S20.E11: The Finale / S20.E12: After The Final Rose

[Lemons]

 

So Jo-Jo is the new bachlorette. Yawn. I would rather have had Calia even with her problems opening up. At least she brings the pretty. Oh well, I guess as soon as they dangled the bachlorette title in front of Jo-Jo her heart healed pretty quickly. But then I always thought Jo-Jo was more in love with being in love than with Ben.

 

Do they always pick the losers as the Bachelorettes?  How boring.  I find JoJo completely boring and not that attractive.  She wasn't in love with Ben, she was in love with the show, in love with being on TV.  The speech she gave on the show and saying she prayed when she came back home after Ben?  Weird.  It was obvious they had chosen her as the Bachelorette.   No surprises for this show.  I can't watch anymore.

[Alapaki]

Of course they would be confused....I mean, the Bachelor said, I love you, and a lot of other convincing things.

 

 

I went into the season spoiled (it's the only way I can bear it anymore), so I did see a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle actions by Ben towards Lauren.

 

But I think the "I love you" gets to the heart of it.  Beyond whether it's morally defensible (which I really don't care about), we've heard time and again that the Lead "isn't allowed to say that" even as there's tremendous pressure on the F4/F3 to say it to the Lead.  So I can't fault JoJo for interpreting those words from Ben as the biggest wink-and-nod of all time.  

[yorklee2]

 

I agree on Joelle's middle part.  I think it does odd things to her face shape, and she's constantly winging back the sides of her hair. I"d love to see her mix it up a bit with a side part.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Maybe if as many people complained about it on social media as they did against Caila the producers would listen and suggest to her that they really think she needs a fresh new hairstyle to start her "journey".

[TheFinalRose]

THEFINALROSE, ON 14 MAR 2016 - 10:10 PM, SAID:

Very hard to convince us all to care about Caila after witnessing JoJo's duping and dumping.  Plus, JoJo was so subdued about getting over her heartbreak that I sensed a Bachelorette announcement coming fast.  Well, that will be a very fun season as she is a really really really great choice for a lead.

 

Unless they didn't show a scene of Ben telling JoJo that he was choosing her, then she was not duped. She was well aware of how this show works, and that she had a 50/50 chance of being dumped.

 

 

 

 

I think JoJo was duped by Ben into thinking she was the F1 when he told her he loved her during the F3 date and then all the way up until the moment he told her he also loved Lauren too.  JoJo knew that the guy isn't supposed to say I love you back, so for him to break the rules and say that to her would be very very misleading.  Sure he eventually told her, but at the very end of the process, after repeatedly telling her he loved her.  She was duped up until that point, and then by the time of the Final Rose ceremony she had at least a better understanding of what Ben was up to.  

 

 

[amcfar]

As others here have already pointed out, Ben is forever talking about himself. Nearly everything he says starts out with "I want...", "I feel...", "I need...", etc. And seeing that he's clearly a momma's boy, I can imagine that a lot of this has to do with him being coddled and constantly reassured that he's momma's special snowflake.

As much as Lauren's trying to be a good sport about Ben also telling JoJo "I love you", you know that it has to sting. Personally, I don't know how she can ever truly get past it. Especially when he was telling JoJo "I love you" right up until a day before proposing to Lauren. And even as he was telling JoJo goodbye, he was still reiterating that he truly loved her.

I watched Ben and Lauren's interview on Jimmy Kimmel and Lauren mentioned that she may have already brought this up in a fight (Ben saying "I love you" to both women). Can't say that I'm surprised. I also can't say that Ben didn't have it coming.

That re-proposal in front of Lauren's family was very cringe-worthy to me. He looked so nervous as he awkwardly uttered "Will you marry me again?" Um, what?

Speaking of awkward - that whole bit towards the end with Jimmy Kimmel and the Barbie dolls was one of the strangest things I've ever seen on this show (and we all know that there have been MANY). No way Lauren was going to agree to a live wedding immediately after that mess (not that it was ever a real possibility in the first place).

Ben said so many bizarre things on ATFR but the one comment that really stood out to me was him mentioning that he'd be "relevant for another ten minutes." Again, what? Such an odd thing to say. I found myself immediately looking at Lauren to see what her reaction was to that comment.

Edited March 15, 2016 by amcfar

[Adeejay]

No way they last. Lauren complained on Kimmel that Ben's a heavy mouth breather, prays too loudly and tries to wake her up too early to spend time with her (but said she's trained him not to do that any more already). If that's her cute personaliity that production hid from us, I'm baffled by Ben's choice. It's way too soon to be that annoyed, especially about the way the supposed love of your life breathes. It's not like he can stop breathing...

 

 

I don't believe these two are as happy as they'd have us believe.  I just re-watched the coming attractions, and some of the scenes were cut and/or edited.  For example, when Ben said goodbye to his F2, he totally pulled a "Mesnick" in that he broke down and wailed, "I just sent home a woman that I love, I think I might have made a huge mistake."  Interestingly, also omitted from last night's finale was the scene where he was shown hugging a brunette and declaring, "I am happiest when I am with her."  Lauren comes across as confident and secure, but I read an interview in US Weekly where Ben claimed that his F1 wasn't happy with his behavior on the show, and that he "put her through hell."  They both seem like good people, so I hope they make it, but only time will tell.

[MissE]

I think JoJo was duped by Ben into thinking she was the F1 when he told her he loved her during the F3 date and then all the way up until the moment he told her he also loved Lauren too.  JoJo knew that the guy isn't supposed to say I love you back, so for him to break the rules and say that to her would be very very misleading.  Sure he eventually told her, but at the very end of the process, after repeatedly telling her he loved her.  She was duped up until that point, and then by the time of the Final Rose ceremony she had at least a better understanding of what Ben was up to.  

Again though, he never told her that she was his final choice, and Lauren figured out pretty quickly that he told JoJo he loved her too. Ben was more honest to JoJo then any of the other bachelor's had been. If JoJo thought Lauren had no chance, then that's on her.

[yorklee2]

 

The speech she gave on the show and saying she prayed when she came back home after Ben?  Weird.  It was obvious they had chosen her as the

Why would that be weird? Her instagram has pics of bible/inspirational quotes so I don't find it surprising that she would say that. Actually that's just one more reason that she might have been a better match for Ben. Especially if he "prays to loud" for Lauren's taste.

[yorklee2]

 

Beyond whether it's morally defensible (which I really don't care about), we've heard time and again that the Lead "isn't allowed to say that" even as there's tremendous pressure on the F4/F3 to say it to the Lead.  So I can't fault JoJo for interpreting those words from Ben as the biggest wink-and-nod of all time.

Seems like this show broke a lot of long standing rules this season. Not only did Ben break the rule of saying I love you he broke it twice. Then for the first time since way back in Trista's season we got a lead who finished F2.

 

So does that mean that every lead is now going to feel it's ok to say ILY before the final rose? And I don't think the show realized they opened a can of worms with picking the F2. I foresee a lot of backlash and outcry since now they can't fall back on the excuse that a contestant can't be picked because he/she was F2. I can hear it now, "they've done it before they can do it again".

[b2H]

Yeah, I hope Lauren's fine with being his new mommy and talking him off the ledge on a regular basis, or whatever it was that his mom said he needs. I wish them luck, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm starting to think he has reason to feel unlovable.

 

Yay for Jojo being the Bachelorette! I think she's a natural on camera and the men will go crazy for her for sure.

I talk my husband off the ledge all the time; so does my daughter with her husband.  It seems to come with the territory.

[Vinyasa]

I didn't  watch the entire  season very closely but what is the deal with "you're my person"? 

 

Can someone be a "non-person"??? (ha-ha)

Edited March 15, 2016 by Vinyasa

[b2H]

Yes! I think she'll be a lot of fun. When (abouts) does it start?

I think I heard or read somewhere that filming for her season starts this Thursday.

 

I also believe Bachelor in Paradise will take place before her season does, but on that one I'm less certain.

[jette]

I fully expected Ben to come back for ATFR and tell Jojo that his love for her was the Philia or friendship type of love (mixed in with a bit of Eros or physical) but that his love for Lauren was Agape* love which is what he needs to feel for a marriage partner. It's Biblical, so Jojo might appreciate the explanation.

 

I know Jojo shared in a talking head that her love language is words of affirmation - if she also confided this to Ben, then his declaration of love was really inappropriate.

 

*selfless, which I'm not sure Ben Higgins can muster, though he is a spiritual man. Clearly, he felt Eros for both women...

[b2H]

Do they always pick the losers as the Bachelorettes?  How boring.  I find JoJo completely boring and not that attractive.  She wasn't in love with Ben, she was in love with the show, in love with being on TV.  The speech she gave on the show and saying she prayed when she came back home after Ben?  Weird.  It was obvious they had chosen her as the Bachelorette.   No surprises for this show.  I can't watch anymore.

Remember back to her hometown visit.  This seems to be a family trait.  One of her brothers (or maybe more of them) had done a reality show a few years back.  So she knows what she's in for.  This is not going to be all that difficult and, should it not work out, she could do a season or more of BIP.  She's got a cushy job whether she stays in the Bachelor franchise or not.

 

Interesting how, in this season, both finals had a decent, good paying job (JoJo is a real estate developer and Lauren, a flight attendent with Alaska Airlines).  No 'aesthetics specialist' or 'model' nonsense here.

[huahaha]

Regarding Ben's mom, I wonder if she has any reservations about him picking Lauren? She seemed happen for him tonight but it could have been trying to put a good face on it. Obviously the clip of her preferring JoJo was leaked somehow and was never meant to be aired. That's why it was took down only 1 day after being posted.

 

It's an official clip, not a leak. You can still see it on Hulu. 

[hyacinth]

LIke I wrote about in a recent Huffington Post article about the "relationship success" stats for the various Bachelors and Bachelorettes, and in my book about how frustrating online dating can be for women (Eaten Alive: The Truth About Online Dating for Women), men have a difficult time when given numerous dating/mate choices.  Studies have shown that men, when given more alternatives, display decreased commitment-related behavior.  (Quelle surprise!)   

 

Ben actually now seems to be fully committed; the question is, was that soon enough for Lauren B. (And exactly how annoying is his loud mouth breathing?  :-)) 

 

When does the Bachelorette start?  Guess I'll catch you all again then.  It's been fun to share my Bachelor hobby (obsession) on this message board.  Most of my friends and family, um, don't seem to understand.  :-)   I actually have seen men's eyes cloud over on dates when I mention watching The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.  (I never admit to having watched BIP. Or Flavor Flav. Or Rock of Love.) 

Edited March 15, 2016 by hyacinth

[Alapaki]

Ben said so many bizarre things on ATFR but the one comment that really stood out to me was him mentioning that he'd be "relevant for another ten minutes." Again, what? Such an odd thing to say. I found myself immediately looking at Lauren to see what her reaction was to that comment.

 

 

I actually took that comment to be tongue-in-cheek/self-effacing, as in "everyone get on camera now, because the gravy train's pulling into the station!"

[amcfar]

I didn't  watch the entire  season very closely but what is the deal with "you're my person"? 

 

Can someone be a "non-person"??? (ha-ha)

I think it started becoming a "thing" on Grey's Anatomy.

I'm currently watching Season Four of Everwood (2006) and it was said on there as well.

I think the gist of it is that they'll always care for and rely on that person, no matter what life happens to brings their way.

[Artsda]

 

Unless they didn't show a scene of Ben telling JoJo that he was choosing her, then she was not duped. She was well aware of how this show works, and that she had a 50/50 chance of being dumped.

Saying "I an't imagine my life without you" is a tad on the misleading side. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

It's an official clip, not a leak. You can still see it on Hulu.

Yes, I posted a youtube link to Ben's mother being forced by Show to say whom she preferred, in the last episode's thread. You can still see it.

  

I actually took that comment to be tongue-in-cheek/self-effacing, as in "everyone get on camera now, because the gravy train's pulling into the station!"

Yes. Ben said the relevant comment as a quip back to Chris Harrison: Chris said they had ten more minutes left of the show (when Ben asked if he could say something about his Bachelor experience) and Ben said, that's about how much longer I'll be relevant. I actually thought it was pretty funny and self-deprecating, not to mention quick.

[kira28]

 

I think JoJo was duped by Ben into thinking she was the F1 when he told her he loved her during the F3 date and then all the way up until the moment he told her he also loved Lauren too.  JoJo knew that the guy isn't supposed to say I love you back, so for him to break the rules and say that to her would be very very misleading.  Sure he eventually told her, but at the very end of the process, after repeatedly telling her he loved her.  She was duped up until that point, and then by the time of the Final Rose ceremony she had at least a better understanding of what Ben was up to.

Totally agree! While he sort of clued her in when he told her that he had told Lauren he loved her too (and I almost think at  this point Jo Jo knew Ben wasn't going to pick her and hence the reason she was so nervous when meeting Ben for the final rose) but up until that point I think Jo Jo thought Ben's I love you (since he wasn't allowed to say that and pretty much in the last few years no one has said that (if she's watched the Bachelor) was so special and that he felt so strongly about her that he couldn't help  himself and had to tell her and it was his way of telling her that she was the one. It was realistic IMO for her to feel that way. At the same time he's telling her she's his best friend, he feels most deeply about her, that he can't imagine life without her. All things that would make a woman believe a man she's in love with feels the same way in return. So I understand why she was blindsided. I know its the whole premise of the show to lead one woman on but an actual nice guy would have been more concerned about the rejected woman's feelings. He let Caila go because he couldn't tell her he loved her.. he should have been more careful with Jo Jo's feelings. I'm sure she could care less now that she has the Bachelorette gig!

[UsernameFatigue]

I did see a red flag when she said a few times that she wanted people to be jealous of her relationship like she had been jealous of others.

 

Wow, I don't even remember that or I just filed it away as one of the many reasons I have never liked Jo-Jo. As much as others have talked about Caila's problems, Jo-Jo to me has always come across as desperate. I also cringed when she said that Ben made her feel safe. Safe from what? It reminded me of when I got married, and our minister wanted to include as part of our ceremony a passage about it being a man's job to take care of his wife. I refused and told him that we take care of each other and are equal partners, so he rewrote the ceremony to include that.

 

As far as wanting people to be jealous of her relationship? How juvenille. I have many girlfriends (both single and married) who have told me either that they wish they could find a guy like my hubby or were married to a guy like my hubby. It has never made me feel happy that they don't have what I have - it has made me feel blessed that I am lucky to be married to such a wonderful man.

 

As far as Jo-Jo's look, I agree with others who have said she needs to get a new hair style. I detest middle parts that are crooked and Jo-Jo's hair part in the last epi was jutting out all over the place. When she had her head down when Ben was dumping her all I could think was that she got all dressed up for what might be the day she gets engaged and she couldn't even part her hair straight. Ugh.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have had partners who have made me feel safe.  It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't felt that way with a partner, I think, but you sort of feel invincible if you have a partner who seems unafraid of the things you are and/or you think will protect you at all costs.  Even my house makes me feel safe.  I don't think that makes me weak or anything.

 

As far as wanting people to be jealous of her relationship? How juvenille. I have many girlfriends (both single and married) who have told me either that they wish they could find a guy like my hubby or were married to a guy like my hubby. It has never made me feel happy that they don't have what I have - it has made me feel blessed that I am lucky to be married to such a wonderful man.

 

So.... maybe that's exactly the feeling that Jojo wants to experience too?  You are kind of illustrating her point here.

 

I kind of hate this about reality television; someone says something in the heat of the moment and it's picked apart as if it represents their entire character in some negative way.  I can understand if someone is constantly saying things that predicts a pattern, but these are just little statements made here and there.... 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[amcfar]

I actually took that comment to be tongue-in-cheek/self-effacing, as in "everyone get on camera now, because the gravy train's pulling into the station!"

  

Yes. Ben said the relevant comment as a quip back to Chris Harrison: Chris said they had ten more minutes left of the show (when Ben asked if he could say something about his Bachelor experience) and Ben said, that's about how much longer I'll be relevant. I actually thought it was pretty funny and self-deprecating, not to mention quick.

Yeah, I get that he was being humorous. However, I do think it tied into the "me, me, me" (or as Ben would say: "I, I, I") theme that has been carried throughout the duration of this season. I'd be curious to know how many times he said "me" or "I" versus "we" or "us" on ATFR.

Never mind me. I'm clearly putting way too much thought into this show. Ha!

[Andromeda]

As a flight attendant, Lauren has been trained to stay calm, follow instructions and don't deviate from the plan.  So, of COURSE she's moving to Denver, because her little career is meaningless next to Ben's stellar whatever sales thing he does for whoever he does it for.  I think she'll play her puppet fiancee part as well as Whitney did with Chris, and I think they'll end up the same way.  But without the huge bucks Chris got for DWTS and with Ben distracted by some brunette.

Lauren lucked out. Denver is a major airline hub. United and Frontier both fly out of there. I don't know what airline she flies for, but she'll also have direct flights to Portland (I've flown that route many times.) Big benefit that she's a flight attendant, rather than something a lot more specifically located (like a doctor with a practice or some such.) Otherwise it should be Ben who moves.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Alaska, isn't it?

[UsernameFatigue]

So.... maybe that's exactly the feeling that Jojo wants to experience too?  You are kind of illustrating her point here.

 

No, I am saying the exact opposite. I have never wanted people to feel jealous of my relationship because I am not that kind of person. Jo-Jo is. According to Jo-Jo.

 

As far as her 'safe' comment goes, it isn't that I don't understand the concept. My hubby does make me feel safe, and vice versa. As does my home which is my favourite place to be. But Jo-Jo is saying this about someone she has known for all of two months, and has spend almost no time with (in relation to what would be a normal dating situation). Which is why I say she is in love with being in love. Which is why she will likely make a great bachlorette as she can be in love with many guys.

Edited March 15, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[MakeMeLaugh]

Yeah, I get that he was being humorous. However, I do think it tied into the "me, me, me" (or as Ben would say: "I, I, I") theme that has been carried throughout the duration of this season. I'd be curious to know how many times he said "me" or "I" versus "we" or "us" on ATFR.

Never mind me. I'm clearly putting way too much thought into this show. Ha!

Well, he actually was the Bachelor and it was his show for his journey to find true love--kidding, but I liked him a lot as the Bachelor (unlike apparently almost everyone else, inclding the recapper), so that didn't bother me in the least. I thought he was funny and a nice guy.

[laugard]

With regards to the moving, I think Ben would've been criticized by some people either way, so hopefully they decided together what was best for them as a couple. To detractors, Lauren's moving, so of course that's her being the meek girlfriend giving in to what he wants because Ben's needs are more important. Meanwhile, if he moved to LA, there would probably be people calling him a famewhore looking to extend his ten minutes of fame. People will judge or make assumptions either way, so hopefully they did what's right for them.

[StatisticalOutlier]

Beyond that, I'm tired of [JoJo's] awful grammatical mistakes. She never gets her pronouns right (he/him, me/I),

 

At one point, she said blah blah blah "his feelings for her compared to his feelings for mine."  Some people are just terrified of the word "me."

[JudyObscure]

JoJo not only said she wanted to make her friends jealous, the night before the proposal, once she realized that he might  pick Lauren, her biggest concern was not losing the man she loved but "looking foolish," and "naïve."  I do think she was in love with Ben, the same way she had probably been in love with Chad and other guys, but I also thought she was a little bit wrong reasons from the first to the last and that was why her first concern was how she was coming across on TV.

 

JoJo is pretty and "hot," but in comparison to the tall, slender Lauren, JoJo could look a little bit Neanderthal -- low forehead, broad back, a little bit short and stumpy.   I really got tired of the backless clothes making it so very obvious that she wasn't wearing a bra, even for her visit to Ben's parents. Unlike Ben's mother, JoJo just isn't my style, so I may not be able to watch a whole season of her trying way too hard to be sexy.

 

I have high hopes for Ben and Lauren.  I'm a great believer in the thunderbolt and when Ben said that the moment  Lauren got out of the limo, "the world stopped,"  I thought she was the one.  I think he will stay in love with her.  I'm not as sure about her, but if he makes some improvements -- I hate it when  men  lead prayers like it's the football huddle at the game, myself -- then they might make it.

[Rainsong]

-I type this having not watched AFTR (somewhat intentionally) and only a single viewing of the finale.  The terms ‘good’ and ‘bad’ seem to lose their meaning or even swap places (eg so bad it’s good) when discussing the players, scenarios and outcomes of reality TV but they are handier than ‘enjoyable’ etc.

 

-I’ve always tended to lose interest as the field narrowed because the choice is usually obvious.  Then there is the numbing repetition of taped footage or the same thoughts from the same three people.  It’s much more interesting when there’s competition, resentment, etc. along with the Bachelor’s kid-in-a-candy-store giddiness as his hormones melt his brain.

 

-Given the point above, the Lauren choice was so apparent for so long that she and Ben didn’t (or couldn’t) do much to convince themselves or us otherwise, nor did the producers.  Lauren’s claim of uncertainty rang a bit hollow although the self-doubt gene seems perpetually dominant in women and I believe her tears were down to nothing more than big-match nerves.

 

-JoJo was as sympathetic a character as any runner-up has ever been.  Her combination of diffidence, guile and raw sex appeal had Ben on tenterhooks throughout the show.  She was never more honest than at Wrigley Field when she questioned aloud her preparedness and willingness to risk emotional hurt.  It was doubly cruel for her to commit so late in the game only to face a worst-case scenario.

 

-Ben’s choice was logical but also a bit cowardly and rash.  I am convinced that had this show run another month he very well might have changed his mind and/or his heart.  From his neck up, Ben saw ‘his person’ in Lauren.  Blonde, fair, petite, etc.  He could easily envision them together on their Christmas cards, in countless selfies, in a wedding, in a birthing suite, etc.  In his eager-to-please quest she was a safe bet to take home to his domineering mother and, as someone who deals with the troublesome and unpredictable public every day at work, Lauren could and would have Mom eating out of her hand.

 

-The dark/light dichotomy of the two finalists could not be more appropriate, since JoJo presented the antithesis of Lauren’s anodyne safety.  JoJo was openly conflicted and presented a challenge – in other words, she was irresistible to the male’s primal hunter/gatherer instinct.  Of course, it didn’t hurt that her physique – not too bony, not too curvy, muscle tone but no sinew and a skin tone handed down from the gods (and blissfully free of clumsy graffiti that would deface her gift) – would have any male’s eyes on stalks.  If she was going to fall at the final hurdle she would do so in a gown that a mere handful of contestants in the entire history of the show would dare try on, let alone wear throughout the day.

 

-Fair play to her for attempting to get some uncensored honesty from Ben in the hotel bathroom.  I honestly thought she was leading him to the bed chamber – in my mind, she would have pipped Lauren at the post through purely physical means but she had more self-respect than that.  Although fascinating to eavesdrop on the pair I thought they deserved some privacy and wished they’d had the sense to run a faucet or the shower which would have stymied the sound recordist.

 

-JoJo’s lengthy sales pitches seemed genuine but, in hindsight, also a rather obvious tip-off that she knew the end was nigh.  She probably regrets them now especially as Ben was mostly unresponsive (another tip-off) but half measures aren’t her style.

 

-JoJo’s lament about competition may have rung true in the Bachelor hothouse but as a red-blooded male it defies credulity to imagine that she would have any trouble attracting an army of suitors.

 

-It probably isn’t coincidence that since Chris Harrison obtained a producer credit that this show has become absolutely penurious.  The dates, the locales, the activities and the food (even if uneaten) simply must be improved by prying the wallet open again.  They are damaging their own prospects for recruiting contestants since the prospective contestants see the same old properties in the same old countries (a result of quid pro quo advertising deals) and hear the stories of boredom, isolation, etc. from Bachelor alums.

 

-By the same token, faulty and/or inadequate recruiting is defeating the very purpose of the show.  It’s all very well to blow-dry and dress up 20-25 women but when all but 4-5 of them are obvious no-hopers (or cast simply for comedy, emotional upheaval or almost certain bad behavior)  the suspense factor drops early and rarely recovers.  If you read between the lines during the show you will note the Bachelor’s dissatisfaction with his choices as expressed in ambiguous language and when he damns certain girls with faint praise.  ‘Susan is unusual and I haven’t met someone like her before’…’I’m not sure what I’m getting with Beth’…’I haven’t really gotten to know Jane yet’…’Julie intrigued me on the first night but we haven’t talked much since then’…etc.  Perhaps the most reliable signal that the Bachelor isn’t interested is when he says ‘I’m looking forward to spending more time with XYZ’ instead of ‘I can’t wait to see XYZ again’ or ‘XYZ is a knockout.’

 

-If the producers won’t improve the raw ingredients then they need to find a way to improve each contestant’s chances of getting a fair crack of the whip above and beyond date cards and the inviolate rule of ‘Can I steal Ben for a minute?’  If these women are going to dedicate such a significant portion of their lives exclusively shouldn’t they get an opportunity to compete properly?  Perhaps Ben/Lauren was inevitable but Jennifer, for example, might have been a distinct possibility had she ever had a ghost of a chance to interact with Ben beyond their rather productive first encounter.

 

-On one hand I’m glad she’s the Bachelorette over Caila…I’ve gone from ‘not watching’ to ‘watching with fervent interest’…but given the quality of Bachelors recruited over the years I don’t relish the prospect of her choosing Mr. Kind Of Right simply because she feels obligated to do so.  I was dubious about Caila because she had a single mode of talking, interacting, etc.  I think the producers noticed this too, noticed the audience reaction to JoJo from both males and females, watched and valued JoJo's emotional intelligence and ability to express herself in the final stages and made the switch.  Based on cursory research elsewhere, Caila was not best pleased with the change but will be participating in BIP which is probably more her speed anyway.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Rainsong

[Pixie Chicken]

Ben may or may not be a cad... but when he's said so many times that he just can't possibly choose between the two women, I start to get suspicious. It was pretty clearly Lauren from the start, and given that the F2 was given the Bachelorette lead even with the quick shooting turnaround, I firmly believe JoJo was in on the narrative -- as in, "play along, and we'll give you be the lead." I'd go so far as to say that even the FS morning after was totally staged.

My guess is that Lauren knew it too, pretty early on. Call me a cynic, but I doubt very much that Ben was as torn as he said. I think it was manipulated for maximum drama, and JoJo being named Bachelorette only makes me more convinced.

[scenicbyway]

Ben is fairly immature and I think Lauren will mother him, like he seems to need.  I guess I wonder if he told her he loved her in the spur of the moment and the producers had a fit and made him say to JoJo as well to even things out.

[slowpoked]

Alaska, isn't it?

Yes, she works for Alaska Airlines. 

 

I think from the moving perspective, this has a shot of working just because Lauren's job doesn't need for her to be grounded. She can easily move to Denver and does not have to worry about actually changing employers.

 

That alone, they have way more of a shot at making this work than Chris and Whitney. Whitney was never going to move to the farm. And I really don't blame her for not doing so. 

[b2H]

I don't know what airline she flies for, but she'll also have direct flights to Portland (I've flown that route many times.)

 

 

She flies Alaska Airlines, so she should be perfectly fine.  She would be in bigger trouble if she flew a more regional airline.  But AA has a presence in Denver, should she choose to go back to work.

[greyhorse]

JoJo looked hot in the peek-a-boo cleavage dress on ATFR.  I don't think anybody was surprised with Chris announcing her as the next Bachelorette, although for a split second when he stood up and started looking offstage for presumably the next Ette to walk in, I got worried.  You could see JoJo maybe crack a little smile and also looked offstage - she played her part well.  I will definitely be watching!

 

I don't think Ben is the most interesting character.  I understand why he gets a lot of criticism here as being self-absorbed, etc.  But aren't all the Bachelors/ettes a little bit into themselves?  They have to be, otherwise we wouldn't watch.  I think he's way better than Juan Pablo or some of the other kooks that have had the coveted spot before.

 

I didn't really get the reason for the re-proposal in front of the audience and family members.  I think most people who get engaged don't do it in front of family, no?  What was wrong with the first real engagement?

[DEL901]

I didn't like how JoJo told Ben's family that she had a checklist of what she wanted in a husband and Ben met every requirement.  That's what got Mesnick in trouble.  He picked the one that was good on paper.  I do feel bad for her because supposedly no lead ever says I love you until the last rose ceremony (I say supposedly because Ashley admitted she told JP that she loved him before the end), so how was she to know he was an ILY whore.

 

Also amused that Ben inadventently spoiled the ending by saying in an interview that when he proposed that F1 didn't know that he said ILY to both women... and then on Monday's episode, he clearly tells JoJo.

 

I liked when Lauren came out and said that she was looking forward to dating Ben for a while.  Sensible.

[Sup wit dat]

I'm glad Ben picked Lauren. I think she's beautiful and classy. It seemed like she was his f1 for most of the show until the FS. I think Jojo must've been pretty great in the fantasy suite to briefly distract Ben.

Jojo's boobs as the 'ette will be great! Srsly, you know we're gonna be seeing those every. Single. Shot. Guess it's a great way to get the guys drooling and tripping over themselves! She seems down to earth but that family she has...a smarmy representation of affluence, lol! I don't know how someone like Jojo came out of that cuz she seems genuine. The only thing is I hope she stops the gravelly smoker's voice. It's nasty sounding.

Once Jojo rides off into the sunset with her f1 I think we'll see her mom on Intervention.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Ben is fairly immature and I think Lauren will mother him, like he seems to need. I guess I wonder if he told her he loved her in the spur of the moment and the producers had a fit and made him say to JoJo as well to even things out.

We didn't see a lot of what was filmed--no reason his declaration to Lauren and/or Jo could not have been edited out. Drama!

...

I didn't really get the reason for the re-proposal in front of the audience and family members. I think most people who get engaged don't do it in front of family, no? What was wrong with the first real engagement?

The show was running really long on time--it was filler. Edited March 15, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[CaughtOnTape]

I live in Denver, I work in Englewood and apparently he lives somewhere in Parker so I wouldn't doubt I'll run into him or her at some point.

 

A friend of a friend named Chase also left for his Bachelorette stint on Saturday.  Which seemed quick.  How long has it been since the finale?  JoJo is movin' on people!

[kathybgd]

I'm sure this has been mentioned I just don't want to read through all the comments, but they could of condensed this damn episode from 3 hours to 15 min. Also, I would of of left the jerk standing in Jamaica the minute he told me he loved the other! WOW!

I'm sure this has been mentioned I just don't want to read through all the comments, but they could of condensed this damn episode from 3 hours to 15 min. Also, I would of of left the jerk standing in Jamaica the minute he told me he loved the other! WOW!

[jette]

^^^ I know, right? Prying the ring off and then putting it back on before she'd even said yes was kind of silly.

[comosedice]

JoJo is pretty and "hot," but in comparison to the tall, slender Lauren, JoJo could look a little bit Neanderthal -- low forehead, broad back, a little bit short and stumpy.

 

This made me laugh because in my eyes and those of so many others Lauren the Chinless and Dead-eyed cannot hold a candle to Jojo, in appearance or personality. She personifies bland. Good for her though that in spite of these shortcomings Ben wanted her. I wonder if she reminds him of someone he wanted in the past and didn't get or someone he had a really good relationship with and wants to re-live that. Outside of the attraction, he never sought her out to discuss anything of meaning. Jojo was the one he would always go to calm him or hear her views on what was happening. He even said it more than once and to his parents. Anyway, I loved how the audience was more excited for Jojo being named the Bachelorette than seeing the new couple. Good luck to them.

Edited March 15, 2016 by comosedice

[leighdear]

I think it started becoming a "thing" on Grey's Anatomy.

I'm currently watching Season Four of Everwood (2006) and it was said on there as well.

I think the gist of it is that they'll always care for and rely on that person, no matter what life happens to brings their way.

On G.A., it came up when Christina Yang put Meredith Grey down as her "emergency contact person" for medical purposes.  Christina didn't have anybody else in her life that she was close enough to.  So Meredith became her "person".  Then it became a thing.  And other people co-opted it for their own thing. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by leighdear

[Vinyasa]

 

Interesting how, in this season, both finals had a decent, good paying job (JoJo is a real estate developer and Lauren, a flight attendent with Alaska Airlines).  No 'aesthetics specialist' or 'model' nonsense here.

I'm not sure how good paying a flight attendant job is but nothing wrong with it.  This show seems to use the same inflated job titles such as Sales Rep, Account Executive or Dentist (when she was really in dental school) and have to throw in the "dog lover", "free spirit" ones too.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Vinyasa

[scenicbyway]

I think Ben's second proposal might've been for his parent's benefit.  I was surprised to not see them hiding the woods or on kayaks nearby during the first proposal.  When he called Lauren's dad I thought for sure he was calling his parents to tell them he'd finally made up his mind...

[comosedice]

No, I am saying the exact opposite. I have never wanted people to feel jealous of my relationship because I am not that kind of person. Jo-Jo is. According to Jo-Jo.

 

No, you're not saying the opposite. Jojo prefaced her statement by saying she has looked at other people's relationship and been envious of what they had, meaning she would love to have a happy, healthy relationship like theirs. Then she said she would like others to look at what she and Ben have I feel the same way. That's how much she believed that what they had was a good thing and maybe others would want it too. Isn't this the essence of role-modeling. What is wrong with that? Why are people manufacturing reasons to demean and hate Jojo?  I also didn't think her family was as bad as others make them out to be. Her brothers are protective of her, so?

[snorca]

 

They need to stop with this JoJo was blindsided crap. JoJo knew full well that she had a 50/50 chance of getting dumped. She was not blindsided.

Yes! I kept saying out loud to the TV..I know..don't judge...they need to retire "being blindsided" from this show. You are all adults and you know what you're signing up for. Only one person will be left at the end!

[JudyObscure]

This made me laugh because in my eyes and those of so many others Lauren the Chinless and Dead-eyed cannot hold a candle to Jojo, in appearance or personality.

LOL.  I wrote that post about JoJo's "shortcomings," partly in response to all the people drooling over how hot, hot, hot  JoJo is and saying that Ben must surely have been more physically turned on by her than Lauren.  I agree about Lauren's chin and don't think she's a raving beauty either, but  she definitely  is taller, more slender, and has a cuter rear than the thick necked, low-browed JoJo, so I don't think it's a given that Ben only chose Lauren because she was nicer or something.  If he was really more physically drawn to JoJo then I think he would have picked her. Who picks a woman he doesn't want to sleep with? All men don't have the same taste and I know my husband would take tall and slender over short and jut-jawed any day.  I think her father's money bought most of her good looks from the implants and perma-tan, to the thousand dollar dresses.