JenFromCincy

Not trying to convince you of anything. You stated your opinions, I stated mine. They happen to differ. End of story.

By "the show" I meant last night's episode, not the show in general. Sorry for not clarifying. This all began with me asking why Lu hooking up with a married man was suddenly okay because people hate Bethenny more. Nowhere have I said Bethenny is above Luann. I have stated several times since the beginning that I no longer have a favorite on this show. That's why it doesn't matter to me who else does what. I'm basing my opinion solely on behavior.

They don't, but I wasn't discussing them. I was discussing what occurred during the show. You can't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. That's no different than the "so and so was doing it" justifications I tried to get away with when I was a kid. The response to which was always, "If so and so jumped off a bridge, would you?" We just see things differently. Nothing wrong with that. You believe Lu's version, I don't. You think because she and Jacques weren't married, that the pirate thing is excusable. I don't, because they were in a committed relationship (or so she proclaimed) and I don't believe that if Jacques did the same thing to her, that she would be speaking in French to her T&C pal and saying, "You know Jacques, he'll never change." I could be wrong. Even if I am it doesn't change my opinion that if you hook up with married men, you aren't a girl's girl. I'm old school, I guess.

Talk about apples and spaceships. Since when is acknowledging something you've done being wrong equivalent to a Silkwood shower level scrub down? I don't find it beyond the pale to think that Luann should show a glimmer of guilt for doing to someone else's wife what the Ethiopian Princess did to her. Also, Luann lied despite being taped about the pirate, so I don't necessarily take her word in cases that make her look bad.

I am not suggesting self-flagellation or penance, but acknowledging it's wrong is a far cry from that. Once you knew, it doesn't seem like you contemplated continuing the relationship. Not that Luann did either, but there didn't even seem to be a nanosecond of remorse or any "Oh, my! Had I known..." That's what I have an issue with, that's why I see her as not a girl's girl. People have the right to disagree with my assessment. I'm not God. I just know that as a wife, who has a daughter who is a wife, I don't prefer the idea of a world where it becomes acceptable to sleep with a married man because you aren't the one that took the vow.

My parting sentiment meant exactly what I said...I am confused by the acceptance of sleeping with married men. Maybe I live a sheltered puritanical life in comparison to people here, but it in my world we don't do backbends with a list of clauses and subclauses on when or when not it's okay to sleep with another woman's husband. It is fairly black and white to me, you don't. If that makes me judgmental in your eyes, so be it.

That's the thing. The unwitting spouse gets harmed. Subject to humiliation, their world being rocked, and everything else that comes with it. No one ever said the man didn't hold culpability, and I agree he holds most of the culpability. However, it is in poor taste on Luann's part and Bethenny's right in that Luann is anything but a girls' girl and if she were in my circle, I wouldn't want her near my husband. As for the everyone is imperfect thing, yeah we're all imperfect and make mistakes. There's a huge difference between that and making conscious choices to disregard personal responsibility. It does truly boggle my mind that as viewers we have gone from rallying around NeNe's "Close your legs to married men" battle cry to "S happens."

You're willing to give Luann the benefit of the doubt, but based on her reaction (a "whatever" shrug and laughing when Sonja said s*** happens), I'm not. Also, the guy had no problem telling whoever told Kristen, but it didn't come up with Luann? Possible, but for me, doubtful.

I get the annoyance with Bethenny, but she makes for great TV. This season with all its insanity is at least fun to watch. As for the slut shaming. I agree that two single adults should be able to do what they want, but when did it become okay to sleep with married people? Lu didn't deny it when it was thrown out there. Why is that all of a sudden okay just because people hate Bethenny more?

I didn't notice that, but I did notice that she had LeeAnne' s contact name as Loud Mouth. LOL I also noticed that there didn't seem to be a single scene during Travis' s birthday where Brandi and Bryan were together. That was really odd to me. Mark was rude to ask Zuri what kind of cake she wanted when it was too late to do anything about it. It was like T.Dubrow going on about onion rings. I like Travis more after watching him take Stephanie's needs and opinions into account.

That's not where it came from for me. I didn't feel like she was being completely honest, but lying doesn't make you a hypocrite. My view of her being a hypocrite comes from situations like her chastising Carole for going to a "Sonja young" level by seeing Adam, when all of them have said Luann's done the same thing. Is there anything wrong with her seeing young guys? Nope. But there is something wrong with shaming someone else for behavior that you participate in. Like getting falling down drunk. She's an adult, has every right to do it, but you don't gang up on Ramona and trash her drinking when you're as bad, but smart enough to do it off camera. It's the whole remove the plank before you point out a speck scenario.

In what may go down as the least agreed with post ever on here, I offer this: Bethenny's problem isn't with LuAnn sleeping around, it's with LuAnn not being real. Being real (and a real B in many cases) is what gained Bethenny her popularity. She sees it as a fairly simple formula Be Real + Call People Out When They Aren't = Ratings. If you look at her twitter feed with people commenting that she should tone it down a little, her response is always some version of- If I did that the show would be boring as *bleep*. Depending on the season we get Lu or we get the Countess. The Countess blows. She's uppity, full of herself, and is constantly critical of her castmates. Bethenny doesn't like the Countess, but she does like Lu, because to her Lu is the more "real" version of LuAnn. Second unpopular stance....I don't think Ramona is some horny divorcee sleeping around with a ton of guys. From her blog it seems like she and Tom dated a few times, but he has never been married and doesn't have older kids, so he wasn't what she was looking for. I don't think she even slept with him (I could be proven wrong as early as next week on that one.). If you look back through the seasons, she's always been prudish when it comes to her own sex life. When they got her the handcuffs (or maybe it was scarves) for her "renewal bachelorette" on Scary Island, she didn't have a clue what to do with them. I think she resents that Sonja and Luann are so free sexually, because in her mind (I repeat....HER mind) it's amoral.

Grundle. I fall firmly in the group that loves this season. I'd much rather an in your face style cattiness than nice to your face and griping in the talking heads. Give me realness warts and all. Every single one of these ladies is providing entertainment value for me. Some provide it through bad behavior, some through good, but I am laughing way more at/with RHoNY than I did with RHoBH. Sane and sober Dorinda (my preferred version) said something that I adored. Paraphrasing her, but it was something to the effect of living by the rules that she dies by. That is my philosophy and part of my problem with many other housewives. Hypocrisy is one of my biggest pet peeves, and even if she gets sloppy drunk sometimes or disinvites Sonja to a weekend, I will admire her for maintaining the same standards that she sets for those around her.

You're absolutely right. The first time I saw Heidi, I thought she looked familiar, but then chalked it up to fillers and botox making people's faces look the same. Then when I saw Connie Dieb come into her party I realized I had watched them both on Big Rich Texas.

I found one positive thing to say about Landon....her dog is beautiful. Everyone else here has covered my observations, except that as a mother to chef (and a mother-in-law to her chef husband) it irked me when Whitless claimed to be an accomplished chef after one or two cooking classes. Petty of me, I know, but it took a long time and a lot of hard work for her to earn her degree and that moniker.