Black Panther (2018)

[Lantern7]

Dang. Beaten to it by @HunterHunted. Serves me right for having a temp job.

"Black Panther: Seriously, Nobody's Bringing Up The Tribe With The Lip Plates???"

Edited May 17, 2018 by Lantern7

[VCRTracking]

10 ‘Black Panther’ Secrets We Learned From the New Blu-ray

[Browncoat]

Now I want to watch it again, keeping all those things in mind!

[Joe]

Quote

Return of the Jedi Inspired the Final Battle

When conceptualizing the big final battle between Black Panther, Killmonger, and the various factions of Wakanda, Coogler said he looked at movies with big action endings. He singled out the Battle of Endor from Return of the Jedi as particularly instructive.

I can see that. You have T'Challa vs Killmonger in the Luke/Vader role, the female lead(s) in the big ground battle, and the one black/white guy in space/air. Good find, VCRTracking.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 5/17/2018 at 4:57 PM, HunterHunted said:

????????????

[VCRTracking]

7 hours ago, Joe said:

I can see that. You have T'Challa vs Killmonger in the Luke/Vader role, the female lead(s) in the big ground battle, and the one black/white guy in space/air. Good find, VCRTracking.

Also this tidbit

Quote

When the movie was over, Coppola immediately wanted to rewatch one particular scene: The one where T’Challa confronts Forest Whitaker’s Zuri about what he calls Wakanda’s “original sin”: King T’Chaka killing his brother N’Jobu and then leaving his son (who grows up to be Killmonger) a fatherless child in America.

Of course Coppola would like the scene where one brother betrays another! 

 

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

????????????

Loved the end tag.

[Dee]

'Black Panther 2': Donald Glover Reportedly in Talks for New Role, Michael B. Jordan Return Possible

Quote

A source has told Metro.co.uk exclusively that Ryan is working on new characters and is in ‘informal talks’ with Star Wars’ Donald Glover, who we also know as Childish Gambino whenever he puts on his music artist hat.

The insider told us: ‘Ryan Coogler is currently mapping out Black Panther’s sequel and has written in a number of new characters that movie-goers will be introduced to when it premieres.

‘One of those characters, if he gets his wish, will be played by Childish Gambino. Nothing is set in stone but “informal talks” [are happening] between Ryan, Gambino and reps from Marvel and Disney to see if they can make it happen.’

The source also teased the return of the much-loved villain Erik Killmonger played by Creed’s Michael B. Jordan, who is also now a movie producer.

The source added: ‘They’re still yet to decide if Michael B Jordan will return in some capacity but if he doesn’t it’s likely Gambino may play some kind of villain.’

We do wonder how MBJ could possibly return in the sequel because – spoiler alert – viewers watched him pretty much die at the end of the first movie which was released February this year.

Diehard fans will be quick to point out that the complex character came back from the dead in the comics. So the idea of Killmonger resurrecting is not that farfetched – he is a comic book being after all!

Edited May 23, 2018 by Dee

[Kel Varnsen]

Any chance Glover would be playing a bald dude who carries around a bald puppet that also looks exactly like Donald Glover? I could accept that. Although Glover was already in Spider-Man Homecoming and I thought Marvel had a you only get one role in the MCU policy.

[Lantern7]

Given the events of AIW, I can see a way for Killmonger to come back. Glover was in SMH?? I don't think he looks like Achebe. Then again, MBJ wasn't seven-feet-tall, and he was awesome as Killmonger.

[HunterHunted]

45 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Although Glover was already in Spider-Man Homecoming and I thought Marvel had a you only get one role in the MCU policy.

He was and they do have that policy, except for the times they've broken it: 

• Alfre Woodard in Luke Cage and Civil War
• Kenneth Choi in First Avenger and Homecoming, but he plays the his First Avenger's character's grandson in Homecoming
• Enver Gjokaj in the Avengers and Peggy Carter
• Tony Curran in the Dark World and Daredevil

There are others, but those are probably the 4 biggest ones.

https://www.cbr.com/two-actor-roles-mcu/

15 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Glover was in SMH?? I don't think he looks like Achebe.

He's actually playing Miles Morales' uncle, who becomes the Prowler in the Ultimates line.

Edited May 23, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Wynterwolf]

Maybe not (link say neither Donald Glover nor Michael B Jordan rumor is true)...

[Kel Varnsen]

33 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

He was and they do have that policy, except for the times they've broken it: 

• Alfre Woodard in Luke Cage and Civil War
• Kenneth Choi in First Avenger and Homecoming, but he plays the his First Avenger's character's grandson in Homecoming
• Enver Gjokaj in the Avengers and Peggy Carter
• Tony Curran in the Dark World and Daredevil

There are others, but those are probably the 4 biggest ones.

https://www.cbr.com/two-actor-roles-mcu/

 

I thought I read somewhere that someone at Marvel admitted that casting Alfre Woodard in Luke Cage was a mistake and that they had already filmed a bunch before they realized she was in Civil War but she was too good to recast.

45 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Given the events of AIW, I can see a way for Killmonger to come back. Glover was in SMH?? I don't think he looks like Achebe. Then again, MBJ wasn't seven-feet-tall, and he was awesome as Killmonger.

He doesn't look like Achebe at all, but I have a feeling if you shaved his head and let him act like a crazy preacher that Glover could have a lot of fun with the role and bring a lot to it. My first choice would still be the dude from Captain Phillips though.

[Katsullivan]

Er.... Glover and his anti-dark-skinned women shtick has no business in this movie.

[Apprentice79]

46 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Er.... Glover and his anti-dark-skinned women shtick has no business in this movie.

What happened? I have never heard this, it is disappointing to hear after he released that thought-provoking video...

They say that he is not in talks to be in the movie. 

[Katsullivan]

21 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

What happened? I have never heard this, it is disappointing to hear after he released that thought-provoking video...

 

Well maybe I'm being too hard. He might have out grown it. But he's one of those "black nerds" that claim they don't date black women because hot* black girls preferred jocks in high school. 

*By hot, I mean the non-nerd black girls who his ilk weren't interested in dating. Think Laura/Steve Urkel/Myra.

[Apprentice79]

6 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Well maybe I'm being too hard. He might have out grown it. But he's one of those "black nerds" that claim they don't date black women because hot* black girls preferred jocks in high school. 

*By hot, I mean the non-nerd black girls who his ilk weren't interested in dating. Think Laura/Steve Urkel/Myra.

Why do some Black men have to constantly bash Black women in the media. You don't see other types of men doing that. It is annoying...Perhaps, the girls that he liked just did not like him back. Not everybody is going to return your feelings.. It is part of life, he should grow the hell up..

Back on topic: I hope that Ryan and his crew take their time in giving us a good sequel that will give us more sequels with T'Challa as the Black Panther.. I don't want them to rush it and give us a bad movie, just to capitalize on the first movie's success. 

[caracas1914]

From Forbes Magazine's latest projections Avengers Infinity War will fall short of BP's domestic tally of 698 million.  It has 601 as of now, so even if it overtakes BP, it's legs don't look that strong so it won't be by more than a whisker IMO.

 

Other than the possible exception of  Jurassic World coming out later this summer, BP may end being the largest grossing domestic movie this year.

 

How fucking great would that be?  

[supposebly]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

. You don't see other types of men doing that. It is annoying...Perhaps, the girls that he liked just did not like him back. Not everybody is going to return your feelings.. It is part of life, he should grow the hell up..

It's called feeling entitled to women. I think it goes across race. Without having context, I can't really comment on Glover but it is common.

Some call it nice guy syndrome. The idea they are entitled to women because they are "nice" and "nerdy". Big Bang Theory has a cast of (mostly) white main characters who behave(d) that way. And it's supposed to be funny.

I think the Incel movement (if it can be called that) is its most extreme form. One of them ran a truck into mostly female pedestrians in Toronto recently.

Back on Topic: Can I just say that I wouldn't have missed T'Challa in his own movie much?

Edited May 24, 2018 by supposebly

[LydiaMoon1]

3 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Why do some Black men have to constantly bash Black women in the media. You don't see other types of men doing that. It is annoying...Perhaps, the girls that he liked just did not like him back. Not everybody is going to return your feelings.. It is part of life, he should grow the hell up..

Back on topic: I hope that Ryan and his crew take their time in giving us a good sequel that will give us more sequels with T'Challa as the Black Panther.. I don't want them to rush it and give us a bad movie, just to capitalize on the first movie's success. 

It has nothing to do with blerds and their lack of a social life growing up. That's just their nonsensical cover story. Black men in entertainment (or who want to be in entertainment) publicly bash black women to signal to TPTB that they have no problem throwing other black people under the bus for their individual gain. They target black women because we occupy the lowest rung on the social ladder (being both black and female). Like Malcolm X said, black women are the least protected and most disrespected women in America. We are an easy target and they know that they are unlikely to suffer any repercussions from attacking us. Notice how the ones that publicly bash and humiliate black women are quickly rewarded because they have assured the power structure that they're willing to play the game and won't make any trouble.

It's a tactic they use to further their careers. Plain and simple.

Edited May 24, 2018 by LydiaMoon1

[Amethyst]

Just saw it again, with my mom.  She absolutely loved it and has watched it twice since I rented it for her.  Definitely getting this one on blu-ray.  It's just as good the second time around.

Erik burning the garden with all the herbs felt incredibly short-sighted, because what if he has a child one day who wants to become the next Black Panther?  But Klaue (sp?) mentioned that there was a ton of Vibranium in the mountain, so much that the Wakandans hadn't even scratched the surface yet.  So I guess they can take some Vibranium and start a new garden.

I don't know if I need to spoiler cut Infinity War, but just to be safe: 

Spoiler

Someone posed a theory that Erik actually survived the stabbing and becomes the interim BP since T'Challa died after the events of IW.  But I doubt it.  Yes, Erik was a prince of Wakanda, but no one would follow him due to his bloodthirsty actions.  Also, there's no guarantee that Erik would have survived IW either.

Also, would Shuri be the next in life as T'Challa's sister?  

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Just saw it again, with my mom.  She absolutely loved it and has watched it twice since I rented it for her.  Definitely getting this one on blu-ray.  It's just as good the second time around.

Erik burning the garden with all the herbs felt incredibly short-sighted, because what if he has a child one day who wants to become the next Black Panther?  But Klaue (sp?) mentioned that there was a ton of Vibranium in the mountain, so much that the Wakandans hadn't even scratched the surface yet.  So I guess they can take some Vibranium and start a new garden.

I don't know if I need to spoiler cut Infinity War, but just to be safe: 

  Reveal hidden contents

Someone posed a theory that Erik actually survived the stabbing and becomes the interim BP since T'Challa died after the events of IW.  But I doubt it.  Yes, Erik was a prince of Wakanda, but no one would follow him due to his bloodthirsty actions.  Also, there's no guarantee that Erik would have survived IW either.

Also, would Shuri be the next in life as T'Challa's sister?  

Erik was not interested in continuing the line of Black Panthers, after him.  He did not care about Wakanda and it's traditions. He was an outsider. I think he wanted to destroy Wakanda for abandoning him.  I am hoping that Bast the Panther Goddess can tell T'Challa where to find some new batches of herbs. It would be a full circle moment, of when she directed the first Black Panther, Bashenga, to take the heart-shaped herb.  

To answer your hidden question, Shuri would be the next in line. Unless, Nakia is pregnant. I don't think the cruel endings of Infinity war will stick...

[blueray]

I finally got around to see this one (last one I needed to  see of the MCU).

I definitely enjoyed this movie. There were a few things that in my opinion stopped it from being as perfect as everyone seemed to make it to be. Mainly the villain, at first he was well written and story made sense from his pov. But as soon as he got power, suddenly he became a stereotypical villain who just wanted to kill everyone. It became very clear that he had no idea how to lead, and there would be no way anyone would follow him because of his clear lack of experience, plus being an outsider.  I also don't see how that guy possibly would be in the military. I feel like he wouldn't follow rules very well and would have been long kicked out. They could have gone the crime/gang route, but they mentioned military instead.

Anyhow, Wakanda was great and very interesting. I enjoyed learning about the characters that I saw in infinity wars more.  As well as learning a bit about their culture. I feel the movie did a good job with explaining why mostly nobody knew how powerful they were. And how they were going to open it at the end (which I already knew from IW).

Edited May 28, 2018 by blueray

[Apprentice79]

52 minutes ago, blueray said:

I finally got around to see this one (last one I needed to  see of the MCU).

I definitely enjoyed this movie. There were a few things that in my opinion stopped it from being as perfect as everyone seemed to make it to be. Mainly the villain, at first he was well written and story made sense from his pov. But as soon as he got power, suddenly he became a stereotypical villain who just wanted to kill everyone. It became very clear that he had no idea how to lead, and there would be no way anyone would follow him because of his clear lack of experience, plus being an outsider.  I also don't see how that guy possibly would be in the military. I feel like he wouldn't follow rules very well and would have been long kicked out. They could have gone the crime/gang route, but they mentioned military instead.

Anyhow, Wakanda was great and very interesting. I enjoyed learning about the characters that I saw in infinity wars more.  As well as learning a bit about their culture. I feel the movie did a good job with explaining why mostly nobody knew how powerful they were. And how they were going to open it at the end (which I already knew from IW).

 

Killmonger was being led by his negative emotions.  Had he not been so close to the situation in Wakanda, perhaps, he could have had more success. Plus, he was trained to destroy governments as an operative, not run them. He is a warmonger and not fit to lead a country.  He never thought or cared about the unintended consequences of giving vibranium weapons to the world. Eventually, the world would have amassed enough weapons to band together and conquer Wakanda.  In the movie, Klaue said that even the Wakandans have not used vibranium to it's fullest potential.  However, in the comics, they did. The golden city itself could become a weapon to twart outside threats. The buildings in the capital could be activated, since they are made out of vibranium, to become both offensive and defensive weapons, if Wakanda was ever invaded. It was odd that it was not used in Infinity war to fight Thanos and his crew.   I am hoping that Ryan will show that in future Black Panther movies.  

Edited May 28, 2018 by Apprentice79

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, blueray said:

There were a few things that in my opinion stopped it from being as perfect as everyone seemed to make it to be. Mainly the villain, at first he was well written and story made sense from his pov. But as soon as he got power, suddenly he became a stereotypical villain who just wanted to kill everyone. It became very clear that he had no idea how to lead, and there would be no way anyone would follow him because of his clear lack of experience, plus being an outsider.  I also don't see how that guy possibly would be in the military. I feel like he wouldn't follow rules very well and would have been long kicked out. They could have gone the crime/gang route, but they mentioned military instead.

I'm going to work a little bit all over the place in my response.

There is actually historical precedent that supports the narrative choice of having Killmonger in the military. A lot of civil rights and Black militant leaders actually have military experience. The contrast with what they were fighting for and how they were treated back in the states actually led them to start their political movements. Granted most of the historical examples didn't have careers that were nearly as long or notable as Killmonger's. It's very clear that Killmonger was aware of N'Jobu's past as a War Dog. Both of his parents were radicalized. There is also the grand sad tradition of Black interior lives being completely compartmentalized from their public selves. So I don't think it's inconceivable that Killmonger could be that angry and radicalized, but serve successfully in the military.

Additionally even with the crime or gang route, he'd still have to follow rules. Every semi-successful organization, military or civilian, legal or illegal, has rules and layers of authority. Pablo Escobar had rules. The Crips, Bloods, Mexican Mafia, MS-13, and the Aryan Brotherhood all have rules and leaders. The media is really bad at depicting that and so everyday people feel like these organizations are a free for all, but they aren't. So even if the movie had given him a criminal backstory, his ability to follow rules is still an important part of him rising through the ranks.

As @Apprentice79 said, all of Killmonger's military experience is in destablizing governments. He has no clue how to lead and all of the leadership that he witnessed first hand was when he was young from his father and mother or in the military. Also important is the fact that he served in the U.S. military during the war on terror, which is notable because the government had so little cultural understanding of the region that the U.S. got itself into messes just based on ignorance of the region. So it's not entirely surprising that Killmonger had no clue what he was doing in leadership and didn't understand enough about Wakanda to be a successful leader.

Finally, Killmonger's goal wasn't really to kill everyone; his goal was one of Wakandan manifest destiny and Wakandan exceptionalism. He wanted to completely reshape the world according to his and nominally Wakandan viewpoints. The biggest issue with him is that he knows just enough about everything/the world to be dangerous and not enough about it to actually improve the world.

Edited May 28, 2018 by HunterHunted

[ursula]

11 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

There is also the grand sad tradition of Black interior lives being completely compartmentalized from their public selves.

Damn. 

 

12 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

The biggest issue with him is that he knows just enough about everything/the world to be dangerous and not enough about it to actually improve the world.

Well said.

You summarized his entire dichotomy brilliantly.

[Apprentice79]

41 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Finally, Killmonger's goal wasn't really to kill everyone; his goal was one of Wakandan manifest destiny and Wakandan exceptionalism. He wanted to completely reshape the world according to his and nominally Wakandan viewpoints. The biggest issue with him is that he knows just enough about everything/the world to be dangerous and not enough about it to actually improve the world.

It is why T'Challa knew that he had to kill him. T'Challa truly became king and his own man, after  he came  back from the ancestor plane for the second time.  He was laser focus on destroying Killmonger, as the protector and King of Wakanda.  He was willing to take on Killmonger, the Border tribe and everybody else to neutralize him. He had no idea if the Dora milaje would have sided with him.  

I have to wonder what would have happened if Killmonger had tried to con T'Challa and pretended to want to establish a familial relationship with him. He could have ingratiated himself with the Wakandan people while secretly sabotaging T'Challa and his standing with his people. I could see the comic book fans screaming foul on that because T'Challa's supernatural senses would have alerted him of Killmonger's treachery. The movie really downplayed how powerful T'Challa truly is, without the vibranium suit.  He is also a genius like Shuri.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Apprentice79

[caracas1914]

T’challa , unlike Killmonger, is well aware of the nuances in the world.  Rejecting Wakanda’s nonintervention policy, while recognzing the pitffalls of engaging the outside world was actually well presented in the film.

OTOH, Killmonger took the historical oppression of Blacks and the military jingoistic  “Might is Right” and was going to burn the world down simply with new  guys in charge.   His anger was understandable, but it wasn’t tempered with any sense of justice or empathy for others, not even for his new found Wakanda brotherhood.

Edited May 31, 2018 by caracas1914

[SimoneS]

I bought Black Panther on Blu Ray and have watched it about four or five times now. I still think that it is a really good movie with meaningful sociopolitical, gender, and race/ethnicity themes. It is in my top five Marvel movies, if not at the top for those reasons. The acting is so good. The script is solid. The women were portrayed as powerful and not merely sex symbols. The action is good although not great. The CGI of T'Challa and Killmonger finally fight is particularly poor. I also noticed that musical score by Ludwig Göransson is  very good nearly as good as the Winter Soldier's score by Henry Jackman which I absolutely loved. I did some research and found that Göransson also created the score for Creed which I also liked. 

As with all the Marvel movies, there was a lot of stuff that I missed watching in the theater. What jumped out at me was that while watching the movie, I thought W'Kabi's betrayal came out of nowhere, but the ground work had been laid. W'Kabi already shared Killmonger's belief that Wakanda should go out and change the world, then he was furious at T'Challa for not bring back Klaw. They should have kept in the deleted scene of W'Kabi and Okoye confrontation after T'Challa's "death." It was powerful and explained why he ordered his men to kill T'Challa when he returned.

Coogler should have also left in the scene with T'Challa, Nakia, and Okoye with Everett Ross. It was a fun, but it was a final reminder that everyone was aware of the danger and risk T'Challa was taking by revealing Wakanda's secret.

Winston Duke as M'Baku was one of the breakout performances. I absolutely love when T'Challa, Shuri, Everett, Ramonda, and Nakia are having their hero moment, the music begins to swell and M'Baku asks with annoyance and boredom, "are you done? Are you done? Are you done?" Hilarious. I also noticed that M'Baku was in the throne room in the final brief shot when T'Challa walked in. Wakanda was definitely changing internally as well as externally. I hope we see more of him in a heroic light in the next movie.

Edited June 3, 2018 by SimoneS

[Apprentice79]

6 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I bought Black Panther on Blu Ray and have watched it about four or five times now. I still think that it is a really good movie with meaningful sociopolitical, gender, and race/ethnicity themes. It is in my top five Marvel movies, if not at the top for those reasons. The acting is so good. The script is solid. The women were portrayed as powerful and not merely sex symbols. The action is good although not great. The CGI of T'Challa and Killmonger finally fight is particularly poor. I also noticed that musical score by Ludwig Göransson is  very good nearly as good as the Winter Soldier's score by Henry Jackman which I absolutely loved. I did some research and found that Göransson also created the score for Creed which I also liked. 

As with all the Marvel movies, there was a lot of stuff that I missed watching in the theater. What jumped out at me was that while watching the movie, I thought W'Kabi's betrayal came out of nowhere, but the ground work had been laid. W'Kabi already shared Killmonger's belief that Wakanda should go out and change the world, then he was furious at T'Challa for not bring back Klaw. They should have kept in the deleted scene of W'Kabi and Okoye confrontation after T'Challa's "death." It was powerful and explained why he ordered his men to kill T'Challa when he returned.

Coogler should have also left in the scene with T'Challa, Nakia, and Okoye with Everett Ross. It was a fun, but it was a final reminder that everyone was aware of the danger and risk T'Challa was taking by revealing Wakanda's secret.

Winston Duke as M'Baku was one of the breakout performances. I absolutely love when T'Challa, Shuri, Everett, Ramonda, and Nakia are having their hero moment, the music begins to swell and M'Baku asks with annoyance and boredom, "are you done? Are you done? Are you done?" Hilarious. I also noticed that M'Baku was in the throne room in the final brief shot when T'Challa walked in. Wakanda was definitely changing internally as well as externally. I hope we see more of him in a heroic light in the next movie.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. All of those deleted scenes should have been kept in the movie.  Coogler is a master storyteller, he fought to keep the deleted scenes, but, was overruled. The deleted scene between T'Chaka and young T'Challa, after he came back from killing N'Jobu was not needed  and did not to be in the movie.  I did love that Nakia and T'Challa were close as kids. 

I loved seeing M'Baku in the throne room.  I wish that scene was included in the blue ray. I would have loved to have seen that whole scene. The five tribes are now united under T'Challa's rule.  I wonder will the Jabaris will now do the Wakandan salute and use vibranium, since vibranium is tied closely to the Panther goddess, Bast. 

I think that W'Kabi will be back in the sequel, he will probably die saving T'Challa somehow.  Coogler hinted that W'kabi will be back in the sequel and he hopes that T'Challa will forgive him. T'Challa probably spared his life because of Okoye. 

[SimoneS]

39 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

I think that W'Kabi will be back in the sequel, he will probably die saving T'Challa somehow.  Coogler hinted that W'kabi will be back in the sequel and he hopes that T'Challa will forgive him. T'Challa probably spared his life because of Okoye. 

I think that if Loki can be redeemed, W'Kabi can be also. I am really hoping that we see W'Kabi with a change of heart in the next movie. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by SimoneS

[Lugal]

On 6/3/2018 at 10:14 AM, Apprentice79 said:

The deleted scene between T'Chaka and young T'Challa, after he came back from killing N'Jobu was not needed  and did not to be in the movie.  I did love that Nakia and T'Challa were close as kids. 

I loved seeing M'Baku in the throne room.  I wish that scene was included in the blue ray. I would have loved to have seen that whole scene. The five tribes are now united under T'Challa's rule.  I wonder will the Jabaris will now do the Wakandan salute and use vibranium, since vibranium is tied closely to the Panther goddess, Bast. 

The scene with T'Chaka and young T'Challa was not really needed, except to show how Nakia knew how to get into the tunnels and take the heart-shaped herb unobserved.

I think it may be premature to say the five tribes are united under T'Challa's rule.  M'Baku was smart enough to realize that the Jabari's fate is tied to Wakanda, whether they accept the king or not.  He could have been there representing the Jabari in some way without accepting T'Challa as king.  They did just turn the tide of the battle, which could give them enough leverage to get a seat at the table without bowing to T'Challa (especially since they don't worship Bast like the other tribes).

[Bruinsfan]

Spoiler for Infinity War:

Spoiler

M'Baku leads his forces into battle with the other notable Wakandans and T'Challah speaks fondly of him to Okoye, implying that they've gotten to know each other better and worked together since the end of Black Panther. It appears to me that the Jabari are at least in the process of re-integrating with the rest of Wakanda, and M'Baku has a voice in the government as their leader.

[Lantern7]

Roy Wood Jr. mixes ending with NBA Finals. I’m not into basketball, but I thought this was funny.

[Dee]

Marvel Boss Kevin Feige on Ryan Coogler’s ‘Black Panther': ‘Best Movie We’ve Ever Made’

Quote

Marvel Studios was already a Hollywood titan before “Black Panther” began shooting, but CEO Kevin Feige credited director Ryan Coogler and his team for making his company “a better studio.”

“The experience of making ‘Black Panther,’ even before it came out, was a transformative one,” Feige told attendees at the 10th annual Produced By conference on Saturday. “We’re watching the final playback, where you see the final film and check for any last-minute changes, and when it ended I just instinctually leaned over to Ryan and said, ‘I think this is the best movie we’ve ever made.'

“Black Panther” is now one of the top 10 highest grossing movies of all time, and the only one on the list where more than half of its global revenue came from North America with nearly $700 million grossed domestically.

More than any other Marvel Studios release, the film has become a crossover cultural phenomenon, with politicians recognizing the film in Congress and black athletes and celebrities adopting the film’s “Wakanda Forever” salute, which Feige said Coogler improvised with the film’s star, Chadwick Boseman.

“We had to make that movie to destroy a myth that Black movies don’t succeed around the world,” Feige said, “Unconscious bias is a real thing.”

Feige also said that producing “Black Panther” made him more aware of what kinds of people were surrounding him during the moviemaking process, and how that group is steadily diversifying. He said that during a production meeting for the film, every person sitting in the meeting with him “didn’t look like me, and that was exciting.”

As Marvel Studios enters its second decade in the business, Feige says that the push for diversity that entered overdrive with the release of “Black Panther” has lead to steady changes. Anna Boden will become the first woman to direct a Marvel film as she is currently filming “Captain Marvel” with Ryan Fleck, and Feige says there are plans to put more women in director’s chairs and other leadership roles as well.

“At this point, there are more women on track to take leadership at Marvel Studios then there are men.”

Edited June 15, 2018 by Dee

[Danny Franks]

So I've just watched this movie for the first time and... I don't get the hype. Is it decent? Yeah. It's typical superhero fare, with some cool characters and lots of techno-goodies.

Chadwick Boseman was okay, but I still don't think he's any great shakes as an actor. He was outshone by most of the others around him. Lupita Nyong'o was great, and easily the best thing in the movie, followed closely by Letitia Wright as Shuri. Both of them had buckets of charm and personality. Angela Bassett was solid as the patrician, matriarch character (no surprises there) and Forest Whittaker was his usual, weird self.

Some of the technology ideas were really cool, and well executed. And the conceit of this hyper-advanced civilisation, which has existed undetected for centuries in Africa, is a potent idea. Reversing the archetypes of civilised and brutish, making the one white, American character be the man out of his depth, baffled by all around him. 

And I liked the compromise that T'Challa came up with, of reaching out peacefully and using Wakandan riches to make lives better, both with outreach centres and with an intent to guide the rest of the world politically.

But it's let down massively by a couple of things.

One, T'Challa's best buddy completely forsakes and betrays him, to the point he's prepared to lead his men to kill him, because... T'Challa didn't kill or capture the guy who killed his parents at first time of asking? Really? He trusts this new guy that no one has ever met before, and completely buys into his deal, just because he feels like Wakanda should do more in the world?

Two, the king of a nation obsessed with secrecy and preventing anyone from finding out anything at all about them kills his own brother in an apartment in Oakland, and then not only leaves the body to be found (with panther claw stab wounds!), but apparently doesn't search the apartment for anything he might have left that would give the game away. I just couldn't get past this. It was such a cheap bit of writing.

Any competent monarch is clearing that apartment of everything, and probably scooping up the kid as well, to ensure he can never, ever be used as a rival claimant. Speaking of which, I also find fault in a country that has somehow survived in harmony for centuries, while still having a custom that anyone from any tribe can challenge the heir on the day he takes the throne, and apparently any blood relative can challenge him whenever they feel like it. Sorry, but that's a recipe for internal strife, scheming and factional war.

Oh, and a third (well, fourth, I guess) thing: Making Killmonger so extra Eeevil! He casually kills his girlfriend! He betrays his comrades in arms! He burns all tradition in contempt! He maniacally grins as he kills a Dora Milaje soldier! But then he cries a bit at the end, so apparently he's conflicted and sympathetic and deep.

There's really nothing new Marvel can do with the big, final hero vs villain confrontation, and I get bored by long, CGI-laden fight scenes. Unless they can come up with a new formula for their movies, then I think I'm just burned out on them. I didn't see the new Avengers film, and I honestly don't know if I'll bother.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Danny Franks

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Any competent monarch is clearing that apartment of everything, and probably scooping up the kid as well, to ensure he can never, ever be used as a rival claimant. Speaking of which, I also find fault in a country that has somehow survived in harmony for centuries, while still having a custom that anyone from any tribe can challenge the heir on the day he takes the throne, and apparently any blood relative can challenge him whenever they feel like it. Sorry, but that's a recipe for internal strife, scheming and factional war.

Only those of royal blood could take the heart-shaped herb. In the comic books,  T'Challa had to fight the seven  best warriors and after defeating them, Bast herself, would then lead him to the mountains, where he would take the herb.  Shuri took the herb, in the comics, but, Bast rejected her because of her arrogance. I always got the impression that the tribes offered no resistance to the status quo , in exchange for something.  The tribes may have some level of autonomy and the people are left alone and not oppressed.  It is an equitable society and they all partake in the wonders of vibranium.  Vibranium has developed their country, so, the average Wakandan, has no need to leave Wakanda in search of a better life.  I also think that centuries without European influence and conquest left their culture intact. Their nationalism, paranoia about the outside world, ancestor worship and the worship of Bast keeps them grounded.  Even the Jabaris, who were the outliers in Wakandan society did not really do anything to really challenge the status quo. M'Baku is the exception, but, we don't know, if other past Jabaris challenged it, but, lost.  

I had a problem with Killmonger taking over the country, after one day, of showing up in Wakanda.  Killmonger in a way, embodied the flaw of their way of life in Wakanda. Their isolation  and nationalism has kept their culture from evolving in different ways.  T'Challa could easily have imprisoned Killmonger and had him killed. He was the absolute ruler of Wakanda.  He could do whatever he wants.  I wish that we had seen the people's reactions to the confusion that Killmonger brought to their land. How did they feel about Killmonger and his grandiose plan to conquer the world. I remember reading that Ryan Coogler wanted to shoot scenes of the Wakandan people greeting T'Challa like a superstar, he is beloved in Wakanda. However, he was afraid of going over budget and he scrapped those plans.  They had no idea that the movie was going to be such a hit. 

I understand why T'Chaka left his nephew. He did not want the truth about his brother to come out. He also considered him to be an outsider. It was foolish that he did not have him watched throughout the years.  I am sure Zuri told him that N'Jobu told his son about Wakanda and their secrets.  

Edited June 16, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Dee]

What right would T'Challa have to imprison and/or kill Erik?

Erik's claim to the throne was every bit as valid as T'Challa's.

[Raja]

20 minutes ago, Dee said:

What right would T'Challa have to imprison and/or kill Erik?

Erik's claim to the throne was every bit as valid as T'Challa's.

No right to do so however the previous post said

Quote

T'Challa could easily have imprisoned Killmonger and had him killed. He was the absolute ruler of Wakanda.  He could do whatever he wants

Judging by King Erik's actions he did have that absolute power if he decided to exercise it. Well at least until the civil war started and the five tribes  started grabbing what they could

But then we woudn't have a hero, we have the Inhumans miniseries.

[festivus]

19 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

So I've just watched this movie for the first time and... I don't get the hype. Is it decent? Yeah. It's typical superhero fare, with some cool characters and lots of techno-goodies.

I agree with you and I've been pretty hesitant to post my opinion in this thread. I do think that a lot of the hype is because it did so well being a black superhero movie. Which I am all about, the same as I was about Wonder Woman. I certainly want to see more movies with POC and women as the stars. 

As to this movie though, I thought it was a decent entertaining outing but not the greatest Marvel movie ever. IMO the women stole the show here and I would line up at the theater if they would make a movie with the women from this movie with some added from the rest of the MCU.

I did think Erik Killmonger was a decent villain with an understandable POV and he did kinda steal the show from BP but I tried to keep in mind that Chadwick Boseman is playing T'Challa as a low key type of guy. That said, I actually enjoyed his portrayal more in CW than I did here. I definitely preferred his fighting scenes in CW.

17 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I understand why T'Chaka left his nephew. He did not want the truth about his brother to come out. He also considered him to be an outsider. It was foolish that he did not have him watched throughout the years.  I am sure Zuri told him that N'Jobu told his son about Wakanda and their secrets.

I don't. He left a child to find his father's dead body. What did he think was going to happen?

Edited June 16, 2018 by festivus
a typo always gets me when I try posting more than two lines

[Danny Franks]

17 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I understand why T'Chaka left his nephew. He did not want the truth about his brother to come out. He also considered him to be an outsider. It was foolish that he did not have him watched throughout the years.  I am sure Zuri told him that N'Jobu told his son about Wakanda and their secrets.  

Okay, that's valid. But leaving the dead body and all the stuff he apparently had written down for his son to read, as well as the ring identifying him as a Wakandan royal? It just doesn't wash, and the entire character of Killmonger hangs off that incredibly cheap writing choice. 

10 minutes ago, festivus said:

I agree with you and I've been pretty hesitant to post my opinion in this thread. I do think that a lot of the hype is because it did so well being a black superhero movie. Which I am all about, the same as I was about Wonder Woman. I certainly want to see more movies with POC and women as the stars. 

As to this movie though, I thought it was a decent entertaining outing but not the greatest Marvel movie ever. IMO the women stole the show here and I would line up at the theater if they would make a movie with the women from this movie with some added from the rest of the MCU.

The thing is, once you get past the black superhero movie (and I'm glad it blew the box office doors off, for that reason), it has to stand up as a good movie in its own right. And it's simply... fine. Not the worst movie Marvel have done, but not the best either.

The women definitely stole the show. I'd watch a whole film with just Nakia, Shuri and Okoye, but I'm not that interested in watching another one with T'Challa. I'd happily revise my idea for an all-women Black Widow movie to fit Nakia and Shuri in, as they seem less rooted in Wakanda than Okoye does.

[Apprentice79]

4 hours ago, festivus said:

I don't. He left a child to find his father's dead body. What did he think was going to happen?

I never said that it was right, but, from his perspective, he had to protect Wakanda, at all cost..

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Okay, that's valid. But leaving the dead body and all the stuff he apparently had written down for his son to read, as well as the ring identifying him as a Wakandan royal? It just doesn't wash, and the entire character of Killmonger hangs off that incredibly cheap writing choice. 

True, but, that diary was in a secret hiding place. He did not plan to kill N'Jobu, he came to arrest him for treason.  We don't really know about the protocols for war dogs who are living outside of Wakanda. Are they allowed to bring Wakanda technology with them? if they are, to what extent.. T'Chaka probably figured that nobody would care, about a Black man, involved in criminal activities being killed in the hood. So, no one would care about investigating his murder. Not to mention, his son's mother was in jail.  The police would shake their heads, sigh and say that the kid never had a chance.  They would put Eric in foster care, where he would join many like him.  So, his secret was safe. Plus, only Wakanda know about the existence of the Black Panther. Even, if Eric, as a kid, would tell people about Wakanda, who would believe the fantastical stories of a kid.  To the rest of the world, Wakanda is just another poor African country. It sucks to be them..

No movie is perfect.  You will never have a movie where everybody loves it . Personally, I loved it because it was not about Black pain and Black oppression. I have often wondered how Africa and people of African descent would have been like, if Africa was never conquered and exploited, the way that it was, first by the Arabs and then, by the Europeans.. Wakanda gave me that..

Edited June 16, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Cobalt Stargazer]

23 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

 T'Challa could easily have imprisoned Killmonger and had him killed. He was the absolute ruler of Wakanda.  He could do whatever he wants. 

But that's the point, isn't it? That he could have - maybe should have - had Killmonger thrown into prison and then executed, and he didn't. In T'Challa's first visit to the ancestral plane, T'Chaka says that "it is difficult for a good man to be a king", which is borne out by what became of Erik due to what happened to his father. Killmonger was just another part of the lie, a thread in the tapestry of secrecy surrounding Wakanda, and what would have happened if the American authorities had discovered that N'Jobu had been killed on their soil, and by who? T'Chaka (and possibly Zuri as well) would have been the ones in jail then, and that's not even getting into what story they'd have told. T'Challa's personal honor was why he accepted Erik's challenge for the throne as well, even though Ramonda was the one who said they get rid of the interloper before anything else happened, and its Nakia who tells him that he doesn't have to let the burden his father created drag him down. That it's better to be his own man, with his own code of ethics, and not just relying on the traditions that helped cause the trouble to begin with.

[ursula]

36 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

what would have happened if the American authorities had discovered that N'Jobu had been killed on their soil, and by who? T'Chaka (and possibly Zuri as well) would have been the ones in jail then,

That would be a "diplomatic incident" I think since Njobu is not an American citizen but aWakandan , executed by his own sovereign. A "sorry about the mess" kind of situation.

America would be interested though in why a Wakanda Citizen was living in the US under a false name and identity...

Edited June 17, 2018 by ursula

[Raja]

Well the State of California gets to close an open murder case with the presumed suspect dead.

[VCRTracking]

Edited June 19, 2018 by VCRTracking

[VCRTracking]

[Spartan Girl]

I don't know what I loved more: Chadwick giving his award to James Shaw Jr (Waffle House hero), or Michael B Jordan joking that he was amazed he won because he thought Roseanne had it in the bag. LMAO!

[Apprentice79]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don't know what I loved more: Chadwick giving his award to James Shaw Jr (Waffle House hero), or Michael B Jordan joking that he was amazed he won because he thought Roseanne had it in the bag. LMAO!

Her fans are decrying Michael and are pushing anti-Wakanda forever campaign, on the internet.. Whatever! 

I loved seeing the guys, but, I missed seeing the MVPS of the movie: the ladies.

[Dee]

Winston is a giant!

[Dee]