Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[DoctorAtomic]

Chexton is totally going to Tufts on a lacrosse scholarship. 

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

This all sounds like way too much work. 

It's actually an effort to reduce work if I'm remembering the evolution correctly.  I'm pretty sure shipper names were a result of not wanting to type out the two characters' names over and over and over again.  Originally, people online would just use the initials so 90s couples would be X&T or even XY and then people got more clever, eliminated the ampersand and mushed them up together. It was the mushed up names that jumped to real life lingo and that has always struck me as strange.

But online? I was always a fan of streamlining.

[DoctorAtomic]

If making up some ridiculousness to save 7 keystrokes isn't the definition of the internet I don't know what is. 

[Haleth]

17 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

If making up some ridiculousness to save 7 keystrokes isn't the definition of the internet I don't know what is. 

R U sure?

[kiddo82]

11 hours ago, Haleth said:

R U sure?

I c what u did there.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/29/2020 at 12:19 PM, BlackberryJam said:

I know Firefly was at a minimum not supported and possibly purposefully tanked.

As far as the scheduling thing for Firefly, if you look at the network schedules for that season there were no good options for a show like that. If I remember correctly, not having it on Friday would require Fox to move an actual successful show to Friday (like American Idol) or put it up against a huge show on another channel or put it up against Star Trek on UPN or Angel on WB (and if they did that Whedon would probably still be crying about it).

[DoctorAtomic]

That's fair, but iirc they made Whedon make an entirely new pilot episode and showed the episodes out of the intended order. 

For me, it was up against Farscape, my true love. Back then, I could actually only watch/record (on a tape!) one show at a time. 

[Browncoat]

20 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That's fair, but iirc they made Whedon make an entirely new pilot episode and showed the episodes out of the intended order. 

For me, it was up against Farscape, my true love. Back then, I could actually only watch/record (on a tape!) one show at a time. 

Obviously a Firefly fan here -- I had to watch live because my VCR didn't recognize the channel it was on here (it was higher than channel 13, and I didn't have cable/satellite at the time).

[Ambrosefolly]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As far as the scheduling thing for Firefly, if you look at the network schedules for that season there were no good options for a show like that. If I remember correctly, not having it on Friday would require Fox to move an actual successful show to Friday (like American Idol) or put it up against a huge show on another channel or put it up against Star Trek on UPN or Angel on WB (and if they did that Whedon would probably still be crying about it).

If I remember correctly, X Files was in a bad time slot in its first season, either Friday or Saturday night, but it did so well that it was moved to a better time slot and ended up staying there. The best thing to do for a show is no matter what day it is on, just leave it there and show the episodes. You you might move it, if it is successful or completely tanking, but don't get spotty with showing it.

[Mabinogia]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

For me, it was up against Farscape, my true love. Back then, I could actually only watch/record (on a tape!) one show at a time. 

I would take Farscape over Firefly any day. I liked Firefly when it was on, but I am not bothered by the fact it didn't last long and I don't really rewatch it. It was one of those shows that was fine. I got into Farscape long after it's original airing and fell in love almost immediately. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I wouldn't go out unless I watched Farscape. 

[proserpina65]

On 6/2/2020 at 4:52 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

But who set them? Every day social media was deluged from TPTBs et al., about how the final season was the best thing ever and they filmed for 60027 cuzilliondy days at night for 25 hours don't you know? They worked so hard so you have to like it or you (us viewers) don't get it!

Showrunners are their own worst enemies.

It's ironic because the show itself has its own words to heed - And any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all.'

If they shut their traps and just said 'we worked really hard on the last season and really hope you all like it,' the backlash would have been minimal.

I remember commenting on an FB page about how tired I was of the show and it wouldn't air for another 4 months.

 

 

The fans set their own expectations.

[proserpina65]

On 5/29/2020 at 2:41 AM, kathyk2 said:

I disagree there are many ways a sabotage a new show. First scheduling a new show against the most popular show at that time. For example putting my beloved Reaper in the same time slot as NCIS and American Idol. Reaper didn't stand a chance. Promoting one new show over another and inconsistent scheduling. ABC did this with the Muppets reboot. They took a two month break and then changed the time slot. 

That is the case for some shows (Reaper is a great example) but most of the time it's simply because the show did not appeal to enough viewers.

On 5/29/2020 at 12:19 PM, BlackberryJam said:

I know Firefly was at a minimum not supported and possibly purposefully tanked.

I love Firefly, but it was a niche show at best.  Yes, FOX didn't know how to market or schedule what they had, but even aired in order in the best possible time slot, it wasn't going to appeal to a large enough audience to last more than a season or two.  As a space Western, it was too much of one or the other to attract a lot of viewers on a regular network.

On 5/29/2020 at 4:40 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Networks don't actually produce the shows though. 

They pony up the money most of the time, or buy the shows.  Their intention is to make money by airing a show.

 

[proserpina65]

On 6/6/2020 at 3:43 PM, Annber03 said:

Yeah, my biggest issue with portmanteaus is that many of my favorite ships don't really lend themselves all that well to good ship names :p. Either their names are too short to where it seems pointless to smush them together, or there's just not really a creative enough name for them. 

I do agree that the whole "name smushing" thing in general is a bit goofy-it just reminds me too much of the whole "Brangelina" thing. I prefer to just use people's actual individual names and leave it at that. But I do agree there can be some clever and amusing portmanteaus out there, yes, and if people don't take them too seriously, then I'm cool with it. 

I agree in general, but I did love "Shamy" though.

 

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I agree in general, but I did love "Shamy" though.

 

They should only be allowed if it makes an actual words. Because the actual words ones aren't so bad. For this example, shamy is close enough to count as an actual word.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think Firefly would have lasted more than maybe three either, but it's about being allowed to tell the story you want to tell and end the show how you want. From the jump, the network kept poking around. 

It's just a bad look on the network's part. 

[slf]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't think Firefly would have lasted more than maybe three either, but it's about being allowed to tell the story you want to tell and end the show how you want. From the jump, the network kept poking around. 

It's just a bad look on the network's part. 

Given where Whedon intended to take the show w/r/t Inara (sacrificial gang rape, yay!), it's probably for the best that the network did intervene (even if it wasn't for that reason).

[Danny Franks]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:01 PM, Mabinogia said:

I would take Farscape over Firefly any day. I liked Firefly when it was on, but I am not bothered by the fact it didn't last long and I don't really rewatch it. It was one of those shows that was fine. I got into Farscape long after it's original airing and fell in love almost immediately. 

Farscape was far more imaginative and creative than Firefly, and certainly captured my attention. I watched the first few episodes but then lost track and came back to watch Nerve. It was a gamechanger, because it introduced me to Chiana, who I immediately loved, and introduced everyone to Scorpius, a villain who was worthy of the show.

And my unpopular opinion there is one I've mentioned before - John and Aeryn ended up boring me. I loved them in the first couple of seasons, but the cascade of emotional turmoil at the end of season three really killed most of my interest in them as a couple.

I wanted John to have a fling with Sikozu in season 4, as their chemistry felt fresh and exciting, while John and Aeryn just felt... dull and weighed down by everything that had happened.

3 hours ago, slf said:

Given where Whedon intended to take the show w/r/t Inara (sacrificial gang rape, yay!), it's probably for the best that the network did intervene (even if it wasn't for that reason).

This is one of the reasons I think fans should be glad that Firefly was cancelled, and we can all remember it rosily. Whether Whedon had gone through with an idea like that or not, his track record for pushing tragedy and misery would absolutely have taken over that show, and even the Mal/Inara 'will they, won't they' would have become utterly unbearable, as they both had views that were utterly in opposition - Mal would never have been able to accept Inara's job, Inara would never see why she should give it up just to please him. They would never, ever be happy together, and it would be increasingly annoying to watch.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

11 hours ago, slf said:

Given where Whedon intended to take the show w/r/t Inara (sacrificial gang rape, yay!), it's probably for the best that the network did intervene (even if it wasn't for that reason).

Was Firefly ever pitched to any other lower tier networks or cable channels that showed an interest? Like the kind that would offer less money but also have lower expectations. Back when I had time for that sort of thing, I remember watching a bunch of DVD sets for short lived tv shows. One of the common things I would hear on commentaries was creators saying they were made an offer from a lower level network but took the offer from the big network even though it was higher risk. For the Clerk's cartoon UPN made Kevin Smith an offer. It was less money but a bigger episode order. He went with ABC because it was considered a bigger network and more prestigious. He even said that if he went with UPN he would have probably got a whole season, while with ABC two episodes made it on TV. So it stories like that where it makes me hard to feel bad on behalf of creators, when their high risk shows get canned early.

[Bort]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Was Firefly ever pitched to any other lower tier networks or cable channels that showed an interest?

I’m pretty sure it was, though back then only WB and UPN were viable options. Cable channels weren’t really in the game for that yet, and the ones that were, wouldn’t have gone for something that needed such a big FX budget. 

[slf]

It seems like Syfy would've been a good option. Firefly premiered in '02 which is the same year Stargate SG1 switched to Syfy from Showtime, which required just as much if not more special effects. A year or two later is when Syfy picked up Battlestar Galactica, which also required a ton of effects and featured a Firefly shoutout in it's premiere.

11 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Was Firefly ever pitched to any other lower tier networks or cable channels that showed an interest? Like the kind that would offer less money but also have lower expectations. Back when I had time for that sort of thing, I remember watching a bunch of DVD sets for short lived tv shows. One of the common things I would hear on commentaries was creators saying they were made an offer from a lower level network but took the offer from the big network even though it was higher risk. For the Clerk's cartoon UPN made Kevin Smith an offer. It was less money but a bigger episode order. He went with ABC because it was considered a bigger network and more prestigious. He even said that if he went with UPN he would have probably got a whole season, while with ABC two episodes made it on TV. So it stories like that where it makes me hard to feel bad on behalf of creators, when their high risk shows get canned early.

I always wondered if one of the reasons Whedon went with Fox was his long-running complaint that Buffy would've gotten more awards had it aired on a bigger network.

[proserpina65]

On ‎06‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 6:48 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't think Firefly would have lasted more than maybe three either, but it's about being allowed to tell the story you want to tell and end the show how you want. From the jump, the network kept poking around. 

It's just a bad look on the network's part. 

Oh, I don't disagree.

[Neurochick]

My UO about reality shows:

Everybody who goes on a reality show goes there to promote themselves.  And I don't have a problem with it.

If you go on a reality TV show today, people WILL snark on you, either on Twitter/YouTube/Reddit/Facebook/Instagram and even here at Primetimer.  So if a person knows they'll get slammed, they might as well be compensated for their trouble.  So if they want to sell some kind of product, the go for it because the shelf life of a reality TV "star" is very short, they need to take advantage while they can.

[Neurochick]

On 6/10/2020 at 1:09 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

If I remember correctly, X Files was in a bad time slot in its first season, either Friday or Saturday night, but it did so well that it was moved to a better time slot and ended up staying there. The best thing to do for a show is no matter what day it is on, just leave it there and show the episodes. You you might move it, if it is successful or completely tanking, but don't get spotty with showing it.

X Files was originally on Friday night.  The first season did not do well at all.  What happened was FOX really didn't have anything to air during the summer, so they aired repeats of the first season that summer.  That's when people started watching, and then that's when the Internet started to take off.  I think X Files might have been the first TV show that benefited from the Internet.

[DoctorAtomic]

Even then, they still needed the move to Sunday. 

[bmoore4026]

The Nanny is the best sitcom to have debuted in the 90s.  Also, Just Shoot Me is very underrated.

Also The Handmaid's Tale is camp in its purest form, or rather has become such.  Now if there was just a stealthy way to keyword it on IMDB in its ironic form.

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

The Nanny is the best sitcom to have debuted in the 90s.  Also, Just Shoot Me is very underrated.

I don't know about "best", but it definitely was entertaining, and that's pretty much what I want from a sitcom.  And yes, Just Shoot Me was very underrated.

[Zella]

We had a pretty nice little lovefest going on for Just Shoot Me recently in the "Land That Time Forgot" thread. I'd always been under the impression the show wasn't popular, so I enjoyed seeing other folks who enjoyed it as much as I did. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/16/2020 at 10:37 PM, Neurochick said:

X Files was originally on Friday night.  The first season did not do well at all.  What happened was FOX really didn't have anything to air during the summer, so they aired repeats of the first season that summer.  That's when people started watching, and then that's when the Internet started to take off.  I think X Files might have been the first TV show that benefited from the Internet.

Wasn't it also one of the first Vancouver shot shows to really hit it big? Until Duchovny whined and got them to move production to LA.

[Stats Queen]

12 hours ago, Zella said:

We had a pretty nice little lovefest going on for Just Shoot Me recently in the "Land That Time Forgot" thread. I'd always been under the impression the show wasn't popular, so I enjoyed seeing other folks who enjoyed it as much as I did. 

Love Just Shoot Me! Hubby and I have been watching it on Hulu. Still just as funny

[Hybridcookie]

I always thought Farscape was overrated and I HATED Crichton - I just found him really annoying.

I did love Aeryn though.

[Shannon L.]

I understand and appreciate what Watchmen was saying about systemic racism, but it was way to weird for me to really stay tuned in.  I did continue watching it because my son and husband were enjoying it, but I, personally, considered it too ridiculous (with the exception of a few scenes--the opening segment with the bombing being one.) and if it hadn't been for them, I probably wouldn't have gotten through it.  As it was, I kept drifting.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Hybridcookie said:

I always thought Farscape was overrated and I HATED Crichton - I just found him really annoying.

I did love Aeryn though.

I can see that. Some of his wisecracks really didn't help the situation. I remember one moment when he brought up John Wayne and Aeryn was confused. So he reels off a bunch of John Wayne movies instead of actually clarifying. No wonder the others thought he wasn't so hot in the brain department.

[DoctorAtomic]

Yeah, but when they landed on a swampy planet after the cloning, she quips, "It's like Dagobah, and your Yoda" which makes it all worth it. 

[paulvdb]

13 hours ago, Hybridcookie said:

I always thought Farscape was overrated and I HATED Crichton - I just found him really annoying.

I did love Aeryn though.

I recently did a rewatch and I agree. Crichton could be very annoying at times. And I liked it well enough, but I don't consider it the greatest show ever.

[Danny Franks]

15 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Yeah, but when they landed on a swampy planet after the cloning, she quips, "It's like Dagobah, and your Yoda" which makes it all worth it. 

Aeryn (and the others, but Aeryn in particular) trying to learn and understand all of his references and idioms was what made it work. It was a nice way of showing the growing bonds between the crew.

But really, I think a lot of that stuff originated in Crichton's 'fish out of water' character at the start of the show. The John Wayne bit seemed more of a nervous, verbal diarrhoea than him expecting Aeryn to understand what the hell he was talking about.  As he began to settle into life on Moya, he did it less, and by the latter seasons, he had more than enough references from all the various alien cultures and experiences to draw on as well.

[Anduin]

20 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

But really, I think a lot of that stuff originated in Crichton's 'fish out of water' character at the start of the show. The John Wayne bit seemed more of a nervous, verbal diarrhoea than him expecting Aeryn to understand what the hell he was talking about.  As he began to settle into life on Moya, he did it less, and by the latter seasons, he had more than enough references from all the various alien cultures and experiences to draw on as well.

Fair enough. It was an early ep I brought up. Haven't seen anything later in a long time. One day I'll get around to them.

[krankydoodle]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

Aeryn (and the others, but Aeryn in particular) trying to learn and understand all of his references and idioms was what made it work. It was a nice way of showing the growing bonds between the crew.

I still laugh about the scene with John, Aeryn, and Zhaan in a room of the spaceship discussing something when John gets frustrated and says he needs to leave to get some air and Aeryn in confusion and annoyance responds, "We have air in here!"

My UO is that I've found Amy Sedaris irritating in everything I've seen her in. To be fair, that only includes guest spots on The Closer, Monk, and The Mandalorian. I know she's an internet fave, but there's just something about her that I find grating.

[DoctorAtomic]

18 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

I still laugh about the scene with John, Aeryn, and Zhaan in a room of the spaceship discussing something when John gets frustrated and says he needs to leave to get some air and Aeryn in confusion and annoyance responds, "We have air in here!"

Zhaan [touches Aeryn's wrist sympathetically, exhales] - He is Crichton. 

The show fairly pointed out when wormholes were involved, John got a little crazy, then he had a chip in his head where he was terrorized by Scorpius to the point where he essentially killed Aeryn, so being annoying isn't OOC. 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[meep.meep]

On 6/16/2020 at 7:37 PM, Neurochick said:

X Files was originally on Friday night.  The first season did not do well at all.  What happened was FOX really didn't have anything to air during the summer, so they aired repeats of the first season that summer.  That's when people started watching, and then that's when the Internet started to take off.  I think X Files might have been the first TV show that benefited from the Internet.

If you want an example of a show that the network seemed to hate, Hill Street Blues in its first season is pretty good.  They moved it from week to week.  One week it was on Tuesday, the next on Saturday, etc.  It was a miracle that they renewed it for the second season.  And that show changed television completely by bringing in story arcs that lasted between episodes.

I think X Files did benefit from the internet, but before that Quantum Leap definitely did.

[Hybridcookie]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Zhaan [touches Aeryn's wrist sympathetically, exhales] - He is Crichton. 

The show fairly pointed out when wormholes were involved, John got a little crazy, then he had a chip in his head where he was terrorized by Scorpius to the point where he essentially killed Aeryn, so being annoying isn't OOC. 

 

Ugh Scorpius, another annoying character with far too much screentime.

It's funny, because I always forget he exists till I'm reminded, I feel like I block him out. I rewatched it for the first time last year and I completely forgot about him till he appeared and it all came flooding back.

[festivus]

Meanwhile, I was thrilled when Scorpius showed up since I could see we were not gonna get the old tired 'he killed my brother' villain shit for four seasons. Crichton and Scorpius were so interesting. John Crichton is one of my favorite fictional characters ever but I'm not sure that's unpopular.

[ouinason]

Somewhat connected.

 

I think that Stargate SG-1 was better in season 9 and 10 with Claudia Black and Ben Browder than it was in the couple of seasons before that (barring a few good episodes).  It was really getting stale.

[festivus]

I like (not love) Stargate but I zone out unless it's episodes with Ben or Claudia in them. Now, I know this opinion has to be unpopular!

[DoctorAtomic]

As much as I love the show, they shouldn't have made Scorpius a regular though. 

[Neurochick]

On 6/19/2020 at 1:21 PM, meep.meep said:

If you want an example of a show that the network seemed to hate, Hill Street Blues in its first season is pretty good.  They moved it from week to week.  One week it was on Tuesday, the next on Saturday, etc.  It was a miracle that they renewed it for the second season.  And that show changed television completely by bringing in story arcs that lasted between episodes.

I think X Files did benefit from the internet, but before that Quantum Leap definitely did.

Space: Above and Beyond was another show that was killed by FOX.  Mainly because the creators of the show were two X Files producers.  In 1996, X Files was FOX's jewel in the crown so they wanted their producers back. (And I know that for a FACT)  Not only did FOX cancel Space: Above and Beyond, they basically hid it away, probably because someone realized that if anybody watched it, they'd question any network's sanity for canceling it. 

Space: Above and Beyond was to me, an early version of Battlestar Galactica. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Neurochick

[Blergh]

As hokey and often simplistic the 1979-80 version of Battlestar Galactica was, I liked it much better than the depressing, broody and boot-deep 2005-2009 version. Why the former version didn't even make it one season while the latter lasted for four years, I will NEVER understand!  I couldn't even make it through one of the latter show's episodes. 

[CoderLady]

I vaguely remember the original and at the time all I needed to be entertained were shows about unambiguously good guys vs. super evil bad guys: I was a kid. As an adult I still unabashedly love shows where the good guys always win though when I can feel enough emotional detachment from what's on the screen, I can also find shows about anger, fear and despair interesting.

Which is why at the moment I agree with you, @Blergh. I haven't been in a mood lately to watch shows where horrible things keep happening. SyFy recently ran a BSG marathon but I couldn't bring myself to watch it this time around even though I'd been glued to the TV for every second of the show when it was first run. I guess personal circumstances count as much as content does.

Edited June 21, 2020 by CoderLady

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

As hokey and often simplistic the 1979-80 version of Battlestar Galactica was, I liked it much better than the depressing, broody and boot-deep 2005-2009 version. Why the former version didn't even make it one season while the latter lasted for four years, I will NEVER understand!  I couldn't even make it through one of the latter show's episodes. 

I understand.  The original Battlestar Galactica was on ABC one of the big three networks, on Sunday night, while the reboot was on SyFy, on cable.  You need a lot more viewers for a network show than you do for a cable show.  Also the original BSG was on at a bad time, I think it was 7pm on Sunday night.  60 Minutes ruled that time slot then.  I remember watching it on an old black and white TV, when I was in college, in 1979.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I understand.  The original Battlestar Galactica was on ABC one of the big three networks, on Sunday night, while the reboot was on SyFy, on cable.  You need a lot more viewers for a network show than you do for a cable show.  Also the original BSG was on at a bad time, I think it was 7pm on Sunday night.  60 Minutes ruled that time slot then.  I remember watching it on an old black and white TV, when I was in college, in 1979.

And coming on as a TV Star Wars I doubt if Lucas himself could have made a successful Battlestar Galactica show reusing the same stock space dogfights week after week.