S04.E01: The Collapse Of Nature

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After two months of respite, Sarah's hard-won refuge in Iceland is shattered by a Neolution attack. Once again forced to flee, she realizes no matter how far her family runs it will never be far enough.

 

[Valny]

That was a pretty interesting/cool season opener.Some great flashbacky goodness!

I like MK. I was trying to figure out what kind of accent she was going with. It sounded a bit like a version of Rooney Mara's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
The Beth/Art scene was weird. You know which one!! How did everyone feel about that?

Oh no, we had to see Olivier and that damn tail again!

But, hi Felix for 10 seconds! And aw,.. it's Raj.

I wonder if they are even going to go further back and see how the core clones first knew about each other? I'd like to see that.

 

Is that After the Black host trying to sound like Chris Hardwick?

Edited April 15, 2016 by Valny

[ForeverAlone]

I really liked this episode. It was a good throwback to season one and gave us a look at what was going on in Beth's life before she committed suicide. It was nice to see those little throwbacks and ties.

 

I was genuinely thrown by the revelation that Beth and Art actually had sex. I knew he was into her, but didn't realize it was reciprocated. 

 

I like the new clone and am very curious what she will bring to the current timeline. 

 

Overall, I am very much looking forward to the rest of season four. I probably should do a season 1-3 rewatch to refresh my memory before this season goes any further. 

[Primetimer]

The Season 4 premiere goes way back.

Read the story

[jch323]

 

I was genuinely thrown by the revelation that Beth and Art actually had sex. I knew he was into her, but didn't realize it was reciprocated.

 

Well, she had just been rejected by her lover, contemplated shooting him in the head, and was drunk and high. And afterward she killed a civilian and threw herself in front of a train. Perhaps "reciprocated" isn't the right word.

[WatchrTina]

 

I like MK. I was trying to figure out what kind of accent she was going with. It sounded a bit like a version of Rooney Mara's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.

In the After The Black show Tatiana said she was influenced by Bjork so maybe the Swedish, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo vibe you were picking up was actually an Icelandic vibe.

 

I liked going back in time to get to meet the real Beth, though it was a bit trippy to see all those characters that are already dead in the show.   I don't think I realized she had a drug problem.

[MarquisDeCarabas]

She's probably not Finnish but MK is obviously a survivor of Helsinki

 

and I think Valny he always sounds like that

[Lady Calypso]

That was actually really awesome. I loved every single callback to the first season. Some of them I had to think about, and I'm sure a couple flew over my head, but I loved the ones that I recognized.

 

I have been waiting to hear more about Beth, so having her as the primary character in this flashback episode was great. 

 

I like MK a bit. I'm interested in seeing how she interacts with the other clones now. 

 

The Art/Beth scene was....well, I had been hoping they wouldn't go there, but they did. It was also nice to see Paul/Beth's relationship a little bit. I feel like I might have to go back to some season 1 episodes, just to get a refresh on that relationship.

[Conan Troutman]

Do you think they bring back Beth? I expected some flashbacks over the course of the season, but an entire season premiere devoted to her makes me think she actually may be coming back.

 

There are some reasons why she might have faked her suicide:

 

- She's off the case now and creepy guy will make sure it stays that way, so her being a cop doesn't really have benefits

- She's afraid they're going to take away her badge anyway after shooting that woman

- She needs to go underground so she won't be bothered by the bad guys

- She also needs to get away from Paul, but may not be able to break up

 

We don't know how many other clones she knew of, but MK might know some. If one of them suffers from the disease Cosima and I think Jennifer (the clone who died in the lab) had/have, she might be willing to offer to sacrifice herself as she's going to die soon anyway and could want to end it now. You'd need to explain what happened to her, but I guess you could find a way.

 

I'm not sure if that's the route the show is going for, but at least it would be plausible and not seem like a lame twist.

 

Anyway, great episode (despite the lack of Helena and Krystal, but you can't have everything) and aside from the speculation, it was really nice to see more of Beth. MK seems like she could be very useful and the clones certainly need all the help they can get.

 

What are those things from the cheeks supposed to be? Mind controlling worms?

[godonlyknows]

My heart breaks every time a clone cries but seeing Beth cry was really painful. I loved this episode and I love Art's friendship with Beth (still not sure how I feel about them sleeping together though I can understand why Beth did it).

 

Beth & MK together reminded me so much of Sarah & Helena.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So wait, was Xan Yip posing as crime scene/medical examiner? And why? If so, that sucks because I liked her.

 

Loved that we got more background on Beth and her relationships with Art, Alison, and Cosima.

 

I'm not surprised that Beth slept with Art. Aside from suspecting Paul of being her monitor, he wouldn't even look her in the eye or kiss her so not only was he untrustworthy but he made her feel like shit. I think that being with Art was more about what she said to Paul - she wanted to be seen and touched so that she could feel like a human being for a few minutes.

 

I feel like the show wandered off its original path a bit in the last two seasons so I liked that this episode brought us back to the beginning and reminded us about all of these characters - even Ramon!

[Ravenya003]

This was a great episode to remind me how much I love this show.

 

Great to have a little prequel concerning the events leading up to Beth's suicide, and what I found especially fascinating was that SHE was the reason Alison and Cosima found out they were clones. MK contacted Beth, and Beth (presumably) introduced herself to the other two. Which means, among other things, that MK is the instigator of everything the clones are going through. Without her, they wouldn't be self-aware.

 

Some of the retcons were a little iffy. For instance, I thought it had been established that Beth deliberately shot Maggie Chen, knowing that she was a religious nut out to kill her sisters. Sure, she tried to pass it off as an accident at the time, but I'm sure season 1 confirmed that it was a deliberate shooting.

 

Also, it was a little iffy to see Paul and Art, knowing that in season 1 Paul was being blackmailed by Dyad into monitoring Beth (not a military spy, as season 3 retconned him into) and that Art initially just looked upon Beth as a partner (knowing that they slept together, it's lucky for season 1 Sarah that he never brought it up in conversation). 

 

Interesting to see just how early Leekie and Olivier came face to face with a clone. And so many cameos from the past! Angie, Raj, Janice - it made me realize how much I miss the police team of the first season. And I'm assuming all the new faces will be popping up in episodes to come. 

 

A little unpleasant to see how Alison was enabling Beth with her pills/urine sample - no wonder she was so jittery when we first met her. 

[Blackie]

Great episode.  I actually paid attention to the whole episode.  In the previous season I found my attention wandering when the plot got so convoluted and twisted and Tat wasn't the main part of it.

[Kaboom 2.0]

I agree, this was one of the best premiere eps I've seen in a long time. Love love love how we got to know Beth a little more, she's no longer the clone that just gave up and stepped in front of that train, she had SO much going on, so much unraveling, so much happening. I too thought the Maggie Chen shooting was because Beth specifically knew that Maggie was involved with the super-religious folk out to destroy the clones, was that deliberately changed by the show runners??

FWIW I re-binged last season this week in preparation for the premiere, I'm glad I did, I had forgotten some things that happened. And I can't help it, I hope we see Ferdinand again this season, he always makes me smile!

 

Oh Art. I just wanna hug ya. And I so heart Ramone and his devotion to Alison, lol.

 

Damned Neolutionists, they really are still everywhere. It was so great to see Leekie again, hell even Olivier and his disturbing tail interacting with his fabulous stylist made me shake my head. I was briefly concerned about the child Beth's now-source at Olivier's club is carrying, is it like, a normal child. or have they Neolutioned the poor thing? Eek.

 

MK intrigues me. Someone above mentioned the possibility that she survived Helsinki, I so want to know more about what happened there. She's survived this long, has she been keeping virtual eyes and ears on Clone Club this whole time? Besides Tony, how many more clones are out there that we have not seen yet?

 

I'm sure there's more to say/ponder/speculate about but I'm still riding high that our sestras our back. :-)

[Brn2bwild]

This episode made me sad that Beth didn't stay alive long enough to get to know Sarah.  I think they could have made a good Oscar-Felix duo.

[Desiree]

So happy this show is back! I really enjoyed the episode, but have to admit that I missed Sarah as she's always been the anchor on this show for me. Seeing Beths backstory was amazing. I had a few AHA! moments that, even though when they shot season 1 they may not have been thinking about what came up in last nights episodes, really seemed to connect for me. The one thing that was a revelation was the fact that it was Paul who was turning down Beths advances, not the other way around. He had made it out to be, in the first season, that Beth had lost interest in sex with him, but now we see it was the other way around. Guilt on his part perhaps? 

 

Was it really established that Beth knew who Maggie Chen was when she shot her, in season 1 or was that assumed on Sarah and the other clones parts because it seemed so obvious that that would be the reason why? I don't think it was established that Beth actually knew, but it was discovered that Maggie Chen was apart of Helena's group so the assumption is Beth took her out. But as we saw, there were factions of all the different groups all over the police. It's not hard to think that Maggie Chen had been following Beth for a while and not expecting her to come running out into the alley like that, it was a complete coincidence that Beth ran into and shot her. 

 

I wasn't upset with the Art and Beth sex scene and don't really think of it as a romance. Beth was vulnerable, she had just been turned down by Paul, maybe for the umpteenth time, she was high and she has so many questions about her origins that she's trying to get answers for, Art seems to be the one solid thing in her life. Of course she turned to him. But I think had Beth lived, it would have been a one time thing as she needs him to continue to be her rock and she wouldn't want to jeopardize that by a continuing relationship. 

 

Now it makes ever more sense to me why Alison was so devastated by Beths death. Beyond them being clones and friendly, Beth was the one who sought out Alison and Cosima and reveled what they are to them. And she promised to find answers and was actively working towards that goal. To then commit suicide, Alison must have felt completely betrayed and lost because now how will they get the answers they needed? Plus, I'm sure there was some guilt on Alisons part for providing "little helpers" to Beth. She may feel she somehow contributed to Beth falling apart.

[shapeshifter]

I was sad to see Beth's drug problem, but it explained the suicide to me.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Towards the end there, I just wanted to give Beth a big, warm hug and tell her everything would be all right. I know it wouldn't help, but the poor woman looked like she really needed one.

If this episode's Tatiana's Emmy submission this year, she's a lock for another nomination. Powerful stuff.

[Dream Boy]

Really good episode! I also enjoyed all of the callbacks. Poor Beth. It's even sadder that we didn't get to really know her until now. 

 

Was it really established that Beth knew who Maggie Chen was when she shot her, in season 1 or was that assumed on Sarah and the other clones parts because it seemed so obvious that that would be the reason why? I don't think it was established that Beth actually knew, but it was discovered that Maggie Chen was apart of Helena's group so the assumption is Beth took her out. But as we saw, there were factions of all the different groups all over the police. It's not hard to think that Maggie Chen had been following Beth for a while and not expecting her to come running out into the alley like that, it was a complete coincidence that Beth ran into and shot her.

 

Yeah, I can't remember if it was established or not that Beth knew about Maggie's connection. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Dream Boy

[Makenna]

Was it ever stated exactly where Allison was getting the money to give to Beth and Cosima??? It seems like she had a lot of disposable income for a family of 4. 

[Cyranetta]

For me the amazing thing about this season opener was that just one bit of dialogue -- "Look at me - see me" -- was like a pebble dropped in a pool and made me realize anew how well this show interlayers complexity. 

 

It seems like, for Beth, just being a clone is more emotionally damaging than for Cosima or Alison, so she has a deep need to be seen as an individual.

 

MK, on the other hand, has a desperate need NOT to be seen.

 

The Neolutionists are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to be seen, but the the other organizations need to be hidden to be effective.

 

Felix also goes to extraordinary lengths to be seen, but eventually he will go to even more extraordinary lengths to help various clones not to be seen.

 

The whole series is actually a web of push-pull tensions between needing to be seen and needing to be hidden.

[Triskan]

Loved the episode but I must say I'm not to convinced by MK... seems like a Helena repeat to me, but we'll see...

[Lady Calypso]

Loved the episode but I must say I'm not to convinced by MK... seems like a Helena repeat to me, but we'll see...

 

I personally disagree with this, only because MK seems less dangerous. They are certainly similar in some ways-- for example, doing what needs to be done in order to survive-- but I think MK, at the moment, is in hiding and has been on the run for years, yet knows a lot more than any of the other clones. She seems smarter and more willing to think before acting, while Helena is exactly the opposite. Now, I won't be surprised if we find out that MK has had to kill to protect herself, but her and Helena are definitely different. It's why I look forward to their interactions the most.

[Sakura12]

Seeing Beth's backstory makes me want to watch season 1 with that knowledge. It was interesting to know that she was a drug addict before Maggie Chen and that she didn't really know her other than probably being a neolutionist. I also did not know Beth and Art hooked up. I knew he was in love with her, didn't know they slept together before she died. No wonder he had no clue what going on with SarahBeth acting like nothing happened at all and not just pretending nothing happened.

 

I loved seeing all the old characters pop back up for the flashback. Paul was really a dick to Beth. It's interesting that he fell so hard for Sarah.

 

MK was giving me Girl with the Dragon Tattoo vibes. I know Tat based her off Bjork, but as far as I know Bjork isn't a hacker with serve emotional and paranoia issues. That's Lizbeth Salander. Either way Tatiana still manages to surprise me with how good she is. When they did the set interview I was wondering why there weren't interviewing everyone before realizing there is only one Tatiana.

[Ravenya003]

Was it really established that Beth knew who Maggie Chen was when she shot her, in season 1 or was that assumed on Sarah and the other clones parts because it seemed so obvious that that would be the reason why? I don't think it was established that Beth actually knew, but it was discovered that Maggie Chen was apart of Helena's group so the assumption is Beth took her out. But as we saw, there were factions of all the different groups all over the police.

 

 

In hindsight, I'm second-guessing what I originally wrote. In season one, Beth's fellow police officers assumed the death was an accidental shooting, and by extension so did the clones. Then Helena told Sarah (I think?) that Maggie was "one of them" and the clones then began to assume Beth had deliberately killed her to protect them.

 

There was a lot of assuming going on, but given that we've now seen the event, it's possible Maggie was deliberately following Beth, and ended up in the wrong place/wrong time. It remains to be seen whether Beth ever found out Maggie was up to no good.

[kat165]

I really missed Sarah, Felix and Mrs. M this episode, but loved the call back to the first season.

I loathe/loathed those Castor clones so it was a relief not see them & go back to the beginning

again. It was great to get to know Beth better and see so many of the characters that are no

longer with us, even if I didn't care for most of them (the guy with the tail, Paul).

 

EB, I didn't recognize the medical examiner. Who is/was she? And that creepy guy from IA who

was helping remove the chip from pregnant girl's bf, have we seen him before?

 

Awesome start to the new season. I've missed this show.

 

That Aftershow kind of sucked. The hosts were so early morning broadcast tv chipper,

couldn't stand them. I wish we'd gotten to hear more from Tat and "Art" rather than those

2 talking and the social media questions.

[Desiree]

In hindsight, I'm second-guessing what I originally wrote. In season one, Beth's fellow police officers assumed the death was an accidental shooting, and by extension so did the clones. Then Helena told Sarah (I think?) that Maggie was "one of them" and the clones then began to assume Beth had deliberately killed her to protect them.

 

There was a lot of assuming going on, but given that we've now seen the event, it's possible Maggie was deliberately following Beth, and ended up in the wrong place/wrong time. It remains to be seen whether Beth ever found out Maggie was up to no good.

What really cements it for me, now I think about last nights episode, Beth saying out loud to herself "I've shot a civilian". To me that definitely sounds as if she didn't know Maggie Chen and how she was connected to the Leda clones. She just thought she shot an innocent passerby. However we know that Maggie Chen was probably following Beth, Beth just didn't know it. Yes, it remains to be seen whether Beth finds out who Maggie Chen ultimately was. Given that Allison and Cosima didn't seem to know, I'm not sure Beth knew. 

[Anisky]

Do you think they bring back Beth? I expected some flashbacks over the course of the season, but an entire season premiere devoted to her makes me think she actually may be coming back.

 

There are some reasons why she might have faked her suicide:

 

- She's off the case now and creepy guy will make sure it stays that way, so her being a cop doesn't really have benefits

- She's afraid they're going to take away her badge anyway after shooting that woman

- She needs to go underground so she won't be bothered by the bad guys

- She also needs to get away from Paul, but may not be able to break up

 

MK also said that the only reason she's survived is because everyone thinks she's dead, so she must have faked her own death. At the end, Beth says to MK, "No wonder you live like this" (paraphrase). That also could be a clue that Beth faked her own death for similar reasons. Or, it could just be a misdirect. 

 

Side note: I'm a little weirded out because MK are my initials. 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Anisky

[thuganomics85]

Damn, have the entire premiere just basically be a flashback set before the pilot?  That's usually a sign that the show is pretty confident in itself, which is a good thing. I missed the current characters (although I'm glad they still worked in appearances from Alison, Cosima, Felix, etc.), but I enjoyed seeing Beth before we see her commit suicide.  She really was messed up with all the pill-popping, but I guess I can't fully blame her considering the battle she had against Nevoultion, and consistently fearing that someone is watching and monitoring her.  And then what really happened to shooting Margaret Chen.  Yeah, I can see why ended up becoming the Beth who tossed herself in front of a train in the pilot.

 

Glad to see Art get more to do in this one, since he tends to usually be in the background.  Didn't see him and Beth actually hooking up, but I guess I can see it.  And seeing how far he went to help cover up Beth's shooting was interesting.  Nice to see Kevin Hanchard get more to do.

 

Enjoyed seeing some of the earlier characters again like Angie, Raj, Olivier (and that creepy tail of his), and especially Dr. Leekie.  It's still hilarious seeing Dr. Leekie be all commanding and pompous, knowing that he ends up being brought down by fucking Donnie, and is currently buried underneath Alison and Donnie's garage.

 

Another clone in the form of MK.  Her accent did remind me a bit of Helena at times, but I like that she seemed to be more immature and even looked younger compared to the other clones.  Glad it sounds like she'll be back into the fold, although I really hope they find a way to work Krystal back.  Krystal was awesome.

 

Got the impression that the Evie character that was hanging with Leekie is being set up to be important this season.

 

Curious to see where this season goes!

[holly4755]

It was a revelation how deep in depression that Beth was and kind of why. I don 't think she could fake her own death by walking into a moving train. I was surprised when they had her body in the morgue. I had a co worker jump in front of an express subway train at a local station, there was not a lot of her left to gather up. I didn't see it, but another co-worker did. 

 

When you fake it, there has to be a way to get out. And there were her blank eyes. Another good acting section, her eyes were so blank. She had a very routine life, but when it became different and she had no one to really turn to, she lost it all. It is funny to think back to how the other clones were dependent on Beth, right now she looks like the weakest of them all. 

[Not Beth]

I really didn't expect the entire season opener to be a flashback, but I loved all of the season one references.

 

Seeing how Beth really was, you can really tell how wrong Sarah-as-Beth played her. It's understandable considering all she had to go by were the home videos and how people around her reacted to her actions in season one. And maybe that's why everyone in season one was a bit like, "oh, maybe she's off the meds, she's a bit more chipper" or whatever.

 

Beth and Paul. Aaww, it really makes me sad to see them like that. Especially considering how things heat up between him and Sarah-as-Beth. Why's Dylan Bruce in the titles again? I know he guested in this episode, but if the rest of the series is set in present day, he won't be in it again unless he somehow faked his death (which I really hope not, because his goodbye to Sarah was so emotional).

 

No no no to Art and Beth. I didn't want them to go there, but they did. Last season when Art admitted to Sarah that he loved Beth, I just didn't think that was a good direction for his character. I always liked it when he was just a really good friend trying to help his rookie out. And now we know he's actually had sex with her. As others have mentioned above, Sarah-as-Beth is so lucky that Art never brought this up. Though her "forgetfulness" could always be blamed on all the meds she'd been on that evening.

 

All of the season one (some also appearing in season two) character cameos. Loved it. Janis! Raj! Diangelis and her morbid fascination with corpses (she really should have worked in forensics with Janis!). I really didn't like the return of Olivier and his tail, but I guess he had to be back since the series is looking into Neolution.

 

I was half expecting to see Delphine show up in the Leekie scene. :( I guess Evelyne Brochu is really not coming back. Also, I guess whoever the woman Leekie was speaking to will show up some more this season.

 

Those worm implants that they were removing. I guess those are an early version of whatever Dr. Nealon showed Delphine ( :(  aaww, Delphine) during his interrogation in the series 3 finale.

 

Loved the Felix cameo, albeit brief. And the Alison and Cosima cameos. Missed Mrs. S, though I guess she's never been someone to show up in every single episode, so I can understand that. And, not really missing Helena.

 

MK is an interesting new clone (or old clone, since she knew about everything before the Beth, Alison, Cosima and Sarah). And I'm glad we'll be seeing more of her.

 

When Beth was spying on the worm removal operation and then had to run for it, I knew she just had to bump into Maggie Chen. They couldn't do a flashback episode without bringing that in. They really did piece together everything we've heard about Beth over the past few seasons.

 

I think that's all I've got to say. :) I'm still happy that the UK is finally getting the show aired just one day after everyone else. Last year we had to wait until Sept/Oct for series 3, and it was horrible having to avoid spoilers for the show over that entire time. Yay Netflix.

 

Oh, so in regards to the timeline. Does anyone have an idea how long it's been since the events of Beth's death? I know in realtime for us, it's been four years, but in their world, it's not been anywhere near that long, right?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

EB, I didn't recognize the medical examiner. Who is/was she?

In the scene where Art and Beth were checking out the corpse, it sounded like Beth called the medical examiner Janice. Back at the station, right after Beth was told she had to submit a pee test, Art was looking at a file (and presumably had been discussing it with the captain before Beth entered the conference room). The name on the mug shot was Xan Yip (which is phonetically similar to Janice so I can see that being an American sounding alias). Art then said she was a fugitive foreign national so I thought that they had just figured out their medical examiner was not who they thought she was which could possibly cause problems with any cases that she worked on and hence why the captain was so cranky.

 

But it turns out I was totally wrong and Xan Yip is a completely different person! Sarah as Beth and Art discussing their cover story about Maggie Chen:

Sarah: I was by myself. I was canvassing witnesses on another case.

Art: Which case?

Sarah: The Ramsay thing. Sun Jewelry heist. I wasn't even looking for Yip.

Art: Yip who?

Sarah: Xan Yip, U.S. racketeering warrant. I'd seen her sheet that morning. Asian female, 41.

Art: And?

Sarah: And right here is where I thought I saw Yip.

Art: You thought?

Sarah: I did. I saw her. I called her name. I told her to freeze. She didn't. She ran. Disappeared down. You're making me nervous.

Art: Good. Now you know how it feels. When did you draw your weapon?

Sarah: I drew when I entered the courtyard here. That's when I drew my weapon. And then she disappeared down there. I crossed to there. And that's when I heard somebody behind me and I turned around. Poogh! And I fired twice. They were both wearing black. It wasn't her.

Art: Then what?

Sarah: Then I saw the phone in her hand and I called it in. And then you showed up.

Art: If they find out you called me before you called it in, Beth, they're going to start to dig. And if they dig, they find the pills and, if they find the pills, you may crack under questioning and tell them that I put the phone in the vic's hand to cover your tweaker ass.

Sarah: I wouldn't do that, Art. I got to carry what I did. Maggie Chen was in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's it. None of this ends up on you.

 

There is a slight discrepancy. In this episode, Art says Xan Yip is 46. In S1.E2, Beth/Sarah/Art's story was that Beth had seen Xan Yip's sheet the morning that she shot Maggie Chen and that Xan Yip was 41. I'm not sure if that was deliberate mistake but just thought I'd mention it in case it ends up being an important detail later.

[tennisgurl]

I really liked the premier episode, so glad this show (and Tats parade of accents) is back in my life!

 

I really liked seeing Beth, and getting to see a bunch of the old characters again was a really nice treat. I miss seeing the police gang, and even the body piercing brigade. Seeing more of Beth makes me sadder in retrospect about her death. She really was struggling.

 

Felix cameo! If he had just turned his head a little bit while he was being booked, just imagine how things would have changed!  

[Mabinogia]

I loved this premiere. It felt like a return to everything I loved about the show in the beginning. A focus on the mind fuck being a clone would do to your identity, with Beth breaking my heart with her "look at me, see me" pleas to both Paul and Art. And MK hiding behind masks, probably because she feels her face isn't really her own since it seems to belong to countless others as well. And it was so fun to see so many old, familiar faces. Felt like going home again.

 

I was worried, when it started with the mask in the woods stuff. But when I realized it was going to focus on Beth, OMG I was soooo excited. It is heartbreaking watching what led her to jump in front of that train but it also makes sense. I could see how going through all she's going through would make her want to just get off the rollercoaster that had become her life.

 

I am so happy that my beloved show is back.

[possibilities]

Was it ever stated exactly where Allison was getting the money to give to Beth and Cosima??? It seems like she had a lot of disposable income for a family of 4.

I thought it was from selling drugs.

[vesperholly]

Was it ever stated exactly where Allison was getting the money to give to Beth and Cosima??? It seems like she had a lot of disposable income for a family of 4. 

 

IIRC it was established a while back that Allison's parents are very wealthy. Allison didn't start selling drugs until later on, since we see her fumbling it a bit - though perhaps that's being retconned as well since she provided pills for Beth? On the other other hand, maybe that's just Ritalin or something Allison could easily get from a psychiatrist.

 

To follow S1E1's timeline, Katja needs to show up PDQ.

[snarktini]

My impression was Allison was buying the drugs for Beth, not selling to Beth -- Allison paid Ramon, her dealer, to deliver the pills to Beth with the pee, under the guise of a flower delivery. I don't think it's a retcon, making her a seller at this point. My recollection is Allison was simply well-off so she funded Clone Club. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by snarktini

[Desiree]

Yes, Allison was providing the "little helpers", which she herself also took. She shared them with Felix in the episode that Donnie tried the intervention with the priest. Ramon was her dealer, who she took the business over from when he went off to college. She herself told Sarah that money was the only thing she could contribute. Beth was the cop who investigated, Cosima was the scientist who was looking for answers in their DNA and Allison provided the capital to be able to pay off sources and what not. She never actually said where she got the money from, but later in season 3, we find out that her mother had a soap and candle store. Which really doesn't make a ton of money, it was a small niche store, however, I'd imagine the family has money and that was just a side thing to keep her mother occupied. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Desiree

[shapeshifter]

Wasn't part of Allison's motive to deal drugs ("Mother's little helpers") to get votes for her campaign to...I don't remember what?

[Desiree]

Wasn't part of Allison's motive to deal drugs ("Mother's little helpers") to get votes for her campaign to...I don't remember what?

Partially, for some local community / school something or other. Partially because Donnie lost his job and they needed the money if I remember correctly. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The part that made no sense to me was Cosima saying she needed Alison to pay her tuition. If you're a PhD student in science, you most likely have an NSF grant to cover your tuition and living expenses. But it's not like the school asked her for a check for $35K.

 

I can't believe they filmed that brief scene at Berkeley and I didn't get to politely stalk Tatiana at close range!

[natyxg]

So, I have mixed feelings about this episode. I thought the first half or so was kind of boring because they were trying so hard to do a bunch of throwbacks to season 1, i don't know. It did pick up much more towards the end.

 

I was never that interested in Beth, so I didn't need a whole episode of Beth. In fact, I wasn't looking forward to it too much because I feared Tatiana wasn't gonna be able to make her too much of an distinct clone, since she seemed like one of the lower key ones, certainly not as OTT as Helena or Allison, for example. But she really pulled it off. MK, too. I don't know how this woman does it. Above all, creating new clones continues to be Orphan Black's strongest suit.

 

The one thing I didn't like was Beth and Art having sex. I thought it was the one thing that imo didn't fit into what we saw in season one. That was a big deal and there was never any reference to it back then, not even subtext as far as I remember.

 

I thought we would follow Beth until she killed herself, and was surprised when we didn't. Are there gonna be more flashbacks through the season, leading up to that?

 

I hope they keep making the episodes available to everyone on the official site, btw.

[Knuckles]

I loved this opener...finally, we get to know Beth, who has been a presence in the entire series. And her suicide also makes complete sense...as does Art's willingness to work alongside Sarah, when she finally appears in his life. He and Beth's close partnership and even that one-night hookup, explains why he is so invested in helping Sarah. He too wants to know what really happened to Beth.

 

Loved seeing Cosima again, but totally missed my Helena. I realize she is not in play yet, but having Allison back, with her pal Ramon is always good. Felix, you have been so missed...so calm, so collected while being booked on prostitution and public urination charges...and looking fabulous, I might add.

And seeing old Leekie strut around knowing his future includes getting whacked by Donnie and buried in a garage...very satisfying.

 

As always, I need to watch the episode twice...they bury enough clues and references, that I miss some on a single viewing. 

Maslany rules...yet another distinct clone, so welcome MK.

[Haleth]

Was it ever stated exactly where Allison was getting the money to give to Beth and Cosima??? It seems like she had a lot of disposable income for a family of 4.

 

I don't recall what Donnie did for a living before losing his job, but I assumed he was making good money.  They were living pretty comfortably in a Faux York suburb.

[Bort]

I wasn't too crazy about this episode. I felt like it was backtracking and telling stuff we mostly knew already. Basically seemed to be a really long segue to introduce a new clone who looks to be the first non-already-self-aware clone to figure out her existence. I guess I got the purpose, but it was just way too much Beth, who never really interested me. Although, I can't say I hated seeing Paul again, in all his shirtless glory.

[Captanne]

I was never very interested in Beth, either.  Her death was the catalyst to set the story in motion -- I never felt the need to see her story in action.  (It would be like the producers of "Blue Velvet" deciding it was a great time to do an entire film about the owner of the ear.  We're told enough by reference.)

 

Unlike most, I don't really care too much about Paul, either, until he became more three dimensional toward the end of his life -- a sort of genuine hero.  (He died tied to a chair, right?  I don't remember now.)

 

I am happy to see more of tail-guy because I felt like the whole "body alteration" folks fell off the map and he was left unexplained.  

 

Also, any excuse for Max Headroom, er, Matt Frewer, is a good one.

 

ETA:  Weirdly, as convincing as Maslany is in all the other versions of Leda Clone, her "Beth" is the most awkward and I never really felt the actress owned the character.  I hope that's not because she is the most "true to the actress'" real personality.  LOL  How ironic would that be?  

 

I'm not referring to Beth's drug addition or other actorly affectations of plot -- I'm talking about the clone stereotypes.  The body language, Canadian accent (I originally typed "lack of accent"), and physical tics (frex, Helena and Allison are full of them), and more common urban lifestyle -- as opposed to uptight suburban housewife Allison, English accented biker-chick-on-the-run Sarah, Frizzed psychopath Helena, Academic Cornrowed Nerdly McFly, Cosima -- Beth seems to be the more ordinary, suit wearing urban, single professional woman.

 

It occurs to me that anyone upset by stereotypes is watching the wrong show.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Captanne

[Texasmom1970]

I am so glad this show is back. And I enjoyed the flashbacks just to see Dylan Bruce, yes I am wading around in the shallow end of the gene pool!

[ottoDbusdriver]

I am so glad this show is back. And I enjoyed the flashbacks just to see Dylan Bruce, yes I am wading around in the shallow end of the gene pool!

 

Agreed.  Really happy that Cloneclub is back.  With a new clone to boot.  I wonder where MK has been all this time since the S1 opener.

 

I enjoyed the flashback to Beth's life prior to killing herself -- filled in a lot of details especially with relationship with Art.  Obviously, Beth never told Cosima or Alison about MK, but I'm curious how Beth connected with MK in the first place.

 

I also wonder if MK was on Helena's hit list.  I've been trying to figure out MK's accent, sounds kind of Scandinavian.

[Christina]

I thought I read a question somewhere in this thread about why Allison was paying for Cosima's college. I don't see it now, but while watching the episode again, I noticed her saying that she had recently transferred for the clone club, and it needed taken care of ASAP. Her grants, jobs, etc. were probably for the previous school.

 

I did a rewatch because I didn't enjoy it that much the first time. I didn't like last season much, either. On second watch I enjoyed this episode more, and I hope it continues along this vein. The male clones last year were the downfall for me.

[Captanne]

I think I'm sort of over Maslany's amazing performance and, for me, the rest of the show just can't hold up.  No matter how much scifi stunt casting they do, the rest of the story just feels ill-designed.  It's like they can't quite get a grip on the story they are telling (or which one they are trying to tell.)