S02.E08: Guilty As Sin

[The Crazed Spruce]

As the firm's trial spins out of control, a figure from Murdock's past returns to deliver shocking revelations about the future of Hell's Kitchen.

[Bec]

Hey, it's Brother Justin from Carnivale!

 

When Stick asked Electra if Matt's still going to want her when he finds out what she is, I was like "What? A killer? Doesn't Matt know that already?"

 

But then Matt did look hella surprised when Electra killed that ninja. What did you expect, Matthew?

 

I did feel bad for Electra in that "you're the only one who thinks I can be good" scene.

[AimingforYoko]

Nice to see you Mr. Fisk.

Stick's still an asshole, good to know. I'm assuming his driver is Stone.

[FurryFury]

Seriously? The "light inside" stuff? Have the writers been watching Arrow?

[zxy556575]

Elektra! Now here's a character with some layers. I'm enjoying Elektra and Elektra/Matt so much more than Karen and Karen/Matt.

 

Karen and Matt have so many lies between them that neither one even understands who the other is. Elektra is also hiding some shit but somehow I blame her less. If Stick is to be believed, the implication is definitely that it will be devastating (or horrifying, or both) to Matt when it comes out. For now, Elektra has made Karen more interesting to me simply by being her counterpoint for Matt's own duality.

[Cthulhudrew]

I think the implication (at least from what I know of the comic character) isn't just that Elektra has killed, but that she's a killer; she's an assassin, and death is not just a consequence of her actions, but the end. At least that's the inference I made of her confession to Stick.

 

But I do like that she's nuanced, and her scenes with Matt are great. I am also glad that, via Stick, they've given her someone else to play off of. Plus, Scott Glenn is awesome. Hopefully they won't confine Elektra's interactions just to the two of them.

 

I'm not sure Stone is the driver; if he was, I'd have expected him to be a little more involved. Plus, that guy didn't look quite big enough to be Stone. I'm guessing we'll see Stone soon, though- Stick did say he's "getting the band back together."

[Pogojoco]

I like Elektra a lot. Jennifer Garner was always the wrong choice for that part (other than being really fit). Elektra should be foreign and Yung fits the bill. 

 

The Punisher is just a great character. Menacing but also sympathetic. Bernthal plays the hell out of him. 

[Ruby25]

You can really see how much Matt loves Elektra in this episode. He called her "sweetie" when she was dying in the car at the beginning and when he started praying while holding her hand and everything.

 

I like them together so much more than him and Karen.

[VCRTracking]

Oh shit! Was not expecting the Kingpin showing up this season!

 

The first 10 minutes were tense. Like Mia Wallace ODing on heroin and needing an adreniline shot to the chest tense. This whole episode had a Tarantino vibe with the Pulp Fiction opening and Kill Bill with the stories of ancient warriors and too young assassins.

 

Loved Clancy Brown's testimony.

 

Damn Karen are you going to ignore the old guy who was also in the apartment in you jealousy? You've reached Felicity Smoak levels of unreasonableness.

[Racj82]

Oh shit! Was not expecting the Kingpin showing up this season!

The first 10 minutes were tense. Like Mia Wallace ODing on heroin and needing an adreniline shot to the chest tense. This whole episode had a Tarantino vibe with the Pulp Fiction opening and Kill Bill with the stories of ancient warriors and too young assassins.

Loved Clancy Brown's testimony.

Damn Karen are you going to ignore the old guy who was also in the apartment in you jealousy? You've reached Felicity Smoak levels of unreasonableness.

Unreasonableness despite every clue this season that Matt is keeping important secrets from her and then she finds a unexplained woman in his bed? Yeah, she needs to get a grip.

All of it was shady looking. The woman was just the capper. Many reasonable people would have the same reaction.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Racj82

[calliope1975]

Since I've never been on trial for murder and have only watched a few hours of Court TV, is there any remote possibility people would be able to have signs that say, "Frank Castle is a murderer" in the courtroom with the jury present? That took me right out of the scene.

 

Other than that, I'm really enjoying this season and the addition of The Punisher and Elecktra. I was also irritated at Matt because Elecktra never would have been sliced and diced if he hadn't distracted her with his moral code. And said bad ninja ended up dead anyway because Stick had to put him down. I should be more disturbed that I'm leaning towards Frank Castle's word view instead of Matt Murdock. 

[Mars477]

Since I've never been on trial for murder and have only watched a few hours of Court TV, is there any remote possibility people would be able to have signs that say, "Frank Castle is a murderer" in the courtroom with the jury present? That took me right out of the scene.

Other than that, I'm really enjoying this season and the addition of The Punisher and Elecktra. I was also irritated at Matt because Elecktra never would have been sliced and diced if he hadn't distracted her with his moral code. And said bad ninja ended up dead anyway because Stick had to put him down. I should be more disturbed that I'm leaning towards Frank Castle's word view instead of Matt Murdock.

No. Also, there's no way in hell the trial would be so fast tracked, and the defendant wouldn't be dragged into the courtroom wearing prison orange.

And the problem with the Punisher isn't necessarily that he kills, but that he has no concept of tailoring a punishment to fit the crime. There's definitely an argument to be made that some major criminals are too powerful to take down with the rule of law (say, El Chapo), but there are nuances that are lost when Frank Castle just guns every criminal down indiscriminately.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Mars477

[FurryFury]

Since I've never been on trial for murder and have only watched a few hours of Court TV, is there any remote possibility people would be able to have signs that say, "Frank Castle is a murderer" in the courtroom with the jury present? That took me right out of the scene.

 

Other than that, I'm really enjoying this season and the addition of The Punisher and Elecktra. I was also irritated at Matt because Elecktra never would have been sliced and diced if he hadn't distracted her with his moral code. And said bad ninja ended up dead anyway because Stick had to put him down. I should be more disturbed that I'm leaning towards Frank Castle's word view instead of Matt Murdock. 

The show kinda presents Matt as a hypocrite and unreasonable about this no-kill stuff. I personally really don't like the "don't kill" stuff (which is why I prever Marvel to DC, DD seems to be the only MCU installment that makes a big deal out of this), but I could live with it if it was "don't murder" or "don't be trigger-happy". Because it's hard to suspend my disbelief that in a such a gritty show, Matt never kills people unintentionally in self-defense. I mean, I could kinda-sorta get such all-around powerful characters as The Flash or Supergirl being able to avoid killing, but this creed seems to simplistic and idealistic for this particular show. Especially because other characters, whom Matt wants to persuade not to kill the bad guys, don't even have any powers at all. And this moment with Elektra being injured because of his bullshit was a great illustraition of the flaws in his reasoning.

 

I want him to discuss this stuff with Jessica. Try to defend your no-kill rule against somebody like Kilgrave, dude.

Edited March 20, 2016 by FurryFury

[Ruby25]

Yeah, I agree. It seems like he would understand with all the shit they get into, that he'd sometimes end up killing people out of necessity.

[Bec]

Matt Murdock and Frank Castle's philosophies are two extremes that need to find a happy medium.

[JustaPerson]

I believe Foggy mentioned in a previous episode (or was it the same one?) that Reyes had pulled every political string she had to fast track the trial. So I suppose there is an explanation for that one.

[calliope1975]

I believe Foggy mentioned in a previous episode (or was it the same one?) that Reyes had pulled every political string she had to fast track the trial. So I suppose there is an explanation for that one.

 

I can hand wave the fast-tracked trial for dramatic purposes. I can easily suspend my disbelief on that. Not so much on the protesters in the courtroom. :D

[zxy556575]

In my somewhat limited viewing experience, the "good guys," in comics or otherwise, often kill people, they do it fighting in self defense or when protecting others. There may also be a scheme to take down some baddie, but that usually means capturing and bringing that person to justice (even though at times it also ends in death). It bothers me to see Matt beating up people for information like some low-level mafia knee-capper.

 

I also agree that his beatings must have resulted in a few deaths; he just never sticks around long enough to find out. I don't remember him calling ambulances for his victims or alerting the police to the whereabouts of severely beaten or comatose people.

 

Seeing as this is all fictional and I won't be called to account, at this point I'll more understanding of Frank's motivations than Matt's. Both are wholly intractable and don't care who they hurt or damage in their personal quests.

Edited March 20, 2016 by lordonia

[ulkis]

Unreasonableness despite every clue this season that Matt is keeping important secrets from her and then she finds a unexplained woman in his bed? Yeah, she needs to get a grip.

All of it was shady looking. The woman was just the capper. Many reasonable would have the same reaction.

 

Yup. Especially since if she had entered a bit earlier she would have seen him kneeling over her and praying for her. I was kinda hoping that she would have walked in on that, it would have more dramatic, heh.

 

And this moment with Elektra being injured because of his bullshit was a great illustraition of the flaws in his reasoning.

 

I think that was supposed to be the point though. I'm sure it's one of the reasons Matt himself ends up

going to town on the Hand minions in the last episode and why he has no objection to the Punisher doing so

Edited March 20, 2016 by ulkis

[Sakura12]

If Karen just saw the woman in Matt's bed wearing his shirt, I'd understand her anger, but she ignored the old guy eating an apple with a knife that was also in Matt's apartment, unless she thinks Matt is into that? 

 

Also isn't that how they met? Matt brought her back to his place to recover. Maybe he was doing the same for that girl. He did tell them he had a new client. 

[DEM]

A lot of the character beats in this ep were rushed or poorly fleshed out IMO.  The Karen Meets Elektra scene was just... not good. I don't even like Karen that much, but if I were to imagine her walking in on a woman who looks like death-warmed-over and some old dude, I wouldn't expect her to rush to judgement, flounce off, and refuse to talk about it.

 

Second, Matt distracts Elektra at a critical moment, resulting in her near-death, but that's glossed over with one line. Instead Elektra wants to come into The Light. No middle-ground, no discussion of tactical do's and don'ts, only Redeem Me!

 

Finally, Matt and Karen both sense that something is wrong before Frank takes the stand, but for reasons that are never given, Matt doesn't do anything. Conveniently, this was the only session of court in which Frank was not seated with his attorneys.

 

On the plus side, this was the only ep where the character work took me out of the story.  The eps have been good til now. The writer had a lot of ground to cover, but the script could have used another edit.

Edited March 21, 2016 by DEM

[FurryFury]

I never got the impression Karen was jealous - just pissed off about all the lies and tired of Matt's bullshit.

[driedfruit]

Karen seemed to be willfully avoiding the fact Matt was lying to her, or just shoving it aside as Matt being a secretive loner. But walking in on that bizarre scene was the moment when she got full blown confronted by his deceitfulness. Her reaction was more from the perspective of someone betrayed by a trusted friend/team member as opposed to romantic jealousy. 

 

Clancy Brown is awesome. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by driedfruit

[blueray]

 

Damn Karen are you going to ignore the old guy who was also in the apartment in you jealousy? You've reached Felicity Smoak levels of unreasonableness.

I was thinking that too. She arrives unannounced and he has an old man sitting in the living room and Matt is in the bedroom standing fully dressed. With a women who is in the bed (and from Karen's pov she could have also been dressed). Other then not telling her he had company there really was nothing going on.

[zxy556575]

I was thinking that too. She arrives unannounced and he has an old man sitting in the living room and Matt is in the bedroom standing fully dressed. With a women who is in the bed (and from Karen's pov she could have also been dressed). Other then not telling her he had company there really was nothing going on.

 

Matt also does the typical TV stutter: "Uh. It's not what you think! It's, I, uh, don't..."

 

How about using your words, Matt: "Karen, this is an old friend of mine, Stick. The woman asleep is Elektra, who's been injured."

 

I mean, Karen is an enormous busybody and that wouldn't have held her for long, but there was no reason for Matt to act all shifty-eyed and guilty.

[ulkis]

Technically, there was no reason he couldn't have said anything, but he was just startled.

I think Matt had reason to act shifty eyed and guilty. He was spending his nights with Elektra and while there was nothing physical going on, he was getting emotionally entangled again with her. Karen popping in at that moment was probably the other thing that made it manifest to him, in addition to Elektra's stabbing. And that realization was probably what made him stammer. If it was just business with Elektra be probably would have been able to toss off, hey this is Stick my old friend and this is Elektra, she got hurt and needed a place to crash.

Edited March 21, 2016 by ulkis

[Sakura12]

Now if Karen had walked in while Matt and Elektra were hanging around in their underwear like they were a few nights prior, I could see Karen jumping to conclusions from that. But she walked into a scene where three people, an older man, Matt and a woman in a bed were all fully dressed.

 

However Matt did act shifty eyed, probably because he had a right to be guilty since he's clearly still in love with Elektra. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Sakura12

[Bec]

Hell, when Stick and Matt rushed into the apartment and left the door open I was like "somebody shut the damn door!"

 

Nevermind Matt's friends walking in, what about the killer ninjas that are still after them? They can get in anyways, but let's not make it too easy, people.

[Grace284]

Hell, when Stick and Matt rushed into the apartment and left the door open I was like "somebody shut the damn door!"

 

Nevermind Matt's friends walking in, what about the killer ninjas that are still after them? They can get in anyways, but let's not make it too easy, people.

 

I do like the notion that Matt abandons any concern about his secret identity as soon as he gets in his apartment building. What self respecting superhero comes in their front door? His neighbours are probably fully aware that the weird blind guy upstairs is Daredevil but as long as he keeps the ninjas off their floor they don't mind.

[that one guy]

And the problem with the Punisher isn't necessarily that he kills, but that he has no concept of tailoring a punishment to fit the crime. There's definitely an argument to be made that some major criminals are too powerful to take down with the rule of law (say, El Chapo), but there are nuances that are lost when Frank Castle just guns every criminal down indiscriminately.

Agreed. There's a big difference between taking out Finn and taking out Grotto, for example.

 

Matt's just being a dick to Karen and I'm totally on her side in this. She's given him plenty of opportunity to be honest with her, she knows he's lying and keeping things from her, he knows she knows, and yet keeps doing it. He doesn't deserve her trust or the benefit of the doubt. This could have been a good thing for Matt, but he screwed it all up and has no one to blame but himself. I don't think she's being unreasonable at all. At this point in my life I'm going to take an unpleasant truth much better than being lied to again - been there, done that, streamed the whole show in one weekend on Netflix, not sticking around for Season 2.

 

And I can't deal with this "lying to people you love to protect them" crap on superhero shows anymore. You can't protect Karen, she's always going to find trouble because she goes looking for it on purpose. And she's not a child. And the thing that would keep her safest is to give her accurate information so she can correctly evaluate risk before acting.

 

And that's not the only dickish thing he's doing, his lackluster work ethic totally tanked a case that was important to his friends and the future of his firm. And although he doesn't realize it, he's basically told Karen to her face that what she did with Wesley was unforgivable.

 

Also - hey, show, why is the legal secretary doing all of the background research? Don't most law firms hire a P.I. to do that on a big case? Because I HAVE SOMEONE IN MIND. I'm just sayin' . . .

[DrLar]

Well as said, Nelson and Murdock firm is broke, they should use that money Elektra put on the bank, and Karen, was her first thought that Elektra was Matt's lover? she's half dead in the bed and didn't ask about the old blind guy either..

 

Well Matt did kill somebody in S1, in self defense, and most of the baddies want to kill him anyway..

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well Matt did kill somebody in S1, in self defense, and most of the baddies want to kill him anyway..

 

Yeah, Nobu. Shit. I can't remember which episode, so

Nobu isn't dead after all. So Matt, so far, hasn't killed anyone yet.

[benteen]

Why is the legal secretary doing most of the research?  Because Nelson and Murdoch have no money.

 

Vincent D'Onfrio, Clancy Brown and Scott Glen all in the same episode as guest stars?  Awesome.

 

I really enjoyed the courtroom scenes.

 

I couldn't help but notice that Jon Bernthal in a black suit and no tie looks a lot like Jim Caviezel in Person of Interest.

[FurryFury]

Nobu isn't dead after all. So Matt, so far, hasn't killed anyone yet.

 

Technically, he did kill Nobu (twice, even) - he just got better both times until Stick has finished him for good Highlander-style :)

 

I couldn't help but notice that Jon Bernthal in a black suit and no tie looks a lot like Jim Caviezel in Person of Interest.

 

And thankfully doesn't put me to sleep half the time.

Edited March 21, 2016 by FurryFury

[JustaPerson]

I don't think Matt's employing the whole "don't tell her to protect her" thing. I think he just doesn't want to tell her. I mean technically he didn't even tell Foggy -- Foggy saw everything and there was no other choice but to tell him. And Foggy's his best friend of over 10 years! 

[Sakura12]

Yeah, I think Matt never wanted to tell anyone he was Daredevil. Even when Elektra was handing him his suit he was trying to deny it. That part of his life was his, and he wanted to keep that way. 

[Grace284]

I don't think Matt's employing the whole "don't tell her to protect her" thing. I think he just doesn't want to tell her. I mean technically he didn't even tell Foggy -- Foggy saw everything and there was no other choice but to tell him. And Foggy's his best friend of over 10 years! 

 

I think he likes the idea of being a lone wolf, and he really wants to avoid having to justify himself to people when he finds it hard enough to justify everything to himself. I think with Karen in particular he likes the way she sees him and a part of him so wants to be that person for her, and telling her would force him to let go of that. He hasn't collected enough enemies yet for this to be about protecting anyone.

[tennisgurl]

I really missed Fisk. And Vanessa and Wesley and the whole gang. So seeing Fisk pop into the story again made me really excited. Now that Frank is in jail, I assumed they were going to focus on the ninja/Elektra stuff, but maybe Fisk shows up again to be the new bad guy? Or one of them anyway. 

 

I really hate seeing Foggy and Matt in such a bad place. I love this season, but the lack of scenes between them (and scenes with them plus Karen) really sucks.  They added a lot of warmth and lightness to all the dark and grittiness, and I really miss it. Plus, I felt like we got to know a lot more about Matt's headspace with them. It feels like he has been more distant from the audience since the Elektra stuff started. Maybe thats the point? He is becoming more isolated, and is getting farther away from his "normal" life, and is getting pulled into this more fantastical stuff? I would just like to see more of what is going on with him right now.  

[thuganomics85]

Wilson Motherfucking Fisk!  I figured it was heading that direction once the cop approached Frank, and the more they dragged out his walk in the prison, the more I knew it had to be him, because it would be a huge disappointment if he didn't.  I so can't wait to see this unholy alliance between Fisk and Frank.  I'm guessing Fisk is going to help track down the guys who are truly responsible for Frank's family, but in turn, he will try to use Frank to help himself get out of prison.  Not sure how in the hell he will do it, but if anyone can, it would be Fisk.

 

That said, certainly won't leave out Stick's return, especially coming at the nick of time and saving Matt's sorry ass.  Not to mention Elektra's life, after Matt stupidly distracted her.  I know Stick is a grouchy asshole, but if there was ever an episode Matt needed to be chewed out in the way Scott Glenn can, it was certainly this one. And it's revealed that Elektra was working for him this entire time and that their real opposition is this Hand group, who have some kind of nefarious plan prepared for Hell's Kitchen.

 

Matt continues to push Foggy and Karen back even further, and he has no one to blame but himself.  Yes, Karen probably should have figured out there was more going on then an affair, since Elektra looked weak and Stick was hanging around for no reason, but the big issue with her I think is that here Matt is doing something shifty with two people she has no idea who they are, all while he's saddling her and Foggy with the biggest case of their lives, barely helping in any way, and just being generally shifty and distant.  It's just enough for her, and I don't blame her for venting, even if she doesn't have all the facts.  Because the only reason she doesn't have all the facts is because Matt keeps lying to her and hiding stuff.  He's just handling this the worst way possible.

 

Always great to see Clancy Brown, even if I wanted to refer to his character as General Eiling for the entire scene.

 

Elektra picks Matt over Stick, but still clearly has ways to go over the whole "not killing" part of Matt's code.  Loved it ending with her asking if he still wanted her, all while covered in blood and grinning like a crazy person.  Elodie Yung somehow looked creepy and hot at the same time in that moment.

 

Anyway, back to my normal "Fisk is back, baby!" celebration...

[Actionmage]

Just binged eps 5-8. Wow and damn.

 

If I was Karen, I might just wash the whole trio- Matt, Frank and Foggy.  Matt for being a secret-keeping, shifty, big talk dude.  Frank for seeming to want the firm's help, but screwing them at every turn for no obvious reason.  Foggy?  He might get back together with Matt and continue to be around the edges of Matt's dramz.  

 

As a comic book reader, it feels like

maybe they are setting up the Elektra story with Punisher instead of Bullseye and through that setting Karen in Fisk's sights as work and pleasure- the Born Again story, only for next season. But that's just my take. I could be very off. I still have five episodes to watch.

 

I just wish that by the end of this season Foggy has more confidence in himself.  Eldon Henson has been nailing  Foggy this season even more than last season.  I do like that the reasons Foggy doesn't like Elektra are in how Matt changes around her and not for the better.  I get that she might be Matt's first love, so she's always going to be special/ mean something to Matt. Yet, he seems ( to me) more violent when he's following up leads or looking  for something.

 

Don't get me wrong- I like Elodie Yung as Elektra and she (&/or her stuntwoman) are badass. The closing scene of this episode kinda summed her up for me: She loves Matt and violence in about the same measure.  She can do the moneyed, bored-little-rich-bitch, like at the fancy party and the business meeting, but when the fan is shat upon, there will be blood and she is okay that it is everyone else's.

 

Also? Matt took a damn arrow through his freakin' chest! Where is the Claire Signal?  Just... the town was perfectly fine until the damn ninjas moved in. 

 

Vincent D'Onfrio, Clancy Brown and Scott Glen all in the same episode as guest stars?  Awesome.

 

 

Yes, yes it was indeed! The last two episodes had the musical "bomp" with the "Special Guest Star" credit and have said "no shit!" each time.  It's almost like a 'Oh, did we forget to tell y'all that this person's in the episode? Sorry not sorry.'  I hope that happens once or twice more.

[benteen]

While he's rightly been upset with Matt over the way he's handled the case, I thought Foggy acted like a raging asshole when he blamed him for Frank's testimony exploding and Karen wasn't much better there.

[Actionmage]

While he's rightly been upset with Matt over the way he's handled the case, I thought Foggy acted like a raging asshole when he blamed him for Frank's testimony exploding and Karen wasn't much better there.

 

IA, but Foggy is looking at his dream of being a lawyer, doing good for the defenseless, and doing it with his best friend thisclose to being flushed away by a more-than-likely dirty DA with political leanings. On top of that there is the client Matt lobbied very hard for Foggy to agree to help with, who just blew up the absolute last chance to keep said client anything close to safe, even in prison. To also find out that Matt's "crazy ex" was involved in destroying a way to take down a dirty DA?  Yeah, Foggy was on fumes and adrenaline. If/When he calms down, Foggy might be able to see both sides and talk to Matt more calmly, but as with the vigilante thing, still be upset.  Foggy might be more mad that Karen might leave due to Matt's actions and seeming inactions.  Karen is fantastic at her job and doing about two or three other jobs as well, not just their office secretary.

 

Karen, though? I'm not sure what exactly was fueling her. Yeah, the apartment scene, the disappearing from the trial prep and opening arguments, and all the damn lying. But, not unlike Foggy, she probably also was angry on behalf of Foggy and Frank. Frank, for being the client who barely got Matt's attention after Matt making a big deal about helping the man. Foggy, for being Matt's best friend and treating him so shabbily during a trial that had such huge consequences for the firm if things went south, which they did. Yet, I don't  think to this point, the writing has sorted out exactly what set Karen off the most.  I hope she gets a chance to lay it out for us, either to Matt himself or to Foggy.  Maybe even Marcie?

[Kel Varnsen]

I can hand wave the fast-tracked trial for dramatic purposes. I can easily suspend my disbelief on that. Not so much on the protesters in the courtroom. :D

What about the fact that Matt was testifying directly to the jury?

Seeing Fisk was cool, although if he was in the same jail as Frank, does that mean he is still waiting for his case to go to trial? Because otherwise shouldn't he be in prison. And if the DA is proven corrupt what happens to kingpin's case?

[WendyCR72]

And if the DA is proven corrupt what happens to kingpin's case?

 

Maybe that part will tie in to how Fisk will be released. (Because, come on, we know he will!)

[millennium]

Given that the other heroic figures in this drama (Punisher and Electra) are attired somewhat normally (notwithstanding the mask Electra stole from a Bazooka Joe cartoon), Matt by contrast is looking a bit absurd in his Daredevil getup.   Like the guy who thought it was a costume party.

 

Hopefully this episode puts a stake through Matt and Karen's relationship.   It was trite, tropish and boring.  

 

Elodie Yung is a great presence.   Can't help but think she would have made a worthy Talia Al Ghul.

 

The Chaste, the Hand, a pit forty-stories deep ... this story is finally getting interesting (although I have enjoyed the interludes with The Punisher).

Edited March 24, 2016 by millennium

[millennium]

I really missed Fisk. And Vanessa and Wesley and the whole gang.

 

I'd sacrifice Karen in a heartbeat if it meant we could get Wesley back.

[Primetimer]

And Matt Murdock finds out things have just gone way off the chain.

Read the story

[Danny Franks]

Stick to the rescue. Yay. I guess. He's still a colossal asshole, of course. And of course he knows Elektra. I'm not really keen on the supernatural Eastern mysticism stuff, with the Hand. But I guess it was inevitable, especially after the tease last season. I like the confidence of the writers, taking so long to develop this story.

Also: Too many ninjas. They get boring very quickly.

I figure Elektra might die at some point, because she's famous for it, but I knew it wouldn't be from a lingering wound. Especially not this early in the season. And I doubt the ability of the Hand to bring people back from the dead was mentioned ed by some coincidence.

I wasn't expecting Clancy Brown, so that was cool. And hearing the account of Frank's heroism was cool, but unfortunately talking about how deadly a soldier he is might not play quite as well as they think. But loved the bit when he made Reyes look like an idiot.

I really wish Matt was actually involved in the court case. They still separate him from the rest of the cast too much. But it is interesting how much ambiguity and moral confusion they're putting into the case. Still think Frank Castle deserves punishment, though. Otherwise, what's the point of the the legal system?

Karen's getting too invested, for her own reasons, which explains why she's so angry with Matt seemingly not caring. Finding another woman in Matt's bed obviously didn't help. All his secret chickens have come home to roost, with her and with Foggy.

Matt trying to stand apart from the Punisher and Stick is hypocritical, but that's totally deliberate. He's a lawyer who beats people up at night. The core concept of the character is hypocrisy, which is why Frank Miller made him a Catholic (that's Miller's own view of Catholicism, not necessarily mine). I like that the show isn't shying away from it. But I do think that the fact Frank kills with no mercy or compunction is a difference between vigilante and criminal.

I didn't pay attention to the credits, so Fisk appearing was a big, very cool, shock.

[AudienceofOne]

So, is the trial over? Is it still going? Was there a verdict? Should the answers to those questions be obvious?

The Hand? The chaste? Immortal ninjas? I feel like I'm in a bad comic. Oh...wait....

[david gideon]

IN addition to the other preposterous legal procedures mentioned, they were conducting key parts of the trial without the defendant present: picking a jury, arguing legal points, etc. A good legal consultant would spot that stuff in a second.