S32.E04: Signed, Sealed, And Delivered

[SandyToes]

 

Yes that RC sucked, I wonder if the dream team did the challenge at 8am or 5pm which is not that hot, and of course they were not dehydrated

while the contestants did it perhaps at noon which is extremely hot at the tropics plus they were dehydrated and exhausted.

All of this for spices, coffee, wok, etc. and not immunity

 

And yet I wonder, if the team had quit, (and therefore Caleb was also no worse off than Debbie or Cydney), would the discussion be about the team of quitters giving up, and how unworthy they all were of the million dollars?  Sure, he may have been in "win at all costs" mode regardless of the prize, but I wonder if there isn't also concern about someday needing these people to vote to keep you around, and then if you make it until the end, cast jury votes. "He was a great guy, but he gave up on the challenge because he got too hot." I can see that coming back, just as easily as, "What a great guy! He never gave up!"   We saw 44 minutes of what looked like 3 days. I imagine there were lots of directions, comments, discussions we weren't privy to.  Dr.Peter lying under the umbrella - was it time stamped? Could have been while the girls were settled and the helicopter was en route. Why not get out of the heat and try and rest? Not my favorite on the show, but I'm not willing to pile on for him not being shown helping. 

 

I did catch my breath at the shot of the zillion production staff all running around - that was a lot of folks called into action. How frightening. Thanks to all for the discussions about why the three who went down weren't taken to the ocean.  May also explain why no one else took a dip - with that much craziness going on, maybe production wanted everyone camped in their specific spots, so if anyone else crashed, they wouldn't have to be fished out of the water, tracked down the beach, etc. I've volunteered in a couple of crisis situations, and one of the first things we did was try to get people to stay put, so we could keep track of everyone.

 

As for all the others, I still can't tell most of them apart, and keep wondering what Abi is doing back on this show. Every time. Who is that?! (Was it Alecia?)

[violet and green]

There's a lot that goes on out there that we aren't shown.  We've never seen the coolers full of iced water bottles for the crew.  Or the crew, really.  If they did have water/shade breaks, and I think they do when it's warranted, do you think they'd be shown in the final edit?  

 

Dalton Ross has said that the coolers are there for the crew, but that out of respect for the players they don't drink their cool waters during the challenges, and that the players only get to drink from their flasks before and after the challenges, and not during.

[Big Mother]

Well, he could have looked concerned. He could have been turned towards Debbie, for example, showing his concern, regardless of how popped* he was. He could have put a hand on her shoulder and said reasuring things, placed the shade over her in a concerned way, fanned her, or spoken reassuringly to the rest of the team, told them everything was in hand, the medics were there. Any of that sort of thing that someone with a heart, plus medical training, would have done fairly effortlessly, i would have thought.. 

 

*pooped!

 

I hope the Dr Peter debate can be laid to rest already. Just wanna chime in to reply to this one. ER doctors are known to not be very warm, friendly, reassuring types. What you're describing above would be totally out of character for Dr. Peter. he's not that type of person.

[yamashinaryu]

Dalton Ross has said that the coolers are there for the crew, but that out of respect for the players they don't drink their cool waters during the challenges, and that the players only get to drink from their flasks before and after the challenges, and not during.

I think I saw Cydney drink from a bottle of cold mineral water after the RC, while everyone's in panic. I wondered why she was allowed to do that when Debbie was not given any?

[phlebas]

However from my observations he could have, just humanly, shown a little more concern, for anyone. Debbi right next to him was an obvious contender.

 

For all we know he had just turned away from talking to her, asking if she needed anything, or really anything else. She might have told him to leave her alone so she could rest in the shade in peace.

I think I saw Cydney drink from a bottle of cold mineral water after the RC, while everyone's in panic. I wondered why she was allowed to do that when Debbie was not given any?

Anna was holding a water bottle to the back of Tai's neck too.  I think it's fair to assume they all had their fill of water while the medical guys were around.

[violet and green]

For all we know he had just turned away from talking to her, asking if she needed anything, or really anything else. She might have told him to leave her alone so she could rest in the shade in peace.

Anna was holding a water bottle to the back of Tai's neck too.  I think it's fair to assume they all had their fill of water while the medical guys were around.

 

I have just rewatched the footage from the Brain's tribe - and while Neal and Joe Are standing over the two prone women, trying to provide them some shade, and Joe is bending over Debbie saying, Do you want me to call the medic? (no, no) I think I should call the medic, or you'll end up with heatstroke  - the ER doc is lying on his back a foot or so away with his hands behind his head.

 

In the next shot, Joe is holding the umbrella and Neal is crouching down looking worried and Aubrey is also crouching down with a wet towel over her head, her hands making involuntary motions towards Debbie - as Dr Joe and the other medic cool Debbie down.

The ER doc is out of shot.

 

Cydney is not looking too good now. In the next scene relevant to Brains tribe, as Dr Joe reports that Debbie's heart rate and temperature have been brought down, Aubrey is now holding the umbrella and still looking really worried. Caleb has gone down and the medics race over to the gathered Beauty tribe. 

 

In the next shot Neal is holding the umbrella over Debbie. And then there's commotion and all crew are called over by Jeff to assist, and at that point Peter in his sky blue boardshorts ambles over towards Caleb looking slightly interested. 

 

I dunno. I think his lack of involvement in caring for his teammate was composed in some part of spite, for the previous tribal.

 

I am really done with discussing this, but I have found my posts re this event grabbed at for comments I didn't make and felt the need to clarify and then reclarify what I still think are perfectly clear statements. So I thought I would find some backup for what I saw and felt went down.

 

I don't have a large enough pool of ER colleagues to make any sweeping statements about their empathy levels, but all the doctors I do know and respect are very caring individuals who would not hesitate to provide assistance, comfort, or soothing words in any situation involving another human in physical distress.

[Gweilo]

Thanks to all for the discussions about why the three who went down weren't taken to the ocean.  May also explain why no one else took a dip - with that much craziness going on, maybe production wanted everyone camped in their specific spots, so if anyone else crashed, they wouldn't have to be fished out of the water, tracked down the beach, etc.

 

That's a really good point.

[Nashville]

I really think this was a very bad miscalculation by the Production team.  Someone said earlier that they train in the Arizona sun

Actually, that may be their core problem - their training conditions; more specifically, the humidity - or lack thereof.

Two things about AZ - it's a desert climate, which means it's usually very hot (except in winter), and it's usually very dry (humidity in the single digits or low teens). That's not the conditions under which the comps are being played for real, however; the filming location is tropical, which means HIGH humidity.

Parts of the South are actually subtropical, and in summer we also regularly deal with extremely high humidity (and by "extremely high" I mean getting up into the 80th and 90th percentiles without raining). There's a condition some people develop; I don't know what it's proper name is, but around these parts its colloquial name is "vapor-locking". What happens is, in some people the high humidity can nullify to some degree the body's sweat response to overheating. A human body sweats so the sweat can evaporate and cool the skin in the process. Excessively high humidity can retard evaporation, however; the sweat just stays on the skin, the body isn't cooled, and the person becomes more susceptible to heat exhaustion or heatstroke.

This sort of thing would never be observed in the dry AZ climate; I've done summer hiking in the Grand Canyon area before, and I've seen hikers with forearms white from the salt left behind by evaporated sweat. If the condition is common enough in subtropical climates to get its own nickname, however, I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't be even more prevalent in a tropical climate - and, if their testing/training didn't take humidity effects into account, what else might be getting missed as well?

[mertensia]

The whole Tucson football thing is an incredible non-starter as every year some high school kid in Texas or Arizona or wherever dies during or after practice. Frontline did an episode on it. People die here in Tucson from heat exhaustion while out hiking almost every year.

There is no reason they couldn't have done that challenge at dusk or night.

My guess is everything else aside Peter would have been hampered by n o t being in an ER with its staff and equipment.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

As much as I hate entitled egomaniac men, I hate their enablers more. That would be you Cydney.  

[Guest]

As for all the others, I still can't tell most of them apart, and keep wondering what Abi is doing back on this show. Every time. Who is that?! (Was it Alecia?)

There is someone who looks a little like Abi.  Julia, I think.

 

Actually, that may be their core problem - their training conditions; more specifically, the humidity - or lack thereof.

Two things about AZ - it's a desert climate, ...

I don't think that prior post about "they train in AZ" meant the Survivor people.  I think they were talking about their own local sports team or something.  I think the Dream Team (interns) run the challenges in place.  

[peachmangosteen]

And then there's commotion and all crew are called over by Jeff to assist, and at that point Peter in his sky blue boardshorts ambles over towards Caleb looking slightly interested. 

 

This seems to disprove Peter saying they weren't allowed to interact with the other tribes.

 

My take on the Peter thing is just that I would think that as a human being and a doctor his first instinct would be to help. That was the first instinct of Jeremy and Keith last season. I don't expect him to actually do anything and, in fact, I think it's 100% clear that he would not be allowed to actually do anything doctor-y, but I would just think he would have tried to do something even knowing he wasn't allowed just based on instinct. It doesn't appear that he even tried. But the edit could've just not shown it. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that him trying to help was just edited out.

Edited March 13, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[fishcakes]

I used to work in a hospital and it wasn't unusual to see people collapse where you wouldn't necessarily expect it -- the lobby or the cafeteria, for example. Immediately, all health care personnel would go to the person, but once it was clear that the person was being helped, everyone but one or two people backed off and went about their business. Someone having a health crisis is routine to these people, so while their reactions may seem uncaring to those of us who rarely, if ever, have to deal with it, it's not efficient or helpful for all of them to be in frantic control freak mode all the time. I think TV medical shows like ER or Grey's give us a false sense of this because everyone's running around screaming, "I NEED ANOTHER AMP OF EPI!" all the time. If you've ever seen someone getting CPR by a paramedic or being defibrillated in a hospital, it's completely different. Very calm, very controlled, no one yelling; if you were just walking by, you might not even know it was happening. In that respect, the drama on the beach seemed a little artificial to me, but I think that's more a function of editing than anything else. A lot of shots of people running around and quick cuts between scenes of Cydney crying and Caleb having an IV jammed into his arm.  If we saw the entire 45 minutes, I suspect there'd be a lot more standing around.

 

I don't expect him to actually do anything and, in fact, I think it's 100% clear that he would not be allowed to actually do anything doctory-y, but I would just think he would have tried to do something even knowing he wasn't allowed just based on instinct. It doesn't appear that he even tried. But the edit could've just not shown it. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that him trying to help was just edited out.

 

I agree with this. I don't know if he tried to help or not, but once he saw everyone was being taken care of, I'm sure he was like, "yeah, they're good. I'll just sit over here in the shade." And it wouldn't surprise me if he did try to help and it wasn't shown, both because they can't show everything and because knowing that Peter's kind of a dick, they know it might stir up exactly the kind of discussion we're having right now about whether or not he's an uncaring monster. And I do think he's getting criticized a little more harshly than he would be if he were a more likable person. In Samoa, when the other Russell collapsed and appeared to be dead for a few minutes, Mick, who was also a doctor, didn't do anything to help either, but I don't remember him getting an ounce of criticism, probably because he was a generally a nice guy who the audience liked. Also, he was handsome and maybe a little dumb, so we could pretend he was just playing a doctor on TV.

[needschocolate]

I don't understand why there isn't more anger at the show's doctor.  I am no fan of Peter, but I don't see how he could be expected to jump in and treat players when the doctor who works for the show didn't jump in and start treating people.  Peter had been digging in the hot sand on a hot day for 45+ minutes and was likely dehydrated and certainly underfed, while the show's doctor has probably been eating 3 meals a day and has access to all the cool water he wants (even if he abstains during the challange, he is still better hydrated than the players are).  

[himela]

What I don't understand is why do you obsess so much whether Peter did or didn't help? Who cares? The important thing is that a young healthy person had to be evacuated from the game and spent almost 6 days in the hospital and another 5 months to fully recover (according to his words). This should have our attention plus of course the strategy from now on.

[Mrs. P.]

Does anyone know where the episode title, "Signed, Sealed, and Delivered" came from? It doesn't seem to fit the events, unless it's a reference to Alecia's boot. Did one of her tribemates say it?

[piewarmer]

I used to work in a hospital and it wasn't unusual to see people collapse where you wouldn't necessarily expect it -- the lobby or the cafeteria, for example. Immediately, all health care personnel would go to the person, but once it was clear that the person was being helped, everyone but one or two people backed off and went about their business. Someone having a health crisis is routine to these people, so while their reactions may seem uncaring to those of us who rarely, if ever, have to deal with it, it's not efficient or helpful for all of them to be in frantic control freak mode all the time.

 

Last year my dad was in ICU for several days. Even when a patient was having a crisis the responses were measured and methodical. One day, however, pandemonium broke out in one of the rooms - medical staff running down the hallways yelling for help was a far cry from the normal atmosphere.  Apparently what does send ICU staff into frantic mode is a burst plumbing supply line in a patient room.  No judgment here, I did the same thing when it happened in my bathroom at home.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Fishcakes's post reminds me of the time I visited someone in the hospital, and promptly fainted right next to them.  God, I felt so embarrassed.  But yeah, best place to faint in!  I was attended to SO fast and I'm sure seeing people collapse IS routine for those personnel.

[RedheadZombie]

When the doctor first reaches Caleb, you hear a male voice ask Tai to move aside. I think it's the doctor (versus Jeff) because the voice is calm and he says please. This would imply that the medics have a working knowledge of who these people are, and that they are possibly interacting behind the scenes. Bounty also had some sort of bandage on his sunburned shoulders, which indicates he's had medical treatment that wasn't shown. But none of this means they shouldn't review their procedures and make changes. Caleb came close to dying. It's a big deal.

Even if there were pre-existing water and shade breaks, more is needed. Perhaps when everyone arrives to the challenge and before taping begins, they can be provided a sit down shaded area with cold water. As far as I'm concerned, they can be given some juice. Our brains are the first to react to hypoglycemia. Maybe Caleb would have recognized the severity of his condition if his brain had a little sugar. Although I'm with the camp who believes this was an immunity challenge, and they edited it after the fact.

I'm not willing to blame Caleb for what happened.

[Big Mother]

Medical checks out every member before and after the challenges, and they are also seen at camp whenever necessary. Medical obviously also had a lengthy exam with them before the entire season even began, so they knew all of them personally.

[LanceM]

From my understanding medical visits each camp daily to check on the contestants something we obviously never see unless there is a medavac situation.

[violet and green]

What I don't understand is why do you obsess so much whether Peter did or didn't help? Who cares? The important thing is that a young healthy person had to be evacuated from the game and spent almost 6 days in the hospital and another 5 months to fully recover (according to his words). This should have our attention plus of course the strategy from now on.

 

This should have our attention? Ye gods. Did you not read the first five plus pages of the thread?! I think whatever happened in the episode is up for discussion in the episode thread.

[peachmangosteen]

But when Jeremy and Keith offered help, it was post-merge, wasn't it, so they were helping a member of their own tribe?  I think these pre-merge tribes are told to not interact with the other tribe members.  I can see Peter eventually taking a glance closer in, without it being considered interaction.

 

I mean I would still think that a doctor, in particular, would try to help, but this did make me consider that Peter probably had no idea that Caleb and Cydney were even struggling until after all the crew doctors were already tending to them. It still doesn't explain why he didn't seem to care about Debbie, but again that could just be editing.

 

Does anyone know where the episode title, "Signed, Sealed, and Delivered" came from? It doesn't seem to fit the events, unless it's a reference to Alecia's boot. Did one of her tribemates say it?

 

I'm pretty sure the episode titles are always quotes, but I don't remember this either. I feel like Jason or Scot might have said it with regards to booting Alecia though.

Edited March 13, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[needschocolate]

I don't see anyone obsessing.  I also don't see why there should be anger at the show's doctor.  He can't diagnose people who haven't presented him with a complaint.  Before collapsing Caleb was running around and tossing balls like he was fine.  And he is fine now.  It's not like he died out there due to negligence from the show.  

 

I am not angry at The doctor or at Peter.  The point of my post was that I don't understand why it seem so many are angry/annoyed/bothered that Peter didn't run over to help people on the other tribes or do more for Debbie (who kept saying she was fine) when they aren't bothered that the show's doctor didn't run over and help.  

[Fostersmom]

I'm not angry! I just thing he has shown very good indications in the last four eps of being somewhat lacking in the heart department, as many people these days are. This was just one more example - and I made a suggestion that although he may not have been allowed to act as a doctor in that situation, he could still have acted as a human being (or even just faked it). I am sure the poor fellow is not enjoying being criticised by people on social media and what not who were not there, and I agree I was not there! However from my observations he could have, just humanly, shown a little more concern, for anyone. Debbi right next to him was an obvious contender.

 

Didn't it take a good 45 minute more after Debbie went down and immediately got treatment for Caleb and Cyndey to even finish, let alone get treatment, and for the shot of Peter next to Debbie while Caleb was was being worked on? She was well out of the woods by then.

[sadiegirl1999]

I'm pretty sure Bounty said the title quote

[Nashville]

I don't think that prior post about "they train in AZ" meant the Survivor people.  I think they were talking about their own local sports team or something.  I think the Dream Team (interns) run the challenges in place.  

 

AH!  Contextual Confusion once again rears its ugly head!  :D

 

Mistaken as my original take was, though, I think a valid question did arise from it: where does Production initially design/test/try out the Challenges? 

Yes, I know most are recycles from previous seasons - but they all had to be initially designed and created somewhere.  And I think I'm fairly safe in assuming they're not doing the initial concept creation on-site or just-in-time; that would be Production creating its own logistical nightmare for workers, materials, etc.  TPTB would have to completely re-staff their Finance Department every season, because the accountant types would be stroking out left and right.

 

In short (I know, too late), I'm relatively certain:

1. The crew lands on-set on Day One with detailed specs for the entire season's planned suite of Challenges.
2. The vast majority of the Challenge sets are already pre-fabbed and shipped in with them.
3. Besides construction instructions, a significant part of the Challenge documentation includes documentation on how the game should be run through the course design, expected run times for each phase, etc.

 

Having said that, my primary remaining questions would be:

1. Where do they do their initial design construction and run-throughs?
2. Besides materials and logistics, is any medical data gathered of the physical toll exacted on participants in the execution of each Challenge?

 

 

 

Last year my dad was in ICU for several days. Even when a patient was having a crisis the responses were measured and methodical. One day, however, pandemonium broke out in one of the rooms - medical staff running down the hallways yelling for help was a far cry from the normal atmosphere.  Apparently what does send ICU staff into frantic mode is a burst plumbing supply line in a patient room.  No judgment here, I did the same thing when it happened in my bathroom at home.

 

I suspect plumbing mishaps aren't covered in their standing orders.  :)

[laurakaye]

I'm pretty sure Bounty said the title quote

He did say it, in the shelter, to Alecia.  I was truly hoping he would get bounced based on this very same stupid egotistical statement, as sometimes happens on this show.  Alas, not this time.

[ljenkins782]

As for not looking concerned enough about Debbie?  I think that's just begging for something to be angry with him about. He knew the situation was under control and staring at Debbie wasn't going to accomplish anything.  For all we know, he was just scanning around at the other players in case anyone else looked like they might drop.

I think it's fine if you don't like Peter. But this is a pretty weak reason for it.

 

 

I'm not angry! I just thing he has shown very good indications in the last four eps of being somewhat lacking in the heart department, as many people these days are. This was just one more example - and I made a suggestion that although he may not have been allowed to act as a doctor in that situation, he could still have acted as a human being (or even just faked it). I am sure the poor fellow is not enjoying being criticised by people on social media and what not who were not there, and I agree I was not there! However from my observations he could have, just humanly, shown a little more concern, for anyone. Debbi right next to him was an obvious contender.

 

 

Exactly. 

 

I don't know how people commenting on him not participating in the care/comforting of a fallen tribemate is being extrapolated into such an extreme situation as suggesting that Peter knock Dr. Joe and the medical team out of the way to tend to Caleb himself. No one ever said anything close to that. 

 

Much like being on a tribe with an experienced wilderness camper might make a person feel safer sleeping in a jungle, getting reassuring words and basic care (again, NOT the official practice of medicine, simply the same gestures the non MD tribe mates were providing) from a licensed medical professional could make a person feel better in the midst of a (minor) medical emergency. That's all I personally was saying. 

 

From a purely cynical gameplay standpoint regarding Peter, it could signal yet another instance of his low social IQ if he was the lone tribe member not showing any kind of concern. The collapse of teammates seemed to bring the other tribes together, even if for a brief moment, and for someone in the dead last position on his tribe, it would have been an opportunity for Peter to reconnect with his tribe a bit or at least ingratiate himself with Debbie. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by ljenkins782

[Alapaki]

I've waited a bit to respond to dehydrate-gate, but here goes.

 

I've been a critic of the fact that TPTB have been giving the castaways more and more food/supplies earlier and earlier in the game.  I've joked that eventually they're going to just set up every camp with a propane grill w/electric starter on Day One.

 

My complaints notwithstanding, TPTB have obviously decided that there's a certain level of physical privation beyond which the entertainment value of the show suffers.  However, that being the case, I think begs the question of why they don't just go all the way and provide suitable shelter and purified water right from the beginning.  

 

Because, while they've largely done away with the conceit of "castaways fending for themselves", it seems like the number of evacuations, (either actual or de facto by players either outright quitting or "sacrificing" themselves at TC) has only increased.

 

They've had numerous challenges that involved digging up items in order to complete the challenge over the years.  Maybe this was just a perfect storm of the temperatures being higher than expected/usual, the bags being buried a little deeper than usual, the digging-areas being a little bigger than usual, there being less contestants digging than usual, the contestants being less systematic than usual, (possibly on account of) the contestants being more dehydrated than usual.

 

There had to be several Production people on-site saying to themselves "damn, I'm dying out here just standing still, I can't imagine how those contestants feel!"  But apparently none of them said a word. (and I'm sure there are numerous reasons for that).  

 

I've come to the conclusion that the seasons of this show can be entertaining, suspenseful, and challenging enough without the physical privation.  Would that be considered "coddling" the contestants?  I don't know.  If so, I'd still prefer it to having so much of the outcome of so many seasons impacted by evacuations.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Alapaki

[Nashville]

However, that being the case, I think begs the question of why they don't just go all the way and provide suitable shelter and purified water right from the beginning.  

 

Interestingly, this actually touches on a question I've idly wondered about for years - are they actually drinking the local water?

By my count, Survivor has gone through 32 seasons involving the formation of (thus far) 105 Tribes - and every episode we see members of the various Tribes make the hike at least once a day to their Tribe's individual well, which is located conveniently close enough to camp for relatively easy access, but also conveniently far enough away for strategic conversations to pass unheard.

Even subtracting the 31 post-merge Tribes (since they occupy one of the pre-merge Tribe's already-established site), that would still mean Production would have to locate, drill, dredge, and create something in the neighborhood of 74 wells in the course of the series - all of them conveniently within acceptable parameters of nearness/distance, and none of them ever running dry during the course of filming - to accept the premise that they're all subsisting on local water for the course of the series' run.

Generally speaking, serviceable wells just aren't that easy to come by. Even with an intimate knowledge of the local geology, there's a lot of hit-or-miss involved in even striking water - and even if you do get lucky there's no guarantees the water is potable, or the well won't play out within a few days or a week after the initial fill.

My family comes from a rural area, where city water has never been so much as a remote dream, and never will be; the only (relatively) dependable potable water sources are the wells they dig themselves. I've known some farms, when their wells dried up, taking weeks or MONTHS to acquire a replacement well - and sometimes they simply can't. So to say Production has hit the jackpot EVERY SINGLE TIME strains my own credulity to no small degree - especially when they're competing in national park sites, where I suspect the authorities might take a wee bit of exception to TPTB punching drill holes all over their park in search of wells.

My own sneaking suspicion is that - rather than Production going for the Guinness World Record for Water Dowsing - they simply bury a water tank underground, fill it themselves with potable water, pile some pretty rocks around it, and call it a "well". Which, if some players also have knowledge of this or share the same suspicion, might also explain their somewhat derisive reaction when concerns were expressed about the quality of the drinking water.

So - waddaya think? :)

[Special K]

Yeah, I think they're given "potable" local water by production.  However, that doesn't mean that it can't still make them sick.

[blackwing]

I am not angry at The doctor or at Peter.  The point of my post was that I don't understand why it seem so many are angry/annoyed/bothered that Peter didn't run over to help people on the other tribes or do more for Debbie (who kept saying she was fine) when they aren't bothered that the show's doctor didn't run over and help.  

Well, speaking only for myself of course, but I find Peter extremely unlikeable.  In fact I would say he's probably one of the most arrogant and egotistical contestants that have been on the show.  I dislike him intensely.  Does that make me criticise him more than if it was anyone else?  Probably.  Is that fair to him?  Maybe not.  But Peter demonstrated to me over the course of the previous few episodes that he is an extremely arrogant man with an extremely high opinion of himself.  He thought he was in control of the game.  He immediately bonded with the young attractive Liz, a quantitative analyst.  I'm quite certain that he thought of he and Liz as the "power couple" and the engine behind the Brains tribe.  They were the best looking people, the smartest people, the leaders who were running everything.  He says jump and you ask how high, because he is so good looking.  When his plan didn't work out, the schadenfreude, it was delicious.

 

So I found it a bit interesting that this self-professed smart guy, the take charge leader, just sat around and did nothing.  It's the contrast.  There was a huge contrast between the person he thinks he is, and the person that sat around and appeared indifferent.  That's really what fuels the hate for me.  It's the fact that he thought he was in control, found out in a very hard way that he is not, and now he's just mad at the world. and he couldn't care less.

[Special K]

I know this might be hard for people to realize, but not all doctors become doctors because they're extra-compassionate, altruistic people.  A lot of them do it for the scientific/intellectual challenge.  Still others do it for the stature.

 

Peter's demeanor does not in any way strike me as unusual for a doctor away from his practice.  Maybe I'm jaded, but I know a lot of doctors. 

[Alapaki]

I figured they just put a portable well-like structure out there and put like a 3-gallon jug or two of water in it per day, that we aren't shown.  The people fill their canteens from that.  Or the 'well' is entirely faux and they fill their canteens from a tap near their medical box we're also not shown.  Though they do talk of boiling water some seasons like this one so who knows.  They relocated some buildings in Cambodia to film these seasons so there must be some existing water source there.

I agree that the water is most likely supplied by Production.

And maybe I'm being naive, but we've seen players (seemingly) go without water for stretches because they didn't have fire to boil it with. I just assume they've been instructed by TPTB pre-filming that they have to boil it or risk serious illness. I know if I got that type of instruction I'd heed it rather than disregard it like Deb.

Can all that concern about boiling really all just be Kabuki for the cameras?

[Nashville]

I know this might be hard for people to realize, but not all doctors become doctors because they're extra-compassionate, altruistic people.  A lot of them do it for the scientific/intellectual challenge.  Still others do it for the stature.

Don't forget the money!!! - initially, at least. :>

Peter's demeanor does not in any way strike me as unusual for a doctor away from his practice.  Maybe I'm jaded, but I know a lot of doctors.

 

Same here. I'm no clinician, but I've been working around hospitals and clinics and providers for about 30 years now. Albert Schweitzer, he don't show up so much. ;)

 

Can all that concern about boiling really all just be Kabuki for the cameras?

If TPTB are short on other filler? Sure, why not? :)

[gunderda]

I didn't like Caleb on BB but I was super bummed he got evacuated on Survivor!!!

He looked a lot smaller now than he did on BB, I always thought it wasn't very smart of him to do that before coming on Survivor. Or if he was the same then he should have bulked up a bit.

[cherrypj]

So - waddaya think? :)

 

Yes. It's potable and filled by production. There was an AMA a few years back that touched on this question.

[Nashville]

Yes. It's potable and filled by production. There was an AMA a few years back that touched on this question.

Ahhh".. ze vindication, she feels warm on my face like ze sun. :D

[piequinn35]

I read somewhere that the well is built by the crew and they also provide water jugs every few days

[Nashville]

Yes. It's potable and filled by production. There was an AMA a few years back that touched on this question.

  

I read somewhere that the well is built by the crew and they also provide water jugs every few days

I figured it had to be something like that - if for no other reason than watching over a dozen people simultaneously suffering from dysentery isn't likely to make for riveting television.

Well... it might. To some.

But last I checked, CBS didn't program THAT heavily for the freaks.

They leave that to Fox. ;>

[Big Mother]

I didn't like Caleb on BB but I was super bummed he got evacuated on Survivor!!!

He looked a lot smaller now than he did on BB, I always thought it wasn't very smart of him to do that before coming on Survivor. Or if he was the same then he should have bulked up a bit.

He mentioned on one of his exit interviews that he was told 3 weeks before flying out, that he would be on survivor. He had just lost a lot of weight for a bodybuilding thing and had only 8% body fat. He had very little time to try to bulk up. I was impressed by how beautiful and thin he looked. Unfortunately that was his kryptonite. (I'm just finishing tonight's episode of SUpergirl, so sorry about that lol). tThe drs at the Cambodia hospital told him he was lucky he had that much muscle, bc his body wouldve shut down completely if it didnt at least have some fluid stores in his mucles. If you see recent pics of him, he has bulked right back up and is ready to go out to play again. 

 

Had he not passed out on that challenge, it's likely that he wouldve had to be pulled from the game at a future point, since he'd only be losing more weight and have very little food and water stores to draw from.

[Special K]

He mentioned on one of his exit interviews that he was told 3 weeks before flying out, that he would be on survivor. He had just lost a lot of weight for a bodybuilding thing and had only 8% body fat.

 

8% is not dangerously low for a man.  Essential body fat for a man, the amount necessary for bodily functions, is 2-5%.  For a woman, it's more like 10-15%.  Many (male) marathoners perform at their peak at 3-4% body fat.    But I guess if he was at 8% when he entered the competition, he was likely lower at the time of his evac.  The body will also burn muscle fiber when necessary.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Special K

[henripootel]

This is very knollish of me but I also kind of wonder if the whole thing wasn't cooked up for an excuse to send Caleb home due to his best friend dying and then getting invited back, and being good drama for the show.

This crossed my mind as well, but it so, it was the most elaborate ruse in Survivor history, and one which cast production in an unflattering light.  I personally think that the reason Peter did nothing was because he was told not to, that medical was here and it was their job.  I think the reason medical only came in once things were in full crisis was because they were told not to, because the priorities of Survivor the Show start and end with 'getting the shot'.  I don't mean to say the producers are monsters who'd kill someone to get ratings but risk people if it interferes with show priorities?  Apparently so.  Can't believe that the producers would cook up an ugly incident like this one even if they had a secondary intention of showing how 'rough' Survivor the Game really is.  

 

Now, there are privations to be sure but as Alapaki points out above, even these are carefully attenuated by production to suit production's goals.  My conclusion: this was a production fuck-up from A to Z, and what we actually saw was shaded to draw attention away from this fact.  I almost wish the whole thing was a ruse, as watching people actually almost-die isn't entertainment.  Either way, I'm left feeling soiled.

Same here. I'm no clinician, but I've been working around hospitals and clinics and providers for about 30 years now. Albert Schweitzer, he don't show up so much. ;)

I know a couple of folks who were told to seriously consider another profession because they did think of themselves as Albert Schweitzer.  Compassion is fine but medicine is a job, and a serious one.  Most of the guys I know who went into it for the 'right' reasons were pretty unhappy with the life, even more-so than those who just want to make great money.  

[Alapaki]

Having said that, my primary remaining questions would be:

Where do they do their initial design construction and run-throughs?

Besides materials and logistics, is any medical data gathered of the physical toll exacted on participants in the execution of each Challenge?

 

 

I suspect that the test runs of the challenges are primarily done for feasibility purposes (i.e. is it even possible to balance/stack/hit etc.), rather than safety.  

 

I think most safety issues are a product of the intensity at which the players perform.  And even Burnett & Co. should realize that people who are allowed to test-run the challenges for fun (or even for a guaranteed paycheck) are not going to approach the intensity of contestants playing for a shot at $1 Million.  Especially given the character-pathologies that the show tends to cast.

 

Given that most of the elements of this challenge had been done on previous seasons, I wonder how much of a test-run this challenge actually got.

I think the reason medical only came in once things were in full crisis was because they were told not to, because the priorities of Survivor the Show start and end with 'getting the shot'.  I don't mean to say the producers are monsters who'd kill someone to get ratings but risk people if it interferes with show priorities?  Apparently so.

 

 

I don't even think medical/production has to be told not interfere.  I think given Burnett's previously very publicly expressed philosophy about such things, there is a chilling effect on-set sufficient to deter anyone from getting close to camera frame.

 

If I heard him correctly, at one point Probst hollered out "everyone here is now essential personnel", and that's when everyone started running in with the chunks of ice and what-not.

[innocuouspuff]

I know this might be hard for people to realize, but not all doctors become doctors because they're extra-compassionate, altruistic people. A lot of them do it for the scientific/intellectual challenge. Still others do it for the stature.

Or to make their parents happy!

Stephen Fishbach was talking about the water thing and I guess boiling is still recognised as preferable but since production has reduced the risk they'll often choose not to bother. He also said they got a lot of hydration reminders during Second Chance so I guess production did learn something.

Caleb is a legendary tall tale teller from the Big Brother feeds. Legendary. I wouldn't take his reportage *too* literally tbh.

[Big Mother]

8% is not dangerously low for a man.  Essential body fat for a man, the amount necessary for bodily functions, is 2-5%.  For a woman, it's more like 10-15%.  Many (male) marathoners perform at their peak at 3-4% body fat.    But I guess if he was at 8% when he entered the competition, he was likely lower at the time of his evac.  The body will also burn muscle fiber when necessary.

 

Not dangerously low, but dangerously low when it's after 9 days of living on almost no food and water. I was *very* surprised by how thin Caleb was on the show. Check out what he looks like now. That's what he looked like on big Brother. he was a lot thinner than normal on Survivor.

This crossed my mind as well, but it so, it was the most elaborate ruse in Survivor history, and one which cast production in an unflattering light.  

 

caleb didnt evne know about his BFF dying until he was already in the hospital and speaking to his mother. I doubt production knew about it or made the split-second decision to evacuate him so he could fly back home to his family.

 

I don't even think medical/production has to be told not interfere.  I think given Burnett's previously very publicly expressed philosophy about such things, there is a chilling effect on-set sufficient to deter anyone from getting close to camera frame.

 

If I heard him correctly, at one point Probst hollered out "everyone here is now essential personnel", and that's when everyone started running in with the chunks of ice and what-not.

 

I imagine that at first they thought they could bring Caleb around with some ice and oxygen, but once they saw he was not getting better they called in the entire crew. There's no point for everyone to swarm a person who is down, for no reason.

 

I don't think Caleb almost died out there, though.  I think people say all kinds of exaggerated things to make people feel good about themselves, like "if it weren't for your ginormous muscles you would've died".  I think there's more water stored in fat cells than muscle.  Muscle is more metabolically active and was costing him calories when the challenge was depleting him.  So I find it all hard to swallow, what the doctor said or what Caleb thought he said.  Caleb also thought he was playing for immunity.  

 

 

If he wouldnt have been removed from those conditions, the after effects could have had devastating consquences. He didnt 'almost-die' right then and there, but if they'd have not airlifted him to a hospital, he probably could have.

 

I have an uncle who had heatstroke as a child. He played outdoors in hot summer New York weather for hours and no one bothered to give him water to drink  - he was probably too young to realize how dehydrated he was - and he's been in a vegetative state for decades :(.  Heat exhaustion is not something to take lightly :(

[Alapaki]

8% is not dangerously low for a man.  Essential body fat for a man, the amount necessary for bodily functions, is 2-5%.

 

 

I think it's one thing for someone to be functionally at 8% in general.  But quite another thing for someone to lean-down to 8% for a body-building competition.  That sort of contest-prep usually involves borderline dangerous diuretic techniques.  It's really not smart to go from that to a situation like they filmed this season in.

[henripootel]

Henri, I also don't think it was fabricated, though it did cross my mind for that brief moment.

Mine only very briefly.  I mean jeez, what a mess.  My guess is that it happened much as we saw it, albeit with a lot of editing.  My point is that it should never have come to this.  What is this, season 32?  They're not new at this.  Does sound like they learned, well, a lesson - let's hope it's the right one.

I don't even think medical/production has to be told not interfere.  I think given Burnett's previously very publicly expressed philosophy about such things, there is a chilling effect on-set sufficient to deter anyone from getting close to camera frame.

Not much to choose from there, really.  I'm betting you're closer to the truth if only because production can (somewhat correctly) claim that they never said medical shouldn't interfere if they think something is wrong.  Don't have to, just fire anyone whose zeal for safety costs them one iota of filming time.  The mere fact that medical has to be summoned by Probst, a producer with no medical training we know of, speaks volumes about where the priorities lie.

Edited March 15, 2016 by henripootel

[Special K]

I think it's one thing for someone to be functionally at 8% in general.  But quite another thing for someone to lean-down to 8% for a body-building competition.  That sort of contest-prep usually involves borderline dangerous diuretic techniques.  It's really not smart to go from that to a situation like they filmed this season in.

 

I think what you're talking about is not body-fat percentage, but body-water percentage or degree of chronic dehydration, and I agree with you there.