S04.E07: Chapter 46

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Frank and Claire adjust to their new reality. The search for Frank's running mate begins. Frank starts a campaign to weaken Conway's strong support.

[numbnut]

Glad they finally came back to Janine. Too bad she's now a basketcase. Not a fan of Kinnaman. He may be out of his depth with HOC's level of acting. His chosen accent is weird, like he's from Anywhere, USA. He also throws in some urban swagger during his webcast. (His voice is also identical to Eric Roberts'.) Where was the character raised?

Edited March 5, 2016 by numbnut

[Dancingjaneway]

I do NOT like Conway and I am so upset that Dunbar had to drop out. I liked her a lot and I was hoping she would kick Franks ass. I really need someone to take both Frank and Clair down. 

[Chaos Theory]

I have been impressed with the season so far.  I do think there was a little too much of Frank’s dreams but I do understand why they did it.  This is Frank’s headspace and watching the two people he physically murdered have a threeway with him was intense.

 

I think my favorite part of the episode was Frank and Claire going over their speeches and what they would say during meeting with each other.  This was glimpses of their season 1 & 2 relationship.  It is nice to see that these crazy kids have worked things out.

 

The one thing I found a letdown was how easily Heather Dunbar was dispensed with.  I thought last season she would be the anti-Frank and the show would go with that for awhile but she was dispensed with easily and whole Frank was unconscious.  I do like how her aid told her she could get out of it if she played the game and lied but she wouldn’t and told the truth which is why she had to drop out of the race.  It cynical as hell but it makes sense. 

 

Plus the show wanted to focus on the actual campaign .  I think Conway will make an interesting enemy.  Not sure how I feel about him yet. But I do find it interesting how they show is incorporating the internet into the show.  The internet. spying, terrorism, and guns.  Ahhh America.  

Edited March 5, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[knaankos]

Anyone feeling like this show is hitting a little TOO close to home? ICO (Isis), the Russia stuff, gun control, the mild black lives matter stuff in the previous episodes, a new supreme justice, election and more. I don't know. I kinda wan't to be reminded this is a show again lol.

 

 

I actually like Conway so far. Although knowing this show there will be something that comes up that reveals him as something sinister. But as of right now I am pulling for him over the Underwoods. 

[mjc570]

Is there anybody the Underwoods can't buy off?  I have to say, I would totally vote for Conway, Joel K. is a long drink of heaven (or however he described himself on the Killing). 

 

I don't see the value of the ex-general as Conway's running mate.  Sure, he can hit Frank on his lack of military service, and his weakness against ISO, but all Frank really has to do is order a few bombing runs or come up with a carefully timed foreign policy (whichl will also benefit Cathy, although I assume she is a placeholder for Claire as the VP) as a "November surprise."

 

I'm really tired of the Underwoods constant, successful manipulations. I thought there was some dramatic possibility in Doug imploding, but I guess now that Frank is back to his old self, that just isn't going to happen. 

[SevenStars]

Conway is making me root for the Underwoods and I hate that. I want the Underwoods to lose but not to Conway. I hope something happens that brings Heather back to the scene.

[ethalfrida]

Doug was especially creepy looking in this episode. 

[Pike Ludwell]

So, Stephen Holder of The Killing has a new career. LOL My problem with that Swedish actor is the accents he chooses just don't quite cut it. The voice of Stephen Holder was annoying as Hell and way over the top. Now, his voice here just doesn't quite cut it either. Just sounds weird too often, like too much Swedish accent accidentally showing through.

 

I'm liking this season so far ... definitely better than last season. Very intelligent script, overall, but not so ridiculously overcomplicated like last season where I almost felt the need to be keeping a flow chart just to keep track of what's going on.

[Bobcatkitten]

Anyone besides me have trouble buying the Conway actor as a governor? Looks really young. It takes me out of the storyline.

Edited March 7, 2016 by scribe95

[elzin]

He's young, but not outrageously so. He should be 39, 40 at the time of the election season if he was 36 in 2012-3.  Older than Meecham. Meechum?  Anyway, young enough for the cool dude vibe. And he looks young for his age.

 

My problem isn't his age but his awful voice. He's not believable in this role. I gave up on The Killing and don't remember him. Oh... Now I think I do. Yeah, nope, he's not right for this role.

 

I am tired of the Ripped From The Headlines stories.

[Bobcatkitten]

Yeah in addition to him seeming young to be a governor and running for president, I can't stop seeing him as the Killing detective. Just bad casting in my opinion.

[Cthulhudrew]

Anyone besides me have trouble buying the Conway actor as a governor? Looks really young. It takes me out of the storyline.

 

It's not so much the age for me, but he just doesn't have the charisma for a politician, at least not the sort of politician that would be the sole remaining candidate to stand against the likes of Francis. Don't get me wrong- there are plenty of dullards that are in elected office, and have run for President in the real world, so it's not beyond the scope of reality- but I just think that for the sake of this show and the storyline, you need someone who can at least compete with Kevin Spacey, and Kinnaman just isn't up to that task. He's just not right for this role, this story, and (at least based on this one episode that I've seen so far) he isn't going to be.

 

Also, is it just me, or has this season suddenly taken a weird turn? I was very much enjoying the first six episodes, and then with Francis' recovery, now the tone has abruptly shifted. Some of the stories seem to have had swift resolutions (Lucas- admittedly the other reporters are still slowly coming around; Dunbar; Francis and Claire at each other's throats), and now they're focusing on a brand new, only briefly mentioned till now character and the general election. Just seems very jarring to me, but they've done well so far, so hopefully it won't seem quite as much of an about face with the rest of the season.

[Ellaria]

It's not so much the age for me, but he just doesn't have the charisma for a politician, at least not the sort of politician that would be the sole remaining candidate to stand against the likes of Francis. Don't get me wrong- there are plenty of dullards that are in elected office, and have run for President in the real world, so it's not beyond the scope of reality- but I just think that for the sake of this show and the storyline, you need someone who can at least compete with Kevin Spacey, and Kinnaman just isn't up to that task. He's just not right for this role, this story, and (at least based on this one episode that I've seen so far) he isn't going to be.

 

I like Joel Kinnaman but something is off with his performance. Part of the problem could be his dialogue. His speech at the harbor was uninspiring and poorly delivered. His interactions with his minions and his family seem to be the product of another show...not this one where everyone is conspiring and tactical. I wish that we knew more about him before he was thrust upon us. Perhaps we should have seen/heard from him in some of the previous six episodes and not just the brief appearance early on.

 

With the current state of US politics, I am reluctant to criticize a fictional politician but Will Conway is incredibly one-dimensional. If he is going to challenge Frank Underwood, we need to see more than an alliance with a search engine. 

 

On another note, I have no idea why Neve Campbell was added to the cast but I hope that her character is dispatched soon. She adds nothing to the show.

 

Also, I wish that we had been shown the meeting between Lucas and Janine rather than hearing her tell it. It would have brought more narrative weight to both characters.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[Cthulhudrew]

On another note, I have no idea why Neve Campbell was added to the cast but I hope that her character is dispatched soon. She adds nothing to the show.

 

I have to agree. It seemed like an interesting idea when she was a co-conspirator to Claire's campaign (although I was leery of the possibility she might become a romantic interest for Stamper), but now she doesn't really add anything. The arguments between her and Stamper are just a rehash of what we had between Stamper and Seth last season, aren't they?

 

And this whole search engine thing is kind of a boring sub-plot. It might have some real world connotations, but the presentation here just feels really stiff and awkward, exposition-wise.

[Maysie]

 

Also, is it just me, or has this season suddenly taken a weird turn? I was very much enjoying the first six episodes, and then with Francis' recovery, now the tone has abruptly shifted. Some of the stories seem to have had swift resolutions (Lucas- admittedly the other reporters are still slowly coming around; Dunbar; Francis and Claire at each other's throats), and now they're focusing on a brand new, only briefly mentioned till now character and the general election. Just seems very jarring to me, but they've done well so far, so hopefully it won't seem quite as much of an about face with the rest of the season.

 

I was thinking the same thing after this episode, though I haven't been so keen on the storytelling throughout the season. I feel like it's been very uneven and unrealistic at points. For example, one moment Claire's inept at foreign policy, politics, strategy, etc., and now she's brokered a deal with the Russians, seemingly out of the blue. (There was nothing in that meeting that led me to believe Petrov was even considering entertaining the offer. And Claire only has to say the word "dignity" and he's convinced?) I'm not entirely sure why Dunbar had to go or why Frank and Claire couldn't be adversaries for the entire season, but in one episode the show took a hard turn off the storyline it'd been following for six episodes. I kind of wonder if they felt they had to tie up the election by the end of the season since we're actually in an election year, so they dispatched with all the primary stuff to go straight for the general election.

 

I have to say, between last season and this one (at least to this point), I learned that if Claire wants something she'll damn well get it. Frank will kill to get what he wants, but he also has a pragmatic streak in him. Claire seems to become so focused on what she wants that she can lose touch with reality. I think she's one of those people who simply thinks that because she wants something, it will be as she wants it.

 

As for the Conways, I can't say I like them, however if they were super-awesome, squeaky clean it would be too easy to root for them and they'd be boring. I suppose they're positioned as Underwood2.0 - their generation of Frank and Claire.

 

 

I don't see the value of the ex-general as Conway's running mate.  Sure, he can hit Frank on his lack of military service, and his weakness against ISO, but all Frank really has to do is order a few bombing runs or come up with a carefully timed foreign policy (whichl will also benefit Cathy, although I assume she is a placeholder for Claire as the VP) as a "November surprise."

 

Is military service that much of an issue any more? Seriously, it seems the last time anyone made any kind of a deal over it was in 2000 (and then it wasn't even a big deal like it used to be). And hell, now presidential candidates can mock a former POW and it doesn't seem to affect how voters react. I think having the military service is a plus for candidates, but I don't think people see the lack of it as such a negative any more, so that felt a bit dated to me. Plus, Conway was in the military, I think. (And he sounded like he did it for the political benefit it would provide).

[knaankos]

You guys are right about the tone change. I feel like I'm watching season 1 again as Frank and Claire do battle side by side.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

ITA that Conway just seems too...lightweight. The speech was a half-hearted recitation of standard GOP talking points. Not everyone can be Donald Trump (or Kevin Spacey, for that matter), but if you want us to buy Conway as this great campaigner, then you need to SHOW him doing that. What we saw was everyone oohing and aahing over a very pedestrian speech.

[Primetimer]

And other not-quite-burning questions sparked by S04.E07.

Read the story

[MaggieG]

I agree, so far Conway seems out of place and too weak to take on Frank. He looks weird in a suit, like he's uncomfortable. Joel Kinnaman however can pull me up on the bathroom counter anytime ;)

Edited March 8, 2016 by MaggieG

[vibeology]

Speeches are hard. Most people can't write an amazing speech, even TV writers. And then delivering a speech is a skill too and one not every actor is practiced in. It would have been smarter to show Conway interacting with voters one on one or in smaller settings to show his appeal.

[elzin]

Speeches are hard. Most people can't write an amazing speech, even TV writers. And then delivering a speech is a skill too and one not every actor is practiced in. It would have been smarter to show Conway interacting with voters one on one or in smaller settings to show his appeal.

Sorkin has his flaws, but his West Wing speeches were fantastic and believable. And they rarely showed long portions, just bits here and there to make you love Bartlet and Toby and Will even more.

[molshoop]

 

ITA that Conway just seems too...lightweight. The speech was a half-hearted recitation of standard GOP talking points

 

          He's supposed to be a sane, moderate Republican, and to me he sounds like one.  But then I've lived long enough

          to know that great speakers don't always win and some pretty dull ones do; Ike and W. come to mind.

[DarkRaichu]

Agreed that Conway was too lightweight as FU's opponent.  I am dreading FU vs former president 2.0

 

 

Speeches are hard. Most people can't write an amazing speech, even TV writers. And then delivering a speech is a skill too and one not every actor is practiced in. It would have been smarter to show Conway interacting with voters one on one or in smaller settings to show his appeal.

Maybe the writers were just unwilling to show a smart Republican in any capacity :D   Or smart opponent for FU period.  They knew FU could not win against smart and strategically inclined opponents.

[vibeology]

Sorkin has his flaws, but his West Wing speeches were fantastic and believable. And they rarely showed long portions, just bits here and there to make you love Bartlet and Toby and Will even more.

 

Sorkin had probably the best ear for it of any TV writer I've ever seen. And still, he cribbed hard from other writers to pull that off.

 

Maybe the writers were just unwilling to show a smart Republican in any capacity :D   Or smart opponent for FU period.  They knew FU could not win against smart and strategically inclined opponents.

 

I don't even think it's that. I've never been impressed with the speeches on this show. There are good lines here and there, but nothing that's blow the doors off the building good even when the show wants us to believe they are that good. Its a skill and frankly most real life politicians are lucky if they give one great speech. To try to write several in a season is opening yourself up to disappointed viewers. I don't think the show intentionally wrote a bad speech for Conway, I just think getting it perfect is really, really hard and it would have been better to avoid trying all together.

Conway meeting firefighters or blue collar workers or 9/11 heroes or something in a smaller setting while the press covers the event would have allowed him to show his savvy and people skills while not raising expectations too high.

[CouchTater]

I just finished episode 6 last night, and I'm reading this episode 7 thread to spoil myself (I like know what's going to happen on certain shows).  I didn't know Joel Kinnaman was going to have a role on this show.  I didn't like him on The Killing (that show lost me after awhile), and I'm not looking forward to him on House of Cards.

 

I have been bored most of this season and his casting may have just killed the season for me.  Ugh.  He kind of looks like a ferret.

Edited March 11, 2016 by CouchTater

[PRgal]

I think they purposely cast someone young/wrote in a young opponent to show that a young candidate is "just not ready" (wait, that kind of backfired this side of the border - and now we have a Gen X Prime Minister that most people love) - but that doesn't work in the HoC universe. 

[PrincessSteel]

Frank's direct-address asides to the audience, originally a sneaky delight, have devolved into misshapen lumps of exposition with a sprinkling of rancid metaphor. Stop it with the super-explainy asides, show. You aren't Burn Notice.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

 

my favorite part of the episode was Frank and Claire going over their speeches and what they would say during meeting with each other.  This was glimpses of their season 1 & 2 relationship.  It is nice to see that these crazy kids have worked things out.

At first it seemed weird to me that they settled back into that so quickly, but they are both pragmatic if nothing else. They know that they will do better if they are united, not just because of the image of a couple, but as that scene showed, they know how to help each other hone their arguments and wound their opponents. On top of that, in long term relationships (not just husband/wife either, but also relatives and longtime friends) you can easily fall back into old patterns and put aside your discontent if you have a goal, a common enemy, etc. In this case, I think that Frank almost dying made them both realize that as angry as they were with each other just before he was shot, they don't necessarily want to be without the other person (although I got that feeling a lot more from Frank than from Claire).

[ToxicUnicorn]

as angry as they were with each other just before he was shot, they don't necessarily want to be without the other person (although I got that feeling a lot more from Frank than from Claire).

 

I'm not done with the season yet, so this might change, but I definitely got that feeling about Frank.  He clearly loves Claire, although I think it's mostly a match of intellectual (and ambitious) equals for him.  I never get the sense that he desires her.

 

Claire is a closed book to me.  I don't understand her at all.  I'm not sure she loves Frank.  As you said, her decision to go back to Frank seemed based mostly in familiarity and pragmatism.

[TV Glotzer]

That amateurish process shot of the Brooklyn Bridge was all sorts of wrong and the accompanying crowd scenes and background vistas were so obviously not NYC. I hate when productions try to fake NYC. It's nearly impossible.

Furthermore, Frank must have had the most miraculous recovery from liver transplantation surgery in the history of medicine. He's running around like nothing happened AND he's drinking alcohol. Guess he doesn't need a lifetime of anti-rejection drugs either.

I know the audacious absurdity of this show is its raison d'être but I think they could strive for verisimilitude in at least the small points.

Not gonna even mention the ridiculous name Pollyhop. Well, I guess I just did. How do they say that without laughing?

Edited March 20, 2016 by TV Glotzer

[jsm1125]

Also, I wish that we had been shown the meeting between Lucas and Janine rather than hearing her tell it. It would have brought more narrative weight to both characters.

I could have sworn they showed us that meeting in season 2, hence why Agent Greene came to Janine's mother's house to coerce her into signing that affidavit?

 

They really are bringing everyone back from past seasons, aren't they? We can add Janine and former President Walker to the list.

 

I half-expect to see Linda Vasquez (she did get a mention in this episode, after all) and Yates sometime soon.

 

It seems like they're not doing much of anything with Remy and Jackie this season. I hope that changes.

[Tonypitt]

Furthermore, Frank must have had the most miraculous recovery from liver transplantation surgery in the history of medicine. He's running around like nothing happened AND he's drinking alcohol. Guess he doesn't need a lifetime of anti-rejection drugs either.

I have a friend who had a liver transplant. His donor was a sibling, so the genetic match was good. His recovery was excellent, but so unlike this show that it took me out of the story. Frank would still have weeks of initial recovery ahead and then the first whole year thereafter would have challenging elements. No way he could campaign at all. He'd still have tubes and other not fun things to deal with at this point.

[Dobian]

I think this show is really reaching with this premise of being able to manipulate and brainwash voters with search engines, but whatever.  Frank calling off a strike on fake ISIS so he can have an excuse to use the NSA to find out all kinds of great stuff on millions of voters just doesn't make any sense, and is actually rather disturbing considering recent real world developments regarding that lack of action in Syria and today's latest terrorist attacks in Belgium.  I don't know where the show is going with this, but it's the sort of thing that should backfire on Frank instead of reaping him the rewards that I'm expecting.  I was also a little confused by the negotiation to take on a pro-gun running mate in exchange for an anti-gun Supreme Court nominee.  A Supreme Court justice outweighs a veep exponentially when it comes to the gun debate.  Now the Underwoods are going to destroy the Conways.  What are they going to do, secretly post pics of him at a KKK rally or at his mistress' apartment or inside a porn shop on his phone that is now accessible to everyone?  That would just be lame.  The problem I'm starting to have with this show is that it telegraphs things to much.  Every time there's a threat to the Underwoods, whether it's Zoey, Jackie, Lucas, Tusk, Dunbar, whoever...here comes Doug skulking out of the shadows, and down they go, while Frank and Claire remain untouchable.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I actually like Conway so far. Although knowing this show there will be something that comes up that reveals him as something sinister. But as of right now I am pulling for him over the Underwoods. 

 

He's already SO cynical.  He said 9/11 was a great opportunity for him and he filmed playing with his kids as a way to ingratiate himself with voters.  It's already pretty sinister to me.

 

Anyways, that episode was pretty boring.  I was kind of enjoying the show episodes 1-7 and now I'm not sure what to think.  I think Joel Kinnaman is great and it's funny to see all the negative reactions to him here.  You should see how the fans of The Killing speak.  The woman who played his wife looked so much like that actor from The Blacklist.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[TV Anonymous]

This is not just for this episode, but the season so far. One of the things that drove me away from Madam Secretary was the depiction of an all-powerful White House Chief of Staff. Turns out that this show is even worse than Madam Secretary in that regard.

Here, Stamper acts as if he has almost the same power as POTUS. Hiring and firing cabinet members, directing FBI investigation, even commenting on military operations.

The reality is, the WH CoS is responsible for the White House staff, not cabinet members. Cabinet members are Senate-confirmed while CoS is neither confirmed nor elected. What Stamper does is akin to a secretary of a CEO firing and hiring department heads.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

This is not just for this episode, but the season so far. One of the things that drove me away from Madam Secretary was the depiction of an all-powerful White House Chief of Staff. Turns out that this show is even worse than Madam Secretary in that regard.

Here, Stamper acts as if he has almost the same power as POTUS. Hiring and firing cabinet members, directing FBI investigation, even commenting on military operations.

The reality is, the WH CoS is responsible for the White House staff, not cabinet members. Cabinet members are Senate-confirmed while CoS is neither confirmed nor elected. What Stamper does is akin to a secretary of a CEO firing and hiring department heads.

When George H.W. Bush (the older one) was President, his first Chief of Staff was John Sununu, who acted a little like Stamper does here: he supposedly tried to wield Prime Minister-like power in the White House and even argued that he was entitled to his own jet because the Secretary of State had one.

[Mattipoo]

I may be in the minority on this board, but I really like Joel Kinnaman in the Conway role. I think it is fun that he actually reminds me of Holder from The Killing, like the character grew up and became a Presidential candidate. I do agree though that the tone change from the previous episode is too abrupt, and I really, really hate Doug Stamper and wish he will disappear from my screen so I don't have to see his sulky melodramatic ass anymore. I hope Janine and Tom take down the Underwoods by doing some media expose of their misdeeds at the end of this season! Poor Dunbar, I hope this is not the last we see of her.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Mattipoo

[Anela]

I didn't like the way Conway and his wife used his kids - not at all - but what did I miss? How are Claire and Frank going to destroy them? 

 

I brightened up when I saw Janine and Tom. I like them.

[EarlGreyTea]

I can't put my finger on why I found Conway and the wife so disingenuous. It might be the acting. Not everyone can be Spacey and Wright. He and the wife seemed both realistic and fake at the same time. This could have been a chance to hire a big name actor to take on Spacey. I'm wondering if Mendoza's actor departing left a huge plot hole that needed to be quickly resolved. That would have been much more compelling. Conway just  seems like such a lightweight. Marco Rubio, anyone?

 

That said, Joel K. was insanely natural with those actors playing his kids. It was a nice touch having Hannah film everything on her phone. It's really such a millennial thing to do and it shows the generation gap. Why is Hannah randomly British? It was a interesting juxtaposition having Conway happily play with his wife and son while Claire and Frank walked around in stony silence.

[GreekGeek]

On 3/6/2016 at 2:16 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

Also, is it just me, or has this season suddenly taken a weird turn? I was very much enjoying the first six episodes, and then with Francis' recovery, now the tone has abruptly shifted. Some of the stories seem to have had swift resolutions (Lucas- admittedly the other reporters are still slowly coming around; Dunbar; Francis and Claire at each other's throats), and now they're focusing on a brand new, only briefly mentioned till now character and the general election. Just seems very jarring to me, but they've done well so far, so hopefully it won't seem quite as much of an about face with the rest of the season.

I was really enjoying the first half of the season--Frank and Claire no longer a team, Claire's mother, the assassination attempt and the doubts about Frank's survival. It would have been a really bold twist for him to die and be a ghost for the rest of the season, commenting from limbo, but I guess that would have gotten old fast. I even found the dream sequences interesting, especially the ones with Zoe and Peter. I didn't get who they were at first, and it was smart not to include them in the opening credits. Now we're back to the same old political dirty tricks, and it's all but certain Frank and Claire will prevail, because there has to be a Season Five.

[marcee]

I think Conway's claim to fame is his tech-savvy social media angle. He's all over twitter and instagram, he's partnered with a huge search engine, his wife is constantly posting photos and videos. He's got tons of all this free publicity and with the added bonus of "letting them into his living room" - they're like reality TV for political figures. Everyone (except me) loves reality TV these days. So excellent speech or not, he's like a Real Housewife to the bulk of America.

Edited June 1, 2016 by marcee
because I forgot the word "the"

[Hanahope]

Months later, this show is still topical, with the terrorist group, gun control, and 2 candidates for President that pitch a really bad for America over the top schemer, with a kindof fakey scripted schemer who appears to do all the right things, but something  still not quite right there (though still likely the better for America president).

I agree that Frank and Claire are "best" when they are working together.  They are great at manipulation.  I was pretty sure Frank really didn't want Blythe as his VP, and knew he'd turn it down, and then he acts like that's still his pick to the Dem committee.

[LeGrandElephant]

I was confused about the thing with making all his phone video accessible to the public. Besides it being kinda creepy and exploitative of his kids, it was also confusing on a practical level. They showed a video of him at a previous event running into Francis and Claire, and then the show cut away to a real flashback, so it was unclear how much of that was on the web. But in the flashback we did not see Conway holding up his phone filming. So why was that video there at all? Was he filming everyone he talked to at a political cocktail party? I doubt that would go over well in the world of politics. 

The whole thing of making everything on his phone public reminded me of the book The Circle. But I assume he has another phone that he uses for real stuff that he doesn't want to be "transparent".