S32.E09: It's Psychological Warfare

[violet and green]

Khaleesi was none-too-happy about the falling-aparts of the Girl Power Alliance.  Her hatred (as much hatred as one can have at 9) for Scot and Cupcake is reaching an all-time high, and Tai is in her sights to be hated as well. 

 

Scot sits pouting about not being in on the plan

Scot looks like a gigantic baby.  Like a baby who smells bad but his diaper's clean, so he's just a big baby who naturally smells bad, sitting on a log and almost crying.  

 

Cupcake discusses psychological warfare (I almost spit out my drink laughing at this one, as first of all hiding shared property is not psychological warfare but rather unsportsmanlike conduct- and I firmly believe the only combat he's seen is in Call of Duty- and I also believe the only warfare he uses during bounty-hunting is going to the nearest seedy motel and showing a photo to the desk clerk)

You know when psychological warfare would make sense?  During a war. 

 

Tai sits with Cupcake and Scot while everyone hates them elsewhere

You know what, Tai?!  Don't tell them it's going to be "hard to watch" them starve the rest of the tribe.  Tell them to stop or you're going to leave their alliance and take your idol with you.  Their whole master plan involves your idol, so you're the boss of this group. 

 

Julia volunteers to go with the guys

Julia should have volunteered to go with the guys, make them lose the reward by messing up the ropes, then waited until she was alone with the guys after the challenge to tell them she might be willing to work with them and this was her way to talk to them in private without making everyone suspicious.  She's a dummy. 

 

Julia basically offers up her allegiance on a silver platter

Not super good at playing hard to get there, Julia.  These messes need you more than you need them, have some respect for yourself.

 

Aubry decides that Debbie is the biggest problem out there, Cydney agrees

Aubry thinks she's really smart, and Cydney doesn't like anyone who disagrees with Cydney.  Debbie is only a problem because she trusts Julia and Julia can't be trusted. So... instead of making the group Julia is going with weaker, they want to get rid of Debbie?   Not great, ladies.   

 

YES! Exactly! Khaleesi is my last remaining hope for the future of the human race. God bless Khaleesi! Keep' em coming, girl.

[backformore]

Lurch?  Bounty?   CUPCAKE?  

Help a poster out here.  I can barely remember the actual names of these people, I can't follow when they have nicknames too. 

[Lantern7]

"Lurch" is Scot. "Bounty" and "Cupcake" apply to Jason, I believe.

[ForeverAlone]

But what if the worst case scenario happens? A Final Two with Scot and Kyle. Probably not a complete impossibility, and as much as I would hate either winner, I would laugh my ass off if it happened. 

[violet and green]

"Lurch" is Scot. "Bounty" and "Cupcake" apply to Jason, I believe.

 

And Jason's real/first name is Kyle.

 

It's all too much, for such unpleasant lumps, I think.

[Lamima]

But what if the worst case scenario happens? A Final Two with Scot and Kyle. Probably not a complete impossibility, and as much as I would hate either winner, I would laugh my ass off if it happened. 

Yeah, I'd only watch the finale to see all the drama around that. I'd have to drink through it though.

[princelina]

I liked the episode, and I like the season.  I am able to watch and fully, fully hate Scot and Jason and am able to enjoy the season.  I don't know exactly why.  Survivor is one of my all time favourite shows, but I don't like every season.  I don't care for the Blood vs Water seasons.  I didn't care for the Collars season, but everyone except Jeff would agree on that. I do like this one, but I liked the last B/B/B season too.  Some people pointed out Debbie's fascination with Julia, even implying that Julia's beauty blinds Debbie to her potential untrustworthiness/a potential reality.  I think there is truth to that.  I think that's one reason the B/B/B stuff is fascinating.  (Not claiming that the show's ideals about beauty are objective - FAR from that.)

 

I love Cydney.  She is just so beautiful (so you can say that I am the Debbie to her Julia).  When they were talking to Julia early on in the episode, and Cydney narrowed her eyes upon Julia and the camerapeople kept focusing on it -- I loved it.   When Scot and Jason put on their rehearsed play about the Super Idols and Cydney rolled her eyes -- I loved it.   I cannot believe that those guys wrote a script for those fucking Tribal shenanigans.

I agree with you about loving Survivor, and to me even the worst season is better than none at all.  But I find that I am disliking this season more than any I can remember, because I really just don't like anyone involved.  I wonder if it's because I enjoyed last season too much? 

 

As far as these guys writing a script for TC - I think they are thinking of the "Three Amigos" TC and how that was fun for us viewers - sorry fugs, but you're not those guys and we don't like you.

 

As for women's alliances working, I'll say what I always say, which is I don't believe I've ever seen a men's alliance work in my life, on the rare occasion that they're ever even floated.  Ami's alliance in Vanuatu didn't fail because lol girlz gotta flirt winky face, but because they didn't keep their pecking order hidden enough and the bottom members flipped exactly as they should.  Also, you forgot the Black Widows, the original super-effective women's alliance, led by Parvati, another young woman who is frequently accused of basking in the men's admiration*

 

*lust, I mean

 

 

Now this is a substantial critique and actually I agree.  Probably it would be better to wait to flip.  But, although everyone seems convinced based on absolutely nothing that she is 100% IN WITH THE GUYS and WOULD NEVER VOTE A MAN OUT because WHO WOULD SHE STARE AT, TWISTING HER HAIR AND BITING HER LIPS, WITH NO MEN AROUND???, she actually in fact did not vote for Cydney with the guys, but did what the women wanted to do and voted Debbie.  Julia didn't "flip" yet, she didn't have to, thanks to Aubry's nutzo scheming.  So she didn't commit to anything, and there's still plenty of room to work; Michele especially is still her ally.  (The fact that she was floated as a target, that her closest ally Michele was willing to do it, indicates that she wasn't totally crazy to think she was on the bottom, I must say.)

 

To me, like her doppleganger Abi, Julia was not thinking in terms of "will they take me??" but "who will I take".  She doesn't have to "be taken" by Cupcake and the Benchwarmer, there are various things she can do.  Why is it that people think that if you've moved once, that's it, you're out of moves for the rest of the game?  She doesn't have to flip and then just do whatever the dudes say.  She can make her own decisions and figure out a way to get Tai out.

 

I don't think we've ever seen a "man's alliance" because they don't call them that - they just seem to happen.  But the so-called "women's alliances" never seem to work out, and I don't think it's because of the flirty wink wink/lust aspect, but just because someone always flips.  Why? - I don't know.  But the first time I posted was during Ami's season; it was on TWOP and I had people PMing me with angry messages calling me a loser bitch, which I chose to ignore, but it has made me watch these "women's alliances" over the years and they just don't seem to work (on a regular basis) because someone always flips.  Sometimes for male attention (it seems) and sometimes because the flipper thinks she will have a better chance with the guys.  IMO the reason Julia is an untrustworthy flipper is  because she ran to the guys and gave away the whole plan.  So whatever she did besides that doesn't negate the fact that she was more than a flipper, IMO.  And I wouldn't compare her to Abi for anything other than being small and blond.

[KimberStormer]

needschocolate, on 14 Apr 2016 - 4:12 PM, said:

Aargh! I hate it when I the bad guys win.  I had to soothe myself to sleep last night imagining that I was on this season.  When it came time for one of the majority to join with the minority for the challenge, I would join with the guys, and then "hurt" my back during the first part of the challenge and the guys would lose.  While the winners were eating their reward, I would apologize to the guys (while still hobbling around with a bad back) and explain that I joined their group because I wanted to ally with them, since I was on the bottom of the majority alliance. The idiots would trust me completely and tell me all about their idols and the superidol and their grand plan (hey, it is my fantasy, so this is what happens), then I would share this info with my real alliance and it would be sweeter than watching Edguardo go.    

 

The problem with this and similar 'throw the challenge' scenarios, as I see it, is that it wasn't winning the challenge which got people suspicious of Julia.  Aubry would just be sitting at camp saying "Julia. Has. To go!" with Chinese food in her mouth, that's the only difference.  If they were going to believe she was a double agent, they already would have believed it, even as a winner.  I mean, OK, she could do that to spite the guys (in rather cowardly fashion, not unlike Tai putting out the fire at night to avoid the blame) and that would be satisfying to us the audience, but it would mean nothing gamewise, if not be worse for her--they might easily catch on to the "bad back" ploy and then everybody--Aubry, Cydney, Cupcake and the Benchwarmer--all don't trust you or want to work with you.

 

iMonrey, on 14 Apr 2016 - 4:42 PM, said:

The strategy is likely to backfire on her. Scot and Jason will play the "My daughter has autism" and "My mother lives in a nursing home" cards and there won't be a dry eye in the house, like when Jeremy cried about his family last season. Meanwhile the women will be bitter about Julia stabbing them in the back and reason that at least Scot and Jeremy were up front with their gameplay.

 

Julia's better bet is to take two women perceived as (at least) weak as she is and make the case that she made bigger moves. She'd have probably done well sitting next to Debbie and Aubrey or Michelle.

 

I can't agree with this.  Those bozos burned any and all chance of getting votes this episode.  And what moves, should Julia have gone to the end with Debbie and Michele, could Julia have said she made?  It would be one of those painful final tribals where one person is like "well I had to survive in the woods!" and the jury's like "we all survived in the woods" and the person is like "yeah but I had to...um...overcome...hunger...and bug bites..."  If you want to make a case that you made moves (not the only way to win, of course), you've got to make some moves.

 

I do agree the women may well be bitter and it would be a tough FTC on her, but I still think she would win it.  Getting there is of course the difficulty.

[Dobian]

Tai showed his true colors, he just a little weasel sucking up to the bullies.  Okay, don't want him to win now.  Still kind of rooting for Julia, she's playing a good game.  So the way the super idol works, the right person still has to have it on them before the vote, they just don't have to use it if the vote doesn't necessitate it.  So the other side can still guess right and vote for someone who doesn't have the super idol.

[Gweilo]

So the way the super idol works, the right person still has to have it on them before the vote, they just don't have to use it if the vote doesn't necessitate it.  So the other side can still guess right and vote for someone who doesn't have the super idol.

 

I'm curious about how the super idol works and I'm hoping that someone smarter than me knows, or are we all just speculating.  As far as I remember from what we've seen on the show, the instructions along with the idol have said "2 regular idols can be combined to make a super-idol, which can be played after the votes are read."  But I'm confused about the timing of when idols can be transferred.

 

In my example, Tai and KyleJason have an idol.  Once the votes are cast but before they are read, either Tai or Kyle can play their idol as per a normal idol.  Or, they can give their idol to Scott, or to each other. 

 

Now if Kyle gives his idol to Tai before the votes are read, and the votes are all for Tai, then Tai can play the super idol, I get that.

 

But, after the votes are read, are any of the following scenarios possible?

All votes are for Tai - Kyle gives his idol to Tai, Tai plays superidol

All votes are for Kyle - vice versa

All votes are for Scott- Tai and Kyle give their idols to Scott

 

My brain starts to hurt when I think of possible strategies to get them out, but if the above scenarios are NOT allowed, then the girls can still vote out the boys right? Because either:

a) only 2 out of 3 people have indivudual idols - so you can vote out person 3

b) Or the superidol has been created before the vote, and you can vote for the 2 people who don't have it, because they can't be given it after the votes are read

 

(I'm not saying that a or b are easy, it's akin to witchcraft to figure out who is going to have the idol(s) but just that it is doable, if the girls are perceptive and lucky enough to guess right)

 

I'm terrible at strategy so this may not make sense, but I wonder if we know for sure about the 'handover timing' rules.  Has it been addressed directly on the show?

[himela]

And Julia had better not re-allign with those asshats!

Julia is right when she wants to take Jason and Scot to the end with her because nobody will vote for them. She plays the best game but she is not very discreet.

[thehepburn]

Yeah, watching Debbie's Ponderosa video and reading her exit interviews pushes me very much into the camp of "exit interviews aren't canon." In all her exit interviews, she said she knew she was being targeted, but in her Ponderosa immediately after being voted off, she said she was blindsided. She said that more than once. She had no idea that Aubry had turned on her until after the vote. Hell, she didn't even know that Neal had an idol, so I can't see how she would have known about the Super Idol. 

 

 

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2016/04/14/survivor-castaway-debbie-aubry-was-hyper-paranoid-and-neurotic/

 

Here's more of the Holmes interview with Debbie. Of interest is that she had planned to take Aubrey and Tai to the end, and she LOATHES Jason. Also, she claims Neal told them about the Super Idol before he left.

 

 

Neal has stated on twitter that he never told her about the idol. Considering that her time right after being voted out is recorded. i know who i am believing.

[cooksdelight]

I was half expecting one of these asses to get an advantage, hidden inside a fortune cookie, a la Dan Foley. Ugh. Glad it didn't happen.

Me too. And there could have been some type of clue/advantage in the food, but if no one found it we'll never know. Production hates it when their little clues are missed. Just like we never see people searching for idols all day, unless they find one.

I don't believe a word coming out of Debbie's mouth, regarding knowing she was a target or was it a blindside. The woman was fun to watch, and fun to follow her 50 different careers, but she doesn't know what truth is, in my opinion.

[Haleth]

But, after the votes are read, are any of the following scenarios possible?

All votes are for Tai - Kyle gives his idol to Tai, Tai plays superidol

All votes are for Kyle - vice versa

All votes are for Scott- Tai and Kyle give their idols to Scott

 

I know!  TPTB need to clarify the rules because if any of the above is possible it doesn't seem very fair.  What's the point of voting for any of the guys if it's all moot?  Of course one or the other could refuse to turn over his idol and give up his own safety net.  I know I'd be very reluctant to let go of an idol.

[Lamb18]

Haven't seen the episode yet, or read the comments here, because I was in the emergency room during Survivor, talking to the ER physician! (My doctor thought I was having a heart attack but I wasn't.) I told him I was missing Survivor and that there's an ER physician from Minnesota on the show. He was like, "Yeah, I heard, I think he works at Methodist." (Maybe I should have told the ambulance to take me to Methodist.) He was nice, did a good job, but was detached, but I didn't mind. ER must be like an assembly room and if the doctor didn't have some detachment, he'd be an emotional puddle on the floor by the time his shift was over.

[Lamima]

If Aubry can get to Tai. She can have him convince the fugly twins that he'd combine his idol with their's to use as super idol if one of them gets voted for. Then the girl group can all vote for Cupcake and then when he looks at Tai and says' use the super idol' Tai can say 'nah'. And if Cupcake actually hands him his idol like he did last time, then Tai will walk away with the super idol. Oh, please please please let this happen. I bet it doesn't though and I bet Aubry or Cydney goes home.

[AZChristian]

If I were on the jury and Lurch and Cupcake were my only choices for the million dollars, I'd write the name of my favorite charity on the ballot.  Let the producers sue me because I breached the contract by refusing to vote for one of those two.  Every true Survivor fan in the world would pay into a "GoFundMe" account to (1) pay my legal bills, and (2) give the leftover amount to charity.

 

Win / win.  And my integrity would remain intact because there is NO WAY I'd vote for either one of them.  Ever.

Edited April 15, 2016 by AZChristian

[Drogo]

I'm curious about how the super idol works and I'm hoping that someone smarter than me knows, or are we all just speculating.  As far as I remember from what we've seen on the show, the instructions along with the idol have said "2 regular idols can be combined to make a super-idol, which can be played after the votes are read."  But I'm confused about the timing of when idols can be transferred.

 

In my example, Tai and KyleJason have an idol.  Once the votes are cast but before they are read, either Tai or Kyle can play their idol as per a normal idol.  Or, they can give their idol to Scott, or to each other. 

 

Now if Kyle gives his idol to Tai before the votes are read, and the votes are all for Tai, then Tai can play the super idol, I get that.

 

But, after the votes are read, are any of the following scenarios possible?

All votes are for Tai - Kyle gives his idol to Tai, Tai plays superidol

All votes are for Kyle - vice versa

All votes are for Scott- Tai and Kyle give their idols to Scott

 

My brain starts to hurt when I think of possible strategies to get them out, but if the above scenarios are NOT allowed, then the girls can still vote out the boys right? Because either:

a) only 2 out of 3 people have indivudual idols - so you can vote out person 3

b) Or the superidol has been created before the vote, and you can vote for the 2 people who don't have it, because they can't be given it after the votes are read

 

(I'm not saying that a or b are easy, it's akin to witchcraft to figure out who is going to have the idol(s) but just that it is doable, if the girls are perceptive and lucky enough to guess right)

 

I'm terrible at strategy so this may not make sense, but I wonder if we know for sure about the 'handover timing' rules.  Has it been addressed directly on the show?

 

I believe the three guys can decide who's playing the idol after the votes are read.  Assuming the actual idol-holders stick to the plan, none of the guys are going home at that TC and one of the girls+Joe would be going home.  If everyone does what they've said they'll do (and integrity's lacking on that side) the Super Idol gives the guys full control over their collective safety. 

 

 D oesn't mean the girls shouldn't call their bluff and force them to use it, since right now their own are being eliminated anyway, and the guys still have both idols for next TC and next TC...  

 

Worst case scenario for the girls, they vote for a guy, the guys use the Super Idol, one of the girls+Joe goes home (equivalent of drawing rocks, really) but both idols and the Super Idol are out of play. 

 

Best case scenario for the girls, Tai/Cupcake may refuse to contribute his own idol when he sees Cupcake/Tai is voted out, and it will be too late for Cupcake/Tai's HII to be used on its own, so the TC will go exactly as the girls planned and possibly one of the idols will go home with its owner.

[laurakaye]

I have been carefully reading the posts regarding the super-idol, and I'm still not sure I understand the possible outcomes.  Now that Bounty handed over his idol to Tai, couldn't Tai just keep it - and since he now has two idols, can each be played as a regular idol, or does Tai now HAVE to use it as a super idol?  I am losing my love for Tai, but if he decides to keep both idols for himself and it results in Bounty/Lurch not making it anywhere near the final 3, then I will love him again.

 

Debbie and Joe...did either of them ever watch this show before coming on?  I fail to understand how either one of them can state things like, "I am NOT NOW NOR EVER voting for (fill in the blank)."  Don't they realize that they are not privy to every single conversation that happens on that beach?  At least hear out the person coming to you with another idea that's different than your own.  At this point I expect Joe to not vote along with any alliance, ever, for the rest of this game just because he gets one name into his head and fails to see that strategies and alliances can change on a dime.  I was curious as to what Debbie and Cydney were whispering to Joe at TC, because he nodded to both of them and seemed to understand what was going on.  But they clearly both gave him a different name to write down, right?

 

As hateful and awful as this season is, I will watch and hope that someone, somehow (TAI TAI TAI) can orchestrate the BotUT brigade going down in hideous tattooed flames.

 

Debbie chasing Nick around the Ponderosa house and following him everywhere with her eyes fills me with unmitigated glee.

 

Mark and Jim in the final two, with the million going to Mark and Jim getting Fan Favorite.

[hyukx3]

joe is not in an alliance if he doesn't vote with them. if i were a survivor, i would tell him he's not part of our alliance anymore, just to open his eyes on his current situation. coz he's not helping his alliance at all. he might as well be a free agent coz he plays like one.

[Haleth]

Who did Joe vote for?  I thought he went along with the Debbie vote.  No?

[hyukx3]

he voted for scott. debbie also. the rest of the girls voted for debbie.

[laurakaye]

he voted for scott. debbie also. the rest of the girls voted for debbie.

I wonder what Cydney was telling him to do when she was whispering to him, then.

[hyukx3]

either the girls told him and he wouldnt listen or they just kept him in the dark and vote without him. i think they just vote without him, god knows if he knew or not, coz aubrey said she needed julia's vote. debbie is making the alliance weak as well by spilling everything to julia. what did jeff said when the black doctor went out and when the nick went out? it's a game of subtlety.

 

that being said, they still should have voted for one of the boys. now its 4v4 and the boys have the super idol. bye bye girl alliance.

 

i think cydney would tell him to vote for debbie, otherwise it would be bad for relationships after the tribal. you want to include him in the voting bloc, the rest is his choice.

Edited April 15, 2016 by hyukx3

[needschocolate]

I have decided that if Russel and Dan Foley had children, they would be tattooed twins.  

 

The problem with this and similar 'throw the challenge' scenarios, as I see it, is that it wasn't winning the challenge which got people suspicious of Julia.  Aubry would just be sitting at camp saying "Julia. Has. To go!" with Chinese food in her mouth, that's the only difference.  If they were going to believe she was a double agent, they already would have believed it, even as a winner.  I mean, OK, she could do that to spite the guys (in rather cowardly fashion, not unlike Tai putting out the fire at night to avoid the blame) and that would be satisfying to us the audience, but it would mean nothing gamewise, if not be worse for her--they might easily catch on to the "bad back" ploy and then everybody--Aubry, Cydney, Cupcake and the Benchwarmer--all don't trust you or want to work with you.

 

I thought about all this but then remembered that my scenario was just a product of my imagination and, therefore, the women would all completely believe me when I say that my back is fine and here is the guys's plan, etc...

 

Worst case scenario for the girls, they vote for a guy, the guys use the Super Idol, one of the girls+Joe goes home (equivalent of drawing rocks, really) but both idols and the Super Idol are out of play. 

 

Best case scenario for the girls, Tai/Cupcake may refuse to contribute his own idol when he sees Cupcake/Tai is voted out, and it will be too late for Cupcake/Tai's HII to be used on its own, so the TC will go exactly as the girls planned and possibly one of the idols will go home with its owner.

 

The opportunity for the very best case scenario for the women+Joe (W+J) was this last tribal when they could have had 3 vote Jason, 3 vote Scot, and the 3 idiots vote Cydney.  Jason then uses the Superidol on himself and then there is a re-vote between Scot and Cydney with Scot going home and all idols are gone.  

 

I think the best W+J could do now is pull Tai over to their side, then split the votes 3 for Scot, 3 for Jason, 2 for Cydney.  If the guys think Tai is still one their side, they won't play any idols, and there is a re-vote between Scot and Jason, and Jason goes home with an idol in his pocket (perhaps with two idols in his pocket, but, more likely, Tai would be holding both idols and he would be stupid enough to give one or both to Scot after tribal).  If the guys don't think Tai is on there side, then Jason plays his idol and Scot goes home (after a revote).

 

If Tai is still aligned tightly enough to the other two jerks to let them use his idol to make a superidol, then W+J's only hope is to throw all their votes to one of the jerks, he plays the super idol, one of the W+J goes home (most likely Cydney) and next time it is 4 to 3 with no idols left in the game.  

 

All these different scenarios makes me realize just how unpredictable this season is - normally I would think this is a very good thing, but Scot and Jason are so unpleasant that I would much prefer a predictable season, but only if it means those to get voted off ASAP.  

[fishcakes]

Now that Bounty handed over his idol to Tai, couldn't Tai just keep it - and since he now has two idols, can each be played as a regular idol, or does Tai now HAVE to use it as a super idol? 

 

In one of Debbie's interviews, she said that Tai can keep it (and I would guess use it either way, but I don't know). But another poster said that Jason said on twitter that Tai gave it back after TC (damn it, Tai!), so it's all moot.

 

Haven't seen the episode yet, or read the comments here, because I was in the emergency room during Survivor, talking to the ER physician! (My doctor thought I was having a heart attack but I wasn't.) I told him I was missing Survivor and that there's an ER physician from Minnesota on the show. He was like, "Yeah, I heard, I think he works at Methodist." (Maybe I should have told the ambulance to take me to Methodist.)

 

I'm glad you're okay! And only a little sorry that you didn't get to meet Peter and tell us if he talked to you about his handsomeness.

[NutMeg]

This season is a challenge in a way, because on the one hand we have people playing - well or not (and by the way kudos to the poster who saw Aubry as a kind of Wile E. Coyote), but on the other hand the result of these combined strategies is that we're left with people we would have liked gone way before yesterday.

 

Not sure how Julia's game will play out in the end - here again, dichotomy, because while she positioned herself in an interesting way, gamewise, I don't like that that prevented the ouster of one of the despicable ones.

 

I kind of like the convo of Cydney and Aubry. Cydney has one of the most (if not the only) entertaining persona here, and in such an understated way that I want to see more, way more of her. And Aubry is agonizing at each step and double-guessing everything. And the two of them together? Totally unexpected, but totally fun.

 

Michele, Julia, in contrast, look very bland, but they might be playing a better game. Who knows? It's very difficult to get excited about players we haven't seen enough of, especially when they eliminate people I like and keep people I don't (which in both cases we've seen almost too much of), even if I cannot fault their game play. Arrgh.   

 

And still, I like this season, without having any horse in the race. It keeps surprising me, different / random people make interesting moves, TC is often a total wtf and it's fun. But watching obnoxious players gets my blood pressure up, I'm sure. Then again, I remind myself that HvV had a great outcome... 

[Drogo]

The opportunity for the very best case scenario for the women+Joe (W+J) was this last tribal when they could have had 3 vote Jason, 3 vote Scot, and the 3 idiots vote Cydney.  Jason then uses the Superidol on himself and then there is a re-vote between Scot and Cydney with Scot going home and all idols are gone.  

 

Since Julia wasn't planning to vote with them against one of the guys (and many of the girls knew it) that wouldn't have been a good idea this week.  Julia would have probably thrown her vote in with the guys and taken Cydney out.

[peachmangosteen]

I have been carefully reading the posts regarding the super-idol, and I'm still not sure I understand the possible outcomes.  Now that Bounty handed over his idol to Tai, couldn't Tai just keep it ...

 

Jason tweeted that Tai gave him back the idol as soon as they got back to camp.

 

I wonder what Cydney was telling him to do when she was whispering to him, then.

 

I wonder about this, too. If she was telling him anything other than 'vote Debbie' then that might be a bad thing because he will feel deceived. But I sorta doubt she said that since they all knew he wouldn't do it. I guess it's possible she just told him that they (meaning the women) would be voting for Debbie. I can't remember, did Joe seem surprised when Debbie was booted?

 

Julia is right when she wants to take Jason and Scot to the end with her because nobody will vote for them. She plays the best game but she is not very discreet.

 

Yea this. Julia's strategy is sound, but she is just terrible at playing both sides. Aubrey and Cydney immediately knew exactly what she was doing.

 

All these different scenarios makes me realize just how unpredictable this season is - normally I would think this is a very good thing, but Scot and Jason are so unpleasant that I would much prefer a predictable season, but only if it means those to get voted off ASAP.  

 

This is so true. I should find this season amazing. It has so many things I normally enjoy: unpredictableness, stupid people, people actually playing the game, drama, women working together. But Scot/Jason are so odious and they've taken Tai down with them now so it makes it very hard to enjoy. Sure, Scot/Jason will eventually get their comeuppance and that will be nice, but it's gonna be hard to wait all the way until the finale for that.

Edited April 15, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[blackwing]

I have been carefully reading the posts regarding the super-idol, and I'm still not sure I understand the possible outcomes.  Now that Bounty handed over his idol to Tai, couldn't Tai just keep it - and since he now has two idols, can each be played as a regular idol, or does Tai now HAVE to use it as a super idol?  I am losing my love for Tai, but if he decides to keep both idols for himself and it results in Bounty/Lurch not making it anywhere near the final 3, then I will love him again.

I would highly doubt that Kyle would let Tai keep it.  That was just for show.  Right after TC I bet Kyle asked Tai for his idol back.  It would be so awesome if Tai said "nope, you gave it to me, so now it's mine, and under Survivor rules you can't steal it back".  Then Tai could go and try to make an alliance with someone else.  He'd be at least safe until the final time to use the super idol, and with several rounds of TC before that, maybe he could forge new bonds. 

 

If Aubry can get to Tai. She can have him convince the fugly twins that he'd combine his idol with their's to use as super idol if one of them gets voted for. Then the girl group can all vote for Cupcake and then when he looks at Tai and says' use the super idol' Tai can say 'nah'. And if Cupcake actually hands him his idol like he did last time, then Tai will walk away with the super idol. Oh, please please please let this happen. I bet it doesn't though and I bet Aubry or Cydney goes home.

I'm not convinced the women understand how the super idol works.  I know at the TC before this one, Tai said something about it, but I can't remember if he discussed how it worked.  I didn't think he did?  And nobody seemed to believe him at the time.  None of the women saw the paper that Kyle and Tai and Neal got that explained how it worked.    The women really screwed up last time.  I really don't think Julia would have gone over to the guys.  All it would have taken would have been for Michelle to tell Julia that she would be a clear #4.  They plus Joe should have split their votes 3 for Scott, 3 for Tai.  The guys would have voted for Cydney.  They wouldn't play their idols before the vote.  They'd wait til after.  Then they can only save one of them.  Probably Scott.  Then wouldn't there be a revote between Tai and Cydney?  Scott and Kyle would vote Cyd and everyone else votes Tai.

[hyukx3]

if the girls were gonna target the guys, the votes wont go 3-3-3 for 2 guys 1 girl(cydney) respectively becoz julia is taking the boys to the end. nobody would vote for the boys in the finale = julia wins millionz. if the girls were gonna target the boys, the votes will be 2-3-4, 4 votes going to cydney, bye bye cydney.

Edited April 15, 2016 by hyukx3

[Dobian]

I know!  TPTB need to clarify the rules because if any of the above is possible it doesn't seem very fair.  What's the point of voting for any of the guys if it's all moot?  Of course one or the other could refuse to turn over his idol and give up his own safety net.  I know I'd be very reluctant to let go of an idol.

It seemed to me that they had to designate the super idol to someone before the votes were read (in this case Tai).  But he didn't have to play it until after the votes were read.

[blackwing]

It seemed to me that they had to designate the super idol to someone before the votes were read (in this case Tai).  But he didn't have to play it until after the votes were read.

I'm not so sure... I think the instructions just said that it can be played after the votes are read.  After the votes are read, Tai could have played the idol for anyone he wanted.

[Dobian]

I'm not so sure... I think the instructions just said that it can be played after the votes are read.  After the votes are read, Tai could have played the idol for anyone he wanted.

They need to clarify that because it looked like that's what happened before the vote, they designated Tai would get to use the super idol, much like someone declaring before a vote they are giving a regular idol to someone.  I forget if Jeff instructed them that way or not.

[hyukx3]

that super idol can save all 3 boys since only one can be voted out and you wait until the votes are read. the girls may not be entirely privy to this, after tai spilling some super idol secrets at previous tribal. even if the girls knew, they still would need that idol to be used, even at the cost of losing one, as long as they have the numbers. unfortunately, aubrey and cydney felt that debbie needs to go before the boys, which is a mistake now that they are even numbers.

 

julia seems to be the only one in a good position, but tai can change things if he switch. tai's only hope of winning is to switch. if they tell him this, it's game on.

[iMonrey]

 

Julia is right when she wants to take Jason and Scot to the end with her because nobody will vote for them.

 

Never underestimate the bitterness of the jury. Just because we've been shown the footage of Scot and Jason being asshats doesn't mean nobody will vote for them. One thing jury members can never seem to get over is "You lied to me/you stabbed me in the back." Jason and Scot can both rightly claim they were upfront about their gameplay and never lied to anyone. If Julia is seen as a turncoat who stabbed her women's alliance in the back it may just be enough to give the win to Jason or Scot. The idea that nobody would ever, ever vote for them is far-fetched based on the history of this game when you consider how butt-hurt most of the jury end up being. Some jury members may end up being more disgusted with Julia and rationalize a vote for Jason based on his daughter's needs. 

 

Don't count it out.

Edited April 15, 2016 by iMonrey

[ForeverAlone]

I don't think that the super idol can ONLY save the person who is holding it. Because if that was the case, the boys hand Tai the super idol and the women proceed to vote Scot or Kyle out. So I tend to think that the super idol has to be combined before the votes are read, but it can be played for anyone. That is what makes it so dangerous and hard to counteract. It makes the women much less likely to vote for any of the men, because any of the three could be saved by it and one of their stronger alliance members will get sent home in the process. And that is exactly what we saw this week as the women didn't even have to be cajoled to weaken their numbers by voting out one of their own. It was Aubry's go to plan after Julia won immunity to vote out one of her closest allies. The men didn't even have to do anything to exploit cracks in that alliance. I agree with the notion that the best bet would be to defuse the super idol by coaxing Tai over to their side, but unless they are offering him guaranteed final three, I can't imagine why he would flip when he is currently third in his alliance. He might find some of their tactics unpleasant, but he too goes along with them. It's the same rationale that caused Julia to start to flip over to the men. I guess, WHY would Tai want to move over to the women, when he is aligned with two jerks who could likely only win this game if it was just the two of them in a Final Two, AND they have an idol that can form a super idol that can protect any of them? MAYBE, if one of the women finds an idol and can offer it as a super idol to Tai (along with a guaranteed final three), but still. He is in a pretty good spot right now, strategically speaking, even if I find his alliance partners' behavior to be detestable. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by ForeverAlone

[ProfCrash]

OK, so an interesting episode.

 

I have been quiet this season but I am really enjoying it. I like the characters, I like the location, I have enjoyed the challenges. I hate that there have been two evacs which screws up the game but overall, it has been a good season for me.

 

I don't like how Scott and Jason are playing but I prefer their stupid game play which alienates them from everyone and sets them up as goats vs the personal attack bullshit that we have seen in the past. They are idiots and their stupid decisions will bite them in the butt. I think Tai will be fine because I think it is clear that he is not really on board with the idiocy. He is stuck in a crappy place. His only alliance option at this time is with two idiots.

 

I am fine with Deb going home. I think she is probably pretty darn annoying and I could see wanting her to leave. I would have preferred Scott or Jason. I am more then a bit baffled that Deb went home and no one forced the idols into play. It makes not sense to me. Pretty awful game play there.

[ForeverAlone]

I think Debbie went home, because the women were so spooked by the power of the super idol, that they would rather control who from their alliance went home, rather than leaving it to the men. Sure, the super idol would have been flushed if they had forced the vote, but Cydney would have been going home instead, and Cydney could probably guess that she would be the target of that vote. And since the women were so irked with Debbie, they would rather cut one of their alliance partners loose, than let one of their stronger players go, even if it does weaken their numbers and leave two idols in play. 

[hyukx3]

i also had the thought that the girls + joe's feelings might get hurt if julia backstabs them and wont give her the millions. becoz the girls voted one of their own out, she gets to keep her act as one of the girls for now. but still, i dont think the girls will give the boys the millions over julia for potentially backstabbing them becoz of the boys' "character". like debbie said, the boys showed their true characters. michelle said she wouldnt stand for it in real life. i think there's genuine dislike for the boys from the girl alliance.

 

when you betray your alliance, they wont give u the millionz, fair enough, right? but when the other options are people with character traits that do not agree with you, i dont feel that should trump over someone that betrayed you. that's how i feel anyway. i dont really know how the jury will vote when the time comes.

[meep.meep]

I think that Debbie went home because she acted like she was in charge, and Aubrey, Cydney, and Julia, each got a little threatened by that.  They are at the stage in the game where you have to start making moves to show that you are a winner.  Debbie laid out a voting strategy without consulting anyone else.  So they chopped her off at the knees.

 

I think there is a lot of disconnect between what recent votees (Debbie and Nick) are saying in recent interviews, vs. what you see in the confessional after the vote.  They've had an exceptionally long time to brood over what happened and rationalize it internally.  So that's what's coming out.

 

And if Tai gave the idol back to Jason, he's stupider than I thought.

[laurakaye]

 

And if Tai gave the idol back to Jason, he's stupider than I thought.

I can't figure out why on earth Tai didn't keep it.  What recourse could Bounty/Lurch have against Tai if he kept it?  I guess they could've killed his chicken...and now that I think it through, that's probably exactly what they would've done. 

[ForeverAlone]

I know there is a lot of talk/hope about Tai being some secret strategic genius, but I honestly have not seen it. He seems to be fairly straight forward, and he is either naive or simply unwilling to be cutthroat. 

[hyukx3]

it's not that debbie was acting in charge, more that she was spilling voting secrets to julia. still, it was illogical to vote debbie out. in the end, aubrey had to count on julia, who she doesnt trust to vote debbie out becoz joe wouldnt cooperate. what if julia doesnt vote along with them? if she suspect that julia really is a snake, how can she count on her vote and still rationalize that the boys will still use their hidden idol?

Edited April 15, 2016 by hyukx3

[ForeverAlone]

I think Aubry felt she could trust Julia on this vote, because ultimately, the Debbie vote benefits both Julia as well as the men (so she could still tell the men she is on their side-which I think she is). Sure, the men wanted Cydney out, but instead the women made it easy for them by taking out Debbie and weakening their numbers of their own volition, and didn't even force the men to play their idol. Either way, this vote benefits them, so I can't see them holding it against Julia for voting with the women. 

[himela]

Ok i might have it wrong but I think the following is right: The girls & Joe vote 3 for Scot and 3 for Jason. The guys vote 3 for Cydney. We are not sure whether Julia will vote with the girls or the guys. Before the Debbie plan happened, I remember her saying "I have the option to vote out Cydney but I am not sure yet". So if Julia votes with the girls and Jason uses the super idol after the votes, there is a tie and Scot is out at the revote. Isn't this right?

Regarding whether the jury would vote for the two douchebags if they were in final three with Julia: Julia has played a good game. She was in a majority alliance until the swap. She got isolated for three days. After that, and while she was an easy boot, she survived. She knew when to align with the girls and she could see she was last in the girls' alliance so she realized she needed to become flexible and change strategy wanting to take two bad people with her in the FTC so that nobody votes for them. She won immunity when she needed it and managed to vote out a girl while still having good relations both with the girls and the guys. Her only flaw is her not being discreet about it. Other than that she has a good case in FTC in my opinion.

I wish Cydney manages to find a way out of this mess. I wanna see her win and/or play again with better people/players.

[Lamima]

Scot was voting Cydney

Jason was voting Cydney

Tai was voting Cydney

 

Joe was voting Scot

Debbie was voting Scot

Aubry was voting Scot

 

Michele was voting Jason

Cydney was voting Jason

 

But Julia was torn between Jason or Cydney and by her going to the douches and telling them of the split vote that said to me that she was voting Cydney.

 

I don't see Julia as a great player. If she didn't win the IC she would have been the one gone and I DOUBT the douches would have used any idol to save her. 

[LanceM]

Even if she lost immunity Julia wasn't going anywhere.  Debbie wasn't about to vote for her and I doubt Michele would  have either. And since I don't see Aubry trying to convince the guys to vote for her the target would have gone to someone else.

[henripootel]

In all her exit interviews, she said she knew she was being targeted, but in her Ponderosa immediately after being voted off, she said she was blindsided.

 

#Blindside!  Despite what you think you just saw, it was super-exciting and unexpected!  Seriously, could we use that hashtag if it wasn't?  Proof right there.

 

In truth, I didn't see that vote coming last night but that's more a function of editing than masterful gameplay.  I mean I'm fine with a editing a boring story into an interesting one but an edit isn't a 'blindside' since the joke's on us rather than on the player eliminated.  Nice of them to suggest phrases to use when discussing the episode, though.  

Edited April 15, 2016 by henripootel

[hyukx3]

there's 2 scenario, one where julia votes for cydney or for debbie. if she vote for debbie, 4 votes is enough and she gets to keep playing cool with the girls. the boys wont have to used the super idol. it's only for after the votes are read. if julia votes for cydney, still the votes go 2-3-4 for scott, debbie, and cydney respectively. the boys wont have to use the super idol in either scenario. you can be confident that joe will just vote for whoever he likes. and julia got the inside scoop on the girls switching their votes to debbie. julia must be confident the voting numbers are set, it's just her decision that's left.

 

i think they lost track mentally that it's a numbers game. if they felt they may have lost julia, voting debbie out means they lost two in their alliance whilst the boys gain one. and by not voting for the boys, they didnt flush out the idol. just a bad decision all around.