S02.E06: Girls Hit the Road

[Micks Picks]

The thing I hated most about Anna was her constant blathering about babies.  I see that hasn't changed.  It's a bit worse, if anything. And the going on and on about courtships, gag me with a spoon.

 

There is no reasonable explanation for why they can't talk about something besides courtship and babies.  They could talk about some of the places they saw in DC.   They could talk about some of the shows in Branson they passed on in favor of massaging each other's feet and painting toenails.   They will be so unpopular with others when they are caught in a social situation.  There was a time in my life where I often found myself in company of women talking babies and cleaning supplies and tupperware or whatever. I had to lose those gals and fast.  I had more in common with their husbands, but of course I wasn't allowed to hang with them much, and wouldn't anyway since they were in the kind of jobs that were alien to me.  Talk of changing tires and car repairs got old fast.  The Duggar daughters could do so much better and they just won't.  Jessa is an absolute rock.

[GeeGolly]

Most casual conversations include recent happenings and topics including work, news, TV/movies, friends, future plans, etc. Take all that away and what do you have left? The Duggars don't even go to church.  The only current events they're aware of is politics and tragedies. I'm sure they've exhausted their talk about Andy & Opie and Fireproof. What is there to say about Sierra? So that leaves future plans, which for them includes babies and marriages. How sad.

 

Other than the cow, did they even talk during their ride to Branson? Did they bring a gospel CD and sing along? Did they count how many women's shoulders were showing in passing cars? What thoughts float around in these ladies brains?

[BitterApple]

The thing I hated most about Anna was her constant blathering about babies. I see that hasn't changed. It's a bit worse, if anything. And the going on and on about courtships, gag me with a spoon.

Anna is trying to push the J'Slaves onto the courtship/baby train as a way to validate her own life choices. She needs the reassurance that the Gothard life plan isn't a total crock of shit and she didn't royally screw herself by putting all her eggs in Smuggar's basket. The harsh reality that some men will cheat no matter how pretty/sexy/skinny/sweet/available a wife is, goes against everything Anna's been brainwashed to believe since childhood. In order for Anna to feel safe, 18 year-old Joy needs to marry a complete stranger and have two kids by 20.

Edited April 24, 2016 by BitterApple

[MamaMax]

I would bet my bottom dollar that the girls' USUAL conversation is 90% gossip, which they can not do on the teevee.

 

In a world as small as theirs, where no one reads, goes to movies, travels (without trying to convert anyone or without a TV crew), there's pretty much one thing to talk about: each other.  And how much you wanna bet they aren't all "my sweet friends" and "such an encouragement" when the cameras aren't rolling.

[cereality]

I would bet my bottom dollar that the girls' USUAL conversation is 90% gossip, which they can not do on the teevee.

 

In a world as small as theirs, where no one reads, goes to movies, travels (without trying to convert anyone or without a TV crew), there's pretty much one thing to talk about: each other.  And how much you wanna bet they aren't all "my sweet friends" and "such an encouragement" when the cameras aren't rolling.

I agree that people who have NOTHING to talk about do gossip a lot, but I can't even imagine what they gossip about? I mean I'm sure they talk smack about the few friends they have -- how forward the Bates girls are; how Amy isn't Godly bc she wears pants and had a boyfriend; how Sierra looks like she's 35 yrs old. But outside of that -- are they gossiping about each other bc that would require that one of them DO something? I think they probably do talk shit about Bin and Derick -- and by extension Jilly and Jessa. But the rest of them -- what's to say -- ooohhh did you see how bad Jana screwed up that tater tot casserole last night? I mean it's not like they can gossip about a sister who is sneaking around with a boyfriend or something.

[mythoughtis]

I think Anna talks about courtship, marriage, and babies with the girls on TV because she is REQUIRED to do so to stay in Michelle and Jim Bobs good graces and their dorm room (or pool house now that Josh is home).  She probably gets a talking to every day or so if she doesn't tow the line.

[MamaMax]

I agree that people who have NOTHING to talk about do gossip a lot, but I can't even imagine what they gossip about? I mean I'm sure they talk smack about the few friends they have -- how forward the Bates girls are; how Amy isn't Godly bc she wears pants and had a boyfriend; how Sierra looks like she's 35 yrs old. But outside of that -- are they gossiping about each other bc that would require that one of them DO something? I think they probably do talk shit about Bin and Derick -- and by extension Jilly and Jessa. But the rest of them -- what's to say -- ooohhh did you see how bad Jana screwed up that tater tot casserole last night? I mean it's not like they can gossip about a sister who is sneaking around with a boyfriend or something.

 

 

I have a feeling these girls spend A LOT of time looking over fences and comparing notes about how other "like-minded" people are living their lives. Do they have "normal" gossip? Probably not, but I'll bet they talk about why so-and-so isn't pregnant yet, about how other marriages and relationships work, about how other people dress, talk, eat, pray, kiss or don't, hold hands or don't,  court, end courtships, have marriage problems, whose husband hits them, whose mother-in-law hates them, I could go on..... Basically the Gothard leadership have made the whole lifestyle a competition on who is Godliest...and the Duggars were at the top bcause their quiver was so full... but you bet that kind of competition breeds jealousy and gossip.

Edited April 25, 2016 by MamaMax

[Marigold]

i tend to think the girls are basically pretty empty headed and spend a lot of time looking around at the air.

[pinguina]

I never went to restaurant until I was 20 or 21.  Mostly because as a family we didn't have any money, plus my dad and mom preferred being at home with my mom cooking all the meals.  It wasn't until I was in my third year of college that I began to go out to restaurants with friends after class that I learned how to order, check ingredients, how something was cooked, and - GASP! - try new things.  These girls (I can only think of them as girls) have gone to places and had experiences I have never had or will ever have but they were stumped by a menu in a restaurant in AMERICA?!  Sad....

And the dinner conversation - what was up with that??  You could hear their utensils as they ate.  And the lack of conversation - they could only talk about the food that they didn't recognize.  

I have a very good friend whom I have known forever - but we always have something to talk about: books, movies, politics, our jobs, our families.  Yes, they are the Duggers and don't do any of these things but if they are so into their religion they could talk about the bible, teachings, meaning of passages, how Jesus teachings affect their lives, how Jesus is in their lives, what is happening at their church, friends (they always say "---, my very good friend"). My friends and I talk about these things too, why can't they?

[sometimesy]

They don't let the world in. Their only topics are their insulated little lives. They don't follow people on Instagram, they don't meet new people, they travel in packs, or with their husbands glued to them (limiting people approaching them for conversation), and they tattle on each other. Their one way valve results in dull conversations. I agree with the poster above who said the girl talk was also censored and scripted for the cameras. Hey, let's talk about a possible hook for next season endlessly. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

I never went to restaurant until I was 20 or 21. Mostly because as a family we didn't have any money, plus my dad and mom preferred being at home with my mom cooking all the meals. It wasn't until I was in my third year of college that I began to go out to restaurants with friends after class that I learned how to order, check ingredients, how something was cooked, and - GASP! - try new things. These girls (I can only think of them as girls) have gone to places and had experiences I have never had or will ever have but they were stumped by a menu in a restaurant in AMERICA?! Sad....

And the dinner conversation - what was up with that?? You could hear their utensils as they ate. And the lack of conversation - they could only talk about the food that they didn't recognize.

I have a very good friend whom I have known forever - but we always have something to talk about: books, movies, politics, our jobs, our families. Yes, they are the Duggers and don't do any of these things but if they are so into their religion they could talk about the bible, teachings, meaning of passages, how Jesus teachings affect their lives, how Jesus is in their lives, what is happening at their church, friends (they always say "---, my very good friend"). My friends and I talk about these things too, why can't they?

Probably because they only memorize a select few Bible verses and don't care to understand the meaning behind it. They only know a few talking points: Babies and heterosexual marriage = good, gays and feminists= evil. Abortion and birth control are evil.

[becca3891]

Yes, to be fair, I agree with those saying that part of why they seem so stilted and quiet is because the are very aware that they're being filmed, and have even quite possibly been given conversational guidelines by the producers. Reality TV is a LOT more scripted than I used to realize. They really might be stopping and starting the cameras, saying things like, "All right, now Anna, this next take, why don't you turn to Joy and ask her if she has any courtship prospects." Or "Let's try another take of you guys trying to make sense of the menu. Talk about anything you've never heard of."

 

Conversation is never going to flow naturally when you're being filmed. But yes, they also are severely limited in what they can possibly talk about!

[Churchhoney]

 Yes, they are the Duggers and don't do any of these things but if they are so into their religion they could talk about the bible, teachings, meaning of passages, how Jesus teachings affect their lives, how Jesus is in their lives, what is happening at their church, friends (they always say "---, my very good friend"). My friends and I talk about these things too, why can't they?

 

It does seem bizarre. For one thing, though, it's my impression that in the Gothard cult there's no room for discussion of what Bible passages mean or exactly how to put Christian teachings into action. I think they're coached to memorize and accept an interpretation that's handed down from Bill above, and their job is to assiduously avoid scrutinizing it or asking any questions about it. (perhaps in large part because most of those interpretations don't actually bear scrutiny!) 

 

And, of course, they no longer have a "home church," and they don't seem to participate in any activities at the other church (churches?) they occasionally attend so they almost certainly don't know what's going on there. I'd also guess that their "very good friends" aren't really friends in any meaningful sense. Hanging around in large groups in the Duggar living room with Ma and Pa sitting right there isn't really conducive to friendship and, again, the Gothard cult clearly teaches -- we have tons of documentary evidence from other people about this -- that the mere existence of friends is considered to be a mortal threat to one's eternal soul, particularly for children, teens and young adults. They're required to travel in large groups, usually with chaperones, to avoid conversation or any experimentation or fun that isn't 100 percent parent-sanctioned and supervised.

 

My family successfully kept me from having any friends without the assistance of any cult, and I actually went to public school. So I imagine the Duggars do a pretty brilliant job of enforcing the Gothard teachings on this, since they're the exact same kind of control freaks that I grew up with, as far as I can tell. And just as with the Duggars,  my family has continually insisted over the decades -- and continues to insist -- that I had numerous good friends growing up. ... In fact, I had no friends, good or otherwise, except the ones I made up in my head. So the "my very good friend" talk is coached. And, very much to my horror, a lot of the Duggar offspring appear to actually believe it.

 

Anyway, all this being the case, I'm guessing they truly do have nothing to talk about. And I think their long-running tv shows attest to this fact. Aside from Internet snippets I've only watched two 15-20 minute segments of any of their shows, and I swear that in one of them they repeated the same talking-head segment three times in that period. I think all of this is why! .... Dinner conversation ain't happening with this crowd.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Churchhoney

[MamaMax]

I thought I remembered for waaaaaaaay back that TLC doesn't let them be too overly religous.... does anyone know if that's the case? Perhaps they always sound so stilted because they can't say what they normally would....

[Whyyouneedaname]

 

 

And, of course, they no longer have a "home church," and they don't seem to participate in any activities at the other church (churches?) they occasionally attend so they almost certainly don't know what's going on there. I'd also guess that their "very good friends" aren't really friends in any meaningful sense. Hanging around in large groups in the Duggar living room with Ma and Pa sitting right there isn't really conducive to friendship and, again, the Gothard cult clearly teaches -- we have tons of documentary evidence from other people about this -- that the mere existence of friends is considered to be a mortal threat to one's eternal soul, particularly for children, teens and young adults. They're required to travel in large groups, usually with chaperones, to avoid conversation or any experimentation or fun that isn't 100 percent parent-sanctioned and supervised.

 

My family successfully kept me from having any friends without the assistance of any cult, and I actually went to public school. So I imagine the Duggars do a pretty brilliant job of enforcing the Gothard teachings on this, since they're the exact same kind of control freaks that I grew up with, as far as I can tell. And just as with the Duggars,  my family has continually insisted over the decades -- and continues to insist -- that I had numerous good friends growing up. ... In fact, I had no friends, good or otherwise, except the ones I made up in my head. So the "my very good friend" talk is coached. And, very much to my horror, a lot of the Duggar offspring appear to actually believe it.

 

 

where did this Gothard dude come from & what drove him to begin his teachings anyway. I only know what little I do from message boards and tabloids. Would he still be an active teacher of sorts had the Duggars not been famous and then the downfall with Josh brought everything to light? 

[Diffy]

where did this Gothard dude come from & what drove him to begin his teachings anyway. I only know what little I do from message boards and tabloids. Would he still be an active teacher of sorts had the Duggars not been famous and then the downfall with Josh brought everything to light? 

 

 Josh Duggars's downfall merely drew the attention of fans of the Duggar TV show to well known problems with Gothard's organization.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gothard

 

Gothard is still trying to be an active teacher and pastor although he is in the throes of his own scandals that are far bigger and predate Josh Duggar's  disgrace by a long time.   http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/oak-brook-religious-group-sued-over-sex-harassment-allegations/

and

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/january/more-women-sue-bill-gothard-iblp-alleging-sexual-abuse.html

[becca3891]

I thought I remembered for waaaaaaaay back that TLC doesn't let them be too overly religous.... does anyone know if that's the case? Perhaps they always sound so stilted because they can't say what they normally would....

I remember just the opposite --that they only agreed to be on TLC if their faith was not edited out. They seem to talk about it a lot, in my opinion!

[Aja]

For whatever reason, they've always been REEEEEEALLY careful about associating themselves with Gothard, except for on their website where they pimp his Satanic literature. They literally tailor every single facet of their lives, down to the most intimate and personal, to suit a greasy, balding, perverted snake oil salesman with a fetish for young girls, yet it appears to be strictly verboten to actually confirm any ties to him. "WE TOTALLY WORSHIP this guy we barely know AND USE HIS CRAP TO 'EDUCATE' OUR KIDS." Duggars, it would behoove you greatly to stop assuming everyone has the same short-term memory difficulties that you have.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Aja

[kokapetl]

There were like 200 19 Kids & Counting episodes. Very little religion. The home churching got 1 episode, and all I can remember is every family brought along a crock pot of food, and it was yokel amateur hour on the "churching", there didn't seem to be any trained clergy.

[Happyfatchick]

-Anna shut up. I swear if melancholy was visible Anna would be carrying around a dust-storm like pig pen.

That is EXACTLY the image I get whenever I see Anna, even a still shot. She ALWAYS has a rain cloud over her head.

[Marigold]

Yes, to be fair, I agree with those saying that part of why they seem so stilted and quiet is because the are very aware that they're being filmed, and have even quite possibly been given conversational guidelines by the producers. Reality TV is a LOT more scripted than I used to realize. They really might be stopping and starting the cameras, saying things like, "All right, now Anna, this next take, why don't you turn to Joy and ask her if she has any courtship prospects." Or "Let's try another take of you guys trying to make sense of the menu. Talk about anything you've never heard of."

 

Conversation is never going to flow naturally when you're being filmed. But yes, they also are severely limited in what they can possibly talk about!

That is also very possible. A team of people telling them what topics to discuss and when.

Reality TV is very scripted; we forget that sometimes.

[Clemgo3165]

I never went to restaurant until I was 20 or 21.  Mostly because as a family we didn't have any money, plus my dad and mom preferred being at home with my mom cooking all the meals.  It wasn't until I was in my third year of college that I began to go out to restaurants with friends after class that I learned how to order, check ingredients, how something was cooked, and - GASP! - try new things.  These girls (I can only think of them as girls) have gone to places and had experiences I have never had or will ever have but they were stumped by a menu in a restaurant in AMERICA?!  Sad....

And the dinner conversation - what was up with that??  You could hear their utensils as they ate.  And the lack of conversation - they could only talk about the food that they didn't recognize.  

I have a very good friend whom I have known forever - but we always have something to talk about: books, movies, politics, our jobs, our families.  Yes, they are the Duggers and don't do any of these things but if they are so into their religion they could talk about the bible, teachings, meaning of passages, how Jesus teachings affect their lives, how Jesus is in their lives, what is happening at their church, friends (they always say "---, my very good friend"). My friends and I talk about these things too, why can't they?

 

That's what got me. Whenever I'm among a group of women there is ALWAYS something to talk about, and plenty to laugh about too. Why is the conversation so stilted, especially among sibs? 

[BitterApple]

That's what got me. Whenever I'm among a group of women there is ALWAYS something to talk about, and plenty to laugh about too. Why is the conversation so stilted, especially among sibs?

I'm guessing the sisters aren't that close and have little to do with one another once they get married. I think Jana and Anna had a genuine friendship, but Jessa dropped Jinger like a bad habit and nobody ever really liked Jill. Joy could care less about marriage and babies, and there isn't a whole lot else to talk about.

At this stage of the game, the only one who benefits from keeping the show going is Jessa. I think that's why she's putting extras on everything while the other girls sit in awkward silence and act like they don't want to be there. Cameras or no cameras, Jana's life sucks either way.

Edited April 25, 2016 by BitterApple

[DangerousMinds]

It does seem bizarre. For one thing, though, it's my impression that in the Gothard cult there's no room for discussion of what Bible passages mean or exactly how to put Christian teachings into action. I think they're coached to memorize and accept an interpretation that's handed down from Bill above, and their job is to assiduously avoid scrutinizing it or asking any questions about it. (perhaps in large part because most of those interpretations don't actually bear scrutiny!) 

 

My family successfully kept me from having any friends without the assistance of any cult, and I actually went to public school. So I imagine the Duggars do a pretty brilliant job of enforcing the Gothard teachings on this, since they're the exact same kind of control freaks that I grew up with, as far as I can tell. And just as with the Duggars,  my family has continually insisted over the decades -- and continues to insist -- that I had numerous good friends growing up. ... In fact, I had no friends, good or otherwise, except the ones I made up in my head. So the "my very good friend" talk is coached. And, very much to my horror, a lot of the Duggar offspring appear to actually believe it.

 

Anyway, all this being the case, I'm guessing they truly do have nothing to talk about. And I think their long-running tv shows attest to this fact. Aside from Internet snippets I've only watched two 15-20 minute segments of any of their shows, and I swear that in one of them they repeated the same talking-head segment three times in that period. I think all of this is why! .... Dinner conversation ain't happening with this crowd.

But doesn't their "courting" process entail discussing bible verses with one another?

[Aja]

But doesn't their "courting" process entail discussing bible verses with one another?

They think just quoting verses back and forth to each other is the same thing as discussing it.

[Churchhoney]

But doesn't their "courting" process entail discussing bible verses with one another?

 

I'm pretty sure they just check up on whether the other person has the "right" slant on the verse according to Gothard. When you look at the ATI materials, it all seems pretty prescriptive -- very reminiscent of Scientology materials, where the man in charge defines all the words for you and gives you the proper paraphrase, which you then learn to parrot back. Looks to me as if debate of what a passage means doesn't have much, if any, part in Gothardian religious studies, although there may well be stuff that I'm not aware of.

[Churchhoney]

That's what got me. Whenever I'm among a group of women there is ALWAYS something to talk about, and plenty to laugh about too. Why is the conversation so stilted, especially among sibs? 

 

In a family like theirs, you do not ever relax. And you don't trust anybody. Plus, your family and your cult leader have continually coached you to represent yourself in a certain way to strangers -- like the tv audience.

 

They aren't anywhere close to being normal people, but normal people almost never recognize abnormality of the Duggar kind because it's so remote from most people's experience that they don't even realize it exists.

[becca3891]

There were like 200 19 Kids & Counting episodes. Very little religion. The home churching got 1 episode, and all I can remember is every family brought along a crock pot of food, and it was yokel amateur hour on the "churching", there didn't seem to be any trained clergy.

Well, if you define religion as showing their church services, then no. But I'm talking their constant Christianity references, talking points, etc. They typically fit that in every episode. Buzzwords like ministry, the Lord's timing, waiting for the one the Lord has for you, etc.

[queenanne]

In my experience, the guesses about gossiping are correct.  It's either gossiping, or the talking points of Ted Cruz et al filtered through...whatever conservative filter has been applied to the current events passing down towards them. The priority behind the tut-tutting will devolve 100% to the same conversation about how we're clearly approaching Armageddon at mach speed.

[louannems]

A Servant's Heart!

Walking Through Fire!

A Righteous Heart!

Do God's Will!

Loves the Lord!

Pieces of Your Heart!

[Mrsjumbo]

I think this show is fakety-fake like all reality shows. I think they do have real conversations but have been coached that certain topics are forbidden: Gothard, religion besides empty platitudes, politics, gossiping about actual friends or courtships before they are aired on tv. Imagine having a film crew while you sat down to dinner with your family. Conversation wouldn't sound natural at all as everyone is just playing a role.

I'm still laughing at the Jessica Simpson/Bin comment on the other page.

This site is way more entertaining than the actual show. It astounds me that they have such a viewership.

And *thanks* for all of the comments here- I had to take a break for a few days because of eyestrain (reading this on my phone)! J/k, I love the snark!

[cmr2014]

I remember just the opposite --that they only agreed to be on TLC if their faith was not edited out. They seem to talk about it a lot, in my opinion!

 

I think that that's what they say, but that's not really the truth. They are represented as a "Christian" family, and they talk a lot about "the Lord" and "prayer" and other religious buzz-words, but not a lot of it makes it into the show. Something like 67% of the people in the US identify as Christian, but very few would identify with Christianity as practiced by the Duggars.

 

For instance, they don't believe in evolution, and took their family to the "Creation Museum" as some sort of "educational" experience, but we don't see that on the show. They have odd, off-putting beliefs about women causing men to sin by their very existence, but we only see that in their endless blather about "modest" clothing, and the humorous "nike" moments. The children are all purposefully isolated -- don't go to school, or church, or have outside activities or friends. That is presented as "my sisters are my best friends," rather than "we control every moment of our children's lives."

 

Their beliefs are presented, but they are sanitized, so that the family looks like a harmless bit of nostalgia for a by-gone era instead of the complete freak-show that they really represent.

[becca3891]

Editing because I think I partially misunderstood you. Yes, I agree that they attempt to whitewash the most extreme of their views.

Edited April 26, 2016 by becca3891

[StaceyNotStacie]

I caught the replay this past Tuesday. They asked the girls about phobias and Jana mentioned flying and a distrust of aircraft. I wonder if she's had one too many flights on a Duggar aircraft. 

[riverblue22]

They need to work on those cardigans.  They didn't measure up to the pretty dresses at all.  I guess you don't find the prettiest cardigans at the thrift shop.

[Micks Picks]

I saw a comment elsewhere that the restaurant and lodge they stayed at took down their websites, presumably because of negative activity after this episode.  Does anyone know anything about this?   I don't remember the name of the lodge or restaurant (didn't pay any attention to it, actually) so can't look it up.

[kokapetl]

The bear themed motel got backlash? How sad. 

[Sew Sumi]

From what I understand, they did a bit of self-promotion due to the Duggars staying there. THAT is what got them in trouble. Even Tacos4Life didn't brag on their Z-list clientele. 

[Teena]

I just watched this episode.

When I watch the Duggars, I try to understand why I find them so off-putting.   I can tolerate religion--it's their choice. I don't see it as a sentence. I've concluded that if the kids  really wanted out, they could get out.  

Their total segregation of themselves is what bothers me.

At the bear lodge, they could have had a manicurist come in and do all their nails--instead, they did each other's nails.  That's a fail in my books.  If my sister in law has to wash my bloody feet in a foot bath, that's not exactly a night "out" for her.   Geez!  Also--what was with wearing clothes UNDER the robes?  What was the point of the robes---to look more Spa-ish?  They do these absolutely outlandish things and then say "we're just like the rest of y'all"....NO, you're not!

There was NOTHING "ritzy" about that restaurant.  I find it so amazing that these girls have no knowledge of cooking outside of the crap they prepare at home.  I'm a forty-something woman with a career and in between studying, working and having pre-marital sex,  I found time to learn how to cook real food (like leeks!!!!) and I know what "scallopini" is.  How is it that women in their 20's with nothing to do all day but housework, can't learn a thing or two about cooking food?  If I had a huge, industrial sized kitchen like theirs at my disposal, I'd be opening a catering company! 

I wonder if these women know how sex-centred their lives REALLY are?  First comes courting, then babies (but let's face it, the babies are only there because they are the consequence of unprotected sex).....everything they talk about is....courting, engagement, marriage, children.  They speak of procreation the same way my friends and I spoke about sex in our 20's.   It's amazing....

[Aja]

Omigod, the fundie obsession with sex is second only to, like, Larry Flynt's. 

[MarkySnark]

Best moment of the episode for me... Someone asks what scallops are and smug-ass Jessa, thinking she knows more than everyone, says they are like onions. No, honey. You are thinking of shallots, not scallops. She just said it like she was so sure of herself that I almost pissed myself trying not to laugh out loud because Mrs. Snark won't let me make fun of the Duggars.

[lexington11]

On 4/21/2016 at 6:55 AM, mbutterfly said:

They need to have a boy-girl set of twins courting simultaneously with a double wedding. 

Now I need brain bleach just thinking about the poor sap who JD manages to con into any sort of courtship with him.