Justice League (2017)

[Lantern7]

I thought it was okay. Second-best DCEU film so far, but that is not saying a lot. I'm thinking the reduced runtime was a factor . . . if 30-40 minutes were added, it would be more a slog like most of the line of movies thus far. Basically, it was a good film. Just not as good as Wonder Woman. Or the slightly better-than-average Marvel movies. Black Panther will have more heart, the second Deadpool movie will bring the irreverence.

Good thing I didn't see this sooner. I would've been deafened by the moans upon the realization that Lex Luthor was still going to be a thing. After BvS, he should have been locked in a cell covered in concrete. Deathstroke looks better here, though I reckon the Slade from Arrow set the bar pretty high.

Speaking of the TV shows . . . if it turns out that Barry's favorite band is Better Than Ezra, I wouldn't be shocked. We didn't need a Barry more rooted to the comics . . . but the writers took this Barry and made his a bigger goof than the "Arrowverse" version. It just felt a little forced . . . though seeing Flash react at ZombieSuperman's reaction to him was funny. Thanks, Warner Bros. marketing department, for not showing that in your ads!

Wonder Woman? Still awesome, though the butt shots were too much. Cyborg was good. Aquaman? Still feels like people trying too hard to sell people on the concept. I still think of him as a Hell's Angel with a giant sea horse instead of a hog.

I think Batman was better. He wasn't branding criminals, right? "Good to have you back, Clark." "Same here. Listen . . . are you still applying a white-hot iron to the foreheads of bad guys, signifying that you made them your bitch?" "Um . . . " "That's barely better than if I used heat vision full blast."

What's next for the DCEU? After Green Lantern, I'm not really enthusiastic about introducing Lanterns to the DCEU proper. I'm willing to guess the one in the flashback was named as soon as last Sunday.

ETA: Checked Wikipedia. Aquaman is scheduled for December 2018. Meanwhile, Disney will have churned out three MCU movies, including the "all roads lead here" Infinity War. Cut to Tony Stark: "Not a great plan."

[Morrigan2575]

Does not bode well for the future of the DCEU.

http://uproxx.com/hitfix/justice-league-box-office-bomb/

[Spartan Girl]

I don't care as long as we still have Wonder Woman.

[stealinghome]

Wow. I don’t mean to pile on Snyder, but WOW, how did he take properties that should have been absolutely slam dunks and turned them into huge losses? I mean, damn.

(Obligatory “the WB should’ve seen this coming and ditched Snyder way before they actually did” comment.)

[DollEyes]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don't care as long as we still have Wonder Woman.

And Aquaman. I just saw the movie yesterday and Jason Momoa is damn hot. And by "damn," I mean, DAAAAYYYYMMM!!

Edited November 25, 2017 by DollEyes

[Spartan Girl]

Is it wrong that I wouldn't hate it if Wonder Woman and Aquaman hooked up, or at least flirted a little more? I could buy that better than her hooking up with Batfleck.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Is it wrong that I wouldn't hate it if Wonder Woman and Aquaman hooked up, or at least flirted a little more? I could buy that better than her hooking up with Batfleck.

He's MARRIED!!!! Or are he and Mera just...dating? Plus, if they were to do that, it would give me visions of that horror of a world from Justice League: Flashpoint, where Diana and Arthur were at war, and we saw they had a one night stand, and Mera saw them, and the result was not pretty. So no. Just no.??

And why am I even saying anything, since I have no interest in this movie????

[Glory]

I liked it! It was definitely choppy, but I liked a lot of it. After growing up reading Superman comics and watching cartoons, there is something to be said for finally seeing the Justice League on the big screen! 

When Clark and Lois were reunited I was a sniffling mess. And seeing Superman finally get to be Superman was just so much fun. 

The initial footage of Ezra Miller as the Flash didn't have me too excited, but I thought he did great! And Jason Mamoa as Aquaman was wonderful. Side note: I need for Jason Mamoa and Joe Manganiello to share screen, desperately. Preferably shirtless. That'd be fantastic. 

Cyborg was just there. I actually thought that Blue Beetle would have been an AWESOME tech person to have in place of Cyborg. Plus, he was much more involved with Justice League's early incarnations than Cyborg was! I also would have liked for Ted Kord and Bruce Wayne to have shared screentime together, but that's probably more one little nerd girl's dream than anything that would actually happen. 

I'm still a little bitter that we got the garbage that was Batman v Superman instead of a true telling of the Death of Superman. I mean, it practically lends itself to the Marvel treatment. One or two movies to set up Superman and Lois and Clark. Have him run into folks like Jon Jones, the Lantern Corp, etc.. in those two movies. Then you have the Justice League team-up movie be the actual coming of Doomsday and Superman's death. It's already fucking written. I don't know how this wasn't obvious to every single person over at DC and Warner Brothers. 

Ahem. That was a tangent. Anyway, I liked it a lot. 

On 11/20/2017 at 8:25 AM, Proclone said:

That brings me to, how the hell are they going to explain how Clark Kent (not Superman) came back from the dead.  I assume that there's a mechanism from the comics but they didn't touch on that in the film.  Does it matter anymore since there are a bunch of cops that know Superman's name is Clark now?  vested in one movie but not with the bare bones editing that we got in this one.  It's like DC just assumes everyone is familiar with all their characters, and while that might be sort of true it's not an excuse for not giving them characterization on screen.  I think in many ways Marvel was lucky that it's character were by in large not as popular as DC because they were forced to actually tell their audience about them and not just rely on what everyone already knows about them.

In the comics, Superman dies after fighting Doomsday all through the streets of Metropolis. He's only dead a week or two before he's brought back to life - well, there's more to it than that, obviously.  But basically, there is a lot of wreckage in Metropolis and they're still pulling people and bodies out of the rubble. There is a scene were Supergirl posing as Superman (don't ask - there was a time where she was a clone of Superman who had the ability to shapeshift) pretends to pull "Clark" out of the wreckage and he explains that he was buried in rubble for weeks but he was able to get water from some nearby pipe so as to not die. 

 

On 11/21/2017 at 0:25 PM, JustaPerson said:

Legit my favorite scene of Man of Steel was the last one, when Lois Lane says "welcome to the Planet" and Clark smiles. His smile is so lovely!

I remember walking out of that movie SO EXCITED for the next movie, thinking we'd finally get a light-hearted Superman. Oh, how naive I was! 

[Terrafamilia]

On 11/21/2017 at 3:39 AM, JessePinkman said:

I’ll never get over Flash’s dorky ass running. What was that?

Glad to know I'm not the only one who thought that. I also thought the speed lighting was excessive. I hope Bruce put the best surge protectors available in all his stuff.

Maybe the little Russian girl will grow up to be Rocket Red.

They are still trying to make Aquaman a thing. He doesn't even swim anymore but is basically an underwater projectile.

I still think Superman's super suit just looks wrong without the red shorts on the outside.

The less said about Steppenwolf the better. I would have hoped they would have learned something from the Hobbit movies about using CGI to replace a real actor as a villain. I was also hoping for a more convincing BOOM! from the Boom Tube.

So that was Joe Magnolia as Deathstroke? I was wondering whether or not they used Manu Bennett.

[Lantern7]

6 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Wow. I don’t mean to pile on Snyder, but WOW, how did he take properties that should have been absolutely slam dunks and turned them into huge losses? I mean, damn.

He shouldn't have gotten near Watchmen. Way too epic for a movie, even if you had three hours to work with. I'd also throw in getting attacked by a serpent god sent by Alan Moore while you're on the toilet, but I think he's way past being pissed off at this point.

How much was cut? Remember showing you the blind item figures I got? I wonder if the Vulko figures would sell for a little more because of his exclusion.

"Do you bleed?" That was funny. Menacing from ZombieSuperman, but a sweet callback.

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He's MARRIED!!!! Or are he and Mera just...dating? Plus, if they were to do that, it would give me visions of that horror of a world from Justice League: Flashpoint, where Diana and Arthur were at war, and we saw they had a one night stand, and Mera saw them, and the result was not pretty. So no. Just no.??

Ugh, no not ever ever ever do we need to see that Diana Arthur familial squabbling writ pointlessly large in Flashpoint or that Jerry Springer-esque hellscape of an affair gone wrong and Diana and Mera making the least feminist choices in Flashpoint Paradox. Blergh. They both suck epically. But given that Wonder Woman established that the Amazons have been isolated on Themyscira, it's doubtful we'll see the motivation from Flashpoint and much more likely that we'll see the motivation from Flashpoint Paradox. Ugh.

Edited November 26, 2017 by HunterHunted

[Raja]

21 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Wow. I don’t mean to pile on Snyder, but WOW, how did he take properties that should have been absolutely slam dunks and turned them into huge losses? I mean, damn.

(Obligatory “the WB should’ve seen this coming and ditched Snyder way before they actually did” comment.)

My opinion is trying to turn  comics into a darkish knights graphic novels set of movies. Sure it would work for one critically acclaimed movie. But for a franchise you need the light fun.

That said I really liked Justice League, more than anyother DC movie besides Michael Keaton's first Batman.

[Spartan Girl]

19 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

He's MARRIED!!!! Or are he and Mera just...dating? Plus, if they were to do that, it would give me visions of that horror of a world from Justice League: Flashpoint, where Diana and Arthur were at war, and we saw they had a one night stand, and Mera saw them, and the result was not pretty. So no. Just no.??

And why am I even saying anything, since I have no interest in this movie????

 

10 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Ugh, no not ever ever ever do we need to see that Diana Arthur familial squabbling writ pointlessly large in Flashpoint or that Jerry Springer-esque hellscape of an affair gone wrong and Diana and Mera making the least feminist choices in Flashpoint Paradox. Blergh. They both suck epically. But given that Wonder Woman established that the Amazons have been isolated on Themyscira, it's doubtful we'll see the motivation from Flashpoint and much more likely that we'll see the motivation from Flashpoint Paradox. Ugh.

My apologies. I'm not familiar with Aquaman in the comics and I never saw the Flashpoint movie. You're right, we don't need any of that. I guess I just let my lust for Momoa blind me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

My apologies. I'm not familiar with Aquaman in the comics and I never saw the Flashpoint movie. You're right, we don't need any of that. I guess I just let my lust for Momoa blind me.

As much as I love Barry in that movie, I hate it so much because that story is what gave us the “New 52” which fucked up a lot of characters and their relationships.

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

As much as I love Barry in that movie, I hate it so much because that story is what gave us the “New 52” which fucked up a lot of characters and their relationships.

The New 52, which DC is already walking back. I hate Flashpoint Paradox so much. It does fit with parts of the DCEU murderverse. Flashpoint Paradox Diana is correct up to a point because Mera did try to murder Diana, but to escalate the conflict into a world war that results in global annihilation is a bridge too far. To see Diana turn into a man hating war monger who murders children and Arthur become enough of a nihilist that he blithely tries to decimate the population of Earth including those underwater is such a singularly unpleasant viewing experience. I don't think the characterization entirely fits with the Diana of the DCEU, but then again Diana in the DCEU did stop being Wonder Woman for 80 years for no good reason. I did like Barry in that movie. For anyone interested, the entire film is available to watch on CW Seed.

Back to Justice League, I don't know that there is a true Zack Snyder edit of Justice League. He left so early in editing and before final VFX. I've never liked the idea of Cyborg in the Justice League. The movie did precious little with him. By many accounts though, a decent chunk of his scenes were cut.

[GHScorpiosRule]

PREACH IT @HunterHunted!!!!!!

[Lantern7]

I would be good with badass Thomas Wayne. Gal Gadot as a more amoral Wonder Woman who doesn't radiate compassion? Not so much.

Identity of Green Lantern in flashback might have been identified. Of course, this one hails from Sector 2814.

[Peace 47]

Oh man, I was just reading that the Lois and Clark cornfield scene from the trailer (which I had assumed was Lois’s dream)—“I’ll take that as a ‘yes’ ” / “What?” / “The ring”—was actually real but cut from the final film?  Blergh.  What an adorable proposal.  And we’ll never get Lois’s response.  Super disappointing.

Separately, I was reading that the scene where Diana saves those people from the suitcase bomber might have been different in the Snyder version because the trailer showed that building exploding from the outside?  If so, that may have been a wise reshoot—that Capitol explosion scene in BvS was so disheartening.

[tennisgurl]

Ben Affleck`s Batman doesn't really work for me in general (even though he was better in this one than the twitchy psychopath we got in the last movie), but there was one scene I really liked with him. It was the part where he asks Aquaman if he can ask the fish in the ocean to look around to see if they see anything weird in the sea, and then to report back. He just had this expression that screamed "I cannot believe my life has gotten to the point where I am asking a guy to talk to his fish friends and help me out. But...here we are" without going overboard. It was pretty hilarious. 

[JustaPerson]

3 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Oh man, I was just reading that the Lois and Clark cornfield scene from the trailer (which I had assumed was Lois’s dream)—“I’ll take that as a ‘yes’ ” / “What?” / “The ring”—was actually real but cut from the final film?  Blergh.  What an adorable proposal.  And we’ll never get Lois’s response.  Super disappointing.

I forgot about that scene! It was great, and actually made me vaguely interested in seeing the film

[johntfs]

On 11/19/2017 at 10:07 AM, Bruinsfan said:

I guess they're abandoning the parallel of Greek mythology and history, which would have seen Herakles sacking the Amazons' mainland city around the 13th century BCE.)

That was never a thing in this universe.  The first men to set foot on Themyscira (that we know of) was Steve Trevor and the Germans chasing him.

[MarkHB]

11 hours ago, johntfs said:

That was never a thing in this universe.  The first men to set foot on Themyscira (that we know of) was Steve Trevor and the Germans chasing him.

That was before they moved to Themyscira; it may have been part of what we saw in the WW backstory.

However, folks, please remember that this is the JL thread, and we have another for general discussion of the DCEU.

[slowpoked]

I was pleasantly surprised by this movie. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, given the horrible reviews, so I guess that helped, coming in with very low expecations. I was expecting another ineptitude like BvS and Suicide Squad, but I would put this above those two. Of course, nothing can touch WW - probably only WW2 will.

My main gripe on the movie is that first third of the movie where they were assembling everyone was really clunky, and it could have been a lot smoother. It jumped so much it was hard to follow at times. And I think they could have done away with that random WW scene with the terrorist in the museum. But once they all got together and the storyline got moving, it wasn't so bad. I thought the premise of resurrecting Superman was a very interesting storyline to tackle on, and one that I wish they would have spent more time on, rather than resolving it immediately by having Lois Lane show up. See, I think if they had done away with that random WW scene in the beginning, and started this movie with Batman and WW ALREADY working together to gather the rest of the troops, they would have had more time to explore Superman's resurrection. A longer storyline on that one and this would have been a much better movie. 

Of course, we'll always have the bland, big villain of the day, but I honestly would not take that against this movie. Almost all superhero movies suffer that trope, even the Marvel ones. I haven't seen a compelling villain since Heath Ledger's Joker, anyway, so Steppanwolf is just your typical run-of-the-mill one, I guess. 

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Of course, we'll always have the bland, big villain of the day, but I honestly would not take that against this movie. Almost all superhero movies suffer that trope, even the Marvel ones. I haven't seen a compelling villain since Heath Ledger's Joker, anyway, so Steppanwolf is just your typical run-of-the-mill one, I guess. 

The better Marvel movies realize that there needs to be personal emotional investments underscoring the hero's actions and journey. The best Marvel villain is Loki because he has all of that family stuff knocking around every time he shows up on the screen and his defeat at the hands of the Avengers. Steppenwolf is as bland and as bad as Dormamu, Surtur, Malekith, and Laufey. Hilariously, most of these are Thor's villains. 

In the example of personal investment with the hero, we have Captain America. In the first movie he's fighting Nazis and the Red Skull. By the second, he's fighting his brainwashed best friend and a man he's come to respect, but has turned out to be a secret fascist. In his third movie, he's fighting his friends. All of the villains in Guardians are basically family. Ultron was another villain all about Tony Stark's ego. Ares was an afterthought in Wonder Woman, but the majority of Diana's battle is about herself. Thanos is a big old non-entity to the majority of the MCU, but I imagine there will be enough interpersonal squabbling that we'll miss that point.

Unfortunately, most of the members of the Justice League are complete strangers to each other so that their jabs didn't really land. The same was true in Avengers, but Marvel wisely made sure every Avenger had an existing independent relationship with Nick Fury or Coulson to play off of. 

It's too bad that DC couldn't have paired Flash and Superman up prior to this film in a sequel to Man of Steel. And Batman and Aquaman in a film of their own. And Cyborg and Ambien.

Edited November 28, 2017 by HunterHunted

[Joimiaroxeu]

Well, it's not the worst DC Universe movie I've seen--Batman vs. Superman still owns that honor.

The good:

• Jason Momoa is an actual god, right?
• The fellow playing Flash was adorable.
• Wonder Woman kicked all kinds of ass yet again.

The bad:

• Two of the actors seemed to be phoning it in and came across to me like they were so over playing these superhero parts.
• Sorry but I am not here for Zombie Superman or SuperFrankenman or whatever he was. Everyone knew Superman wasn't going to stay dead so why did the producers even bother?
• The Cyborg character really got the short shrift. He's the only one we didn't see much of him in his "civilian" form and I found it hard to get at all invested in him.

Through the whole movie I was waiting hear some sampling from a Steppenwolf song. No joy. Then when Superman finally showed up for the final battle with movie Steppenwolf I was hoping someone would start singing "Everything is awesome, everything is cool when you're part of a team!" And every time the Parademons showed up I kept expecting to hear the flying monkeys music from the Wizard of Oz.

Hear tell Affleck doesn't want to do Batman anymore. If it were up to me I'd recast both Batman and Superman.

[Bruinsfan]

We differ on that last point, in my opinion exactly none of the problems with Superman as a character have been due to Henry Cavill (unless you count the mustache thing, but that was really Paramount's doing). Portraying both the optimistic middle American wholesomeness of Clark Kent and the sweeping grandeur of Superman is a tough balancing act. Henry has it down cold, whereas Brandon Routh, Dean Cain, and Tom Welling did not. (And much as I love him, Tyler Hoechlin comes off more as someone dressing up as Superman for a costume party, though I think his Clark is perfect.) Bonus, he's remained highly enthused about playing the character through several years full of critical censure, rather than becoming an apathy-based meme at the first hint of bad reviews.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[cambridgeguy]

Story about some of the troubles behing Justice League

I don't remember the initial reaction but the studio heads weren't very smart if they thought Snyder was a good fit for Superman, let alone all of the other heroes who don't dress up as a bat,

[scriggle]

Another really interesting read: Let’s Try to Piece Together What Zack Snyder’s Version of ‘Justice League’ Was Like

It confirms my belief that Snyder should never have been let anywhere bear Superman.

[Matt K]

This article is interesting:  http://uproxx.com/hitfix/justice-league-rushed-release-date-frankenstein/

 

Apparently a lot of people wanted to pull Snyder and push back the movie to make it right.  But because of the possible At&T merger, they didn't in order to keep their bonuses.  Apparently they were worried those bonuses would go away after the merger or they would be out from those positions.  Which is funny since the AT&T merger is being held up and those people might very well loose their jobs since the movie effectively flopped as it is unlikely to make back its budget.  This video despite being from last week is a pretty good postmotum of DC's future https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5aDhgseQHo

 

ETA: It's also interesting to note that every DC comic movie since Batman v Superman has done worse than the movie that came before. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Matt K

[starri]

8 hours ago, Matt K said:

ETA: It's also interesting to note that every DC comic movie since Batman v Superman has done worse than the movie that came before. 

Wonder Woman made a lot more money than Suicide Squad.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Wonder Woman made a lot more money than Suicide Squad.

The chart I saw was comparing opening weekends. Those have been a steady decline since BvS. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[starri]

I don't know if opening weekends are really the best metric.  These movies are always front loaded by default.  These huge opening weekends may make for an exciting story, but a bigger hunk of the total is how much audience it holds onto week to week.  BvS and SS fell off a cliff between their first to weeks.  WW didn't.

[Bruinsfan]

Wonder Woman turned out to be considerably more profitable for Warner Bros. than those two movies, in addition to giving them the kind of critical praise they haven't experienced since the Nolan Batman films.

[kdm07]

On 11/30/2017 at 7:24 PM, cambridgeguy said:

Story about some of the troubles behing Justice League

I don't remember the initial reaction but the studio heads weren't very smart if they thought Snyder was a good fit for Superman, let alone all of the other heroes who don't dress up as a bat,

My initial reaction when I hard that Snyder was at the helm of the universe was

His take on the Watchmen made me not want him associated to anything that has some of my favourite characters. Turns out I was right in my initial outrage.

Reading through the thread makes me feel better about not going to watch this at the cinema. I watched Coco instead (which was brilliant).

Edited December 4, 2017 by kdm07

[Morrigan2575]

On 12/1/2017 at 9:12 PM, starri said:

I don't know if opening weekends are really the best metric.  These movies are always front loaded by default.  These huge opening weekends may make for an exciting story, but a bigger hunk of the total is how much audience it holds onto week to week.  BvS and SS fell off a cliff between their first to weeks.  WW didn't.

I think that's the point, Big Action Flicks (Comicbook movies) are front heavy, if the opening weekends keep decreasing with each new movie then the overall take will continue to fall. Wonder Woman is pretty much the exception to the rule.

[Captain Carrot]

46 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Wonder Woman is pretty much the exception to the rule.

I actually think that post BvS and Suicide Squad, the rule for DCEU movies doesn't match regular blockbuster movies when it comes to the first weekend. Personally, I don't even consider going to these movies on the first weekend. Instead I wait for the reviews and word of mouth, then make a decision. In the case of Wonder Woman, I ended up seeing it on the third weekend it was out.

I think a lot of other people are doing the same thing. If I'm right then WW benefited from this, but people saved their money when it came to JL.

[Morrigan2575]

24 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

I think a lot of other people are doing the same thing. If I'm right then WW benefited from this, but people saved their money when it came to JL.

It's entirely possible that people are taking a wait and see approach with DCEU.

[BetterButter]

The ‘Justice League’ That Might Have Been

[Jediknight]

On 12/5/2017 at 10:34 AM, BetterButter said:

The ‘Justice League’ That Might Have Been

My Zod, that's an entire freaking trilogy in one movie.

[Matt K]

I forgot to post this earlier but here's the deep dive into why Justice League may loose WB $50-100 Million.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/11/20/warner-bros-faces-a-possible-50m-to-100m-loss-on-justice-league/#2b4e87595d8b

It's an older article (from Nov 20 but the box office predictions appear to be accurate so far as this is essentially the last weekend to bring in any decent amount of money) and it also gets into why foreign box office take isn't as big a deal as some news articles make it seem since WB gets only a small fraction of that money (and even smaller in the case of countries like China).

[shrewd.buddha]

We finally saw JL on the third weekend. Somehow, it didn't feel like a movie ..  it felt like an odd experience - - maybe because I had heard and seen way too much about this movie before actually seeing it. Nothing felt fresh - it was as if seeing all the trailers (so many trailers) assembled together in the proper order.  I was neither over or underwhelmed. I was not whelmed at all. 
The things that stood out to me where : 

• Why are they continually portraying Martha Kent like Granny Clampett of the Beverly Hillbillies? Why would Superman's Mom even have a mortgage on her farm? Her. Son. Is. Superman(!).
• It was odd to see Flash portrayed as a mousy, socially awkward weirdo with nervous twitches. His costume overwhelmed him.
• The lighter moments helped - but they did seem  tacked on in some cases.
• Why was Steppenwolf not created from an actual actor? Having a giant CGI villian made the battle scenes seem almost cartoon-ish.
• After the open battle between the JL and the newly resurrected Kal-El, there really should be no possibility of a secret identify for Superman, right? Right? 
• That one Russian family .... and no one else...  So weird. 
• If I was not already familiar with Cyborg's (multiple) origins, I would not have understood his character or abilities at all. It seems they really just wanted a lot of scenes of an angry young man in a hoodie. 
• How long had it been since B.v.S? Because Batman had been tracking Cyborg before Superman died - - but JL made it appear as if Cyborg had just recently had his accident. 
• Batman scours the Earth for super-heroes (taking long enough to grow a full, trimmed beard) .. and all he found were these four people? Why not Mera? She seemed pretty powerful. 
• Bruce Wayne hikes through mountains ... for months? He couldn't build a Bat-thing that would speed up the search process?
• Thank goodness they didn't manage to ruin Wonder Woman. She is the determined, yet optimistic ideal they should be modeling their heroes after. 

I would be okay with WB just scrapping this entire take of the DC characters and starting over. The dark and gritty antiheroes that Snyder and company have created may appeal to a particular audience, but the box office seems to indicate that their overall appeal is going the way of the 90's heavy metal hair bands and the 80's action-hero movies. 

I would be happy to never again see Kevin Costner's  Jonathan Kent and his conspiracy-theory craziness. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[MarkHB]

On 12/7/2017 at 6:49 AM, Jediknight said:

My Zod, that's an entire freaking trilogy in one movie.

My first thought when I read it was, "and people thought BvS was to crowded..."

On 12/7/2017 at 2:04 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

their overall appeal is going the way of the 90's heavy metal hair bands and the 80's action-hero movies. 

Some of us feel that those are two things that need to return to the forefront of popular culture... ;)

[sacrebleu]

Quote

That brings me to, how the hell are they going to explain how Clark Kent (not Superman) came back from the dead.

heh. when I saw the movie with friends this weekend-- someone posed that very same question. I replied, they just got him a new pair of glasses, and told everyone his name was Mark Ment. No one questioned it.

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

heh. when I saw the movie with friends this weekend-- someone posed that very same question. I replied, they just got him a new pair of glasses, and told everyone his name was Mark Ment. No one questioned it.

Luckily Clark has the sketchiest work history. They can always claim that he was off on one of his jaunts walking the earth being a commercial fisherman, bartender, or random hand on a completely illegitimate arctic expedition. Or heck, they can say he went off to recuperate some place remote. The other thing is that with disasters, it takes years to sort out records about the dead and injured. With the massive scale of the destruction, I think it could be argued that Clark could have slipped out of Metropolis and recuperate remotely.

[jah1986]

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Luckily Clark has the sketchiest work history. They can always claim that he was off on one of his jaunts walking the earth being a commercial fisherman, bartender, or random hand on a completely illegitimate arctic expedition. Or heck, they can say he went off to recuperate some place remote. The other thing is that with disasters, it takes years to sort out records about the dead and injured. With the massive scale of the destruction, I think it could be argued that Clark could have slipped out of Metropolis and recuperate remotely.

I suppose that could work except for the fact that Clark's body was seen in a coffin in Martha's house at the end of BvS. It wasn't a matter of thinking he died, they knew he died and they buried him.  

[HunterHunted]

18 minutes ago, jah1986 said:

I suppose that could work except for the fact that Clark's body was seen in a coffin in Martha's house at the end of BvS. It wasn't a matter of thinking he died, they knew he died and they buried him.  

Man, I have so little memory of this film, which is funny because I loathe Suicide Squad, but that film is tattooed on my brain. But now that you mention it, I do remember cracking a joke about Clark's coffin being in Martha's house. I wondered if she bought the coffin from Costco. Or if the Kents were Crypto-Jews and Martha was having people watch Clark's body until the burial.

[Lyanna19]

Some thoughts, mine....

Henry Cavill, (swoon) I never thought I'd admit this but he is the best Superman ever. I always thought WB would regret not taking him for Batman, (I think he would have made an awesome Bruce Wayne) but as Batman? Maybe not so much. As someone above said, Superman is wholesome, and pure and sweet, and Henry just nails this. Sigh, so sweet...

Ben Affleck, as Bruce Wayne, not so bad, but as Batman? No! Just no! Batman is broody, doesn't talk much, is full of pain and anguish and Affleck just doesn't do it for me. Also I wonder if the writers, producers actually ever read the comics, as Batman, (comics) no one hardly ever uses the name Bruce when addressing Batman, in fact I wonder if there aren't some of the heroes who don't even know who Batman is.

The Flash and WW moment, I thought was funny, there was nothing overtly sexist, (IMO) I actually thought it was sweet, Barry is this bumbling inexperienced young man, (boy really) and he gets to have his face squashed in the hottest female chest? Like I said I thought it was sweet, and it wasn't over played. Awkward, yes but sweet. ( Yes I know I used sweet three times! ?)

Diana and Bruce? No no no Bruce belongs to Selina, end of story.

Diana and Arthur? No no no Arthur has Mera, not sure why they didn't touch on it...(Arthur and Meras relationship, unless I missed it) 

In summary, this movie was blah, Bruce Wayne/Batman needs a complete over haul, (I like Affleck as an actor, but as Batman no, just no) oh and btw he did look like he was just popping out of his face mask, (like the real Bruce Wayne/Batman wouldn't take care of his body and let it just go to fat.) 

Gal Gabot is awesome, I only noticed one butt shot that had me thinking, ok now that was unnecessary, but nothing that made me groan. 

I can't get away from how lame Bruce Wayne/Batman is shown in these movies, he's always been my hero, and these films make me cringe

But Henry as Superman? You rock it, that million watt smile, it was worth it alone, (watching a bad film) he is just beautiful! Sigh...

(Guess having Henry Cavill playing my favorite DC character wasn't meant to be, eg Bruce Wayne)

[HunterHunted]

An entertainment reporter is alleging that Zack Snyder was actually fired from Justice League.

http://collider.com/zack-snyder-fired-from-justice-league/amp/

I guess it might be true, but it feels like a bit of a pile on.

[starri]

I believe it.  It's awful that his daughter's suicide was how they chose to dodge more scrutiny, but the removal of any mention of the film from his social media seemed to point toward that.  He was still, per DGA rules, the director of the film.  I wonder if perhaps that's why they didn't have Whedon do even more extensive reshoots, because after a certain amount of footage in the finished film, it would have required Whedon receiving credit instead.

[Bruinsfan]

It makes me feel somewhat better about the direction of the DCEU if the bigwigs actually recognized that Snyder was the cause of many of the problems they've had so far and took proactive steps to boot him rather than just coming to a mutual agreement to part ways once his family tragedy took precedence.