The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[Guest]

Do we know if their TLC contract had a non-compete clause? 

[Almost 3000]

Us has a report up about the Duggars going to church for the porn sermon. I thought they had their own basement church? Isn't the house designated a non-profit so they don't have to pay taxes or something?

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/duggar-family-attend-church-sermon-on-pornography-amid-josh-scandal-201579

 

Contrary to the perky reporting the comments are firmly anti-Duggar. And one person says he/she has been getting their information from here. Hee!

The church they were at on Sunday was the Dillard's church. The Duggar home is not their church nor does it hold any tax exemptions as a place of worship. The church of Jim Bob has been in a series of empty houses and industrial buildings and one of those may or may not have some tax benefit.

[JoanArc]

Do we know if their TLC contract had a non-compete clause? 

There had to be at least a year. Look at the Bates when they jumped networks.

[Guest]

There had to be at least a year. Look at the Bates when they jumped networks.

 

Do you think Vlogging or doing the show via Youtube would violate that clause? It's not another network, per se. 

[mbutterfly]

Mark Morford makes an interesting argument for why pinning the "addiction" label on Josh's porniness and horniness may be just another Christian Right ploy to blame all of men's problems on women

http://blog.sfgate.com/morford/2015/09/04/sex-addiction-does-not-exist/?cmpid=NLmorford

 

"Look at it this way: If you truly believe sex, or porn, or masturbation – all just shorthand, by the way, for “women’s sexuality,” given how it’s almost always men who claim addiction – are truly dangerous, if you really believe that enjoying such things can result in a genuine medical condition bordering on psychosis, it’s no leap at all to demand that those forces – i.e.; women – be curtailed, shut down, defunded, the “drug” of their sexuality restricted and made forbidden, lest dumb, powerless, God-fearing men go “insane” with uncontrollable lust and… well, you know the rest.

"Right? It’s the same revolting message across the planet and since times biblical: Women’s sexuality is pure sin, a poison of devilish origin, the Serpent in disguise. If an innocent Christian – like poor little Josh Duggar – is “addicted” to sex, guess who’s to really to blame for enflaming and engorging his desires?"

I've been thinking along these lines too. Apparently there were only 3 zip codes in the U. S. that did not have an AM subscriber. If everyone treated it like the Duggars there would be tens of thousands of men in rehab. Perhaps some are, but mostly I'm thinking they're just taking their lumps and carrying on with virtually none of them attempting to blame their wives. I know Josh didn't apparently blame Anna, but their culture did. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by mbutterfly

[BetyBee]

People are "starting to wise up" - we've been there for awhile!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/people-wise-up-fans-starting-to-think-duggar-daughters-donation-funded-mission-is-just-a-scam/

[Loves2Dance]

People are "starting to wise up" - we've been there for awhile!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/people-wise-up-fans-starting-to-think-duggar-daughters-donation-funded-mission-is-just-a-scam/

About time. 

[NextIteration]

Another "wising up" article.

[Julia]

Another "wising up" article.

 

I think that's a rehash of some earlier articles. I'm also pretty sure the Duggars never made a $25 million salary from their show, so I'd take that one with a grain of salt.

 

However - Patheos points out that the missionary organization the Duggars and the Dillards work with is primarily interested in converting Catholics. It seems like an odd choice to work to separate people from their support system and their community rather than trying to help people who have neither of those things.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Julia

[STFUFrank]

Another article calling out the Duggars. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/selfish-and-rude-fans-rip-duggars-for-celebrating-cousins-marriage-by-posting-jessas-wedding-pics/

[Aja]

It's like we all woke up at 6AM and everyone else slept until noon.

[Wellfleet]

Another "wising up" article.

 

Wow. According to this article, Boob was earning $25 million a year. !!!  Where did this info come from? And someone who once worked with the same "mission" Jill & Derick are with currently commented that that outfit is a complete scam too! I'm no longer facetiously wondering what'll be next? Now I'm expecting more revelations about how-the-Duggars-were-not-what-they-said-they-were. Rubs hands together gleefully...

It's like we all woke up at 6AM and everyone else slept until noon.

 

That's exactly what happened. Great metaphor.

[sometimesy]

People will probably come out with another warm and fuzzy article for the Duggars. One of the magazines did have a photo of Amy in her dress, then put Jill's and Jessa's up as well. Wish I had bookmarked that.

 

Would one of these magazines please investigate the rumours that JB has some skimming rights to the donations. I forget what it is called, but he is rumoured to have a company that collects the donations for the Dillards and he takes a percentage for that service. Thanks.

[3 is enough]

I think the 25 million figure is not real.  TLC said they were losing 19 million by cancelling the show, so if they paid JB 25 million that means they would be losing 6 million just to have them on.  Doesn't make sense.

 

I remember reading about a figure of 25K per episode, which at 40 episodes per year would give him 1 million. Add on assorted freebies (catering on filming days, travel expenses, etc) and some extra money for "special episodes" and that sounds more realistic.

 

That's still more money than most people can even dream of, but after taxes, and taking into account that there are 30 people being supported, including in-laws, grandkids, and grandma, it wouldn't go that far.  Just maintaining and insuring the fleet of vehicles ( and the plane!) they have would take a serious chunk of change. I can't imagine the rental incomes and cell tower bring in that much.  They really and truly must be in full panic mode right now.  And so, they beg for donations.

Edited September 9, 2015 by 3 is enough

[GeeGolly]

I hope the Dillards have enough sense to respond. Derick has an Accounting degree and he would look foolish not to explain their expenses. Part of me wonders that if SOS is a scam, maybe the Dillards were also scammed by them.

[Loves2Dance]

People will probably come out with another warm and fuzzy article for the Duggars. One of the magazines did have a photo of Amy in her dress, then put Jill's and Jessa's up as well. Wish I had bookmarked that.

 

Would one of these magazines please investigate the rumours that JB has some skimming rights to the donations. I forget what it is called, but he is rumoured to have a company that collects the donations for the Dillards and he takes a percentage for that service. Thanks.

I thought we already established that that was false. 

[sometimesy]

I thought we already established that that was false. 

 

Really? I must have missed that conversation completely.

[Loves2Dance]

Really? I must have missed that conversation completely.

It happened when the website donation page first came out; not sure if you can search the thread, but it's in here. 

[JoanArc]

Ah, the wheels are really coming off the wagon. Better late than never.

 

They can't blame mean ol' Josh for this one. It's entirely on Jill and Derick (and their grifter parents), and is recent.

 

 

I hope the Dillards have enough sense to respond.

Of course, like this:

 

Edited September 9, 2015 by JoanArc

[Julia]

If I remember that conversation, the Dillards are using Cornerstone Payment Systems to process their donations. Cornerstone also provides "Christian" credit card processing services for businesses, and can arrange for a percentage of those receipts to go for the support of a particular religious ministry, kind of like having an Amazon link on your webpage. It's been around for about fifteen years, and I can't find any indication that the Duggars were involved. 

[JenCarroll]

I think the 25 million figure is not real.  TLC said they were losing 19 million by cancelling the show, so if they paid JB 25 million that means they would be losing 6 million just to have them on.  Doesn't make sense.

 

I remember reading about a figure of 25K per episode, which at 40 episodes per year would give him 1 million. Add on assorted freebies (catering on filming days, travel expenses, etc) and some extra money for "special episodes" and that sounds more realistic.

I don't think they did anything like 40 episodes per year.

[PityFree]

I hope the Dillards have enough sense to respond. Derick has an Accounting degree and he would look foolish not to explain their expenses. Part of me wonders that if SOS is a scam, maybe the Dillards were also scammed by them.

You reminded me of something that hit me the other day. Derrick might have an accounting degree, but very little actual accounting experience. Did he work during college? Did he do internships? Did he do any accounting while he was on his mission trip after college? He worked for less than a year at Walmart and now he does awful skits and interpretive dance for a living. I would not be surprised if he left Walmart because he wasn't that good at accounting. (If he goes back to accounting, he'll have to compete with people who have master's degrees or CPAs or, heck, anyone with a full year of work experience.) 

 

I am not sure Derrick *can* explain their expenses.  

[sometimesy]

Have the Duggars kept silent regarding the Kentucky county clerk who wouldn't issue same-sex marriage licenses?

 

edit: just noticed a pic of Amy's wedding up on their facebook. haha..oh and Hello! whichever Duggar is reading this.

Edited September 9, 2015 by sometimesy

[frenchtoast]

Let's make sure any remarks about the clerk in KY are in relation to the Duggars in the Media. Normally, politics and religion are topics not discussed on PTV. Discussion of the Duggars and politics is hard to avoid considering how they've involved themselves. However, we do not need wide ranging discussion of politics and the hot button issues in this forum.

 

Please PM us with any questions or clarification. 

[galax-arena]

Have the Duggars kept silent regarding the Kentucky county clerk who wouldn't issue same-sex marriage licenses?

I think even the Duggars realize that speaking out about the Kentucky clerk would be a fool's errand now. They've lost whatever little credibility they've had as family values advocates, and they know it.

 

The one exception might be Jessa and Ben. I could see those two going off-script and yammering on about religious liberty. But their cause celebre seems to be abortion, not LGBT rights. The latter was more Josh's forte, and we know he ain't saying shit. Now, if he still had his job with the FRC, we'd definitely be hearing some self-important soundbites.

[Missy Vixen]

Now, if he still had his job with the FRC, we'd definitely be hearing some self-important soundbites.

Oh, we'd be hearing more than soundbites. Smuggar would have been there yesterday. And one can only imagine the shoving match between him and Huckabee over who was standing on the platform for the festivities.

[sometimesy]

Pics of shoulder-baring Amy, no comments on Kentucky. Has the veil between their world and ours been lifted? The lab rats are exhibiting strange behaviour in social media.

[Vermicious Knid]

I've been assuming that $19 million is estimated ad revenue. And it's misleading because most of the advertisers will be moved to lower rated shows so they won't be getting as much, but it's not just evaporating.

 

TLC still can't imagine a future without fundamentalists, they renewed The Willis Family for a second season.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/08/31/the-willis-family-renewed-for-8-episode-season-2-by-tlc/455491/

[Guest]

Does anyone know if TLC's numbers are still up following the cancellation?

[Sew Sumi]

I don't think they did anything like 40 episodes per year.

Their last three or four calendar years consisted of two 20-episode "seasons." So yeah, 40 episodes. eta: Hour episodes count as two, or $50k. The $25k number was for each 30 minute episode. 

 

Since then, I've heard they got closer to $40-50k/30 minute episode. I could see Boob renegotiating for that amount after Jill's wedding brought blockbuster ratings. But that means they only got the big numbers for a very short time, just the "Jessa" season of episodes. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Absolom]

The numbers batted around on the internet for these reality shows are almost always inflated and sometimes wildly inflated. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Absolom

[kokapetl]

Jill and Jessa's courtships and weddings spanned three seasons over 14 months. I thought they were really boring, and the extra screen time didn't do Jill or Jessa any favors, but not only did they crack the 2 million viewer mark in those seasons, they averaged over 2 million when they used to be more like 1 million.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Sew Sumi]

I forgot about Muffy's courtship episode. That ended a "season" and got blockbuster ratings. THAT would have been when Boob renegotiated. Jill's wedding cracked 3 million; the only episode that hit that mark. Jessa's wedding was mid 2's, IIRC. 

[GeeGolly]

Their largest seasons were 3 - 6, with season 4 having the most episodes at 38. Seasons 7 - 10 averaged 20 episodes per season. Like Sew Sumi said if they had a pay increase it was on a lessor amount of episodes. According to poverty guidelines for 2015 the Duggars would have to make over $80,000 per year to be above the poverty threshold. So for a 10 year period, if the Duggars made 1 million dollars, that would put them in working class or lower middle class.

 

From my perspective, even considering many of their perks, they have spent a large amount of their income during their years on TV. Like I said earlier, IMHO, even if they invested 2 million, it won't last long with a family of their size.

[Gemma Violet]

 

TLC still can't imagine a future without fundamentalists, they renewed The Willis Family for a second season.

 

I was hoping this would happen.  My fantasy is that The Willis Family's ratings grow each season until they rival or surpass 19 Kids & Counting's at it's peak.  Then Jim Bob will be sitting on the sidelines watching another large religious family take "their" spotlight.  It would be too delicious.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Gemma Violet

[Julia]

Aw. Amy retweeted her wedding picture from People (which they chopped off quite a bit about the, um, natural focal point of the image) and their picture of her hugbombing Anna. And after a month of relentless self-promotion, Amy's twitter followers have skyrocketed from 74.3k last month to, um, 75.7k. 

 

I think America has decided to pass on the Kings.

[kokapetl]

Unless the Willises get really good ratings within the first few seasons, I can't see their show going further than those few seasons, they don't need the money and I assume they also come with the hassle of music licensing/royalties.

[Cherrio]

The numbers batted around on the internet for these reality shows is almost always inflated and sometimes wildly inflated. 

I agree and I also do not think Jim Bob could negotiate at will. Reality participants are under limited (usually yearly) contracts and are "invited" back.   If there are negotiations at that time, TLC always has the upper hand.   The Duggars needed TLC , not the other way around.   Sure, TLC was making a bundle off them, but TLC could also see that the Duggars were spending foolishly putting themselves into a position of being dependent on the network.

            Also, TLC knew that they could easily offer the married couples their own shows or other who were 18 and over.  Jim Bob may have had the power to control his kids and said no to that, but then TLC walks away and finds another fundie family.     That is another losing hand for Jim Bob.

[Loves2Dance]

I was hoping this would happen.  My fantasy is that The Willis Family's ratings grow each season until they rival or surpass 19 Kids & Counting's at it's peak.  Then Jim Bob will be sitting on the sidelines watching another large religious family take "their" spotlight.  It would be too delicious.

That'd be fun, if only the Willis' weren't on the same wavelength as the Duggar's. Though I imagine FB seethes over the Bates on Up. 

[JenCarroll]

Their largest seasons were 3 - 6, with season 4 having the most episodes at 38. Seasons 7 - 10 averaged 20 episodes per season. Like Sew Sumi said if they had a pay increase it was on a lessor amount of episodes. According to poverty guidelines for 2015 the Duggars would have to make over $80,000 per year to be above the poverty threshold. So for a 10 year period, if the Duggars made 1 million dollars, that would put them in working class or lower middle class.

 

From my perspective, even considering many of their perks, they have spent a large amount of their income during their years on TV. Like I said earlier, IMHO, even if they invested 2 million, it won't last long with a family of their size.

Out of curiosity (and because doing my own math is apparently way too hard), would that count the adult un-marrieds as dependents? Or just Joy on down? I'm wondering about the economic feasibility of maintaining all those SAHD's. And SAHS's, maybe. Either way, clearly when you can't rise out of poverty on less than $80,000 a year, you've had way too many children.

But yeah, that does put it in perspective; an income of $1,000,000 just gets them by, especially given that the adult children all seem to be dependent to one degree or another; the interest on even three times that amount (around $120,000 -- that math I can do in my head) would have them barely getting by.

[GeeGolly]

The Duggars would have to make over $80,000 per year to be above the poverty threshold, when including their adult dependent children.

[JoanArc]

An excellent overview of the Duggars, Gothard, and the scandals. Very long!

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

[b2H]

Beaten out by JoanArc!

:-)

Edited September 10, 2015 by b2H

[JoanArc]

Beaten out by JoanArc!

:-)

If you were holier, godlier, and followed Mr. Gothard's rules better, you'd have been first. ;)

Edited September 10, 2015 by JoanArc

[graefin]

Their last three or four calendar years consisted of two 20-episode "seasons." So yeah, 40 episodes. eta: Hour episodes count as two, or $50k. The $25k number was for each 30 minute episode. 

 

Since then, I've heard they got closer to $40-50k/30 minute episode. I could see Boob renegotiating for that amount after Jill's wedding brought blockbuster ratings. But that means they only got the big numbers for a very short time, just the "Jessa" season of episodes. 

I could believe this, but even (J&)K&8 was bringing in only $22,500 per ep at the height of its popularity. Or would the Duggars automatically earn more because there are more family members involved? Interestingly, the figures for double-length eps of (J&)K&8 were paid out at the same rate as the single ones (at least according to the book that was published with the contract information).

 

Still, the Duggars are far from poor.

[kokapetl]

TLC dared show Gothard on camera three times? The claim that JimChelle didn't inform law enforcement is incorrect, the statute of limitations expired in 2006 because they did inform law enforcement previously. And being tight lipped and selective about who they informed about Josh's actions isn't an IBLP thing, it's what the average person does.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Churchhoney]

An excellent overview of the Duggars, Gothard, and the scandals. Very long!

 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

 

Great article. The details about cleaning IBLP headquarters are something I don't remember hearing before and make ATI sound even more like the "Christian" version of Scientology.

 

And then there's this: 'And IBLP used the Duggars’ fame to promote its teachings. The Duggars, said Leigh, were Gothard’s “model ATI family,” and were “held up as ideal in the IBLP world.” Though IBLP hasn’t rebounded to its glory days, many recent enrollments were loyal viewers who’d been inspired by the show, according to Leigh, who has discussed the matter with recent staffers at IBLP headquarters. As depicted by TLC, the Duggars were a loving, virtuous family—and their biggest fans wanted to know their secret.

 

'"People weren’t joining ATI in the past five years because of Bill Gothard,” said John Cornish, spokesman for the website Recovering Grace, which gathers and publishes former ATI members’ accounts of abuse by Gothard. “They were joining because they had seen the Duggars on TV and wanted to live like them.”'

 

As I've always thought, the show was absolutely about their cult. In the most underhanded possible way. Thanks for nothing, TLC.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Churchhoney

[kokapetl]

Great article. The details about cleaning IBLP headquarters are something I don't remember hearing before and make ATI sound even more like the "Christian" version of Scientology.

And then there's this: 'And IBLP used the Duggars’ fame to promote its teachings. The Duggars, said Leigh, were Gothard’s “model ATI family,” and were “held up as ideal in the IBLP world.” Though IBLP hasn’t rebounded to its glory days, many recent enrollments were loyal viewers who’d been inspired by the show, according to Leigh, who has discussed the matter with recent staffers at IBLP headquarters. As depicted by TLC, the Duggars were a loving, virtuous family—and their biggest fans wanted to know their secret.

'People weren’t joining ATI in the past five years because of Bill Gothard,” said John Cornish, spokesman for the website Recovering Grace, which gathers and publishes former ATI members’ accounts of abuse by Gothard. “They were joining because they had seen the Duggars on TV and wanted to live like them.”'

As I've always thought, the show was absolutely about their cult. In the most underhanded possible way. Thanks for nothing, TLC.

It wasn't about a cult, it was about the Duggars. TLC clearly chose not to highlight the religion. I understand people who were in similar religious sects found the Duggars unpleasantly reminiscent of things they'd rather forget, but the average viewer didn't have a clue, they were just mockable freaks on TV.

[Cherrio]

Great article. The details about cleaning IBLP headquarters are something I don't remember hearing before and make ATI sound even more like the "Christian" version of Scientology.

 

And then there's this: 'And IBLP used the Duggars’ fame to promote its teachings. The Duggars, said Leigh, were Gothard’s “model ATI family,” and were “held up as ideal in the IBLP world.” Though IBLP hasn’t rebounded to its glory days, many recent enrollments were loyal viewers who’d been inspired by the show, according to Leigh, who has discussed the matter with recent staffers at IBLP headquarters. As depicted by TLC, the Duggars were a loving, virtuous family—and their biggest fans wanted to know their secret.

 

'"People weren’t joining ATI in the past five years because of Bill Gothard,” said John Cornish, spokesman for the website Recovering Grace, which gathers and publishes former ATI members’ accounts of abuse by Gothard. “They were joining because they had seen the Duggars on TV and wanted to live like them.”'

 

As I've always thought, the show was absolutely about their cult. In the most underhanded possible way. Thanks for nothing, TLC.

Thanks for the article Joanarc and Churchhoney, I agree about the cult.

[Lemur]

Thanks for the article Joanarc and Churchhoney, I agree about the cult.

 

Seconded, heartily.  Also:

 

“'As we commit the work of buying a toothbrush to Him,' one Wisdom Book advises, 'He has promised to make His will known to us.'"

 

Clearly God laid it on my heart to own a Crest Spinbrush. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Lemur