S02.E17: Wrath Of The Villains: Into The Woods

[formerlyfreedom]

In an attempt to clear his name, Gordon steals his case file and approaches Nygma for help. Meanwhile, Penguin discovers his step-family's role in his father's death, and awakens from his conditioning.

 

 

[Pyralis]

Ah Penguin, you can't go wrong with Shakespeare as revenge inspiration.

[Primetimer]

The Riddler's first caper spirals out of control, and Penguin tries to recapture his old joie de vivre.

Read the story

[Lantern7]

Jim. James. Buddy. You just got through an ordeal where you had to risk your life even more so than in your regular job. Why, why, WHY don't you check the peephole before answering the door?!? Seriously!

 

I feel as if the show was on the cancelation bubble, given how fast the plots are getting tied up. Totally expected "Jim Gordon: Fugitive" to last at least a few more weeks. But we have to get Ed to Dr. Strange, so that gets wrapped up. On the other hand, I'm happy that Oswald snapped, even if he had to kill an innocent dog to do it. I don't know how much more "Oswald Gets Abused By His Stepfamily" I could have taken. Points are given for the sinister revenge, but he loses a few for now drinking Whatshername's tears of unfathomable sadness.

 

Another disappointment: Bruce not screaming "I MAKE IT WAYNE!!!" when he threw out the money. Sucks to see him part from Selina, but the Waynes murder plot has to go beyond Matches Malone.

[Spartan Girl]

The Penguin's Greek revenge was fantastic, but did he have to kill the dog?! He could've tested the poison on the stepkids first! This show...

I don't buy Barbara's change of heart. She's up to something. And if not, I don't want original recipe dumb twat Barbara back either.

[nilyank]

 

Another disappointment: Bruce not screaming "I MAKE IT WAYNE!!!" when he through out the money. Sucks to see his part from Selina, but the Waynes murder plot has to go beyond Matches Malone.

 

Bruce was having the time of life living with Selina, observing crime and jumping across rooftops. I never saw Bruce smile so much as he did today. So of course, he had to give it up to keep Selina safe as he goes after his parents' killers.

 

I love how Jim's story crashed into Bruce's story and tied everything up in nice little bow.

[superjengirl]

It's like Season 1 all over, again. Everybody's back to their original roles except for Nygma. I'm sad to see the parting of Selena & Bruce though.

[HoodlumSheep]

I enjoyed this episode!

I screamed "NOooooo" when he poisoned the dog. Why must they always kill the dogs?

I thought it was quite the twist that he fed the evil step-mom her kids. I had thought it was going to be the dog.

Oswald went from Cinderella to Hannibal real fast.

Oh, Harvey, never change!

I especially liked the Ed-reveal/Jim scene. That was perfect.

Sad that Jim didn't call Lee and now Babs has shown up.

Tired of BatCat right now. Mainly because I'm tired of the never-ending "break-up/make-up" cycle they're in. Give it 2-3 episodes and they'll be friends again. Then in another 2-3 episodes (season 3, I guess) they'll break up again, etc. etc.

Still love Hugo and Peabody.

And next week is Galavan. :( urgh.

Edited April 12, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[MrsRafaelBarba]

So Oswald pulled a Titus Andronicus.

Fun Fact: James Frain appeared in the 1999 film adaptation.

Directed by Julie Taymor.

Edited April 12, 2016 by MrsRafaelBarba

[VCRTracking]

Holy shit Oswald pulled an Eric Cartman!

 

Bruce sewing up Selina's jacket was both sweet and a nice shoutout to Catwoman's costume in Batman Returns. Camren Bicondova's resemblance to Michelle Pfeiffer will never stop amazing.

 

Glad Nygma finally got caught.

 

I love that Alfred finally knows Selina is good and only wanted her away from Bruce to protect her from his investigations which would endanger her.

 

 I was hoping Lee would be Batgirl Barbara's mother but it looks like it might be crazy Barbara Keane.

Edited April 12, 2016 by VCRTracking

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Oswald's stuff got dark fast.  Killed a dog and then fed Melinda Clarke her own children!  Might have to start questioning Dr. Strange's "treatment" now, heh.

 

Thought it was going to be another round of Jim being an idiot, so I'm glad he actually figured out it was Nygma at the end, and tricked him into incriminating himself for both the cop and Miss Kringle.  Not sure what this means for Nygma.  I doubt he will stay in jail for too long, so maybe he somehow ends up being another one of Strange's experiments?

 

Bullock is the best as always.  On the other hand, found Barnes to be a bit two-faced over his claims that he was glad Jim was innocent.  Jim might have been more forgiven and all "You were just doing your job", but it felt more like Barnes really wanted it to be Jim, and wouldn't even consider other possibilities.

 

Barbara is already out!  Oh, that should be fun for everyone.  Except Jim.  At least he didn't call Leslie yet.  But I can just see him either sleeping with Barbara again or she does something crazy like roofie him, and the future Batgirl comes from Barbara.

 

Bummed that Bruce and Selina's little adventures are already done.

[Biggie B]

Sad that Jim didn't call Lee

 

He did. She answered, "Thompkins," but Jim said nothing and as he was sitting there holding his phone, Barbara knocked on the door. So he did call, even though nothing came of it at that moment.

 

I'm glad Oswald is back to his old self. His new-found happiness and bond with his long lost father was all too fleeting, and if he can't have that, then it's time to get back to business! I'm glad he killed all three of those terrible people. Very bummed about the dog, though, but it served its dramatic purpose.

 

I'm getting tired of Selena always assuming that Bruce thinks she's gutter trash. I think he's been nothing but deferential to her in many ways. He thanked her for mentoring him. She has such a chip on her shoulder - it's not Bruce's fault that he was born into a very wealthy and renowned family, and I think it's been clear that Bruce has never flaunted his wealth or social status for selfish reasons. He's been pretty straight forward about using the resources he has for a better purpose, not just screwing around. If Selena can't figure that out, that's her problem. I know she's young and for all her toughness, she's still got a lot of vulnerability, but she has the same knee jerk reaction any time Bruce does anything: "Oh, you think you're better than I am? You think I'm trash?" Enough already! He clearly respects Selena but she's too stubborn  - or something - to see it. I hope that changes in due course.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Biggie B

[darkestboy]

Really surprised that Nygma actually got caught and sent to Arkham. That was genuinely unexpected but it's an interesting development to see happen.

 

Gordon clearing his name I did expect and I did like that he worked with Bruce and Selina in order to get Nygma to reveal everything as well.

 

Not sure if Barbara is genuinely rehabilitated or not but I am intrigued by her being released into the general public. Hugo certainly has an idea of what he's doing though.

 

Oswald turning on Grace and her kids was pretty gruesome, even for this show.

 

Bruce and Selina had some great scenes but he made the right choice here, 8/10

[Dobian]

I didn't expect both the Gordon and Penguin plots to be wrapped up the same night.  Great to have Penguin back though.  I'm sure Nygma will end up in the care of Hugo, which will make for some fascinating scenes.  Hugo sure gets a dream list of patients from Gotham, doesn't he?  Now crazy Babs is back in Gordon's life.  This can't be good, hehe.  I will miss Bruce and Salina together, but we know their destinies lie on different paths.

[Jediknight]

Nygma and Gordon had 2 fantastic scenes. It's too bad that Cory Michael Smith will never get a chance to be this Riddler on the big screen, because his portrayal deserves that platform and recognition.


Robin Lord Taylor's portrayal of Penguin also deserves that recognition. Him going from sniveling and groveling to the "I'm going to kill both of you" look on his face, was awesome. And The Penguin has came out to play now, feeding Melinda Clarke's character her kids was sick, psychotic, and damn good television. I don't care if Cartman did it first.


Bullock continues to be awesome. We've got Bullock being Bullock, Penguin overcoming his conditioning, Nygma with Hugo Strange, and Gordon back on trying to solve the murder of the Waynes, oh yeah this is shaping up to be a fun final stretch. Hopefully we get Jerome in the final episodes to make it complete.

[HalcyonDays]

I feel as if the show was on the cancelation bubble, given how fast the plots are getting tied up.

 

Gotham's been renewed for season 3. Yeah!

 

Really surprised that Nygma actually got caught and sent to Arkham. That was genuinely unexpected but it's an interesting development to see happen.

 

Me too, but glad actually. Dr. Strange is going to mess up Nygma even more, if that's possible.

 

Oswald turning on Grace and her kids was pretty gruesome, even for this show.

 

I was rooting for him to do so, and glad he's back to being his evil self. But NOT THE DOG, Penguin. WHY THE DOG? Anyone but the dog....

 

Bullock continues to be awesome.

 

 

Donal Logue is the best. The more Harvey in screen, the better.

 

Bummed that Bruce and Selina's little adventures are already done.

 

Me too. The opening scene was made of win. Mamouz and Bicondova are amazing together. When they get older, they need to star in a movie or TV show together (the next Batman reboots, perhaps??)

[NutmegsDad]

The only part that I was a little "WTF" was Barnes and the GCPD taking down Nygma rather than Gordon. I know he said "It's over, Ed! We heard everything!" At first I thought Jim was wearing a wire, but that would mean Barnes would need to take his fingers out of his ears and listen to Jim's story, so I surmised Barnes tracked Jim and then overheard everything.

 

The Bat and the Cat are parted for now. This will end in heartbreak, but additional kudos to the two actors.

 

Penguin broke bad, and how.

 

Crazy Babs is back (while MB is on maternity leave?). Let's see what the writers can do.

 

Oh, and if Gallivan starts to sing, I'm going to lose it.

[Artsda]

I was really enjoying Gordon's jail/on the run scenes, so I'm kind of sad he's been exonerated already. Nygma and Gordon scenes were great. 

 

Penguin's back! Loved the Cinderella like theme of the evil step mother and step siblings while Oswald was the maid. 

 

Barbara's back!

 

This episode was great.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Artsda

[Kromm]

Cannibalism?

Er. Wow.

I'm getting tired of Selena always assuming that Bruce thinks she's gutter trash. I think he's been nothing but deferential to her in many ways. He thanked her for mentoring him. She has such a chip on her shoulder - it's not Bruce's fault that he was born into a very wealthy and renowned family, and I think it's been clear that Bruce has never flaunted his wealth or social status for selfish reasons. He's been pretty straight forward about using the resources he has for a better purpose, not just screwing around. If Selena can't figure that out, that's her problem. I know she's young and for all her toughness, she's still got a lot of vulnerability, but she has the same knee jerk reaction any time Bruce does anything: "Oh, you think you're better than I am? You think I'm trash?" Enough already! He clearly respects Selena but she's too stubborn  - or something - to see it. I hope that changes in due course.

As fast and loose as this show is with Batman "history" (what with most of his villains being a decade or more ahead of him), this really can't change or you can't ever have a bonifide Catwoman (vs. just a slightly naughty Cat-Girl).

[Gulftastic]

It's not messing with established Batman history, as this is an entirely new history. Call it Earth-TV or something.

 

Like most, it was killing the dog that upset me most from Penquin, not the cannibalism. Poor dog.

 

I'm sad we didn't see more of Baby Bat and Kitten's adventures in the city.

[Kathemy]

<Deleted, incorrect.>

Edited April 12, 2016 by Telepath

[Lantern7]

In regards to the dog . . . yeah, that bothered me as well. I try to reassure myself by figuring that the dog was an asshole as well, and that his going #2 on Oswald was cut for time.

[Kromm]

It's not messing with established Batman history, as this is an entirely new history. Call it Earth-TV or something.

I'm familiar with that line of logic.

 

My point stands even so. Unless they really want to change the core of what Catwoman is (admittedly possible--I'm just saying its unlikely) then there probably has to be a big enough disconnect with Bruce Wayne that a decade or so down the line she doesn't realize he and Batman are the same person. Now one version of the comic book continuity got Bruce and Selina married eventually (Earth-Two, where that universe's version of Huntress, Helena Wayne, was their daughter) but even there--although most of it happened "off panel", there was still an arc that Selina still had to become the bonifide full blown Catwoman, albeit one who never did anything worse than rob jewels, before later in her history she gave it up.

 

I suppose a take where Catwoman always knows who Batman is would be possible, but even there I suspect then that the reverse situation might exist instead--that Bruce doesn't know she's Catwoman.  Or if they both know who each other is, then they still have to be apart so there's the Cat and Mouse thing (an ironic thing to call it with a Bat and Cat, of course), where she taunts him, and he tries to stop/catch her but not... too hard. Whatever scenario plays out, I think she still has to be a notorious successful Jewel thief first rather than a street rat, and that seems to require she's apart from Bruce.

[Danielg342]

"Hi Jim!"

 

I don't care that I saw it a mile away...Barbara Kean was sure cute and creepy doing that, wasn't she?

 

Penguin's story was a major bore...I knew what was going to happen, so I felt it was just a waste of time until we got there. Poor dog though...couldn't Oswald have tested the poison on the maid instead?

 

(Though I suppose if he tried it on a human they could have ratted him out...so...dog it is I guess)

 

Boy though, once we did get to the climax of Penguin's story...wow. Talk about the ultimate payback- feeding the kids of your tormentor to your tormentor! What a great way for Oswald to say "I'm back!"

 

(What a waste of Melinda Clarke, though...her stuff was way too simple)

 

As for Jim Gordon's storyline- that was much better. I liked how this time we saw deductive Jim and how he actually put to use his detective skills for a change, leading Edward Nygma into a trap. That takedown was brilliant and well crafted. Takes a lot to play a guy like Nygma but boy did he fall for it hook line and sinker. Loved Selina at the station too- she was very game in this con, pulling out her "brat routine" to great effect. Nygma didn't stand a chance.

 

(Of course, why Nygma didn't erase the tape after realizing that Gordon connected the frame job to the tape is beyond me)

 

Speaking of Selina...disappointed she left Bruce Wayne in a huff, but it was for her own good. I thought maybe Bruce should have told her why he couldn't go back with her but he likely knew if he told her that Selina would eventually want to help out. I'm predicting somewhere down the line, though, that Selina is going to get involved- she almost always does.

 

Probably the only disappointment tonight- other than Penguin's story- was that Hugo Strange was one-note tonight, but BD Wong still tried and Strange didn't have much to do. So I'll let it go.

 

The Bullock Meter

 

8- The Bulldog is back, my friends. Lots of energy tonight from Donal Logue, and Bullock went over and above for Jim, not just as his partner but as his friend too. I liked how feisty he got with Barnes, and I liked how Jim told Barnes to take it easy on him. Best part was his sex scene with Ginny- Bullock sure likes them big, doesn't he? I can also tell Logue had quite a bit of fun shooting that one, with drunk Bullock getting slapped around by the fiery Ginny. It sure felt like "comic book sex", didn't it? It was great, though, all of it.

 

Episode Grade- B+. What keeps this from an "A" is the rote Penguin storyline. Otherwise, everything was just wonderful.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Danielg342

[Spartan Girl]

If Batgirl winds up a rape baby or if Barbara winds up as her mother at all, I'm done with this show.

[Perfect Xero]

Alfred is such an ass when it comes to Bruce. First he hauls off and hits a teenage girl because he thinks that she's a bad influence, and then in this episode has the gall to say that Gordon should have kept Bruce from meeting with Matches, when Alfred is the one who helped him down that path in the first place.

 

I think they blew through Jim Gordon-Fugitive too fast, much like they did with Jim Gordon-Beat Cop and Jim Gordon-Arkham Guard. Like they're afraid to step out of the established formula for more than an episode or two. I think they could have stretched this out for another episode or two easily, they could have ended this episode with him collapsing at Selina's and then had him hiding out with them for a little bit.

 

Speaking of, I did enjoy the little scene where Bruce offers to help Gordon with his plan, and Gordon says that he needs someone who everyone will believe would betray him and they all turn and look at Selina.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Perfect Xero

[Snookums]

I screamed "NOooooo" when he poisoned the dog. Why must they always kill the dogs?

 

 

And such a good doggie! Penguin, you are dead to me. 

 

I am glad Penguin is back and watching Julie Taymor Shakespeare adaptations for inspiration, but lay off Montenegro, already, God!

 

I do like the contrast between Penguin and Ed's brands of crazy, shown in this episode. Penguin can be servile and take a lot of shit but when he snaps he lunges like a rabid honey badger, without mercy and enjoying every minute of it. Ed is strongest in the planning department, naturally, and feeling five steps ahead of everyone, but when he's cornered he completely falls apart. Too bad they couldn't keep on being roomies, they probably would end up running Gotham in like a week if they combined their strengths.

 

I get where Selena's coming from; she sees Bruce not going back with her as a slap in face, and for good reason; since she obviously doesn't/can't know about the whole supercomputer bit and that Bruce is trying to keep her safe, she sees her interactions with him--getting him a loaded gun, teaching him the ropes of street life, feeding him, housing him, not kicking his dumb ass off the building when he tosses away hard-stolen money like it's nothing--as nothing but a rich brat playing at what is her real, total life. 

 

This isn't some game for her, it's survival. She's watched dozens of kids just like her and girls barely older then her be murdered or sold as sex toys/rape victims, and here comes this guy who treats it like a lark that he can quit any time. (Not saying that this is how Bruce actually sees Selena, of course; but his obsessions and thinking of everything as a training exercise isn't really a whole lot better.) Alfred's saying that Selena deserves protection is a bit rich--from everything but a closed fist punch, Alfie?

 

I reeeeeeeaaaallly hope they find something to do with Barbara--they've wasted a fine actress in this role over and over after several strong reboots to the character that just trail off. And it better not be slip a mickey in Jim's drink and assault him/get preggers. I am NOT okay with that.

 

 

[Danielg342]

What would be a worse way to produce Batgirl? Jim being roofied or (more likely) Barbara taking advantage of his loneliness?

[Traveller519]

I'm in an interesting predicament. I find myself enjoying each of the episodes as they've been happening since the mid-season break. The characters are well written with motivations, the show is as beautiful as ever, and there's always lots of good tension in the episode. However, when the episode ends, I'm amazed at the break-neck pace of the plot and wish some things had been flushed out faster.

 

It's pretty stark when you compare it to the awesome slow burn that was the Galavan storyline. Yes we were getting a bit sick of Galavan, but that's because the show built him up as someone to hate. We saw how he was playing everyone and his true motivations.

[Danielg342]

Mileage will vary on this one, but my thing with Galavan was that I never felt like he "earned" anything- I never saw him face a credible challenge and actually have to work to beat said challenge. Sure he had enemies, but he defeated them rather easily.

Furthermore, Galavan never had an identifiable flaw. Sure, Nygma played his plan to perfection as well, but with Nygma we saw that he had become overconfident and had things to hide, and those flaws were vital in his downfall. What flaw did Galavan have? Arguably he was only defeated because Silver betrayed him, not because Gordon exploited a weak spot.

So yeah...I get the show wanted me to hate him, but they left out the parts that would have made him entertaining. So I found him more annoying than anything else.

[HoodlumSheep]

I couldn't stand Galavan. He came off as so cheesy and cartoonish. I still don't really know if that was completely on purpose or not, but it just didn't work me. He was a cartoon villain with cartoon motives. And he killed Jerome, so I'll never forgive him for that either.

I prefer Hugo Strange.

Edited April 13, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[blackwing]

Happy that they resolved the Nygma framing storyling.  That was dragging on for too long.

 

Glad that Oswald killed Melinda Clarke and those two bratty stepsiblings.  I'm kind of amazed she made him the cook/servant.  Knowing his past, shouldn't she have been afraid he was going to poison the food?

[Chaos Theory]

Happy that they resolved the Nygma framing storyling. That was dragging on for too long.

That lasted three episodes. It was hardly long, I actually wouldn't have minding if Jim hadn't solved it so quickly. It all happened way to suddenly considering how smart Nygma is supposed to be but then you can say he is the kind of smart that gets in his own way. Still a three part episode is hardly long.

I know I am probably in the minority but I prefer Barbara (especially crazy Barbara) to Lee. Lee is boring. Barbara is at least entertaining. Plus I never saw any chemistry at all between Lee and Jim and for better or worse Jim and Barbara have had....uh crazy chemistry.

[mtlchick]

As dark as it is, I loved Ed's apartment.  Practical with a bit of whimsy to it.  

 

 

 

What would be a worse way to produce Batgirl? Jim being roofied or (more likely) Barbara taking advantage of his loneliness?

 

After landing on a few articles on often that happened in some of the comics, I really hope not.  

 

RIP, doggie.  Once a villain needs to kill one just to see if the poison would work, they go wayyyy down in my book. 

[Danielg342]

After landing on a few articles on often that happened in some of the comics, I really hope not.

 

How often which happened? Both incidents?

[mtlchick]

How often which happened? Both incidents?

 

I'll rephrase that: characters in comics overall (not Gordon or Barbara) that have been drugged and taken advantage of for any reason. (That probably still doesn't make sense but it's been a very long week of hospital visits for me.) 

[Danielg342]

I'll rephrase that: characters in comics overall (not Gordon or Barbara) that have been drugged and taken advantage of for any reason. (That probably still doesn't make sense but it's been a very long week of hospital visits for me.) 

 

Sorry to hear that. :( Hope everything resolves well soon.

 

I understand what you mean about Jim getting drugged- I'm not sure I'd like that either. I'm just not sure that if Barbara didn't drug Jim but manipulated him in some other way to produce Batgirl this scenario would be all that much better. A coerced baby is still a coerced baby.

[Kathemy]

What would be a worse way to produce Batgirl? Jim being roofied or (more likely) Barbara taking advantage of his loneliness?

Worse and worse. Anything works, really. "Worse" for the character of Barbara would be Jim getting raped, clearly.

Furthermore, Galavan never had an identifiable flaw. Sure, Nygma played his plan to perfection as well, but with Nygma we saw that he had become overconfident and had things to hide, and those flaws were vital in his downfall. What flaw did Galavan have? Arguably he was only defeated because Silver betrayed him, not because Gordon exploited a weak spot.

When push comes to shove, Theo’s love, what ultimately destroys him, is Theo. He’s a sociopath of the highest order, completely incapable of any genuine affection towards anyone but himself. His tendency not to view other people as real human beings is also what ultimately leads him to underestimate others and to err when it comes to understanding their motivations. This error is what finally makes Tabitha turn on him. It’s also what pushes Jim over the edge to kill him.

 

This is Theo's flaw.

[jww]

Besides the poor dog I thought the most shocking scene was the best stately Wayne Manor could managed was a 1980s Mr Coffee coffee maker.

[Kathemy]

... but that's glorious. :-)

[Delphi]

I understand what you mean about Jim getting drugged- I'm not sure I'd like that either. I'm just not sure that if Barbara didn't drug Jim but manipulated him in some other way to produce Batgirl this scenario would be all that much better. A coerced baby is still a coerced baby.

If they ever get around to conception, I think the only think logical to do would to be have Barbara birth crazy James Jr. And than have Jim adopt Babs. That way it's easy to explain why James is insane in the first place and we don't have to worry about Babs being a psychotic.

[Danielg342]

When push comes to shove, Theo’s love, what ultimately destroys him, is Theo. He’s a sociopath of the highest order, completely incapable of any genuine affection towards anyone but himself. His tendency not to view other people as real human beings is also what ultimately leads him to underestimate others and to err when it comes to understanding their motivations. This error is what finally makes Tabitha turn on him. It’s also what pushes Jim over the edge to kill him.

This is Theo's flaw.

If that was Theo's flaw, it really didn't affect him all that much. All of his minions did their job and never once wavered in their loyalty (Tabitha whining "when am I going to do something?" doesn't count). He had a game plan for every one of his foes and they worked each time. Everything he did worked to perfection, without any real kind of a hitch.

The only time Galavan actually failed was when Bruce tricked Silver to help him break free. Perhaps you could argue that Galavan overestimated Silver's loyalty to him and underestimated Bruce's smarts, but one incident isn't an indicator of a character flaw- it's at best a mistake and at worst pure luck. Plus, Silver was pretty loyal to Galavan until Bruce played with her head, so that points more to Silver than to Galavan.

I would agree that self-centeredness would appear to be Galavan's flaw, but, again, it never seemed to affect him. This wasn't like the Falcone storyline, where you actually saw his minions display their actual disdain for Falcone, with Falcone, like Galavan, being oblivious to it.

Furthermore, in Falcone's storyline, he- repeatedly- underestimated Oswald, yet we saw that Oswald was more than capable to overcome him. No one ever did that with Galavan until the writer needed them to in 2.11. Until his demise, Galavan left his foes frustrated (the real reason why Jim punched him) and his minions always did what they were told, with a smile on their face.

A flaw isn't a flaw unless it impacts the story. Not once- until the writers deemed it necessary- did Galavan's flaw impact his story. He just kept racking up victory after victory and there was nothing anyone could do.

[Kathemy]

If that was Theo's flaw, it really didn't affect him all that much.

...

Theo died because he misjudged and underestimated Tabitha and Jim. If that's not "affecting him", I don't know what is.

 

And Bruce didn't "trick Silver into breaking him free." The escape attempt was orchestrated. The only thing Silver actually did was cry "Stop! Please!" Thus exposing that Bruce'd gotten to her.

[Danielg342]

...

Theo died because he misjudged and underestimated Tabitha and Jim. If that's not "affecting him", I don't know what is.

 

And Bruce didn't "trick Silver into breaking him free." The escape attempt was orchestrated. The only thing Silver actually did was cry "Stop! Please!" Thus exposing that Bruce'd gotten to her.

 

Mileage will have to vary, methinks.

[Kathemy]

Mileage will have to vary, methinks.

Fair enough. For me, Theo's flaws were apparent early on. His arrogance and disdain for other people and "the mob" were evident in his cartoonish overacting in public and extended to those closest to him, gradually making them hate him. His failure to erect a more believable facade was what put Jim on his trail. I think the main problem for me with Galavan was his motives didn't always make much sense. Really, why antagonize Jim, why free Barbara? Clearly it was just a pretty poorly-thought-out way to give the main protagonist a "personal" interest in it all, and for me that fell flat.

[jhlipton]

I don't care if Cartman did it first.

 

Shakespeare did it first and the Greeks did it firster.

[greyhorse]

Was surprised at how quickly the Nygma framing got resolved but happy to move on.  

 

Looks like Cat and Bruce are going to be apart for a while.  I really think the young actress that plays Selina looks like a very young Michelle Pfeiffer, which would be appropriate.

 

A bit confused at why Jim doesn't want to get back with Lee.  Is it because he knows he's flawed?  When Bullock was suggesting that he run and find Lee, Gordon said he needed to clear his name so they didn't have to live as fugitives.  Then after his name is cleared, he is reluctant to take the phone number and instead is just interested in solving the Wayne case?  Hmm.  Not sure if we're going to be seeing Lee back, especially since it seems like Barbara is back to cause some craziness.

[Camera One]

I'm starting to feel like this show goes in circles.  I'm not looking forward to another round of Jim vs. Barbara... it's been how many times now?  As said above, everything is reset again... Jim is exonerated (though the truth about Galavan is still out there), Bruce is back at Wayne Manor (back to the computer plot, where another pathetic clue probably awaits), Selina is mad at Bruce again, and Penguin is evil again (though good riddance to that evil stepmother).  

 

Ed getting arrested just made me groan.  Another person in Arkham.  More manipulation by the crazy doctor.  Another release.  Same old same old.  

 

This episode had some great scenes, such as the stuff with Jim/Alfred/Bruce, Jim/Ed and of course Bullock.  But no one ever learns anything on this show.  And now Jim's back to solving the Wayne murders, eh?  Suuuuuuuuuure.  

Edited April 19, 2016 by Camera One

[TobinAlbers]

Bruce's little smile when he said 'I saved enough for burger's!' running after a pissed Selena was great. It was nice to see Bruce's sense of humor.

Ms. Peabody's side eye at Barbara's confession of remorse was EPIC. She's usually doubtful about all of Hugo's experiments but this time she was especially 'Girl, please.'

[John Potts]

Jim Gordon's employment record with the GCPD gets still more complex (and IRL? Even if you're innocent, breaking out of jail is still illegal, particularly as Jim assaulted a police officer in this episode). Then again, given the death rate, they pretty much have to be hiring anyone who walks through the door, so maybe not THAT unusual. I was slightly disappointed that Jim was found innocent so quickly - even if he realised that Ed was behind his framing, I would have liked another episode of him having to prove it to Captain Barnes.

Although I do like the portrayal of Dr Strange, even for Gotham it seems unlikely that he could just go "This person is fine now - he goes free!" Surely there'd be some check on his power? Particularly when he's now released two convicted murderers.
 

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Kromm Cat and Mouse thing (an ironic thing to call it with a Bat and Cat, of course)

 

 

Well if you use the German, "Bat" is "Fleidermaus" (= "Flying Mouse") so the couple works in that language... I like their relationship, which is probably the truest to their (future) relationship as Bruce/Selina and Bat/Cat. A bit with Selina in Bruce tossing away the cash, only assuming he kept some of it, exactly how much cash does Selina need? I don't figure she's looking to make any big purchases, she's just looking for enough to get by on. Though I did like the way Bruce tried to shelter her from the (possible) consequences of his investigation, even if Selina won't understand.

 

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HoodlumSheep Oh, Harvey, never change!

 

Love the fact he's consistently a chubby chaser! Even if here it was with ulterior motives, presumably last time it was purely... recreational.