S06.E14: Twice As Far

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

I can't take these long winded speeches anymore.

 

Amen. Glenn's monologues to Enid were the limit. I was thinking if Denise hadn't made them all stand there forever while she speechified, they would have gotten away.

 

Eugene! He not only found his balls but gives one hell of a dick bite.

 

Rosita and "Stroganoff" Spencer: Made me think of Carol Pope and the Payola's "I'd rather you than an empty bed." It can't be anything else.

 

Abe, you did well with the ambush. I still hate you though. But maybe he'll be different with Sasha? Gonna be a little awkward around town, isn't it?

 

I really liked Denise. She seemed like a real person and the arrow shocked me. Daryl was very fond of her - he actually squeezed out a few words of praise for finding the shop -  and I think her dying hit him hard.

 

All in all, I enjoyed this ep more than I have any in a very VERY long time.

 

OH, and Morgan? Still being super helpful I see - practicing his Hai Karate moves and building a jail. I'm sure he could have thought of worse ways to waste time and resources if he just tried a little harder.

Edited March 21, 2016 by AngelaHunter

[jaigurudeva]

And THAT'S why you don't let the one doctor in your post-apocalyptic community out on dangerous supply runs! -J. Walter Weatherman, probably.

[Rosiejuliemom]

If Eugene's bullet idea pays off he's worth this weight in mullet gold!!

 

Eugene's mullet is worth it's weight in mullet gold. That swinging-curtain is glorious.

[ShadowSixx]

Daryl just really doesn't have much luck with people that he gets close to or is fond of ends up dying or running away. Merle is dead, Beth is dead, Denise is dead, and Carol has run away. 

[shanndee]

...

 

Why was Dwight's face burnt? Did Daryl do that?

 

...

 

I think Dwight is clearly with the Negan group. The scheme he was trying to enforce sounded exactly like what the Hilltop said Negan would do. Kill one just terrify the rest into doing their bidding. But what changed him? He still seemed like a half decent individual when Daryl saved him.

 

...

 

Meanwhile, what is up with the Saviors? Their behavior is just so unreasonable. Wouldn't it be easier and less dangerous to just stop being murderous assholes? How many people have died because they keep messing with Rick's crew? Why haven't they figured out that sometimes you and your friends just get blown up for their troubles?

 

I feel like Dwight and the two girls were running away from the Saviours to do their own thing. They turned on Daryl, then I think the Saviours found them again. I think Dwight was punished for daring to try to leave the group (remember the woman who had her finger cut off for daring to go after her boyfriend against orders?). I feel like Negan's people are not a forgiving bunch. Once you drink the "we are all Negan" Kool-Aid, there is no room at all for independent thought.

 

If the Saviours stopped being murderous overlords they would actually have to work for a living. Doing your own hard work to run a camp is probably far more taxing than intimidating groups who are physically weaker than you.

Edited March 21, 2016 by shanndee

[SimoneS]

If the Saviours stopped being murderous overlords they would actually have to work for a living. Doing your own hard work to run a camp is probably far more taxing than intimidating groups who are physically weaker than you.

 

The Saviors just want to smoke their weed and chill. Ha. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Eugene! He not only found his balls but gives one hell of a dick bite.

 

Was like a dog with a bone.  Nothing short of a crowbar was unlocking those jaws.

Rosita and "Stroganoff" Spencer: Made me think of Carol Pope and the Payola's "I'd rather you than an empty bed." It can't be anything else.

 

Surprised he didn't ask for a hand in making it.............

Edited March 21, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[AngelaHunter]

It sounds like Carol pulled a Berger on not just Tobin, but kind of the whole town? "I'm sorry. I can't. Don't hate me."

 

Yes, but Carrie deserved it. Tobin didn't.

 

I wonder how come Morgan did not choose to leave also?

 

Morgan is able to while away his days with his building blocks (and not to build anything usefull), tools, posing with his stick, doing his zen shit and judging people. Why would he ever leave that life?  IIRC, he's never done a single thing in Alexandria that's not useless or harmful.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I was hoping that either Denise or Dwight would have told Daryl - hehe, "Triple Ds" [/12 year old] - that its quite difficult trying to have a meaningful conversation with someone when 'eye contact' means more like staring into a grease-caked hair curtain.

[DropTheSoap]

Just what the TV landscape needs right now! Another dead lesbian!

At least Rosita lives to fight another day. I like her alot.

Carol leaving seemed kinda...random? Like, what lead up to her deciding to leave? Why now?

Exactly what I thought. Oh look, dead lesbian trope, yet again.

I like Rosita. Denise was right. She's strong and can be alone; she just needs to know that about herself.

Carol was having issues recently. Surprised, and not surprised.

[nachomama]

I don't think Carol is leaving quite the way we think she's leaving. I think she's going rogue. She can't maintain the normal, baking cookies and wearing cardigans-much less boyfriend-girlfriend stuff, then turn around and be all stabby stabby. I don't think she's done killing. It's just easier if she doesn't have to think about people she cares for. It's still not healthy but I do think she's going out to get the Negans of the world but as a solo.

I liked Dr. Denise. And I think a bit of Eugene's dumping of Abraham was because of Rosita. Abe didn't do right by Rosie and Eugene will be sad to miss dolphin smooth porn. Ew

[melanie]

Didn't Denise just tell Tara a couple of episodes ago that she couldn't go out because she was needed by the community?  What changed?  I don't get it at all.  

I also would have appreciated a little bit of conversation in this episode about what happened previously.  Do they all think they killed Negan and this is over?  I really would like to know.

I get really tired of the writing.  When I hear people say things it is like they are in riddles and I wonder if people actually lose their ability to speak clearly in the ZA.  

Rick deserved an explanation from Carol about her decision to leave.  I get that he would have tried to talk her out of it, but now they are going to go find her and nothing good will come of that.  

[magdalene]

Oh, crap. I liked Denise.  This sucks.  

[forum4idiots]

i must confess....i laughed when that arrow shot threw denise giving that "moral lesson" speech. 

 

carol......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

so i'm guessing the black jedi will go after carol.

 

chris hardwick and the beard....yum. ;)

 

hmmmm, i think we might have changed their minds about killing carol mid season......me thinks carol will go be the founder of another community and will probably ultimately be a great ally to rick's group.

Edited March 21, 2016 by lovebug1975

[Anela]

Carol is clearly not being logical. She is having some type of mental break. Also, too many people who watch the show act like it is easy to kill people. Unless you are some sort of psychopath, at some point killing people would take a toll on your psyche. I expect that Carol will find her way as will Morgan. Gabriel and Rick have gone through this also.

I think it's normal that it's hitting her again, as well, the way it did when she had to kill Lizzie. 

 

I'm glad they showed both Eugene and Denise struggling to kill a walker. We've grown so used to seeing people just stab them in the head, or shoot them, that they make it look too easy. Seeing someone struggle, looks more realistic to me. But then that would be me, at least for a while. ;)

I'm sad we lost Denise, but also figured we would lose her, after the new doctor showed up. 

 

Poor Daryl. :( Carol disappearing, too... I would like to think she'd show up and help in the finale, or just show up and be okay, but I'm not so sure this time. 

[forum4idiots]

darrel was right....don't use the train tracks.  go the long way around.

[Jack Kerouac]

My God, I hate the way Eugene and Abraham speak. Individually it's bad enough but both of them together is unbearable. And they both get to live another day while Denise dies?

  

Can't stand Denise and was glad to see her go. I actually laughed.

Another woman dies, for Daryl to have Man Pain.

Kudos the the above poster, calling out the Dead Lesbian trope.

Did Merritt Weaver get a new series?

  

Can't stand that term, 'Man Pain.' Like male character's emotional pain isn't worthy of attention just because they are men. There is no equivalent dismissive term for female pain.

Meanwhile, what is up with the Saviors? Their behavior is just so unreasonable. Wouldn't it be easier and less dangerous to just stop being murderous assholes? How many people have died because they keep messing with Rick's crew? Why haven't they figured out that sometimes you and your friends just get blown up for their troubles?

I know, right? They've lost like 60 people now. How many people do they have? How many have to die before someone gets the brilliant idea that CDB aren't to be screwed with?

[Desiree]

What i want to know is why they just didn't drive the truck down the train tracks? Did I miss something that would have prevented them from doing so? yes the couldn't go around the tree but the tracks looked pretty clear and flat. If Daryl was have such a hard time with the stick, let Dr Denise drive it. 

 

Another talkie episode after a few action packed ones. Normally I don't mind these but I'm in the beginning of flu and had a hard time keeping my eyes open. 

 

Carol is my favorite character so I will miss her. But she needs some kind of evolution that she can't get at Alexandria. She'll be back and even more bad ass then before. 

[Dobian]

So Denise saved Carl after he lost his eye and then got shot through her eye.  I guess that's an eye for an eye then?

 

I had a feeling that Denise wasn't going to be a long-term character.  I figured from the start that Merrit Weaver just likes Walking Dead and wanted to do a season for kicks before going on to something else.  She's really too good to be a bit player in a large ensemble show.

 

The dark clouds are coming again, I wonder how many Saviors are still out there?

[peach]

I loved that Eugene stuck it to Abraham a little bit over throwing people away when you don't "require their services" anymore. 

 

As foolish as I think Morgan has been, and while I don't agree that they should lock up violent, dangerous people instead of killing them, a jail cell would have been handier in containing flying ninja Jesus.  There are still moments when a person might need to be securely set aside.  And I appreciated the fact that Morgan phrased it as giving Rick choices, instead of saying it was to take the choice of killing away.

 

Poor Carol.  She needs a spa vacation.

The whole Denise situation was stupid, so it had less impact for me.  It was stupid for her to go, stupid of them to let her, stupid of her to loudly monologue on the tracks, etc.  I always roll my eyes when they converse about "which meds" to take.  If you find meds, take them all.  But yeah, those were magic backbacks to fit all that stuff.  Upside, Daryl is now also reunited with his crossbow.  I have more emotional attachment to his crossbow than half the cast.

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, I guess Daryl was right to have taken the long rode to begin with.  Should have stuck to your guns, Daryl!  Then again, if you didn't, you might have not found Eugene again, so he's probably happy you did at least.

 

Had a feeling Denise's ticket was punched as soon as they introduced a friendly neighborhood doctor from Hilltop.  There can be only one!  I get wanting to prove yourself and everything, but it was dangerous as hell to have your only doctor out on an away mission (same thing with Star Trek!), and it totally cost them this time. Too bad I never really cared about the character or anything.  I bet Tara's reaction isn't going to be a good one if/when she comes back.

 

Eugene though can apparently bite a dick!  That's one way to take down an opponent.  Even though Dwight got away, depending on how much damaged Eugene caused, he might end up wishing he was dead!  Assuming these were more Saviors though, they continue to be unimpressive.  The score count is like, what 100 to 1, Alexandria?

 

Abraham finally confesses his feelings to Sasha more or less, and she invites him in.  Bleh, you could do better Sasha.  Oh, well.  Have fun and be prepared for bizarre dirty talk like "dingleberry" and other words Abe apparently didn't grow out of after he was twelve.  And if the relationship does go sour, prepare to have him give you the shittiest break-up speech like he did with Rosita.

 

Really doubt Carol is gone for good.  I know she had a big speech and everything, but I was too busy wondering if she really had Daryl bury Denise by himself, while she just stood there with a shovel like an asshole. 

[Tony]

Denise just annoyed me this episode, so I was glad to see her killed off. What the heck did she expect to find in that stupid cooler? It's obviously going to be either drinks or spoiled food? This isn't some special cooler in a CDC van with valuable meds here. She's just too dumb to live.

[mornnoch]

Carol is a badass not a psychopath. We saw her struggling after every kill. After Karen and David kicking the water container at the prison. After Lizzie she confessed to Tyreese killing his girlfriend and she was ready to be killed by him. After Terminus she prepared for leaving the group. After the wolves she started smoking. And then Morgan ...

I don't like her decision but a suffering Carol isn't a surprise.

[mornnoch]

Everybody should be trained and has experience in killing walkers. They could be everywhere, even in Alexandria when someone dies.

 

Making runs with one inexperienced Alexandrian and 2 of the best fighters is reasonable. We only see the runs where something (bad) happens, but they're out regularly.

[nachomama]

I think in her head, Carol won't be responsible for any more innocent lives. If she goes after negan, it's only herself to worry about. No Sophias, sams or Lizzie's. Not to mention no mrs Neidermeyer, she won't have the guilt if she isn't protecting loved ones and she knows anyone who wants do kill her is no more than Walker meat to her.

She will come to realize that she needs the help. You take the good. You take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life, or dead.

[suomi]

So Denise saved Carl after he lost his eye and then got shot through her eye.  I guess that's an eye for an eye then?

 

And you didn't even offer to show yourself out ...

[CletusMusashi]

Dear Writers:

If you do not stop making Carol hurt, I will stab you all in the head with a trench knife. And I will light your bodies on fire.

And if you are very, very lucky, I will do it in that order.

Edited March 21, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[Andromeda]

Certain Alexandrians should never be going out on runs. As their only doctor, Denise is one of them. Even Eugene shouldn't be trying to be bad ass beyond self protection, he has brains and plans, like Abraham pointed out, and is valuable for what he can contribute along those lines. But I can see why he might need to see the metal shop for himself.

The dick bite seemed unrealistic to me. Dwight was holding a gun, and he has 2 hands, but he made no move to pull Eugene off of him. Also, how easy is it to bite through jeans like that? (Nope, never actually tried...) But it was an entertaining scene.

I'm very bummed about losing Denise. I related to her as a nerd.

[magdalene]

It seems Carol suffered a break-down, she is not thinking straight. You know how they tell you to not make life changing decisions after you suffered a big loss or shock? It's been one trauma and crisis after the other for these people. I hope Carol gets the chance to hunker down and catch her breath and come to the conclusion that going at it alone is not the answer. But knowing this show...

[Andromeda]

Good for Morgan building a jail. Seems like a reasonable thing for Alexandria to have. Not every crime requires an instant death sentence, RICK. You'd think a former Sheriff would understand the value of a holding cell.

[Reghan]

Eugene bit some balls and Denise bit the dust.....Carol's balls seemed to have shrunk....

[Happy Harpy]

I liked Denise, and the brother/sister bond between Denise and Daryl, but (for once) she was on top of my list of suspected goners, so I wasn't surprised. TV  characters don't have the exclusivity of stupid moves, or the real world would be a perfect place, but indeed, Denise is their only doctor and I had to suspend disbelief. Now, if she had to go because someone had been hurt and needed urgent care, it would have been a different story.

 

One detail I liked about the repetitive scenes was, weirdly, how Gabriel seemed more and more at ease with his role of sentinel. I liked his little smile.

 

I appreciate Eugene's evolution, how he went Beecher on Dwight, and how he was smarter than Sasha, but I still don't like him as a "person" and I don't care about him or his relationships. So I didn't care for a whole lot of the episode.

OTOH I like Sasha and I don't like when women I like make dumb moves. I used to like Abraham but I find him to be a caricature of himself now, and he's definitely not boyfriend material imo. Honey, the way he treated her is the way he's going to treat you, once the novelty wears off or once he finds his next soulmate.

 

I thought that Spencer was kind of sweet. At least he seems to respect Rosita in the sense that he doesn't only expect her to warm his bed. The couple-itis outbreak is still going strong, though.

 

Carol has a lot to sort out and imo, her leaving the group in order to do so was long in the making, as other posters pointed. Imo, she tried to cope with her trauma through normative "normal" (Betty Crocker, boyfriend) and found out it didn't work out for her. 

Michonne survived alone  and I'm quite sure that Carol is able to do so, too. I'm sure there's a plan here, hopefully character-driven as well as plot-driven. 

[CletusMusashi]

Can somebody please explain to me how suggesting that they (finally) manufacture their own gunpowder is thinking "outside the box?"

Also, why the hell are Daryl and Rosita so "It's too risky! We can't open a car with one zombie in it!"

They do realize that it's probably only been dead for like a few days or weeks or months, right? If it's in an intact car, it's probably a ZA "survivor" who got bit, and may very well still have food, weapons, and ammo in there with them. The odds of it being somebody who died on their way back from Comicon two years ago with nothing in the car except for a Bruce Campbell autograph are pretty slim. 

Just break the damned window, stab the head, and then open the door. It's not brain surgery! Sort of.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Can somebody please explain to me how suggesting that they (finally) manufacture their own gunpowder is thinking "outside the box?"

Also, why the hell are Daryl and Rosita so "It's too risky! We can't open a car with one zombie in it!"

They do realize that it's probably only been dead for like a few days or weeks or months, right? If it's in an intact car, it's probably a ZA "survivor" who got bit, and may very well still have food, weapons, and ammo in there with them. The odds of it being somebody who died on their way back from Comicon two years ago with nothing in the car except for a Bruce Campbell autograph are pretty slim. 

Just break the damned window, stab the head, and then open the door. It's not brain surgery! Sort of.

 

They just did it the way they did just to hear this soon-to-be classic one-liner:  "Yuck  *quick huff of self-derisional laughter*  I puked on my glasses."

Edited March 21, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ShadowSixx]

Eugene though can apparently bite a dick!  That's one way to take down an opponent.  Even though Dwight got away, depending on how much damaged Eugene caused, he might end up wishing he was dead!  Assuming these were more Saviors though, they continue to be unimpressive.  The score count is like, what 100 to 1, Alexandria?

 

Negan's group just sucks. This time they're retreating because they can't take on two people with their guns down, one man hiding and one on his knees, because once again all they want to do is TALK. Dwight straight up killed Denise so why just stop there and kill Rosita, Eugene, and Daryl? They want to be lead back to ASZ instead of possibly just finding and casing the place themselves. So dumb. Just like that dumb Mole Woman who wanted Maggie to tell her where ASZ is so she can go there to escape instead of finding it herself. This group hasn't learned anything from the biker gang being blown to rice krispies, the girl group being killed and Carol burning the men along with most of them being killed at the security base. Why are they wasting so much time talking?? Negan's group is just flat out pathetic. Unless Negan is purposely sending out the dumb ones and keeping the badasses for later. 

[Nashville]

Eugene, you are level two and you can bite a dick.

Abraham must be working off a different system than I learned.

Dick-biting would be WAAAAAYYYYY past second base.

  

Who patched up Eugene and who knew which anti-biotics to give him?!

 

Rosita, I expect; she demonstrated basic field medic skills more than once before the group reached Alexandria.

 

I think Dwight is clearly with the Negan group. The scheme he was trying to enforce sounded exactly like what the Hilltop said Negan would do. Kill one just terrify the rest into doing their bidding. But what changed him? He still seemed like a half decent individual when Daryl saved him.

 

Meanwhile, what is up with the Saviors? Their behavior is just so unreasonable. Wouldn't it be easier and less dangerous to just stop being murderous assholes? How many people have died because they keep messing with Rick's crew? Why haven't they figured out that sometimes you and your friends just get blown up for their troubles?

Given Dwight&Co.'s previous behavior when Daryl first encountered them + tonight's episode, my personal suspicion is Dwight is heading up his own little crew of Savior defectors.

  

Didn't Denise just tell Tara a couple of episodes ago that she couldn't go out because she was needed by the community?  What changed?  I don't get it at all.  

What changed was Denise's level of honesty with herself. Right before she got to the point - so to speak - of her monologue, Denise had admitted her earlier statements to Tara were simply an excuse/dodge to cover Denise's own fear of going outside the ASZ walls.

  

darrel was right....don't use the train tracks.  go the long way around.

They should have listened to Supertramp, and took the long way home.

[SyncMaster]

When Daryl decided to take the long way on the road--I didn't understand his aversion to following the tracks unless it was due to his time with the Claimers--and then Denise followed him I thought Rosita was going to wind up in a heap of trouble since she followed the tracks by herself.  I'm glad that didn't happen--not then anyway.

 

Eugene is the man!  For a short while I thought his cowardice might have overcome his recent advancement towards not needing a caretaker while out and about.  Then I figured he was planning a move of some type but when he made that move I thought to myself, "Self?  Eugene is the man!"

 

Right? I was wondering how they could let their ONLY doctor leave on a supply run. Not only that, she has NO experience in the scary zombie-infested outside world. That's just dumb. It would have made more sense if Dr. Denise ran away and they had to go fetch her back. Rosita and Daryl should know that she's too valuable to allow outside.

 

And THAT'S why you don't let the one doctor in your post-apocalyptic community out on dangerous supply runs! -J. Walter Weatherman, probably.

 

Until Alexandria institutes a rule that prevents people from leaving the settlement based on their importance to the settlement or some other criteria I wouldn't think an adult could be prevented from leaving whenever he or she wanted for any reason that he or she chose.  If such a rule were put into effect then Alexandria would be on its way to becoming similar to Woodbury but without the meet-your-neighbor gatherings and I don't think Michonne would be in favor of that.

 

What i want to know is why they just didn't drive the truck down the train tracks? Did I miss something that would have prevented them from doing so? yes the couldn't go around the tree but the tracks looked pretty clear and flat. If Daryl was have such a hard time with the stick, let Dr Denise drive it.

 

I think driving down the tracks would be far too risky.  The truck's wheels would have to ride on the ties which means the underside of the truck would be straddling one of the rails.  If anything happened there might not be enough clearance between the truck's underside and the rail and that could disable the truck.  Then they'd really be up a creek.

 

I was surprised that Daryl couldn't shift that old shit properly.  I would have guessed that he and Merle would have driven a lot of old beaters like that truck way back when.

 

Glad they went back for Denise,I was thinking Tara would end up finding her and that would have been awful.

 

I didn't think Tara would ever have just run across Denise's body but I was wondering if they were just going to leave her body out there and I was glad when Daryl and Carol were shown burying her.

 

Who patched up Eugene and who knew which anti-biotics to give him?!

 

I guessed that it might have been Rosita.  She was helping Denise at times.  For instance, when the group went to find those parts for the solar array--when Noah was killed--and Tara came back unconscious Rosita was helping out.

 

Tara's girlfriend dies and she doesn't even get a scene?

 

(Also, I believe Tara's on the supply run now, right? Wouldn't that explain her absence? She was going to be gone two weeks. Or had that already happened?)

 

That's what I remember: Tara and Heath were going on a two week run and they left right after the invasion of that outpost of Negan-folk.

 

I wanted to smack Austin when he was trying to define the relationship with Rosita. Just be happy a woman that hot and that capable is consenting to have sexual contact with you.

 

Mmmmm, Rosita, Rosita.

[FiveByFive]

I'm sort of sad Denise is gone.  I mean, the actress was great and has always been great in anything she does but sometimes the character grated on my nerves.  As someone else said, I liked her in small doses.  I also figured she was a goner once she finally got the guts to go out there with the gang. Plus, while I know this is a show where "anyone" can die -- it shouldn't have been her time just yet.  

Technically it should have been Abraham that died ... I think and it would have made more sense since we really don't need him and he serves no purpose.

 

However, as everyone else has said, A DOCTOR IS VERY IMPORTANT AND THERE ARE ONLY TWO THAT YOU KNOW OF SO DON'T LET THEM GO RUNNING AROUND!

 

This is the second time they let someone go out that shouldn't have gone out.  Sure, Maggie is pregnant and can make her own decisions but don't act like people won't feel the need to keep an extra eye on her or do anything to get her back if something happens to her.  Furthermore, they knew Denise wasn't ready and add to that the fact that they need her (Carl would have been dead without her so she is good for something ...) and they still let her go traipsing around. It's so stupid and silly.  I bet if they found a scientist they would let them go picking berries, unarmed, alone in the dark for crying out loud. 

 

Negan's group just sucks. This time they're retreating because they can't take on two people with their guns down, one man hiding and one on his knees, because once again all they want to do is TALK. Dwight straight up killed Denise so why just stop there and kill Rosita, Eugene, and Daryl? They want to be lead back to ASZ instead of possibly just finding and casing the place themselves. So dumb. 

 

They do suck but the talking and threats could be more valuable than shooting them.  If they could punk them into admitting where they lived that's great. That saves time.  If they just shot them right there then they'd get no information and keep having to wander around.  Also the only people that know where ASZ is are the people from there plus Jesus and the show gives us the impression that while people go on runs, bunches of them aren't leaving at once.  So unless you find that particular group while wandering around - and get them to admit where it is - you'd be hard pressed to find the place easily.

 

PS. I still hate Morgan. 

[scrb]

Now they're worrying about bullets? They spray bullets every chance they get.

Eugene didn't spit out and cough enough after his little diversion. Or was it just a diversionary tactic?

[BellyLaughter]

Negan's group just sucks. This time they're retreating because they can't take on two people with their guns down, one man hiding and one on his knees, because once again all they want to do is TALK. Dwight straight up killed Denise so why just stop there and kill Rosita, Eugene, and Daryl? They want to be lead back to ASZ instead of possibly just finding and casing the place themselves. So dumb. Just like that dumb Mole Woman who wanted Maggie to tell her where ASZ is so she can go there to escape instead of finding it herself. This group hasn't learned anything from the biker gang being blown to rice krispies, the girl group being killed and Carol burning the men along with most of them being killed at the security base. Why are they wasting so much time talking?? Negan's group is just flat out pathetic. Unless Negan is purposely sending out the dumb ones and keeping the badasses for later.

Wow! When you spell it out like that it really is a special kind of idiocy, isn't it??

[ShadowSixx]

They do suck but the talking and threats could be more valuable than shooting them.  If they could punk them into admitting where they lived that's great. That saves time.  If they just shot them right there then they'd get no information and keep having to wander around.  Also the only people that know where ASZ is are the people from there plus Jesus and the show gives us the impression that while people go on runs, bunches of them aren't leaving at once.  So unless you find that particular group while wandering around - and get them to admit where it is - you'd be hard pressed to find the place easily.

 

PS. I still hate Morgan. 

 

All that talking they do has gotten them nowhere but killed or retreating. The group just don't crack that easy, the only people that'll possibly crack is Morgan and Enid IMO. The rest won't give in easily, Rick may crack if Carl or Judith is being held at gunpoint. Even with Eugene being held at gunpoint Rosita and Daryl both looked like they still wouldn't tell. Maggie didn't tell the Mole Woman. When the biker gang wanted the same thing from Sasha, Daryl, and Abe who knows if they would have told but then again that guy was going to kill them before even getting any information on where ASZ is.

[jsbt]

I thought the opening montage with the Alexandria routine was really well done - the longer the Gimple regime goes on the more they get a lot out of stretching the limits of their format and premise with various talented directors, they let them try different things and I think most of those innovations work on average. (In fairness I think a lot of that started with Glen Mazzara, who had the incredible silent? opening sequence that began Season 3 and changed the whole attitude of the show and characters.) The slo-mo music moment at the tracks after the firefight was a bit maudlin, though.

 

RIP Denise - I dug her a lot, I'll miss her. I don't think it is a dead lesbian thing because everyone on this show dies. As a gay geek I think that complaint becomes a far too convenient crutch to try to insulate characters from any drama, and I don't think TWD is a show where they deliberately traded on a bait and switch with the audience re: queer visibility unlike some other shows where that definitely happens. That being said they could definitely stand to build up Jesus and poor Aaron and Eric soon. Or Carl could always grow up to swing both ways, who knows.

 

I do think Daryl is cruising for a noble death, probably to save Carol. I think her struggle is fairly well-defined but I hope the close-up on Morgan at the end (with the great sound design on the rocking chair) was to indicate his culpability. He's the guy who can't and won't change, while Carol's at least struggling to reconcile herself. If Morgan had been in the Saviors' safehouse trying to negotiate the Treaty of Versailles they'd all be dead now. That character has to metamorphosize soon - they've made nonentities like Rosita or incredibly annoying characters like Eugene and Abraham grow to the point that I find them appealing, so it can be done.

 

They do a lot of broad strokes character work on this show, especially with the large supporting players, and they also sometimes underplay stuff to the point that it's barely there and while I think both those approaches often work on the show there's times where things could use a little more. I felt they got it right with Tara and poor Denise, but not always with others (Carl and Enid! God!). I think the broad strokes is often what they've done with Abraham and Sasha and while I think a lot of it has mostly worked, it's still pretty elliptical when you get down to that brief scene at the end where he comes to see her. I love Sasha and I've come to mostly like Abraham with her even as I find it random, but it's still kind of a sketch of a relationship held together by some deft, relatively brief scenes and some great acting. What I'm saying is, add a few more strokes on some of these people.

Edited March 21, 2016 by jsbt

[econ07]

Brought to you by the Anti-soda Drinkers of America and the National Dental Council for Non-acidic Beverages.

[Sofinn]

When Eugene got shot, I got happy. They dont have a doctor anymore, one down, two to go (Rosita & Abraham, I sort of dislike them!) but then they just cut it to where Eugene was in bed patched up. Even got antibiotics and all. Who's the doctor now?

Also I'm in love with Norman Reedus again, great. If we lose Daryl, I won't riot cause I'm normal, grown up woman but I will sulk for a while.

[DearEvette]

And just as Eugene is growing a pair, he takes a bite out of someone else's beans.

 

Don't you mean Pintos?

[ottoDbusdriver]

When Eugene got shot, I got happy. They dont have a doctor anymore, one down, two to go (Rosita & Abraham, I sort of dislike them!) but then they just cut it to where Eugene was in bed patched up. Even got antibiotics and all. Who's the doctor now?

 

Well, they did say it was just a superficial wound since the bullet just grazed him so there wasn't any surgery involved.

[Pete Martell]

Carol & Tobin.  I still find it rather random and a bit too "Days of our Lives". Plus, Carol, sorry but I ain't kissing an ashtray!  Besides, cigarettes that are a few years old have to taste beyond nasty!

 

Carol has to know that all of CDB is gonna try to bring her back right?  I like to think she went to find whatever happened to Morales and his family.

 

Maybe they grow their own.

 

Sadly poor Morales seems to be completely forgotten. I'd love to see them again (you know, if they aren't dead).

 

Love Dark Shadows!

[Pete Martell]

I don't care if Merrit Wever was only signed on to be on the show for a year, Denise's death was completely pointless and obviously only done for shock value, worse it only continues the Dead Lesbian trope (which they did TWICE on this show now) . Why even make her gay and put her into a "relationship" with Tara if they do not care enough to flesh it out or treat it with any consideration whatsoever. Also, with Alanna Masterson on maternity leave now and the impending arrival of Negan, I can't see them giving her much screen time to mourn for her girlfriend next season, because by the time Tara will be back on screen, the show will have moved on.

 

I must also say that the show keeps telegraphing the deaths a mile away in advance. Once Denise got a little bit more backstory and had her first zombie kill with an inspirational speech, you just knew she was going to bite it (even though the "how" was still a shocking surprise). Also, will they ever find something else for Daryl to do other than feel guilt and man-pain about a "lost woman"? 

 

Carol's decision - completely out of nowhere. I bought the resurfacing of her conscience last week, but whenever the writers want to make a point about something or look at a character with a certain goal in mind, they just force it on the character, without letting anything develop organically.

 

Besides, what's the point of Carol leaving, being on her own (outside of Alexandria) doesn't mean that she won't have to kill. She's come across enough sociopaths on the show to know better. (BTW: Most people always talk about how amazing Carol's development has been, but let's be honest, most of the development from the weak angsty housewife to the pragmatic fighter has been off screen, so when people praise the writers of the show for Carol's amazing character development, I always have to laugh.)

 

Compared to a number of relationships on the show I felt like they did give some depth to Tara and Denise, Maybe not enough, but considering how much has gone on this season, more than I thought. It's a double-edged sword, because maybe they shouldn't have put her with Tara if they were just going to kill her off (especially since her death will likely be about Daryl), but as much as I'd rather they have another lesbian character along with Tara who doesn't have to die so quickly, I still enjoyed their relationship, for what we saw of it, and I don't regret watching it. I don't feel like the show has a ton of dead lesbians, per se, as Alisha was a minor character (so much so that many fans didn't even seem to realize she was involved with Tara), but I do wish they had more diversity. I saw someone saying, "Gay men have it so much better," and while I don't really want to get into that outside of this show, on this show I can't say I agree that much (Aaron is a B-character and poor Eric, whom we've seen in the background a few times all season, barely registers as a D). I'd love to see more lgbt on the show, to where one of them dying doesn't feel like a trope.

 

I think Carol deep down knows she can't get away from death and killing, but Alexandria represents so much of it in her head, taking an escape from the place is vital to her sanity.

[Grace284]

I assume Tara's actress was probably having a baby at this point, but they couldn't have someone even mention her reaction to her girlfriend's murder?

 

Sasha, have some self respect. Abraham is the worst. Even Eugene knows that. I suppose the only bright side is everyone she loves dies, so fingers crossed for next week.

[Sofinn]

Well, they did say it was just a superficial wound since the bullet just grazed him so there wasn't any surgery involved.

Oh I missed that. Damn I could use subtitles on this show.