S06.E09: Christmas Day

[Milburn Stone]

I laughed when Patricia Hodge (Bertie's mother) said, "What I call..."  I'm not used to DA going meta like that.

 

Tom, can you explain the joke? I have a feeling I will laugh heartily when I get it, but I don't recall the context and so I don't. 

[Milburn Stone]

So when does Fellowes choose to end the show? At the very moment, and I mean moment, that entail was made illegal and the family could do with their property what ever they wanted. The Law of Property Act went into effect on January 1st, 1926, the very moment the servants downstairs began to sing Auld Langes Syne.

 

And Fellowes NEVER mentions it.  

 

Was he being ironic? Or did he not do his research?

 

 

I didn't know this, but I have a different reaction from you, now that I know it. It begins with realizing that Fellowes is writing this for an English audience, not an American one. Even if the show is a co-production between the English Carnival Films and the American Masterpiece, Fellowes cares primarily about his English audience. And he presumes, perhaps not without reason, that his English audience is somewhat aware of the Law of Property Act.

 

Therefore, his not mentioning it overtly is not an example of carelessness, but rather subtle irony. He knows the show ends as a new world is about to begin for his characters. And he knows his primary audience knows it.

I'm In the minority but I liked Spratt. The actor had the most marvelous facial expressions.

 

I agree. When he smiled in his last scene, I thought, "So that's what he looks like smiling!"

[pasdetrois]

Watched it last night. To paraphrase Joseph Conrad: "The pander, the pander." Ugh.

[Constantinople]

I didn't know this, but I have a different reaction from you, now that I know it. It begins with realizing that Fellowes is writing this for an English audience, not an American one. Even if the show is a co-production between the English Carnival Films and the American Masterpiece, Fellowes cares primarily about his English audience. And he presumes, perhaps not without reason, that his English audience is somewhat aware of the Law of Property Act.

 

Therefore, his not mentioning it overtly is not an example of carelessness, but rather subtle irony. He knows the show ends as a new world is about to begin for his characters. And he knows his primary audience knows it.

Downton has millions of viewers in the UK. I would be surprised if many viewers in England, or the UK in general, had much awareness of a 90 year old property law outside of some lawyers, and the relatively few number of people affected by the law.

Of course what most people know, and what Fellowes thinks they knew because it's important to him, are two different matters.

[BrianJ62]

Of course what most people know, and what Fellowes thinks they knew because it's important to him, are two different matters.

So Mr. Fellowes is seeing things through his rose-colored glasses.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BrianJ62

[txhorns79]

I enjoyed the episode.  I continue to be baffled by the decision to give so much time this season to Spratt and Denker, but it was nice to see Denker get her comeuppance again.  

[LadyintheLoop]

I liked the fact that were it not for Mary calling up Bertie, that Edith might have been a spinster forever.

 

 

Well, it was the least she could do. And it took some guts, considering how Bertie must have despised her. (Did she confess that she'd spent a lifetime undermining Edith, which might actually have changed his mind?)

 

It was also in her own best interests. Just because Tom and her parents were happy about her marriage didn't mean that they'd forgiven, or forgotten, what she'd done. And Edith's announcement that she was going to take Marigold and move to London had to be the last nail in Mary's doghouse.  

[kassa]

I think Bertie would have shown up at the Magazine one day and plead his case, Mary or no Mary.

 

I also wouldn't consider it sufficient atonement for what Mary did.  Oh, I'd go along to get along, but I suspect we're supposed to think that Edith "owes" her happiness to Mary's intervention, and I just don't buy that.   I certainly hope Edith doesn't.

[BrianJ62]

I think Bertie would have shown up at the Magazine one day and plead his case, Mary or no Mary.

I also wouldn't consider it sufficient atonement for what Mary did. Oh, I'd go along to get along, but I suspect we're supposed to think that Edith "owes" her happiness to Mary's intervention, and I just don't buy that. I certainly hope Edith doesn't.

#GoTeamEdith

[lucindabelle]

Edith's question to Bertie about what he would have done is exactly like his to her about what she would have done. They'll never know now.

 

Why is this show called "Christmas Day" when it skips right over Christmas?

[BrianJ62]

Edith's question to Bertie about what he would have done is exactly like his to her about what she would have done. They'll never know now.

Why is this show called "Christmas Day" when it skips right over Christmas?

What would one for Carson for a stocking stuffer and/or xmas gift?

[Kohola3]

Why is this show called "Christmas Day" when it skips right over Christmas?

 

Was it called Christmas Day or the Christmas special?  They had a Christmas special every season.

[caligirl50]

 

As PP mentioned, I sincerely hope that Dickie leaves his fortune to Isobel and the estate and title to his awful son.

 

I hope Lord Merton leaves Isobel everything.  Screw the kids.

 

 

And, interestingly, Henry was the rude, clumsy one at the shooting party when he and Mary first met, taking Atticus' place.  Bertie was quite polite, behaved well, and also humble. He really was such an ideal gentleman.

 

Henry wasn’t rude or clumsy at the shooting party.  He didn’t know there wasn’t enough room for him.  Mary just decided to chide him about it the entire day.

[iMonrey]

The entail has everything to do with the estate. It probably originated with the formation of the estate dating back to the 1st Earl. It was designed to keep the estate from being broken up into smaller parcels with each succeeding generation.

 

My point to the original poster was that the title "Earl of Grantham" didn't have to go to a male heir because of the entail. It would have had to go to a male heir regardless of entail. The entail simply insured that the money could not be left to Mary, or anyone else. She was never eligible for the earl's title under any circumstance. But she could have inherited the money if not for the entail. That was the whole reason Violet and Cora were so anxious to break the entail after Patrick died. They figured if they could leave her the money, she would at least have better marital prospects among titled fortune hunters. Robert was less enthusiastic about trying to break the entail, because he knew it meant his heir wouldn't get the money he needed to run Downton and would have to sell the estate.

 

This all ended up being a moot point anyway since Robert squandered Cora's fortune in bad investments and only Matthew's inheritance from Mr. Squire saved Downton from insolvency. Now half the estate is Mary's - so I don't see any reason Julian Fellows should have had to revisit the entail business just because property laws changed in 1926. It was irrelevant to the story by then.

Edited March 10, 2016 by iMonrey

[sark1624]

I think Bertie would have shown up at the Magazine one day and plead his case, Mary or no Mary.

 

I also wouldn't consider it sufficient atonement for what Mary did.  Oh, I'd go along to get along, but I suspect we're supposed to think that Edith "owes" her happiness to Mary's intervention, and I just don't buy that.   I certainly hope Edith doesn't.

 

When Edith told him that he only talk with her because of Mary, he quickly said he would do it anyway, and he promised that. So we can assume that Mary help them creating the conditions for the reunification but it was not 100% thanks to her that they came together. And also it was after a while of her marriage, after the honeymoon and all that and only when Violet gave her a accusatory glance. 

[dargosmydaddy]

 

Tom, can you explain the joke? I have a feeling I will laugh heartily when I get it, but I don't recall the context and so I don't.

 

PH was on the British sitcom Miranda​ (starring Miranda Hart, aka Chummy from Call the Midwife), where "What I call..." was her catch phrase. Incidentally, I have watched just enough Miranda to spend the episode wondering why Bertie's mother looked so familiar, but not being able to actually place her.

[jschoolgirl]

PH was on the British sitcom Miranda​ (starring Miranda Hart, aka Chummy from Call the Midwife), where "What I call..." was her catch phrase. Incidentally, I have watched just enough Miranda to spend the episode wondering why Bertie's mother looked so familiar, but not being able to actually place her.

That is interesting because the Downton wiki lists Mrs. Pelham's first name as "Mirada."

Based upon what, I don't know.

ETA: No, it's not a typo. The wiki says "Mirada" in a few instances.

Edited March 10, 2016 by jschoolgirl

[Gimmick Genius]

I don't know why it took me so long to make this connection... In a different review of the Downton finale, the columnist refers to Edith's suitor as a character out of P. G. Wodehouse. Well, Wodehouse's most famous protagonist is an Upper Class Twit, Bertie Wooster (Master of the inestimable Jeeves) with too much money and too little sense for his own good. And Wodehouse's given name was Pelham Grenville. Bertie ... Pelham? I guess Fellowes will steal from any body!

[SusanSunflower]

I have thought that Matthew Goode would make an excellent Bertie Wooster ... perhaps DA's Spratt could be his Jeeves ... the disparity / contrast wrt their respective heft and girth would be amusing just for starters... 

[Llywela]

Why is this show called "Christmas Day" when it skips right over Christmas?

 

Was it called Christmas Day or the Christmas special?  They had a Christmas special every season.

That's correct - the episode is called Christmas Day because it was the Christmas special and aired on Christmas Day.

[Roseanna]

I hope Lord Merton leaves Isobel everything.  Screw the kids.

 

I think we must remember what Lord Grantham once said to Mary: his fortune wasn't created by him but by his ancestors long ago and he was only its guardian and had a duty to pass it to the future heirs. 

 

Even if Lord Morton's son and daughter-in-law are not likeable, they can have children. What kind of grandfather would want to rob the family's fortune from his grandchildren?

​In addition, Isobel is already 60. Why on earth would she want to live alone in the grand house after Lord Merton's death instead of living in her own house near her grandson?   

[BrianJ62]

On the Jimmy Kimmel show John Legend put words to the Downton Abbey beginning theme it's pretty good/hilarious. You can hear it on YouTube.

[Roseanna]

Well, it was the least she could do. And it took some guts, considering how Bertie must have despised her.

 

And because Bertie despised Mary, why on earth he would have consented to speak with her at all, much less believed her, instead of suspecting that she wanted to make to a fool of him by making him wait in the Ritz wait for Edith who never would came?

 

In addition, why on earth could anybody have a discussion about private matters in telephone that was situated in a place to which others could freely come and hear (not to speak of receptionists who could spread rumors). If the idea that Mary helped Bertie and Edith to come together had any sense, Mary would have already earlier had a long discussion Bertie in person and only arranged the meeting in the Ritz in the telephone.

[SusanSunflower]

 

why on earth he would have consented to speak with her at all, much less believed her, instead of suspecting that she wanted to make to a fool of him by making him wait in the Ritz wait for Edith who never would came?

excellent point and I almost laughed out loud imagining that conversation between Mary and Bertie ... after Bertie's return from Tangiers ...  hard to imagine which persuasive argument she made ... I'm picturing something out of AbFab, with Mary played by Joanna Lumley as Patsy ... appealing to Bertie to help her out because she's in everyone's dog house and no one's speaking to her, including Henry ... and of course skeptical Bertie (Saffy) is powerless against Patsy's charm and "reasoning' (and besides it's off camera so no one's the wiser as to just how much money or other favors were exchanged) ... 

Edited March 10, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[jschoolgirl]

I don't know why it took me so long to make this connection... In a different review of the Downton finale, the columnist refers to Edith's suitor as a character out of P. G. Wodehouse. Well, Wodehouse's most famous protagonist is an Upper Class Twit, Bertie Wooster (Master of the inestimable Jeeves) with too much money and too little sense for his own good. And Wodehouse's given name was Pelham Grenville. Bertie ... Pelham? I guess Fellowes will steal from any body!

He probably though he was being witty and arch.

On the Jimmy Kimmel show John Legend put words to the Downton Abbey beginning theme it's pretty good/hilarious. You can hear it on YouTube.

Actually it does have real lyrics. I found a version on YouTube a few years back.

[kassa]

Probably not about scones and Mr. Bates being a murderer, though.

[jschoolgirl]

Here you are:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s0AbTiBYrbg

ETA text of lyrics:

http://www.gpb.org/blogs/desperate-for-downton/2013/07/29/sing-the-downton-abbey-theme-song-here-are-the-lyrics

Edited March 10, 2016 by jschoolgirl

[LadyintheLoop]

And because Bertie despised Mary, why on earth he would have consented to speak with her at all[?]

 

 

Because he was a gentleman?

 

Involving Mary in the reconciliation was a weak plot point and "You gave me my life back" was way over the top, but it was only right for Edith to make some acknowledgment of Mary's effort. After all, she'd expressed herself so very freely before.

[andipandi]

The recap mentions that Edith confessed the truth to Marigold to her future MIL, who respected her honesty. Did I sleep through that part, or did that get cut from the US PBS broadcast?

[helenamonster]

The recap mentions that Edith confessed the truth to Marigold to her future MIL, who respected her honesty. Did I sleep through that part, or did that get cut from the US PBS broadcast?

 

It happened on the US broadcast.

Edited March 11, 2016 by helenamonster

[Spunkygal]

The recap mentions that Edith confessed the truth to Marigold to her future MIL, who respected her honesty. Did I sleep through that part, or did that get cut from the US PBS broadcast?

The morning of the engagement dinner, she went into MIL's study and MIL asked if breakfast was over. Edith said it was and she had to tell her something that Bertie already knew. But they cut away so we didn't see the actual confession.

[proserpina65]

The recap mentions that Edith confessed the truth to Marigold to her future MIL, who respected her honesty. Did I sleep through that part, or did that get cut from the US PBS broadcast?

We didn't see the actual conversation, just Edith telling MIL that they had something to discuss and that Bertie knew what it was.  Then we saw the aftermath: MIL's conversation with Bertie, the dinner, the Crawleys' conversation with MIL after dinner.

[Roseanna]

The recap mentions that Edith confessed the truth to Marigold to her future MIL, who respected her honesty.

 

A rather odd recap, because Mrs Pelham originally called Edith "damaged goods" to Bertie and when he praised Edith's "high regard of truth", she asked with contempt whether it would make her "shame" smaller. Only when Lord Grantham had urged her to announce the engagement if she didn't want to break her relationships with Bertie, she afterwards praised Edith's honesty.

[nara]

A rather odd recap, because Mrs Pelham originally called Edith "damaged goods" to Bertie and when he praised Edith's "high regard of truth", she asked with contempt whether it would make her "shame" smaller. Only when Lord Grantham had urged her to announce the engagement if she didn't want to break her relationships with Bertie, she afterwards praised Edith's honesty.

I think it makes sense. She respected Edith's courage in telling her the truth, but in her mind that truth still made her an unacceptable bride for Bertie

Edited March 12, 2016 by nara

[AndySmith]

In the end, her own moral judgement plus the possible scandal down the line affecting Bertie's social reputation, but probably more importantly how it would affect her own social reputation in her thinking, were probably the main reasons why she opposed the marriage.

 

She may have been won over by Edith. Or she may have realized Bertie was going to marry Edith anyway, and since she has no real title of her own, better to remain in Bertie's good graces and ride that gravy train while she can. Or maybe a mix of both.

 

I do think, had the situation been different, ie, had Bertie's father been the one to inherit the title and she being either a Marchioness or Dowager Marchioness herself, her reaction to the situation may have been completely different.

[kassygreene]

I think having it made clear to her that if she didn't welcome Edith Bertie would still choose her, and she would (probably within a year) be eased out of the Castle and relegated to a more Dowager-ish but definitely separate lifestyle.  So she found what was a very good reason to accept the situation.

[staveDarsky]

I'm sure the date of the change in the entail law coinciding with the end date of Downton's story was no coincidence. It's also interesting to me that less than four months later the present monarch was born. So Mary's second baby would be about the same age as QE2 and George is about the same age (at least the same year, 1921) as Prince Philip. Probably not a coincidence either on Fellowes' part. Interesting too that it only came into effect three years ago that the throne can pass to the eldest heir of the monarch, regardless of gender. There's a symmetry in the law changes of the past and now.

 

I do find the accepting of Marigold to be out of synch with the times. In my own family history, when one of my great aunts was faced with childlessness and wanted to adopt, she and her husband were forbidden to adopt by her father - a strict Church of England man. Unrelated adopted children were seen as a huge risk to a family because their roots were usually in the lower classes. Even through the family knew Edith was the real mother, it would cause tongues to wag amongst the townsfolk who would assume Marigold was from a poor background. Dr Barnardos and agencies like them were still in existence to ship children of poor families off to  hard labour in the colonies until after World War II.

Edited March 12, 2016 by staveDarsky

[shang yiet]

In Silas Marner, upper class Dunstan Cass and his wife offered to adopt working class teenager Eppie, Silas' adopted daughter who is secretly Dunstan's biological illegitimate daughter. They wanted to bring her up as a gentlewoman. I don't know what the townsfolk would have said or assumed, though.

[KLovestoShop]

I can see openings for another series, if JF wants to do it. It could be based on the lives of Mary, Edith, Tom and their spouses and kids. It could also include the Bates' and Daisy with Andy, if she marries him. No focusing on the older generation except for an occasional appearance. It could be interesting to see what happens up until WWII.

[caligirl50]

George will be old enough to serve in WWII, not that JF will go near WWII. He said as much in an early interview.  

Also, since JF wrote the entire DA series, I cannot imagine him wanting to do a spinoff series.  A script for a film, sure.  We all know how he feels about himself.  I would think he wants to move on to do other things.

[Sew Sumi]

That's correct - the episode is called Christmas Day because it was the Christmas special and aired on Christmas Day.

Wrong. The Christmas Specials each have different titles. It just became known as such because the first one (S2) was centered around Christmas as well as airing on Christmas, much like this one. However, for instance, S4's "Christmas Special" was entitled "The London Season" (the episode where Rose "came out" and they had the madcap letter-stealing caper). Spring or summer (definitely not winter). S3's "Christmas Special" was "A Trip to the Highlands," where we met Shrimpie, Susan, and Rose, and lost Matthew. Summertime. 

[Llywela]

Wrong. The Christmas Specials each have different titles. It just became known as such because the first one (S2) was centered around Christmas as well as airing on Christmas, much like this one. However, for instance, S4's "Christmas Special" was entitled "The London Season" (the episode where Rose "came out" and they had the madcap letter-stealing caper). Spring or summer (definitely not winter). S3's "Christmas Special" was "A Trip to the Highlands," where we met Shrimpie, Susan, and Rose, and lost Matthew. Summertime. 

No, they became known as Christmas specials because they aired on Christmas Day, not because the first one was set at Christmas. Lots of our shows have Christmas specials, the name isn't unique to Downton. And sure, most of Downton's Christmas specials have had titles related to the story happening within them, but since this one was called 'Christmas Day' while not actually featuring the events of Christmas Day, it seems reasonable to assume it was named instead for the day on which it aired rather than any significant event within it.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Llywela

[EccentricLily]

I enjoyed the final season very much for the most part, despite Daisy’s histrionics. The first season and the final are my favorites of the entire series. I really have no complaints about the final episode, even with the seemingly overabundance of fortuitous events and happy endings. I decided to simply accept them as they were written, even if such an abundance of fair fortune seldom occurs during such a brief span of time, and especially at Downton Abbey.

I like to think that at some future date, having gathered for reasons sad or festive, the Crawleys and their friends will think back to that one remarkable holiday season back in 1924 when they had so much to celebrate and be thankful for, before gloomy events of one sort or another closed in on their world yet again. I would love to hear all of the reminiscing.

One thing really did jump out at me. Maybe it was her blue eyes and coloring, and the cloche, but Bertie’s mother’s looks so reminded me of Lady Diana Cooper at a similar age that I poked Mr. Beetle in the ribs and said so. Just imagine my surprise when I looked up actress Patricia Hodge and discovered that she had played Lady Diana in 1978’s “Edward and Mrs. Simpson”. (Must dust that set off and re-watch.)

I’ll miss the show, the unbelievable costumes, the accoutrements, the settings, and most of the characters. I’ll miss reading the rehashing on the message boards. I just can’t quite believe it’s finished.

 

What a yawning void has Sunday night become!

 

(And holy smokes, what a change in gears to switch to Game of Thrones late next month.)

[jschoolgirl]

the seemingly overabundance of fortuitous events and happy endings.

Well, they can store them up as a fortification for the awful events to come.

I hope Edith still becomes "one of the interesting women of the day."

[AndySmith]

Lady Diana Cooper

 

She does sound interesting...daughter of a Duke (or not), actress, ambassador's wife, featured on the cover of Time magazine, with her husband being a poet and later being awarded a title of Viscount...maybe JF should do a mini-series about them...

[Avaleigh]

All the upstairs women on this show, including Violet, Cora, Rose, even Mary and now Isobel, outrank her. Being the mother of a Marquess does have some cache, of course - I imagine people will try to get to Bertie through her, and she'll definitely be invited to tons of parties and events and whatnot hoping it'll trickle back to him - but at the end of the day, she is a commoner.

Technically, isn't a commoner anyone who isn't a royal? I remember reading that it was a big deal that Prince Charles married a commoner like Lady Diana Spencer as opposed to possibly marrying a foreign princess. 

[AndySmith]

Commoner usually refers to anyone to who isn't a part of nobility, someone without rank or title. By that definition, Violet, Cora, Rose, Mary, Edith, and (presumably) Isobel are all titled nobility, so they can't be commoners. Bertie's mother is, though, since she has no title or rank.

 

Diana was the daughter of an Earl, so she was already titled before she married Charles. Her title before was Lady Diana Spencer. Obviously, not the same as a Princess, but still part of the nobility in the UK.

 

Today, lots of people do use the term when referring to anyone who isn't royalty, but people also use it to describe anyone who isn't a part of the 1%. In Diana's case, it might be that someone was throwing shade at her when they made that reference. Let's not forget, the media wasn't always so kind to her before her death. The big deal might have been that he wasn't marrying an actual royal?

Edited March 17, 2016 by AndySmith

[Llywela]

Lady Diana Spencer wasn't a commoner - but Kate Middleton was when she married Prince William, and there was plenty written in the press about that. You may be conflating the two, perhaps?

[Dejana]

Diana wasn't a royal and previous next-in-lines traditionally married other royals: Elizabeth (though Prince Philip renounced his titles before marrying her), Edwardian Edward, Victoria (she was already queen when she married but the same concept), her father, grandfather, and so on. The Queen Mother was "merely" an earl's daughter but Bertie (George VI) wasn't the heir apparent when they married, and it was considered kind of progressive for the time that he was allowed to date/marry a non-royal, even if she did have a title. Would've been interesting to see Carson the mega snob weigh in on the royal wedding of the day (the future Queen sported a dress/veil very much of the era) but I think it happened between seasons.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Dejana

[PRgal]

Diana wasn't a royal and previous next-in-lines traditionally married other royals: Elizabeth (though Prince Philip renounced his titles before marrying her), Edwardian Edward, Victoria (she was already queen when she married but the same concept), her father, grandfather, and so on. The Queen Mother was "merely" an earl's daughter but Bertie (George VI) wasn't the heir apparent when they married, and it was considered kind of progressive for the time that he was allowed to date/marry a non-royal, even if she did have a title. Would've been interesting to see Carson the mega snob weigh in on the royal wedding of the day (the future Queen sported a dress/veil very much of the era) but I think it happened between seasons.

Wasn't Bertie and Elizabeth's wedding filmed? Wonder what Carson would have thought of that.