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S03.E19: Cape May


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So how did Red get to New York from D.C. between episodes ?  Let alone crashing in a safe house in Chinatown.

 

I figured out that the enigmatic woman was just Red projecting after about 10 minutes -- she wore a red turtleneck and had red hair and talked like Red -- only she was supposed to be Lizzie's mom.  Really ?  Only no one really cares since they have strung out this little mystery for so long.

 

So was it Red that really tried to kill himself by going into the water  -- over Lizzie ?  Lizzie !!!  FFS !!

 

Here's the problem -- there were scenes where Red wasn't even in the room, and enigmatic woman was doing stuff.  Or when she pushed the guy off the walk while Red was skulking in the reeds with the shotgun.

 

And the stupidest part was that last's week's preview of this episode had Red out for revenge over Lizzie's death -- only that never happened at all. That is just a pathetic bait and switch attempt by the promo monkeys.  Screw them !!!

 

And who were these guys trying to kill Red ?  How did they find Red ?  And why were they trying to kill him ?  Were they more of Mr. Solomon's men -- or from someone else ?  Or did Lizzie have an insurance policy where if she died their was a revenge clause on Reddington -- from one of the many times she was done with him.

 

None of this episode made any sense at all. 

 

At least they gave up on the numbering of the Blacklisters -- because it really is meaningless anymore.  Since they rarely catch them.

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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Was the Chinatown hideout an opium den so that Red could escape his despair for awhile?

What happened at Cape May was either all memories or a combination of memory and fantasy. Didn't Red say at one point that Lizzie's mother walked into the sea and drowned? Likely, in the past he didn't stay to help Katrina fight the assassins who were after her but escaped with Lizzie while she drowned herself and he was fantasizing that it had turned out differently. The cop and the guy scavenging on the beach were real, but no one else. Too big a coincidence that the necklace would be found just when Red was there, though.

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So, if Red is spending all his time assisting an enigmatic beauty, when will he have time in his schedule to exact revenge over Lizzie's "death" ?

 

 

I thought it was boring.

 

Agreed, the episode didn't have him avenging her or going after another Blacklister.

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Was the Chinatown hideout an opium den so that Red could escape his despair for awhile?

What happened at Cape May was either all memories or a combination of memory and fantasy. Didn't Red say at one point that Lizzie's mother walked into the sea and drowned? Likely, in the past he didn't stay to help Katrina fight the assassins who were after her but escaped with Lizzie while she drowned herself and he was fantasizing that it had turned out differently. The cop and the guy scavenging on the beach were real, but no one else. Too big a coincidence that the necklace would be found just when Red was there, though.

 

Were even the guys trying to kill Red a figment ?  The dead body ?  The propane explosion ? The corpse dangling from the piano wire ?

 

Was the cop a figment too ?  What if the guy on the beach was also a hallucination ?  And the necklace was also a hallucination ?

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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Were even the guys trying to kill Red a figment ?  The dead body ?  The propane explosion ? The corpse dangling from the piano wire ?

 

Was the cop a figment too ?  What if the guy on the beach was also a hallucination ?  And the necklace was also a hallucination ?

 

Yeah, it was confusing if it was all in his head or whatnot, apart from being boring filler.

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The assassins/bodies/explosion were definitely figments since the hotel was later seen to be in perfect shape, not even a broken window.

I think the cop was real only because Red showed him the table with the 2 place settings and made an excuse about his wife feeling ill. Also, his bag containing money and id's shouldn't have been in the house if he had actually rescued Katarina because he left it (and his hat and coat) on the beach when he brought her inside. I think the cop actually saw the lights Red had turned on while carrying out his imaginary rescue and its aftermath, and intruded on said fantasy, but Red's mind allowed him to satisfy the cop and then go right back to "talking" with Katarina about how he had known that Jack was dead.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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Everything is a figment after the cab driver.

I watch this show for one reason: Spader. So trust me when I say that I can put up with a lot of crap if it gets me vintage Spader. I don't care how plot hole filled the episodes are if I get to watch Red snakily get the best of the villains and the heroes.

But this was a pretentious mess of a vanity turn.

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And now, for something completely different...

 

Well, I thought it was rather interesting, even if it was kind of a giveaway that he was in fantasyland.  I think everything he dreamed up was not meant to be a recollection of something literal, but an allegory of the choices he made and how they led him to that spot.  The beginning of the episode implied he was on the verge of killing the doctor, who is blameless in the whole fiasco of last week.  I guess that was the answer to her question of whether he had spared anyone. 

 

On the lighter side, what kind of top flight assassin carries a flip phone instead of a smart phone.  Of course, there's no butt dialing during a job, so that's a plus.

 

Why did he want to go to Cape May in the first place?  When did he stay there the first time?

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Well, I didn't love it but I didn't hate it either. A trip through Red's head is an interesting one and helps me understand one of the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" aspects of this show. Red doesn't give the audience answers because he doesn't even give them to himself!

 

I feel like the unofficial poll last week was that Red should be calling down the wrath of Hell on everyone who has ever even so much as looked at him funny. Maybe next week. Badass Red is a lot more fun than discombobulated Red. I hope next week opens up with Dembe arriving at the Hotel California with a baggie full of Adderall for Red. Dude needs to focus.

 

I know they can do amazing things with makeup but I feel like Lottie Verbeek (who was great in Season 2 of Agent Carter BTW) is not the right age to play Lizzie's mother. Red was seeing her as he last remembered her I think. So when she inevitably shows up again she should be into her 50's or 60's. Maybe they'll use a different actress to play her in the present.

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I didn't like this at all. I figured out right away that it was all in Red's head and that just turned me right off. I watched the whole thing but was bored. I get it - Red's devastated by Liz's death, fine, but to subject us viewers to an entire episode of his hallucination was downright tedious. I guess this jaunt down to the beach was Red's form of therapy to work through everything that's happened but instead of being some profound moment of clarity and purpose, I found it dull. I'll overlook it as a transitional episode, perhaps - depending on whether the character of Liz comes back or not, and they need to re-boot the show. Whatever happens next for show, this episode had almost no impact on me.

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I liked it.  Once a season, it's good to see Red as confused as the rest of us are, watching this show.

 

His whole world revolved around Liz, and now she's dead, and it's partly his fault.  He needed to go off somewhere and have a good cry.  Did we need to spend an hour watching that cry?  Maybe, maybe not.  But at least it wasn't just a random "Blacklist" episode.  I give the producers credit with trying something a little different.

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I was so looking forward to this episode and Red taking out his revenge on everyone.  I kept hearing it was an "Emmy worthy" performance.

 

Ugh, what an utter disappointment.  I HATE episodes like this, where the main character is working through their issues by going through some kind of crazy hallucination laden head trip.  I just... hate them so much.  What was even the point?

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My theory is that Liz or some other party arranged Liz's "death"; if indeed she is "dead" and not dead.

I don't think we would have this episode, where we see Red's grief made manifest, if he were in on it. Instead we would see the external manifestation of his grief, while the team deal's with a %u2014 probably minor league %u2014 blacklister without him.

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I really liked it. It was so much The Shining meets Home Alone. Loved the creepy camera work and all Spader all the time. 

 

My take was, all those things (the murders/killings, drownings, etc.) happened during Red's visit there "way back when," when he chose baby Lizzie instead of Lizzie's mom, who ended up drowning herself IRL. He was comparing that old event to what happened last week, he blames his decision on birthing Agnes in the disco for Lizzie's death.

 

Of course, the suggestion above, that Red was asleep in a Chinatown opium den, could account for much of those hallucinations. 

 

And unlike most of you, I was fooled that the woman was real up until the very end.

 

I have to say again, I really, really liked this episode. No Lizzie, even in flashbacks. Hooray! Plus his reliving this past event will give him a reason to take Agnes and kick Tom out into his own series. Hooray!

 

Big question: IS DOCTOR NICK DEAD?

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I think Tom and baby totally left to go meet up with Lizzie. However, don't know how that fits in with the spin off. Giving them a baby when they were planning a spin off wasn't the greatest idea.

 

All the father/dad references with ghost Lizzie's mother, we're back to him being her dad.

Edited by Artsda
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The assassin using a flip phone was another tip that those events happened "way back when," when Red was at that resort. He kept referring to when he had been there "before," one time. He went there now, in present time, because Liz dying for Agnes was like Liz's mom drowning herself to save Lizzie. (However that worked. Not sure how killing herself saved her child, but whatever. It was part of the dialogue.)

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I had mixed feelings about the episode but did appreciate some filling out of Red's backstory regarding his relationship with Liz's mother and with Liz herself.  For the record, my feeling is that Liz has truly gone to that FBI Academy in the sky.  I was very intrigued by the opening sequence with Doc Nick pleading for his life.  Surely Red knew that Nick did everything humanly possible to save Liz but it came down to the choice between a very small chance of her surviving vs. delivering a healthy baby.  Red also knew that Nick was very fond of Liz so the whole scene seemed off to me.  Hopefully we'll learn more next week but it looks like the theme is going a be a max effort by Red and the FBI to hunt down Liz's killers.  It would be nice to see Mathias Solomon get the typical three in the chest sendoff from Red but he's only the muscle, not the brains behind whatever this latest conspiracy is.

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Red also knew that Nick was very fond of Liz so the whole scene seemed off to me.

 

I know, it was off to me, too. Especially since Nick is Red's go-to doctor-on-the-payroll. Why would he kill him?  Unless he figured Nick was in on some plot to kill Liz, so manipulated her death/not-death.

 

I guess we'll find out. Maybe.

 

Too funny that Nick is the doctor. Like on The Simpson's: "Hi! I'm Doctor Nick!"

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Big question: IS DOCTOR NICK DEAD?

 

I don't think Dr. Nick is dead because the woman asked Reddington if he had ever spared someone who deserved to die.  That was the connection to the first scene with him pleading for his life.  I don't think he deserved to die, but maybe Reddington did.

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I don't think Dr. Nick is dead because the woman asked Reddington if he had ever spared someone who deserved to die.  That was the connection to the first scene with him pleading for his life.  I don't think he deserved to die, but maybe Reddington did.

I think that Red may have been talking about Tom.

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Because of this episode, I had a dream last night about being in a restroom and all the sinks were full of blood. I just got the connection. That was an inordinate amount of blood Red and the woman were dreaming-scrubbing, and it did sort of squee me out.

I think that Red may have been talking about Tom.

I think so too. That might have helped Red make up his mind to take Agnes from Tom and kick Tom out of the country. Or ... to wherever.

Edited by saber5055
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Well, one hand, James Spader and Lotte Verbeek (Ana Jarvis!!) gave great performances and interacted very well.  On the other hand, I was bored out of my fucking mind.  I get what the show was going for, but frankly, I don't think these guys are capable of pulling an episode like this off.  It just felt self-indulgent and like they really, really want to get Spader an Emmy nod and, with respect to his talent, I really can't see him ever getting nominated on this show.  The idea of The Blacklist being anywhere near the main categories is just laughable to me.  Then again, I guess stranger things have happened, so maybe they'll somehow pull it off (after-all, Mad Men is done, and Jon Hamm absence has opened up a new slot...)

 

Totally called the twist as soon as the cop didn't see the woman, and then there were other noticeable things like how she suddenly seemed dry again, after she was suppose to have just taken a bath.  But the show actually doing the big "Sixth Sense" reveal was just so laughable.

 

One thing that kept me entertained was pretending all that fake money was actually real, and James Spader just took it after they got done filming.  No one would stop him, because he's James Fucking Spader and he fucking earned it.  Because while actors can get too much credit at times, in this case, I truly think this show would have been dead and buried, had Spader not been attached.  

Edited by thuganomics85
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I was confused by the Dr. Nick scene as well (since they never went back to it in the episode), but someone pointed out to me that the opening was most likely a dream Red was having while asleep in the opium den, which is why in the next scene after the credits we see the lady waking him up.

I really hope it was indeed a dream, because I would be very disappointed in Red for killing a man for just trying to do his job.

The "sparing someone who deserved to die" was definitely referring to Tom. Red was talking about baby Agnes (interspersed with the scene of him talking to Tom) and said that harming him would harm her.

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Seeing an episode like this makes me wonder what could have been if the series had been about Red and just about Red. "Cape May" is proof positive that Red is compelling enough on his own to drive a narrative, and that he really doesn't need any sidekicks or designated antagonists to sell his story.

 

He can simply sell it himself.

 

Now, I did think this episode was kind of weak. It meandered quite a bit, and I was left wondering at times what the meaning of this exercise was. Of course, learning at the end that this was all just Red reliving the night of the fire meant that every sequence of events had a purpose, but it was tough staying focused long enough to eventually learn this was all a fakeout. Wonderfully done, I think, since I thought the woman was real until the end.

 

Having said all that, though- wouldn't this episode work so much better if it was the show's real pilot? You kind of had everything here to set up a series worth of adventures and exploration, as well as enough of a promise of action to keep people entertained. Who were the guys trying to kill the woman? Why did the guys want to kill the woman? Why did Red rescue the woman? What does Red want out of the woman? Etcetera, etcetera.

 

Furthermore, the episode was poignant and bittersweet, displaying the portrait of a man who must now rectify the life he chose to have. You often don't get to see a villain's vulnerable side and see it explored adequately, but "Cape May" showed that there's plenty for Red to explore. Just knowing that is what makes this episode a great pilot- the promise of a series where the villain is the one who has to do the soul searching and must ask the questions about his life and if his choices really were worth the effort.

 

From here, you tell the tale of a villain who must now make amends for the wrongs of his past while similarly seeking out the answers to the questions his past brought up. It would be part revenge, part introspection, part remorse, and would allow this show to have a cerebral element that I think it sorely lacks.

 

In a sense, it's like a reverse Criminal Minds...instead of the show being about the banality of evil, it'll be about why evil must be so banal. I'm telling you, it'd be "appointment television", especially if they have someone who is as truly compelling as James Spader is.

 

Heck, if The Blacklist won't do it, I will...I've been sitting on a similar idea myself, and stuff like this is why I got into writing in the first place.

 

So, in the end, we're left with an episode that really is just about "doing something different" and offering filler for the episodes to come, as well as showcasing just what this show could have been if they'd thought it out better. Almost par for the course for this show. Still, it was a nice departure from what they usually did, and having an episode where only Red is involved truly allowed him to shine.

 

Episode Grade: B-. Pacey at times, but I was still entertained, because Red is such a compelling character. There's also room for exploration on the themes this episode presented, although given the show's history, many of those themes were still rehashes. Still, it shows that even in S3, the writers aren't taking much for granted and still want to see this show grow.

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Of course, learning at the end that this was all just Red reliving the night of the fire

 

       Was this shown during or after the credits?  I completely missed it. 

 

       So was Lizzie's mother drowning herself while Red was rescuing Lil' Liz from the fire????

 

      

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Of course, learning at the end that this was all just Red reliving the night of the fire

Was this shown during or after the credits?  I completely missed it.

I didn't get that either -- last scene I saw was Red walking up the beach telling the guy with the metal detector that there was someone he needed to see.

On a compeltely different not, when they zoomed in on Red's eyes during the scene at the diner, you could clearly see that he was wearing contact lenses.

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Is it safe to watch this show again?  I heard in a commercial that Liz was dead and taped this one.  and thought WTF?  Very odd, and I thought it was off watching it.  Tho as others have said seeing Spader is always good.

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On a compeltely different not, when they zoomed in on Red's eyes during the scene at the diner, you could clearly see that he was wearing contact lenses.

 

People who sit to the side of me can see I am wearing contact lenses too. Spader and I must be astral twins!

 

Good thoughts, Daniel, that if this episode had been the pilot, this series could have been so much better. Red-centric instead of it being all about that insufferable Lizzie.

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       Was this shown during or after the credits?  I completely missed it. 

 

       So was Lizzie's mother drowning herself while Red was rescuing Lil' Liz from the fire????

 

That was my interpretation of those events. You're right, I don't think this was explicitly mentioned, but I assumed that since Red thought to relive this fantasy shortly after Lizzie's death, and thought long and hard about what his effect was on her life, that this was the moment he met Lizzie. Lizzie remembers a big fire and we did have a scene where one of the intruders was burned by a blast from a propane tank. Perhaps little Lizzie saw that and assumed that was "the fire".

 

Admittedly, I don't know where this leaves Lizzie shooting her own father, though I do believe that happened before the fire, so the timeline could make sense still.

 

Good thoughts, Daniel, that if this episode had been the pilot, this series could have been so much better. Red-centric instead of it being all about that insufferable Lizzie.

 

We could have even had a line in there where Red says "Katarina left a baby, and I've been looking after it since then, but always from afar. Now she wants to join the FBI, putting her potentially in the crosshairs of people who are going to want to destroy her. I need to protect her, the choice is made. I risk bringing destruction to her life, but I must do it- otherwise, she will certainly be destroyed".

 

Then you cue this show's actual Pilot as the second episode, having more properly framed all this as Red's mission, not Lizzie's, because that's what The Blacklist really is about.

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You know, this entire season has just highlighted how unneeded Liz is as a character--the show can go on just as well if not better if it didn't have Liz and her gross self-absorption dragging it down.  Red can still be an asset and Cooper can still have his badass FBI team solving the crimes brought to them.  Liz is not necessary to this process especially when there is a female on the show who can believably play a strong woman and competent agent.

And I steadfastly can not believe that a woman as awesome as Katerina Rustova gave birth to such a dud as Liz.  Their mother/daughter spy dynamic is the opposite of riveting especially because we already saw this storyline done to perfection--at least to me--on Alias.  Liz is no Sydney Bristow and Megan Boone isn't even close to Jennifer Garner's level of talent.

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Forgive me. I'm an imposter. I don't watch Blacklist. I tried, but I guess I didn't care for Lizzie or Tom. Since I live with someone who claims this is their favorite show, I hear bits and pieces about what's going on.  I made a joke last week when Lizzie was in dire shape by yelling out "Kill her off!".  I immediately felt bad. Awful thing to say. Then they turn around and kill her off.

 

I had a least three people I know, including my roommate, tell me this was a very different episode - but one they loved. So, I just watched it on On Demand and I found it extremely good. I might start watching Blacklist now.  I've always loved James Spader and now that, hopefully, those other two are gone (probably not), I'll try again. 

 

It did look like Lotte Verbeek's face was different in some way.  I knew that none of what was happening was really happening, but I had no idea who she was supposed to be. Is it correct that she is...ah..Lizzie's mother?  Bad thing about not knowing the whole backstory.  My mind went to all kinds of crazy places, like Red hallucinating Lizzie's grown up daughter.  Then I realized that wouldn't fit anything. Ha!  Glad they put that necklace in there. Katerina who?

 

Well, anyway, I enjoyed the episode as a one off.

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       Was this shown during or after the credits?  I completely missed it. 

 

       So was Lizzie's mother drowning herself while Red was rescuing Lil' Liz from the fire????

 

That's not quite the timeline. Liz shot her father on the night of the fire, and Red came and took her away. Katerina drowned herself - apparently at Cape May - at some point in the weeks/months that followed, because she was being doggedly pursued and knew that they wouldn't stop coming after her or possibly resorting to finding her daughter and getting to Katerina that way. 

 

I liked the episode. It was a bit uneven and thin at parts, and they're obviously working hard to get Spader an Emmy, but I'm okay with that. He works the hell out of any material he's given, even the semi-incoherent drivel that The Blacklist writers sometimes slide under his door. Showing Red in conflict over the life he chose is usually a good area to hit for them though. He's an incredibly interesting character in the hands of an actor who can sell that conflict well. On one hand, Red enjoys the perks of infamy. He obviously is having a good ass time, and he has an inner circle of people who would literally do anything for him. And on the other, that infamy has caused him to have to make tough choices that have cost him people that he cares about, and has left him isolated and feeling like he has his back to the wall. Any time we get to have that character fleshed out a bit more, I'm totally there. 

 

I'm honestly not sure if I want Liz back. There aren't a lot of shows that can withstand the demise of one of the central characters, but I think this one could, in part because it still has the more interesting of the two leads, and in part because it's not that great a show to begin with. We're not talking about 5th season West Wing here. 

Edited by Risky Librarian
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I really liked it. It was so much The Shining meets Home Alone. Loved the creepy camera work and all Spader all the time. 

 

My take was, all those things (the murders/killings, drownings, etc.) happened during Red's visit there "way back when," when he chose baby Lizzie instead of Lizzie's mom, who ended up drowning herself IRL. He was comparing that old event to what happened last week, he blames his decision on birthing Agnes in the disco for Lizzie's death.

 

Of course, the suggestion above, that Red was asleep in a Chinatown opium den, could account for much of those hallucinations. 

 

And unlike most of you, I was fooled that the woman was real up until the very end.

 

I have to say again, I really, really liked this episode. No Lizzie, even in flashbacks. Hooray! Plus his reliving this past event will give him a reason to take Agnes and kick Tom out into his own series. Hooray!

 

Big question: IS DOCTOR NICK DEAD?

I agree that he was remembering (perhaps with some hyperbole) a previous time/confrontation there. But the whole time, I thought he was remembering Mr. Kaplan and how he rescued her so many years ago. I was thinking if this all happened and he laid down his life for her, that explains her devotion now. Didn't even see that it was the mother until she said it. (I can't understand the mother's OR Lizzie's Russian names. )

 

Please don't be dead Dr. Nick.

 

So if Red was calling the lawyer (Fisher Stevens) and explaining that Dembe had POA - where WAS Dembe? He never lets Red out of his sight. Especially if he thought he was so devastated. Is Red on the run from his crime family?  I liked the woman at the restaurant - "Mr. Red...Time to go!"

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I made a joke last week when Lizzie was in dire shape by yelling out "Kill her off!".  I immediately felt bad. Awful thing to say. Then they turn around and kill her off.

So it's YOUR fault Lizzie died, AlwaysWatching. Thanks a lot for that. 

 

No, I mean it ... THANKS.

Is it correct that she is...ah..Lizzie's mother?  Bad thing about not knowing the whole backstory.  My mind went to all kinds of crazy places, like Red hallucinating Lizzie's grown up daughter.

Well, you watching for the first time puts you in the same place as we who have watched since S1 E1. I only ASSumed the woman was Lizzie's mom, the Russian spy, and Red was having an opium hallucination that he would save her life instead of letting her die, something to make himself justify letting Lizzie die to save Agnes. (Even though that's silly, Lizzie's complications had nothing to do with Red's decision to save her life by keeping her out of the hospital where Solomon was going to kill/capture her. But whatever.)

 

I don't know where the fire comes in if Lizzie Mom drowned herself. Maybe that was after the fire when Lizzie shot/killed her dad, then Lizzie got captured by the bad guys unless Mom turned herself in to the bad guys. So if Mom just killed herself, then Red could take Baby Lizzie since she was no longer needed.

 

Just my take on timeline. And, as we saw, Red doing the mind game of trying to save Mom didn't work. So now that the opium haze has worn off,  he realizes he needs to go take Agnes and kick Tom to the curb. 

 

Maybe.

 

Could anyone read what the inscription on the locket said? My tv is cr*p, small and dark, so I couldn't read it.

 

While I was feeling bad about Lizzie dying even though I don't like the character and actress, now that it's been a while, I'm looking forward to this show going on without her. Like I wanted a season ago, it can now be the Red/Ressler/Arim/Cooper show, with a little Navim tossed in. But only if she apologizes to Ressler.

Edited by saber5055
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This is the first time I've been able to bring myself to watch this show this season, but I thought at worst now I can have a few episodes without Lizzie's dead eyes. And, this was pretty much Both Sides Now, the last episode of season 4 of House, wasn't it? The drugs, the hallucinations, the imaginary woman, the interactions with people who have no idea what world he thinks they're in?

I genuinely hope Megan Boone decides to spend more time with her family. I think it would be less painful for all concerned.

Edited by Julia
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Could anyone read what the inscription on the locket said? My tv is cr*p, small and dark, so I couldn't read it.

It's not just you having trouble reading it, I couldn't really make it out either.

When Red reads it, he says: "To Katerina, love Paba"

Or at least it sounds like that.

I have to admit, my Russian isn't very good, I'm not sure that's what it says.

lU9YMOB.jpg

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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