S03.E16: Dawn's Early Light

[OnceSane]

Ichabod digs into his past with Betsy Ross to discover a way to stop The Hidden One from becoming even stronger. Meanwhile, Jenny worries that her bond with her dad is broken forever; and Abbie's relationship with Reynolds grows increasingly strained.

[janeta]

Glad to see Pandora finally grow a pair...

Those are some beautiful shots of the TZ bridge but they need to update them. :-)

[Primetimer]

How is an episode with so many revelations -- and this guy -- still so dull?

Read the story

[Browncoat]

Not Paul Revere's house and not liquid nitrogen, but otherwise not a bad ep. 

 

It got a little dusty in my house when Papa Mills gave Jenny the bag of pink taffy.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Browncoat

[Enero]

Glad Pandora finally left her asshole husband.

I felt like I missed a scene between Papa Mills and Abbie. Abbie responded to him when he showed up at her house as if he'd been there many times before and that they'd gotten over him abandoning her off screen.

I thought there would be more meat to Papa Mills and maybe there is but right now his scenes are random.

Did Danny really think the eternal soldier was a human being? Lol. I guess that's the only thing that made sense in his untouched by the supernatural mind.

Was I the only one that saw some serious sparks between Danny/Sophie.

To the elephant in the room Abbie and Danny...so the odd conversation they had a couple of episodes ago did mean something. Wow. So Ichabbie is completely on ice, for now.

Overall I thought this was a strong episode.

[MissAlmond]

Thank you, Pandora. You saved this episode for me. Did Betsy fast forward to the future to pick up fake (or is it now faux) eyelashes? The solider guarding the flag greatly disappointed me by letting Daniel Reynolds live. I think I'll need even more wine for the next two episodes.

Edited March 26, 2016 by MissAlmond

[catrox14]

I love the BSC mythology stuff and the Hamilton jokes but I swear they are actively trying to sink Ichabbie.

 

Why is Betsy Ross so anachronistic? i think she's going to show up in this timeline because I think she was always out of time.

 

Her speech, her voice...I mean I don't think Nikki Reed is a great actor but surely she can do a half assed vocal change to fit into that century right?

 

I am NOT HAPPY ABOUT ABBIE AND DANNY.  I don't trust him. I think he is trying to find out the scoop on Ichabod. Like I wonder if Ichabod has been on someone's radar for some time. I could also be very wrong.

[roseslg]

Danny is boring.  I don't see any chemistry with Abbie and his acting leaves much to be desired.  It all seems so blah. So blah, so blah.  Blah,blah, blah!   I thought that when he asked about Crane he would ask if something was going on between them and that would have Abbie rethinking telling him she still had feelings.  I equally thought that Crane was going to reveal his feelings when he talked about things left unsaid (of course, he was talking about Betsy).  Side note, Betsy's voice is annoying as all get out.  I just can't listen to it.   

 

I am not here for the Dabbie/Abnny or whatever.   

[DkNNy79]

Ugh to the Danny and Abbie kiss.

Yay for Pandora finally realizing that THO doesn't give two sh*ts about her.

[Enero]

I equally thought that Crane was going to reveal his feelings when he talked about things left unsaid (of course, he was talking about Betsy).  Side note, Betsy's voice is annoying as all get out.  I just can't listen to it.   

 

I am not here for the Dabbie/Abnny or whatever.

Yeah I thought so too considering how he's responded to Abbie in previous episodes, but it was a no go. Hell he didn't even seem to be even remotely thinking about Abbie in that way in that moment or when she was talking about her relationship with Danny.

Perhaps the writers are building up the Danny/Abbie relationship so that when he dies in the finale (I'm calling it now) it'll have a greater impact on the story?

[Writing Wrongs]

I'm confused. Did they just erase Katrina from the record? Where does all the Betsy Ross stuff fit in with the Ichabod and Katrina timeline?

 

So I guess they are going to find Betsy in the catacombs and bring her to the present. Ugh. Even her voice-over letter reading was horrible. How does she get jobs?

 

I was hoping Danny would die. I so don't want him and Abbie together. Or Crane and Betsy.

 

I'm not sure what the point of Daddy Mills is.

[cynic]

Aw, crap. Now I don't even want to watch it.

I did just read the recap here though. Yikes.

[TaurusRose]

Here are my initial thoughts for this week's episode...

First, I am glad that I went into this with no expectations; it saved me from the extreme frustration and annoyance I felt last week. I am of the opinion that Crane, now knowing that Abbie wants to pursue a relationship with Danny, will not make a move to inform her of his feelings. So, anybody waiting to see Ichabbie happen, will be waiting until hell freezes over because Abbie has to explore, revisit, WHATEVER "her and Danny." At any rate, I have no interest in an A/D pairing; if that's where they wanted to go they should have done it episodes ago. It won't even matter if A/C is the endgame because it will have taken too. damn. long. I'm not waiting 4-5 seasons, providing SH gets another season or two, to see Ichabbie happen. I'm also going on record with the A/D kiss did as much for me as J/J kisses do. That would be nothing.

Second, Ezra Mills. What is the point of this character? I don't care about him and, TBH, I can't see why Abbie and Jenny do either after all this time. His lack of action as a parent informed the situations the girls had to face on their own. What exactly can he bring to the table besides taffy and photo albums? How can he ever make up for the years of abandonment? How can he fit into their lives? What about his new family? Has he run out on them now that he has adult children he can hang out with? Answers are not important because I am not interested in grown ass women allowing a loser father back into their lives. Sorry.

Third, finally! Good use of Betsy Ross. I found no fault with her or NR's performance tonight. One question though, is she gone now for good?

Danny learning the truth. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Danny asking about Crane. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Also, not the question he should have been asking. Danny and Abbie actually talking. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Crane appeared to be on the verge of confessing his feelings for Abbie a couple of times tonight, but we couldn't even get that because of interruptions (and now Abbie's Danny revelation). Good grief. I am so over the push/pull of Abbie & Crane. I won't continue to be a victim of ship-baiting. So, I'm officially accepting the company line...Ichabbie have an extraordinary bond as Witnesses. Other characters can stop telling me that they love each other. I don't care. I'm done.

Jenny and Joe didn't annoy me tonight. I chalk that up to them actually focusing on the issue at hand rather than their love. Wait, Jenny did annoy me zoning out over fucking taffy when she was supposed to be researching flags. Does she always have to whine about personal issues while digging for intel?

Again with the ineffectual guns. Enough said.

I did like the backstory--AU history--regarding the flag, the Delaware crossing, the anthem. That's SH at its best.

Pandora drop kicking THO was probably one of the best scenes of the night. Loved it. That's all for now.

Edited March 26, 2016 by taurusrose

[mjc570]

 

Anyone else just...want it over?

 

Yes, I do. 

[MissAlmond]

I'm hoping this episode and the boring Danabbiezzz kiss was simply some sort of Good Friday penance.

[DearEvette]

I liked this episode ... except for one thing... but we'll get to that later.

 

First, I liked the use of history in this episode.  It felt very much grounded in reality but with the Sleepy Hollow twist.  The history stuff with the flag and the threads and the music notes all felt clever.

 

Second, nice shout out to Hamilton.  Of course Crane would have Opinions about the Real Hamilton's singing voice!  I bet he'd totally love the musical tho.

 

Third, Pandora's scenes with the THO were strong.  And, as usual, Shannyn Sossamon really brung it.  Also, I must say Peter Mensah has some really, really nice arms!  Also she is an Ichabbie shipper!  Of course they love each other!

 

Fourth, Ichabod was giving some really strong side eye in the car when Abbie was explaining stuff to Danny and I am her for it.  He seemed too through.  LOL.

 

Okay now, ugh, really show?  Abbie wanting to start something with Danny?  Why now?  Why not six or seven episodes ago?  My only consolation is I think it is the spur that is going to make Ichabod confess how he really feels.  Also, I get the feeling Danny is not the type who would be ok with Abbie & Ichabod's bond and would force Abbie to choose. 

[TiredMe]

I am not a shipper because every time the leads get together on a show, it goes down hill. But I laughed a bit at the Danny Abbie kiss thinking about how mad everyone would be. Sorry! Lol

I really enjoy Shannon playing Pandora. Liked her since the first time I watched A Knights Tale. She's such an improvement over last seasons witch.

[Miss Dee]

I... I'm actually kind of okay with Abbie and Danny, even as a shipper for Ichabod and Abbie. I've thought for a long time - I think I even posted about it on this board - that if there was to be any Ichabbie down the road, the writers were going to have to do this first, for several reasons:

1) Characterization. Abbie has always been closed off from her emotions and compartmentalized sex from relationships and relationships from love. She has to discover how to put these parts of her life into balance. I'd rather see her do this and mess up with someone inconsequential to the main story than with her Witness partner/roommate/best friend. In short: the woman needs to learn with training wheels before mounting a big girl bike.

2) Balance. We've gotten to see Crane as a married man (and blow off his Witness partner for a turncoat wife) and romance a sweet, normal girl. In contrast, we've gotten to see Abbie push people away and eat her sad little box of Chinese food all on her lonesome. Yeah we *heard* about Daniel, but that's not the same as *seeing* it. Compare how many times we've gotten to see Crane get kissed compared to Mills. The writers really did need to balance that out a bit; otherwise it comes across as Abbie chastely waiting until Ichabod's sown all his wild oats - and honestly, I am in no way interested in that kind of implication. This is a modern partnership; she needed to get some play too.

3) Timing. I know there are lots of people who cannot take a future oriented approach to this show - there may not even be a future! - and they just want to experience Ichabbie now. I personally can't watch a TV series that way if there's any kind of serialization to it at all, and I don't think a lot of writers can write that way. I know the nature of television is such that it's a pattern of "Here's our story!" *renewed* "And then...." *renewed* "And then...." That's pretty much how much planning has gone into classic episodic television. And God knows soapy stuff still goes that way, as do procedurals. But shows with an overarching mythology are starting to give more thought to how much room they need to tell their story and how much they should parse out at any given time. If I was a writer and I wanted to write a good story, I would have to have the different beats come in organically, where I thought they would best belong. Including the romantic ones. If I was a writer on Sleepy Hollow and I thought I had even a slight shot at being renewed, I'd be brave and tell my story the way I thought it needed to be told.

And honestly, if this was my story, right now? I wouldn't be ringing the bell on Ichabbie either, not right now when I'm gambling that I have a chance to get the story told in full. Fortune favors the bold, right? I'd give Abbie a romance for all the reasons I laid out above, and I'd refrain from giving any more romance plots to Ichabod. I'd probably have him realize his feelings first, as he's more attuned to this side of his nature than she is to hers. And for conflict I'd find a plot-driven reason to shadow the relationship, rather than suggest silly things like love triangles and romantic misunderstandings could threaten a relationship built on the strength of the Witness bond.

So while I can't honestly say I'm looking forward to this plot line in and of itself, I'm not mad at the turn of events. Because this is probably where I'd take it too, and that gives me hope that Abbie/Daniel is a necessary stepping stone to the real romance that the writers are planning.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Miss Dee

[cassandle]

I've been waiting three seasons for a reference to my favorite Revolutionary War hero Hamilton and that's what I get?  Humph.

[HalcyonDays]

^^^ Miss Dee - I agree. If I KNEW we had a 4th season, I wouldn't be sweating this at all - normal human drama/experiences, that's all. The fact that *I/WE* don't KNOW is the problem. The fact that there are only two more episodes of SH ever - and yeah, Ichabbie ain't happening. No bloody way.

 

I have to admit - I'm amused by this episode, merely because of the reactions that I KNEW would occur. It's not what I wanted, but what my cynical mind expected. But the expected reactions are just making me laugh.....

 

Will say that I LOVED Pandora basically finally kicked THO to the curb - as you should, Beautiful One.

 

Sophie and Daniel have more chemistry than Abbie/Daniel.

 

Looks like Ichabbie is platonic - go figure. Thanks a lot, stupid writers, You were responsible for Deliverance, so therefore, I hate you even more now.

 

I guess this is my first show, experiencing how a ship will not occur however much I desire it. Sad and depressing and irritating.

[Happytobehere]

Yeah I thought so too considering how he's responded to Abbie in previous episodes, but it was a no go. Hell he didn't even seem to be even remotely thinking about Abbie in that way in that moment or when she was talking about her relationship with Danny.

Perhaps the writers are building up the Danny/Abbie relationship so that when he dies in the finale (I'm calling it now) it'll have a greater impact on the story?

The only impact Danny's death will be my joy about the removal of a character who doesn't work with any character I care about. The character doesn't work on any level and oh yeah, while making demands about information he feels entitled to, I didn't notice him talking about keeping Abby close because, "She is an asset." Guess truth and being owed things only goes one way with that guy.

[Free]

I'm confused. Did they just erase Katrina from the record? Where does all the Betsy Ross stuff fit in with the Ichabod and Katrina timeline?

 

Basically, the previous seasons especially Season 2 has been retconned in the retooling.  It's why the series restarted with new villains and characters altogether and left behind the Horsemen/Apocalypse storylines behind.

[festivus]

Well I finally got on the ship and it crashed into a rock.

[catrox14]

The only impact Danny's death will be my joy about the removal of a character who doesn't work with any character I care about. The character doesn't work on any level and oh yeah, while making demands about information he feels entitled to, I didn't notice him talking about keeping Abby close because, "She is an asset." Guess truth and being owed things only goes one way with that guy.

 

I think that whole 'She is an asset" is the key to why Danny is pressing Abbie for the truth. I feel like there is more to that than just them having a romance at Quantico.

 

IMO, he's a mole for like some other big supernatural organization or something like the Illuminati or the Mason. (ack I have a hard time not typing that with a capital S#lovemyWinchesters)

[blugirlami21]

This show.  I love this show but it's so frustrating at times.  I too am confused by Crane's time with Betsy Ross.  When did any of that take place?  I didn't like Katrina but her role in Crane's history can't really be replaced.  His romance with Betsy also doesn't read right since Katrina was supposed to be the love of his life. It just makes him look like a flake if he was with Betsy before Katrina.  I hope to god that they don't find Betsy in the present time, we don't need another fourth in the triangle that suddenly reappeared in this episode.

 

Speaking of that, where did Abbie's sudden reinterest in Danny come from?  You could have knocked me over with a feather when she said she needed to tell Danny the truth if she wanted a future with him.  Whaaaat?  Ichabod's reaction was very telling.  He was just as blindsided as we were.  Danny and Abbie have negative chemistry and Danny is not on the up and up like he seems.  I'm guessing Abbie will either see him for who and what he really is or she will be forced to choose between Crane and Danny.  One guess on who she will choose.

 

I ship Ichabbie and in the past I could accept that Ichabod loved his wife and his relationship with Abbie was super close but ultimately platonic.  But they have done so much since then up to last week's episode to hint that their relationship is more than just friends and I wish that they would stop if it's never going to happen.  A fourth season is not promised.  At all.  I don't want the show to end with all that buildup being for nothing.  The season isn't over yet so I'll tolerate Dabnie? like I tolerated Ichatrina? (Did Katrina and Ichabod have a shipper name?)

 

The best thing about this episode was definitely Pandora.  Man, that was some Ike and Tina stuff in the beginning especially when he told her to go clean herself up after trying to drown her.  I'm glad she has washed her hands of him and let him know what a prick he is.  I found it very interesting that she told THO that Abbie and Ichabod loved each other.  Seems like we might have another Ichabbie shipper on deck if nothing else.

[catrox14]

 

Did Katrina and Ichabod have a shipper name?

 

Yes. #worstshipever

[Miss Dee]

Yes. #worstshipever

LOL The trauma is alive! It was "Ichatrina".

[Sparkling Beth]

I liked most of the episode very much.  Even Betsy Ross finally had a purpose, so I didn't mind her.  And I loved the twisted history that SN does so well.  But I have one thing to say to Daniel Reynolds:

 

STEP AWAY FROM ABBIE.  NOW.  OR I CAN'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS.

 

Seriously, show?  I'm grasping at a very thin straw telling me that before long Abbie and Danny will realize that their relationship will never work, not because of the monsters or the danger, but because Abbie loves another.  Please.  I don't want to spend good money for a new TV set, but I will have to if this Danny/Abbie relationship blossoms, because my former TV will have a shoe through its screen.

[Frozendiva]

I too liked the US history (I am Canadian) in the episode and that the holes in the fake flag were musical notes. The whipstitch vs cross-stitch was quite interesting. Now comes the challenge of replacing the flag.

 

I did find the scene at the Paul Revere house jarring. One second, it was a normal house and then a quick cut to some dark place. I rewound my PVR to figure out if I missed something. A weird jump cut or some odd editing. I cried foul at the Orpheus statue door opening. Unless that statue is well-ventilated and has some airflow,  it's hundreds of years old and the air when the door slid open would be quite foul. Like opening a pyramid door after it's been sealed for thousands of years. Both Ich and Abbie should have been wearing some sort of medical mask and had a small oxygen tank.

 

Am surprised Danny hasn't read the story/legend of Sleepy Hollow and the Headless Horseman, complete with the tales of Ichabod Crane. He's kinda like Dana Scully meets Fox Mulder at the basement office - the FBI's most unwanted. Abbie may still want a more normal life and maybe she isn't ready for anything with Crane. Danny is 'safe' and maybe it won't hurt as much when he dies or leaves for a new FBI posting.

 

Do wonder if Katrina was a replacement for the unattainable Betsy.

 

Was happy that Pandora left the Hidden One. He isn't much for being any sort of 'god'. He now has plenty of time to cook up some plans hatched by himself - someone who hasn't evolved over 5000 years - a man who wasn't made for modern times. Does he think that it will be that easy to run the modern world?

 

No point to Daddy Mills at this time.

[Snookums]

Ugh, I can't watch until tomorrow (Thank you, FOX scheduling) as long as Comcast doesn't decide out of nowhere to not put up the episode on On Demand, like they did with Gotham this week but...

 

A Danny/Abbie kiss? No. No. 

 

What the hell is with this show and it's Bizarro World, Opposite Day insistence on couples that nobody cares about/have the wrong kind of chemistry? It's one thing to tease Ichiabbie, it's quite another to insist we should care about the CFD, or Joenny, or this whole "nothing about this couple makes any sense, NOTHING" that is Danny/Abbie. 

 

These two have no chemistry, not even the nostalgic kind.  I could maybe buy a one night stand? With Danny carrying a bit of a torch afterwards. But this whole "we never declared our love but it was real" thing just is not happening. And it's not the fault of the actors; both Beharie and Goss have good chops. It's that they simply cannot combine to make a believable romantic couple, just like mixing mud and mayonnaise will not produce a milkshake. There is no philosopher's stone in existence that can conjure gold out of these two. 

 

It doesn't matter what kind of show you're on; people are convincing in certain scenarios or they aren't. And I really get the feeling that the showrunners are counting on the "whacky, out there" vibe of all the MOTWs and Crane discovering doughnuts and so on to cover up/coat the fact that they are terrified of going full on Ichiabbie because they think they'll have nothing left if they do, so instead they keep trotting out all these boring substitutes. It's like going to the boardwalk to see A  Real Live Dinosaur and the carnies keep trying to fob you off with chickens.

[catrox14]

 

Do wonder if Katrina was a replacement for the unattainable Betsy.

 

You know. I fucking HATED Katrina and Ichabod, but I'll be kind of pissed off if ALL THE SHIT I suffered through so they could stall or sink Ichabbie, and pushed that fucking #SHIPFROMHELL was that really #KILLITWITHFIRE was sloppy seconds?

 

That would be simultaneously hilarious and infuriating LOL

[rubyred]

I try not to let myself get caught up in the shipping, because therein madness lies. But what pisses me off is when a show is obviously hedging its bets to keep all options open, to the detriment of the story as a whole. This show keeps showing its ass.

First we have a cute scene with Crane coming home to find Ezra there, Abbie not deigning to define their relationship, Ezra assuming Crane is her boo, and Crane promising to take care of her. Yay, Ichabbie fanservice!

Then minutes later we find out from Abbie that she's been wanting to get together with Daniel again. Wha? Where did this come from? And then Daniel plays it straight, just in case they want to ignore his squirelly meetings with Michael O'Keefe. Yay, Dabbie fanservice!

Then we have to listen to Betsy Ross' halting love letter, which...not necessary or welcome on any level.

At this point the arch of Lyndie Greenwood's eyebrows is infinitely more interesting than her daddy issuezzzzzzz.

Don't waste James McDaniel, show!

[cynic]

Oddly enough, I actually liked this episode! Maybe it's because I read the recap/thread before watching, so I was prepared for the irritating bits or maybe because I was expecting to hate it, so the fact it didn't make me want to hurl stuff at my TV was a pleasant surprise, but I thought this was one of the better episodes of the season.

Starting in the shallow end of the pool, everyone just looked stunning. The lighting, costumes, and hair/makeup were working for me. I even thought Betsy looked great and I hate that character.

Speaking of Betsy, her flashback worked okay this episode. The idea of it was fine and I liked her talk with Crane about only being remembered for her flag. It would have been better if Reed was a more capable actress, but I'm just happy that they've toned her down. Her reading of the letter was flat out awful though. Her voice is still terrible and it was like she was seeing the words for the first time.

The flag plot was ridiculous and the leaps of logic that they took figuring out what they needed to do were ludicrous, but it felt closer to classic Sleepy Hollow than most of this season, complete with what seemed like a poor man's Headless. It's too bad that this was in service to the overall arc of defeating THO, because he is a boring, toothless Big Bad. Was he napping when Pandora left? I laughed when he was wandering around his cave looking for Pandora. At least she left his ass though!

As for Danny, I didn't mind their interaction. I just think it has come at the wrong, absolute worst time. This should have happened in the fall and been completed and over by now. I'm not even a big Ichabbie shipper, but it still passes me off that they are pulling this now, risking ending the entire series on this note, especially after shipbaiting so hard and admonishing us for not having faith (looking at you, Leigh Dana Jackson). Even without Ichabbie becoming a thing, I would rather have the show spend its last hours focused on the witnesses together than waste time with the build up (and likely loss) of a relationship with a character I don't give a fig about. Even Goffman gave the fans the respect of a decent wrap-up since SH was on the bubble last year. I guess the new guy doesn't roll that way considering he left Glades fans in the lurch on a cliffhanger when it got canceled.

The one thing that I did really like about the Danny plot point though was how open and happy Abbie was. It's been a long time since she's been this light. I really had stopped shipping Ichabbie and this episode made me realize why. Part of the reason is because I feel like TPTB are kinda jerking us around a bit, but the major reason is that I don't feel as much affection in their interactions as there used to be and that's largely due to a change in Abbie. Abbie has always been reserved and somewhat closed off, but I think they really amped that up this season. Sure, Abbie told Crane that he was her rock when she was in the catacombs, but that came after half a season in which she often seemed to keep him at arms length. She also stopped showing as much pleasure or amusement at Crane's antics. I miss the times when she would smile and laugh at him. She's sterner with him nowadays and gets more exasperated with him. But she was smiling this episode! Okay, it was at Danny, but hopefully this will lead to more smiles in general. Beharie has such a beautiful smile.

[Indi]

This show.  I love this show but it's so frustrating at times.  I too am confused by Crane's time with Betsy Ross.  When did any of that take place?  I didn't like Katrina but her role in Crane's history can't really be replaced.  His romance with Betsy also doesn't read right since Katrina was supposed to be the love of his life. It just makes him look like a flake if he was with Betsy before Katrina.  I hope to god that they don't find Betsy in the present time, we don't need another fourth in the triangle that suddenly reappeared in this episode.

 

The Sexy!Betsy/Ichy romance took place at the same time Crane was betrothed or married to Katrina. The show usually displays when a flashback is taking place and Ichy was kissing and making heart-eyes at Betsy, while he was with Katrina. Apparently the writers forgot to watch S1 to prevent any cheating from happening (or maybe not, who knows?). It's not that he looks like a flake, he is a cheating flake. And so is Betsy, who was married at that time acc. to History (although the show doesn't mention it).

 

So the kiss... On the plus side: Abbie has been finally kissed! Miracle of miracles! At the end of three freaking seasons, when every other character regular or not have been kissing and whatnot forever! On the minus side: In a display of the writing staff's talents (none whatsoever), instead of developing that relationship in the first half of the season, you know, when it would have made sense, they do it now, after Danny has behaved less than reasonably and his interactions with Abbie have been sparse and confusing at best. But then, on the plus side: It's a testament to Nicole's and Lance's chemistry, that even after the poor handling of the characters and the awful writing, that subdued kiss was the hottest thing this show has ever had. That's how you do an on screen kiss! I hope Tom Mison is taking notes. It's never too late to learn.

 

Did I miss a scene or an entire episode perhaps? How is it that Ezra is in such good terms with Abbie and behaving so much like parent?

[CooperTV]

I think that was one of the best episodes this season. It was fast-paced, it was really crazy in all right ways, it crammed a lot of characters in it but didn't overshadow the Witnesses. I like it a lot.

 

Yay, balls to the wall insane Revolutionary War Magic Stuff! I'm so glad you're back! The US flag with the first notes of the national anthem music on it is a road through the Catacombs! A hidden room under the Orpheus statue! The Eternal Man throwing fireballs! Jenny with the fire extinguisher! Abbie using her gun yet again to shoot at the supernatural creatures because she never learns!

 

Danny was alright (when not with Abbie), I like him being all confused and adorable with Sophie. Do the writers have any intention to bring his connections with the Creepy Government Official again? Or we firmly of Good!Danny train now?

 

Daddy Mills is so going to die to protect his girls. I like how Jenny was the standoffish one but still was conflicted. Nice scene at the end with them. Also, a fun scene with hims and the sisters at the beginning and Daddy Mills assuming Ichabod is Abbie's SO! He and Pandora should write Ichabbie fanfic now, BTW. Because Pandora is an Ichabbie stan!

 

I'm glad Pandora decided to stop the circle  of abuse here. THO is the worst, and I'm glad she finally realized that. Good conversation between Ichabod and Pandora, although I don't think she will be as neutral as she appears to be now after they'll destroy THO.

 

I was wondering in what time Betsy Ross came out of the Catacombs.

 

So, Abbie decided to talk about her love life with Ichabod? That was a first. Obviously, I'm glad he had an insight for here there and a parallel with him and Betsy. Danny and Abbie kissing in his fish-tank of a office at work was great and not creepy or inappropriate at all.

Edited March 26, 2016 by CooperTV

[Helena Dax]

Ugh. UGH! Why, show, why? 

 

I can't with this. Abbie's love life should have had its moment back in the first season, when she was with that cop, or maybe at the beginning of this season. But now? Really? It's like a bad joke. The show should be focusing on Ichabod and Abbie's relationship. I'm not saying they should be already kissing, it's okay if the writers want to wait a bit more, but this isn't the way to do it. After everything that happened at the Catacombs, their relationship should be stronger than ever. It's not just the hand porn, it's also the "you were my Wilson", the "I need your help", the "I lost my chance to become American because I was too worried looking for you". These things should have consequences. But are they closer? No. Because now we have Danny and suddenly Abbie wants to have his babies. Ugh. 

 

I still think Ichabbie is endgame. Danny's lying to her and he'll probably die at the end of the season. But TPTB are playing with fire here. I'm not sure sacrificing the strongest asset they have -the chemistry between TM and NB- is a smart move.

 

Dad Mills was another thing I didn't like. What's the point? I'm sorry, but I doubt the way to compensate for the CFD is devoting time to MFD, not if it's going to be so boring. 

 

But the episode had some good things too. I loved the flashbacks and the flag stuff, that was fun. And Pandora left her husband! Well done, girl! Also, I like the idea of them going back to the Catacombs, it sounds exciting. It's just the kiss left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Enero]

This show. I love this show but it's so frustrating at times. I too am confused by Crane's time with Betsy Ross. When did any of that take place? I didn't like Katrina but her role in Crane's history can't really be replaced. His romance with Betsy also doesn't read right since Katrina was supposed to be the love of his life.

The only thing that kind of makes the timeline work is if it's believed that he and Betsy only knew each other for a very short period of time. I believe all of the big events Crane mentioned he and Betsy went through i.e. the burning of New York, the crossing of the Delaware etc. happened in 1776. I'm guessing he met Katrina right after that. They had a quick courtship then married, were together for most of the war (6 years per Crane earlier this season), before he died.

Of course there are still massive holes in this timeline too because I think in S1 and S2 we were told thar Katrina played a role in Crane switching sides in the war.

 

Dad Mills was another thing I didn't like. What's the point? I'm sorry, but I doubt the way to compensate for the CFD is devoting time to MFD, not if it's going to be so boring. 

 

But the episode had some good things too. I loved the flashbacks and the flag stuff, that was fun. And Pandora left her husband! Well done, girl! Also, I like the idea of them going back to the Catacombs, it sounds exciting. It's just the kiss left a bad taste in my mouth.

I agree. I'm not completely opposed to Danny/Abbie but the timing is completely wrong. If the writers were going to go there they should've went there earlier this season. And I agree with the person upthread who inferred that them kissing in Danny's office was very unprofessional and IMO OOC for Abbie whose always prided herself on being professional.

The Papa Mills scenes made absolutely no sense. I didn't understand why Abbie was so cozy with him? He abandoned them and worse, he didn't even bother to come looking for them! They had to find him! As someone said candy and pictures is just not going to cut it. At this point, he is useless and waste of valuable screen time.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Enero

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Best part of the episode: Pandora finally left that jerk!

 

But Danny and Abbie? No thanks, show. And to top it all off, they kissed in his office at work. You know, his office with glass walls where anyone could have seen them.

 

The Betsy Ross voiceover was so bad that it took me out of the moment.

[MissAlmond]

Every Saturday morning, PTV has some ad that causes my computer to crash.  So I’m doing this in my word processor and posting fast, without any quotes.

 

On the subject of The Glades: A&E suddenly cancelled it and Longmire without any notice to either showrunner.  Longmire has since been picked up by Netflix. That’s why The Glades ended abruptly.  Knowing how hard Clifton Campbell took this, I expected more from him when it came to ending Sleepy Hollow. 

 

THO/Pandora story was spot on.  Whoever mentioned they were Ike and Tina Turner were right.  Unlike many, I found this story, not enjoyable (because abuse is never that) but compelling.  It reminded me of how science fiction TV shows of old would take a taboo/tough subject and hide it behind monsters etc.  The Twilight Zone was a master of this.  IMO, THO/Pandora showed that even a confident woman like Pandora can be abused in the name of love.  PM/SS had the chemistry to make this work too.  I fully believed at one time Pandora was deeply in love with THO and THO saw her beauty, but instead decided to use it for his own benefit.  Pandora finally ,not only lashing out, but using tools she learned from THO himself was glorious!   Now if only she would advise Abbie not to follow her path with that damn boring Daniel Reynolds (but more on that later).

 

Shipping had nothing to do with my dislike of Betsy Ross.  Nikki Reed is (as I said before) a bad actress.  Or, at the very least, she’s a bad actress in playing a role in a period piece.  IMO, the reason everyone believed Betsy Ross would step in the 21st century is because it’s the only logical explanation for Betsy Ross sounding the way she does.   I do admit NR was much better in the second half of season three and her speaking to Ichabod while sewing the flag was fine.  But her line reading of the letter!  That wasn’t just bad, it was painful!  NR sounds like a very nice woman but take my advice: You were not meant for roles whose timeframe stretches before the 1980's.

 

I did like the twist on American history.  It was also nice to have a “demon” whose purpose was for the good. 

 

Now for the bad.  Someone mentioned the Danabbie kissing scene working because of the chemistry of NB/LG.  Please have that chemistry report immediately to my local FOX affiliate because it sure as hell is missing from my TV.  Yes, I am an Ichabbie shipper. I’m a shipper because of the rare chemistry between the two leads.  I never was one to want it “now”, just as I never needed Abbie having an active love life as a stopgap measure with Reynolds.  I bought the concept of Abbie having walls and what’s terribly disappointing is the show was doing an excellent job of showing them melting away. Now suddenly we’re supposed too believe that, after talking and playing chess with Crane while alone in the catacombs, Abbie suddenly wants to resume a relationship with Daniel Reynolds?  Come on show!  Not only that, but now I must also put up with him as part of Team Witness?  Wine isn’t strong enough for me to deal with that. For that I need whiskey.  Stat.

 

This kiss was a waste of an episode and there are only two left.  It’s not the time to explore Crane/Zoe’s Bobbsey twin.   At this point, from following the breadcrumbs left by the show itself, the only explanation I’m willing to take is Daniel Reynolds is a mole for Shady FBI Guy.  OR Shady FBI Guy is the new Moloch and Daniel Reynolds is in reality Famine, send to “starve” off the Witnesses bond.  Or the true head of Evil Operations in Sleepy Hollow. The whole bee stung confession being nothing more than a clever ruse to fool Abbie.  If that happens, I'll tip my hat at the writers for being bold enough to have a Danabbie kiss set up that twist this late in the game.

 

But if this is it.  If after all this, Danabbie is endgame, I  said I would, and unlike today’s politicians, I will, come to PTV and confess I was wrong about S3.  I’m woman enough to admit my mistakes. However, I won’t destroy my main TV set because that bad boy is a Sony, made in the days when Sony was King.  I may have been a fool about SH, but I won't be about that.

Edited March 26, 2016 by MissAlmond

[roseslg]

Every Saturday morning, PTV has some ad that causes my computer to crash.  So I’m doing this in my word processor and posting fast, without any quotes.

 

On the subject of The Glades: A&E suddenly cancelled it and Longmire without any notice to either showrunner.  Longmire has since been picked up by Netflix. That’s why The Glades ended abruptly.  Knowing how hard Clifton Campbell took this, I expected more from him when it came to ending Sleepy Hollow. 

 

THO/Pandora story was spot on.  Whoever mentioned they were Ike and Tina Turner were right.  Unlike many, I found this story, not enjoyable (because abuse is never that) but compelling.  It reminded me of how science fiction TV shows of old would take a taboo/tough subject and hide it behind monsters etc.  The Twilight Zone was a master of this.  IMO, THO/Pandora showed that even a confident woman like Pandora can be abused in the name of love.  PM/SS had the chemistry to make this work too.  I fully believed at one time Pandora was deeply in love with THO and THO saw her beauty, but instead decided to use it for his own benefit.  Pandora finally ,not only lashing out, but using tools she learned from THO himself was glorious!   Now if only she would advise Abbie not to follow her path with that damn boring Daniel Reynolds (but more on that later).

 

Shipping had nothing to do with my dislike of Betsy Ross.  Nikki Reed is (as I said before) a bad actress.  Or, at the very least, she’s a bad actress in playing a period piece.  IMO, the reason everyone believed Betsy Ross would step in the 21st century is because it’s the only logical explanation for Betsy Ross sounding the way she does.   I do admit NR was much better in the second half of season three and her speaking to Ichabod while sewing the flag was ok.  But her line reading of the letter!  That wasn’t just bad, it was painful!  NR sounds like a very nice woman but take my advice: You were not meant for roles whose timeframe stretches before the 1980's.

 

I did like the twist on American history.  It was also nice to have a “demon” whose purpose was for the good. 

 

Now for the bad.  Someone mentioned the Danabbie kissing scene working because of the chemistry of NB/LG.  Please have that chemistry report immediately to my local FOX affiliate because it sure as hell is missing from my TV.  Yes, I am an Ichabbie shipper. I’m a shipper because of the rare chemistry between the two leads.  I never was one to want it “now”, just as I never needed Abbie having an active love life as a stopgap measure with Reynolds.  I bought the concept of Abbie having walls and what’s terribly disappointing is the show was doing an excellent job of showing them melting away. Now suddenly we’re supposed too believe that, after talking and playing chess with Crane while alone in the catacombs, Abbie suddenly wants to resume a relationship with Daniel Reynolds?  Come on show!  Not only that, but now I must also put up with him as part of Team Witness?  Wine isn’t strong enough for me to deal with that. For that I need whiskey.  Stat.

 

This kiss was a waste of an episode and there are only two left.  It’s not the time to explore Crane/Zoe’s Bobbsey twin.   At this point, from following the breadcrumbs left by the show itself, the only explanation I’m willing to take is Daniel Reynolds is a mole for Shady FBI Guy.  OR Shady FBI Guy is the new Moloch and Daniel Reynolds is in reality Famine, send by the new Moloch to “starve” off the Witnesses bond.  Or the true head of Evil Operations in Sleepy Hollow. The whole confession after being stung by the bees being nothing more than a clever ruse to fool Abbie.  If that happens, I'll tip my hat at the writers for being bold this late in the game.

 

But if this is it.  If after all this, Danabbie is endgame, I  said I would, and unlike today’s politicians, I will, come to PTV and confess I was wrong about S3.  I’m woman enough to admit my mistakes. However, I won’t destroy my main TV set because that bad boy is a Sony, made in the days when Sony was King.  I may have been a fool about SH, but I won't be about that.

This all day!!  I can't figure out how to quote only bits, but if someone could please send the same fax to me, or better yet, telegraph, it would be greatly appreciated.   There is no chemistry.  None.   ZIlch.  Zero.  Zip.  Nada.   I mean, I had wine and a Guinness and it still didn't help.   

[Julia]

We do know we have a fourth season, so there's that. (ETA apparently we do not know this yet)

I'm not at all surprised. This is Bones 101 (and later Castle 101). Drag out the UST, because it means people will impose subtext on even your hackiest episodes, and then throw the shippers a bone by hooking up the B couple with way less chemistry in season 3 while throwing up obstacles to the A team.

This actually doesn't surprise or upset me, because frankly I think the actors are doing so much of the heavy lifting in the successful moments that I bluntly don't trust the writers with Ichabod and Abbie. Honestly, does watching Jenny/Joe, Danny/Abbie, and Betsy Ross/the entire world make you want to see this group put words in the mouths of Ichabbie? Not to mention that most of the writer's room was in place for Katrina.

I figure as long as I stay off Tumblr for the gifs of the weekly longing looks, I get to keep my Ichabod and Abbie having a thing for each other without it making either of them stupid feels and just watch for the mots (that, they seem to have a feel for) and the actors.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Julia

[blixie]

The episode was a'iright but yeah Sophie/Danny had WAY way more chemistry in that one scene then Nikki and that guy have managed over several, hopefully that's intentional, Abbie came clean to him, but he hasn't come clean to Abbie about people spying on her. So that's a relationship that is going nowhere, if I knew there was a S4, I'd want him to live and he and Sophie could be another aspect of the team/show, but as it is DIE DANNY DIE.

 

Also glad to see Pandora shut THO down, now I just need her to go burn up all his shit like Angela Bassett in Waiting to Exhale. 

 

 

We do know we have a fourth season, so there's that.

 

We do? Since when? I have seen no news about renewal for SH.

Edited March 26, 2016 by blixie

[MissAlmond]

We do know we have a fourth season, so there's that.

 

 

Clifton is that you?  Are you breaking news of SH renewal on PTV?  How cool!  Anyway, please contact me and come over immediately.  Liam wants to show you his special set of skills.

[Julia]

Sorry, the upgrade was from longshot to up in the air, not renewal.

[bethy]

Do we actually know the show got renewed? I haven't seen that anywhere.

[TaurusRose]

Now for the bad.  Someone mentioned the Danabbie kissing scene working because of the chemistry of NB/LG.  Please have that chemistry report immediately to my local FOX affiliate because it sure as hell is missing from my TV.  Yes, I am an Ichabbie shipper. I’m a shipper because of the rare chemistry between the two leads.  I never was one to want it “now”, just as I never needed Abbie having an active love life as a stopgap measure with Reynolds.  I bought the concept of Abbie having walls and what’s terribly disappointing is the show was doing an excellent job of showing them melting away. Now suddenly we’re supposed too believe that, after talking and playing chess with Crane while alone in the catacombs, Abbie suddenly wants to resume a relationship with Daniel Reynolds?  Come on show!  Not only that, but now I must also put up with him as part of Team Witness?  Wine isn’t strong enough for me to deal with that. For that I need whiskey.  Stat.

THIS. All of THIS.

[kminfinity]

I... I'm actually kind of okay with Abbie and Danny, even as a shipper for Ichabod and Abbie. I've thought for a long time - I think I even posted about it on this board - that if there was to be any Ichabbie down the road, the writers were going to have to do this first, for several reasons:

1) Characterization. Abbie has always been closed off from her emotions and compartmentalized sex from relationships and relationships from love. She has to discover how to put these parts of her life into balance. I'd rather see her do this and mess up with someone inconsequential to the main story than with her Witness partner/roommate/best friend. In short: the woman needs to learn with training wheels before mounting a big girl bike.

2) Balance. We've gotten to see Crane as a married man (and blow off his Witness partner for a turncoat wife) and romance a sweet, normal girl. In contrast, we've gotten to see Abbie push people away and eat her sad little box of Chinese food all on her lonesome. Yeah we *heard* about Daniel, but that's not the same as *seeing* it. Compare how many times we've gotten to see Crane get kissed compared to Mills. The writers really did need to balance that out a bit; otherwise it comes across as Abbie chastely waiting until Ichabod's sown all his wild oats - and honestly, I am in no way interested in that kind of implication. This is a modern partnership; she needed to get some play too.

3) Timing. I know there are lots of people who cannot take a future oriented approach to this show - there may not even be a future! - and they just want to experience Ichabbie now. I personally can't watch a TV series that way if there's any kind of serialization to it at all, and I don't think a lot of writers can write that way. I know the nature of television is such that it's a pattern of "Here's our story!" *renewed* "And then...." *renewed* "And then...." That's pretty much how much planning has gone into classic episodic television. And God knows soapy stuff still goes that way, as do procedurals. But shows with an overarching mythology are starting to give more thought to how much room they need to tell their story and how much they should parse out at any given time. If I was a writer and I wanted to write a good story, I would have to have the different beats come in organically, where I thought they would best belong. Including the romantic ones. If I was a writer on Sleepy Hollow and I thought I had even a slight shot at being renewed, I'd be brave and tell my story the way I thought it needed to be told.

And honestly, if this was my story, right now? I wouldn't be ringing the bell on Ichabbie either, not right now when I'm gambling that I have a chance to get the story told in full. Fortune favors the bold, right? I'd give Abbie a romance for all the reasons I laid out above, and I'd refrain from giving any more romance plots to Ichabod. I'd probably have him realize his feelings first, as he's more attuned to this side of his nature than she is to hers. And for conflict I'd find a plot-driven reason to shadow the relationship, rather than suggest silly things like love triangles and romantic misunderstandings could threaten a relationship built on the strength of the Witness bond.

So while I can't honestly say I'm looking forward to this plot line in and of itself, I'm not mad at the turn of events. Because this is probably where I'd take it too, and that gives me hope that Abbie/Daniel is a necessary stepping stone to the real romance that the writers are planning.

Great post.  ITA on all points.

 

I am surprised more people haven't commented on Pandora's comparison of IchAbbie and her relationship with THO.  P+THO is/was clearly a romantic/sexual relationship, a marriage she even calls it.  So the fact she uses IchAbbie as the model of a real, strong powerful relationship, and comes right out and states that they love one another, is huge for long term story. 

 

I'm sorry so many people are so disencahnted with TPTB that they can't trust a developing story to bear fruit, or that the show will be renewed.  Hey, I was a huge Firefly fan, so cue the violins.  But even knowing what might-not-ever-be, I am not supporting a rushed story.  It is not yet time for IchAbbie. 

 

Also - Add me to the list of people who think Danny dies in the finale.  After revealing to Abbie that he was really spying on her, not in love with her?  Or maybe, started out as a 'job' to romance her and becomes real just as he dies and reveals all?  That will rock her in several ways for next season in a good way.

Edited March 26, 2016 by kminfinity

[ChromaKelly]

Yay! We got thrown a Hamilton bone. Although I would think Crane would have heard of Hamilton by now, but whatever. I'm happy. I was hoping for Ham in the flashback, please make that happen.

 

I think Danny has got to be up to something. Or he's going to die so that Abbie will realize she loves Crane.

 

I can't with Betsy Ross. Please make it stop. Plus her teeth are way too white.
 

[TwistedandBored]

I am here for Abbie getting some love. She hasn't had any since the show started. All Crane needs to do is man up and tell Abbie he has feelings for her before things get serious between Abby and Danny. 

 

Anyways, it was a good episode. I enjoyed it. 

[MissAlmond]

 

I'm sorry so many people are so disencahnted with TPTB that they can't trust a developing story to bear fruit, or that the show will be renewed.  Hey, I was a huge Firefly fan, so cue the violins.  But even knowing what might-not-ever-be, I am not supporting a rushed story.  It is not yet time for IchAbbie.

 

I have been there for S3.  I've been an avid supporter of it since FOX announced Campbell as the new showrunner.  I read his history, I know how brokenhearted he was over The Glades and that he still has loyal viewers who hope for its return.   I understand and appreciate long term, not rushed storytelling and have been following the tidbits along the way so "yes" I heard exactly what Pandora said to THO.

 

But, here's the thing.  This was the third to the last episode and I expect more from a showrunner who personally went through heartache himself over a show he wasn't given the chance to properly end the way he wanted to.  I would have been more than happy dealing with this Danny storyline (which has always bored me, just like Crane/Zoe bored me) if it had been addressed earlier.  After the catacombs, I would have watched Abbie still dealing with her trauma well into the finale and starting with a (possible) S4.  But this spending time in the catacombs, talking and playing games with one man only, then suddenly wants to date another?  Clifton Campbell is an adult, this entire season has adult themes running through it.  Does any adult want to hear from a potential partner: "Hey, when I was held captive and thought I was going to die, I only had Ichabod on my mind. But now that I'm free, let's start dating again.  OK." 

 

However, I said if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I will be woman enough to say it.  If Danny is shady, I will be shocked and happy because maybe as a villian, the man will bring some spice the same way Katrina finally got my attention when she went PTA soccer mom crazy.  I also said I would give the writers a huge tip of the hat for having the balls to go down to the wire with a huge twist when cancellation looms large and the possiblity of losing even more viewers before the big reveal. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by MissAlmond