S06.E07: Season 6, Episode 7

[Macbeth]

Isis died and no new dog came because Lady Carnarvon's dogs were not getting along with the production dogs. Now that the show is ending it is easy to introduce a new one. Notice that the puppy was introduced at the Ealing studio, not at Highclere.

 

That means we probably won't see the puppy again. Which is probably true anyway as while Lord Grantham has no problem with an untrained puppy on the antique rugs - I am sure the Earl of Highclere would really mind.

 

No offense to that adorable puppy (because there is no such thing as a homely puppy) but they must have gotten it from the local pound.  If it was supposed to be a purebred Lab it had one ugly head. 

 

   With all due respect - whether it is purebred dogs or purebred toffs- inbreeding is terrible on  genetic health.  Mutts live healthier lives.  As for toffs- Robert wondering why his Mama didn't deliver her own letter - well he has shown that inbreeding has not been kind to his intelligence.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Macbeth

[crowceilidh]

 

The little trick played on Mr Carson was good for laughs, but I wish they had had an honest talk instead.

 

There is so much ridiculous anachronism in this series already.  An honest talk seems fairly unlikely in the time period (in fact, I was dreading the possibility) AS IS JF's solution of forcing Carson into doing the cooking.  I've lived with my father who doesn't cook and trust me, he'd be eating crackers and peanut butter or some such if Mum couldn't cook.  When she leaves heating up meat pies for Dad, it requires a serious cooking guide.  And Dad is no Carson with delusions of grandeur, he just doesn't cook and doesn't want to.

[pbutler111]

Good observation. And it puts me in my mind that the real-life generations of owners of Highclere Castle (not just the house but the 5000 acres that surround it) must have been very like Robert--or else how could we see this marvelous location and all its marvelous vistas week after week? 

 

In fact (using my imagination), I can see that Highclere Castle was what put Julian Fellowes in mind to create this whole show. He may have looked at it and had his thoughts go something like this: "Hmmm. Practically all the ruling-class estates of England got broken up, subdivided into cheap housing, etc.--but not this one, not Highclere Castle. I wonder how that came to be?"

 

I would think that watching Upstairs, Downstairs put Fellowes in mind to create this whole show.  I'm constantly surprised at how seldom I see comparisons made between the two shows, when the parallels are so obvious they practically scream for attention.  The historical timing is the same, most of the characters have direct parallels, most of the same plot devices have been hit (save for the son of the house knocking up a servant girl, as DA only has daughters, and a servant suicide, which UD had and DA has not -- yet).  Anyone who watched Upstairs, Downstairs can't help but get a sense of deja vu while watching Downton Abbey.  

Ah!  Here's a good comparison:  https://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/television/2014/01/02/for-upstairs-downstairs-fans-downton-brings-case-deja/ZWpPgRTYl1EGYUEeS7qrHN/story.html

[Milburn Stone]

Did Upstairs Downstairs have the same running theme concerning the intact preservation of the estate against all odds in a changing economy? Did Gosford Park? That's the theme I'm talking about, the one I imagine coming to JF when he looked at Highclere Castle.

[Macbeth]

Now that I think of it - given that Spratt told his lordship that her ladyship chose the dog with "particular" care - maybe Mama picked a mjutt as a comment on Cora's breeding.

 

God knows that the family line was saved by Robert marrying Cora and  not a fifth cousin once removed.

[Artymouse]

I thought a big part of the impetus for DA, at least thematically, was Fellowes' wife was in a similar situation as Mary -- couldn't inherit because of her gender, and the estate was entailed, etc.

 

Back on topic, was it  just me, or did Mrs. Patmore's breakfasts she served to the guests look ... not great, or at least not up to her usual standards? I really liked what she said to Daisy about love not being finite. Mrs. Patmore is one the characters I'll miss the most, and the one who gave us the epic line reading of "Do I look like a frolicker?"

 

With two more episodes, I'm predicting at least three weddings: Mary and Henry, Edith and Bertie, and Mrs. Patmore and Mr. Mason. If JF really wanted to have a happy-ending-palooza, he could also throw in weddings for Daisy and Andrew, Baxter and Molesley, and Tom and the editor (Laura?), and the birth of healthy twins for the Bateses. 

[kpw801]

 

 

Back on topic, was it  just me, or did Mrs. Patmore's breakfasts she served to the guests look ... not great, or at least not up to her usual standards? 

 

OMG I thought the same thing.  It looked plastic!  My plus-1 who never likes period drama but was forced to watch a re-broadcast at 5:00 Monday morning said, "What is that expletive deleted!  I said, English breakfasts are a little different.  Yeah.  It looked like a hot mess!

 

 

[crowceilidh]

I expect the black pudding is the cause of your visual distaste at Mrs. Patmore's full English - I don't think anybody would call a Full English pretty.

[helenamonster]

Isis died and no new dog came because Lady Carnarvon's dogs were not getting along with the production dogs. Now that the show is ending it is easy to introduce a new one. Notice that the puppy was introduced at the Ealing studio, not at Highclere.

 

Actually, it was only the first dog, Pharaoh, that the Carnarvon dogs didn't get along with because it was a male and they're territorial with each other or whatever. So after S1 Pharaoh was switched out for Isis, a female; they were going to pretend that it was the dog but Hugh Bonneville was like, uh, people are going to notice that something is, uh, missing if we call this female dog a "he." So I wouldn't be surprised to see Tiaa (thanks to whoever corrected me, I know nothing of Egyptian history!) in upstairs scenes, at least outside if she's not potty trained yet.

 

I guess the thing that keeps me hopeful that Downton will remain standing is because Highclere is still standing. Sure, its income is supplemented by being used for films and TV shows and by tours, but it's still there and still a home to modern-day nobility. Husband or no husband, I like to imagine Mary, with Tom's help, carrying the estate through the Great Depression, WWII, and everything that comes after it, improving on the mismanagement of her ancestors who didn't anticipate an industrial society.

[Maisonette]

it probably *was* a hot mess.  A "full English" breakfast, which Mrs. Patmore's guests would expect, would consist of fried eggs, fried tomatoes, fried mushrooms, fried potatoes, fried sausage, fried  bacon, fried bread, beans and possibly peas.  The beans and peas are allowed to remain unfried, but otherwise I think they even fry their grease.  This is the breakfast I was introduced to in 1971 and in many places it hasn't changed.  It's heart-stopping - in many ways.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Maisonette

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

I haven't bought into Henry Talbot for a second since he's appeared I resent that their relationship is being rushed along for what appears to be a tidy ending. He also looks waxy, wears too much eyeliner and has no chin. He's got nothing. 

 

Loved the puppy scene. Perfect move by Violet. 

 

Good for Edith. Bertie is perfect for her. 

 

The car racing was a WASTE of one of DA's final episodes. Hated it.

[Artymouse]

I expect the black pudding is the cause of your visual distaste at Mrs. Patmore's full English - I don't think anybody would call a Full English pretty.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure what I was seeing. I don't remember black pudding from when I was in England several years ago, but I probably ate only pastries or toast for breakfast in those days.

[Constantinople]

God knows that the family line was saved by Robert marrying Cora and  not a fifth cousin once removed.

 

Are you saying that George, who is his own 5th cousin, is special?

[meep.meep]

Magical Irishman.

 

Excuse me but "Tom is one suntan away from being a Magical Negro" 

 

If they stick Mary with him, I'll take out a contract on JF.

 

Mr. Carson needed to be taught a lesson, but cooking on those wood burning stoves must have been a nightmare.  Why did they have so many courses?   I'm having a nervous breakdown because my "science oven" is on the fritz.

[proserpina65]

it probably *was* a hot mess.  A "full English" breakfast, which Mrs. Patmore's guests would expect, would consist of fried eggs, fried tomatoes, fried mushrooms, fried potatoes, fried sausage, fried  bacon, fried bread, beans and possibly peas.  The beans and peas are allowed to remain unfried, but otherwise I think they even fry their grease.  This is the breakfast I was introduced to in 1971 and in many places it hasn't changed.  It's heart-stopping - in many ways.

Heart-stopping and delicious.  (Except for the mushrooms, because I don't like them.)

Excuse me but "Tom is one suntan away from being a Magical Negro" 

 

If they stick Mary with him, I'll take out a contract on JF.

 

Mr. Carson needed to be taught a lesson, but cooking on those wood burning stoves must have been a nightmare.  Why did they have so many courses?   I'm having a nervous breakdown because my "science oven" is on the fritz.

And you know Mr. Carson would've expected to have all the course the Crawleys had - I hope he had to cook every single one.

[meep.meep]

 

 

No offense to that adorable puppy (because there is no such thing as a homely puppy) but they must have gotten it from the local pound.  If it was supposed to be a purebred Lab it had one ugly head.  Not that Robert would care.

 

I had the same reaction.  Its legs were too long also.  And the color was off.   But still, Puppy!

[Artymouse]

 I'm having a nervous breakdown because my "science oven" is on the fritz.

 

Can you imagine if they'd had "science ovens" (thanks Jennifer Lawrence!) in those days? If Mrs. Patmore freaked out about an electric mixer, she would have blown a gasket if someone brought in a microwave.

[RedHawk]

Can you imagine if they'd had "science ovens" (thanks Jennifer Lawrence!) in those days? If Mrs. Patmore freaked out about an electric mixer, she would have blown a gasket if someone brought in a microwave.

Ah, but she installed a telephone in her B&B! She's not such a Luddite after all.

[Mrsjumbo]

I thought a big part of the impetus for DA, at least thematically, was Fellowes' wife was in a similar situation as Mary -- couldn't inherit because of her gender, and the estate was entailed, etc.

Back on topic, was it just me, or did Mrs. Patmore's breakfasts she served to the guests look ... not great, or at least not up to her usual standards? I really liked what she said to Daisy about love not being finite. Mrs. Patmore is one the characters I'll miss the most, and the one who gave us the epic line reading of "Do I look like a frolicker?"

With two more episodes, I'm predicting at least three weddings: Mary and Henry, Edith and Bertie, and Mrs. Patmore and Mr. Mason. If JF really wanted to have a happy-ending-palooza, he could also throw in weddings for Daisy and Andrew, Baxter and Molesley, and Tom and the editor (Laura?), and the birth of healthy twins for the Bateses.

I really doubt twins since Anna is not even showing yet! How far along is she supposed to be?

[Artymouse]

I'm not sure how far along Anna is; I thought the doctor said she had to make it through first trimester before he could do the procedure, but he may have expedited it when she thought she was having a miscarriage. But then timelines aren't this show's strong suit, so she could be anywhere between 3 and 8 months, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised.

[pbutler111]

Did Upstairs Downstairs have the same running theme concerning the intact preservation of the estate against all odds in a changing economy? Did Gosford Park? That's the theme I'm talking about, the one I imagine coming to JF when he looked at Highclere Castle.

 

They did, but in different ways.  Gosford Park is the closest parallel, because that was also a large country house and, with the death of the patriarch, it was coming to an end, as his widow didn't feel compelled to keep the place up anymore.  With Upstairs, Downstairs, they lived in London, not in a country house, but it was definitely the same theme of changing times and the servant/master role shifting and the middle class rising.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I was so looking forward to Mrs. Hughes, upon hearing the soup was not cooked to Carson's mother's standards, dumping a tureen full of it right into his pompous lap followed by a full English flouncing out the door. The bogus injured hand is a poor substitute.

[AndySmith]

That's the theme I'm talking about, the one I imagine coming to JF when he looked at Highclere Castle.

I thought a big part of the impetus for DA, at least thematically, was Fellowes' wife was in a similar situation as Mary -- couldn't inherit because of her gender, and the estate was entailed, etc.

 

Here is a JF article (http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_22625329/julian-fellowes-abbey-owes-much-wharton) about where some of his influences for the show came from. A show he was tasked to develop by Gareth Neame of Carnival Films. So the show itself wasn't JF's original idea, but he could have added the whole "society is changing angle". Or not.

 

Of course, take that article with a grain of salt, given some of what he says ("I like to think I am kind to my characters").

Edited February 16, 2016 by AndySmith

[blackwing]

I'm not sure if Julian Fellowes is trying to get me to feel sorry for Thomas or not.  I see it is working for many viewers, but for me, there will never be redemption for Thomas.  He's done too many evil and conniving things in the past for me to ever feel sorry for him.  The list is too long to recount, but I have never been able to get over the fact that he tried to avoid serving his country in the war.  He signs up to be a medical something, thinking he'd be safe, then is horrified when he is sent to the front lines, then purposely gets his hand shot so he can go home, then continues to act like he was brave and valiant in the war.  I was disgusted when that old man in the dying house praised him a few episodes ago for serving his country.  Meanwhile, Matthew, the heir to an Earldom, served and risked his life, and William died.

 

Thomas is repulsive and disgusting and as far as I am concerned, he could be humiliated 100 times and it's not enough for me.  If any character on this show deserves an unhappy ending, it is this one.  I'm not holding out hope that he won't get his happy ending, because I think everyone will, but I firmly believe in karma, and Karma owes Thomas a gigantic kick in the ass.

 

Meanwhile, in just one brief line when Andy admitted with embarrassment that he couldn't read and kept going on about how stupid he was, I felt so bad for him.  When you don't treat people poorly, you tend to be more likeable.

 

While I was amused at the "OMG cooking and washing and cleaning and doing 'wimmen's work' is sooooo hard" storyline for Carson and Mrs. Hughes, I have to say that I found it a bit juvenile for people in their late 50s or 60s.  At a time when everyone behaved so properly, how about, you know, TALKING to him?  Mrs. Patmore could have sat in the room with Mrs. Hughes and they could have explained to Carson how it's not as easy as it seems.  Then again, whether they played their trick on him or talked to him, I have a feeling that it wouldn't have done any good.  People don't change.  And I don't think that people in their late 60s especially will change.  Of course we won't see it, but no doubt that in a week, Carson would be right back to complaining about everything.  It's what he does.

 

I still can't figure out what is going on with Mary/Talbot.  The easy answer seems to be that she will end up with him, and Tom ends up with female editor (why else is she being featured so prominently so close to the end), but I am not so sure anymore.  Maybe Mary and Tom end up together, and Talbot joins Gillingham, Evelyn Napier and Charles Blake in a weekly meeting of the Jilted by Lady Mary club.

 

I thought it was a bit naff of Violet to suggest that Isobel needed to "save" Dickie from the awful daughter-in-law by marrying him. That girl was a nasty piece of work, but what a mess that would be! Marrying a man and knowing your DIL was wishing your spouse, her FIL, dead and out of the great house so it could be "hers" -- and of course she would want to shove his widow out of the way the minute the body was underground. More shades of Jane Austen! 

 

Isobel is happy enough as she is, and if she really wants male companionship then Dr. Clarkson would probably be quite happy to do the job.

I agree that the girl is nasty but I see nothing wrong with Violet suggesting to Isobel that she marry Lord Merton and "save" him.  Isobel does care for him, she just can't stand his son.  She was worried about interfering with his relationship with his son, and now that she is fully aware that it can't get any worse because the son is marrying that girl, then who cares what the son thinks?  If there is any justice, Isobel marries Lord Merton.  He goes on to live for 10 or 20 more years, and when he finally dies, Isobel decides that she is quite comfortable in the big house and remains in the master bedroom and torments the girl every day.

 

I just read, that there was a Laura/Tom scene after the dinner at Lady Rosamunds. This one wasn't in the UK version. Can someone tell me what they said?

Is Laura the female editor, or do you mean Laura Carmichael?  I don't recall a scene of Tom with either after the dinner.  After the editor said she had to be going, Tom said he would walk her out.  We didn't see him walking her out or talking to her.  Then we see him returning and overhearing Mary dumping Talbot on the phone.

 

Does Lord Merton have a title, like the 9th Earl of Carthage?   If he does and marries Isobel, would she become the Dowager Countess upon his death?  Or is Lord Merton just a landed Lord?

I'm pretty sure he's a Baron of something.  Which ranks lower than an Earl.  I remember when Isobel was going to marry him that Violet in the beginning seemed a bit miffed that Isobel would obtain a current title (Baroness of something) and join the aristocracy.

[txhorns79]

I'm pretty sure he's a Baron of something.  Which ranks lower than an Earl.  I remember when Isobel was going to marry him that Violet in the beginning seemed a bit miffed that Isobel would obtain a current title (Baroness of something) and join the aristocracy.

 

I was thinking he was higher ranked than an Earl, and Violet was upset that Isobel could end up outranking her.  However, you may be right.  I don't remember exactly what it was.  

 

 

Did Upstairs Downstairs have the same running theme concerning the intact preservation of the estate against all odds in a changing economy?

 

UD did a variation of that storyline, twice.  In one storyline, a character died leaving the ownership of the London home in jeopardy.  In another, the family is put at risk for losing the house because money is lost in the stock market crash of '29. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by txhorns79

[Roseanna]

The list is too long to recount, but I have never been able to get over the fact that he tried to avoid serving his country in the war.  He signs up to be a medical something, thinking he'd be safe, then is horrified when he is sent to the front lines, then purposely gets his hand shot so he can go home, then continues to act like he was brave and valiant in the war.  I was disgusted when that old man in the dying house praised him a few episodes ago for serving his country.  Meanwhile, Matthew, the heir to an Earldom, served and risked his life, and William died.

WW1 was a quite senseless war where millions of men died in vain and it resulted WW2., so I can't see anything wrong in it that Thomas didn't want to die for stupid polititicians and incompetent officers. He was in fact quite brave when he let his hand be delierately wounded.

[JudyObscure]

What sort of Talbot is he?

Shrewsbury. But he's nowhere near the earldom. About 40 strong men would have to drop dead.

Constantinople gave me a yearning desire for a "Kind Hearts and Coronets," style spin off where Henry comically dispenses with one of the 40 each episode.  Thomas could be his combination butler and partner in crime.
.

[Andorra]

 

Is Laura the female editor, or do you mean Laura Carmichael?  I don't recall a scene of Tom with either after the dinner.  After the editor said she had to be going, Tom said he would walk her out.  We didn't see him walking her out or talking to her.  Then we see him returning and overhearing Mary dumping Talbot on the phone.

 

Oh, this was it. Those line were missing in the UK version. 

[fastiller]

Bertie is the third cousin of Lord Hexham, the owner of Brancaster Castle, Lord Hexham rented the grouse shooting to the Sinderbys because he seldom spent his time there, and in Bertie´s words he prefers be painting in Tangiers (a famous place for rich and aristocratratic gays and play boys). Remember that Matthew was the 4° cousin or something like that, also after the ww1 many aristocratic families lost their heirs and many distant cousin inherited. But to this moment we dont know if there is another male betwen Bertie and his cousin.   

 

&

I also feel they're setting Thomas up for suicide.

 

Let's see if they can pair up Lord Hexham and Thomas before series end.

 

What struck me was how relaxed they were.  Until now we've seen everyone sitting bolt upright in their chairs.  It really stood out because they were leaning back and Edith had her feet on the divan (gasp!).  Nanny would be horrified.

 

&

 It all adds up to subtle sexiness.

 

I think they... ... ... did it.

Edited February 17, 2016 by fastiller

[blackwing]

WW1 was a quite senseless war where millions of men died in vain and it resulted WW2., so I can't see anything wrong in it that Thomas didn't want to die for stupid polititicians and incompetent officers. He was in fact quite brave when he let his hand be delierately wounded.

I agree that it is always tragic when young men die in wars in which they don't believe... but sorry, I don't see anything "brave" in him letting his hand get shot.  From what I remember of that scene, you could practically smell the shit in his pants when he was shaking and trembling and timidly raising his hand up to get hit.  There was nothing brave about it.

[RedHawk]

I'm not sure if Julian Fellowes is trying to get me to feel sorry for Thomas or not.  I see it is working for many viewers, but for me, there will never be redemption for Thomas.  He's done too many evil and conniving things in the past for me to ever feel sorry for him.  The list is too long to recount, but I have never been able to get over the fact that he tried to avoid serving his country in the war.  He signs up to be a medical something, thinking he'd be safe, then is horrified when he is sent to the front lines, then purposely gets his hand shot so he can go home, then continues to act like he was brave and valiant in the war.  I was disgusted when that old man in the dying house praised him a few episodes ago for serving his country.  Meanwhile, Matthew, the heir to an Earldom, served and risked his life, and William died.

 

When the old aristo asked if Thomas had been in the war and Thomas showed him the wounded hand, he then seemed embarrassed when the old man praised him. At least that's what I saw. 

[millennium]

 

Back on topic, was it  just me, or did Mrs. Patmore's breakfasts she served to the guests look ... not great, or at least not up to her usual standards? I

 

I suspect the mysterious person taking notes outside Mrs. Patmore's B&B was an agent of the humane society, investigating an unusually high incidence of vanished cats in the area.

[RedHawk]

Now that the Dowager Countess and Denker are roaming the Mediterranean, will Spratt bring his nephew the escaped convict in for tea?

[skyways]

He was in fact quite brave when he let his hand be delierately wounded.

 

Eh what??? Then Patmore's nephew should have got a medal instead of being shot. Thomas wants to wear the uniform without actually fighting for his country. He should have just let himself be treated like the nephew. Bravery my foot!

[jschoolgirl]

The Christmas special is two hours. So we have three hours total to wrap it all up.

[ShadowFacts]

Eh what??? Then Patmore's nephew should have got a medal instead of being shot. Thomas wants to wear the uniform without actually fighting for his country. He should have just let himself be treated like the nephew. Bravery my foot!

 

Wasn't the resolution to Mrs. Patmore's nephew that Robert approved his name being included in a memorial?  Even if that was not realistic or easy to swallow, his execution was no more palatable.  Bringing it back to Thomas, he was luckier than William certainly, and I don't have trouble believing that guilt plays a part in his self-loathing.

[J-Man]

 

The Christmas special is two hours. So we have three hours total to wrap it all up.

Next Sunday's episode is being listed as 1:20.

[TheGreenKnight]

I agree that it is always tragic when young men die in wars in which they don't believe... but sorry, I don't see anything "brave" in him letting his hand get shot.  From what I remember of that scene, you could practically smell the shit in his pants when he was shaking and trembling and timidly raising his hand up to get hit.  There was nothing brave about it.

I think there would have been plenty of men who weren't trying to get out of the war who would've been shaking and trembling. Being afraid doesn't make you a coward.

[CleoCaesar]

Thomas is repulsive and disgusting and as far as I am concerned, he could be humiliated 100 times and it's not enough for me.  If any character on this show deserves an unhappy ending, it is this one.  I'm not holding out hope that he won't get his happy ending, because I think everyone will, but I firmly believe in karma, and Karma owes Thomas a gigantic kick in the ass.

 

Hear, hear. Thomas being weepy and sad the past few episodes leaves me cold. The guy is toxic and has been for over 5 seasons. Literally the only reason some find it in them to sympathize is that he's gay. But at his core he is an asshole who created all his problems by being a vile person. Sexuality be damned, Thomas deserves a decidedly unhappy end. I'm unspoiled, so I am interested in seeing how this shakes out.

[shipperx]

it probably *was* a hot mess. A "full English" breakfast, which Mrs. Patmore's guests would expect, would consist of fried eggs, fried tomatoes, fried mushrooms, fried potatoes, fried sausage, fried bacon, fried bread, beans and possibly peas. The beans and peas are allowed to remain unfried, but otherwise I think they even fry their grease. This is the breakfast I was introduced to in 1971 and in many places it hasn't changed. It's heart-stopping - in many ways.

I did a double-take when served beans and sausage for breakfast at a B&B in Stratford Upon Avon in the late '80s.

[Blackie]

Did Lady Edith really wear the same dress to dinner 2 nights in a row?

[blackwing]

I think there would have been plenty of men who weren't trying to get out of the war who would've been shaking and trembling. Being afraid doesn't make you a coward.

I agree with you there. But my point was that I took issue with the characterisation of Thomas as being "brave" when he stuck his hand up to get shot so he could leave the war. As if he were to be commended for being so noble and brave to offer his hand up and sacrificing himself to the Germans.

[CeeBeeGee]

 

I don't particularly want Thomas to kill himself, but if he does, I had something a little different in mind

 

Setting: George's birthday party, held outside on the estate grounds

Thomas (standing on the top of the Abbey roof): George! George! George, look at me! I'm over here! George, I love you.

 

George (at the party, being held by his mother and pointing to Thomas): Look. There's Barrow.

 

Thomas: Look at me, George. It's all for you! (steps off the roof, hanging himself as his swaying body smashes into a window, breaking it)

 

 

Oh my God! One of the most disturbing scenes ever. I do not like Thomas at all--I still hold a grudge from the cruel way he tripped Bates in front of everyone in in the very first episode, and I have scant sympathy for his current career existential dilemma--but I do not want him to commit suicide, much less in front of little George. As so many have suggested he should cast further afield, to London or the States. Good looking butler like him with an accent to boot would clean up in America.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure he's a Baron of something.  Which ranks lower than an Earl.  I remember when Isobel was going to marry him that Violet in the beginning seemed a bit miffed that Isobel would obtain a current title (Baroness of something) and join the aristocracy.

 

Violet might've been miffed because Violet was born the daughter of a baronet (IIRC), a lower rank than baron.

[sark1624]

Thomas action in the war must not be consider an act of bravery or cowardice, it was an act of desperation, in fact is not put your hand like that an receive a clean shoot, in the trenches there were mud, humidity, rest of bodies, rats,  and the aid post were far behind the lines; so Thomas could have been easily got his hand amputated for some infection caught there and to a man like him thats mean that he cannot work anywhere. Different to William and Matthew, Thomas was already there before them, Wlilliam only went in 1918, Matthew only in 1916 (Matthew was part of the Kitchener army, the volunteer army, and the first battle of them was the somme, and was a dissaster).

 

Clearly he had a state of "battle fatigue", only in the middle of the war the doctors in the army realized that, so, they send a lot of soldiers with those sintoms to places like Downton or another quiet place in order that they can have a proper "mental" rest. In the middle of the war they start to rotate the regiments in the front line, so Matthew and William stay max 10 days in the first trench guarding the front, next they woul send to behind the lines, after 1 week they would send them to the 2° or 3° line and so on. That was made to maintain the soldiers with a good mental health and avoid the stress of the front line, sadly it was used only in the last half of the war. 

 

And for more information, in the ww2, differents studies from the us army and british army concluded that only 15.-20% of the soldiers of regular units (conscripted ones) fought in the way that was expected, the rest would hide and avoid the battle or simply deserter. When the generals received the results were alarmed and decided to keep it in secret. Only the elites unites like the rangers or paratroopers fought in the way that was expected. The training for the ww1 was a dissaster, many generals trained the soldiers to fought in a similar way to the napoleonic wars, without having in consideration the new power of the artillery, machine guns, gas, etc; so the fact that the men showed cowardice was manly because the lack of a proper training to a modern war and weapons. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by sark1624

[helenamonster]

WW1 was a quite senseless war where millions of men died in vain and it resulted WW2., so I can't see anything wrong in it that Thomas didn't want to die for stupid polititicians and incompetent officers. He was in fact quite brave when he let his hand be delierately wounded.

 

I have to agree with other posters that there was absolutely nothing brave about Thomas deliberately wounding himself so that he could get out of the war. I have a lot of feelings about war and the ways soldiers are treated both on and off the front lines that are irrelevant here, but bravery, to me, implies some kind of immense sacrifice for the good of another. Like William, who literally gave his life to save Matthew's. Thomas's act was entirely self-serving. No, it doesn't bother me if a young man doesn't want to serve king and country but I refuse to reward him for what he did.

 

Wasn't the resolution to Mrs. Patmore's nephew that Robert approved his name being included in a memorial?  Even if that was not realistic or easy to swallow, his execution was no more palatable.  Bringing it back to Thomas, he was luckier than William certainly, and I don't have trouble believing that guilt plays a part in his self-loathing.

 

Robert didn't include Archie on the memorial, but did set aside a special plaque for him so that he wouldn't be excluded.

 

Oh my God! One of the most disturbing scenes ever. I do not like Thomas at all--I still hold a grudge from the cruel way he tripped Bates in front of everyone in in the very first episode, and I have scant sympathy for his current career existential dilemma--but I do not want him to commit suicide, much less in front of little George. As so many have suggested he should cast further afield, to London or the States. Good looking butler like him with an accent to boot would clean up in America.

 

One thing we actually can't hold against Thomas--that was O'Brien.

[CeeBeeGee]

I have to agree with other posters that there was absolutely nothing brave about Thomas deliberately wounding himself so that he could get out of the war. I have a lot of feelings about war and the ways soldiers are treated both on and off the front lines that are irrelevant here, but bravery, to me, implies some kind of immense sacrifice for the good of another. Like William, who literally gave his life to save Matthew's. Thomas's act was entirely self-serving. No, it doesn't bother me if a young man doesn't want to serve king and country but I refuse to reward him for what he did.

 

 

Robert didn't include Archie on the memorial, but did set aside a special plaque for him so that he wouldn't be excluded.

 

 

One thing we actually can't hold against Thomas--that was O'Brien.

 

Shit, you're right. But he was in on it, egging her on. And he's done so much else--most recently trying to torpedo Gwendolyn who was a guest at that point. No wonder Robert wants to ditch him. 

[jschoolgirl]

Next Sunday's episode is being listed as 1:20.

Thanks for the info. That is interesting given that it's a regular episode.

[Roseanna]

I have to agree with other posters that there was absolutely nothing brave about Thomas deliberately wounding himself so that he could get out of the war. I have a lot of feelings about war and the ways soldiers are treated both on and off the front lines that are irrelevant here, but bravery, to me, implies some kind of immense sacrifice for the good of another. Like William, who literally gave his life to save Matthew's. Thomas's act was entirely self-serving. No, it doesn't bother me if a young man doesn't want to serve king and country but I refuse to reward him for what he did.

 

I don't think courage in itself includes morality. It can used for good or bad. A gangster can be brave. Nazis made sacrifices.

[kristabell]

PUPPY!!!! She was so cute chewing on her little basket. Watching that scene is the first time I smiled at something on DA in a long time. And Robert / HB's reaction was priceless - that's the face of a very happy dog lover!

Count me among the masses who really could do without Henry and Mary. Personally, I would prefer Mary single. I think her character works best in family and business scenes, but it falls absolutely flat for me in romantic ones. ~In lurve~ Mary just isn't true to the character imo. Why does she need to be married to get her HEA? And, at this point, there is no relationship that makes sense for her. If JF wants Henry to be her future husband, then leave the show off with that - with her realizing she's ready for a new relationship. That would be significantly more believable than a marriage at this point. The other problem is the character of Henry himself. He should have been introduced last season, or one of the eligible bachelors from last season should be on screen now, if matching up Mary is a necessity. I think both actors did well with what they were given, and the scenes, if taken alone - especially the telephone breakup - were really quite well done. The problem was, I just didn't care. The acting was good and I know I was supposed to care, but I didn't. The audience doesn't have enough history with this character or their relationship, and the attempted manipulation isn't working for me.

I also loved Edith and Bertie's sofa scene. I don't particularly care for either the actors or the characters, but that scene was absolutely beautifully shot. And I believed more about Bertie and Edith's relationship just from the visuals in that scene than I did from all the melodrama surrounding Henry and Mary.

Oh, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas. I used to really like you. Why can't you just be evil again? Thomas seasons 1-4 (maybe 1-3) was easily my favorite character. He was fun to watch, he was interesting, and Evil Butler is the best! But he was also a believable villain; he wasn't over the top. There was significant complexity there, and I actually rooted for early-seasons Thomas to get his ish together and succeed.

Now, I just want him to drown in his bathtub of sorrows and leave me alone. Self-loathing, self-pitying characters are my least favorite characters. I can find something to root for in almost anyone who is actually DOING something. But I imagine, after a long day of complaining about how people he treated like shit for a decade aren't suddenly his BFFs, Thomas retires to his room to play his orchestra of tiny violins overseen by a rain cloud. I just don't care. If he would DO something, anything, maybe I could feel something for his character again. But this constant drumbeat of pathetic isn't sad, it's annoying.  Moseley was sort of a sad sack mope the first few seasons, but I rooted for him because he was trying to do something, to better his lot, to get a job, whatever. Just shit or get off the pot, Thomas; I can't take it anymore.

Speaking of Moseley, he has come so far and I think his relationship with Baxter is probably my favorite "romantic" one on the show. This Coyle business, however...Why would I care about Baxter's connection to someone we've never seen regarding an incident/relationship that took place off-screen before the character was introduced?

And Violet was back in fine form this week! I hope we see her again before the end of the series.

I would watch the hell out of a Violet/Puppy/Mrs. Hughes/Mrs. Patmore spin-off.

[WatchrTina]

 

Did Lady Edith really wear the same dress to dinner 2 nights in a row?

If she did that would be a nice nod to realism since I think dinner the first night was family-only (that is until race-car-driver-whose-name-I-cannot-be-bothered-to-remember turns up.)  So her only taking one evening dress for two nights in London including one dinner where she only expected to be seen by immediate family, seem eminently sensible.  

 

I recently re-watched season's 1 - 3 and one thing I particularly noticed from season 1 was that you did see the same clothes on the upstairs cast many times.  In fact, it being Sybil's turn to get a new dress was a plot point of one episode.  But Season 6 Mary and Edith seem to have an unending supply of glamorous new clothes. If that gorgeous dress Mary wore in the last episode is "medium smart" I can't wait to see what pull-out-all-the-stops smart looks like.  And while Mary looked fabulous at the race, let's not even being to discuss the impracticality of wearing a white/light beige coat to a car race.

 

I wonder if Cora's mother DID increase Cora's dress allowance after her visit (she said that was the most she could do when they were trying to get her to "save" Downton.)  That would help explain their bigger wardrobes.  And of course they no longer have to buy dresses for Sybil (sniffle).  But really I think the answer is that the show-runners know how much we love the clothes so they gave the costume department a bigger budget and let them go wild with the costume porn.

 

You know I recently re-watched Gosford Park and one of the guests at the house-party that is the setting for that movie receives some criticism for appearing in the same dress at two dinners in a row but that was during a house-party.  Wearing the same dress down to dinner with your family two days in a row surely wouldn't be an unusual decision.

Edited February 17, 2016 by WatchrTina