S01.E09: Left Behind

[scarynikki12]

Ray (Brandon Routh), Sara (Caity Lotz) and Kendra (Ciara Renée) are shocked after they watch the Waverider fly off without them, leaving them stranded in the ‘50s. After waiting months for their teammates to come back, the three realize they must move on with their lives. Ray and Kendra bond as a couple but Sara decides to return to the League of Assassins and Ra's al Ghul (guest star Matt Nable)

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzUIBNqRnnE

[nerdyduck]

I love the League of Assassins but Ra's al Ghil just disappoints.

LOVE the Chronos reveal! I thought it might have been Rory when they kept mentioning he took Snart for a reason.

[Lantern7]

Good episode. Nice that the writers are open to forcing characters through long periods of time . . . two years for Sara, Ray and Kendra, an eternity for Mick. And a round of applause to those who figured Mick would be Chronos. That's "Chronos" with an "H," BTW.

 

Anybody else liking Ra's al Guhl this time around? Vandal Savage makes him look awesome by comparison. I know the Arrow version pales to other counterparts, but I liked him here. And we get the door left open for Talia -- one of Batman's fiercest femme fatales -- coming back down the road. Maybe when Savage is killed for good, Rip can take Ra's to 2016 Star City to meet his successor.

 

Speaking of dudes with one hand . . . damn, Cold can't do things the easy way, can he? I was getting ready for him to have to fire his cold gun with the other hand, but the Waverider has regenerating tech. Of course it does. We got to hear Rory Freakin' Williams say "regenerate." That's nerd baiting, isn't it?

 

I'm okay with Kendra and Ray being a couple. I still consider Ray to be a prize-winning schmuck, but it's nice to see Hawkgirl have her own destiny for once. And I'm willing to bet Ray would get over 1960 once he got online.

 

Commercial . .. . wait, so Jax is played by a Brit? Damn, who isn't these days?

[Jediknight]

Talia exists in this universe!  That is fantastic.

 

So now we know why Ra's wasn't that fond of Sara, and thought she'd break Nyssa's heart.  She left the League once, so he was afraid she'd do it again.

 

When Snart was taken, I knew ti was Mick that was Chronos.  I liked that the team didn't kill him, and are trying to reform him.  He'll wind up being a big damn hero now.

[Sakura12]

Sara owned being part of the League of assassins again. I know it's sad for her but I just loved how in charge she looked. So Sara sent Nyssa to rescue her.  And Ra's knew who she was in Nyssa brought her to him. Ra's also seemed much nicer in 1960. He still doesn't have the presence that Ra's al Ghul should.. Did Sara also name Nyssa?

 

Sara and Mick have a lot in common, I kind of hope she kind of helps him come back along with Leonard. 

 

Too much Ray and Kendra. I don't mind them together but I don't want to see that much of it. I'd rather have seen more of Sara and the League. The Talia al Ghul thing was just an Easter egg, unless she shows up as an adult. 

[HighwayFlower]

Ehh. The League story left so many holes... Like would Nyssa have rescued her if she hadn't sent her too? Why would Ras let her back in? Weird he would never have told her her knew her before...

Just too messy for me!

[johntfs]

 

Sara owned being part of the League of assassins again. I know it's sad for her but I just loved how in charge she looked. So Sara sent Nyssa to rescue her.  And Ra's knew who she was in Nyssa brought her to him. Ra's also seemed much nicer in 1960. He still doesn't have the presence that Ra's al Ghul should.. Did Sara also name Nyssa?

 

I always felt that Ra's was a person who tried to be as kind and decent as his position allowed him to be.  I was kind of waiting for someone to namedrop Vandal Savage in front of Ra's, causing him to immediately release them with a comment "Him?  We've been trying to kill that fucker for the last 3000 years or so.  What say we compare notes?"

[nksarmi]

I enjoy Ray and Kendra and she might have given me feels with that "I get to choose who I fall in love with stuff."

 

Sara. League.  Oh my Legends - how did you take the plotline I hated the absolute most from Arrow and my second least favorite character from Arrow and make it all ok here?  Is it that Sara makes everything better?  Or are these writers just better at this because they aren't trying to pretzel these characters into a skitzo cookie for plot?

 

Anyway...I'm almost scared to say that I liked this Ra's.  And ok, so he's dismissive of Nyssa's heartbreak over Sara dying in the future because he knows at some point Sara will rise again (I mean surely he put together that her bloodlust that she needed herbs and mediation for came from the Pit once he knows she's from the future, right?).  I'm going to just fanwhack that by the time he's led to believe Oliver is his prophesized successor that the Pit has made him a little nuts.  Looks like he started out kind of ok.

 

And well damn, isn't Snart a badass.  I'm glad he got his hand back.  Betcha Malcolm wishes he knew Rip right about now. 

 

Mick is Kronus and Rip wants to deprogram him - oh fun.  Of course, he wants to deprogram him and hope to get him back on their side so he gets to learn all sorts of crap about the Time Masters.  Let's not mistake Rip for being altruistic.  But still, oh fun!

 

I just all around love this show.

[Sakura12]

Ehh. The League story left so many holes... Like would Nyssa have rescued her if she hadn't sent her too? Why would Ras let her back in? Weird he would never have told her her knew her before...

Just too messy for me!

 

That was the point. It was because of time traveling Sara that island Sara was rescued by Nyssa. Ra's did know her, he knew she was a time traveler. She's a good fighter and assassin, why would he not take her in? That's how time travel works in tv and movies. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Sakura12

[nksarmi]

That was the point. It was because of time traveling Sara that island Sara was rescued by Nyssa. Ra's did know her, he knew she was a time traveler. She's a good fighter and assassin, why would he not take her in? That's how time travel works in tv and movies. 

 

And did you SEE her bedroom?  He also clearly liked her.  I don't think Ra's goes around releasing people willy nilly.  He did it for Sara twice.

[bettername2come]

I really liked the reveal of Chronos as Mick. It was one of those things that I never saw coming, and I feel like an idiot for not anticipating it. Wentworth Miller did a great job with Snart's emotions. I think in all the things I've seen him in over the years, I have never seen him look more shocked than when Mick took off the mask. I love their dynamic. Even after Mick threatened to kill his sister multiple times, Snart still said told the team not to kill Mick in Nanda Parbat. Not sure how I feel about members of the team being in the past as long as they were. They're going to screw stuff up worse than Barry Allen.

[scarynikki12]

It wouldn't be a time travel show without someone losing a hand.  Too bad Snart's was shattered and can't become a handy spare clone.  And I definitely chuckled hearing Darvill say 'regenerate'.  The Nerd is strong with this show. 

 

I thought it was Harry Potter week in the Arrowverse but I didn't notice any references tonight.  Maybe they forgot to clue in the LOT people?

 

Kendra and Ray continue to make me consider shipping them.  I'm still on the fence, as this network loves to reel me in only to drop the other shoe, but I'm inching that much closer. 

 

I'm glad they aren't going to give up on Mick this time around.  He might turn out to be a lost cause but if there's even the slightest chance that he could follow Sara's path, then they and he need to find out. 

 

Talia!  Oh kitten, I want to hug you.  I don't want her on Arrow I want her to recur on this show.  I want to see her all grown up and being a bigger badass than her little sister.  I want to see her interacting with Sara and forging her own path like she always does.  I just want to see her again.

 

Sara remains the biggest badass.  Interesting that they actually called her the White Canary.  I wonder if they'll start doing the hero names more or if that was a one off to snap her out of her League mentality.  I also agree that Ra's was pretty cool in this episode and I wouldn't mind seeing him again if the team can swing it. 

 

They're going to screw stuff up worse than Barry Allen.

 

I feel confident saying that NO ONE can screw stuff worse than Barry Allen.  At least our team doesn't have Dementors following them.

[dkb]

The wait for a new episode seemed like 2 years. I liked it, especially the beginning with Sara, Kendra and Ray living together at the apartment. 

 

It was fun seeing Sara with the League as I've never watched an episode of Arrow before. 

 

Also is the first time we saw a "bedroom" on the WaveRider?

[redfish]

Whoa, this whole time Chronos was Heatwave this whole time? Since the pilot? That blew my mind. Also nice to confirm that Snart didn't kill him.

 

So this point in time was for Sara to make sure she was found by the League. I guess that's suppose to explain they happen to find her.

 

Can't say enough that Snart is badass.

 

ETA. I guess Ra's different attitude in the future was that he believed Sara used him/Nyssa's relationship to save herself in the future and doesn't believe she cared for Nyssa at all.

Edited April 1, 2016 by redfish

[tarotx]

I loved this episode. I don't care about timey whimey when I had fun and was super entertained. 

 

Sara in the League was awesome. I do wish we got more :p Ra's was good there though I think he was good on Arrow in the little doses we got early s3. He just doesn't haven't the presence to be a evil Villain. 

 

There was a little bit too much Ray and Kendra especially because I know Carter eventually will come back.

 

I really loved Snart in this episode and though I originally didn't see Mick being Chronos I read so many comic book reader comments who predicted it so I was pretty much expecting it but the reveal was well played. I'm looking forward to see how they play out.

 

Firestorm at least combined so yay for that right :p But I liked Stein and Jax tonight. It was fun Sara separating them and her stealing the ATOM suit.

[Sakura12]

Sara can also add being a ballerina ninja to her list of skill. 

 

[KirkB]

I wonder how much of Mick is still in there, because I keep thinking back to the pilot. If it was Mick the whole time then when Chronos attacked the Waverider originally he already knew he was going to fail because he saw himself and the others get away. And later on, when Chronos confronted Rip and Mick in the woods he again knew his attack wasn't going to work. It's only now than he has caught up with their timeline does he have a chance of succeeding at what he was sent there to do but he no longer has the element of surprise either. Poor Mick.

 

On a separate note, it's amazing how the lack of Vandal Savage makes this show so much better. Which is a problem, I think, considering he is the main antagonist. I am actually not looking forward to the next episode on some level since he's going to be there. Oh well. 

 

Sara back in the League was actually interesting to see. Matt Nable, to his credit, is trying his best but he is still badly miscast. Though at least the quiet intensity thing works a little better than the raving lunatic he is by the time Oliver comes along. Talia being there in 1960 raises some interesting questions. She looked to be what...twelve or so (I suck at judging ages) and Nyssa, when we first meet her appears in Arrow is maybe in her thirties? So Talia is about twenty years or so older than her sister? Meaning she'd be fifty or so now if she's still alive? I'm just trying to get this straight in my head, on the off chance one of the older women who has been on Arrow (or Flash) is going to turn out to be her, though I already know that isn't going to happen. I was a bit surprised they even got to use her name. And I did like the stable time loop aspect of Sara telling Ra's to send Nyssa to Lian Yu, not to mention naming Nyssa. Also puts a whole new spin on the apparent issues Ra's had with Sara, Nyssa, and Sara/Nyssa.

 

While I like Stein, I'm still not sure I get why Rip bothered to recruit Firestorm. He's mostly useless in a fight. I mean, sure, he throws fire and flies, so he has some maneuverability, but he isn't very impressive and apparently is so damn expensive they don't bother to use him much in the first place.

Edited April 1, 2016 by KirkB

[Actionmage]

Kendra: I like that she wants to make independent decisions where and when she can.  Having someone tell you that you have to love them, despite the eventual memories that confirm those feelings, is not cool and asshatty. Carter, if we meet him again, will hopefully calm down on that front.  I also loved that Kendra didn't flinch when it came to fighting Sara.  I like Kendra refinding herself on (mostly) her time table. I didn't like that she gave into treating Ray as less than adult, despite his finally making peace with the rescue not showing up in a ( sorry) timely manner.  I get that she was trying to minimize his hurt/ broken spirit/whatever, but Ray is not some fragile genius who'll crumble at the first setback. Hopefully, everyone will show a bit more faith in Ray going forward.

 

Ray: The totally fan-bait William Gates' dad thing was funny.  I loved that Ray did what he always does- builds something to help the situation when he can. That he kept working to perfect a beacon ( of hope, no less!) was very Ray. Although, not keeping the miniaturized suit on his person at all times seems dumb, as does (to a degree) cannibalizing the suit for parts.  I liked that Ray's video window was of a beach. Something sunny and fun, just like the man.  (I do agree that Ray was pretty petty, but he did stop and verbalized everytime he was asked what was bothering him. So, big step for our tech genius.)

 

Leonard: Man, talk about your past haunting you! Still, he was badass in trying to stop Mick and help the team. I am unsure how to feel about the regenerating. It makes sense, but would it be absolutely horrible if Snart had to have some prosthetic hand? It hasn't really slowed down Colson on Agents of SHIELD. Ray could make a hand with freeze ray fingers! *g* Still, the scene outside Mick's cell was great for everyone, but Jackson and Leonard's back and forth was a nice callback. There will be plenty of fallout from Snart's decision; I hope it will be meaty.

 

Sara: I was having a harder time than I would have thought understanding Sara tonight. Being a third wheel can suck hard. Being an out-of-time  reborn lesbian assassin hero has got to make it hard to find folks with similar likes. I get the lack of faith. I get not wanting to have a blossoming romance hit you in the face everyday until who-knows-when. I figured that it might have been Ra's mind whammy powers to a degree after we saw Sara back in Nanda Parbat.  I can even sort of get behind a type of jet-lag that affects time travelers.  I guess I wanted Sara to be a bit more trusting of the team that left them. Plan for the worst (the team is all dead and we are stuck in this time), hope for the best. Then again, I haven't been dropped somewhere almost sixty years in the past. I really like Sara and Kendra's friendship, so I hope we get to see them more. Plus? Their fight was good.

 

Jackson, Martin, Rip and Mick: Mick had a nice return; large and in charge and making Leonard pay for others' hurtful words. I am looking forward to seeing how the Reformation of Mick Rory pans out. I would like to see a bit less of  Jax telling Ray and Kendra to stop with the PDA/arguments/etc. He seems bitter or petty, even with a reasonable request. Martin could have had the lines with some supportive business from Jax and the point would have still been made.   I loved that Martin got such a delighted, warm greeting from Kendra. It implies that Martin has interacted with this team and it was welcome and enjoyed. I think that Martin is becoming the heart of the team. I could be mistaken, but I think I would be the most upset if badness befell  Martin than almost anyone else. ( Canary is a very close second.)    Rip will hopefully even out a little more. He is imperious, as befits a veteran of time travel, but also his plans don't tend to pan out anywhere close to his expectations. There is still a trust  disconnect between him and the rest; he expects them to follow without a doubt, yet he refuses to listen to them when they bring up reasonable doubts or alternative plans. I want to like Rip a bit more than I do currently, and I feel it is coming, but I'm not sure how far to trust these writers. Yet.

 

I genuinely enjoyed the episode; it had stuff that was wonderful and should have lasting repercussions, as much as a time-travel show can have repercussions.  I'm ready for next week!

[CabotCove]

Pretty dope show

 

Pretty sweet show

 

This week had been an A+ game in the DCTV superhero world.

[VCRTracking]

My hat's off to you, writers, that was a brilliant twist.

Edited April 1, 2016 by VCRTracking

[benteen]

Really good episode.  The reveal that Rory was Chronos was awesome and I didn't expect that.  It makes what had been a one-dimensional character into something far more interesting.

 

This was some fun, trippy sci-fi stuff.  The Legends in 1960 infiltrating the League with a futuristic bounty hunter thrown into the mix.  I love it!

[MarkHB]

I loved that they moved to Hub City; that's the homebase for The Question.  When Denny O'Neil started that book in the 80's (the character was originally from Charlton in the 60's), he decided that Hub City was a place where the entire system of government had fallen apart due to corruption and general collapse; his model for it was East St. Louis, Illinois.

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, Ray and Kendra spent two years playing house from 1958 to 1960 and never banged even once -- just sat around cooking, watching TV and playing board games.  Really ?

[Lokiberry]

So, Ray and Kendra spent two years playing house from 1958 to 1960 and never banged even once -- just sat around cooking, watching TV and playing board games.  Really ?

I'm pretty sure they banged plenty; that's why Kendra was surprised that Ray was moving back into his room by himself.

 

Also, we now know that the team has rooms. I'm sure this piece of information will be of great use to the many talented fanfic writers out there.

[wayne67]

I'm always confused by the Captain's urgency.

 

If he knows where Vandal is, why can't he spend a week or three training up the guys for an actual well thought out confrontation with Savage instead of yet another poorly thought out, random convoluted plan?

 

As for people being deprogrammed by Please please remember your previous code name... Always makes me eye roll hard. 

 

I like the characters for the most part. I hate the plot. 

[henripootel]

As for people being deprogrammed by Please please remember your previous code name... Always makes me eye roll hard.

I wonder if that's how they're gonna rehabilitate Mick, and if so, boo.  He's lived a few lifetimes in service to the Not-Time-Lords, he remembers his early ife but it was a long, long time ago.  Reminding him of his previous life and alliances would be like reminding you of the friends you had in grade school.  I mean it's nice to think about them but I'm not gonna give up my profession for the sake of pleasing folks I haven't seen in a long while, nor is reminding me that they used to call me 'Speedy' the key to my true self.  

I'm pretty sure they banged plenty; that's why Kendra was surprised that Ray was moving back into his room by himself.

I actually think we're supposed to believe that they didn't bang in that time.  And that Kendra came to realize how much Ray meant to her over those two bangless years and moved back in with him, this time with banging (and this was their first).  It seems odd that they'd go two years cohabiting thusly but Ray is pretty hugely boring, so ...

 

I think they're getting a bit better - they addressed the two years stranded thing head-on and they even had a bit of fun with it.  That said, they still found room to cram in some unlikely nonsense.  For instance, I have no problem believing that Mick has a time ship, I do have a problem with it having guard rails that can be broken without tools.  

 

Also, where was the super-sick bay when Kendra's son in 1975 got shot?  Kinda feel like having a deus-ex-machine like that lying around reduces the stakes to basically nothing.  I mean a machine that can regenerate a hand should be able to do most anything, right?  If anybody else gets killed or badly injured and they don't use the machine, I'm gonna have to ask why it's on the fritz.

 

I'm also not up on Arrow so somebody please explain why the League of Assassins is easier to break into than a Waffle House.  Did I see Jax take out one of these super-duper assassins with one punch?  Yes, yes I did.  The guard with the bow didn't alert anyone or shoot with his range weapon, he ran up so Jax could punch him.  Starting to see why the League of Assassins has existed forever and I've never heard of them.  

Edited April 1, 2016 by henripootel

[twoods]

This show is so much fun. With this and The Flash, and a side of Supergirl, I'm pretty happy with my tv viewing every week. I ignore the plausibility of time travel, and Mick being Chronus when he was fighting himself a few times, because the characters interact so well. I like that Jax isn't too bent out of shape about Ray and Kendra, but more annoyed about them being so dramatic. I like Kendra and Ray, but hope they don't take up much of the show.

[yellowfred]

I'm also not up on Arrow so somebody please explain why the League of Assassins is easier to break into than a Waffle House.  Did I see Jax take out one of these super-duper assassins with one punch?  Yes, yes I did.  The guard with the bow didn't alert anyone or shoot with his range weapon, he ran up so Jax could punch him.  Starting to see why the League of Assassins has existed forever and I've never heard of them.  

 

This is actually a central tenet of the League of Assassins in the Arrowverse.  Basically, they have, at any given time, a handful of the deadliest killers in the world mixed in with several dozen incompetent toddlers.  It makes dealing with them kind of like a game of Russian roulette.  

 

So, I really wish we'd gotten to see more of Sara's thought process this episode.  I think a part of the problem was how rushed the first half of the episode was, but it seems like her decision to rejoin (prejoin?) the League of Assassins could have used a bit more setup.  Like, I'm guessing that she was having trouble controlling her bloodlust and she thought that Ra's could help her, which would have taken exactly ten seconds of dialogue to establish.  Also, I guess they've been training together more than we've seen (and I probably shouldn't discount those two months of playing board games together), but I didn't really think that Sara and Kendra had gotten to the "I can save you from your time-travel-induced, quasi-brainwashing, because of our personal connection" level of friendship.  That being said, I thought the fight was really cool and I hope we get to see the two of them interacting more in the future.

 

Also, okay, their conception of time travel almost always gives me a headache, so I almost always choose to ignore it as much as I can, but this episode was definitely pushing it.  If the central premise of the show is that the future can be changed (is, in fact, constantly changing), then they really need to stop throwing in all these ways that their actions have already been written.  Like, the thing with the Chronos reveal (which I actually thought was really well done) means that they were already destined to leave Mick to die before they even really got started on their mission.  On top of that, if they're saying that the only reason Nyssa saved Sara on Lian Yu was because future!Sara told past!Ra's to send her (his whole, "why would I ever do that?" seemed to confirm that), then that means that everything that's happened to her since Nyssa found her has basically been predestined.  At the same time, though, when they've gone to see past versions of Stein and Snart, they've actually changed how things worked out (ultimately not that much, but still).  Then again, Sara got to name her own future girlfriend and Ray got to give some physicist's son a nickname that will cause him to spend most of his adult life saying "no, not that Bill Gates," so at least there's that.

Edited April 1, 2016 by yellowfred

[feverfew]

My show is back! After being severly disappointed in several of my shows this winter, it was wonderful to see Legends come back in full force - the quips, the banter, the (slightly) profound. Legends will never be a show in the vein of Mad Men/The Wire etc when it comes to critical renoun, but I so love a show that fully embraces both its silliness and its colorfulness. As I've said before this show just makes me happy. And sometimes that's just what I need: good characters, a fun storyline.

 

I'm fully onboard HMS tomAhawk (yeah, I'll see myself out) and I actually thought both Ray and Kendra had some fair points. Ray was the last to give up hope, but when he did, he went full on acceptance of his circumstances, with the same optimism he has shown for everything else. I like that about him. And I love that the writers allowed Kendra to verbalize how much it means to her to make her own choices when it comes to love - the reincarnated Romeo+Juliet schtick only works when you don't think too hard on it.

 

Sara was her usual badass, beautiful self, and Cold intrigues me more and more. I so hope Lisa will show up on the Waverider some point in the future. Rip... Despite some very valid criticism of his leadership I still can't help it: I love him to bits. *small voice* And my shipper heart went "Wooo!" with the whole Sleeping Beauty thing he and Sara had going on in Nanda Parbat.

 

I loved that they moved to Hub City; that's the homebase for The Question.  When Denny O'Neil started that book in the 80's (the character was originally from Charlton in the 60's), he decided that Hub City was a place where the entire system of government had fallen apart due to corruption and general collapse; his model for it was East St. Louis, Illinois.

 

Spoiler for casting in the final episode:

So we're almost completely sure we'll get The Question in the finale?

[Proteus]

Another great episode of this show. I really loved everything.

[johntfs]

 

Also, I guess they've been training together more than we've seen (and I probably shouldn't discount those two months of playing board games together), but I didn't really think that Sara and Kendra had gotten to the "I can save you from your time-travel-induced, quasi-brainwashing, because of our personal connection" level of friendship.  That being said, I thought the fight was really cool and I hope we get to see the two of them interacting more in the future.

 

I think it was more than Kendra was the only one with the skills/available powers who would able to survive combat with Sara long enough to get through to her.  Ray's a nice, earnest guy but Sara would have gutted him in two seconds if he'd be the one to fight.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Now here's the curious question -- Rip said that they couldn't go back to times where they had already been in because of universe-ending paradox or some such nonsense being created, but now that we know that Mick is Chronos isn't that exactly what Chronos has been doing all season.  Or did the Time Masters give Chronos a "Get out of paradox free" card ?

 

Why did Chronos steal the jump ship from the Waverider ?  Where was the ship he used to get to 1958 in order to attack the Waverider in the first place ?  Did they even address that ?

 

ETA:  To correct Chronos' name.

Edited April 2, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[FurryFury]

That was fun. I guess I finally see what the writers promised with a "16-episodes movie" when they were pitching the show.

 

One major problem was the lack of exploration of Sara's decision. I think it is possible to headcanon it (she was clearly depressed, devastated, even), and then maybe she tried to start something with the nurse from the previous episode but her bloodlust + life in the 50s and all the horrible sexism/homophobia/etc. got to her so she felt like she had no place to return to but Nanda Parbat. But all of that should have been on screen and shown to us, instead of the lame Kendra/Ray plot (although I actually didn't hate them, more like don't care).

 

Cronos being Mick was predictable, but cool. As for his rehabilitation... well, we'll see. Not sure how I feel about it yet.

 

Or did the Time Masters give Chronus a "Get out of paradox free" card ?

 

This is what I figured.

 

And my shipper heart went "Wooo!" with the whole Sleeping Beauty thing he and Sara had going on in Nanda Parbat.

 

Yeah I kinda liked that as well :)

Edited April 1, 2016 by FurryFury

[MarkHB]

Spoiler for casting in the final episode:

So we're almost completely sure we'll get The Question in the finale?

 

I thought of that as I reread the casting note... I'd completely be up for it (although I'm not sure that character would fit well, and I'm not at all sure he's aptly described as "beloved").

 

This is actually a central tenet of the League of Assassins in the Arrowverse.  Basically, they have, at any given time, a handful of the deadliest killers in the world mixed in with several dozen incompetent toddlers.  It makes dealing with them kind of like a game of Russian roulette. 

 

Practical application of the Law of Inverse Ninjas (one ninja is unstoppable, but the more there are the more they go down like butter)?

[darkestboy]

Really liked that episode. Nice return for the show.

 

Mick being Chronos I guessed but the show handled it well and it'll be interesting to see if he can be redeemed.

 

Snart loses a hand, then has it regenerated back. Surely that sort of tech would've been handy in earlier episodes, right?

 

I liked Ras more here than I did in Arrow's third season. I can see why Sara returned to the League of Assassins. I'm just glad that Kendra was able to get through to her though.

 

Nice to know that Talia exists in this universe. I wonder if we'll see an older version of the character at some point though.

 

Kendra and Ray had some good moments in this episode. I'm not a shipper but I don't mind them as a couple.

 

Rip, Stein and Jackson were fairly underused though, 8/10

[Primetimer]

Sara's past with the League of Assassins comes into sharp relief.

Read the story

[KirkB]

Practical application of the Law of Inverse Ninjas (one ninja is unstoppable, but the more there are the more they go down like butter)?

 

 

That makes a lot of sense, actually.  :)  In the early days back on Arrow Sara got concerned when one or two of them showed up and it usually took her and Oliver working together to stop him, but once Oliver decided to make regular visitations to Nanda Parbat itself (ie ninja central) they would go down like flies.

Edited April 1, 2016 by KirkB

[nksarmi]

One thing I was left wondering was if Mick was Kronus all along or if he was Kronus 2.0.  I say that because at one point, I thought they had killed Kronus and he popped up again, plus Cold did say "he's not Kronus."  Either way, I would find it interesting, but I'm not sure if it's been clarified yet on the show.

[Delphi]

Well Vic is beloved by me. But I'm also not sure how well he'd fit either.

I enjoyed the heck out of this even though I saw the Mick twist coming.

I watched with a friend and he basically said that he was getting serious Doctor Who vibes from the Arrowverse. (I also made him watch the supergirl crossover)

Enjoyed the league stuff. But I'm not sure if I think Sara ensured her own rescue by Nyssa or if Nyssa would have been on the island anyway and Sara was just making sure that she would still be rescued, if that makes sense.

[TV Anonymous]

How did Ray, Kendra and Sara afford that apartment the very first day and completely furnish it by the 10th day?

[Sakura12]

Did Ra's give Sara the magical flower bloodlust cure that Thea got? He said something about the herbs helping her with her urge to kill. 

 

How did Ray, Kendra and Sara afford that apartment the very first day and completely furnish it by the 10th day?

 

Sara knows how to steal cars, maybe she was selling them? 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Sakura12

[Delphi]

A bank heist also would have been very easy for Sara in 1958.

Speaking of years. Has the league not incorporated new styles of combat and training into their program in over 40 years? No wonder they suck.

[Trini]

This was a really good episode, even though I don't have many comments. Except that now that Mick is Chronos, he pretty much can't come back to Flash or Arrow (2016) since he has future knowledge, right? I figured if everything worked out and the team completed the mission, they'd all be able to go back to when/where they came from -- but not Mick with this newest development.

Time travel. Well, that's one way to fast track a couple.

Also, the show really, really needs to explain the deal with Savage and his immortality/regeneration.

[BkWurm1]

Talia exists in this universe!  That is fantastic.

 

So now we know why Ra's wasn't that fond of Sara, and thought she'd break Nyssa's heart.  She left the League once, so he was afraid she'd do it again.

 

When Snart was taken, I knew ti was Mick that was Chronos.  I liked that the team didn't kill him, and are trying to reform him.  He'll wind up being a big damn hero now.

 

I'm pretty sure Ra's issue was not that Sara would break Nyssa's heart but that Nyssa loved her in the first place since he saw love as a weakness.  Also he seemed really big on begetting heir through Nyssa the old fashioned way (brain wash an ex frat boy who had been running around as a vigilante and then force them to get married). 

Ehh. The League story left so many holes... Like would Nyssa have rescued her if she hadn't sent her too? Why would Ras let her back in? Weird he would never have told her her knew her before...

Just too messy for me!

 

It was explained in some show I once watched that when paradoxes such as that occur a new timeline starts.  The idea is that whatever reasons existed for Nyssa to be named Nyssa and to be in the North China Sea in order to rescue Sara the first time around did exist and happened but once Sara has now gone back and changed it, basically a new parallel reality has formed and then continues forward.  It's akin to the idea that there is a reality where every other choice that could be made, was made time and then those consequences play out in their own timeline.  Believe it or not, it makes things for me less confusing, lol.  

 

 

And did you SEE her bedroom?  He also clearly liked her.  I don't think Ra's goes around releasing people willy nilly.  He did it for Sara twice.

Technically he's only released her once and he did it surrounded and outgunned by her team.  (Ra's looked very impressed with Jax and Stein) Nyssa is the one that released her the fist (second) time.  Then when Sara retuned to the LoA (yep three times total) she got out of that club by dying. 

 

Sara can also add being a ballerina ninja to her list of skill. 

 

 

I swear they toss in a show stopper stunt in every one of her fights.  It was a cool move. 

Now here's the curious question -- Rip said that they couldn't go back to times where they had already been in because of universe-ending paradox or some such nonsense being created, but now that we know that Mick is Chronus isn't that exactly what Chronus has been doing all season.  Or did the Time Masters give Chronus a "Get out of paradox free" card ?

 

Why did Chronus steal the jump ship from the Waverider ?  Where was the ship he used to get to 1958 in order to attack the Waverider in the first place ?  Did they even address that ?

Didn't Chronos just jump from time to time with his watch?  The exception was when it was trying to shoot down the Waverider.  Otherwise he didn't have a ship. 

 

 

How did Ray, Kendra and Sara afford that apartment the very first day and completely furnish it by the 10th day?

Theft seems like the initial answer.  They probably drove to Hub City and sold the car for initial rent, food and furnishings (2nd hand) and then picked up jobs.

[BkWurm1]

Going to the subject of Ray and Kendra.  They weren't married really (though he was going to ask her to officially ) but I'm not convinced they weren't pretending they were married since couples just living together (for two years) wasn't normal or accepted and it sounded like they had a nice social life with their neighbors. That said, I'm positive that they were not just finally sleeping together when they returned to the ship. Even at ten weeks in Sara left saying that Kendra and Ray had each other and the two year anniversary wasn't about them being stuck, it was two years of them being together and there is no way that they were sleeping in separated beds for that time.  If they'd gotten separate apartment I could maybe believe it, but they lived together and spoke of the life they'd built together. They were all the way together except for him officially asking her to marry him (though again, I think based on her showing up at his classroom and everyone knowing her, she was seen as his wife.)

 

Which is why for most of the episode my heart was breaking for Ray.  He loved her.  He'd spent two years gathering up memories and inside jokes and suddenly he finds out that none of it meant anything to Kendra.  That she had been pretending to be happy.  Even seconds before he was going to propose she agreed that she was happy they'd been left behind, to have all of that ripped away was awful!! 

 

I totally understand why Kendra was happy to return to the mission but she was either clueless or heartless to Ray as he was desperately trying to find out if anything had been real.  Suddenly it seemed like not that she'd been allowed to pick who she fell in love with but that she'd been pretending to love him in order to fit in and play apart and that was just devastating to see Ray go through.  This guy is so unlucky in love.  Anna is killed.  Felicity was IMO a rebound for them both but at a moment when he told her he loved her (and believed it in that moment) she answered his I love you with ...Jello.  Cue Kendra who he's been in a relationship for two years, wants to marry her and finds out she was faking her feelings.  Ugh, it hurt.  Really hurt watching him go through that. 

 

Then at the end she acted all surprised and a bit hurt that he moved into a room by himself and I was happy for him but I just don't trust that her feelings are as deep as his.  I'm not mad at Kendra but this episode made me want to shield Ray from the inevitable pain that comes his way once/if Carter returns.  Or have him go save Anna.  Because I just don't believe Kendra is that into him.  :( 

 

 

***

Other topic I wanted to bring up.  Ra's al Guhl. 

 

Who that hell was that guy????  Even after her brainwashing started wearing off (and given how they trained Oliver I'd say there was some of that in there in addition to the ridiculous time drift thing) Sara still seemed really fond of him and the episode made him seem kind of noble and benevolent.  That was the mask he initially wore on Arrow but pretty soon we saw he was a superstitious, unfeeling, hypocrite out to butcher hundreds of thousands for a personal vendetta who treated his daughter with the same contempt he graciously bestowed on Nyssa's mother when he stole her and forced a child on her.  (And then gave her jewels to reward her) I can't reconcile the two creatures.  I think I will have to go with he went crazy in the next twenty years or so.   

 

About Talia.  We see her as a young child in 1960 and that would make her in her mid fifties now thus at least twenty years older than Nyssa but if she was sipping from the Lazarus Pits from a young age, perhaps she just didn't age as fast.  (While Nyssa refused to have anything to do with the LP)  So they could bring in Talia later as still younger than Nyssa.  Or at least it wouldn't surprise me. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by BkWurm1

[tennisgurl]

That was a really good episode. I have to say, I missed this show a lot the last few weeks. 

 

This show, as always, works because it spends time with its characters, and just lets them work off each other, in fun and interesting settings.

 

I kind of saw the Chronos thing coming, but it was still a good twist. I am glad that Mick is still around, even though I have no idea if he can be redeemed. He isn't a complete monster (even before Chronos) but "violent arson loving anarchist" was never going to be a person conducive to team work and world saving.

 

Ras was actually a lot more interesting here, as opposed to his turn on Arrow. He became way more of an asshole in the 50 or so years since we met him in the Arrow verse. Also, Talia! I wonder where she has been, as I assume she will be showing up again as an adult. Or is she dead? Old? Had a falling out with Dad?

 

Man, Snart is really go hard or go home. The hand thing was pretty brutal, especially for a professional thief, who presumably needs to have his hands to do his work. But when he joins the team, he full on commits.

 

I really like Ray, and it is the weirdest thing ever. I hated him on Arrow, and not for shipper reasons. I just thought he was an asshole who was eating up screen time for the actual characters. But now that they have toned down the creepy asshole parts of his personality, I find him quite endearing. Go figure.  

[Delphi]

On thesubject of Ra's, I really enjoyed how nonplussed he was about the whole situation. Like he was only mildly annoyed that these people invaded his home and then was basically "yes, you're from the future. Run along now, I'm bored. "

Eta: I agree that he was a mellow figure here that eventually goes craycray. In fact, comic speaking that tends to happen the more often you use the pit, you just low key go insane.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Delphi

[Sakura12]

I swear they toss in a show stopper stunt in every one of her fights.  It was a cool move. 

 

I think the camera crew loves that CL can do her own fight scenes, that way they only have to worry about focusing the shot on her and not have to worry about switching back and forth from the stunt double. 

 

The stunt team probably has all these ideas and CL is game to try them. 

[BkWurm1]

On thesubject of Ra's, I really enjoyed how nonplussed he was

 

Random pet peeve.  I never know what people mean to say when they used nonplussed since it now means both confused/disconcerted AND not disconcerted/unperturbed.  Very frustrating that the meaning has become both in the twenty years since my ninth grade vocab quiz.;)

Edited April 1, 2016 by BkWurm1

[henripootel]

Ray got to give some physicist's son a nickname that will cause him to spend most of his adult life saying "no, not that Bill Gates," so at least there's that.

That's where I went too.  I mean it was a cute gag but pretty unlikely that this William Gates is *that* Bill Gates.  Odd jump for Ray to make, but I think we're supposed to get nerd-boners from it, not, you know, think about it.

If they'd gotten separate apartment I could maybe believe it, but they lived together and spoke of the life they'd built together.

 

Mmm - maybe.  But then, this would make Ray's getting his own place particularly odd.  I mean it was a little odd if they're going from living together (chastely) for two years to living apart, but it's super weird if they've been bumpin' uglies and now Ray essentially walks out on that relationship.  I think the only real argument that they must have been fucking steadily is ... how could they not?  Two years of nothing but backgammon and Ed Sullivan?  I think we're supposed to believe that Ray's old-fashioned like that.  Just my read on the apparent dynamics here, likely wrong.

Or did the Time Masters give Chronus a "Get out of paradox free" card ?

Yeah, more inconsistency from the writers.  They can't go back and meet themselves or the universe ends, except that ... they already have, multiple times.  Pick one, dudes.  There's simply no reason why Future You can't go back and punch Past You in the mouth even if Future You remembers no such thing ever happening.  Wibbly-wobbly, timey wimey ...

I swear twenty years ago it only meant confused and disconcerted.

 

It still does.  People have just got nonplussed inverted and now commonly use it incorrectly.  I mean it sounds like it should mean 'not ... plussed', right?  Whatever 'plussed' means.   English is an evolving, idiomatic language.