, 2016 by shoegal

[RHJunkie]

3 hours ago, JenFromCincy said:

My parting sentiment meant exactly what I said...I am confused by the acceptance of sleeping with married men.  Maybe I live a sheltered puritanical life in comparison to people here, but it in my world we don't do backbends with a list of clauses and subclauses on when or when not it's okay to sleep with another woman's husband.  It is fairly black and white to me, you don't.  If that makes me judgmental in your eyes, so be it.

Please don't twist my words for the sake of your argument and for the opportunity to imply that I lack the kind of morals that you grew up with. It is completely wrong on your part to assume that not co-signing the defamation of someone's character is my acceptance of their actions. There is a stark (and very important) difference in speaking to someone's actions versus speaking to their character. In your black and white world, should every woman assume onus to get police reports, psychological testing and hire private detectors to ensure that every man they date isn't a cheating asshole on the down low? Is that how women in a black and white world avoid the labels of being sluts and whores? Context is everything and it's determinant of the level of fault someone has in a situation. You are only entertaining the notion that Luann must have known he was married and even by that merit, I said 'shit happens' because it was not a sober decision and given that the man was far more culpable for cheating on his wife, Luann did not owe the women (or the viewers) a reaction or explanation just so that she could be spared the insults. It makes a big difference if it was addressed with 'Luann, you slept with a married man and showed no remorse afterward. I honestly think that's shady of you'. They turned it into 'Luann, you're a slut, you fuck everyone and sleep with married men' and that's what you're going to co-sign based on Turks and Caicos? I don't care what coloured world anyone lives in, there's no way anyone is going to convince me that a singular incident warrants nailing someone to the cross with accusations to their character. And for the record it is not judgement in my eyes, it's simply judgement, fact. If you are going to make a judgement about someone's character, you are being judgmental. We're all judgmental to some extent and it's likely never appropriate to be that way but all I'm saying is let's not slander someone's character based on one incident that we believe they are guilty of when there is no evidence that this is consistently their behaviour.  

[seasick]

It just hit me today that I think these pokes at Bethenny's brand are probably the joke of this season,-- compliments of the producers.

I think Sonja,  LuAnn and Dorinda's boyfriend  were all given the format of the poke, then sent to deliver.  Sonja had it easy with the phony "Tipsy Girl" launch.. acting her typically clueless,'  "Oh Bethenny won't mind.  Can't wait to show her!"  "I'm sure she'll be happy for me!'    Bethenny is furious but she is 'above' losing it on dumb Sonja.  She pretends (to Sonja ) that it's just an insulting hair in her ass. and "Be gone!"   But she's beside herself when she relays the insult to the others. 

What's-his-name did his Skinny Cow accusation in the most awkward way at the bra party,  but got it in the show,  Bethenny goes ballistic and it fuels a couple of days of Beth stomping and bitching and talking to herself in the mirror.

LuAnn however---She is smooth!!   She was the giveaway for me.   She would say it ...then deny it;  Agree with something Bethenny  *supposedly* said.. but didn't,  ....then pretend it was Bethenny who misunderstood.  

Cat and Mouse.    She was cool as a cucumber and I caught the glimmer of joy in LuAnns eyes,  --fucking with Bethenny-- and making her crazy.  When Beth was screaming  "NO YOU DIDN'T !!   NO YOU DIDN'T.! !!   Lu slurped it up with a big spoon. and never flinched.   She made Ramona look like an amateur.      

Three attacks on B's brand doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.  Heeee!  I hope they keep it up.