The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[galax-arena]

Sorry, mod! This is just something that I get really stirred up over. Well, I mean I’m not apologizing over being angry because I think it’s an understandable topic to get angry over, but I do get why you guys have this sort of rule, to keep things from devolving into an all-out war lol. So I will try to dial it back. I can save the rants for Tumblr, haha.

 

Another example of a live and let live attitude that I have no problems with: My mother is… a bit homophobic. I asked her about it once and she said, “Well, it’s my generation, we just think it’s weird.” I think that does a disservice to the people her age who aren’t homophobic, but she does have a point in that (I believe) younger generations are more likely to be tolerant, and at least she seems to realize that her own feelings are due to outdated generational beliefs. She said that she was in favor of gay marriage because, even though she personally finds it weird, gay people don’t hurt anyone, so why not? 

 

You compare something like my mother’s attitude to someone like the Duggars’ and I think the difference between a simple opinion and something, well, more is pretty clear. Yeah, the Duggars are shaped by their religious beliefs - whereas my mother is simply a product of a time where gay people were more heavily othered than they are now; although I think the two are connected - but there’s a reason why we have the separation of church and state.

Edited August 25, 2014 by galax-arena

[Rhondinella]

I appreciate your valiant efforts, galax-arena :-)  But to be honest this is getting way off topic anyway.  I mean, yes, its a response to something from media reports, but I'd prefer if the conversation is going to stray this far that it be taken over to the Michelle and JimBob thread, where it has already been started as a topic of discussion.  Let's leave this thread for other media mentions and brief comments on them, ok? 

 

Thanks

[Lillybee]

Michelle does have a gay sister.

 

The Duggar's belief system has been called out by a Conservative Christian. Perhaps a bit too late but it did happen.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/29/christian-leader-denounces-duggar-familys-patriarchal-movement-as-truly-dangerous/

[ariel]

I'm watching P. Allen Smith's Garden Home.  He says he has some special guests appearing.  We then see a convoy of a bus & several cars & who should hop out but Jim Boob & family.

 

If you have the PBS Create channel, they are re-airing this today at 5pm EST.  The episode is called "Bulb Gardening".

Edited September 1, 2014 by ariel

[sadtvjunkie]

Didn't they live in the house next door to him when they were in Little Rock? I remember them saying he was their neighbor and he took them to his out in the country place to cut tulips or some such.

[galax-arena]

The Duggar's belief system has been called out by a Conservative Christian.

According to the book God’s Harvard, which is about the college that Michael Farris founded, Gothardites are looked down upon by a lot of the students who go there. There are - were? - some diehard fans, but they’re apparently on the fringe.

[GEML]

According to the firsthand accounts at the blog homeschoolers anonymous, which is running a series about Patrick Henry, Michael Farris refused to use pictures of women in skirts in the promotional materials (let alone prairie/denim garb) for fear it would turn away the homeschooling contingent he was trying to attract.

[galax-arena]

Michael Farris refused to use pictures of women in skirts in the promotional materials (let alone prairie/denim garb) for fear it would turn away the homeschooling contingent he was trying to attract.

There’s one excerpt in God’s Harvard where one mother is dropping off her child and notices women walking around in pants, and her first thought is, “Oh, this is going to be much more casual than I imagined!” LOL.  And before the school opened, some parents were trying to pressure Farris into not admitting girls because they didn’t think it was appropriate. I don’t know if they were Gothardites/Quiverfull, but they were cut from the same cloth. Farris disagreed because he thought that everyone could benefit from higher education.

 

It really says something when someone as conservative as Farris comes off as moderate as he does when put up against the Quiverfull movement.

[SnarkyMcSnarkerson]

I'm watching P. Allen Smith's Garden Home.  He says he has some special guests appearing.  We then see a convoy of a bus & several cars & who should hop out but Jim Boob & family.

 

If you have the PBS Create channel, they are re-airing this today at 5pm EST.  The episode is called "Bulb Gardening".

I shall now refer to this episode as "Dim Bulb Gardening" lol

[Zahdii]

I'm watching P. Allen Smith's Garden Home.  He says he has some special guests appearing.  We then see a convoy of a bus & several cars & who should hop out but Jim Boob & family.

 

If you have the PBS Create channel, they are re-airing this today at 5pm EST.  The episode is called "Bulb Gardening".

This makes no sense.  Isn't P. Allen Smith gay?  Why would the Duggars have anything to do with him?  Why would he have anything to do with them?

[ariel]

This makes no sense.  Isn't P. Allen Smith gay?  Why would the Duggars have anything to do with him?  Why would he have anything to do with them?

 

I was wondering the same thing.  WTF?

[jumper sage]

Galax-Arena - thanks for the book suggestion!

 

[runs across library.......]

[WTFFF]

Well, the Duggars have their priorities.  Sure, being gay is evil, but the guy is willing to give them a field trip and a lot of stunning flowers at no cost to them.  As long as they get something out of it, they can put their "moral convictions" on the back burner.

[xls]

Hi!

I just signed the petition "The Learning Channel: End LGBTQ fear mongering by the Duggars." on Change.org.

It's important. Will you sign it too? Here's the link:

http://www.change.org/p/the-learning-channel-end-lgbtq-fear-mongering-by-the-duggars?recruiter=17136044&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

Thanks!

[JessDVD]

You'll all be thrilled to know that Jim Bob and Michelle now have an official Facebook page. Can't link from phone but it's Duggar family official. So now Michelle has something else to do that's not parenting her own kids. Phew!

[bigskygirl]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms/news/michelle-duggar-blogs-about-jills-pregnancy-jessas-engagement-201449

 

All I can say is get out the shovel. The bs is getting mighty deep in Duggar Land. She is probably having a hissy fit over the fact her daughter got pregnant in a short period of time, and Jessa is marrying a guy Michelle has the secret hots for.

[galax-arena]

Her daughter Jordyn, 5, is having a particularly hard time with all the new developments, and burst into tears one day when Jessa left with her fiance's family. "She was worried that Jessa was leaving for good," Michelle wrote. "I had to comfort her and reassure her that Jessa wasn't married yet, just going for a visit."

I hope that Jordyn throws a major hissy fit that results in Jessa and Ben moving into the attic a la Full House.

 

“But we’re all supposed to be one big happy family!”

[wanderwoman]

I think it's exceedingly telling that Jordyn reacted so strongly to Jessa leaving. We've seen Michelle leaVe for weeks with Jim Bob on retreats and speaking engagements. I don't recall one incident where the kids have lost it over Michelle leaving.

[Gweilo]

Did you see the bit where she basically admitted that now they're married/engaged they're allowed to get to know each other?: "You get the joy of watching a loving relationship unfold. Jill and Derick, and Jessa and Ben, are becoming best friends and really getting to know each other in such a sweet way."

 

Don't they realise how stupid their courtship model sounds, if you're expected to make a lifelong, ironclad commitment BEFORE GOD before you're expected to become best friends with your partner?  My awesome parish priest would have had conniptions if we'd turned up to our pre marriage meetings and chirped "Yes, we can't wait to be married so then we can become best friends!  I'm so excited to get to know more about him!!!11!!!111"

[Literata]

 

getting to know each other in such a sweet way."

Every mention of "sweet" rankles me to no end. If anyone creates a Duggar drinking game, "sweet" has to be in there.

[WTFFF]

Poor Jordyn.  Jessa never seemed like the best buddy, but she's the closest thing to a mom that little girl has. 

[juneday]

Every mention of "sweet" rankles me to no end. If anyone creates a Duggar drinking game, "sweet" has to be in there.

Duggar Drinking Game:

 

Every mention of the words "sweet, blessed, precious, miracle, pure." 

Every time Michelle says "season of life." 

Every time Michelle uses her overly-sweet voice when not talking to a baby or small child.

Every time we see the family using paper utensils.

 

That's all I can think of for now.

[DangerousMinds]

Somebody call 911!

[starfire]

Duggar Drinking Game:

 

Every mention of the words "sweet, blessed, precious, miracle, pure." 

Every time Michelle says "season of life." 

Every time Michelle uses her overly-sweet voice when not talking to a baby or small child.

Every time we see the family using paper utensils.

 

That's all I can think of for now.

 

All participants would die of alcohol poisoning within 15 minutes!

[Literata]

 

 

Every mention of the words "sweet, blessed, precious, miracle, pure."

Every time Michelle says "season of life."

Every time Michelle uses her overly-sweet voice when not talking to a baby or small child.

Every time we see the family using paper utensils.

• "Purpose" used as a verb
• Beds with no sheets on them
• Female howlers with uncombed hair
• Generic-brand anything

[starfire]

Okay, now we are down to all participants being dead within 7 minutes.

[Literata]

I was downloading some NPR shows and other heathen podcasts this weekend, and I decided to see what iTunes had available in the Duggar realm. I found two episodes of Josh appearing on some fundie radio show, and he actually wasn't as smug as he comes across on the show, although the show was, IMO, obnoxious.

 

The high points:

 

1. He's sometimes overwhelmed by the needs of his kids.

2. He and Anna argue, mostly over responsibilities having to do with the kids, but make sure not to go to bed angry.

3. Although he gave the standard party line about Boob and J'Chelle being wonderful parents, he conceded that when he was growing up, he and his siblings didn't always get along, but that his parents weren't into tattling (big surprise, as refereeing sometimes requires effort) and urged them to work it out. 

4. Re: courtship, he said something interesting about the fact that it's common for courting couples to "slip" and do more physically than they had "purposed" to, but then it's critical to "pray and get back on track."

5. When he was 15, he briefly questioned the values with which he had been raised. (My guess: That's when he was sent to the Alert Academy.)

[lottiedottie]

That's really interesting about Josh. (Kudos to you for sitting through whatever fundie nonsense you had to hear to get it!) I wish Josh understood that it is normal to be frustrated when you have kids, especially when you have several in quick succession! Sounds like Anna doesn't feel like just because she is the woman, she should be the only one doing the heavy lifting when it comes to the kids. I only have two kids, they are old enough to do a lot by themselves and my husband is a great help and there are times when it's still overwhelming! I can't imagine what it is like with three little ones.

[bigskygirl]

Yes, poor Josh and Anna. Getting a cushy job  because of his family's last name and having a family member stay with them to take care of *their* children because they feel a little overwhelm. Sorry, but these two brought it on themselves. They are not the first or last couple to have young children and deal with the daily stress of being a young couple with children.

[mimionthebeach]

I was downloading some NPR shows and other heathen podcasts this weekend, and I decided to see what iTunes had available in the Duggar realm. I found two episodes of Josh appearing on some fundie radio show, and he actually wasn't as smug as he comes across on the show, although the show was, IMO, obnoxious.

Did this fundie radio show involve Ray Comfort by any chance?

[WTFFF]

 

5. When he was 15, he briefly questioned the values with which he had been raised. (My guess: That's when he was sent to the Alert Academy.)

Remember when Josh showed up in 14 Children and Please Just Stop with a freshly-shaved head?  I wonder if those incidents are related; the timing seems to match.  And I've heard it said that the people who question the fundie beliefs growing up always end up full-hog fundie, often more intense than the parents, or staunchly atheist; guess we know which way Josh went. 

[GEML]

I personally know plenty of Fundamentalist raised people who found some sort of middle ground. Usually making both sides unhappy! :)

[bigskygirl]

People article on Ben and Jessa     http://www.people.com/article/jessa-duggar-ben-seewald-wedding-date

[Literata]

 

Did this fundie radio show involve Ray Comfort by any chance?

It did!

[ginger90]

Did this fundie radio show involve Ray Comfort by any chance?

 

It did!

Has anyone heard about 19 Kids and Preaching?

More from Ray Comfort:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcEOkkRUBt4&feature=youtu.be&list=UUmrVJGUS1u5-Hsm_BFS_1YA

[truthtalk2014]

Yes, poor Josh and Anna. Getting a cushy job  because of his family's last name and having a family member stay with them to take care of *their* children because they feel a little overwhelm. Sorry, but these two brought it on themselves. They are not the first or last couple to have young children and deal with the daily stress of being a young couple with children.

Yes, just stop having children and take care of the ones you have.  Even daycare centers are only allowed so many children per adult.  Keep up the makeup, hair and such and at some point Joshy boy may buy you a car and allow you to go hang out with friends - alone without the children.  

 

Although, I have to admit that Anna's children are much more well behaved than the howlers.  

[mledawn]

Although, I have to admit that Anna's children are much more well behaved than the howlers.  

 

To be fair, there are only three of them...

[zenme]

Not only are there 3 of them, but even on the oldest Duggar specials, the Duggar kids were more well behaved. Somewhere along the way, as each of the howlers got older, their good behavior began to decline. I guess more cameras equaled less blanket training, and that resulted in howleristic behavior. Then Ma Duggar just gave up and retreated to her bedroom.

ETA: oops! I think this is veering off-topic for this thread.

Edited September 16, 2014 by zenme

[mimionthebeach]

Not only are there 3 of them, but even on the oldest Duggar specials, the Duggar kids were more well behaved. Somewhere along the way, as each of the howlers got older, their good behavior began to decline. I guess more cameras equaled less blanket training, and that resulted in howleristic behavior. Then Ma Duggar just gave up and retreated to her bedroom.

ETA: oops! I think this is veering off-topic for this thread.

 

I think you're right on topic. The presence of the TV cameras altered their child-rearing practices. Given our suspicions regarding those practices and the prior support of the Pearls, cameras in the home meant less 'effective' discipline and increased howlerism. Ergo, Duggars In The Media led to badly behaved Duggars. 

[frenchtoast]

And yet, there's an even better thread for it--the Child Rearing Duggar Style thread. Which is where the discussion can be taken.

[truthtalk2014]

To be fair, there are only three of them...

True, and IMO, that's all she can handle right now. She has 3 children- ages 4 and under.  That is a huge responsibility.  I don't want to see Mac turn into a MSlave.  

Edited September 21, 2014 by truthtalk2014

[Jellybeans]

I still say my family is crazier than the Duggar Family. :-)

[jcbrown]

Serious piece on Quiverfull by Vyckie Garrison of No Longer Quivering that mentions the Duggars numerous times: http://www.alternet.org/belief/how-playing-good-christian-housewife-almost-killed-me?paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark  Pretty terrifying stuff and makes me feel even worse for the girls, especially.

Edited September 22, 2014 by jcbrown

[merylinkid]

Here's something I have been wondering.   If the point of the Quiverfull movement is to have so many kids they overwhelm the establishment and can set up their own brand of goverment, how do they plan on doing that when the kids are barely educated?   No science, not much math, limited computer skills.   Yet they are planning on taking over the country?

[LazyToaster]

Here's something I have been wondering.   If the point of the Quiverfull movement is to have so many kids they overwhelm the establishment and can set up their own brand of goverment, how do they plan on doing that when the kids are barely educated?   No science, not much math, limited computer skills.   Yet they are planning on taking over the country?

All I could think of is that commercial where they say something like "it doesn't work like that - none of it works like that"! LOL

[GEML]

That's a pretty serious piece, although I do have to say that I've known other families who practiced QUIVERFUL beliefs that did not result in abuse of any kind (and I was close enough to the family to know) just as I've known very secular families that didn't need religion to abuse.

I do think that religion can be used as a shield for abusive practices, and that it sometimes draws people into it that already have those tendencies because it "forgives" when there are some things that need to be restrained or re taught in a social or family dynamic. But I absolutely maintain that two emotionally healthy people practicing a religion (and answering first and foremost to their own conscience, not another person) can actually have a life enhanced by religious practice.

I don't think the Duggars are "abused " in any common parlance of the term. Michelle is certainly not an abused wife. But I don't think that their home is a particularly healthy one to grow up in, but I think that about a lot of non-religious homes as well.

My two cents.

[ginger90]

In an abusive "relationship", doesn't the abuser keep the abused away from others? A husband or boyfriend for example, keeping the wife or girlfriend "away" from their family, is a sign. There's numerous ways the Duggars are kept away from others. Just thinking about that.

Edited September 22, 2014 by ginger90

[DangerousMinds]

Here's something I have been wondering.   If the point of the Quiverfull movement is to have so many kids they overwhelm the establishment and can set up their own brand of goverment, how do they plan on doing that when the kids are barely educated?   No science, not much math, limited computer skills.   Yet they are planning on taking over the country?

From the Alternet article:

 

"The whole point of having a quiver full of babies is to ... out-populate the “enemy,” … that would be all of you; and to shoot those many arrows “straight into the heart of the enemy.” And by that, we meant that our children would grow up to be leaders in all the major institutions of our society. This was our plan for taking back America for God. So the children were like arrows (which is the ammunition) in God’s holy war."

 

Leaders in all the major institutions in society? Yeah, I think kids would need excellent educations if that's the goal. And maybe even have to work under a boss?

[juneday]

In an abusive "relationship", doesn't the abuser keep the abused away from others? A husband or boyfriend for example, keeping the wife or girlfriend "away" from their family, is a sign. There's numerous ways the Duggars are kept away from others. Just thinking about that.

Yes, in some cases, especially emotionally and/or verbally abusive relationships. I have been in an emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship, and can testify that the other person will try to guilt you into staying away from other people-even your close friends and family.

[PinkSprinkles]

That's a pretty serious piece, although I do have to say that I've known other families who practiced QUIVERFUL beliefs that did not result in abuse of any kind (and I was close enough to the family to know) just as I've known very secular families that didn't need religion to abuse.

I do think that religion can be used as a shield for abusive practices, and that it sometimes draws people into it that already have those tendencies because it "forgives" when there are some things that need to be restrained or re taught in a social or family dynamic. But I absolutely maintain that two emotionally healthy people practicing a religion (and answering first and foremost to their own conscience, not another person) can actually have a life enhanced by religious practice.

I don't think the Duggars are "abused " in any common parlance of the term. Michelle is certainly not an abused wife. But I don't think that their home is a particularly healthy one to grow up in, but I think that about a lot of non-religious homes as well.

My two cents.

 

100% agreed.